{Call to Action} - Get The True Rev. Wright Story Out Before Pennsylvania Primary

I have been giving alot of thought to what I could do to help Barack Obama.  I have donated money when I could, even though I live in Michigan, I went to Ohio to volunteer, and I have called MSNBC and emailed them relentlessly to ask them to be fair about their coverage of Rev. Jeremiah Wright.  The other day when Andrea Mitchell was reporting about the latest things that she saw in Jeremiah Wright's church bulletins, I got really angry.  If you will follow me below the fold, I will tell you my idea.  

The media is the 4th estate.  It is their job to report to us the truth, not to selectively decide little bits to tell us.  By omitting the context of Jeremiah Wrights sermons, they told a false story.  By not reporting that the United Church of Christ is a 99% white denomination, they reported a false story.  By not reporting that there are many whites who go to and preach at that church also, they are telling a false story.  The media has presented a story that there are 8,000 people who go to a church and every Sunday hear a man say GOD DAMN AMERICA.  They have ruined the reputation of this man, this church, and by extention the wider Black Church community.
I for one, a hard core Obama supporter, when I heard the snippets they have been playing on the news, I was offended, I didn't think there was a way Barack could explain this, and even though I knew that the soundbites were taken out of context, I didn't see how context would make much difference.  
But then, I saw the full sermons, I read the full text of the Audacity to Hope sermon, and I started crying.  I was so mad that I was lied to, and I was mad that there are a lot of people, not as curious for the truth as I am, who believe everything they hear on the news, who will never know the truth.  
But anyway, back to Mrs. Greenspan, (also known as Andrea Mitchell) the  day that she was reporting that Jeremiah Wright wrote in a bulletin that Italians had "garlic noses,"  I got pissed.
I had the previous hour of MSNBC saved on my DVR, so I decided to write down the list of sponsors.
I realized that calling MSNBC and emailing them and asking them to be fair, wasn't going to work.  I also realized that this story wasn't going to go away, with Scarborough, Buchanan, and all the rest of the losers on Fox news.
I figured the only way to get the full story out, was to threaten MSNBC and their sponsors.  I think we need to tell them that we want the full story of Jeremiah Wright out, that we won't stand for Media bias.  I think that we should pick about 5 companies from this list and pressure them to pressure MSNBC.  
I picked MSNBC because they succumb to pressure fairly quickly as evidenced by Imus, David Schuster, & forcing Chris Matthews to apologize.  I think we should call and email about 5 of these companies everyday.  We should call and write MSNBC everyday, I think we should invite other likeminded people to join us.  We should invite the members of trinity church to joins us, and the greater United Church of Christ community to join us as well.  We need to get the true story out before the Pennsylvania primary.  This is the true story that the media should be promoting.

Detroit News Article
Wright controversy can bridge racial chasm
Judge pastor on his deeds, not a few sermon snippets
William A. Von Hoene Jr.

Excerpts from sermons of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, pastor for more than 35 years at Trinity United Church of Christ, have dominated our discourse about the presidential campaign. Wright has been depicted as a racial extremist or a racist. Political figures and commentators have attempted to use Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama's association with him to call into question Obama's judgment and the sincerity of his commitment to unity.

I have been a member of Trinity, a church with an almost entirely African-American congregation, for more than 25 years. As a white male, I have heard Wright preach about racial inequality, in unvarnished and passionate terms, from a decidedly different perspective.

In his recent speech on racial issues confronting our nation, Obama eloquently observed that Wright's sermons reflect the difficult experiences and frustrations of a generation. We need to understand this dynamic. It also is important that we not let media coverage and political gamesmanship isolate selected remarks by Wright to the exclusion of anything else that might define him more accurately and completely. I find it troubling that we have distilled Wright's 35-year ministry to a few phrases; no context has been explored.

I do have a bit of personal context. About 26 years ago, I became engaged to my wife, who is African American and a member of Trinity. Somewhere between the ring and the altar, my wife broke off the engagement. Her decision was grounded in race: the daughter of parents subjected to unthinkable prejudice, an emerging leader in the young black community who was committed to black causes, how could she marry a white man?

Rev. Wright, whom I had met in passing, found out about my wife's decision. He asked her to "drop everything" and meet with him. He spent four hours explaining that racial divisions were unacceptable, no matter how great or prolonged the pain that caused them. God would not want us to make decisions about people based on race. The world could make progress on issues of race only if people were prepared to break down barriers that were much easier to let stand.

Wright was pretty persuasive; he presided over our wedding a few months later. Since then, I have watched in utter awe as Wright has overseen and constructed a support system for thousands in need on the South Side that is far more effective than any governmental program could approach. And never have I been welcomed more warmly and sincerely than at Trinity. Never.

I hope that as a nation, we take advantage of the opportunity that the recent focus on Wright presents -- to advance our dialogue on race in a meaningful and unprecedented way. To do so, however, we need to appreciate that passion born of difficulty does not always manifest itself in the kind of words with which we are most comfortable. We also need to recognize that the basic goodness of people like Wright is not always packaged conventionally.

The problems of race are immense. But if we sensationalize isolated words for political advantage, casting aside the depth of feeling, circumstances and context that inform them, those problems not only will remain immense, but be insoluble.

William A. Von Hoene Jr. is a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.

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•  Hmm...

  I think we should focus on CNN and Fox first, because they're clearly worse on this issue than MSNBC (even if not by much)...

  by barath on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:55:28 PM PDT

  •  I don't think

    We can change anything at Fox, but, CNN maybe

    by Snickers77 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:58:18 PM PDT

    •  Well, we can use the power of the purse

      If we hit their advertisers hard, they'll respond in kind, and it just takes one big advertiser to make the difference.

      by barath on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:06:42 PM PDT

  •  MSNBC is where Pat Buchanan is

    and it is Buchanan's comments, NOT Wright's,
    that OUGHT to be dominating the news, just
    as surely has Don Imus's did last year.

    by ge0rge on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:31:29 PM PDT

•  You and Obama need to get on the same page.

  Obama put Wright's comments into context while critiquing them.  You find nothing worthy of crotique in Wright's comments.  There's a big gap between these two views.  

  by Rich in PA on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:55:47 PM PDT

  •  Obama did not put Wright's comments

    into the context of the sermons themselves. Rather he put the presumed message from Wright into the context of American History. Since he had not been in Church on the days those particular sermons were given, he could not put them into their actual proper context and defend them, nor should he have to. He is running for president and is not Wright's attorney. We, on the other hand, as his supporters owe it to him and to Trinity to let the truth be known. If you have not seen the sermons in context, you owe it to yourself, Obama and Wright to do so and judge for yourself whether you think the whole sermons are offensive. I'm not saying you won't hear things you won't agree with or even things you may find provocative, but I think you can't help but see that the image that has been painted of Wright is wholly and utterly false and worse yet fabricated.

    You can see the clips of the statements in their full context here.
    

    by sly1171 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:34:10 PM PDT

    •  well said

      For some people this is just about Obama. They don't see that Wright, his church, everyone who goes there, and even all black churches have been wronged too.

      I like Obama, and I agree with him much more than Wright. But, the problem, in my eyes is what they have done to Wright. (Not just to Obama.)

      They are vastly different men. I respect both of them, but for different reasons.

      by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:45:50 PM PDT

    •  Amen!! need to expose and defuse these ..

      Amen! we need to expose these distortions and lies that have painted Rev. Wright as some white-hating maniac who was actually wishing for the destruction of his country - USA.

      This smear attack on Obama has to be de-fanged not only for this primary but more importantly for the general election where it can be used to swiftboat Obama!!

      I was also struck that TUCC is a member of a national church that is 99% white. In addition there are many white ministers and religious leaders some who have known him for many years, who have stood up to defend Rev. Wright.

      Below I'm pasting a YouTube video that is an example of this.

      "Two white visit Trinity UCC to defend Rev. Wright"
      

      by SpringFever on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:14:15 PM PDT

  •  There is nothing wrong with this gap

    Obama put Wright's comments into context while critiquing them.  You find nothing worthy of crotique in Wright's comments.

    Neither did Obama.  Neither do you.
    Neither does anybody, because Wright has NOT
    been criticized for his VIEWS.  Wright has been
    criticized for telling inconvenient TRUTHS.
    When you learn the DIFFERENCE between a VIEW and
    a FACT, GET BACK to us.

     There's a big gap between these two views.

    Indeed there is, but different people are SUPPOSED
    to have different views.  And Obama and Wright
    do NOT need to get on the same page.  Obama is
    running for President, not prophet.  These are
    different roles.  I hope I live to see the day
    when somebody who is WILLING to tell the people
    the truth has enough FUNDING to be ABLE to tell
    them the truth.  But that day is not yet and
    Obama is not that somebody.
    Since Obama cannot tell this truth, it is even
    more incumbent upon those of us who do NOT have
    the excuse of needing to win a presidential election
    to keep on telling it.

    by ge0rge on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:29:32 PM PDT

•  Great post!

  by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:56:43 PM PDT

•  I've already contacted MSNBC & CNN

  about taking those short clips out of context. FOX, of course, is hopeless.  I encouraged them to further investigate and, as the responsible journalists they claim to be, show BOTH sides of the issue. I sent them links to some of Wright's peace,
  love and unity sermons. That was last week - nothing but crickets since.

  by moose67 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:59:48 PM PDT

  •  I'm so glad

    that some people are taking this seriously.

    by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:03:17 PM PDT

  •  me 2

    I've sent multiple emails on this topic.  Last time, I sent one to Anderson Cooper suggesting he do a special on race and religion, and fix the damage CNN has done to the reputation of Trinity and other black churchs.

    Roland Martin did a blog on fuller context regarding Wright, but I don't think it made it on TV.

    by loralei on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:18:43 PM PDT

•  Race Baiting Sells

  The media is gorging itself on this. CNN & MSNBC etc.
  When America gets tired it will change until then they feed the hatred.

  by kiki236 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:01:40 PM PDT

•  ah jeez

  nothing bothers a good Dem like a controversy going away.

  by ksh01 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:16:43 PM PDT

•  No offense, but LET THIS DIE

  Let the story die, let Reverend Wright disappear. This is not the albatross we need around our necks right now, and I'm sorry, but MSNBC could give you a full hour of airtime to yourself and you're not going to convince a single person who's seen this guy in a YouTube clip that his association with Obama is in ANY way good for Obama's campaign.

  Let it go; it may not be our worst nightmare, but it's pretty damned close.

  by kenboy on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:22:45 PM PDT

  •  Sometimes if you win at any cost

    you don't win at all.

    by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:26:30 PM PDT

    •  There's no win here.

      The guy's on YouTube saying absolutely indefensible things. There is NO WAY to turn this into a positive.

      by kenboy on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:29:08 PM PDT

      •  It's not about

        What he's said in sound bytes, it's about who he is and --why on earth should he have been smeared like this in media? You could make almost anyone look like a loon by doing what they did.

        by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:35:23 PM PDT

        •  It's NOT ABOUT WRIGHT AT ALL.

          It's about Barack Obama having a spiritual mentor (and someone involved in his campaign) who, regardless of who he is, has said some incredibly offensive things -- things that the spiritual mentors of people running for president can't say.

          I understand, contextually, the idea behind his words -- America has treated some of its citizens shamefully from day one, and continues to do so -- I agree with the concept -- but the words he chose to say it were so horribly mis-selected as to make it an unrecoverable error. Keeping this story alive doesn't help Wright, and doesn't help Obama. It very clearly does help other presidential candidates, though.

          by kenboy on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:46:08 PM PDT

          •  You mean black people running for

            president because clearly that's not the standard white politicians are held to.

            He talked about blowback, imperialism and racism. People writes books about those things all of the time. They are not controversial topics.

            by JayGR on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:56:10 PM PDT

            •  He said "God damn America." End of story.

              by kenboy on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:05:53 PM PDT

              •  Are YOU upset by that...

                ...even in context?

                Or are you just fretting about how other people might be upset?

                by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:07:49 PM PDT

                •  I'm upset because it took us off message.

                  First of all, it's not fretting. Fretting implies that I'm worried about the hypothetical impact it might have. It genuinely DID offend people, real people, including people who were backing Obama.

                  His speech on race went a long way to defusing this, and I'm glad he gave the speech, but I wish he didn't have to do so under these circumstances. The whole thing took us off message, put us on defense, and changed the media narrative of the primary contest for more than a week.

                  My personal view, as someone who largely identifies as Catholic, is that I can't control what my spiritual leaders say, and I don't always agree with it.

                  I'm also not running for President.

                  by kenboy on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:29:04 PM PDT

                  •  I think you have to decide what's more important

                    to you- what's the best use of your energy:  clearing Jeremiah Wright's reputation or getting Barack Obama elected.  

                    I heard some great things in some of Wright's sermons, but I also heard some things that are repulsive to alot of people.   You can think that they're wrong for feeling that way- and you may be right in some cases- but for many Americans, the phrase "God Damn America" is a deal breaker no matter in what context it's said.  You may say (and I agree) that what happened on 9/11 was somewhat due to other wrongs done by the United States.  Again- many Americans don't want to hear that.  Keep hitting people with that and all that you're going to do is make them reject Wright more, and think even moreso "What what the hell was Obama doing listening to this guy for 20 years? Enough with these crazy Democrats and Progressives- I'm going to McCain land where everything is safe as milk".    

                    And whatever you want to say about Wright's pluses, for most white people, hearing an angry African American guy yelling about how America is run and owned by 'rich white people' is a turnoff.  Is it a true statement? Yes. But that doesn't mean they want to hear that (or for that matter that the U.S. should be the "U.S.-KKK-A"), and if they believe the person saying that is associated with a candidate that wants their vote, they keep on walking by.

                    Trying to elect a non-white Presidential candidate is hard enough with at the same time trying to get people to accept their government should own some responsibilty for 9/11 or God Damn America or for the injustices done to non-white people.  

                    So again- focus on what your objective is.  If it is getting Obama elected, consider that his campaign has handled this well so far and they know what they're doing.   If they want people to picket MSNBC or CNN, you'll hear from them.

                    by brueso on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:23:57 PM PDT

              •  It needs to be situated within History

                Check this!

                by Gene12 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:37:22 PM PDT

          •  total context

            I agree with the concept -- but the words he chose to say it were so horribly mis-selected as to make it an unrecoverable error.

            In the context of his church the words are fine. Must everyone who knows Obama be perfect in the eyes of white America or he won't be good enough?

            by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:56:47 PM PDT

            •  OK, I'm done.

              I'm sorry I'm incapable of believing that there's a church in this country not run by Fred Phelps where "God damn America" is acceptable rhetoric.

              Look, it's fine with me you have a personal connection to Wright, but it seems like the way he is seen is more important to you than Barack Obama's presidency. It isn't to me, not by a long shot. Wright said something ridiculous, just like Geraldine Ferraro said something ridiculous. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd like Wright to disappear for the next few months, just like I suspect plenty of Clinton supporters hope Geraldine Ferraro keeps away from the reporters at the Daily Breeze for a while.

              Good luck in your quest to keep this ridiculous issue alive.

              by kenboy on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:05:16 PM PDT

          •  You're the one who's offensive

            It's about Barack Obama having a spiritual mentor (and someone involved in his campaign) who, regardless of who he is, has said some incredibly offensive things

            Obama, living to fight another day, has already
            conceded (falsely) that these things were offensive.
            You and I, kenboy, are not running for president
            and do NOT have to worry about losing popularity
            by getting into an ugly argument.  If YOU are going
            to call these things offensive then YOU HAVE TO
            EXPLAIN WHY they are offensive.  ALL DECENT PEOPLE
            are offended by the actions OF AMERICA that Rev.
            Wright was decrying.  Does this or does this not
            include you personally?  If it does then you really
            need to SHUT UP about how offensive Rev.Wright was
            and concentrate on atoning for how offensive AMERICA
            has been.
            Yes, kenboy, you MAY START by kis.........

            by ge0rge on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:04:32 PM PDT

            •  "concentrate on atoning for how offensive America

              has been".

              Gee, if Barack would only make that a campaign slogan, imagine how many non-progressives in America will flock to his campaign.  

              by brueso on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:27:23 PM PDT

              •  he'd still beat nader!

                but not by much.  

                by bobisbob on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:47:31 PM PDT

        •  I think kenboy's right on this.

          If my pastor spent twenty years preaching the good word but one day decided to launch into how the jews killed Jesus, had funny noses and smelled bad, I would run for zee hills and take my political ambitions with me. So Wright either wrote or ok'd it for print with italians (who didn't exist as a country or a people) instead of jews, doesn't matter. He is a liability (and a loon).

          by the fan man on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:46:18 PM PDT

          •  ...

            but one day decided to launch into how the jews killed Jesus, had funny noses and smelled bad, I would run for zee hills and take my political ambitions with me.

            Yeah but that's not comparable to what Wright said at all.

            He is a liability (and a loon).

            Yes, to Obama. But he is an asset and anchor to his community. And he deserves more respect than this. It's not his fault Obama decided to go to his church and then run for president.

            by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:51:35 PM PDT

            •  I can't find the full eulogy, I'm pondering

              what context either his garlic remarks (or ok'd by him) are anything other than lunacy or racism. I'm offended not as an Italian, but as a rational being. Obama put him on his election team, he could have cut the cord when he decided to run, no harm, no foul.
              I've stated this in another diary, Wright, along with his right wing brethren are poster children for the separation of church and state. Most preachers say America is damned for homosexuality and rap music, he is at least taking a more liberal tact to damning, but I find it all pretty ridiculous.

              by the fan man on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:06:29 PM PDT

              •  Maybe you should find it first.

                I can't find the full eulogy, I'm pondering
                what context either his garlic remarks (or ok'd by him)

                Calling the crucifixion "lynching,Italian-style"
                IS NOT insulting.
                Normally Italians are PROUD of the achievements
                of the Roman empire.  And the Jews and the Romans
                DID kill Jesus.  Nobody has to leave anywhere JUST
                for pointing that out.  Obviously everything depends
                on what you are trying to USE that factoid for.
                The mere fact that you mentioned it all is NOT
                BY ITSELF anti- anybody.

                by ge0rge on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:01:12 PM PDT

                •  and you're ok with "Romans looked down their

                  garlic noses at the Galileans", too?  

                  The thing that pisses people off the most is when other people tell them they shouldn't be offended.

                  by brueso on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:29:54 PM PDT

                •  It is frightening that intelligent people do

                  mental gymnastics to justify racist claptrap. Not surprising, just frightening. Had he talked about the jews and their large money sniffing semetic noses, maybe you would understand.

                  by the fan man on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 04:26:22 AM PDT

          •  But he didn't do that.

            He talked about racism and imperialism. If white people are uncomfortable with conversations about racism then they need to work harder at making America a non-racist place.

            by JayGR on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:57:15 PM PDT

            •  I was refering to the eulogy printed in

              the Trumpet. Is there some context I'm missing?

              by the fan man on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:15:10 PM PDT

              •  I missed that.

                What eulogy?

                by JayGR on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:55:18 PM PDT

                •  Dec 2007 "And the Romans looked down their garlic

                  noses at the Galileans" was one of the lines.

                  by brueso on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:31:34 PM PDT

                  •  Romans? Galilieans? That can't be a current

                    reference.

                    by JayGR on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:03:21 AM PDT

      •  I take it you've only seen the clips

        and have not viewed the entire sermons in their full. If you did, you would see that the clips are a sore misrepresentation of what he actually said.
        For instance, the 911 sermon, where you see him say America's chickens are coming home to roost! the clip gives the impression that he is quoting Malcolm X and is implying that America deserved what happened on 911. He wasn't. If you watch the full sermon, you'll see that he was quoting a former Reagan official who had said that and much more on FOX News a few nights prior. Wrights sermon, though, was actually a call to caution against the overwhelming desire for revenge, violence and hatred that many of us felt at that time. He was saying that payback is not always the answer, but rather that the event was an opportunity for us as Christians to examine our own relationship with God. It really was a perfectly mainstream sermon, but you'd never know that from just seeing the 10 sec. sound bite they played on YouTube and the news.

        You can see the clips of the statements in their full context here.
        

        by sly1171 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:43:53 PM PDT

        •  I was shocked to find this out too

          I've never seen such a blatant smear campaign in my life time. The racial undertones that keep it alive are sickening. This is one of the most important and respected Churches in the country and it's been hammered in to the gutter to make a political "point" that has no substance.

          by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:48:24 PM PDT

        •  It doesn't matter.

          There's no context that you can explain to the vast majority of Americans to make "God damn America" OK, ever.

          It's not just a losing argument, it's an election-losing one. Let it go, let it die, let the clips go away. Let someone else's albatross drag them down for a while.

          by kenboy on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:48:57 PM PDT

          •  no...

            It's not just a losing argument, it's an election-losing one.

            To me this is just accepting that it's fine to hold a black candidate to a higher standard-- I mean isn't that what this is doing? So everyone has to suck up this abuse and walk on egg shells and abstain from traditional black preaching lest we spoil it for Obama?

            No way. That's not worth it. I'll vote for Keys is that's what I want.

            by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:54:27 PM PDT

            •  I hold everyone to this standard

              Unless you're telling me that saying "God Damn America" is common practice in "traditional black preaching," I don't see where this standard of mine is any different for any candidate, regardless of his or her race.

              by kenboy on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:57:55 PM PDT

              •  If there is a God, God most certainly would

                damn America. That's biblical talk. Church goers know this. God literally damned people and places for violating God's rules.

                by JayGR on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:59:10 PM PDT

                •  Exactly

                  This is a minister of the faith talking.  When he says "God damn American" he's not saying "fuck you America", he's talking about the damnation of God coming down on America's head, the same way the Old Testament prophets came out of the desert / down from the mountain / out of the wilderness and ripped the Children of Israel a new one for worshiping graven images, fornicating and adultering, being inhospitable to strangers, or whatever offenses they had been committing.  The idea that this was said as an expletive is ludicrous.

                  by dsteffen on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:05:48 PM PDT

                  •  Good luck explaining that to anyone.

                    Maybe Obama should make ads explaining that, it sounds like a surefire winner to me. "You see, 'God Damn America,' when a minister says it, it's OK!"

                    I feel like I'm in a room full of people who think "I was for it before I was against it" was a masterful, election-winning quote, if only we could explain it properly. It was a ridiculous thing to say, a fatal thing for someone connected with a campaign to say, and it needs to disappear already.

                    by kenboy on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:08:58 PM PDT

                    •  asdf

                      I feel like I'm in a room full of people who think "I was for it before I was against it" was a masterful, election-winning quote, if only we could explain it properly.

                      I don't think the Kerry campaign ever made mush of an effort to explain that remark.  I think they just tried to let ir die, hoping it would go away.  

                      How'd that work out for us?

                      by dsteffen on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:25:11 PM PDT

                    •  Luck explaining "God damn America"

                      I think we'll have GOOD luck explaining it,
                      for the sole and simple reason that THE RIGHT
                      WING DOES IT ALL THE TIME.  Anybody who has been
                      paying attention does not even NEED this explained
                      to them because THEY'VE SEEN IT DONE BEFORE, as
                      when the late Jerry Falwell tried to call 9/11
                      God's punishment of this nation for tolerating
                      abortion and homosexuality.  Wright at least
                      qualified it with "as long as She acts like",
                      underscoring HIS OWN FAITH that America COULD
                      act DIFFERENTLY and avoid judgment.  The right
                      wing by contrast thinks that judgment is already
                      occurring.

                      Your commentary on this isn't just contrarian,
                      kenboy.  It's flat-out ignorant.  The fact that
                      you think you are speaking for a majority of
                      Americans does NOT change that.

                      by ge0rge on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:57:17 PM PDT

                    •  Something like 80% of Americans

                      claim to be Christian. Doesn't seem like it would be too hard for a Christian to understand.

                      by JayGR on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:21:36 PM PDT

                      •  so you want to school them on what being

                        Christian really is?

                        Are you actually interested in getting a candidate elected?

                        by brueso on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:44:22 PM PDT

                        •  now THERE'S lifetime employment n/t

                          by Hard to Port on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 05:58:21 AM PDT

                        •  It doesn't seem like you'd have to

                          school them. Seems like they'd know it as soon as you said it.

                          I'm interested in not selling out my people. That being African-Americans, the most loyal group of Democrats. You should probably be interested in that to since a Dem can't get elected without us.

                          by JayGR on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:59:16 AM PDT

              •  It's like music.

                It builds up and builds down. It's almost like the pastor is having a conversation with himself. You can't take a little snippet of it literally.

                I do think he should apologize to Hillary for insulting her-- That was the one thing I objected to. He should not have gone that far--

                by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:02:33 PM PDT

              •  You can't hold anyone to any standard

                Relly, kenboy, come on.
                Black candidates don't come along
                OFTEN enough for you to have a GENERAL
                policy.  The stuff Rev.Wright is talking
                about is COMMON KNOWLEDGE among people
                who actually KNOW anything about American
                foreign policy. It IS NOT controversial.
                It is just the factual history of the case.
                Would you personally EVER damn ANY country
                for ANY action?  What is your global standard
                for THAT, huh?
                If you would, you WILL find your OWN country
                guilty.  That is one reason WHY the religion
                within which this is happening warns its adherents,
                "judge not, lest ye be judged".

                by ge0rge on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:54:23 PM PDT

          •  Really?

            Americans are stupid then.

            MLK said God would punish America for imperialism. Should we take away his holiday?

            by JayGR on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:58:01 PM PDT

            •  Sigh.

              "God Bless America," ridiculous as it may be, is a constant refrain in this country, whether made by preachers or politicians. We hear it somewhere pretty much every day. For some reason, we sing a song about it at ball games. Lee Greenwood's awful song about it still gets played (and covered on American Idol.) Like it or not, it's a powerful American image.

              Going out of your way to outright negate that phrase, that image, is not a smart move for anyone in the political arena.

              MLK didn't say "God damn America." What he said was entirely different, didn't go directly against that image, and, incidentally, as far as I know, he wasn't serving as an adviser to a political campaign when he said it.

              by kenboy on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:15:52 PM PDT

              •  You hardly understand MLK

                Or Rev.Wright either, for that matter.

                MLK didn't say "God damn America." What he said was entirely different, didn't go directly against that image,

                Rev.Wright did not say "God damn America."
                Not WITH A PERIOD AT THE END, like YOU wrote it.
                It was in the MIDDLE of a sentence, and the sentence
                CONTINUED: "...America, for As Long As She acts like she is
                God and she is supreme."  He did NOT imply that
                America would ALWAYS be doing this, or was incapable
                of change.  Christians are ALWAYS hoping and praying
                that sinners will repent and be SAVED.

                When Obama said that Wright's mistake was that Wright
                didn't think America could change, OBAMA WAS JUST
                LYING about him.  So, for that matter, are you, kenboy.

                by ge0rge on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:51:44 PM PDT

              •  We also hear right wingers

                constantly saying God is Damning America for various things. Seems like America only freaks out if it's a black dude.

                Damning is punishing. Same thing.

                by JayGR on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:23:44 PM PDT

              •  The refrain "God Bless America" is different

                MLK didn't say "God damn America." What he said was entirely different, didn't go directly against that image, and, incidentally, as far as I know, he wasn't serving as an adviser to a political campaign when he said it.

                First, of all, he didn't say it using those exact words, but he said plenty of things that were in a similar vein. Second, Wright wasn't serving as an adviser to a political campaign when he made his sermon either. It was delivered April 13, 2003, before Obama even ran for the US Senate.
                Finally, "God Bless America" has been bandied about so much in this country that it's been taken for granted that God will bless America just because we're America. The problem with that notion is that it's not biblically based at all. God did not bless the Hebrews just because they were His chosen people. They had to remain in His will to earn blessing and he cursed, or damned, them on multiple occasions when they got too full of themselves and forgot that He was supreme.
                That being said, you also have to realize that when the founding fathers said "God Bless America" it was more of a plea than a statement. They were all too conscious of the notion that they had to earn God's blessing by doing the right thing. They weren't perfect, and as such we have things like the constitutional provision defining slaves as 3/5 of a person, but they at least were trying to please God to earn his blessing. We've become so arrogant today that we think God owes us His blessing, and whosoever dares disagree must be a hate-monger and anti American. It's a preposterous notion and we'd better get over ourselves because pride comes before the fall.

                by sly1171 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:49:32 PM PDT

          •  No context to the "God Damn America"?

            From Kenboy upthread: There's no context that you can explain to the vast majority of Americans to make "God damn America" OK, ever.

            YES! There IS!

            And it needs to be put out there ... somehow.

            by Gene12 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:41:53 PM PDT

          •  The issue IS NOT "the vast majority" of Americans

            The issue is JUST YOU,fool.  YOU ALONE
            are responsible for YOUR opinion and YOUR
            reaction.  You may LEAVE "the vast majority
            of Americans" to the campaign that actually
            HAS a million dollars/day to REACH them.

            Do you really think America has NOT done anything
            WORTHY of getting itself judged, in the biblical
            sense, as a nation?  Do you really think people
            who voted AGAINST the government doing these
            things are going to call the nation innocent?

            by ge0rge on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:47:12 PM PDT

      •  Some things perhaps. Others

        were easily defensible. Blowback, imperialism and racism are not supposed to be controversial topics for Democrats.

        by JayGR on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:54:57 PM PDT

        •  as soon as we start caving on this one

          ...a lot of other things will go with it!

          I understand that Obama can't stand up for Wright any more than he has. But, WE CAN because we know unfairness when we see and because we care. It helps send a message to keep these attacks from being OK in the future.

          by futurebird on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:59:12 PM PDT

          •  I bet you that you could email Hannity and tell

            him you want to be on his show to explain why Jeremiah Wright has been wronged.   He would welcome that.   So would Rush Limbaugh.  Because they wouldn't listen to you, and they'd mock you, and the angrier you got, the more fringe you (and- Obama- because they're forever refer to you as "the typical Obama supporter") would appear.    The very idea of this would probably give them both a woody.  Their dream is to have people talk about Jeremiah Wright AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

             

            by brueso on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:01:05 PM PDT

      •  Not necessarily turning into a positive but ...

        Take the HIV/AIDS issue, for example, there is quite a lot out there that would have influenced Reverend Jeremiah Wright. There was the documentary based on Edward Hooper's The River: Journey to the Source of AIDS that a while back was shown on CBC. You can watch an excerpt here.

        See also this excellent discussion on the HIV AIDS topic in Rev. Wright's sermon.

        There are nuances and context here and the media is not doing its job of properly informing the public. Not that I'm surprised or anything.

        by Gene12 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:34:54 PM PDT

        •  Context ...

          The above was in response to Kenboy upthread who wrote: There's no win here. The guy's on YouTube saying absolutely indefensible things. There is NO WAY to turn this into a positive.

          by Gene12 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:47:37 PM PDT

      •  Nothing Rev.Wright has said...

        ...is "absolutely" indefensible.
        The fact that people have been shitting all over
        you for generations IS a defense.
        That sort of thing DOES tend to disturb one's
        equilibrium.  You had damn well better QUOTE
        something "indefensible" and EXPLAIN WHY it is
        indefensible if you are going  to KEEP persecuting
        this prophet.

        by ge0rge on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:45:00 PM PDT

        •  you think Jeremiah Wright is a prophet?

          by brueso on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:02:24 PM PDT

  •  No offense taken.......

    I see your point, and I agree to a certain extent.  The only problem with just letting this die, is that Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and Joe Scarborough aren't going to let this die.  We are going to hear about it everyday until the election.  I don't presume that the truth will change many minds.  But if it changes 1% that could be a big difference.

    by Snickers77 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:09:02 PM PDT

•  I have written Chris Mathews and MSNBC

  I won't watch Chris again, I don't watch Joe Scarborough.  This was my point to them, if they can have Pat Buchanan with his racist blog from last Friday, then they have no business talking about Barak Obama church.  Guilt by association than they are guilty to.  Sean Hannity is still at it, he has been tied to Hal Turner and some other guy now, but I don't waste my time with them, there to ignorant and probably don't know how to read an email, let alone open one.

  I agree if you don't whine and threaten they will never get the point, there not journalist anymore, they are like going to the grocery store, standing in line and seeing the tabloids.  They are no differnt.

  by pjbamerica on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:32:55 PM PDT

•  You can always help us!

  We would love for you to help our cause too! www.marchforobama.com

  by nickinohio on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:49:46 PM PDT

  •  I live in Michigan

    I don't think I can make it, but I plan on going to Indiana and volunteering.

    by Snickers77 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:16:10 PM PDT

•  I have posted the full Youtubes

  Of the excerpted speeches on my local discussion forum, and several people have already watched the full videos giving context to the soundbytes, and with the exception of those hardline right-wingers who never would have voted for Obama anyway, the people who watched the videos were reassured and better informed, not only about the UCC Church but about Wright and what Obama finds of value in his ministry.

  Those videos, which were distributed by Trinity UCC in 'The Truth About Trinity' really are powerful tools.  Link to them, and show them to those you know who are voting, and it will open a lot of minds!

  http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/

  by louisev on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:55:05 PM PDT

•  Put the full Wright sermon on YouTube

  ... and let people see for themselves how lame the news coverage is.

  Your real problem is that lots of people WANT to see the divisive coverage because it lets them nurse their secret prejudices.

  Ultimately the only way to combat this is to empower lots of people to speak up in everyday conversation and say with authority that the MSM has misrepresented Wright's sermons, and refer people to YouTube to see for themselves.

  When are we going to just admit that political pamphlets need to make a comeback? Once the MSM realizes that too many people can see through them, they'll shape up. But not a moment before, and they'll probably hold out some time after, out of denial.

  by toddpw on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:55:45 PM PDT

•  This is the wrong way to deal with this

  controversy. I dont care if he's being treated unfairly or not. Theres a difference between the truth or what you think the truth is and how something plays politically. People/voters dont want to hear excuses or explanations for Wrights remarks and his philosophy. Obama should have just said he stayed in that church for 20 years because Wright made him a christian and he felt loyalty because of that. He's dug himself a hole now though that I doubt he's going to be able to get out of. I dont know if it'll cost him the election or not.

  That was the way to deal with it though. He should have just said he disagrees with alot of what Wright says, but stayed because Wrights the one that brought him to Christ. People would have accepted that. Its too late for that now though.

  by DigDug on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:59:34 PM PDT

  •  No, as usual our man's got it right

    Look at the latest polls--the man pulled it off. He's up, Hillary's down, Hillary's negatives are up. He's lost the people he wasn't going to get anyway and kept the rest.

    Where you're right is that he can't spend more time justifying Rev Wright. But we can. He would look like he was making excuses.

    I think more effective than threatening a boycott is just to get as much of Wright's speeches out there as we can. The more people hear his real message, the less of an issue they'll have with BO's relationship with him.

    by dogsbody on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:10:44 PM PDT

    •  It has only worked within the democratic

      primaries with democratic voters. I dont think it has worked as well with independents and swing voters. Polls do show he's now taken the lead on Hillary, but he's still losing to McCain in the general and in important swing states, losing by much larger margins than before the Wright controversy.

      Im also trying to project out to the general election, and I dont think the way he has handled this (Rev Wright) will keep it from coming back. He's still making excuses for Rev Wright and trying to defend him in part, and I dont think that is going to work. Thats what he did on The View yesterday, I think thats a big mistake.

      by DigDug on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:23:42 PM PDT

      •  Dems & independents

        Read the polls--1/3 of repubs and over 1/2 of independents think he handled it well.

        by dogsbody on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:48:37 PM PDT