Daily Kos

I've Decided to Vote for Barack in the WV Primary

Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:35:20 AM PDT

I have been struggling for almost a year now in the primary season that never ends to decide how to cast my primary vote.   My general election vote has never been in doubt- I will vote, donate and campaign for the candidate who emerges from the selection process.  Frankly, I never believed my vote would matter that much.  In 1960 the West Virginia Primary led to John F. Kennedy's nomination, but we have been late and irrelevant for quite some time.  

So finally, I have decided to vote for Barack Obama in the primary.  My reason for doing so is ultimately his electability.  Hillary Clinton is now unelectable vs. McCain, so I will throw my one vote to Obama, to stave off the landslide for Clinton which will emerge from West Virginia. Obama's failure to convince West Virginia voters is foreshadowing the very real difficulties he will have in winning the presidency. I will discuss the issues which are swaying voters in my State towards Clinton.

Sorry if this support isn't as gracious as it could be, but frankly, I only made up my mind after a week away from this site.  Folks here have focussed on this election is a very negative and sexist way- yesterday's Bros before Hoes Diary is one such example.  This individual had to ask if this tee-shirt was racist or sexist or both.  Sure- that needed discussion.  There was a good rejection of this sort of humor which encouraged me.  But the Hillary is a Witch and other derogatory comments are not worthy of the sort of campaign that Obama has been trying to run.  I would like to vote for a woman candidate, but I want to vote for a candidate who can be elected.    

West Virginia regularly elects state Democrats while voting for Republicans for President.  McCain will almost certainly take the state- folks here consider themselves independent and admire his record of courage as a prisoner of war, military service and service in the Senate.  Bill Clinton was popular in West Virginia- he took the state twice.  Hillary Clinton is viewed as strong for unions, and she impressed many on a recent visit with veterans, taking questions.  Trust me- she will win the primary by a wide margin.

Obama will have a hard time getting elected here in either the Primary or the General Election because he is widely considered to be unpatriotic.  The flag pin was a huge mistake and so was the Pledge of Allegiance Rumor.  Obama's wife compounded the problem and now the constant bombardment with Obama's pastor saying "God Damn America."  This plays very poorly here and nothing Obama has done to date has had any significant impact.  

Hillary's "misremembering" the Bosnia visit will only drive people to support McCain, the real "hero" in the general election.  The recent McCain ad, showing him in old TV broadcasts as a prisoner in Viet Nam is cutting right to the heart of why Obama is unlikely to win in West Virginia and quite possibly the United States.  McCain is the hero and no one seems to want to replay the "swift boat" mess by actually questioning  why we were in Viet Nam.

So why, given my extreme pessimism and my overall preference for Hillary Clinton's positions am I voting for Obama in West Virgina?

Because he is the best chance we have for a successful candidate nationally.  I like his staying above the fray.  I like his speech on race- it was a good strategy to go right to America and talk about advancing the dialog on race.  He has a strong feminist wife and comes from a strongly feminist family.   He doesn't say sexist demeaning things about Clinton himself and the advisor who said such things left the campaign.  Taking the high road and emphasizing issues is the only way to defeat McCain.  I think focussing on jobs and energy and regulation of the industry of finance will play well in this state.  He can also address the issues of patriotism- and I wish he would adopt Clinton or Edward's health care plan.  His is far too incremental for real change.  That said, his middle of the road approach will scare less Republicans.  Nationally, Obama will do better if more people vote for him in my primary.  So I am adding my vote to narrow the gap and support his candidacy.  My spouse is also committed to Obama, although the 3 AM ad really convinced him more than anything else.

And a final plea- move on from the constant nasty campaigning and let the process work.  Let the primaries go forward and let people reach their own conclusions- you could be astonished at the results.  This site has driven off many people and replaced them with people participating in full contact campaigning.  I tire of the boring sameness of diary after diary on the same topic- why Hillary supporters are bad or emotional or sexist or hurt- with no one left to challenge these statements.  It is a dull echo chamber and it is not working to get Obama elected.  The national news and polls convinced me to vote for Obama in the primary, not anyone here.  

It will take a lot of effort to get Obama elected, and the time has come to address McCain and his policies.  We better be prepared to NOT run an nasty campaign against McCain- but to stick to issues and not personality, looks, or his wife and children.  Obama is correct that America is tired of that sort of campaign.  I am tired of that sort of campaign and if the next 7 months keep it up, Obama will lose in many purple states including West Virginia.  If Obama runs on his ideas and his character as he is doing, he has a chance of winning the election, and he has my vote.  

If Senator Byrd strongly campaigns for Obama or Joe Manchin (our popular governor), this would make a difference in the general election.  Rockefeller and Rahall have already endorsed Obama.

Tags: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, West Virginia, Primary, 2008 (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 78 comments

  •  Huzzah! (8+ / 0-)

    That's how you do it, one vote at a time.  Welcome aboard!  Now go and speak with friends and family; let's see if we can pick up a few more votes.  

    "The man and the hour have met!" Ladies and gentlemen, the next President of the United States, Barack Obama!

    by PittsburghPete on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:37:46 AM PDT

    •  I think my family have all voted.... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      democrattotheend, SnowCountry

      and I can't talk to students.  I assure you, as a strong feminist, the attacks on Clinton are backfiring.  Let it simmer down and let Gallup do your talking.  That plus that horrid John McCain ad.

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

      by murrayewv on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:42:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't get this (8+ / 0-)

        I'm 57 years old, white female and a feminist, and I don't see how attacks against Clinton that are founded in her record or misrepresentation of her record, are anti-feminist.  Just because she's a woman?  I honestly don't understand that.  I have never regarded Hillary as a strong feminist, and the Clintons pretty readily threw feminists under the bus.  I think her name recognition is its own form of affirmative action.  

        But what does make me bristle is, every time something negative is brought out about HIllary, it's because we're attacking all women and feminists.  It's a cheap counter-attack.  Obama has NEVER said anything sexist about Hillary.  And don't bring up the word "periodically".  That was the silliest thing I'd ever heard.  

        I'm hoping all those votes have been plummed already.  

        •  Obama never did.... (2+ / 0-)

          I stated that in my diary.  It is people here who attack Hillary in sexist terms who make me feel protective of her.  And of course the newsreaders and pundits.  But I shouldn't be protective of my candidate- she should be able to stand on her own or he should stand on his own.  Obama impressed me when he addressed the pastor issue head-on.  I liked the speech and I liked the fact that he came from a somewhat radical church.  When people attacked Obama on this, it elicited the same protective impulse in me that I had for Hillary.  But I think he dealt with the issue better.

          You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

          by murrayewv on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:19:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Isn't Rockefeller our Telcom Amnesty guy? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    murrayewv, followyourbliss

    Hmm. Wonder what he knows about this Obama guy's position on Privacy.

    Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

    by ROGNM on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:38:32 AM PDT

  •  Excellent decision!. What can he do in WV (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mayan, murrayewv

    to connect with people there...?
    Every state has it's own ethos...and you would know what might help.

    •  Wear a flag pin..... (7+ / 0-)

      Give a speech at the convention about the flag and the country and what it means to him and then put on the pin.  Make people weep with emotion.  Stick to the high road and build on being a president for everyone and especially, a family man.

      He can make it close if Iraq goes bad (which sadly it seems to be doing).  People here are patriotic but not stupid, and McCain is really wrong on Iraq.  Byrd's endorsement there would help, since Byrd was one of the strongest critics early on for the war.  McCain is wrong on the economy- and advocating regulation of big business will play well with little people.  

      McCain is wrong on energy.  The Obama ad where he is in the gas station and talks about energy as a strong issue in the White House will play VERY well here.  People are suffering- our wages are low and we drive long distances to get to work.  Gas prices are driving up the cost of keeping a job.  We want energy research in the state to make coal cleaner and safer.  Also, McCain didn't support the minimum wage hike.  That could be played very effectively.

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

      by murrayewv on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:51:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  yes, see my comment below (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        murrayewv, la urracca

        and help me drive the truth about MCains energy votes up the google.

      •  the flag pin thing is interesting (4+ / 0-)

        I'm not sure it would help this late in the game, since it would obviously be spun as transparently political by his adversaries. But sometimes these things are so symbolic that some people would prefer a nakedly political display of patriotism to a principled rejection of having to wear a symbol in order to prove one's patriotism, if that makes sense.

        My sense is that Obama would like to steer the conversation to a different discussion of what it means to be "patriotic"--I suspect that what he believes, and certainly what his campaign is based on is an idea of patriotism that celebrates all those "yes we can" moments, some that would have made it into history books prior to the 50s and some that would not. And his "only in America" message about himself is deeply moving to me, but I do suspect that some voters (esp. older Republicans) still wish his story weren't possible in America. There are competing visions about what it means to be "American", but the one that usually wins out at the presidential level is of small towns and apple pie and flags and 4th of July parades. I doubt Obama can change this narrative much as he's running his campaign and will have to appropriate it in some way. However, if he does become president, he can go some way in allowing a different vision of patriotism (one not so dependent on flag pins) to take hold.

        Barack Obama will only become president if enough people pay attention, so pay attention, dammit!

        by JMS on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:11:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  People here have big 4th of July celebrations.... (4+ / 0-)

          I have even thought of sending Obama my mother-in-law's flag pin from WWII.  Remembering when our country was really under attack and patriotism meant something different.

          You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

          by murrayewv on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:15:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's an interesting idea as well (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            biscobosco, Pulp300, murrayewv

            You know that both McCain and Obama wear bracelets from men who died in Iraq. Obama's grandfather fought in WW II and his grandmother (yes that grandmother) worked in a factory then--considering that they helped to raise him, I imagine he was pretty intimately aware of what it means to have that kind of history. It would be cheaply political for him to suddenly turn up with a flag pin, but if he wore a flag pin with a story behind it, that would make more sense to me.

            Barack Obama will only become president if enough people pay attention, so pay attention, dammit!

            by JMS on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:26:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  My MIL is from Kansas.... (0+ / 0-)

              so it is a Kansas pin.  I know for sure the sort of grandma he had from my years living in Kansas.  His grandma was a good woman but still had the fear factor.

              You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

              by murrayewv on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:31:32 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  you could contact the campaign (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            murrayewv

            :) about your idea.

      •  What's in a pin (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        murrayewv, teyigdhk

        Are the veterans you've referred to as caring so much about the flag pin people who truly would be open to voting for Obama in any case?  It seems like such a petty issue.  I can much more easily understand those who want to ban flag burning, even though I vehemently disagree with them.

        He can give a speech at the convention about how much the country means to him without announcing to the world that he's flip-flopping on the lapel pin.  His reason to stop wearing it in the first place was that symbols have been elevated above action in how patriotism is displayed and perceived.  To reverse course would be to concede that patriotic talk and image trump action.

        Btw great to know you decided on Obama and thanks for the diary!

        Talent is widely distributed but wealth and privilege are concentrated. We must remedy this mismatch. - Martin Eakes

        by Pulp300 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:31:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  People love the flag here..... (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Pulp300, SnowCountry

          we have so many flags and regular well attended memorial day and veteran's day parades and celebrations.  By suggesting that wearing the flag pin was hypocritical in light of the war and false patriotism, Obama said too much.

          "You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest.

          There are a lot of people who were fooled into supporting this war here.  It seems to me that wearing the flag isn't a substitution for true patriotism- but conversely, many who wear the flag are extremely patriotic.  Obama thinks real patriotism is speaking out against the war.  But there are many other forms of real patriotism, including understanding that someone whose policies you disagree with are genuinely patriotic.  

          McCain is genuinely patriotic, but his policies are bad for this country.  If Obama runs on who is the bigger patriot or tries to play McCain as unpatriotic, it will not work.  This is what has offended so many with the Clintons' remarks about McCain which sort of praise him.  They are trying to play this game, while marginalizing Obama.  But they are actually being very strategic in how to neutralize McCain- although in doing so they are really offending the Obama supporters.

          I think he should address it straight up.  It worked pretty well on race- and I think his web site is pretty good on the issue as well.

          You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

          by murrayewv on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:43:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  not a patriotism competition (0+ / 0-)

            I didn't mean to imply that in making a case for his own patriotism that Obama should or would downplay McCain's.  Obama can talk about patriotism both in its simplest sense and as caring enough about your country to want to put it back on the right course, valuing the military enough to only use it as a last resort, taking care of veterans when they come home, etc.

            Regardless of whether it was some sort of political mistake to stop wearing the pin, it would be transparent pandering to change his mind now.  It would also bring far more attention to what is a potential distraction.

            Talent is widely distributed but wealth and privilege are concentrated. We must remedy this mismatch. - Martin Eakes

            by Pulp300 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 12:03:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nope- pandering is good..... (2+ / 0-)

              seriously.  How can pandering on a national symbol be anything but good?  It is a symbol!  It is a lovely graphic arts design!  It costs nothing- just needs a nice speech and a flag pin- preferably not one from China.  

              I think Obama's problem is really overthinking this one.  He did a good job on the pledge on the web site- and he should take it national.

              Race and fair play- religious freedom- privacy- abortion- those are big issues and no one should pander on those.  The flag should be a no brainer.

              You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

              by murrayewv on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 12:18:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Good because he's going to need every vote there (4+ / 0-)

    Kentucky, West Virginia and Tennessee will be the hardest states for Obama to break 40% in the general.

    Whenever I visit the region it amazes me, especially since I'm from Seattle originally. It's like a totally different country from the West Coast.

    The Book of Revelation is not a foreign policy manual.

    by Dont Just Stand There on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:40:40 AM PDT

  •  I appreciate your reasoning (5+ / 0-)

    very much.  Thanks for your support of Obama.

  •  Tell us about the thoughts of other WV residents. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    murrayewv

    This would be interesting to hear as well.

  •  He never had a chance in a place like WV (0+ / 0-)

    in the general election.  You guys fell for the swiftboating of 2004 and you are falling for it again.

  •  If the Circular Firing Squad aims for the feet (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    peraspera, Pulp300, murrayewv, SnowCountry

    it's called a DANCE.

    Sigh, I don't get why some of my fellow Obama supporters love giving Clinton fundraising opportunities.

    It's of the highest stupidity.  

    NetrootNews coming soon!

    by ksh01 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:49:07 AM PDT

  •  Principles or Politics (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Lesser Dane

    Welcome!
    We have to be realistic campaigns are ugly and Barack is not going to make this one a love fest. The framing in this country sucks and soon we will see all the coon-sambo-black militant mish mash drug out to support mccain.

    McCain is the hero and no one seems to want to replay the "swift boat" mess by actually questioning  why we were in Viet Nam.

    Rethugs would have no problem with swiftboating in 2008 if the VET was a Democratic candidate.

    Americans are not known for their intelligence.
    When someone believes that a flag pin made in China worn on a jacket is patriotism they are certifiable stupid. No wiggle room there.

    We better be prepared to NOT run an nasty campaign against McCain

    Never bring a knife to a gunfight. We can take comfort in our principles or we can win-It is Either Or.

    We better prepare to bloody Mccain. No taking the high road. Obama can take the high road with Hillary but he better bring the brass knuckles for Mccain or else he will not be the next Prez.  

    Save Our Daughters Let's tear John McCain's hopes and dreams to shreds.

    by kiki236 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:59:42 AM PDT

    •  There is a way to do it.... (7+ / 0-)

      Obama should be able to politely dice McCain into pieces.  If you want a tougher campaigner, vote for Clinton.  But I don't think that will work here- we need to have Obama explain why he is for Appalachians and little people- why he wants to build one America with opportunity for all.  I think his suggestion for a national service opportunity would play quite well here.

      McCain is the one who will do or say anything to be elected.  We need to keep the pressure up to tell his real record, complete with flipflops.

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

      by murrayewv on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:03:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with you about the strange tactic of (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Pulp300, murrayewv, petral, SheaG

    trying to win voters by demeaning them, and drumming up every breath she takes into a major character indictment...

    I have also prefered Clinton for her eco voting record, detailed grasp of policy issues etc but I do think that the Bosnia story has sunk her against Mcain now.

    I am one of the few who find that understandable: I also do get memories mixed up in the past, which is something that people who have been under traumatic stress for a long time can do. (She'd confused her experience with Olympia Snowe's recounting of a similar experience.) While my longterm stress has been different: I have a bipolar son: for about 10 years before he started taking his meds, life in our family was like being in a warzone, and my memories of that period are shaky. Certainly she has been under that sort of longterm stress, and getting little sleep during this campaign, as little as 3 a night.

    That said, it changed things for me. It does mean that she is not as able to withstand the ongoing stress of being the president as Obama. That Obama took a real break was smart and bodes well in a president.

    So please help Obama against Mcain by taking a second to click on my sig (to drive the truth about Mcain's much worse eco voting record up the google)

    This is needed because Independants think McCain is a maverick on global warming legislation, in California there are Independants who really believe that he will be no worse than The Terminator on climate change and energy.

    If his voting record is any clue, he will make Bush's triggerhappy vetos look restrained by comparison.

    Just click and click back, do it every time you see my sig and we will drive that untold truth about Mcain into public consciousness:

  •  Glad you have (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    murrayewv, dotcommodity

    decided for Obama. Obama and his fellow dems comprise the top half of the rated senators on vets affairs by Iraq/Afghan Vets Association. The GOP guys like McCain are at the bottom; please make sure that the vets know that and that Obama has been a strong advocate for vets on the Veterans Affairs Committee.

    Sounds like an uphill fight in West Va. tho.
    All we can do is plug away.

  •  welcome aboard! (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    murrayewv, Virginian in Spain

    nice diary...

    Fired up and ready to Go!

    by reesespcs on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:20:59 AM PDT

  •  Nice reasoning. Question, did you notice that (0+ / 0-)

    the posts in this site really started going ugly after the Clintons started poisoning the waters? I remember there were many of us here no long ago supporting Hillary and then changed our votes primarily because of her and her campaign and then Obama started giving us reasons to follow him.

    Not to excuse the negative and ugly posts here, in fact, I believe there have been more positive one and many that amazingly point out how to work together with tolerance. It seems that the posts were mostly reactions to the ugly doors and windows the Clintons opened...

    •  The crying issue.... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SnowCountry

      was so offensive to me-that was when the real nastiness started for me.  Accusing an exhausted person who teared up a little of being fake was before South Carolina and the issues of comments on race from the Clintons.  

      I have sympathy for all the Democrats in this campaign.  Obama was wise to take a real vacation- that could be the Bush legacy. If you are exhausted you can't do as good a job under all this pressure.

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

      by murrayewv on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:55:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  How can a rumor be a big mistake? eom (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Dont Just Stand There, Pulp300
  •  Thank you murrayewv for your vote (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    murrayewv, SnowCountry

    Every vote is precious and even though HRC will win WV, I appreciate your decision and your thoughts.

    John McCain: Vowing to connect real leaders with real bowels

    by chicago minx on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 12:16:42 PM PDT

    •  Thanks chicagominx..... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SnowCountry

      it is done with a lot of soulsearching and consideration of the issues.  In the end, I think both will be good candidates, but Obama is much better on electability and clean government record.

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

      by murrayewv on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 12:23:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank You Murray ! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    murrayewv

Permalink | 78 comments