Daily Kos

Another Call for the Dream Ticket (To Kick the Crap Out of McCain)

Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:45:58 AM PDT

(Note: Many people have expressed their dislike of the dream ticket in the general.  Please note that I am not necessarily advocating for such; rather, I am suggesting that between now and when the last primaries take place, they run as if they are running together.  There is a difference.)

I know, I know.  

They hate each other.  We hate each other.  If the other candidate experiences anything other than total, absolute, crushing defeat, we will all sit at home and pout.  Or vote for McCain.  Or vote for Nader.

The goal, as I think we'd all agree, is to kick McCain's sorry old "War 4 Ever!" ass back into the mid-ages from whence he came.

The reason we can't do that just yet is that we haven't decided who should do it.

I know, I know.  Obama.  Yes we can.  Si se puede.  The math.  The will of the people.  More states, red states, delegates, popular vote.  

I know, I know.  

(Heck, I personally conceded a week ago.)  

However...

There are a handful of states to go.  And if the rest of us -- the millions who don't live in Iowa or New Hampshire  -- for one glorious primary (or caucus) day, got to feel like our vote really mattered, why should we begrudge our fellow citizens that same joy?

We shouldn't.

And so this will go on, until every single last one of us has had a say.

Because that is the American way.

But they'll kill each other!  And we'll lose to McCain!

I know, I know.

But they don't have to kill each other.  And we won't lose to McCain.  And this is how:

They run like they are the dream ticket.

They stop running against each other, and start running against McCain together.  No more debates with each other; no more negative campaigning against each other.  Positive campaigning only.  

Obama can talk about the change he wants to bring to America.

Clinton can talk about her practical solutions to fix everything that's been all fucked up for the past seven years.

And they can kick the crap out of John McCain.  Together.

But...who is the nominee?

Well, come on.

We all know who that is.  Or probably is.  But here is what matters:    

In the months that follow, the remaining states will get to vote.  And they'll get to know both of the Democratic candidates, as they travel and stump and speak about their positive qualities.  No more sniping about each other.  

(And that means no more surrogate sniping either.)

The remaining states will see the best of what both candidates have to offer as they work together to kick McCain's ass.

The remaining states will vote.

Those votes could be decisive.  Obama could blow it out.  And even if doesn't, as long as he maintains a strong lead in pledged delegates and popular vote, the superdelegates would be fully justified in choosing him.  

And he will thank Hillary Clinton.  And he will ask her to run with him, to continue their fight together against John McCain.  She might decide to run with him; she might decide to stay in the Senate, to work with him that way to enact the policies they both support.  Either way, the Democrats win.

Obama's supporters will not be happy.  They will say that Obama doesn't need Clinton, and after the way she's treated him, she can go Cheney herself.  It's time for change.

Clinton's supporters will not be happy either.  They know that Hillary has the kind of experience and knowledge and determination to be a great president.  And she's worked longer and harder than just about any one -- ever -- to get to where she is today.  They'll always believe she should have been at the top of that ticket.

But without a tie or lead in pledged delegates and/or the popular vote, that won't happen.

But you know what?  We'll deal with it.  We'll learn to like it.  We'll learn to love it.

We'll remember why we're Democrats.  Because we want to get along.  We want to work together.  We want to include everyone.  

We're dirty fucking hippies, damn it.  We're liberals.  

We're the ones who were right about this stupid war all the way back in 2002.

We're the ones who wanted to believe in our president and our government (and that SOB Colin Powell) because we don't want to be cynical.

We're the ones who think things like health care and education and clear air are important.

We're the ones who don't care who you're having sex with because everyone does it.

We're the ones who believe in science and liberty and possibility.

And we're going to beat the crap out of John McCain in November.

Because no matter which one wins the Democratic primary -- Obama or Clinton -- they're going to eat McCain for breakfast.  Not even breakfast.  A snack.  A quick few bites on the go.

Just think about it for a minute...

I'm Barack Obama. I just defeated The Clinton Machine.  The frigging Clinton Machine!  They threw their best at me, they knocked me around for more than a year, and you know what?  I'm still standing.  I'm stronger than ever.  And now I'm going to kick the crap out of McCain.

Or...

I'm Hillary Clinton. I am The Toughest Woman You Will Ever Meet.  People have been trying to take me down my whole life.  I've worked my ass off; I've had every inch of my life examined, critized, threatened, humiliated, and you know what?  I'm still standing.  I'm stronger than ever.  And now I'm going to kick the crap out of McCain.    

And it will work.

Because whoever wins the nomination will have had the toughest primary fight in history.  Old videos all over YouTube.  Cable networks and all the blogs spending every minute of every day testing the candidates, trying to knock them down, knock them out...all day long, every day, for months.

And John McCain is sitting over in a corner, having Joe Lieberman whisper the answers in his ear, mumbling about war and terrorists and tax cuts.  And no one cares.  No one's listening.  His numbers look okay for now, but that won't last.

Because when the Democrats focus on him, and the whole country is reminded of why everything sucks right now, there is no way another crusty old war lovin' Republican is going to sit in that Oval Office next January.

Not gonna happen.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, 2008, Democrats, John McCain, dream ticket, election (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 52 comments

  •  Pelosi says NO! (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Chi, sheddhead, Dagoril, ilex, RadioGirl
    <div>
    pelosi
    Uploaded by krs601</div>

    You can thank Clinton for soundly slamming shut that door. :^)

    a gallon of blood for a gallon of oil!

    by haruki on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:47:40 AM PDT

  •  ANY Ticket With Clinton Is A LOSER (8+ / 0-)

    Why take all of the good will Obama is building, even among REPUBLICANS, and squander it on her???

    •  You will note... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Kitty, Wee Mama

      that the bulk of my diary is advocating that they start running now as if they are on the ticket together, regardless of whether that will be the eventual ticket.

      •  I would be delighted to see them both running on (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Kitty

        the same side, and against McCain. I just hope that Clinton's supporters don't take that as evidence that they will in fact share the ticket.

        •  I can't speak for all, but... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Kitty

          this Clinton supporter is, above all, a realist.  As I wrote in an earlier diary, without counting MI and FL, it is all but impossible for Clinton to overcome Obama's leads.  And that means he will be the nominee.

          I also wouldn't blame Obama for wanting Clinton as far away from him as possible -- and that means keeping her off the ticket.

          However, when Obama is the nominee, he will have the responsibility of reaching out to the tens of millions of people who have been supporting Hillary.  I am most curious to see how he does that.

  •  Whenever I read "Dream" (9+ / 0-)

    I automatically think of Michael Jordan.  It's a Chicago Thing.  

    I'd vote for Obama and MJ before I'd vote for Obama and Hillary.

    Heck, I might even vote for Obama and Rodman before I voted for Obama and Hillary.

    "2009" The end of an error

    by sheddhead on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:49:32 AM PDT

    •  I'd vote for Obama and 'Captain' Kirk (0+ / 0-)

      (who sucks and makes me weep with shame for the Bulls). /snark
      Anyway I like your idea Angrymouse but both the Clintons-yes,Bubba and Hill both will have to act like  responsible democrats and stop putting McCain up on a pedestal and for all reasons and purposes endorsing him as a 'moderate' though he voted for water-boarding, Bubba's perjury, Bush-tax cuts, the war which he detests bu wants to wage for anywhere between a 100-1000 years, immigration(he's backtracking on amnesty), abortion-rights(he's firmly against it), ethics(Keating 5 anyone??), lobbyist ties(everybody knows that one), things which even got Sully(Andrew Sullivan) squirming about McCain's 'moderateness' and the Hill-supporters should stop quoting American Spectator, Rush Limbaugh and Faux News.

    •  MJ/Pippen Ticket (0+ / 0-)

      I'd for that one ; )

  •  Not a chance. (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Chi, RabidNation, soonerhq, Fawkes

    Clinton dulls the ticket. No way in hell. I would be furious if Clinton were on the ticket.

    "How often misused words generate misleading thoughts."
    ~Herbert Spencer~

    by Eidolon on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:50:49 AM PDT

  •  One person's dream (7+ / 0-)

    is another's nightmare. Obama Clinton fits into that category for me.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Alan Kay

    by Robinswing on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:51:12 AM PDT

  •  Clinton can Campaign for Obama WITHOUT (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Chi, esquimaux, Fawkes

    being the VP nom.  But the question is: "will she if she has little to gain personally?"

    George W Bush: 8 years of Presidency, 13 Years of War.

    by XNeeOhCon on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:51:34 AM PDT

  •  Dream ticket? More like nightmare. (6+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Chi, RabidNation, soonerhq, ilex, Nailbanger, Fawkes

    Why would Obama drag Hillary and her huge negatives into his campaign? So that the Republicans will get to use all the stuff they've been saving up? Huge mistake. It's not going to happen.

  •  Read the whole thing. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Kitty, The Termite, desertlover

    I am not saying necessarily that they should be on the ticket together.

    Rather, I am saying that is the strategy they should use to finish out the primary season so they can start going after McCain now until the rest of the states have voted.

  •  We're so much better off... (0+ / 0-)

    ...with Obama in the White House and Hillary as Senate Majority Leader.  So much better off.

    "I've waited all my life for a Republican Barack Obama. Now he shows up and he's a Democrat." - Frank Luntz

    by The Termite on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:52:59 AM PDT

  •  eating salsa right before bedtime (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    haruki, Fawkes
    was giving me dreams like that. Once I quit, they went away.

    -9.0, -8.3. History is more or less bunk.--Henry Ford
    Henry Ford is more or less bunk.--history

    by SensibleShoes on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:58:31 AM PDT

  •  No (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    haruki, Fawkes, Omar Little

    Whose dream ticket is this?  Wolf Blitzer's?  Give me a break with the "dream ticket" crap already.  Sure, campaign that way, but there's no reason to have Hillary (all four of her) on the ticket.

    "Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking." - John Maynard Keynes

    by Drew J Jones on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:59:30 AM PDT

  •  Clinton? Dream ticket? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RabidNation

    More like poop ticket.

    That racist is history. I don't want to see her face ever again after this is over.

    She's a McCain sucking piece of shit and if Michelle lets her ugly ass on the ticket, I'll eat my hat.

    McCain graduated 795th/800 at the Naval Academy

    by Omar Little on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:02:52 PM PDT

  •  Obama doesn't need the baggage. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    terryhutchinson, Fawkes

    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. -- Thomas Jefferson

    by DWKING on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:04:19 PM PDT

  •  There is only one VP nominee (0+ / 0-)

    The only VP nominee to run with Obama who makes sense is James Webb, Senator from Virginia. He was right on Iraq, a former Secretary of the Navy in the Reagan administration. And the only Democrat who has the credibility without appearing ridiculous who can wear his son's combat boots while his son was in the military in Iraq,  in his Senate race against George Allen.

    Webb will be strong in areas where Obama is vulnerable to McCain and having Webb on the ticket will give an additional reason for the country and the formerly red states to vote for Obama.

    Hillary brings nothing to the ticket except some angst and radical feminists who may not vote because their candidate didnt get nominated,

    •  I'd agree with you, but... (0+ / 0-)

      I think that last line is really unfair.  Hillary has not been a Ron Paul-type fringe candidate.  She has not gotten as far as she has only because of "radical feminists."

    •  I would still (0+ / 0-)

      like to see Edwards on the ticket, even as VP.  But if we are seriously talking VP for best results in the general then I expect a white guy with a military back ground to counter McCain.

      •  I don't disagree. (0+ / 0-)

        However, in the mean time, something has to be done to bring the party back together.  Something more than simply Obama defeating Clinton.

        Which is why I think that the two of them running together against McCain between now and the end of the primary season would help.

        Because we can all stop hating each other -- and by the time Obama officially wraps up the nomination, maybe the Clinton supporters will have calmed down and will be ready to accept and support him, whether she is on the ticket or not.

        •  Hillary is the one who is divisive (0+ / 0-)

          Obama would have loved to run with Hillary in the primary campaign against McCain but once Hillary found she would not be ordained the nominee; Billary got ugly.

          So ugly in fact that she at times was running with McCain against Obama so your 'kumbayah' notion while noble is not realistic because of Hillary.

          My reference to the radical feminists who support Hillary and wont be voting for Obama is to show how most of Hillary's voters will vote for Obama except for the radical feminists, a very insignificant part of the electorate.

  •  it's a false equivalence (0+ / 0-)

    People who voted for Clinton because they can't stand Obama, or they think he's lied, or they think he's a hustler or secretly hates America, etc. aren't going to jump on board just because Clinton could be vice-president.

    People aren't stupid. They know it's not the same job. Yes, it's a strong endorsement by Clinton, and that alone will win Obama lots of her votes, but they know that Obama will be the one running the show.

    "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin

    by CaptUnderpants on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:05:43 PM PDT

  •  No, no, no, no... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Fawkes

    a thousand times no.

    Why galvanize the right-wing vote by giving them the target they so desperately crave?

  •  It would be nice (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Fawkes

    to see the two direct their energies toward McCain, but in light of Clinton's recent blackmail/Bush tactics (or more like Cheney tactics) I am afraid both for our chances in the fall and for the party's survival after the summer. We've had one delusional Prez that thought he was a King, why not follow it with a second delusional Prez who thinks she is a Queen.

    Words escape me, but deeds are always noticed

    by utopia on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:06:49 PM PDT

  •  Why pick a narcissistic liar (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RabidNation, Fawkes

    for your VP?

    "How high flies the solitary bird."

    by terryhutchinson on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:07:43 PM PDT

  •  Geez, people, read the damn thing first. (0+ / 0-)

    I generally enjoy these conversations, but it appears, from most of the comments, that you haven't actually read the diary.

    There are two separate issues here, and I am primarily addressing the issue of how to complete the primary season.

    I understand that most people around here don't want Hillary on the ticket at all.  Fine.  But I am talking about a strategy for how to complete the primary season, so that Hillary and Obama can stop attacking each other and start attacking McCain together, while allowing the remaining states to participate.

  •  I read the whole thing... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Angry Mouse

    You make compelling arguments, by the end you had me almost wanting the "dream ticket".

    However, unless there is a great bit of healing between now and then I don't think it could (or even should) happen.

    Still, you're the first person to make me seriously consider it.

    I'm still pulling for Obama/Sebelius personally!

    -6.0/-6.21 John McCain: he's not change you can believe in!

    by doctorgirl on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:18:09 PM PDT

    •  Thank you. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      doctorgirl
      The reason I keep coming back to the idea of the dream ticket is precisely because there needs to be healing.  

      Even if Obama offers the slot to her and she says no, I think that would go a long way toward that end.

      Eventually, we will have to kiss and make up.

  •  This isn't true: (0+ / 0-)

    And so this will go on, until every single last one of us has had a say.

    Because that is the American way.

    How many times has the nominee been determined by the time the later states get an opportunity to vote?  Or even worse, the candidate that you knew would make the difference, had been knocked out of the race.  The Democratic Party needs to stop enabling the Clintons.

    "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

    by lordcopper on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:20:34 PM PDT

    •  Just because (0+ / 0-)

      in the past, the nominee is chosen before most of the country gets a say doesn't mean that's how it should work.

      Personally (as I explained in my diary), I love the fact that everyone gets a voice this time.

      •  What's the point if the decision ha been made? (0+ / 0-)

        Is it worthit to expend party resources, or potentially injure the nominee?  Wouldn't this ime be better spent pounding McCain into submission while he's still under spending limitations?

        "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

        by lordcopper on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:55:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The point is that everyone gets to vote. (0+ / 0-)

          I don't know what state you live in, but during my entire voting life, I've never lived in a state that actually got to play a role in selecting the nominee.  The nomination was always wrapped up by the time it was my turn.

          I think it would reflect well on the Democratic party if we could say that every voter in every state had the opportunity to participate in choosing our nominee.  That is Democratic and democratic.

          The issue is how we make it from now to the end of the primary season without damaging ourselves and instead focusing on McCain.

          That is the point of my diary.

          •  Mouse, I live in Florida It wasn't so long (0+ / 0-)

            ago (2000) that we Florida voters found out that we didn't have an absolute right to vote under the Florida Constitution (I would suggest that other state constituitions are similar).  My idealism is gone, I'm just searching for workable solutions.

            "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

            by lordcopper on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 01:14:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  My apologies on Florida. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              lordcopper

              Truly.

              But the fact that historically, most voters don't actually get a say, doesn't mean that justifies continuing to discount voters (even in Puerto Rico).

              We have this one amazing unique moment to let everyone have a voice.  I think it would be a damn shame to squander it for the sake of political expediency.  

              (And if we've learned anything after seven years, it should be that acting for the sake of political expediency usually comes back to bite you in the ass anyway.)

              •  I would agree with the sentiment, but (0+ / 0-)

                the stakes are too important this year to give any thought to anything but winning.  I recognize the points you are making and in a perfect world...

                "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

                by lordcopper on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 01:36:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  But that is always the argument. (0+ / 0-)

                  The stakes are too important "this year."  I don't disagree with you; the stakes are important.  But then, they usually are.  I heard the same argument in 2000, and of course, in 2004.

                  Standing by your principles is rarely convenient.

                  But I have full confidence that the Democrats will be able to chew McCain up and spit him out, so maybe, for a few more months, we could afford to stick by our principles.

  •  not featuring a "bush" or a "clinton" (0+ / 0-)

    is a prerequisite of my "dream ticket"

    from bulgaria, with love

    by memofromturner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:25:49 PM PDT

  •  It would be great if this diary was actually what (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Angry Mouse

    happened on the campaign trail.  But the problem with transfering this wonderful thought to reality is that it doesn't help Clinton win.  And that's not me being snarky towards HRC it's just a fact. There is no reason for the Clinton Machine to do this because it wouldn't benefit them, and that's ok. This is politics and I'm just jazzed that Democrats are finally taking the gloves off and showing they know how to fight.  

    I'm just waiting for someone at the Clinton camp to realize that their only options now are to save face or to flame out.  Hopefully she'll save face and go on to be a hell of a Majority Leader (if she can win that post) and a great 45th POTUS (if she can win the next real nomination fight).

    •  No delusions here... (0+ / 0-)

      about whether this is a strategy that could actually happen.

      But I don't think that having party leadership tell Clinton it's time for her to get out now (i.e., Sen. Leahy) is the way to go about bringing Clinton supporters around to Obama.

      And like it or not, Obama really does need Clinton's supporters to win.

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