Feingold wants us to "cool it."

Yesterday, Russ Feingold held a listening session in Wausau, WI. I think this article got overlooked amid the other big news in Wausau this week (click around the Daily Herald Web site and you'll see what I mean... but that's another topic entirely).

Feingold had a little something to say about Obama supporters. He wants us to, as he puts it, "cool it."

"I'll tell some of the (Barack) Obama supporters here today: Cool it," Feingold, D-Middleton, said Wednesday to a group of about 50 people at the University of Wisconsin Marathon County. "Take it a little easy."

...

"The more leaders say, 'Look, this (tone) isn't welcome,' ... I think people hear me say that, and I hope they'd say, well, you know, maybe he's right," he said.

I'll keep this short. Senator Feingold, I've lived in Wisconsin my whole life and I've been awfully proud to have you as my senator, but COME ON. I will not cool it.

Why should I cool it? Why me, when Hillary Clinton is the one dragging out the primary season even though she knows she can't win?

When a supporter of her campaign says Obama is only doing well because he's black?

When she implies McCain would be a better commander-in-chief?

When her supporters try to threaten Nancy Pelosi with their pocketbooks?

When her campaign is parroting the right-wing "latte-drinking liberals" line to write off her losses in smaller states?

When she's the one blurring the truth about her role in NAFTA?

Sorry, but that's not acceptable to me. I will not cool it.

Now, let me say that I don't agree with most of the vitriol directed Clinton's way. She'd make a good president, and I don't think she's evil incarnate. However, that doesn't matter because she won't be the nominee (unless the superdelegates ignore the will of the people). I also don't think the party is being destroyed by this primary season, although I would like to see things wrapped up shortly after the last primary rather than in August.

But scolding Obama supporters is pointless. If Feingold and other prominent Democrats truly think the party is being hurt by this, they should encourage Clinton to drop out (again, after the last primary) so we can move forward.

Senator Feingold, I'm sure there were people who wanted you to cool it when you were the only senator to vote against the Patriot Act. Or when you passed campaign finance reform. Or (insert other great legislative action of yours here). But you didn't cool it.

And neither should we.

•  sorry this isn't longer

  I'm sure you all can come up with more reasons not to "cool it." :) I'm a bit under the weather today, so I don't have the energy to find more good linkage and such. But I wanted to get this up here because I didn't see it diaried (if I'm wrong, let me know).

  by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:07:17 PM PDT

  •  Obama has almost won

    He just has to stay solid for another couple of months, and the nomination is his. Obama is a frontrunner. He and his supporters should act like it.

    by david mizner on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:12:01 PM PDT

    •  You cant keep the heat on if you cool it. n/t

      by Nailbanger on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:15:07 PM PDT

      •  except you need to convert us

        so stop flinging poo. It is splitting the party.

        It makes you look like sore winners. Time to be gracious. I absolutely agree with Feingold.

        by dotcommodity on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:19:16 PM PDT

        •  I absolutely agree with Feingold.

          I'm sure you do. You what to let Hillary steal and cheat the nomination out from under Obama (with Fox News' and Rush Limbaugh's help) and that people STFU about it, don't you?

          by William Domingo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:26:29 PM PDT

          •  no, I want a Democrat to win

            in November and Obama can do that with all of us Hillary supporters behind him so I want Obama supporters to stop the attacks on us, so we can help.

            Feingold is right.

            by dotcommodity on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:47:57 PM PDT

            •  Feingold deserves respect....

              sad day on Kos when Feingold can't get consideration.

              by Pink Lady on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:35:15 PM PDT

            •  DotCommodity presents a very valid point, folks..

              I'm a committed Obama man in PA.  I've joined the campaign and am active in it.  I'll be canvassing PA Democrats for the next 26 days.  But, as somebody who wants to see President Obama sworn in this January, I understand that we WILL need party unity (as well as support from moderate Republicans) in order to put the McBush candidacy down in November.

              While the current fight may be to ensure that Senator Clinton is not the Democratic nominee - we, as supporters of Senator Obama's candidacy, cannot afford to alienate Hillary's fans to the point that they'll NOT turn Obama's lever in November.

              I recommend that all of us - Obama fans everywhere - consider our tone towards Clinton supporters.  Barak Obama has made it perfectly clear that he does NOT want to run a negative campaign.  I believe that his decision on this should be respected at all times - especially when one encounters a Clinton supporter.  There is NO reason to disrespect a fellow Dem who supports the opposing Dem candidate.  We will need the support of these people throughout the summer and fall of this year if we are to achieve our ultimate goal of DEFEATING JOHN McCAIN in the general election.

              Finally, this battle is all but won.  There is no need to conduct oneself as a rabid Obama Dog toward others.  Let us be gracious toward our Dem brethren.  Let us encourage them to join us in the war against the forces of evil and welcome them generously to our cause.  Lift your sight to the larger fight ahead and make your peace with those who once opposed us, for their support will be our most valuable asset when the war for the White House begins, my friends.....

              Celtic Merlin

              by Celtic Merlin on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 07:14:36 PM PDT

        •  Reminder: HRC is STILL playing hardball

          Have you seen her Fox News interview?

          Just two days ago, she was throwing the Black church under the bus by digging up the Wright story to cover up her enormous Bosnia screwup.

          I really don't think that dropping the guard 2.5 months before this thing maybe over is a smart thing to do (Reminder: when Lamont dropped the guard, Lieberman climbed all over him and did enormous damage that Lamont couldn't overcome the rest of the way).

          As long you tell the truth, keep up the pressure, Obama supporters, if you want my opinion.

          by NeuvoLiberal on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:26:59 PM PDT

          •  Well of course

            As long you tell the truth

            I don't think it's true that Hillary's a sociopath, do you?

            by david mizner on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:29:21 PM PDT

            •  She's a selfish opportunist

              as the two examples I gave above (and a bunch of other things she has done) amply illustrate. I never called her a sociopath nor does anyone reasonable advocate the use of an ultra-strong characterization like that.

              She needs to be called out for her negative attacks as they come (and as more will surely come b/w now and PA) as well as for pursuing this contest longer than necessary (while hurting party's chances; her negative attacks on Obama have already helped McCain a great deal, if you've seen the trends in GE polls) as that plays out.

              Of course, I for one, will continue to call her out on the war.

              by NeuvoLiberal on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:33:54 PM PDT

              •  Well

                at least 12 Obama supporters here at Kos say she's a sociopath.

                I look forward to your leadership in calling them out.

                by david mizner on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:37:56 PM PDT

                •  It was ill-advised for the commenter

                  to use that word, but HRC has INDEED been on a path to wreck the Democratic party if she can't have the nomination; their strategy to make Obama less electable has been amply evident.

                  Bill Clinton hobnobbing with Rush Limbahugh, who is a sociopath, to get the Republican votes (as they did to keep Obama from winning TX, eg) and the tag teaming against Obama that's been going on between the Clinton camp's attacks and the RWNM/Fox News attacks is also apparent. The poster's feeling are coming from that reality being sowed and cultivated by Hillary Clinton, as I see it.

                  by NeuvoLiberal on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:44:28 PM PDT

                  •  or, she really wants to get singlepayer and does

                    not believe Obama gives a shit. She is desperate to save the country with policy to get the changes needed, and does not think Obama will. If you read her biographies you see a very different person than you all paint here.

                    by dotcommodity on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:50:50 PM PDT

                    •  Well, her failed 1993 healthcare plan was NOT

                      single payer. Even with the approach they took, she did a lousy job by, apparently, not taking input from Democratic members of congress which led to the failure of the project.  Bill Clinton should've given the project to Gore instead (who was apparently disappointed about it).

                      Actually, while on the subject, the indications are that, if he could, Obama would be more supportive of single payer than HRC would. He supports SP-UHC in principle and OTOH, HRC didn't try to go for SP-UHC back in 1993 when she in fact had an opportunity to do so.

                      "If you read her biographies you see a very different person than you all paint here."

                      I wouldn't read any official biography of HRC after her cooked up story about Bosnia sniper fire and take what's written in it at face value.

                      And, please see my diaries about Obama's record and how McCain and HRC screwed up on the war (along with tons of videos):

                      1. John McCain and Hillary Clinton enabled the war: now 5 years and counting

                      2. Obama Fact Check rebuts NYT's skewed article about Obama's record

                      3. Obama's Record

                      by NeuvoLiberal on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:02:23 PM PDT

                      •  bio's were all by others

                        but pre election hype, so its easier to piece together an idea of what she did and didn't do, in fact a lot of the critiscm in the bios was how she upstaged Gore by having the last word on issues that Bill would decide her way in the end and the unseemly tantrum she had when he didn't acceed on NAFTA....

                        that said... of course: the bosnia story: wow! time to get some rest...3 hours nightly is not sustainable for this long. Smart of Obama to take a break.

                        by dotcommodity on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:14:14 PM PDT

                        •  BTW,

                          please see this and tell me what you think, overall.

                          "but pre election hype, so its easier to piece together an idea of what she did and didn't do"

                          Presidential archives would be more telling of what actually happened than do personal, second/third-hand accounts when it comes to politicians.

                          "in fact a lot of the critiscm in the bios was how she upstaged Gore by having the last word on issues that Bill would decide her way"

                          We need to hear what Gore has to say on the subjects raised. Gore was officialy elected for his job (and helped Clinton win in significant ways). HRC wasn't elected to any job while in the whitehouse. Gore has never given his version of events in dealing with the Clintons yet, except for some brief answers.

                          "in the end and the unseemly tantrum she had when he didn't acceed on NAFTA...."

                          The recently released schedule information seems to suggest that HRC supporter NAFTA (and as recently as 2004, she said that NAFTA was helpful to the US and NY).

                          "that said... of course: the bosnia story: wow! time to get some rest...3 hours nightly is not sustainable for this long. Smart of Obama to take a break."

                          Not sure I get this.

                          ps: BTW, just remembered your Live Earth house party diary; it was fabulous! :)

                          by NeuvoLiberal on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:22:06 PM PDT

                  •  As I think about it

                    I can see why people would perhaps see her as a sociopath. She does display the traits...but those are also the more negative traits of politicians in general
                    • Glib and superficial
                    • Egocentric and grandiose
                    • Lack of remorse or guilt
                    • Lack of true empathy
                    • Deceitful and manipulative
                    • Shallow emotions

                    Is that a sociopath or a congressman?

                    What she doesn't display are the behaviors. She doesn't do illegal behaviors, no failure to plan ahead,fine impulse control, doesn't get in physical fights or show reckless disregard  for the safety of others, she's a hard worker.

                    No diagnosis for her but an understanding why some might make the mistake

                    by joynow on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:50:28 PM PDT

                •  they just mispoke -- probably sleep deprived

                  but yea...sociopathic is best reserved for guys like Cheney, Kristol, Delay and that ilk.

                  by ancblu on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:52:33 PM PDT

                •  Unlikely a sociopath, they are usually

                  much better liars.
                  Well actually she does lie well, quite convincingly and with little sign of distress. It's the getting caught part that makes her look bad.

                  Hmmm. Do I think she's a sociopath?
                  No, no, why would I? There's nothing to base that on -- as far as I know.

                  by joynow on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:33:02 PM PDT

            •  Well, yes.

              Sociopath - a person who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.

              by edg on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:28:37 PM PDT

          •  absolutely

            I don't want anyone to "cool it" on the truth.

            (sorry if this posts twice)

            by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:38:20 PM PDT

          •  when Lamont dropped the guard

            when Lamont dropped the guard, Lieberman climbed all over him

            That's right, people told Lamont to "Give us some time to talk to Joe", and then when Lamont lost (because Lieberman teamed up with Fox News and the Republicans like Hillary is doing) the DLC "Liebercrats" mocked Lamont for "letting up", the way they're trying to convince us to do right now. Then they'll laugh in our faces when Hillary steals the election.

            by William Domingo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:42:16 PM PDT

          •  I really liked the 'stages of grief' analogy...

            think of Hillary supporters as going through denial, anger, depression, etc. and of Obama supporters as helping the Hillary supporters through their grieving process...then it's easy to detach a bit from the Clintonista hyperventilation and to refocus on delivering the message about what Barack Obama stands for and how he will deliver real change with our help.

            If we all just do the little things like knocking on that extra door or ten, picking up that extra page of phone numbers to call, or clicking that 'donate' button one more time, we'll wrap this up in short order.  Pennsylvania is looking good, with the reports of voter registration quotas exceeded by many regional Obama offices, and North Carolina is looking downright excellent for Obama.  I think that to a significant level people have already tuned out what the candidates are saying about each other and Clinton can only hurt herself with these ridiculous distractions.  

            Meanwhile, Obama himself today seemed to move past the squabbling and addressed GE-type issues on financial regulation, showing a contrast to McCain, the Sgt. Schultz of economics.

            by jeroly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:53:53 PM PDT

            •  nice comment!

              by NeuvoLiberal on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:41:26 PM PDT

        •  'Flinging poo'

          Give me a break.  Clinton donors just tried to blackmail the Speaker of the House, Clinton is talking to people like Fox News about a bloodbath at the convention and telling Obama which church to attend via Richard Mellon Scaife - my Senator ought to tell Hillary and her people to 'cool it.'

          by RobertInWisconsin on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:44:00 PM PDT

        •  Flinging poo?

          ...so stop flinging poo. It is splitting the party.

          It makes you look like sore winners. Time to be gracious. I absolutely agree with Feingold.

          Here's the reality we're dealing with: ANY criticism that the Obama campaign levels at Hillary Clinton---even if it is a direct response to unfair criticism leveled at Obama by Clinton---is interpreted as a negative attack, as dirty politics by Hillary Supporters.  It is not possible to appease such people other than to agree with them and abandon Obama for Clinton.

          Since people like this---who have invested so much of their identities in the Hillary Clinton campaign---cannot be appeased by 'kinder gentler' language, the only practical way to help them to accept Obama's inevitable nomination is by doing everything we can to crush Hillary's ill-advised campaign sooner rather than later, giving Hillary supporters a couple of extra months to get over their bitterness and disappointment.

          For this reason, the best thing that Obama supporters could do to maximize the healing process is to unleash unlimited scorn and outrage at Hillary Clinton for her despicable tactics in order to destory her candidacy as soon as possible.  They must do this in order to help the Hillary supporters to face their defeat as soon as possible.

          So no, do NOT cool it.

          by James Kroeger on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:04:19 PM PDT

          •  That would heal you?

            maximize the healing process is to unleash unlimited scorn and outrage

            Think.

            You've been doing that for months. So. Is the party splitting? Or are we coming together behind the winner?

            Think about it...really think about it. Try and imagine how you feel when unlimited scorn and outrage is poured on your preferred candidate.

            The final results in June will stop the carnage. But you all need to relax, because there is a worse enemy than the evil b****. You need to switch attacks. The fact that you are piling on the loser like this makes it seem like you don't know whats going to hit you in November.

            by dotcommodity on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:01:57 AM PDT

    •  I hate the expectations game

      It's so pervasive that even when a candidate IS the frontrunner, they want to pretend like they are not the frontrunner, and instead the underdog.

      If you're the frontrunner, then frigging say it.

      by droogie6655321 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:19:25 PM PDT

    •  No way

      We have nothing to do with all the noise that Clinton or her surrogates generate every stinkin day.

      We merely react to that coninuing nonsense.

      When the Clintons finally STFU, only THEN can anyone really say that the Obama "winners" should act like winners and be magnanimous etc.

      I'm wasn't even an Obama supporter but became one after the Clintons pushed me that way with the way the painted Obama "black" in the run up to South Carolina.

      The Clintons should be exposed and pursued at every opportunity now - they are looking for a respite given how she'd been caught lying again this week. Until they are OUT, there can be no healing in the party. They've been running a campaign of division ever since she lost her "inevitable her turn" status.  

      Now they are running for 2012 looking to sabatoge 2008 so that she can run against President McCain.

      by Judgment at Nuremberg on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:24:29 PM PDT

      •  Delegate stealing

        She's now claiming she has every right at the Democratic Nation Convention to steal as many "pledged" delegates that Obama won from him as she wants. She's all but come out and say if she doesn't win at the ballot box, she's going to do what her close friend Bush Jr did in 2000.

        by William Domingo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:34:25 PM PDT

        •  she can say whatever she wants

          She might as well say she's going to take a ladder and some wire cutters,  break into the White House and superglue her butt into the President's chair in the Oval Office.

          Saying it is one thing. Doing it is a whole 'nother ballgame.

          by elmo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:52:25 PM PDT

          •  can say whatever she wants

            I wouldn't give her claims any credence either if there was no chance of her being able to do it. But if we don't put the safeguards in place to stop her, she might be able to get away with it. I don't want to wake the next morning and find out pulled some trick to steal the nomination, and whenever someone asks, "Can she do that?" they chuckle and say "Yep".

            by William Domingo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:00:26 PM PDT

            •  lock up your ladders

              hide the wire cutters, and take the top off all the superglue so it all just dries out. Can she do it? No she can't.

              by elmo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:58:51 PM PDT

              •  lock up your ladders

                I was talking about her stealing enough of Obama's pledged delegates from him at the convention to be declared the winner, not her breaking into the White House and gluing her butt to the chair, in case you didn't get what I was referring to.

                by William Domingo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 07:17:56 PM PDT

                •  and I was saying it was about as likely

                  for her to be able to do that as to break into the White House, which is to say not likely.

                  by elmo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 07:34:23 PM PDT

        •  No-one can "steal" a delegate

          who doesn't want to defect.

          by ben masel on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:18:23 PM PDT

  •  Actually...

    In a way, he's right and I'm a hardcore, 100%, Kool-Aid Obama supporter.

    We need to take a page from Barack Obama and be respectful with Clinton supporters and just agree to disagree.  As this race dawns to a close the more friendly we become the faster and likely it'll be for them to support Obama.

    by ovelarde on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:14:17 PM PDT

    •  Cool it? Nah.

      I'm "fired up and ready to go!"

      by jhutson on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:22:28 PM PDT

    •  Well said.

      We should be firm in our opposition to Hillary's tactics, but we can do that in a way that avoids letting her turn us into - people like her. Her vitriol has had an effect pretty similar to the zombie blood in 28 Days Later... Not to say that I've lived by this advice myself all the time; but we best represent Obama by keeping a tone that demonstrates our confidence and the justice, rather than the mere intensity, of our outrage at Hillary's dirty politics.

      by scardanelli on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:26:07 PM PDT

    •  Not true

      Our actions have pitifully little to do with how HRC supporters feel. They take their cue from her and believe her that Obama is inesxperienced, the "black" candidate, the african candidate, maybe kind of muslim, not quite American etc etc.

      They have absorbed all of the Clintons evil propaganda and to hold Obama supporters reponsible is just laughable.

      The sooner the Clintons are removed from the public conciousness, the sooner the democratic party can breath again and actually have a chance at moving forward. They are our single biggest impediment now and the maximum pressure should be applied against elected Clinton supporters like Mayor Nutter, Rendell etc.

      by Judgment at Nuremberg on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:30:44 PM PDT

      •  Myopic

        view by not seeing the bigger picture.  We'll need them as much as they'll need us to have a plurality and ultimately a solid majority to beat McCain.

        But they're just as energized and sympathetic to their candidate as us are about Obama.  The more vitrol we inject into this race the harder it'll be to heal the wounds and come together.

        But then again, I hope that we'll be mature enough to understand that.

        by ovelarde on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 07:33:40 PM PDT

        •  Our "vitrol"

          is a joke. It's a like spit in an ocean of filth that Clinton spews daily on the airwaves. Lets get real.
          Also place blame where it belongs. This is coming from the top down. When my candidate gor beat, it wasn't like this because my candidate had class.

          by Judgment at Nuremberg on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 08:09:53 PM PDT

  •  I don't think Russ wants you to stop supporting

    Obama.  I think he wants you to do it smarter, by realizing that the nomination is worthless without the support of the other candidate's backers.

    Who many Obama supporters seem determined to drive away, in droves.

    by Califlander on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:14:21 PM PDT

    •  I didn't say that's what he wanted.

      by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:15:47 PM PDT

  •  Don't get mad, get even.

    Work harder to secure the nomination instead.  Doesn't sound like Feingold was saying STFU anyhow, just be civil.

    by Land of Enchantment on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:50:54 PM PDT

•  Russ is right

  As he often is.

  by david mizner on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:08:12 PM PDT

  •  ..."when he's criticizing Obama and/or...

    ...his supporters."

    Sincerely, David Mizner

    by DHinMI on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:10:27 PM PDT

    •  Huh?

      I'm an Obama supporter; he doesn't seem to be criticizing me.

      I've been a huge fan of Russ, mainly for his support of civil liberties and his leadership of trade.

      Less thrilled about his stance on Israel and his vote for welfare reform in 1996.

      But he's undoubtedly one of the best, and had he run I might have supported him if I could've gotten my concerns about his electability.

      by david mizner on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:14:14 PM PDT

      •  ooh lotta typos

        sorry

        by david mizner on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:16:00 PM PDT

    •  I'd like both sides to "cool it."

      It isn't helping in any way, shape or form. Hillary is on her last legs finacially and voterly so let her die off and we'll move forward.

      People are losing their minds right now. Why give them LSD?

      by Mike S on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:14:44 PM PDT

•  Yes, Feingold is out of line here...

  by David Kroning on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:08:38 PM PDT

  •  I wouldn't say he's "out of line"

    Just... misguided.

    by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:13:38 PM PDT

    •  Reading between the lines here, I wonder if

      he's letting us know she needs a way to step aside gracefully and historically, as the first viable woman presidential candidate in the history of the Republic.

      Perhaps we Obama supporters should more often comment on the fact that -- for all time -- it will be the Democratic Party that fielded the country's first major woman presidential candidate.

      It certainly is a fact I'm proud of, and for reasons we all know, it highlights a fundamental, if not ultimately terminal, deficiency of the opposition party.

      by Mogolori on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:26:45 PM PDT

      •  well said

        I wish he would have made that more clear, instead of just snapping at people to "cool it."

        by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:27:44 PM PDT

        •  Not his most erudite and circumspect moment....

          by Mogolori on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:30:53 PM PDT

      •  Here's the thing...

        She needs to lose a battleground primary. She can't drop out right now after winning Texas and Ohio.

        Her supporters don't feel like she's lost yet.

        We need to win this nomination, and I have every confidence that it will happen. But in order for there to be unity, there has to be a clean end. It has to be decided by the voters.

        by ptmflbcs on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:45:19 PM PDT

        •  Hard to argue with...

          by Mogolori on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:51:55 PM PDT

        •  She lost Texas.

          by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:54:15 PM PDT

          •  When will they make Texas his color on the "map"?

            I find it maddening that it is still colored as if she won.

            by leawood on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:18:40 PM PDT

            •  Primary votes

              she won the primary, he won the caucus and they don't color maps by delegate count...if they did, New Hampshire and Missouri would have to be shaded white.

              Texas is, ironically enough, a good bellwhether to where this race is post March 4th.

              I like this map of the primaries. You roll the mouse over caucus results and delegate wins and Nevada and Texas change color for him.

              by nrafter530 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:34:19 PM PDT

              •  Thanks.

                My favorite is when you click on "caucus", crazy she has only one victory.

                by leawood on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:46:14 PM PDT

  •  I'm just confused.

    How are Obama's supporters behaving differently than Clinton's?

    Have I missed something?

    by leawood on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:16:49 PM PDT

•  I think a great deal of Finegold and he's stood

  his ground and cast some fine votes.  But I do not agree with him on this. I do not think we should "cool it." Fight on!

  by phrogge prince on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:08:48 PM PDT

  •  Yes, fight on!

    And by all means, rachet up the volume!  Accuse Clinton supporters of racism, tell them how much they disgust you, and use the f-bomb liberally.  That'll ensure victory in November!

    For someone.

    by Califlander on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:16:38 PM PDT

    •  I believe it means fight her lies

      by anotherCt Dem on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:19:12 PM PDT

      •  Thank you. I appreciate good readers. :-)

        by phrogge prince on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:26:23 PM PDT

        •  I work in the classroom - gotta be :)

          by anotherCt Dem on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:28:38 PM PDT

          •  Did it myself for 35 years. :-) n/t

            by phrogge prince on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:41:03 PM PDT

    •  Fixed

      Accuse Inform Clinton supporters of her thinly veiled racism and how their continued Kool-aid drinkage endangers the coalition, tell them how much they their candidate disgusts you with her scorched earth tactics, and use the f-bomb liberally.

      Fuckin-a.  Will do.

      by slippytoad on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:24:58 PM PDT

      •  If you do, it would be a welcome change

        ... from the comments posted here by your fellow partisans.

        I don't like being told to go fuck myself.  It's both annoying and anatomically unlikely and doesn't make me even a little bit more inclined to support your guy, now or in November.  You might want to keep that in mind, both for your own posts or in those you recommend.

        By the way:  "fixing" my post to reflect your spin rather than my complaint may make you feel better, but it implies that you don't see anything wrong with the behaviors I've called out, and that doesn't do much for your guy with me, either.

        by Califlander on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:50:26 PM PDT

        •  Try not to hold it against Obama.

          Whatever his strengths and weaknesses, he really can't control what overzealous online supporters are saying.  After the nomination is made, there's a lot of work to be done patching up some of these rifts.

          by pico on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 01:34:48 AM PDT

        •  The overwhelming majority of the anti-Hillary

          Comments I have seen on this site are factual and issue-related.  I think your outrage is just a tad bit forced.

          The issues with Hillary are, and always have been, that she triangulates, she throws the base under the bus whenever our opinions are inconvenient for her, and that she is more interested in gaining the Presidency than in fixing the nation's problems.  And that she has compromised the party and made a mockery of the election process in doing so.

          • Specifically she voted yes on the AUMF and has never recanted or apologized for the damage that caused.

          • She has publicly given credence to the utter bullshit ticking timebomb scenario as a justification for torture.  By the way, that was the line she crossed that turned me off permanently, and she did it in the middle of Election 2006.  I got flamebombed on Kos for having the nerve to post a non-election diary calling attention to her torture triangulation.

          • In the course of this election she has given props to the Republican candidate, indicating that he is preferable to her Democratic opponent.

          • She agreed that Michigan and Florida had hosed themselves by moving their primary dates, and then reneged on that agreement when it became clear that she was not going to win in a cakewalk.

          • She has implied that the Superdelegates should ignore the popular vote and just give her the nom.

          • She has implied that she may feel free to attempt to poach pledged delegates from Obama.  Again, fuck the popular vote.

          • Finally she has made up ridiculous stories inflating her experience and credentials.

          That's just off the top of my head, the basic gist of this site over the last 3 months.  I read faster than 99% of the population; I don't read every diary on Kos but I do sample probably 25% of them.

          You may be able to cherry pick a few rude comments out, but I defy you to show that overall the site's comments are unjustified criticism.

          If you have an answer for these criticisms I'm all ears.  If you're just going to complain that Obama supporters are being mean for pointing these facts out, go cry somewhere else.

          by slippytoad on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:17:59 AM PDT

•  I agree with Senator Feingold

  We should all come to terms with the fact that Senator Obama has won the nomination.  For us that means realising that unless we get the activists on Clinton's side to come over we run the risk of not only killing Senator Obama's chances at being a transformative candidate, but maybe losing the whole thing.

  Actually we shouldn't just cool it.  We at the grassroots should begin the fence-mending.

  by salsa0000 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:10:52 PM PDT

  •  exactly: you won, now don't make it harder...

    My take on it is that the subtext is:  The primary is over, Obama will win, and HRC's supporters will be hurting, so don't pursue a scorched-earth policy, it's time to heal the party.  

    If that's what's going on, I whole-heartedly agree.  

    by G2geek on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:18:11 PM PDT

•  Russ Russ Russ

  Get the cheese outta yer head here - do you think for one second the LQ (Lizard Queen, as in Diana from "V", whom I have officially rechristened Hillary as) is gonna give you any post worth taking?  I mean seriously Russ - a twice divorced non-Christian who isn't part of "The Family" or one who at least has huge corporate conncections?  

  The only thing that needs to keep cool is, ahem, cheese.  And beer.  Which being from Wisconsin you might know a thing or two about.

  by OneCharmingBastard on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:11:50 PM PDT

  •  Huh?

    WTF is that all about?

    by DHinMI on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:12:47 PM PDT

    •  It's about Russ saying "cool it"

      eom

      by OneCharmingBastard on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:18:14 PM PDT

  •  I don't like beer

    Cheese, on the other hand, I'm quite familiar with. :)

    by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:13:04 PM PDT

  •  And you prove his

    point, unintentionally I'm sure.

    by Mike S on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:15:59 PM PDT

  •  I dount he's aiming for a post

    in the Hillary cabinet. Not that it matters, since that isn't happening. Which is why I don't see his point here.

    by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:17:10 PM PDT

    •  I think

      that Sen Feingold is giving good advice to Obama supporters, and he's doing it because he wants to see Obama win-he did vote for him, after all, in our primary.  And I'm sure by cool it he doesn't mean to stop working hard, just to act a little less fierce towards those who aren't already on board.

      by SharaiP on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:21:52 PM PDT

      •  But is that what we're doing?

        How are we acting any worse than those in the Clinton camp? Why is he picking on us?

        by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:23:48 PM PDT

        •  Because he has more cred with

          us. Me telling a Hillary supporter to "cool it" is kind of pointless. I want Obama to win. Telling an Obama supporter to do so carries more weight,

          by Mike S on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:44:13 PM PDT

          •  And because an Obama supporter

            telling his fellow Obama supporters to act more like Obama should carry some weight, I would think.

            by oldjohnbrown on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:41:21 PM PDT

            •  Although this thread

              disproves that.

              by Mike S on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:44:22 PM PDT

              •  It is silly season after all

                Proof only applies in a logical context. ;-)

                by oldjohnbrown on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:49:11 PM PDT

        •  2 reasons.

          1. He lurks here a lot.

          2. because he figures Obama's got the nomination won.

          by ben masel on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:35:33 PM PDT

  •  If he were gunning for a post

    .. in a Clinton administration, he wouldn't have signaled his support for Obama after the Wisconsin primary.

    Here, cool down and have a beer.

    by AnnieJo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:22:04 PM PDT

•  YES

  We at the grassroots should begin the fence-mending.

  It is time.

  by Seattlite on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:12:27 PM PDT

  •  THAT

    I quite agree with.  Olive branches are so in this time of year.

    by OneCharmingBastard on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:13:34 PM PDT

  •  Being the bigger person

    has never been one of my strengths. Maybe that's why I took offense to his comments.

    I see the flip side, though.

    by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:14:44 PM PDT

    •  It's not about being a bigger person.

      How will you act when Obama is officially the nominee?  Well guess what, the situation is the same only not "official".  He's the nominee.  It's time for us to act that way.  

      by dougdilg on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:19:10 PM PDT

      •  does this mean no more Hillarybashing?

        and ....will there be actual diaries again? Ah, the  relief! Cleans poo from eyes....oh, I think I am starting to see the candidates better...why, you know, he's actually fine...sure, why not?...I can get behind him in november...

        by dotcommodity on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:26:25 PM PDT

  •  It's very hard to mend fences

    with people who hate you because of your candidate's success. If myDD is any indication, the Clinton supporters see an entire different reality than we do. I get along perfectly well with the non-blogging, medium info HRC supporters out there. But the hardcore? I doubt they want reconciliation.

    by anotherCt Dem on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:17:57 PM PDT

    •  asdf

      I get along perfectly well with the non-blogging, medium info HRC supporters out there.

      Me too. That's what I was trying to say, essentially. What are we doing so wrong that we need to be scolded and told to "cool it"? Isn't it Clinton's campaign and supporters that are stirring up the most negativity?

      by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:19:31 PM PDT

      •  And I'm not thrilled with

        being told how to handle myself - and this from a real "maverick" (but Question Authority is my favorite BS <g>)

        by anotherCt Dem on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:24:27 PM PDT

      •  Well sure, a lot of dirt from the Clinton

        side but what the heck.

        It's important to be a gracious winner too. Maybe her supporters model themselves after her, OK.

        But if we model ourselves after Obama we would cool it, he's nothing if not cool under pressure. He is surprisingly gracious even when he has an opening to act otherwise.

        by joynow on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 07:05:20 PM PDT

    •  We Won

      It is time for us as the winners to be magnanimous, to be good sports and begin to heal before it doesn't matter that we won.

      There is no use in winning the battle if we lose the war.

      by Seattlite on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:22:18 PM PDT

      •  I'll do my part

        but many HRC backers are entrenched, and I believe deliberately deluding themselves.

        by anotherCt Dem on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:27:40 PM PDT

    •  We have the same kind of assholes

      on our side too. And our hard core don't want reconciliation either. Just look at the kid "Ihatebush."

      by Mike S on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:27:01 PM PDT

      •  Absolutely - the "I'll vote McCain" crowd

        by anotherCt Dem on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:30:04 PM PDT

        •  Definitely. I'm all about SYFPH.

          by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:32:52 PM PDT

          •  HRC has been dreadful

            but I will never vote for McCain.

            by anotherCt Dem on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:35:34 PM PDT

  •  It's time to mend the fence

    as soon as people quit tearing it down in fox news interviews.

    by VelvetElvis on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:56:48 PM PDT

•  maybe what feingold is saying is

  that obamaites are winning, and that they should be gracious in victory...since they'll need the votes of the clintonites in the fall

  time for ceasefire...and unity ahead of the big fight in the fall

  by succinct on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:18:14 PM PDT

  •  We can't have unity

    as long as there are still two candidates.

    by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:20:37 PM PDT

    •  but can't either

      if we keep demonizing the other half of the party.

      and we can't go on our holier than thou "nah nah nah nah nah, we won and you lost!" tirades when we finally win.

      by nrafter530 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:25:46 PM PDT

      •  Is that what we're doing, though?

        I guess that's what I'm asking.

        I think we're gunning for one candidate, and telling the other candidate to stop the lies and smears. I don't see what's so wrong with that.

        by PhantomFly on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:28:40 PM PDT

        •  Yeah, it is

          Hillary Clinton may lie...what politician doesn't and I'm sorry don't say Barack Obama, because I will bet my entire checking account that he'll lie at some point too...she may want to win at all costs, but that doesn't surprise me at all...but she is not a Republican, she is not a monster, she is not a racist, she is not a warmongerer, she is not doing anything differently than any other Presidential candidate in her position would do.

          Her supporters are not racists, they're not Republicans, they're not some disease we need to purge from the party...that's the way we're coming across right now.

          by nrafter530 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:36:39 PM PDT

          •  Thanks, nrafter530.

            You are so often the voice of reason in these heated debates.  

            I really appreciate it.

            by Angry Mouse on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:56:21 PM PDT

            •  Sometimes I think we forget

              just how strong these two are. I watch MSNBC and CNN on primary nights and I see their graphics up calling a state and there, up on their big screen, is a woman or an African-American with a little check next to their face. Chills ran up my spine when I saw them call Oklahoma, Tennessee, and New Hampshire for Hillary, and Idaho, Utah and Iowa for Obama. We have the most inspirational leader in modern history and a woman who can bring men to their knees. THEY are going to nominate a tired old man because it's the best they can do. We have a lot to be proud of this year.
              My grandmother says America would never elect a President who isn't a white male...2.8 million Texans, 2.2 million Ohioans, 4.7 million Californians, nearly 1 million Virginians...ALMOST 25 MILLION PEOPLE have decided that a woman or a black man or either can and will be President. We about to send a message to the world that we are not the America you thought we were. We about to write a chapter in history and turn the page in the 21st century.
              And we can acheive it by appealing to the best in us, or we can blow it by appealing to the worst.

              by nrafter530 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:24:09 PM PDT

•  I'm cool

  I'm enjoying the ride, actually. A lot of people are afraid that Clinton will tarnish Obama in the general with all her scratching and clawing.

  If it were anyone else but Barack Obama, I would be worried. But this man has proven again and again that he's made of tough stuff. And he's got the numbers and support it'll take to win.

  by droogie6655321 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:18:27 PM PDT

  •  no, what people are worrying about,

    including Feingold, is that Clinton supporters (defenders) are being forced into such a defensive crouch by Obama supporters that they cannot stand up and get behind the nominee to be. And he is right.

    Time to stop being such sore winners

    by dotcommodity on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:29:29 PM PDT

    •  Eh

      I'm tired of this.

      When we're up in the polls, we can't talk about it. We have to pretend that we're 30 behind.

      When Clinton is having a bad news cycle, we can't enjoy the moment.

      When we're winning, we can't talk about that either because we might offend some thin-skinned Democrats.

      I feel great that Obama is winning, and I talk about it every now and then.

      by droogie6655321 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:33:24 PM PDT