Daily Kos

Michigan and Florida Governors' Tag-Team:  Seat Us

Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:34:35 PM PDT

The timing of this could not be more perfect.  On the day after the night before, when John McCain sewed up the Republican nomination, and afer allowing sufficent time for him to collect the official kiss on the cheek from his new benefactor--and former adversary--George Bush, another unlikely tag-team act has formed to promote the candidacy of the one candidate that truly unites half the Democratic Party with that portion of the GOP that voted Hillary Clinton "Most Likely to Lose to John McCain."

In a joint statement signed by Michigan governor, Jennifer Granholm, and Florida governor, Charlie Crist, the two parties have been petitioned to seat their respective states' delegations to the national conventions.

In full, the governors have written:

Joint Statement from Florida Governor Charlie Crist and Michigan Governor Jennifer M. Granholm

"The right to vote is at the very foundation of our democracy. This primary season, voters have turned out in record numbers to exercise that right, and it is reprehensible that anyone would seek to silence the voices of 5,163,271 Americans. It is intolerable that the national political parties have denied the citizens of Michigan and Florida their votes and voices at their respective national conventions.

According to the DNC and RNC, Florida and Michigan have violated party rules by moving up their primaries. Today, we each will call upon our respective state and national party chairs to resolve this matter and to ensure that the voters of Michigan and Florida are full participants in the formal selection of their parties’ nominees. We must restore the rights of the more than 5 million voters whose voices have been silenced."

Clearly, the intenet here is for the DNC to seat the Michigan and Florida delegation in order to benefit Hillary Clinton's candidacy.  Granholm's motivation is clear; she was an early endorser of Clinton's.  For Crist, though, the motivation has to be something more than that he wants to be seen by Democrats as some knight in shining armor, championing their cause to the king makers at the DNC or that John McCain needs the other half of the Florida's delegation for any purpose whatsoever.  

Only the Democratic race can be effected by this move, and it's more than realistic to believe that Crist is doing what he can to promote the Clinton's bid because he believes that she is an easier mark for McCain,  for whom Crist perfectly timed his personal endorsement.

This joint statement comes on the day that it will be seen in the most favorable light: the day Clinton can argue most credibly that she is back in the race--in spite of the fact that most savvy watchers of this race know that her gains in actual delegates was less than impressive.

So comes Phase III.  After the split of the battlefield as of Super Tuesday, and the post-Februay 5 11-state streak, now begins Clinton's March to Pennsylvania.  During this phase, Clinton will tear up the rail tracks in an effort to change the only thing that matters: the delegate math.  Just as she will turn up the heat on Obama by going negative and attempt to stop his momentum even further by a full-frontal assault on unpledged delegates (now a "primary" in its own right), the jewels in the crown will be the attempted seating of these two delegations, even if by a re-vote, that given the results from Ohio, she has to believe she can now win outright.

So now it's going to get ugly--about 7 weeks worth of ugly--just in time for Pennsylvania to fall.

Update [2008-3-5 19:13:50 by GOTV]: The AP is reporting that there may be a deal to re-vote in Michigan and possibly Florida.

Update [2008-3-5 22:53:9 by GOTV]:  Howard Dean weighs in:

"We're glad to hear that the Governors of Michigan and Florida are willing to lend their weight to help resolve this issue. As we've said all along, we strongly encourage the Michigan and Florida state parties to follow the rules, so today's public overtures are good news. The rules, which were agreed to by the full DNC including representatives from Florida and Michigan over 18 months ago, allow for two options. First, either state can choose to resubmit a plan and run a party process to select delegates to the convention; second, they can wait until this summer and appeal to the Convention Credentials Committee, which determines and resolves any outstanding questions about the seating of delegates. We look forward to receiving their proposals should they decide to submit new delegate selection plans and will review those plans at that time. The Democratic Nominee will be determined in accordance with party rules, and out of respect for the presidential campaigns and the states that did not violate party rules, we are not going to change the rules in the middle of the game.

"Through all the speculation, we should also remember the overwhelming enthusiasm and turnout that we have already seen, and respect the voters of the ten states who have yet to have their say.

"As we head towards November, our nominee must have the united support of a strong Democratic Party that's ready to fight and ready to beat John McCain. After seven years of Republican rule, I am confident that we will elect a Democratic president who will fight for America's families in the White House. Now we must hear from the voters in twelve states and territories who have yet to make their voices heard."

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Charlie Crist, Jennifer Granholm, Michigan, Florida, election 2008, president (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 56 comments

  •  Insisting to seat (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    GOTV, highacidity, blueyedace2

    delegates of a state in which Obama was not even on the ballot is voter disenfranchisement, and Hillary knows it. Doesnt care... but at least she knows it.

    Courage is much more than bravery on a battlefield; it can mean acting according to your beliefs whatever the consequences. -JFK

    by LieparDestin on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:37:16 PM PDT

    •  That's true of Michigan (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      GOTV

      not Florida.  

      The frogurt is also cursed. -8.25, -6.51

      by Superribbie on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:39:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Disenfranchisement (0+ / 0-)

      There's a lot of that going around. The way the primary is setup is part of the reason for the current situation (open primaries/caucuses, closed caucuses, proportional delegate allocations, etc...)

      A lot of people have been calling for the party leaders to force Clinton to quit. I'm not so sure how women voters (or those who voted or gave money to Clinton in general) are going to like that either.

      It will play out. The DNC will follow its rules. Any other speculation about 'stealing' the election just makes the entire party look bad as if the party itself is corrupt.

  •  Crist.... (0+ / 0-)

    It might be that he wants to get Democratic support, but he already is a popular Governor.

    More than likely he's just sticking his nose in because, as most Floridians who aren't sitting on their bums in Tallahassee all the time doing nothing, think that the Florida voters should be heard.

    Obviously, some like Bill Nelson want the votes already taken to count, but I would guess, if Clinton decides to stay in it - at it seems she does, that they're going to have to start planning for a revote within the next few weeks.

    My guess: The Tuesday after Puerto Rico.

    •  My point about him currying Democratic favor (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Superribbie

      was completely tongue-in-cheek.  He doesn't give a rat's ass about pleasing or pissing off Democrats; he wants McCain to face Clinton, and as the first part of that equation is in the bag, he's working on the second part.

      •  Usually... (0+ / 0-)

        ...I would agree with that, with most politicians. And, as much as I hate to admit it, I don't think that's the reason.

      •  I think he wants as much turmoil in Democratic (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        emptywheel, Cordelia Lear

        politics for as long as it can last. I don't think he cares who the final candidate is. It's about the turmoil and negative campaigning that's the inevitable result of internecine campaigning. The best result for him is to keep the media and the electorate from examining his candidate's record as long as possible.  The media will also do a lot of the pub party's oppo research for them and that's good for pubs too.

        A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

        by dougymi on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:50:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Though (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        GOTV

        It's also significant that Crist did this on the day after McCain got the nomination. The GOP is now in hte spot the Dems thought they'd be in--where MI and FL can be seated without affecting the nomination. So MI and FL would get to send complete delegations, rather than the half they were sending.

        And by doing it with Granholm, Crist ensures both states get seated.

        Which is not to say your analysis of Crist's view on the Dem race is invalid. Just that it would have been a very different move to make two weeks ago.

        This is the way democracy ends Not with a bomb But with a gavel -Max Baucus

        by emptywheel on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:02:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm not really seeing how a revote (0+ / 0-)

    can significantly change the delegate math to favor Clinton.  

    I find it difficult to believe Obama would do worse than he did in the uncontested primary in FL, and he'd obviously do better in MI than the 0 he got in January.  Wins for Clinton would certainly solidify her "I win the big states/important swing states meme" and might help her in the popular vote totals.

    But I'm not getting the effect on the delegate math.  What am I missing GOTV?

    Any force that tries to make you feel shame for being who you are...is a form of tyranny... And it must be rejected, resisted, and defeated. ~Al Gore

    by Sinister Rae on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:38:26 PM PDT

  •  Wonder what Crist (4+ / 0-)

    said in 2000 about counting votes in Dade County? So nice of him to be so concerned about my right to vote now.

    McSame is polling ahead of both Obama and HRC in Florida.

    "The truth is rarely pure and never simple." The Importance of Being Earnest, Act I, Oscar Wilde, 1895

    by Cordelia Lear on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:38:54 PM PDT

    •  Time Frame (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      panicbean

      Crist was elected to the office of Education Commissioner of Florida in November 2000, and he served in this capacity until 2003.

      He probably did have much to say about it.

      I wouldn't give up on Florida quite yet. If that is the case, we might as well give up on all those other 'Red' states from 2000 & 2004.

      •  I never said (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        panicbean

        we should give up. I'm all for the 50 state strategy.

        My point was the irony of FL politicians who saw no reason to count all the votes in the 2000 general election and who have done nothing to change election laws to eliminate the problems that occurred then are the same folks that are now so concerned about assuring the "fairness" of Democratic primaries and caucuses.

        "The truth is rarely pure and never simple." The Importance of Being Earnest, Act I, Oscar Wilde, 1895

        by Cordelia Lear on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:54:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well call me ignorant... (0+ / 0-)

          :)

          I'm not a big follower of election reform, but I believe they have made a lot of efforts in getting rid of the ballots that caused the problem in 2000.

          And that's pretty much my level of knowledge on that. :)

          I can see the disdain for the actions of politicians in Florida, and I agree with you that they're idiots, but they're not all that much different than anywhere else.

          And, I wouldn't even be concerned about it other than my primary vote didn't count and that 'some' don't make the distinction between decisions made in Tallahassee and the average citizen in Florida. It would be like me blaming everyone on DKos for Iraq because, even if they didn't vote for Bush, they still live in America....

          •  Some of the voting machines (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            GOTV, Hedwig

            have changed (although I don't necessarily think for the better always) but election laws haven't for the most part. At the federal level they passed the provisional ballot but it's been so mis-explained and unavailable that I don't think it accomplished anything. State laws are still pretty much the same when it comes to military ballots, days and circumstances for recounts, filing deadlines, etc. In essence, we've had no election reform.

            I agree with you that we should be holding the politicians responsible for this debacle accountable.

            It cheeses me that my primary vote isn't going to count, but it cheeses me more that HRC said nothing about how not seating the Michigan delegation was unfair and would disenfranchise me until after the Florida election and she was behind in pledged delegates.

            "The truth is rarely pure and never simple." The Importance of Being Earnest, Act I, Oscar Wilde, 1895

            by Cordelia Lear on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:16:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well... (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Cordelia Lear

              I was just speaking on what little I know that has been done in Florida. :)

              I don't see why she would speak out toward anything except what would help her personally. I think she did speak about seating those delegates - the night she won Florida :) - but I believe I saw something about it in early Jan. Who knows at this point. It's not about issues anymore anyway.

              I am wondering why people still post candidate diaries here. Not just because (and yes I know I'm commenting in one :)) they just cause both sides to saunter up once again and blast away at each other, but whose mind do they think they are changing?

  •  It is not about Obama or Hillary. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Hedwig

    It is about Democracy amd the right of all people to vote and be heard. And that half of the Democratic Party that Obama pulls in, is still missing the other half of the Democratic Party that goes for Hillary. I want a voice in this election. And it is either a democratic election, or it isn't. And don't say that I or any Mi. voter violated rules. We didn't have a choice in the matter. I find it hard to believe that some people here are willing to give up my right to vote, because they want their candidate to win. Unbelievable!

    "Though the Mills of the Gods grind slowly,Yet they grind exceeding small."

    by Owllwoman on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:39:41 PM PDT

    •  The problem is that there (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      GOTV, highacidity, Hedwig

      is no fair solution other than a revote.  The DNC stripped the delegates in advance of the initial vote, and Obama yanked his name from the ballot in response.  So, without a revote, either the delegate apportionment rules in place at the time of the vote (and on which Obama at least relied) stand, meaning that the voters of Michigan don't get a say in the nomination process; or, you reward Clinton for leaving her name on the ballot in a noncampaign primary.

      From where I sit, there is a much more compelling argument to seat the Florida delegates than the Michigan ones because at least voters got to choose among the candidates.  Of course, I suppose the counterargument is that it was Obama's choice not to allow his name to be on the MI ballot.

      The frogurt is also cursed. -8.25, -6.51

      by Superribbie on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:47:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This completely misstates (at least) my (5+ / 0-)

      motivation and position regarding the seating of the Michigan delegation.  Like you, I live in that state, and my position on this has nothing to do with whether one candidate or the other id benefitted.  It has to so with the fact that when we cast our votes in the primary, these votes were cast with the absolute understanding that the delegation would not be seated.  Therefore, to vote under one set of rules, and have that vote "counted" under a wholly different set of rules completely undermines the nature of Democracy.  

      Are you really arguing that it is at at democratic and fair for it to be announced in advance of an election that the results would not be counted, and then at some point later in the process for the governing body to announce, "Hey, you know that vote we said wouldn't count?  Well, guess what?  We changed our minds: it does after all."

      That's absurd.

    •  No, for many of us it's not (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      GOTV, Mia Dolan

      It's about looking at the state (I'm in MI) and seeing the seething anger that is already there. And then looking at WHERE that seething anger will be greatest if all of a sudden the rules change after the fact: Washtenaw (where uncommitted beat Hillary) and Detroit.

      Washtenaw is likely to turn out in November anyway--though not in as great a number.

      But pissing off Detroit in this way is about the best way to ensure Dems lose the state-wide elections in MI. Detroit turnout is always fickle, and something like this may well make people to decide to stay home in November. If Detroit's voters stay home, Democrats lose the state, it's that simple.

      This is the way democracy ends Not with a bomb But with a gavel -Max Baucus

      by emptywheel on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:08:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Stick a fork in the Democratic Party (8+ / 0-)

    HRC's antics will not only wind up getting McCain elected this fall but alienate an entire generation of young Obama supporters who participated in the system for the first time.

    It's 1968 all over again.

    John McCain's Straight Talk Express runs on fossil fuels.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 02:40:58 PM PDT

  •  You nailed it (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    highacidity

    One more thing...

    This is the key sentence in the statement:

    Today, we each will call upon our respective state and national party chairs to resolve this matter

    Realizing their own legislatures are to blame, they were clear in including the state level party chairs. Notice they did not address the legislatures. They addressed the party chairs.

    Florida will not have a re-do primary. The state has to pay for a primary. The party pays for a caucus. Florida Republicans will not pay for a primary in Florida for Democrats. Caucus is the only option.

    In Michigan, it is the same issue. Caucus is their only option. The DNC will not pay for a primary. To hold a primary, you need state officials involved and voting equipment. A caucus requires neither.

    This is no longer a Republican problem. Their nominee is selected. Its a Democratic problem. We should thank Crist was for his care and interest, and the voters in Florida need to work with their respective parties and demand caucuses.

  •  Plenty of time, money for re-votes. (0+ / 0-)

    Last currently scheduled primaries or caucuses are in early-mid June. Convention doesn't start till August 28.

    Read somewhere(?) a new primary would cost about $10 million per state. HRC raised $30+ million last month, Obama raised around $50 million. Let them each give $5 million to FL and $5 million to MI,  schedule primaries or caucuses in late June, July, or early August. Let them make their cases, let the people vote fair and square, everybody's name on the ballot and everybody clear about what's at stake.

    -4.25, -4.87 "If the truth were self-evident, there would be no need for eloquence." -- Cicero

    by HeyMikey on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:04:55 PM PDT

  •  All the math (0+ / 0-)

    Has anybody figured how the elected delegate math would look at the end - if Florida and Michigan revoted, and HRC won both 60-40 (to give her the best case scenario).

  •  Never again (0+ / 0-)

    Granholm. I hope either the dems run a strong primary against her, or the Republicans run a decent candidate. Ill never vote for her again. Im starting to think that DeVos might have been better for us.

    "How often misused words generate misleading thoughts."
    ~Herbert Spencer~

    by Eidolon on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:29:01 PM PDT

  •  Our delegates should be seated as they are! (0+ / 0-)

    How did I live without him?

    by Pumpkinlove on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:31:56 PM PDT

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