Daily Kos

Health Care - How about DENTAL care too?

Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 01:54:26 AM PDT

Jeffrey Feldman has a recommended diary prompted by the 60 Minutes report on healthcare - how a charity founded to help poor third world citizens is now serving AMERICANS.

http://www.dailykos.com/...

I saw that same report and was outraged - but not all that surprised.  Health insurance - or the lack of it - is a driving force in the lives of too many.  People put off treatment for anything but the worst problems simply because they cannot afford treatment. The real irony is that if they go to an emergency room and ARE treated for anything, the resulting bill will often be double or triple what it would have cost anyone else.  Insurance companies routinely knock down charges - and hospitals simply take what they're paid.  

But I'm off topic here.  One aspect of that report was startling - astounding actually.  

As I recall, something like 1000 people had fillings put in and something like 900 people had teeth pulled during the two days of treatment covered in the show.

Think about that......

Something NEVER talked about in the 'Health Care' debates is dental care.

Yet an astounding number of people simply can't afford to go to the dentist.  Dental insurance is even rarer than Health Insurance.

People put off treatment for cavities until teeth rot.  Bad teeth - which could have been saved if treated earlier - get pulled.  Often the person pulling that bad tooth is the sufferer themself - or some friend.  Get out the pliers.......Echoes of frontier 'dentisty' of 150 years ago.

I recall an article some time back noting that the condition of one's teeth said more about one's social position and class than anything else.  A smile could reveal an impeccably white set of straight cavity free teeth - or empty sockets and crooked teeth.  The image presented by people with truly bad teeth effectively keeps them out of certain jobs more than any lack of skill.  

Bad teeth are a brand as clear as that left by a hot iron on someone's cheek.... people are marked as 'poor' - and often with that 'uneducated' or 'ignorant' or worse.  The stereotypical 'Appalachian poor' is always marked by a toothless smile, right?

I'm ignoring of course the all too real pain and infections usually suffered by those with bad teeth.

I have some sympathy - and experience - in this area.

My own teeth were horribly crooked as a child.  Really bad.  My parents could not afford treatment - even after my mother went back to work.  Plenty of kids at school had braces but they weren't cheap.  Only the 'rich' kids had them - or so it seemed to me.  I wasn't all that aware of our 'socio-economic' status as a kid but knew we sure didn't have what a lot of other people had.  Didn't bother me - except when I didn't get that $29 'Fort Apache' set for Christmas one year.  Hand-me-downs were a regular thing.  Other kids went through the same.  You had a pretty wide range of incomes in town.  We were the 'blue collar' town between two really affluent ones.  Westchester wasn't uniformly wealthy then (still isn't actually though it's gotten a LOT more expensive).

We were lucky.  NY state had a program that paid for orthodontic work for those that could not afford it.  You had to be pretty bad to qualify.  I was.

One problem though.  The state didn't pay all that much, and the amount was fixed.  Orthodontists voluntarily took on the work but had a great incentive to get the job done as cheaply as possible - with not all that much 'checking up' as I recall.

Well, anyone with old metal band braces knows what a pain they were.  I had them on for 6 years.   It turned out that you're SUPPOSED to have them all removed at least once a year so teeth can be inspected and cavities filled.  Braces are NOT easy to clean - making regular check-ups important.  However removing these bands every year was time consuming and expensive (take them off and put everything back).... My orthodontist didn't do this.....  I suppose my parents naively assumed that the orthodontist was paying attention to the rest of my dental health - though he was not.

When the braces finally came off my teeth were much straighter but all those rear molars (which had bands on for 6 years - and were really hard to clean) were full of cavities.  I suppose in retrospect there were grounds for taking action against the guy but you didn't think that way back then - not looking for any excuse to sue, with lawyers more than willing to do so.  My parents were simply thrilled that my teeth were straighter.

When I started West Point in '72 I remember being surprised at how many plebes were getting braces and how many spent so much time at the dentist.  A lot of my classmates were there (as was I to a certain extent) because it WAS a free education - a form of indentured servitude actually costing 5 years of your life.  Vietnam was still hot, Nixon actually ESCALATED while we were there..... (I resigned but that's another story). The Army was really good in making sure that future officers LOOKED like officers even if they came from a pretty deprived background.  And the way things were at that point in time, USMA wasn't competing with the Ivy League....   Wouldn't surprise me today if many recruits for the Army spend a good amount of time at the Dentist making up for past neglect.  Too many recruits are there because it's the only work they CAN get.

Moving on in time....

I paid for those long term consequences for years..... when first married, we were lucky enough to have an understanding dentist I could pay off in installments.  He regularly repaired teeth that were falling apart - teeth that really needed crowns I could not afford.  Those molars rotted in the center and from the sides - leaving four corners of tooth that regularly broke off - one at a time.  Getting Wisdom teeth removed was more painful financially in my twenties - an oral surgeon was expensive.  My plain old dentist tried to save us some money but the first one he tried would NOT come out and he had to send me off to a surgeon with the extraction undone to be completed.  But there were still some real 'crunches' - we owed him $400 for too long a time when we simply didn't have any money for payments.

I can't imagine what I paid out every year in getting all those cavities redone and patched further........

We never did have any dental insurance - though I had decent benefits at most of the jobs I held.  Only in the past few years - when money has not been a routinely pressing issue - have I not worried regularly about going to the dentist.  

Truth is that there's little left to do now.  At about the same time I started having 'catastrophic and irrepairable' failures, I could finally afford to do what was needed.

All those molars now have crowns - at a total cost that exceeded what I paid for the first new car I ever bought (well into my late 30's at the time BTW).  Such an expense would have bankrupted us early in our marriage and remains unaffordable for most of the US population.  I don't know what I'd be doing - or have done - if I could not paid for that work. makes you wonder how all the others that had state financed dental work have fared over the years.

Of course the irony in all this is that regular treatment costing a TENTH or TWENTIETH of what I've spent over the years would have made all this work unnecessary.

My own children have coatings and regular treatment which makes cavities a rarity - and it has nothing to do with the things they eat or how well they brush......  It's not cheap but worth the cost.  So far it looks like we'll escape braces.  Funny how that is almost the norm now for middle class - or upper middle class - kids.

Of course, coatings and regular check ups could prevent real problems in ALL kids - cutting long term costs dramatically - but that's simply not happening for a large proportion of our population.

makes you wonder how hard it could possibly be to train technicians to do basic work like coating teeth - and what the cost of such a program would be?   Far cheaper in the long term than its absence but......not happening, is it...

We don't think much about dental health being important - until we need a root canal or have a major infection.....  people get used to bad teeth and can put off treatment for eons - you can always get one pulled if it gets too bad, right?  Not THAT hard to do..... Remember Tom Hanks in Castaway?  Alot easier with a good pair of pliers or vise-grips.  I know people that have pulled their own teeth - it's not that unusual (sadly).

So.... bad teeth aren't likely to kill you - though they can and do on rare occasions.  However they can be an ever-present source of pain.  They can affect your basic nutrition - making it hard for you to eat.  They can embarass you immensely - marking you as someone too poor to afford dental care.

How utterly absurd......  and unfortunately not so unusual.

People today - in an industrialized nation - regularly getting teeth pulled because they couldn't afford the care necessary to take care of their teeth.

We have an astounding dihotomy in this country where those that can afford dental care may have titanium implants installed to anchor 'new' teeth when a tooth cannot be salvaged or high tech crowns used to repair severely damaged teeth - in contrast to those who simply live without teeth and have them pulled when they can't be repaired.

Hell, even the Russians had state provided dental care for basic things like cavities.....

I found some intersting stats

from:

http://www.statemaster.com/...

Health Statistics > Oral health > Loss of natural teeth (most recent) by state
VIEW DATA:    Totals  
Definition     Source      Printable version    

    Bar Graph     Map     Correlations  

Showing latest available data. Rank   States   Amount  (top to bottom)    
#1   West Virginia: 42.8%  
#2   Kentucky: 38.1%  
#3   Tennessee: 32.2%  
#4   Alabama: 31.9%  
#5   Louisiana: 31.3%  
#6   Oklahoma: 31.1%  
#7   Mississippi: 29.5%  
#8   North Carolina: 28.3%  
#9   Georgia: 28.2%  
#10   Kansas: 27.8%  
#11   Indiana: 27.3%  
#12   South Dakota: 26.1%  
#13   Missouri: 25.2%  
#14   North Dakota: 24.9%  
#15   Arkansas: 24.6%  
#16   Puerto Rico: 24.5%  
#17   Maine: 24.2%  
#18   Pennsylvania: 23.7%  
#19   Iowa: 23.2%  
#20   Nebraska: 23.1%  
#21   Alaska: 23%  
#22   Idaho: 22.4%  
#23   New Mexico: 21.8%  
#24   South Carolina: 21.8%  
#25   Wyoming: 21.8%  
#26   Vermont: 21.2%  
#27   Delaware: 21.1%  
#28   New Hampshire: 21%  
#29   Ohio: 20.4%  
#30   Montana: 19.6%  
#31   Wisconsin: 19.6%  
#32   Virginia: 19.3%  
#33   District of Columbia: 19.3%  
#34   Florida: 18.7%  
#35   Illinois: 18.7%  
#36   Rhode Island: 18.4%  
#37   Colorado: 18%  
#38   Oregon: 17.7%  
#39   Michigan: 17.1%  
#40   New Jersey: 16.9%  
#41   Texas: 16.8%  
#42   New York: 16.8%  
#43   Maryland: 16.6%  
#44   Nevada: 16.5%  
#45   Massachusetts: 16.4%  
#46   Washington: 16.1%  
#47   Arizona: 14.9%  
#48   US Virgin Islands: 14.6%  
#49   Minnesota: 14.3%  
#50   California: 13.7%  
#51   Utah: 13.5%  
#52   Connecticut: 12.4%  
Weighted average: 22.1%    

DEFINITION: Adults aged 65+ who have had all their natural teeth extracted. NOTE: Data for Hawaii is not available.

SOURCE: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System Survey Data. Atlanta, Georgia: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 2004.

Hmmm.. there may be something to those 'stereotypes' linking poverty and toothless grins.....  I expect there's a pretty strong correlation to median income there - from lowest to highest.  Let's look - reverse the order of THIS listing and compare

http://www.census.gov/...

New Hampshire 57,352 938 4  0  45    
New Jersey 56,772 920 5  0  44    
Maryland 56,763 1,067 5  0  44    
Connecticut 55,970 1,089 5  0  44    
Minnesota 55,914 842 5  0  44    
Alaska 54,627 992 6  1  42    
Virginia 53,275 969 4  5  40    
Hawaii 53,123 1,049 4  5  40    
Massachusetts 52,354 959 5  6  38    
Colorado 51,022 994 6  6  37    
Utah 50,614 707 4  8  37    
Delaware 50,152 1,071 5  8  36    
California 49,894 543 4  9  36    
Washington 48,688 840 4  11  34    
Wisconsin 47,220 782 5  13  31    
Nevada 46,984 991 5  13  31    
Rhode Island 46,199 997 7  14  28    
Illinois 45,787 669 6  14  29    
Vermont 45,692 747 10  14  25    
Nebraska 44,623 888 14  16  19    
Michigan 44,476 704 13  16  20    
Pennsylvania 44,286 619 13  17  19    
New York 44,228 545 12  18  19    
Ohio 44,160 642 14  18  17    
Missouri 43,988 710 13  19  17    
Kansas 43,725 981 14  18  17    
Wyoming 43,641 743 13  19  17    
District of Columbia 43,003 813   0    
Georgia 43,217 667 13  19  17    
Iowa 43,042 846 13  19  17    
Indiana 43,003 686 13  19  17    
Oregon 42,617 688 10  23  16    
Arizona 42,590 873 13  20  16    
Idaho 42,519 824 10  23  16    
Texas 41,275 458 5  30  14    
South Dakota 40,518 706 6  33  10    
Florida 40,171 536 6  33  10    
North Dakota 39,594 695 8  34  7    
Maine 39,395 721 9  34  6    
South Carolina 39,326 807 9  34  6    
North Carolina 39,000 598 9  34  6    
Tennessee 38,550 807 8  36  5    
Oklahoma 38,281 603 8  36  5    
Alabama 38,111 962 8  36  5    
New Mexico 37,587 902 7  37  5    
Kentucky 37,396 700 4  40  5    
Louisiana 35,523 859 2  45  2    
Montana 35,201 734 3  45  1    
Arkansas 33,948 606 4  45  0    
Mississippi 33,659 719 3  46  0    
West Virginia 32,589 687 2  47  0    
     
1/ The 3-year-average median is the sum of 3 inflation-adjusted single-year medians divided by 3.    
2/ Excludes the District of Columbia.    
Source:  U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey,  2003, 2004, and 2005 Annual Social and Economic Supplements.  

Something of a correlation - though perhaps we should be looking back further - 40 or 50 year or so to incomes when those in the first chart were younger....

speaking of which......

This link addresses children's unmet needs:

http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/...

from:

http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/...

In 2004, more than 50 percent of children without health insurance had not seen a dentist in the past year, and more than one in five needed dental care but did not receive it for financial reasons. In contrast to children with insurance, 21 percent of uninsured children had unmet dental needs, compared with 4 percent of children covered by private insurance and 8 percent of those covered by public insurance (mostly Medicaid)...........

Differences by Race/Ethnicity6

In 2004, non-Hispanic black children were less likely than Hispanic children to have unmet dental needs (6 percent versus 10 percent, respectively).

Twenty-three percent of non-Hispanic white children, 27 percent of non-Hispanic black children, and 34 percent of Hispanic children had not been to the dentist within the past year in 2004. (See Figure 1) Among Hispanic children, 36 percent of Mexican or Mexican American children had not been to the dentist with the past year.

Note: Estimates for 1999-2004 reflect the new Office of Management and Budget race definitions, and include only those who are identified with a single race. Hispanics may be of any race.

> Back to Top

Differences by Health Insurance Coverage

In 2004, uninsured children were much more likely than children with Medicaid/public insurance and children with private insurance to have unmet dental needs (21 percent, versus 8 percent and 4 percent, respectively). (See Figure 2)
Fifty percent of uninsured children had not been to the dentist within the past year in 2004. Twenty-nine percent of children with Medicaid or other public health insurance and 18 percent of children with private health insurance had not been to the dentist in the past year. (See Table 1)

Differences by Poverty Status

In 2004, 10 percent of children in poor families and 11 percent of children in near poor families had unmet dental needs, compared with 4 percent of children in not poor families.
Thirty-five percent of children from poor families, 31 percent of children from near-poor families, and 18 percent of children from non-poor families had not been to the dentist within the past year in 2004. (See Table 1)

Note: Children from poor families are defined as those living in families below the poverty threshold, based on family income and family size using the U.S. Census Bureau's poverty thresholds for the previous calendar year. Children from near-poor families are in families with incomes between 100 and 200 percent of the poverty threshold. Children from not-poor families are in families with incomes 200 percent or greater.

.................

An interesting report on Britain's dental performance is here:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/...

A cursory review seems to indicate that there's merit to a national health care system as far as dental needs go though there does seem to be a supply and demand problem..... Ironic if the British are doing a better job with kids teeth than we are.....

Tags: Health Care, dental care, Rescued (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 21 comments

  •  Eye care another surprising part of the report (17+ / 0-)

    on 60 Minutes - the number of people needing eyeglasses was remarkable.... but that should be covered under regular "Health Care"

    Astounds me that basic care is simply unaffordable for so many in a nation this wealthy.....

    (well....it's not unaffordable, it's just that the $$$ spent on health care are going to insurance companies and administrative costs instead of direct treatment - reallocate all that money and I bet you can pay for health AND dental care for everyone.)

  •  there was a sad sad NYT story relating to this (9+ / 0-)

    not long ago.  I didn't notice it in your diary so here's the link:  In Kentucky, the toll of poverty

    Among other memorable passages:

    He has seen the shame of a 14-year-old girl who would not lift her head because she had lost most of her teeth from malnutrition, and the do-it-yourself pride of an elderly mountain man who, unable to afford a dentist, pulled his own infected teeth with a pair of pliers.

    At his private practice, Dr. Smith said that at least once a month he sees a patient who has used Krazy Glue to reattach a broken tooth to the root or to an adjacent tooth.

    Dr. Smith said some people assumed that if their parents and grandparents lost their teeth before they were 40, they would too. They figure no teeth, no costly toothaches, so they pre-emptively pull them.

    "Try finding work when you’re in your 30s or 40s and you’re missing front teeth" . . . .

  •  interesting (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    marina, trashablanca, Eloise

    the three states I've lived in (New Jersey, Maryland, California) are amongst the states with the least natural tooth loss.

    anyway, i put off dental work or even dental checkups for about 4 years because even though the states I've lived in do quite well financially, i was doing very poorly. in the last 2 years (in California) I finally got health and dental insurance. i got dental work a few months back — top wisdom teeth extracted, two cavities filled — and it ended up costing me $550. yes, that's with insurance.

    my boyfriend used to get dental work at Mission of Mercy in western maryland which was free but you had to wait quite a bit. i should've gone that route. although it worked out well for him at the time, i was always a bit squeamish about getting dental work in an RV.

    anyway, just some anecdotes. dental health is quite important. dental infections, abscesses, etc can lead to serious health problems if left unchecked.

    nice diary.

    Cure This : Let's talk about health justice

    by nalin on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 02:06:58 AM PDT

  •  Dental Care, Eye Care IS Health Care n/t (9+ / 0-)

    "When will our consciences grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?"--Eleanor Roosevelt

    by KJC MD on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 02:13:51 AM PDT

  •  there are... (7+ / 0-)

    ...strong links between gum disease and other condition like heart problems.

    Dental health is very important to overall health.

    We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

    by delver rootnose on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 02:35:56 AM PDT

  •  We should have Universal Health care, period (6+ / 0-)

    That includes dental (poor dental health leads to misery, heart disease, and even death), mental care (obviously), and importantly preventative care to keep people healthy.  It should be free, universal, and easily obtained.  Anything short of that and we're just fucking ourselves over as a society.

    Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

    by bythesea on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 02:38:11 AM PDT

  •  Absolutely (6+ / 0-)

    Dental care and mental health care should be included.  We would have the means to reform our health care system to provide the comprehensive care, but the 10 billion a month we are wasting in Iraq will prevent it.  Bush has added nearly 5 trillion to the federal debt since he slithered into the White House, effectively handicapping the government's ability to meet the needs of American citizens.  When Social Security and Medicare fail, we have a nationwide Katrina.

    Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by DWG on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 02:49:02 AM PDT

  •  Believe me, you (7+ / 0-)

    don't have to be anywhere NEAR "poor" to be unable to afford dental care.  And dentists generally no longer take payments, they want money up front or do not care for you, period.  

    Don't imagine dental schools are generally an option either.  They are swamped and only take cases they need, and your odds of getting picked are not good.

    I know all this through very miserable personal experience.  I wrote a couple diaries on this subject.  Dental care, lack of it and attempting to pay for it, has made my life pretty miserable for five years now.  

    •  I do live in a depressed area and (5+ / 0-)

      we still have one dentist who takes payments.  Needless to say he is very busy.  I have a friend whoes husband had a toothache and took him to a dentist who didn't take payments.  It costs her 400 dollars to get two fron  teeth removed. Simple extractions and yet it costs 400 dollars.

      "Though the Mills of the Gods grind slowly,Yet they grind exceeding small."

      by Owllwoman on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:38:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I sat down (7+ / 0-)

        and called 40 dentists in one day, desperate to find one that took payments...batted zero.  I can only imagine how busy that one in your area is.

        At one point, in tears (I had several infected teeth), I asked the office administrator I was talking to, "What am I supposed to do?  What?"  and was told, "Go to Mexico."

        If I could afford to go to Mexico to have work done, I would have.  At that point (and my situation has not improved) I could not afford to go anywhere that cost more than $10 worth of gas.

        So - that is the US dental care plan:

        1. pull them yourself
        1. Go to Mexico
        1. suffer and perhaps die

        This is not a civilized nation.

  •  Exactly right, and a moral atrocity. (7+ / 0-)

    Malcolm Gladwell had a brilliant take on this here, in one of his first prominent articles. Dental care is at best an after-thought to discussions on health insurance and access to care.

    I think this is the unfortunate result of interactions between contraction of health insurance availability and the mercenary impulse of dentists. The number of folks with meaningful dental insurance is far smaller than that with health insurance, and falling like a stone. Meanwhile, dentists are devoting most of their efforts to aggressively chasing the affluent "cosmetic dentistry" market. There are numerous television commercials in our market for implants, porcelain veneers, etc. for the well off looking to spiff that smile.
    For poor kids and adults with teeth rotting out of their heads? It's the pliers in the garage, pal.

  •  Remember its really about CARE not INSURANCE. (6+ / 0-)

    The thing with dental care is that there is a decent amount you just need as preventative maintenance. I have pretty damn good (knock on wood) teeth and it always costs at least $350 a year or so.

    I also sometimes wonder about the "dental lobby". Are they just not as powerful as the medical lobby?

    It's the constitution, stupid

    by CTMET on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:59:20 AM PDT

  •  and what about hearing aids? (7+ / 0-)

    If the elderly can't understand what the doctor is telling them....

    If a child can't hear the teacher and participate in class....

    If the parent can't understand their boss....

  •  Those bad teeth which do not kill you (4+ / 0-)

    can surely make you sick!
    I was sick for quite some time before my first root canal! Didn't know it until I got better though. I realized that my lack of energy, blah, low grade fever had been around for many months.

    I had good dental care as a child and young adult. That lapsed for the next 20 years, except for occasional cleanings and replacement of popcorn popped fillings.

    Finally got dental insurance at about 40 yrs of age. Had it for 2 years, and did root canals and crowns as benefits permitted. Lost it, due to Corporate greed (not enough people are using it, so that means they don't want it, so we're stopping it).

    I just spent the last couple of years trying to wait to get ins, and as a result, have had one tooth extracted, and am struggling to get another canal/crown done. I got tired of being sick again. Low grade sick for months, then an abscess which made me deal with it. Price has gone up about 40% since the last ones, hence my malingering. But my dentist is giving me some breaks, and I am proceeding with the work.

    I have to lol at the continued meme that this nation is wealthy. This nation is bankrupt. Except for the Corporate Elite, of course.

    Hands off my Social Security, John McCain.

    by emmasnacker on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:52:10 AM PDT

  •  the two or three people (4+ / 0-)

    I've known who were most particular about their dental hygiene also had the worst teeth.  Some people are blessed with teeth that can withstand seemingly anything, and others have teeth that rot regardless of the care and cleaning they get.  My great-aunt, who struggled her entire life to deal with bad teeth (while her sister never had a cavity in 98 years), used to say "good teeth are like money in the bank".  

    For a boy in the DC area, bad teeth were a death sentence, not too long ago:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    'The votes are in, and we won.' - Jim Webb, 11/07/2006

    by lcork on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:57:44 AM PDT

  •  Twice I've had teeth pulled (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    trashablanca, kurt

    because I couldn't afford to have them fixed, and the pain was so excruciating I could no longer think coherently.

    Once, I had a small insurance policy that paid a pittance for me to suffer through the jaw-cracking agony of having my tooth pulled, and once I paid full price for the privilege despite not being able to afford it.

    Both times the pain became unbearable, and I would have done anything to stop it. I'm not sure, however, if I could have pulled my own teeth.

    I have had two children by natural childbirth, without even an epidural, and neither labor and delivery hurt as much as the pain I had in my teeth.

    When I read that story about RAM and I got to the part about the people who were there to have more than 1,000 teeth pulled, I started crying. It's so wrong that in this country anyone should have to suffer so much pain. If I had any money or medical talent, it would be going to that organization. As it is, I'm unemployed and darn near homeless, so I just keep hoping that I hold together until something changes in my life for the better.

    Dental care and vision care ARE health care, and people need to start realizing it. Thanks for your diary.

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