Daily Kos

The Unintended Impact of the Re-Vote Movement

Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 02:50:26 PM PDT

The talk in Florida today is that suddenly a re-vote in Florida by mail is gaining momentum.

A mail-in primary appeared to be the favorite solution Sunday as politicians and pundits grappled with how to lift the state's renegade status. A mail-in election could cost as much as $6 million, Sen. Bill Nelson said, and since Governor Dean has said he's not going to do it in the DNC, the Florida Democratic Party's going to have to go out and raise the money.

You can read the entire Miami Herald piece here.

What I haven't heard mentioned anywhere are the Convention rules that state if a state holds their determining election after May 1 they are entitled to an additional 30% of their delegates. According to my figures, this would be approximately an additional 60 delegates for Florida and 46 for Michigan.

This is still a long way from a done deal in Florida. The repercussions are significant. The money won't come from the DNC. It's highly unlikely the FDP would turn to the state of Florida and it's Republican governor to run the election to determine their delegates. And the thought of the Florida Democratic Party running a vote by mail for the 4,137,067 registered Democrats (eligible for the 1/29/08 primary) is mind boggling.

To me, this seems to be a turn that we should avoid at all cost. Can you imagine the fate of our Democratic nominee resting on the ability to count the votes in an election like this in FLORIDA? I live here - I certainly can't.

And do you really want to reward Florida and Michigan with an additional 100+ delegates as a result of their inability to follow the rules as originally published?

And what do you say to the 1.7 million Democrats who cast a vote on January 29? Oh, nevermind! Or the thousands of Democrats who showed up at local congressional caucuses on March 1 to elect their district delegates. Or to the delegates who were actually elected at those caucuses?

The light at the end of the tunnel here truly does seem to be an oncoming locomotive! To avoid the impending train wreck, I believe the only solution is for the party chair to insist that the two campaigns sit down with him and work out a solution that prevents this pending implosion.

To fail to do so is only going to exacerbate the current problem, drag out this process until the convention meets in late August and result in a schism that will totally undo the potential gains waiting for the Democratic Party in November.

Tags: Florida, re-vote, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, DNC (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 83 comments

  •  I don't think they would get the bonus (9+ / 0-)

    At least, I have assumed they would not. Still, it's worth raising.  Good job.

    •  Yeah (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      doinaheckuvanutjob

      It would suck if they got a reward for cheating. What's the exact working of the rules? What's the process to revise them? Are they subject to revision before a revote? Or are they subject to the interpretation that it must be the "one and only" vote to qualify for the bonus?

    •  So what if she does not win???? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      theran

      SO what will Hillary do:

      1.  There is another primary in FLA & MI
      1.  The FLA & MI residents DO NOT have to pay for it.
      1.  She does NOT win!!!!!

      Does she do another "take back"???? LOL

  •  I think the revote issue (9+ / 0-)

    is a media invention. Totally pathetic. Everyone knew the rules before Florida's Republican legislature changed the primary date. And my Democratic Sen. Nelson's most recent argument in favor of a revote was pathetic. I'm ashamed of him.

    (0+ / 0-), (0+ / 0-), it's off to kos I go...

    by doorguy on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 02:52:04 PM PDT

  •  Seriously, Im sorry but I fucking hate your state (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    madgranny

    you said rants were welcome!

    "In a time of hype, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell

    by erin r on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 02:54:17 PM PDT

    •  Florida? Or Kansas? (0+ / 0-)

      Obama Precinct Captain. YES, WE CAN!

      by El Yoss on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:01:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Drop the hate (0+ / 0-)

      and drop the negative remarks.

      All it does is create comment threads that are below juvenile. Think before you post.

      I troll rated/hide rated your hate florida comment, then took back the tr since I need to conserve them for worse offenses with all the nonsense around here these days much worse than your comment. But please, try to be more thoughtful. This site is not just for blabbing dumb stuff off the top of your head. There's thousands of people here, be considerate, and remember we're trying to build a party and a movement.

      I'm not fond of Texas but I don't go around saying I effing hate it, as that's offensive, plus I know Austin has some cool bands so that sort of gets me finding good things about it as well Jim Hightower. Remember, Florida has good orange juice, and umm beaches, yeah that's it.

      Children in the U.S... detained [against] intl. & domestic standards." --Amnesty International

      by doinaheckuvanutjob on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:14:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ok, I retract my statement in the name of (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        kansasr, doinaheckuvanutjob

        public decency and out of my unwavering loyalty to florida orange juice!

        I'm glad you retracted too, thank you, I'm no troll!!!

        I knew it was too far right after I posted it, but I really do hate Florida, and the poster did say rants were welcome! .

        2000 was my first election, and I was So excited!  For a few brief months I believed in this country, our democracy and the political process, and then it was stolen and the country went crazy and started attacking countries and Bush gave the UN and our allies the finger.  For years nobody even seemed to notice that the POTUS couldn't form coherent sentances half the time! I just became Very "disillusioned" and I blame the 2000 election, and by proxy, Florida, I blame Florida!

        Maybe I should see a therapist to deal with this repressed anger I have towards the state of Florida!

        "In a time of hype, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell

        by erin r on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:57:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I hear ya. (0+ / 0-)

          I don't know how we all keep our sanity. This country is just going down thanks to the Republicans, and the future for many of us is very perilous. I can see a whole generation of us workers losing our standard of living entirely, let alone our democracy being taken away so a bunch of nutjobs and millionaires can screw us all.

          I can understand your feelings about Florida; having been around this site for awhile I think I'm trying to do you a little bit of a favor knowing that people can get very upset if you flame their own state. I made a joke about Alaska once, and got somebody upset, then I explained I'd lived there and didn't mean to offend, I think that worked out ok; but one quick way to upset people is to knock their state and it's sort of a thing here to try to refrain from doing stuff like that that creates needless disunity in our party on the site. In fact there's periodically been entire diaries posted urging people to stop bad mouthing Texas, the southern states, and even Florida. Some even made the recommended list.

          I'm glad you responded so positively and that you're here with that kind of positive energy. The more we create positive energy here the less we have ugly fights erupting that turn people off to the site and this movement to re-take the party. Thanks for your kind, honest, humorous and spirited response.

          Children in the U.S... detained [against] intl. & domestic standards." --Amnesty International

          by doinaheckuvanutjob on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:20:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Not to worry (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          doinaheckuvanutjob

          As the author of this diary and current Florida resident, I really didn't take offense at your comments...you're right, I did ask for rants LOL.

          Compared to some of the rhetoric I see around here, it was actually somewhat mild!

          And that being said, not everyone around here has a sense of humor, especially not these days, so a little more caution might be appropriate.

          Florida is a difficult place. It gave us Anita Bryant. It has one of the most dominant Republican parties in the country, despite a 50/50 equal voter registration between Republicans and Democrats, because of the gerrymandering skills of the Florida legislative Republicans in 2002.

          We have remnants of the old Dixiecrat Democrats in the Florida Democratic Party who really are Republicans.

          We don't seem to be able to accurately count a vote down here and later this year a verring towards another crisis as we institute yet anoter voting system, after our disastrous flirtation with touchscreen voting.

          We have an insurance crisis that the Republican legislature only puts band aids on. We have a school funding system that is about the worst in the nation and a legislature that this year is going to try and balance a budget crisis on the backs of our schools.

          But if you like a challenge, it's a great place to live. Dodge a hurricane and you gain a new appreciation for life.

          If I could only get my other half to let me keep it a little cooler in here (they watch TV wrapped in a blanket), I might be able to survive a few more years.

          Nill illigitimi carborundum

          by kansasr on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:26:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  You are quite a (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    erin r, Shuruq

    lert.  Interesting.

  •  Hmmm (9+ / 0-)

    And what do you say to the 1.7 million Democrats who cast a vote on January 29?

    Here's what I'd say:  1.7 million of you and not a single one of you recognized you were breaking the rules that applied to everybody, even Floridians?

  •  Forget what the candidates are saying publicly (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    doinaheckuvanutjob, teyigdhk, erin r

    My guess is that Obama does not want revotes, while Clinton does.

    Obama will let the DNC take the lead, then has the votes at the convention to find a way to seat the existing FL and MI delegations.

    It is not in his interests for Clinton to have a chance to win late MI and FL primaries which would bolster strongly her case to be the nominee.

    She on the other hand desperately needs new contests to, along with a possible PA win, would give her momentum.

    Again, the chatter out of the campaigns is posturing, not necessarily their real goals.

    •  I think Obama wants (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      slowheels, teyigdhk

      a revote in MI but no revote in FL.  But the reason why Obama probably rejected the caucus idea is because those who voted in the Rethug primary wouldn't be allowed to participate in the new caucus, even though many who voted there did so assuming that the Dem primary didn't matter.  Most of these were Obama voters.

      The Clintons are corrupt selfish race baiting zero character scumbags. I'd rather be run over by a tractor-trailer than willfully vote for any Clinton again.

      by IhateBush on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:11:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  An excellent point, illustrating why (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        smhbubbles

        this "re-vote" nonsense is just nonsense.  The Republican Michigan primary definitely "counted" and I'm sure some indie or Republican voters who perhaps leaned Obama crossed over and voted for McCain or even hometown boy Romney.  If this starts getting ugly the Obama campaign needs to find some of these guys and get them in front of TV cameras:  "I would have voted Obama if I'd known it would count.  Now it's too late."

        No matter what gets decided, one of the candidates is going to be unfairly and disproportionately disadvantaged by the decision of how to handle a "re-vote" -- the only fair thing is to not have one.  This whole thing is just a manufactured talking point rolled out by Hillary the day after her non-wins in Ohio and Texas, to distract the media from the fact that she mathematically cannot win.

      •  Michigan and precluding Republican primary voters (0+ / 0-)

        There's an ACLU lawsuit in progress that's quite relevant, here:

        http://www.aclumich.org/...

        The issue is that the state shouldn't be giving party preference lists to both parties without giving it to everyone.  The injunction says "don't give those lists to anyone".  So, there's no way that the Michigan Democratic Party can get a list of people who voted in the Republican primary provided to them by the state for now, and no way they can guarantee the outcome of a lawsuit.  That's a critical goalpost that should be addressed before Obama agrees to anything.  

        I think that Obama benefits overall from a closed primary, because hardcore Michigan Republicans are itching to interfere with their primary, much as Democrats did to them 2000 and 2008, much like the Rush Limbaugh interference reported in OH and TX.  But yeah, there's plenty of Obama voters (and Edwards and Hillary voters) who crossed over  because it wouldn't count for anything.  No one told them it'd count against them.  

  •  A re-vote in Florida helps Obama (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    smhbubbles, ctsteve, allie123

    I know conventional wisdom says otherwise.  But even if he loses by 15%, the delegates awarded him will push him over the magic 2024.   (If she wins by more than 20%, then she can make a dent and he may not reach 2024.)  

    Lest we forget, he has 27 out of 41 states.  

    The whole idea of punishing Florida was so that they would not vote early.  They have not voted early.  So let them have a re-vote.

    truth, kindness, endurance, Obama '08

    by CupofTea on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 02:59:04 PM PDT

  •  Oh HELL naw. (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    smhbubbles, applegal, erin r, ancblu, spyguy999

    I knew it.  I fucking knew it.

    She is just pissing herself with glee at the realization that she's found a way to steal it fair & square.

    "What if there were a way that a state disproportionately populated by old ladies, racists, and New Yorkers could get extra delegates?" she thought.

    "Mrs. Clinton, good news!" her lawyer said...

    •  good news is, both campaigns will have to agree (0+ / 0-)

      on Any revote scenario

      this is from Dean

      "In a time of hype, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell

      by erin r on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:03:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If Clinton agrees and Obama refuses, (4+ / 0-)

        Hillary will make quite the show of Obama "denying Americans their right to vote".

        Barack Obama - I'll never see the threat of terrorism as a way to scare up votes, it's a threat that should rally this country against our common enemies

        by madgranny on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:07:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Really? I missed that. (0+ / 0-)

        I'll try to find a link.  Thanks for the tip.

        Of course, if Obama holds out, then Herself gets to whine and play the victim: "Obama doesn't care about voters!  He's disenfranchising people!"  

        I saw his surrogates today saying that he'll do whatever the party decides.  Is that the same as "agree to whatever the party proposes"?  

        'Cause someone from Florida was saying that Florida's re-vote ought to be a mail-in ballot limited to registered Democrats... basically the least favorable scenario possible for Obama.  

        I remain pessimistic.

  •  If they vote by mail (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    applegal, teyigdhk, erin r

    I am sure their will a alot of "helpfull" Clinton supporters at retirement homes helping them fill out their forms "correctly".

    Republicans : Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor

    by ctsteve on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:01:10 PM PDT

  •  Let's just allocate the delegates (8+ / 0-)

    Ok, Hillary got 50% of the vote in Florida so we'll give her half the votes and allocate the rest to Obama and the other candidates.  Then in Michigan, she got 55% and uncommitted got 45% so let's agree that the uncommitted goes to Obama.  For the sake of ending all this nonsense, let's allocate the delegates and give Hillary a net of say 10.  End of story, end of screaming, end of nomination battle with Obama still way ahead.

    •  I like it. n/t (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      elie

      Love, baby, that's where it's at. --The B52's

      by Mind That on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:08:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not fair (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      slowheels

      The "voting" in MI/FL was illegitimate to start with. Now you suggest taking the %'s from that vote and use it. I say split them 50/50 and call it a day. The delegates then have a place at the convention and can change their pledge if they so choose.

      •  I too agree (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Shuruq

        But let's face it, with a 55-45 vote allocations nets a handful of votes for Hillary.  If you just gave her the handful of votes it wouldn't matter, but it would stop the whining and move the nomination of Obama forward.  (Not to mention the enormous waste of Democratic resources -- and attacks -- that would accompnay any re-vote.)  It's clearly unjustified and unfair, but with the current delegate count, it just doesn't matter.  Also Obama's downside by having two more primaries is clearly bigger than he's upside.  

  •  There should be no bonus for cheating (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, CupofTea, teyigdhk

    What I haven't heard mentioned anywhere are the Convention rules that state if a state holds their determining election after May 1 they are entitled to an additional 30% of their delegates. According to my figures, this would be approximately an additional 60 delegates for Florida and 46 for Michigan.

    The bonus was intended for states which never moved up their primary, not for those who did and now are asking for a revote.

    The Clintons are corrupt selfish race baiting zero character scumbags. I'd rather be run over by a tractor-trailer than willfully vote for any Clinton again.

    by IhateBush on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:08:38 PM PDT

  •  What I think (0+ / 0-)

    If there is a re-vote they should still only get half their delegate allocation

    Actually.. if we give them all their delegates then we can bash the rethugs.... who took away half their delegates and emphasive how we bent over backwards for them

  •  From your mention of registered Democrats (0+ / 0-)

    being eligible for the 1/29 Florida primary, I take it that Florida has a closed primary for the Democratic Party.  Is this the case with Michigan?

    moderation in everything ... including moderation

    by C Barr on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:11:44 PM PDT

    •  FL closed, MI open -nt- (0+ / 0-)

      To me, the absolute most important issue ANY of us has, and this nation has, is that we are currently being ruled by a gang of immoral war criminals. -Hornito

      by discocarp on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:17:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  How does a mail-in re-vote work (0+ / 0-)

        in an open primary?  Everybody gets to vote for the Democrat of their choice?  Even if they used their previous vote on a Republican ballot?  No way to tell.  Many people think that crossover mischief voting in Texas gave the popular vote to Clinton because Republicans didn't need to use their vote for McCain who had the nomination wrapped up.  This could be really interesting.

        moderation in everything ... including moderation

        by C Barr on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:27:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have no idea (0+ / 0-)

          There's a lot more complication in all this than anyone seems to want to talk about.

          To me, the absolute most important issue ANY of us has, and this nation has, is that we are currently being ruled by a gang of immoral war criminals. -Hornito

          by discocarp on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:30:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Can't restrict it to this (5+ / 0-)

    And the thought of the Florida Democratic Party running a vote by mail for the 4,137,067 registered Democrats (eligible for the 1/29/08 primary) is mind boggling.

    You can't restrict it to only people eligible for the 1/29/08 primary. This is one issue I haven't seen addressed. Florida is a closed primary. You must be registered dem a month before the primary to be eligible.

    IMO this needs to be the one month before the revote not the original vote.

    There are indies and reps here who did not change parties to be eligible for the primary because it "wasn't going to count." If they've changed since then because of revote talk they must be allowed to vote too.

    To me, the absolute most important issue ANY of us has, and this nation has, is that we are currently being ruled by a gang of immoral war criminals. -Hornito

    by discocarp on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:13:41 PM PDT

    •  That number (0+ / 0-)

      IS the number of registered Democrats as of 1/29/08 (the most current voter registration number available.)

      Nill illigitimi carborundum

      by kansasr on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:28:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not denying that (0+ / 0-)

        I'm just bringing out that there are plenty who didn't register dem for the first contest specifically because it wasn't going to count.

        To me, the absolute most important issue ANY of us has, and this nation has, is that we are currently being ruled by a gang of immoral war criminals. -Hornito

        by discocarp on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:31:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  OK, I have to admit (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    kansasr

    that this:

    To me, this seems to be a turn that we should avoid at all cost. Can you imagine the fate of our Democratic nominee resting on the ability to count the votes in an election like this in FLORIDA? I live here - I certainly can't.

    does cause a bit of an uncontrollable nervous giggle in this Florida Democrat.

    But once again I'll comment that much as I would like to see some fair resolution that gives us representation (and counting the January 29 vote is not a fair resolution) I won't be too broken up if it doesn't happen.

    And I'll tell you one thing:  I absolutely feel that a fair resolution would involve stripping both states of all super-delegates.  The party "leadership" screwed up - let them suffer.

    "There's no idea so asinine that this administration won't give it serious consideration" - Homeland Security Undersecretary Jay Cohen

    by jrooth on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:14:42 PM PDT

  •  No revote from MI or FL should be honored. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sun dog, jvantin1, teyigdhk

    We don't reward states who cheat with two votes and the opportunity to impact our elections twice.

    How would it be fair that the two states that broke the rules to try and help Hillary get rewarded with possibly deciding the election?

    And why wouldn't Florida (an especially corrupt state) just do it again next time? Why not vote twice every primary, if they can get away with it.

    No way. No revote, of any kind.

    Bitch isn't the new black. It's the new racist. They didn't leave bitches to die in NO. And Hillary, if experience is so critical, explain Cheney.

    by jonathan strange on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:20:35 PM PDT

    •  This is one reason I argue (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      jonathan strange

      for stripping both states of all super-delegates.

      If it's clear that this punishment will stick in future cases, no state party will do it because they'd be canceling their own ticket to the convention.

      "There's no idea so asinine that this administration won't give it serious consideration" - Homeland Security Undersecretary Jay Cohen

      by jrooth on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:23:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, Florida must be punished for it's corruption (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        blue armadillo

        Michigan's faux pas may have been a one time deal, possibly because it had a few key Hillary supporters in the hierarchy.

        But Florida will do this in the future if they aren't held to account.

        Rules are rules.

        Florida doesn't get to vote twice.

        They're done.

        Bitch isn't the new black. It's the new racist. They didn't leave bitches to die in NO. And Hillary, if experience is so critical, explain Cheney.

        by jonathan strange on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:29:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Michigan's "faux pas" wasn't a one-time thing (0+ / 0-)

          The same thing happened in 2000.  Gore and Bradley took themselves off the ballot because Michigan again scheduled their primary before Super Tuesday, trying to bust up the Iowa/NH mob.  That's how McCain won the primary against Bush.  On the Dem side, "Uncommitted" beat "Lyndon LaRouche" 3:1.

          The resolution turned out to be a closed caucus a week after Super Tuesday, which was moot because Bradley dropped out by then.

          •  Ah, then they're busted too. (0+ / 0-)

            They really won't learn until there's real fall out will they?

            These cheaters need to be taught a real consistent lesson.

            Bitch isn't the new black. It's the new racist. They didn't leave bitches to die in NO. And Hillary, if experience is so critical, explain Cheney.

            by jonathan strange on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:41:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  FL and MI should go take a flying vote (0+ / 0-)

    in the general election.  

    I mean, is there a Democratic Party or isn't there?  There has to be some way to organize it and that means there has to be rules.  It's not like the DNC surprised them in not seating the delegates.  They said, if you move your primary up, we won't seat your delegates.  Then they did it anyway.  

    I know, we might not like how the primaries are set up.  We might not like it though that a batter only gets three strikes.  You can't suddenly give some batter four strikes in the middle of a game and call it a fair contest in the end.

    This whole thing is just so damn stupid.  Those state party leaders should be hung by their thumbs, we should settle on our nominee since we clearly have a winner at this point and let him start campaigning like crazy in FL and MI.

    Barack Obama can make it up to the voters there.  Let the grassroots movement get into MI and FL in a real solid way for the next SEVEN months and let Barack campaign in person in front of those people and see if we can't win either or both of them in the general.  I bet we can if we'd quick messing around and get on with this.  

  •  All of this 'controversy' is Hillary Clinton's (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    blue armadillo

    Re-vote controversy is MSM and Hillary's doing.  Just think if Barack had won Florida.  You know the rest.......of the story!?!

    Strong unions for a strong America

    by realwischeese on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:50:49 PM PDT

  •  One More Time (0+ / 0-)

    1.  The DNC is equally at fault with the MDP in this mess.
    1. The Michigan 'Machine' is solid for HRC. The People are for Obama ( and were for Edwards, too ).
    1. She'll come out smelling like a rose with her 50%. She would have got bupkus if the Primary had gone down with a full slate.
    1.  Michigan's primary is open. Thugs can vote in the Democratic, we can vote for them.  If a re-do takes place, all the KOSSACKS who voted for Mitt would be shut out of the vote.
    1. But  If it is an OPEN vote, every Thug in the state will vote for HRC.
    1.  The state Machine is fighting to keep a lid on the Detroit Mayoral Meltdown.  Hizzoner will make it hard to pickup Thug seats this fall in the state. It is a massive problem.
    1.  This whole thing is far beyond 'Michigan Cheated and should be punished.'  Dean botched this.Bless him for all he's done right, but he screwed the puppy on this one.
    1.  Maybe the best we can hope for is to spike the re-vote idea, and sideline the Michigan delegates until the second ballot.
  •  If We Keep Discussing It For A Few More Days... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jinok

    it will become moot.  Pretty soon, there simply won't be time for a do over.

Permalink | 83 comments