Why the Clintons are bad for the Democratic Party/America

Back in 2004 I had a discussion with my Mom about my view of the Republican Party and the voters who elected them.  I told her I believed that the people who vote Republican are either stupid or evil.  Granted that's a quite a generalization...I have many dear friends who are Republicans so I suppose I should add a third category.

Why do I even mention this, I know, I know...rhetorical.  Because I now firmly bellieve that anyone who supports Hillary Clinton's campaign of lies, incompetance, sleep deprivation, smears, actions verging on the border of racism and destruction is either evil or stupid.  

Frankly I'm leaning toward stupid for the majority of them.  I have a dear friend who is thoroughly convinced that if Clinton came close with the popular vote it would be enough to justify swaying the Supers at the convention.  Our last conversation was well before the Pastor Wright story let alone the Bosnia, let's be charitable and call it "embellishment," so I have no idea if he has come to his senses.

But I cannot discount evil for at least the "Big Bucks-No Whammies!" fund raisers who are trying to strong-arm Speaker Pelosi.  I cannot discount evil for smearing Clinton surrogates like Bill Shaheen, Bob Johnson or Geraldine Ferraro.  I cannot discount the jackals and snakes like Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson and Harold Ickes who swallow and spew the Clinton Kool Ade amazingly with a stright face.  I cannot discount evil for despicable "Karl Rove-in-a-Democrat-suit" James Carville for his unfair character assasination of Governor Richardson's act on conscience.  

Finally, I cannot discount evil for President and Senator Clinton themselves for putting their hereditary sense of entitlement ahead of the party and the country.  I've never been a fan of Mrs. Clinton.  I live in NYS and I did not appreciate her carpetbagging her way ito Daniel Patrick Moynihan's seat.  But I always have held a deep respect for the former president.  I saw how well the country appeared to be during his years despite a congress intent on blocking his every move.  Perhaps I overlooked his flaws because I appreciated the grit with which he came to be president.  Well now now I've squinted a little bit and that beautiful woman is now a hag.  

The Clinton's are supposed to be smart.  I heard Ed Rendell say in the beginning of Charlie Rose something along the lines that She's know more about stuff than either Bill Clinton or Al Gore.  So why can't she read the writing on the wall.  My conclusion, she's either stupid or evil.

•  Tip the balance

  Call an undecided Super

  by TravelerBill on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:14:05 PM PDT

•  She's such

  a Republican!

  by exMnLiberal on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:16:05 PM PDT

•  Another disgusting diary...

  anyone who supports Hillary Clinton's campaign of lies, incompetance, sleep deprivation, smears, actions verging on the border of racism and destruction is either evil or stupid.

  I think you have also earned that distinction and shown that it's not just reserved for Clinton or her supporters.

  by citizen53 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:17:54 PM PDT

  •  At least he allowed a choice

    and most fall into #2 or a mix of both

    by Judgment at Nuremberg on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:25:37 PM PDT

    •  Sorry...such a skewered and cynical...

      perspective.

      This is intended for Obama supporters who relish in the practice of "Clinton Rules."

      Where has all the hope evaporated to?  A diary like this, and the lack of criticism by just a handful out of 150,000 who do not speak out against the constant spew  here makes, a non-Clinton supporter, shake my head at how incredibly cynical and anti-progressive so many are here.

      Yours is the hope candidate.  You are winning.  Act like what you all claim to be.  Make a real argument against her on something called substance.  Why should anyone listen to what you say when it's about the very thing you complain that Clinton does.

      Sorry to inform you, but all this shows that you are not just the Democratic cynics here, in reality, but appearing hypocritical as well.

      I have never seen so many crass winners in my life.  And the most galling part is that you pretend to be for hope and all that get along stuff.

      Where's the beef?

      by citizen53 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:37:50 PM PDT

      •  No Win when someone is sabotaging the general

        election so that she can scream "I told you so" and start the 35 years of "experience" bull all over again in 2012.

        Winning the general election is the point - The nomination is worthless unless we beat McCain. not suck up to him like Bill Clinton did intimating that McCain and his wife are the onl;y ones that love their country and are "commander in shit" material.

        May the Clintons go to hell with Ken Starr and Rush Limbaugh.

        by Judgment at Nuremberg on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:20:35 PM PDT

        •  You won't win it without her 12 million+

          supporters.  And, if this eleciton has proven anything, its that you can't assume jack shit.

          Therefore, dont' assume they'll just roll over and vote for Obama

          by FerrisValyn on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:22:07 PM PDT

          •  I assume nothing

            Her ideological supporters, a minority, can go straight to hell - she has already damaged the party.  
            Most of the rest will come along.  You are right, I can't assume anything, the Clintons have poisioned the well good!  

            by Judgment at Nuremberg on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:25:25 PM PDT

            •  Those that could be swayed by policy

              would have moved already.  The reality is that its about personality.  And, as I said, you can't assume anything.  

              The only way for them to come over, IMHO, is if we see unity within the party - between Hillary and Obama

              by FerrisValyn on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:32:54 PM PDT

              •  Eggs-Ackley!!!

                We only reflect, and this disunity is the result of, the fact that a candidate has gone "nuclear" and thrown the "kitchen sink".

                No wonder that the followers have reacted the way they have. Thank you Bill and Hillary Clinton!

                I guess if they can't own the party, they are willing to break it!

                by Judgment at Nuremberg on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:38:56 AM PDT

    •  So, which is my mom, then? nt

      notext

      by FerrisValyn on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:20:57 PM PDT

•  Obama himself would not like this diary.

  Let's just leave it Hillary's supporters are wrong, shall we.

  Let's reserve our judgment for ideas not people.

  by Sam Wise Gingy on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:23:31 PM PDT

  •  He's a better man than me

    But it's long past the time when someone should state it bluntly.

    by Judgment at Nuremberg on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:26:51 PM PDT

    •  Obama can't change the country by himself.

      If we want to change the way the country does things then we have to begin with the way we do things. We are the ones we have been waiting for.

      by Sam Wise Gingy on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:30:22 PM PDT

    •  See my comment above...

      but who made you the judge of what an evil Democrat is?

      Someone could see this position you take as a very evil one, judging others as you do.  Do you know how that appears?  Democrats who disagree are stupid or evil.  Wow.

      Why don't you ask your candidate to talk about campaign finance reform, even if he is raising $175 million?  Haven't heard much about it from him or his supporters.

      Let's hear some proposals on race inequity beyond an occasional reference that we should understand each other.  This is a fundamental core progressive value, but it hardly ever gets raised.  It takes a controversy.  Will it stem the cries of racism, used as a sword around here?

      So spare the bluntness, please.  You come off no better, and perhaps worse.  

      by citizen53 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:47:20 PM PDT

      •  Re this and above

        I was going to add a snarky comment at this point but I see from having perused your diaries and some of your recent comments that you are an Edwards supporter who has been even handed in your comments.

        I love the fact that my candidate stands for idealism - change - HOPE!  I don't see how these ideals are sullied because I use my 1st Amendment right to issue an opinion that I am frustrated that a former president whom I once esteemed, his wife the candidate and their supporters are ACTING MORE LIKE REPUBLICANS!  I don't want Sen. Obama to respond in kind, I'd rather he win on the merits.    

        Look, I'm not going to change your opinion, nor are you going to change mine.  And it's 2:00 AM in my chair and despite the insomnia I have to go to bed where I'll stare at the ceiling sick over the way my Jr. Senator is behaving in this election.

        Let us call this a draw and we'll apparently settle it in Denver.

        by TravelerBill on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:08:00 PM PDT

        •  I have no beef with you and apprecaiate...

          that you looked to see who I was before a relex reaction.

          That said, the fact that you are an exemplary supporter does not have to do with those I referred to, the ones who are the antithesis of hope in their behavior.

          There are plenty, way too many, and if this is how they think they are better than some of us who have been fighting the fight for a very long time, then black is white and up is down.

          The cynicism of these people and lack of respect or tolerance for others is not just un-progressive, but abysmal.

          So it's not a matter of a draw, but what is right and wrong.

          by citizen53 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:01:05 AM PDT

      •  Nope, this is what happens when a candidate

        Nope, this is what happens when a primary candidate does not drop out normally when the chances go dim - and that starts screaming "Shame" at the likely nominee - This is all foreseeable and a natural result.

        I blame the Clintons and some of their backers. They have been the biggest impediment I can think of to democratic party renewal in 40 years. I believe the Clintons have no hope of winning this time - they are not totally stupid - and instead are setting up a McCain victory so that she can run again saying "I told you so" in 2012.

        The democratic party will continue it's path to demoralization and will only be, at best, the party of voting "against" republicans.  

        by Judgment at Nuremberg on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:14:45 PM PDT

        •  Whatever...

          but you sound like the very type of ideologue you rail against.

          You cannot hide from your words and hyperbole, and I object that you seem to think you can judge others with impugnity.

          by citizen53 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:03:30 AM PDT

    •  Like, Obama supporters

      who argue that Dems who support Hillary are racist, or evil, or stupid, or Republicans?

      by FerrisValyn on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:23:34 PM PDT

  •  No I cant leave it at that

    I've had it up to here with their shenanigans and If I can't vent in the middle of the night into the ether then "what the hey?"

    I tend to agree with your assessment of what Sen. Obama's opinion might likely be. He's running a wonderful idealistic campaign for President...I'm not.

    I respect your right to have an opinion as well...this diary is mine.

    by TravelerBill on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:28:47 PM PDT

•  I have a sister

  who ebellishes, what Hillary did was a flat lie, and the media let it go until Sinbad called them out on it.

  by zamrzla on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:15:15 PM PDT

  •  Lying is a habit for the Clintons

    This was noted by some democrats, not republicans, years ago... and we should've paid more attention.

    by Judgment at Nuremberg on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:27:15 PM PDT

•  Not all are evil or stupid

  I'm as frustrated as anyone about the negativity that the Clintons have injected into this primary campaign, and I do see it as being potentially disastrous to the party.

  However, not all of Clinton supporters are evil or stupid.  Many are simply hopeful, and yearning for change, albeit a different kind of change than that which we Obama supporters seek.

  Hillary's campaign does represent an incredible breakthrough for women, and she has legions of women supporting her just because they feel the time has come for gender equality. I concur with that sentiment, and if Elizabeth Edwards had been a candidate I'd likely have supported her, for she's advocated many of the same changes Obama has.

  Although I've been accused of having drunk the Kool-Aid, my endorsement of Obama arose from a very rational assessment of each of the candidates and the prospect of their leadership. As the chair of my local Democratic Party here in New Hampshire, and as a former newspaper editor, I've enjoyed the privilege of meeting and talking with each of the Democratic candidates.

  For me, Barack Obama represents the best hope for our nation's future. His fearless intellect, his integrity, and his authentic desire to listen to and consider the views of others is desperately needed if we're to achieve our progressive objectives.

  It's more than a little ironic that we have vying simultaneously for the nomination the first woman and the first African-American. It's a testament to the strength and diversity of the Democratic Party.

  But it has inevitably injected gender and race into the contest. I can't fault women for their support of Hillary, nor can I express any surprise that the majority of African-Americans are supporting Barack.

  What I find heartening is that the majority of progressives are coalescing around the candidacy of Obama. And yes, we can prevail, and we will.

  by rontun on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:52:44 PM PDT