Daily Kos

An Obama supporter plays Devil's Advocate (w/ poll!)

Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 08:13:16 AM PDT

Like many people here today, I was discouraged by last night's results.  Not that they were bad for Obama, but many of us were hoping for the "knockout punch" that would effectively end the Democratic primary race, so that the party could rally around the candidate we prefer.  And, like many of those same people, I woke up this morning dreading the thought of another six weeks of the Clinton campaign going hard negative and tag-teaming with Saint McMaverick, all in a quixotic quest to overcome her daunting delegate deficit.

But then I got to thinking about the big picture, and I might be changing my mind.  Tell me what you think.

Clinton's deficit of pledged delegates is pretty significant when viewed in terms of available pledged delegates remaining in the contest, no doubt.  Many excellent number-crunching analyses are available on this site and others, and number-crunching isn't my strong suit, so I'm not going to rehash.  But, even so, in terms of just raw numbers, the delegate count is not all that far apart.  Likewise, though Obama I believe leads in the total popular vote, it's not as though he's crushing her in that department, and that gap theoretically could close as the contest wears on.

So, Clinton fights on.  The lessons of Texas and Ohio include an important one: going hard negative on Obama works.  That may or may not be an accurate lesson in the long run, but being here in Ohio I can say she went hard negative and it worked.  Some of the hard negative is crappy, low-blow Rovian stuff, like the skin-darkening ad and the comment to reporters implying that McCain would be a better president than Obama.  And of course, there's the infamous 3 a.m. ad which I found laughable but which may have worked some for her where she ran it.  Hard for me honestly to say that's truly low-blow, Rovian stuff, but it certainly wasn't highbrow.  She also ran a lot of radio ads in Ohio hitting Obama on the whole Canadian embassy/NAFTA flap.  It worked.  We can all bitch and moan about it, but it worked and she's going to keep doing it, because if you find something that works and don't keep doing it then you're not a very smart campaigner.

So let's say the negative stuff keeps working, and over the next couple of months she wins most of the contests, even gets a landslide or two, and puts a dent in Obama's delegate lead.  She goes to the convention making a hard play for the Superdelegates, to the extent they remain either unpledged or soft for Obama.  We can all scream and moan about how undemocratic (both small and large "d") that is, how damaging that is to the party, etc etc.  But you know what?  She'd have a point.  Whoever the nominee is going in to the general election is going to have to attack McCain good and hard.  Of course we want a positive, inclusive message and a campaign that brings in new voters and helps build a democratic majority for some time to come.  But, we also want to win this election, the argument goes, and I can't really disagree.  And if Obama hasn't shown that he can do a good enough job fending off negative attacks by the Clinton campaign and go on offense sometimes himself, then what's the general election going to look like?  In terms of working the press and pointing out your opponent's perceived weaknesses--both of which are going to be part of the general election, whether we like it or not--this past week Clinton did a better job of that than Obama did.  He needs to step up.

Please understand that I'm not saying I agree with Clinton's overall message here.  After all, for the most part they differ more in concept ("change vs. experience") than in substantive views on health care, the economy, judicial appointments, etc.  And if the whole election becomes, as Clinton has been pushing, about experience and competence AND experience and competence gets defined as "time spent hanging around Washington," then frankly the Democrats are going to lose in November because neither one of them matches McCain on that score.  But what I am saying is that the Obama campaign needs, in my opinion at least, to view yesterday as more than just a temporary slowdown.  They need to view it as a wake-up call.  And, for that reason, maybe having the campaign continue on and even, yes, get more bare-knuckles, won't be such a bad thing after all.

Poll

The campaign continuing on is, on balance:

26%31 votes
12%15 votes
17%20 votes
30%35 votes
12%15 votes

| 116 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Primary, negative campaigning, Obama, Clinton (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 11 comments

  •  Tips? (8+ / 0-)

    I actually have to leave the computer for a little while (not trying to post-and-run), but I'll check back a bit later to see if anyone noticed the diary....

  •  Agreed . (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    gpclay, rubyr, crazyshirley2100

    1.If Obama 08 cant deal with Clinton's attacks what is he going to do when the GOP runs ads of GI Mccain battling  "Osama Hussein"  ?

    1. Obama's supperters need to get thicker skins, the campagin can only get nasiter.
    1. People do remember the GOP accused Kerry of shooting himself to get a purple heart ?

    Cicero : If you're going to back a policy do it wholeheartedly. You'll win no points for timidity.

    by PoliMorf on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 08:17:30 AM PDT

  •  You might be right (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    gpclay, neroden

    but -- it doesn't make it Right for the country as a whole

    Clinton's campaign strategy has intentionally developed into a 50+1 type of overarching strategy -- in what is essentially the exact strategy that has been the basis of Presidential Politics since the first Clinton administration

    IF You think this is an effective way to lead a country, then perhaps i concede Your point

    Personally, i think it has been incredibly destructive and 'more of the same' is going to do absolutely nothing to 'fix this country' no matter which PARTY wins ...

  •  Thinking the same thing (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    gpclay, rubyr, Psychotronicman

    It also will get a lot of press which won't be going to McCain. This is really THE political story of the season. Either Obama toughens and defeats Hillary outright in which case he will have defeated an opponent more formidable than McCain or Hillary resurrects herself and goes into the fall with a new halo of invincibility.

    •  Halo of invicibility? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      neroden

      I have a really hard time swallowing that concept after talking on line with the Limbaugh University t-shirt sporting Republican who came to caucus for Obama because he was afraid this would be his one and only chance to vote against Hillary.

  •  Would rec, but have an aversion to slanted polls. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    neroden, ubertar

    Replace 4 with 'Awful because it increases the chance of McMaverick becoming President', and ya got me.

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, Feb 17, 1755.

    by Wayward Son on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 08:22:07 AM PDT

  •  I'm thinking along the same lines you are... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    gpclay, neroden

    My biggest worry about going negative -- regardless of who is dong it -- in a primary is that all of that has a blowback on the general election.  We'll be hearing and seeing a lot of our own Democratic Primary "message content" in the fall and it will be aimed at us.  Many others have said that here too.

    I find myself musing over the speculation about the two candidates hitching up.

    I can think of many less appealing scenarios, beginning with a McCain/Rudy ticket.

    dissent not only welcome... but encouraged

    by newfie53523 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 08:25:14 AM PDT

  •  Totally agree... (3+ / 0-)

    and I am glad that you are an Obama supporter who pointed this out in a clear and non-hysterical way. It's a fact that if Obama cannot fight Carl Rove (who, by the way, is NOT off licking his wounds and who has had more time than usual to plan his nasty primary, secondary, tertiary and ad infinitum attacks) then he cannot win the general. If he cannot stand up to the Clinton attacks then he most assuredly will not be able to stand up to Rove and the 527s like the Swiftboaters (who, also by the way, will pull anything out of their ass and somehow get it to stick).

    Look at McCain in 2000...they took him down like a feather.

    I am so behind the sentiments in this diary. This is sensible and practical. Let's be sensible. If we aren't, we are going to lose the general election that was ours to win.  

  •  While I am against negative campaigning (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    neroden

    I agree with you that this is his sparring session before the big event, and perhaps this will be good for him in the long run to get ready for what is to come.

    That being said, I still think Hillary is eroding him as a candidate with all these mis-statements that the GOP will use against him again and again... and they will have MORE credence being that they were uttered from someone in his own party.

    an anonymous person once said, "A man who lies about little things, will lie about big things."

    by marley619 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 08:58:07 AM PDT

  •  You really had a couple of valid poll choices (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    neroden

    First, and foremost, it seems we can't make up our frakkin minds. As a result it is going to damage the party, quite possibly enough for us to see another Republican White House.

  •  The press is giving Clinton a break (0+ / 0-)

    because she's attacking Obama using McCain's tricks, and on the whole they've decided to back McCain.

    Unfortunately, that isn't going to help Clinton in the general election.  If she showed any sign of being able to pull off negative attacks which stuck against McCain, it would be different.  But noooo, it's all "McCain has experience!"

    It's crazy.  She's running a campaign which is virtually designed to favor McCain, even though the situation massively favors Democrats.  

    -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

    by neroden on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:40:44 AM PDT

Permalink | 11 comments