Daily Kos

Engineering a coup in Gaza

Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:20:49 PM PDT

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The latest escalation of violence in Gaza, sparked by the assassination of five Hamas militants, saw some of the fiercest fighting in the Occupied Territories for years. Between 27 February and 3 March, at least 106 Palestinians were killed and hundreds more were wounded. According to B'Tselem, over half of those killed (including 25 children) were civilians who did not take part in the hostilities.

During the same period, one Israeli civilian and two Israeli soldiers were killed by Palestinians.
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Israel's atrocities were so extreme that even the UN Secretary-General, the EU and this clown felt compelled to condemn them as "excessive" and illegal. The British government produced a pathetic statement effectively backing the violence of the Israeli occupation while condemning the "terrorist acts" of the resistance.  Israel's operation ("Warm Winter") did nothing to stop the Qassams, which are themselves primarily a response to Israeli attacks. This is no surprise: Israel carried out a similar offensive in late 2006, killing hundreds of Palestinians, most of whom were civilians, which failed to halt the rocket fire. Israel now faces a dilemma, reflected succinctly by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who recently told a parliamentary committee that,

"[w]hat happened in recent days was not a one-time event ... The objective is reducing the rocket fire and weakening Hamas."

The problem is that these two objectives - halting the rocket attacks on the one hand and weakening Hamas on the other - are mutually incompatible. In the short-term, the only way to end the rocket attacks short of genocide is to accept Hamas' overtures and negotiate a ceasefire. This option is supported by a majority of the Israeli public, but is rejected by the U.S. and Israeli governments because it undermines their second objective: "weakening Hamas."  

Engineering a coup

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Indeed, as recently leaked confidential documents show, Israel and the U.S. were bent on toppling Hamas from the moment it entered office in early 2006. In an important article for Vanity Fair, from which I'll be quoting extensively (apologies for that!), David Rose shows how the U.S. and Israel systematically worked to undermine and destroy the elected Hamas government throughout 2006 and 2007. He further demonstrates that, to quote the International Institute for Strategic Studies, the Hamas takeover in Gaza was "a direct result of the policies advocated by Fatah’s ‘old guard’ ... [and] US officials in charge of Palestine policy: the neo-conservative Deputy National Security Advisor Elliott Abrams, and Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs David Welch."

After Hamas' electoral victory, the U.S. response was unequivocal. According to a senior State Department official quoted by Rose,

"[t]he administration spoke with one voice: ‘We have to squeeze these guys.’ With Hamas’s election victory, the freedom agenda was dead."

And so the U.S. and Israel resolved to topple the elected Palestinian government. The plan was two-fold. Firstly, "possibly the most rigorous form of international sanctions ... in modern times" was imposed on the Palestinians to paralyse the government and destroy the economy. In parallel, Israel drastically extended its control over the West Bank, kidnapped 64 Hamas legislators and launched a brutal military assault which extensively destroyed government and civilian infrastructure and killed over 600 people, mostly civilians. The sanctions were designed to undermine public support for Hamas and forment internal Palestinian violence.

As Ha'aretz reported in October 2006,

'Israeli sources say that the United States is interested in the fall of the Hamas government currently in power in the Palestinian Authority.

During the Quartet meeting in London, the Americans expressed their satisfaction with the results of the boycott of Hamas' government, which has undermined its standing among the Palestinians.

However, the U.S. administration is also certain that the sanctions against Hamas will inevitably result in a violent confrontation between Hamas and Fatah, and in such a scenario, they would prefer to strengthen the "good guys" headed by Abbas.'

Support for the "good guys" involved arming, financing and training an elite Fatah militia with the goal of destroying Hamas. This force would be under the control of Muhammed Dahlan, a Fatah warlord described by President Bush in 2003 as "our guy". According to three U.S. officials cited by Rose, this assessment was shared by Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice and Assistant Secretary David Welch, among others:

"[Welch] cared about results, and [he supported] whatever son of a bitch you had to support. Dahlan was the son of a bitch we happened to know best. He was a can-do kind of person. Dahlan was our guy."

Lieutenant General Keith Dayton was put in charge of the operation. In November 2006 Dayton met with Dahlan to discuss the new "security plan". According to the notes of the meeting made by an official, Dayton said:

"We need to reform the Palestinian security apparatus ... But we also need to build up your forces in order to take on Hamas."

Rose comments:

"The idea was to simplify the confusing web of Palestinian security forces and have Dahlan assume responsibility for all of them in the newly created role of Palestinian national-security adviser. The Americans would help supply weapons and training."

Dayton promised Dahlan an immediate package worth $86.4 million, but failed to win approval from a Congress nervous about the possibility that military aid may end up being used against Israel. To get round this, a reduced $59 million package of "non-lethal" aid was approved by Congress in April 2007, while other, covert means were arranged provide the weapons and training. According to a State Department official cited by Rose,

"Those in charge of implementing the policy were saying, ‘Do whatever it takes. We have to be in a position for Fatah to defeat Hamas militarily, and only Muhammad Dahlan has the guile and the muscle to do this.’ The expectation was that this was where it would end up - with a military showdown."

Throughout the second half of 2006, the violence between Hamas and Fatah increased, as predicted by U.S. planners. According to outgoing UN Middle East envoy Alvaro de Soto, a U.S. official said of this conflict: "I like this violence ... It means that other Palestinians are resisting Hamas." Dahlan boasts that he waged "very clever warfare" against the government for months. Indeed, he announced his intentions regarding Hamas quite clearly as early as June 2006:

"Hamas is now the weakest Palestinian faction. They are whining and complaining. Well, they will have to suffer yet more until they are damned to the seventh ancestor. I will haunt them from now till the end of their term in four years. And I swear, whoever within Fatah says ‘we should join the government," I will humiliate them."

This "clever warfare" involved kidnappings and torture, among other atrocities that were reciprocated by Hamas. Frustratingly for U.S. officials, despite the sanctions, the Israeli bombing and the increasingly internal conflict, the Hamas government remained steadfast. In late 2006, an impatient Condoleeza Rice met with Abbas and stated, according to an official who witnessed the meeting:

"So we’re agreed? You’ll dissolve the government within two weeks?"

Abbas responded:

"Maybe not two weeks. Give me a month. Let’s wait until after the Eid."

Rose continues:

'Rice got into her armored S.U.V., where, the official claims, she told an American colleague, "That damned ... [meeting] has cost us another two weeks of Hamas government.'

After weeks passed without any action from Abbas, Jake Walles, the consul general in Jerusalem, was sent to (in Rose's words) 'deliver a barely varnished ultimatum to the Palestinian president.' According to a copy of the "talking points" memo prepared for him by the State Department (and authenticated by U.S. and Palestinian officials), Walles told Abbas:

"We need to understand your plans regarding a new [Palestinian Authority] government," Walles’s script said. "You told Secretary Rice you would be prepared to move ahead within two to four weeks of your meeting. We believe that the time has come for you to move forward quickly and decisively...

Hamas should be given a clear choice, with a clear deadline: ... they either accept a new government that meets the Quartet principles, or they reject it The consequences of Hamas’ decision should also be clear: If Hamas does not agree within the prescribed time, you should make clear your intention to declare a state of emergency and form an emergency government explicitly committed to that platform...

If you act along these lines, we will support you both materially and politically...We will be there to support you."

In other words, the U.S. was pushing Abbas to overthrow the Hamas government. Recognising the potential for violence, it promised to support Fatah "materially and politically" in the event of a conflict.

However, as the violence continued to deteriorate, Abbas departed from the American script and agreed to a national unity government in February 2007 (the 'Mecca Agreement'). This agreement, which had real potential to end the inter-Palestinian violence, was supported by an overwhelming majority of the Palestinian population. It received a rather different welcome from the U.S. According to a State Department official quoted by Rose, "Condi was apoplectic."

The International Crisis Group reported in August 2007 that:

"[I]t would be disingenuous in the extreme to minimise the role of outside players [in the collapse of the national unity government], the U.S. and the European Union in particular.

By refusing to deal with the national unity government and only selectively engaging some of its non-Hamas members, by maintaining economic sanctions and providing security assistance to one of the parties in order to outmanoeuvre the other, they contributed mightily to the outcome they now publicly lament.

The obvious conclusion, though not drawn explicitly by the ICG, is that the U.S. (supported by the EU) wanted the national unity government to fail, so that it could continue with its plans to overthrow Hamas. The documents revealed by David Rose show that, in his words, the U.S. responded to the Mecca Agreement by 'redoubling the pressure on its Palestinian allies' to confront Hamas.

This pressure took the form of "Plan B", which aimed to "enable [Abbas] and his supporters to ... produce a [Palestinian Authority] government through democratic means that accepts Quartet principles" by the end of 2007 (quoting a State Department memo). It called for Abbas to "collapse the government" if Hamas continued to reject the (absurd) Quartet "principles" and demanded that Fatah maintain control of the security forces, in violation of the Palestinian constitution, and "avoid Hamas integration with these services, while eliminating the Executive Force or mitigating the challenges posed by its continued existence." The memo continued:

"Dahlan oversees effort in coordination with General Dayton and Arab [nations] to train and equip 15,000-man force under President Abbas’s control to establish internal law and order, stop terrorism and deter extralegal forces."

The objective, again, was clear: to give Abbas "the capability to take the required strategic political decisions ... such as dismissing the cabinet, establishing an emergency cabinet." That is, to enable Abbas to overthrow the Hamas government.

The plan went through several draft stages, detailing U.S. proposals to expand Fatah forces and provide them with "highly specialized training abroad", in total amounting to $1.27 billion in "lethal and non-lethal" military aid over five years. The final draft confirmed that Abbas had "approved" the plan, and presented it as if it were a Palestinian idea as opposed to an American one.

On 30 April, an earlier draft of the plan was leaked to a Jordanian newspaper. In mid-May a regiment of 500 newly-trained Fatah militiamen entered the Gaza Strip from Egypt, while Dahlan was appointed national-security advisor, as stipulated by Dayton back in November 2006. On 7 June, Ha'aretz reported that Abbas and Dayton had asked Israel to permit the transport of the biggest arms shipment to Fatah forces to date, including 'dozens of armored cars, hundreds of armor-piercing rockets, thousands of hand grenades, and millions of rounds of ammunition.' All these events led Hamas to conclude, quite correctly, that Fatah was preparing to launch a U.S.-backed coup against it.

As Rose writes, '[a] few days later, just before the next batch of Fatah recruits was due to leave for training in Egypt, the [Hamas] coup began in earnest.'

Thus David Wurmser, a staunch neo-conservative who resigned as Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief Middle East adviser in July 2007 and is hardly a pro-Palestinian radical, accused the Bush administration of "engaging in a dirty war in an effort to provide a corrupt dictatorship [led by Abbas] with victory." He continued,

"It looks to me that what happened wasn’t so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen".

Rejecting peace

Of course, the plan went awry when Hamas took the initiative and soundly defeated Fatah forces in June 2007, taking control of Gaza in the process. Since then the U.S. and Israel have continued their efforts to depose Hamas, specifically by treating the 1.4 million residents of Gaza like vermin, progressively reducing their supply of food, water, electricity and fuel until they learn to follow orders. Aid agencies reported yesterday that Gaza's medical system is at breaking point. "Children constitute more than half the population of Gaza and are bearing the brunt of the crisis", said UNICEF in a statement.

 The Israeli government appears to be preparing a large-scale invasion in the near future, possibly with a view to re-establishing a permanent military presence in the Strip. Naturally, this will be justified by the claim that "we have no other option".

In fact, since January 2006 there have been numerous opportunities to make diplomatic progress with Hamas. The organisation entered office in the middle of an 18-month long unilateral ceasefire on a platform that was far closer to the standard two-state settlement (which is explicitly rejected by both Israel and the U.S.) than it was to the movement's 1988 Charter. It repeatedly called for a power-sharing arrangement with Fatah, as it continues to do, and supported the Prisoner's Document, which agreed to concentrate resistance in the West Bank and Gaza and called for "an independent Palestinian state with full sovereignty on all land occupied in 1967." It agreed to abide by any settlement reached by Abbas with Israel provided it be submitted to a Palestinian referendum, and in February 2007 agreed to a government of national unity on a platform that "respected" previous Palestinian agreements signed with Israel. Without exception, Israel and the U.S. reacted to these significant opportunities with violent rejectionism, flatly refusing to engage even superficially in a political process.

This approach continues today - despite almost universal recognition that some basic level of cooperation between Hamas and Fatah is a necessary pre-requisite for any serious attempt at peace, Israel and the U.S. have explicitly conditioned aid and diplomatic engagement with Abbas on his refusal to negotiate with Hamas. This in itself reveals a lot about the sincerity of Israel's professed intentions.

Those who systematically undermine all alternatives to violence make violence inevitable. As long as Israel and the U.S. view a Palestinian 'peace offensive' as something to be feared rather than welcomed, the conflict will continue, and you'll know just who to blame.

Further reading:

'Elliot Abrams' uncivil war', Conflicts Forum

'Victory for Hamas in Gaza', The Heathlander

'The Stage Is Being Set For A U.S.-backed Coup In Gaza', The Heathlander

Cross-posted at The Heathlander

Tags: Israel, Palestine, coup, Gaza, Hamas, Muhammed Dahlan, Condoleeza Rice, Elliot Abrams, Keith Dayton, occupation (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 112 comments

  •  By the way (13+ / 1-)

    the graph only represents the minimum number of Palestinian civilians who were not engaged in hostilities killed by Israel, according to B'Tselem. I tried to figure out how to do captions, but it wasn't working.

    •  Thats a fantastic Diary of the truth of the (6+ / 2-)

      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, Tonedevil, Demena, Owllwoman, BYw, Orpheus
      Hidden by:
      Eric S, dfb1968

      genocide that is being allowed to the Palastinians maybe the most courageous, and toughest group of people on our earth..! Its sad that this genocide is being carried out in the open and the full view of the supposedly civilized world, except when the Israelis have blocked access to cover their tracks..Can anyone deny with a straight face that this is not Collective Punishment Of A Civilian Population ? Also, will someone please explain to me how this desecration of human differs from the Warsaw Ghetto where the Jews were collectively contained..One German soldier killed = 100 Jews killed is about the same it seems Israelis to Palastinians..Are not the Palastinians in the best of times used a slave laborers of second class..Starving of children, deprivation of medicine and hospitals for children is nevur justified I dont give a fuk what rice-bush-cheney-olhmet-sharon say..

      "Better a little late, than a little never"..Julian Winston

      by Johnny Rapture on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:42:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Whoever TR'ed this (0+ / 0-)

      is totally abusing their TU status.  You don't TR for disagreeing with somebody, even vociferously.  The diary is well written and researched. I don't care how much you think you disagree with it's conclusions, you don't TR for that--you provide counterpoint view.  Shame on you, dfb1968 and Eric S.

      •  Sorry pal, (0+ / 0-)

        But I didn't TR this diary, but Johnny Rapture's hysterical equivalence betwixt the Nazi murder of millions and the sad contretemps in Gaza, even explaining my TR in the post directly below it.  

        Shame on you for the sloppy work.

        "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park." - Jim Moran

        by Eric S on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:41:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually, rereading his comment (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Eric S

          point taken.  I was just sensing a swirl of TR madness here, but your reasoning is sound on that point (along with the ethic of fundamental willingness to use the f'word and not know how to spell it).  Sorry.  I stand by my comment on the fact we don't TR diaries, unless they are clueless, and that wasn't about you.

          Peace, Eric, sorry, mmmkay?

  •  my favorite part: (13+ / 0-)

    "Everyone was against the elections," Dahlan says. Everyone except Bush. "Bush decided, ‘I need an election. I want elections in the Palestinian Authority.’ Everyone is following him in the American administration, and everyone is nagging Abbas, telling him, ‘The president wants elections.’ Fine. For what purpose?"

    The elections went forward as scheduled. On January 25, Hamas won 56 percent of the seats in the Legislative Council.

    Few inside the U.S. administration had predicted the result, and there was no contingency plan to deal with it. "I’ve asked why nobody saw it coming," Condoleezza Rice told reporters. "I don’t know anyone who wasn’t caught off guard by Hamas’s strong showing."

    "Everyone blamed everyone else," says an official with the Department of Defense. "We sat there in the Pentagon and said, ‘Who the fuck recommended this?’ "

    We don't have time for short-term thinking.

    by Compound F on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:29:16 PM PDT

  •  This is a huge story and is being overshadowed (8+ / 0-)

    by the election. Thanks for putting it up here. I hope you get some traction.

    Could you imagine the screaming that would be going on if this happened during any Democratic adminstration. This and the telcom immunity fiasco would have impeached any one else.

    " In our every deliberation,we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations" From the great law of the Iroquois confederacy.

    by flatford39 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:34:21 PM PDT

    •  agreed, flatford; and Iran is getting closer (0+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Johnny Rapture

      to center stage.

      The past two days the biggest news in the world was overshadowed by HRC & Obama:  the news was that US & Netanyahu's genocidal Israel pushed another sanctions regime thru UN.

      The goal is to bankrupt Iran.

      We know how well that worked with Iraq; and we know what Madeleine Albright, one of HRC's foreign policy advisors, had to say about sanctioning countried:

      "we consider the death of 500,000 Iraqi children an acceptable price to pay."

      goddammit I hate the people who are killing Palestinians and plotting to kill Iranians.

      Every prophet knows that nobody loves you for being the enemy of their illusions. --Wm Sloane Coffin.

      by Orpheus on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:19:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Please provide link for the Albright quote. n/t (0+ / 0-)

        "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park." - Jim Moran

        by Eric S on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:03:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here, though, interestingly... (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Rusty Pipes, Terra Mystica

          Correspondent Leslie Stahl said to Albright, "We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that"s more children than died in Hiroshima. And—and you know, is the price worth it?"

          Madeline Albright replied "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price—we think the price is worth it."

          ...she later said she regretted it. I don't see her saying anywhere specifically that the price was not worth it, but I guess you could take her regret and saying it was a "stupid statement" to mean that.

          here's the link

          Whenever we dumb down the political debate, we lose. -Barack Obama

          by klizard on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:41:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  What is your position on bombers (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Eric S

    butchering people at weddings where there are no military targets at all?  Is that an atrocity?  What about rockets fired into civilian areas?  Is that an atrocity?  How about statements that incite driving Israeli's into the sea?  Do those statements further the peace process?

    I don't have much faith in the Israeli government, but I sure don't think the trouble in that area of the world is solely the fault of Israel.

    "I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, you know I'm a peaceful man.'" Robbie Robertson

    by NearlyNormal on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:38:14 PM PDT

  •  Assassination of Palestinian politicians... (7+ / 0-)

    In parallel, Israel drastically extended its control over the West Bank, kidnapped 64 Hamas legislators and launched a brutal military assault which extensively destroyed government and civilian infrastructure and killed over 600 people, mostly civilians.

    I think this is one of the most underreported and serious attacks on Palestinian sovereignty. The damage that it does is not just disrupting the Palestinian government. There is a greater cost which is that a lot of people who would be talented, honest, reasonable, effective and moderate public servants from becoming active. It is extremely detrimental not only to the Palestinians, but to Israelis, because it helps ensure that the people who come to power are the sorts who don't mind putting their lives at risk--and that I think favors less reasonable, more extreme elements.

    Whenever we dumb down the political debate, we lose. -Barack Obama

    by klizard on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:38:48 PM PDT

  •  This story should be front page on (7+ / 0-)

    every Newspaper in this Country. War crimes are war crimes and I think Bush is number 1 at fault for this. Israel would not be doing this without encouragment from the US.  But they have a certain amount of fault too. They should have learned from the treatment they recieved that this behavior doesn't work.

    "Though the Mills of the Gods grind slowly,Yet they grind exceeding small."

    by Owllwoman on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:49:32 PM PDT

    •  It certainly should be (5+ / 0-)

      it's clear that the U.S. was at the forefront in pushing for this conflict. When Rice and Bush make absurd statements, as they did today, about achieving 'peace within 10 months', the only reason they are taken remotely seriously by anyone is because people aren't familiar with the record outlined above.

    •  The same is true of the UK, incidentally (0+ / 0-)

      details of British involvement in the Dayton plan are hard to come by. I'll need to look at it more closely, but for now here's Alistaire Crooke writing in the LRB:

      'The US and some European countries, including Britain, also chose to finance, train and arm the security apparatus led by Muhammad Dahlan, whom many Palestinians suspected – rightly – was being groomed as the ‘strong man’ who would eventually assume the presidency and restore Fatah to power.'

      The Guardian reported it quite prominently. AFAIK the BBC and the Independent haven't mentioned it, and I haven't checked any other sources yet.

  •  Iran (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Orpheus

    The media is completely ignoring the situation in Gaza, which I see as incredibly dangerous.  (Among other reasons, the Israeli action is very dangerous because it could involve Egypt, where the Mubarak government lacks popular support and there is a real danger of an Islamist takeover).  My primary concern is that Israel's action is part of a grand neo-con strategy to provoke Iran into a war.  Israel launches an all-out attack against Hamas, Iran responds by using surrogates in Iraq to attack the US, the US finally has the excuse it needs to attack Iran.  The leaked story about the non-existent Iranian nuclear program de-railed the neo-cons push to attack Iran for a while, but I doubt that Cheney & Co. will give up that easily.  They definitely want to make sure that the next President is saddled with war in both Iraq and Iran.

    •  gates of hell (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Owllwoman

      I am sceptical if attacking Iran is seriously contemplated.

      It was debated and debatable if the gasoline prices are a primal reason for declining political fortunes of GOP, but they do not help.  And it is unclear if Iran could close the Strait of Hormuz after being bombed, or not, and if they would close, how long they could keep it that way.

      And suppose that Iran would announce that they lift the blockade the moment US government will say that we are sorry, really, really sorry.  And stupid.

      So we would have to loose face.

      Everybody knows that we would rather throw away a trillion dollars than loose face.

      •  The thing is, the neocons may not care about the (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Odysseus, Orpheus

        ...interests of the GOP. If they did, the Iraq war might never have happened, as it's clearly hurting the GOP badly. I think the real agents behind this are neocons and other elements that have sway in the GOP, and their goal is militarization of relations between the US and the Middle East and Muslim world. Militarizing relations to the point of war with Iran would lead to a lot of secondary problems in the region that would, the neocons hope, only be solvable by military force, whether it's by a Republican or a Democratic administration.

        Whenever we dumb down the political debate, we lose. -Barack Obama

        by klizard on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 04:21:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  difference: a trial war (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Odysseus, Terra Mystica

          The problem is that we already had a war by proxy.  And how much more firepower and man power do we have compared with Israel?  3 times more?  Roughly the same?  I mean, of fources that can participate.  And how much more firepower and manpower does Iran have, compared with Hezbollah?  50?  100?

        •  so you think (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          MBNYC

          [T]he neocons may not care about the interests of the GOP.

          Interesting. Define, please, precisely what you mean when you use the term "neocons."

          •  An intellectual/political movement... (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Rusty Pipes

            ...and how you define its membership is a bit complicated, involving various people to different degrees.

            First of all, members of PNAC and the American Enterprise Institute, e.g., and other think tanks, you could say their members are the "real" neocons, the core of neoconservativism as an intellectual/political movement. Then there are their fellow-travelers in the Republican party. Which, I'm not sure exactly who that includes, but Cheney and Bush certainly seem to follow the same ideas, also Bolton. It seems like the other Republicans follow them or are "in on their plans" to different degrees, or in different ways.

            What they all seem to have in common is this agenda of militarizing US (and, esp. for some of them, Israeli) relations with countries in the Middle East, + Afghanistan and Pakistan. There seems to be a fairly distinct group of people who advocate these positions, mostly from think tanks (their "scholarship" does not cut the mustard in real universities). You see the same names over and over in a lot of different think-tanks and pseudo-academic institutions--Pipes, Podhoeretz, Feith, Perl, Kristol. No doubt you've heard these names many times. Also, some actual scholars, like Fouad Ajami and Bernard Lewis, back them up a lot, though their institutional role is more limited; Lewis, for one, is getting on in the years. All of their ideas tend to be based on some extremely racist/Islamophobic premises about Arabs in particular, and Islam in general. The idea of "islamofascism" iirc is a Bernard Lewis creation, he was saying it before Bush picked it up. Their ideas are totally discredited in mainstream scholarship, though for some of them, like Bernard Lewis, there is a big difference between what you could call his "real" scholarly works (The Emergence of Modern Turkey; The Jews of Islam) which are actually quite good, and his general-audience books, like What Went Wrong, which are scary crap.

            They seem to break down into more academic neocons, like Lewis, and Pipes and Kristol, and people like Bolton or Wolfowitz who have more high-profile political appointments, but are not elected, and then the elected people like Bush and Cheney who are maybe more incidental participants in the movement (or maybe not). Also, on the academic end, there are scholars who support their ideas but are not as much involved in the "project", i.e. you don't see them working for think tanks and writing open letters or policy platforms--thinking of Francis Fukuyama here, maybe also Ajami and Samuel Huntington.

            As for how this relates to militarization, I'm not sure what stake ideological Republican types like Cheney, Bush and Bolton, and the Christian dominionists, have in this or what they get out of it. I definitely see it being beneficial to some of them through their business connections--Halliburton, etc.. But even if it makes them rich, it hurts the party in general. It seems to me that, the way people are (very implausibly) accusing Obama of being a cult figure who will lead the Democrats to ruin, Bush actually did that with the Republican party, who bought into his hype. Probably a lot of them don't have such strong ideas about foreign policy, and believed the hype about the Iraq war. I don't think Bush, Cheney, etc., necessarily went in expecting the Republican party would be hurt by the Iraq war, but I also think their outside (corporate?) connections are as important, possibly more important than party loyalty, strictly speaking. So negative consequences to the party would be an acceptable price, to them, for what they're getting out of the Iraq war. I'm sure they don't give a rats ass about the Christian evangelicals, for example. Bush did a great job of bringing them in, but he mostly hasn't put his money where his mouth is in terms of their policy agenda. There's also stories about his personal conduct (e.g. not actually praying much) that suggest he's actually not a very committed evangelical.

            The academic neocons are a different story. I think they, especially, didn't actually believe the rosy outcome of the Iraq war that they were predicting publicly. For the academic neocons, they seem to be motivated by a certain vision of foreign policy that involves US hegemony in the Middle East and Israel in different ways. Their ideas are written in PNAC and various open letters put out by their think tanks. Israel's "security" seems to be a huge interest for them. I think they want to militarize Israel's relations with the rest of th Middle East in much the same way that BushCo want to militarize the US's relation with the Middle East, and the Muslim world more generally. They also seem to have something like a pro-free-market economic agenda. This documentis interesting, re their ideas about Israel. These are people who seem to study the Middle East pretty actively, so I find it very hard to believe that the outcome of such things as the Iraq war or the Axis of Evil speech and otherwise alienating Iran were any surprise to them. It could be that Bush and Cheney were bamboozled to some extent, but I find it hard to believe that the more academic neocons were surprised by any of this.

            I think people have researched the history of some of the "academic" neocons over the past 30+ years and drawn conclusions about that, but I haven't read any of that in detail. But they are fairly "real" and consistent as a movement, it's not a made-up conspiracy.

            Whew. That took a long time to explain. I'll have to recycle that text at some point, it actually looks lucid to me as I go back over it.

            Whenever we dumb down the political debate, we lose. -Barack Obama

            by klizard on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 09:42:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  following up and clarifying one thing... (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Rusty Pipes

              For the scholar neocons, the members of the think tanks, it looks like they have very different roles. Some of them like Fukuyama and Ajami have real academic jobs at universities. But I think they are more there to give an air of legitimacy. They tend not to be that active in putting forward the most distinctive positions of the movement. Their ideas are consistent with the core neocon militarism, but they have their own histories of scholarly work that is really not neoconservative. Fukuyama for example is the quintissential intellectual prostitute for the corporate elite. His famous work was The End of History and the Last Man, which predicts that all the important struggles of history ended (written in the early 1990s?) with the fall of Soviet socialism, and some form of capitalism (mixed with some degree of welfare state, but essentially capitalism) and democracy will be the eventual future of all humanity. Basically, Western culture wins.

              Then he took a 180 and joined the neocons, I think after 9/11. He completely bought into the Huntington clash of civilizations theory. AFAIK he didn't even try to reconcile his new ideas to his old ones, he just jumped onto the bandwagon. So the way it looks he is not doing serious scholarship (not that his original work was all that serious even on its own) so much as writing propaganda for certain people.

              Whenever we dumb down the political debate, we lose. -Barack Obama

              by klizard on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 09:52:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  which of these (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              MBNYC

              "neocons" are not Republicans?

              •  Oh, I think they all are... (0+ / 0-)

                ...just that their interests and the interests of the party need not be one and the same.

                Whenever we dumb down the political debate, we lose. -Barack Obama

                by klizard on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 10:54:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  resentments as the source of power (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  Eiron

                  One clarification: there exists "liberal imperialists", I think they call themselves muscular liberals, and Clinton is basically an apostate from that sect (is she?). You must remember that DLC was really a leadership organization, even if it is now a shadow of its former self.

                  Back to GOP.  Pro-bussiness agenda cannot really deliver "panem" to masses so it must have "circensem".  If not bread, then circus.  And not a tame affair with clowns, there has to be a good fight.  And a fight requires enemies.

                  Enemies can be internal and external.  The problem with internal enemies is that their unpopularity, of Blacks, gay, atheists, aliens is waning, or it never really took off.  So external enemies could be better.  There is also certain brutal logic that unites attitudes about internal policies and external.

                  As someone noted, neocons are basically mercenaries, so they have an agenda only to the degree that people who pay the bills have.

                •  well, (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  MBNYC

                  I notice you didn't supply any evidence for that. And that was what prompted my original question, your extraordinary statement that "the neocons may not care about the interests of the GOP."

                  I appreciate your lengthy response. Your UID # reveals you to be a new user. If so, you may be unaware that this site has a long and sorry history of people employing terms like "neocons," "Zionists," "AIPAC," and even "Israelis," when they really mean "Jews." Many of these people eventually allowed their anti-semitism to surface sufficiently so that they were banned, either manually or on auto; many remain on site. So you can see why a comment like "the neocons may not care about the interests of the GOP" might raise a red flag: similar comments have been posted here by people who really meant "the Jews may not care about the interests of the GOP"--because you see, they care only about the Jews . . . the sort of anti-semitic slur that has tarred Jews for more than 2000 years. Your long and considered response tends me towards the opinion that if you are one of these sorts of people, you're among the craftiest to appear here in many a moon.

                  •  Thanks for pointing that out about the terms... (2+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    Rusty Pipes, blueness

                    ...and yeah, I'm new-ish here, so I wasn't aware of that history. I was wary of the potential for that, but how much it actually happens in a given community, well, you don't know that until you see it, I guess.

                       I notice you didn't supply any evidence for that. And that was what prompted my original question, your extraordinary statement that "the neocons may not care about the interests of the GOP."

                    Yeah, and that's why I phrased the point very tentatively. I think their overall pattern of policies, etc., is evidence, but yes, it's diffuse evidence and not necessarily "damning". But I don't believe the claim is extraordinary. Any party has different factions, Democrats included. Any faction might have their own interests that they put before the good of the party as a whole. People are accusing Hillary Clinton of doing that, like, several times per minute on this site. So I don't think it's a stretch to say the neocons are that way relative to the Republican Party.

                       So you can see why a comment like "the neocons may not care about the interests of the GOP" might raise a red flag: similar comments have been posted here by people who really meant "the Jews may not care about the interests of the GOP"--because you see, they care only about the Jews . . . the sort of anti-semitic slur that has tarred Jews for more than 2000 years.

                    Point taken. Like a lot of slurs, it relies on repetition rather than any coherent underlying logic, so saying that the argument is logically accurate and that I never said "the Jews" doesn't obviate the concern that a stereotype is being promoted. I did make the point that this could be said about Bush and Cheney as well as the 'scholar' neocons. Looks like I should have been more careful about how I phrased the statement though.

                    Whenever we dumb down the political debate, we lose. -Barack Obama

                    by klizard on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 11:47:25 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Yes, you should have been more careful, since (0+ / 0-)

                      I clued you in to this very same story yesterday, right here and here.

                      Though it didn't seem to matter too much to you then.

                      "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park." - Jim Moran

                      by Eric S on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:09:51 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I bet you're wagging a finger at the screen, yes? (0+ / 0-)

                        Please. STFU. Thanks.

                        The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                        by callmecassandra on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:05:03 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Taking klizard under your warm maternal wing? (0+ / 0-)

                          With your coaching he should be thoroughly marginalized in short order.

                          "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park." - Jim Moran

                          by Eric S on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:54:04 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Um. No. (0+ / 0-)

                            You just have the habit of beating a dead horse. Shows that bit of cruelty of yours that bubbles up from time to time. Wait. Make that every other post.

                            With your coaching he should be thoroughly marginalized in short order.

                            If I am, we be in the same boat. But not for the same reasons of course. Hm. Did you think your enabling of racists and making bigoted comments made you popular around here?

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 07:32:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                            •  I know a little bit about horses. (0+ / 0-)

                              My mount is a Hanoverian giant, name of Pride.  

                              When you can manage your own, then maybe we'll have something to talk about.

                              "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park." - Jim Moran

                              by Eric S on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:09:32 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                              •  Talk about what? (0+ / 1-)

                                Hidden by:
                                Eric S

                                You beat living horses, too? That cruel streak, man. Worse than I thought.

                                Why don't you go find an Arab to beat? You value them less than horses. So why the hell not?

                                Pretentious. Cruel. Bitter. On a roll, on a roll. Thirteen's my favorite number. Go for it.

                                The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                                by callmecassandra on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:23:56 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

                                •  My three year old rides a pony, (0+ / 0-)

                                  ain't he the vicious one.  You're losing it.

                                  Goodbye.

                                  "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park." - Jim Moran

                                  by Eric S on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:47:03 PM PDT

                                  [ Parent ]

                                  •  I'm sure you're 3 yr. old... (1+ / 0-)

                                    Recommended by:
                                    Brecht

                                    is a cute, sweetpie. Humble. Loving. Sweet. Am I right?

                                    But, he wouldn't have gotten his disposition from you of course.

                                    I talk to you the way you want me too, eric and you go and downrate me for it? Unbelievable.

                                    Not goodbye. G'night.

                                    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                                    by callmecassandra on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:16:03 PM PDT

                                    [ Parent ]

                                    •  Now what was it Hunter said (1+ / 0-)

                                      Recommended by:
                                      Brecht

                                      in his Exegesis for Troll ratings?  Oh, here it is:

                                      In light of the current primary fights and ratings wars, here are some explicit clarifications of how the community rating standards are supposed to work.
                                      ...
                                        2. Do not troll rate someone you are actively having a fight with. If you are in a heated argument with someone, you should not be judging whether or not what they say is trollworthy. Leave it to others to decide what behavior is or isn't over the line.

                                      Sorry to interrupt.  You two seemed to be having such fun.

                                      Reel Bad Arabs: a crash course on Orientalism

                                      by Rusty Pipes on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 05:21:17 PM PDT

                                      [ Parent ]

                                      •  Oh please! (0+ / 0-)

                                        Cassandra does nothing but have fights, and they are always so toxic that reasonable people keep clear.  As for me, I regularly let her rant, sputter and cuss like a crazy person while I maintain my cool, refrain from giving out TRs, and alway give her the last word... so don't worry about interrupting.  

                                        But how many crude personal attacks and despicable accusations should I sit through, in a fight I didn't ask for yet she began, before I send my little TR message to the FP'ers?  They are well equipped to evaluate the situation, and very familiar with her antics.  If you are serious about your complaint, I urge you forward it on to them directly.

                                        Since you are a gleeful spectator to all this, why do you fail in your duty as a TU by allowing Cass to make irresponsible allegations clearly warranting a troll rating?  If you fulfilled your own obligations instead of being a thoroughly partisan busybody, I wouldn't have had to give her a TR.  

                                        You give her what she deserves and I'll gladly remove my rating.

                                        "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park." - Jim Moran

                                        by Eric S on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 06:17:11 PM PDT

                                        [ Parent ]

                                        •  oh, Eric, you just love a fight, don't you (0+ / 0-)

                                          Donuts, donuts, donuts. I'd like it if one brave soul would give a baklava, for a change.

                                          "Problems can't be solved by the same level of thinking that created them" Einstein

                                          by Brecht on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 06:43:23 PM PDT

                                          [ Parent ]

                                          •  Yes, he loves to fight. (1+ / 0-)

                                            Recommended by:
                                            Brecht

                                            He just can't standing losing them, which as you're well aware, is often.

                                            I had baklava for the first time last Christmas. Every bite was bliss. I couldn't even be bothered to warm it a little. I so love sweets.

                                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                                            by callmecassandra on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 07:54:29 PM PDT

                                            [ Parent ]

                                            •  Baklava should be served at room temperature. (1+ / 0-)

                                              Recommended by:
                                              Brecht

                                              Reheating it causes the filo to wilt.

                                              "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park." - Jim Moran

                                              by Eric S on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:37:12 PM PDT

                                              [ Parent ]

                                              •  The instructions on the box suggested warming. (0+ / 0-)

                                                Not to worry. I rarely nuke pastry anyway. Actually, I got two baklava presents. That other one came in a tin box and tasted like crap. Very dry and rather bitter. Left an icky aftertaste. Luckily I ate the good one first, so I didn't get turned off.

                                                The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                                                by callmecassandra on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:17:00 PM PDT

                                                [ Parent ]

                                                •  I've never heated baklava, nor refused it - (0+ / 0-)

                                                  not that I'm an expert on baklava, or on refusing sweet temptations.

                                                  We each of us have a part that likes to fight, and another part that doesn't like to lose. And sometimes it's thrilling to run with them. And at other times it's better to laugh at those silly parts, which trap us in the Ego and impede our awakening.

                                                  "Problems can't be solved by the same level of thinking that created them" Einstein

                                                  by Brecht on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 05:43:50 AM PDT

                                                  [ Parent ]

                                                  •  I'm not gonna say I don't mind losing. (0+ / 0-)

                                                    Cause I do.

                                                    But there is something to be gained from admitting errors, conceding or accepting defeat graciously. It strengthens one somehow and softens the other into a more receptive frame of mind to your ideas and pov.

                                                    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                                                    by callmecassandra on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 08:21:37 AM PDT

                                                    [ Parent ]

                                          •  Recall your last two missives to me? (0+ / 0-)

                                            In that instance, where baklava was received, baklava was returned in kind.  When a skatapita was tendered, a slightly more refined version of the same was handed back, with links.  Do you need links now, or have i jogged your memory?

                                            But since you stepped in it, why note who started the fight in question,  compare respective comments and tell me why Cassandra's contribution doesn't even merit a passing mention.

                                            I would suggest you are just another partisan hypocrite, aching for a fight.  

                                            "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park." - Jim Moran

                                            by Eric S on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:33:51 PM PDT

                                            [ Parent ]

                                            •  Let's not recall missives and link links (0+ / 0-)

                                              that would be no fun at all. We are not in a court of law, we're just having a conversation. And if we have to put it in a metaphorical place, why not a playground or a green meadow?

                                              I'm not going to "note who started the fight in question": you both could have been nicer, and I'm not in a score-keeping mood. Yes, being human I can be partisan, but "just another partisan hypocrite, aching for a fight."? Ouch. Really? Or are you just chucking a rash ad hom. around?

                                              Some days I do keep score, as you so often seem to, Eric. I put my head down like a good black pawn, and I leave my heart out of it. I see nothing but victory on the horizon, and all the white pieces I'll have to take to get there. Other days I ignore my opponents, and other days I try joking. If you feel superior when you hang an insult on my name, "hypocrisy" will serve, because I am at least mercurial of mood and easy to misread.

                                              You're pretty good at misreading me, Eric, but in general you trade me baklava for baklava, which is why I always remember you're human, even when you look at me like I'm a pawn. I appreciate the times when you allow me to be myself, so I try to return the favor.

                                              To answer the question in your comment, I will tell you "why Cassandra's contribution doesn't even merit a passing mention." Because we can have a better conversation in a green meadow than in a court of law. Because klizard and blueness were doing fine before you stuck your oar in. Because it didn't help either for cassandra to tell you to "STFU." Because this diary is about Gaza, and after these first two tangential comments, there are now 18 more (yes, mea culpa too) which have added little to the conversation and less to world peace.

                                              You mentioned above that you"regularly let {callmecassandra} rant, sputter and cuss like a crazy person while I maintain my cool, refrain from giving out TRs, and alway give her the last word." Right here, right now, you've lost your cool, HRed cassandra and, by not letting her one little STFU comment slide (which would have been a fine last word to give her), you've brought more heat and less light to DKos.

                                              Three strikes dude, it's over. Put down the baseball bat, I'll be hanging in the meadow if you
                                              ever want a conversation...

                                              "Problems can't be solved by the same level of thinking that created them" Einstein

                                              by Brecht on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 07:09:06 AM PDT

                                              [ Parent ]

                                              •  Sorry, but I have treated her much better (0+ / 0-)

                                                than she deserves, and I think accusing me of being a racist, wanting to beat Arabs and being cruel to animals - all in one comment - deserves a teensy little HR.  (They don't really hurt all that much.)  If she was a man, sitting next to me in a bar, and put me through that entire string's tirade, I would have spit in her face.

                                                As for our conversation, I would expect a little more candor from you before I would be willing take your words without an oath taken and stenographer present.

                                                "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park." - Jim Moran

                                                by Eric S on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 07:54:35 AM PDT

                                                [ Parent ]

                                        •  Why is it... (0+ / 0-)

                                          that I'm able to have civil, even heated debates with some from your number and we both leave the debate with no grudges or animosity, but not with you?

                                          But how many crude personal attacks and despicable accusations should I sit through, in a fight I didn't ask for yet she began, before I send my little TR message to the FP'ers?

                                          I'm just gonna ignore the first part of that question (and the bulk of your post) due to its utter and amazing hypocrisy which should not be diluted in any with a rebuttal.

                                          But the fight? blueness and lizard had already settled it. If blueness was satisfied with lizard's explanation, you should've been as well. blueness is just as sensitive to indicators of anti-semitism as you are - and a better judge in detecting it than you seem capable. The shit was over with and it was settled amicably. Which is a good thing and the point of it all. But then you come and well, commenced to beating a dead horse, picking the same fight that had been resolved.

                                          So you got called you on it.

                                          Now, I already know you didn't like how I did it. But your real problem is that you can't admit you made the mistake of not leaving well enough alone. It was petty. It was petulant. It was Eric S.

                                          One thing though. Perhaps lizard didn't clarify for you because you can be an ass and often twist people's meanings or disregard others' positions so that you may make up your own shit as replacement to fit your preconceptions. Just a thought...

                                          The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                                          by callmecassandra on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:16:47 PM PDT

                                          [ Parent ]

                                          •  "some" should read "very few" and (0+ / 0-)

                                            you are one to talk about civility.  Your incivility has drawn the direct comment of the FP'ers and resulted in the lose of your rating privileges... right?

                                            As for my comment to klizard, it had practically nothing to do with his discussion with blueness, but was a continuation of discussions we had the two days before over several diaries.  

                                            The rest of your self-serving nonsense isn't worth comment.

                                            "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park." - Jim Moran

                                            by Eric S on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:49:02 PM PDT

                                            [ Parent ]

                                            •  You might be right. (0+ / 0-)

                                              some" should read "very few"

                                              Cause only a very few of you are sane.

                                              Been to any candidate diaries lately?  I never wished sickness and death on anyone here. There are worse than me out in the wide orange world. Btw, the people who have done this are still around with full privileges. You don't get out much do you?

                                              Everything's politics in the end. Gots nothing to do civility/incivility as been seen over and over and over....

                                              As for my comment to klizard, it had practically nothing to do with his discussion with blueness, but was a continuation of discussions we had the two days before over several diaries.

                                              Um...yeah.

                                              The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                                              by callmecassandra on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:12:02 PM PDT

                                              [ Parent ]

                                        •  No jelly donuts today (0+ / 0-)

                                          I've been spending too much quality time with my children on weekends to maintain TU.

                                          Reel Bad Arabs: a crash course on Orientalism

                                          by Rusty Pipes on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:51:23 PM PDT

                                          [ Parent ]

            •  Not Sure It's Limited to the Middle East (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              blueness

              I define the neo-cons as an influential group within academia and US foreign policy/military circles that seeks US global military hegemony.  Their basic idea is that after "we won" the Cold War, the US is the sole superpower, and there is an opportunity for the US to dominate the world militarily, ala Rome.  The neo-cons think of themselves as idealists, since they see a "Pax Americana" sustained by US military dominance as a benevolent force in the world that will help propagate American "ideals" of "democracy" and "free markets".  However, they see the window of opportunity for establishing this regime as fairly limited, because of the rise of China, and to a lesser extent Russia.  I believe that their primary enemy is now, and has always been, China.  They focus on the Middle East because of the strategic importance of Middle Eastern oil, which is actually far more important to China and the rest of Asia than it is to the US, since we get most of our oil from the western hemisphere.  Their strategy is to establish US military domination over the Middle East, and its oil resources, as a way of checking China's rise, and therefore the key to establishing US global hegemony.  (Establishing US military domination of space is the other major prong of the neo-con agenda).  9/11 provided the ideal pretext for mounting a military invasion of the Middle East; I think the neo-cons wanted to do it anyway, but 9/11 made it a much easier sale to the American public.  As for the difficulty of the Iraq War, I don't think that this has ever been of any concern to the neo-cons, because their only real objective in invading Iraq was to stay there.  When McCain talked about a "100 year occupation", he articulated this policy perfectly (although I think that the neo-cons would have preferred at least 1,000 years).
               
              Right now, Iran is the main player in the Middle East, and the major Middle Eastern oil source, that is still outside of American control, and I think that the neo-cons want to change this.  There are some segments of the American military (particularly in the Army and the Marines) who view a war against Iran as insanity, and they are working behind the scenes to stop it.  However, there are factions within the Navy and particularly the Air Force who are enthusiastic supporters of the neo-con agenda, and they are hopeful that careerists in the other services will bend to the wind and go along with the neo-con agenda.  The neo-con agenda also fits perfectly with the narrow financial interests of the Navy and the Air Force, which support huge expenditures on hardware like submarines, stealth bombers, and star wars.  This also coincides with the interests of pork-barrel politicians in both parties who love to see those lucrative contracts get awarded to defense industries within their districts.

              I think that all of this transcends party politics.  The neo-cons are quite comfortable with McCain, as he seems to be totally in synch with their agenda, although he was "soft on torture" and I think that they probably would have preferred Romney or Giuliani.  They do not trust any Democrat, because they believe that there are too many leftists and pacifists among Democratic activists who might prevent a Democratic President from implementing their agenda of military hegemony.  If they are concerned that a Democrat might win in November, that will give them an additional incentive to start a war with Iran before then.  McCain actually articulated the thinking in his victory speech last night: if you make it a fait accompli that we are militarily engaged in Iran, just as we are already engaged in Iraq, then any President, Democrat or Republican, will have no choice but to deal with that reality.

              While Israel has emotional appeal to some of the Jewish neo-cons, I believe that Israel is really only a pawn in this overall global strategy.  Similarly, nonsense talk about "Islamofascism" is just a useful bogeyman that helps sell the agenda.

              •  good post (0+ / 0-)

                Though I don't think it is only "neocons" who seek what you describe as US global military hegemony. I don't think Kissinger is designated a neocon, but I believe he and his people pursued the same goal. As did Reagan's people, many of whom are not identified as "neocons." Even if you were to ask most Democratic officeholders and stategists whether they wished the US to remain the dominant military power in the world, nearly all, at least in public, would answer "yes." Sad fact is, I think most Americans are perfectly comfortable with the notion of US global military hegemony. American exceptionalism, "we're #1," and all that . . . .

                •  This is true, the question is whether they would (0+ / 0-)

                  aggressively push for wars of conquest in the Middle East while promoting a virulently Islamophobic big lie (the reference is deliberate) to build up support for this. PNAC and its ideological fellow-travelers do have a very distinctive vision of the world. I think there is a there there, as far as neoconservativism being an ideological movement is concerned. The people who invented the neocon ideas are not a vague, loose confederacy, they are a fairly distinct group. Which is probably a good thing to emphasize, in order to keep the term "neocons" from sounding like (or, God forbid, becoming, for some people) a code for "the Jews".

                  The only loose confederacy here is the (mostly) Republican politicians that support them. It's a lot easier to be specific talking about who neocon thinkers are than it is to say who the neocon politicians are. The politicians are not publishing the papers, they just happen to support the policies, or not, and that could be for any number of reasons. Also it doesn't hurt that PNAC has all of their open letters and statements with many people's signatures on them. You can see who was originally involved in putting forward those ideas. PNAC I think includes most of them.

                  Whenever we dumb down the political debate, we lose. -Barack Obama

                  by klizard on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 07:49:27 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Not everyone (0+ / 0-)

              who has signed the various PNAC statements is a Republican.  In fact some names of Democrats can be found in the list.

              Reel Bad Arabs: a crash course on Orientalism

              by Rusty Pipes on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:05:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  meeting of Israelis and US Christozionist (0+ / 0-)

      crazies in US congress is planned for tomorrow.

      On Feb 20, 2008, US State Dept Commission on International Religious Freedom held hearings on Iran.  Jeff Feltman, the US ambassador butcher of Lebanon at the time Israel destroyed that country and dropped 1 million cluster bombs on it, said Iran was making life unbearable for Jews in Iran.  When questioned further by Commission members, he said he didn't have actual statistics......

      Four other panelists, including two Iranians, pleaded with the Commission to keep US propagandists & infiltrators OUT of Iran, that Iran is capable of solving its own problems.

      But that will not suit Netanyahu and his big bucks backer Sheldon Adelson.  It is not unthinkable that the goal of the destruction of Iran is to create another profit center for Israeli businessmen.

      It is truly disgusting.  

      Every prophet knows that nobody loves you for being the enemy of their illusions. --Wm Sloane Coffin.

      by Orpheus on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:27:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  tut-tut is not really a condemnation (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    wu ming, Owllwoman, Terra Mystica

    The stark truth is that Israel won and the government can do anything they want.  Well, if they want to kill some specific number of Palestinians, they have to do it in moderation and in stages.

    But, as this diary points out, you cannot win if your goals contradict each other.  Have a cake or eat it?

    Although, I think that some people like the way things are.  As one "Fractured Fairy Tale" relates:

    Sir Walter found an abandoned castle with a sleeping princess.  He was just about to awake her with a kiss, but then he had a Eureka! moment: "Awake, she is just another princess, asleep, she is worth a fortune!", and he built a theme park around the castle.

    Our defence budget is predicated on having mortal enemies, who, in words of Sen. Lieberman, are worse than ANYTHING our country faced before.  And who they are?  North Korea because they are Nasty Nastovishes (why South Korea cannot handle them, with twice the population and 20 times GNP?) and Iran.  And why Iran?  Because they sponsor terrorists, that's why!  And whom they sponsor?  Hamas and Hezbollah.

    Now imagine a long term ceasefire with both, and taking them from the list of terrorist organizations.  Suddenly, our defense budget has no justification!  Of course, there is still Chavez and Lukashenko, and what, Muslim terrorists in Philipines (where? what? who cares?), but there is no zazz.

  •  And so it continues... (7+ / 0-)

    "A two-week-old Palestinian infant was killed after nightfall on Tuesday in a brief Israel Defense Forces ground operation in the southern Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials said, just a day after Israel ended a bloody offensive in northern Gaza against Palestinian rocket squads.

    A senior Islamic Jihad operative, Yussuf Samiri, was also killed. Israeli defense officials said that Samiri had been the intended target of the operation."

  •  Today on Democracy Now they had a man on who (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Johnny Rapture, BYw

    wrote a book called "All the Shahs Men".  He went on to discuss the take down of the Iranian Gov. by the US.  Because of what the US did, four wars followed that wouldn't have happened if the US had not taken down the Iran Gov. He called it the Unintended Consequences.  We never learn from History.

    "Though the Mills of the Gods grind slowly,Yet they grind exceeding small."

    by Owllwoman on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 04:04:57 PM PDT

    •  Yes, Stephen Kinzer (6+ / 0-)

      it's called "blowback" - when secret CIA operations result in unintended negative consequences down the line. Iran is an excellent example of this.

      Whether the U.S./Israeli campaign to destroy and subvert Palestinian self-determination will lead to any significant blowback, I'm not sure. Either way, it's totally immoral and is the primary obstacle to a lasting peace in the region.

      •  Yes, that was his name. He laid out how each war (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Orpheus

        happened because the US took down the Iranian Gov.

        "Though the Mills of the Gods grind slowly,Yet they grind exceeding small."

        by Owllwoman on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 04:29:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  combination of Kinzer, (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Eiron

        Trita Parsi's book, "Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Israel, Iran, and the US," and the book about the CIA, "Legacy of Ashes," should be enough to make every American feel the need for a very thorough housecleaning of the American foreign policy establishment.

        Every prophet knows that nobody loves you for being the enemy of their illusions. --Wm Sloane Coffin.

        by Orpheus on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:34:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Kinzer has spent the last 5 weeks touring (0+ / 0-)

      the country --- 22 cities in 35 days -- sponsored by www.justforeignpolicy.org.

      He's a helluva guy.

      Every prophet knows that nobody loves you for being the enemy of their illusions. --Wm Sloane Coffin.

      by Orpheus on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:31:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Meh. (6+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dvo, arielle, blueness, Eric S, dfb1968, wxlr

    Stopped reading here:

    Israel's operation ("Warm Winter") did nothing to stop the Qassams, which are themselves primarily a response to Israeli attacks.

    ...because this is obviously and demonstrably untrue, as the diarist knows. But I gather that the rest of it is another exculpatory piece on Hamas, yet another glowing defense of shooting rockets at civilians. Of course, because said rockets are hidden pre-deployment in civilian areas - itself a war crime - the inevitable counter-attacks will cause casualt