Obama ALLEGEDLY says something accurate, yet VERY dangerous.

Ugh, what terrible timing. I saw this on Ben Smith. Surely he and Drudge will push this in order to get hits on Politico and drudgereport:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

Okay, good so far...

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Oh no! Pull up! Pull Up!

Welcome to the next news cycle. I'm gonna go throw up when I hear any more of Middle America's "indignation."  

This is, of course, despite the fact that he's right...

•  Skeptical that this will hit the MSM newscycle

  It just isn't very juicy.  But, what do I know...

  by latinadem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:40:59 PM PDT

  •  You don't know anything

    if you're a typical white person...

    Ha ha, I just wrote Bruce Tinsley's next 50 comics!

    But seriously: That's about what this is. Something that will get tons of play in indignant editorial cartoons, e-mail, and right wing radio shows, and probably Fox and Friends, but it isn't that juicy.

    by greatn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:44:16 PM PDT

    •  918 comments on Ben Smith's blog

      plus McCain's campaign is running with it. Saying Obama's 'out of touch'. Its the whole Rev. Wright, Michelle Obama, patriotism thing. This will hurt. I don't know how much.

      by ellenhamm on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:53:16 PM PDT

      •  Yes

        but probably from people who are seizing on the only arguably negative story on Obama today.  That's happened before, to no great effect.  This isn't like Wright with some big dramatic video.  

        by latinadem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:55:32 PM PDT

        •  Unfortunately, it will be used

          to help paint a picture, to tell a story that is negative and that narrative may influence some.

          Hoffa has ben going around Pennsyvania promoting Obama.  This statement will undercut that.

          i do not think it will help him in the Pennsylvania, Indiana, and North Carolina primaries.  

          If I were his opponnet, I would work that statement into a TV ad.  I imagine it is being done as we speak.

          The question is, how do we overcome this, if Obama is nominated?

          He needs a counter narrative that reaches the very people he described.  His current narrative does not.

          by TomP on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:07:53 PM PDT

          •  And, of course, Senator Clinton

            seizes the opportunity:

            Clinton hits Obama over reported 'bitter' comment
            Posted: 05:57 PM ET

            Clinton is seizing on a recently reported Obama comment.

            (CNN) — Democrat Hillary Clinton is seizing on comments Barack Obama recently made in which he reportedly said some Pennsylvanians who have lost their jobs are "bitter."

            "It's being reported that my opponent said that the people of Pennsylvania who face hard times are bitter," Clinton said during a campaign event in Philadelphia. "Well that's not my experience. As I travel around Pennsylvania. I meet people who are resilient, optimist positive who are rolling up their sleeves."

            "Pennsylvanians don't need a president who looks down on them," she said. "They need a president who stands up for them, who fights hard for your future, your jobs, your families."

            cnn.com

            by TomP on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:13:41 PM PDT

            •  My best friend's mom

              just got laid off from a SECOND job in a year. Damn right she's bitter.

              (They don't live in PA, FWIW.)

              by indiemcemopants on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:17:28 PM PDT

              •  See, that could be spun as her being out of touch

                because she's wealthy.  Who wouldn't be bitter if they couldn't find a job?  

                by latinadem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:19:07 PM PDT

                •  It's not the bitter part.

                  It is what some will describe (hell, have described) as condescension.

                  See McCain's spokesman.

                  Obama gave Clinton (and McCain) a gift there.  

                  In sports, I'd call that an unforced error.

                  I want the eventual winner to be able to beat McCain, whether that is Obama or Clinton.  

                  by TomP on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:22:09 PM PDT

            •  she thinks they don't need a Pres who

              looks down on them?  Well then she's certainly not campaigning for herself.

              by Agent Scully on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:30:21 PM PDT

            •  Hill took the EXACT ANGLE Rovian angle on the

              comment.   She learned her lessons well.

              by brueso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:58:54 PM PDT

      •  Ben Smith is a Racist

        I emailed Ben Smith about this comment because my parents were at this fundraiser and he was VERY FLIPPANT in his response.  I asked him to provide the full quote because my mom said that Obama also discussed how many in urban America feel resentment as well.

        The media will do anything to make sure that a black man is not elected president.

        by oak510 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:08:22 PM PDT

        •  Ben Smith is a friend of mine.

          And I regretfully have to inform that you're completely wrong.

          by MBNYC on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:14:52 PM PDT

          •  He is an Elitist Racist

            Who has had a disdain for Obama. I used to defend him but it is as clear as day now what he is doing.

            by oak510 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:38:58 PM PDT

            •  blah

              People needs to stop this. If someone disagrees with Obama or is pro-hillary, does not make that person a racist and the reverse is true. If you don't believe in Hillary, disagree with her stance, etc., does not make you a Sexist.
              This is getting out of hand.

              by Secretasianman on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:42:51 PM PDT

            •  And you are

              someone who throws out accusations against people you don't know, thereby making an ass out of yourself, new user #149,985.

              by MBNYC on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:44:40 PM PDT

        •  He's not a racist, just a Clintonista. n/t

          by ObamaManiac2008 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:34:24 PM PDT

        •  The full comment? Ha!

          We need video these days. And even that isn't a guarantee to persuade people.

          **sigh**

          by mselite on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:30:31 PM PDT

      •  yeah---that darn Obama----telling the truth again

        ---when will he ever learn?

        by dotster on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:10:51 PM PDT

      •  So is Hillary. She castigated

        Obama for "looking down" on Pennsylvanians. She is so sad. She should spend more time reining in her campaign and her husband and stop worrying about trying to make Obama look bad.

        "Well, that’s not my experience," she continued. "As I travel around Pennsylvania, I meet people who are resilient, who are optimistic, who are positive, who are rolling up their sleeves. They’re working hard every day for a better future for themselves and their children."

        "Pennsylvanians don’t need a president who looks down on them. They need a president who stands up for them, who fights for them, who works hard for your futures, your jobs, and your families," she said, implicitly casting Obama as an elitist.

        I so despise that woman, Hillary Clinton. SMH!

        by deminpa08 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:23:38 PM PDT

        •  Artist's rendition before her speech:

          (Notice Bill clinging on for dear life).
          

          by Krum on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:16:48 PM PDT

  •  Neither was

    typical white woman.

    But if you isolate it and repeat it over and over, you can change the apparent meaning of it.  This is exactly the kind of thing they'll hit Obama with whenever they can.  Hope it doesn't make him overly cautious over time.  

    by Sun dog on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:45:07 PM PDT

    •  And the only ones who care...

      Are those who weren't going to vote for Obama anyways. The point is moot.

      by NMLib on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:47:02 PM PDT

      •  well at least it's Friday and might wither away

        over the weekend.    But I think Obama should be ready to do a counter-comment at the next debate, cause Hill will try her best to get it in there.

        by brueso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:10:47 PM PDT

        •  I don't have much hope of it

          withering at all. We are 11 days out of PA, and this is the type of thing you can bet Clinton will exploit this thing to her benefit.

          I say that Obama put up the FULL VIDEO of his statements, and also address the issue head on as he tends to do with anything that will turn explosive. He can't sleep on this, yet he shouldn't come across as being overly reactive.

          A big problem with this presidential campaign has been the constant act of taking a person out of their context. That is never a good thing.

          I personally don't see how this could be viewed as Obama "looking down" on PA voters, but really showing how he understands their point of view.

          by mselite on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:35:01 PM PDT

  •  Yeah

    Not on a day when Hillary and Bill aren't getting along; it might show up, but it won't be a big spectacle. Maybe just a comment about how he needs to try to relate more to the rural voter, etc. and this makes him look like an elitist or something. Nothing we haven't heard in the past.

    by ElizabethAM on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:47:29 PM PDT

  •  I'm sure Fox will run with it. Obama looks down

    his nose at people, is an accusation that Rove already has thrown out there so you can bet it's going to be one of their methods of attack in the general.  They're going to turn him into Dukakis-  another Harvard liberal elitist. Tweety and Joe Scar and to some extent Maureen Dowd have already been pushing that angle, Tweety noting Obama was in a diner and the owner offered him a copy of coffee and he declined but asked for orange juice instead, and Mo Do noting he declined chocolate in a PA chocolate factory as though 'he's watching his figure'.  Here we're just wrapping up 8 years under another swaggering testerone-driven nut and Mo Dow wants another one.

    I can just hear Hannity now:  "At a million dollar meeting of California elites, Barack Obama says Pennsylvanians are all bitter gun-crazy nuts-clinging to God.  What's Obama got against religion and what's got against the average working man?".    

    by brueso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:52:53 PM PDT

  •  Ok, now I see Hillary Clinton is jumping into the

    fray saying that Pennsylvanian's don't need someone who will look down on them.  

    by latinadem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:02:46 PM PDT

  •  on CNN right now 6:00pm nt

    by keschen on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:04:21 PM PDT

    •  Is it a video or what?

      by latinadem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:06:05 PM PDT

      •  No video of Obama

        I wasn't paying close attention as the segment started, but CNN put up a graphic of words in quotation marks that were ascribed to Obama, then followed that with video of Hillary's reaction while campaigning in PA.

        by keschen on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:21:59 PM PDT

        •  better for Hill there's no video- cause then the

          tone of Obama's voice would've made it obvious he wasn't sneering at PA people in pain.   She's probably so relieved she can run with a new jab- she was desperately running her tired old 'His advisor said he won't stick to his Iraq plan" jab- 5 weeks after Powers has left the campaign.     This new comment probably gave Bill, Randell, Pat Buchanan and Tweety each a woody...

          by brueso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:01:46 PM PDT

  •  For what it's worth, Drudge took the story down

    by latinadem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:08:26 PM PDT

    •  My parents were at the fundraiser

      It was taken completely out of CONTEXT.

      by oak510 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:19:18 PM PDT

      •  so your parents are elitists, too, right? ;-)

        just kidding

        Well, SURE it's being taken out of context- but that's what Fox et al do.

        It is uncanny that I guessed the 'looks down his nose' spin that Rove used would be taken up by someone- and then Hillary went and did exactly that.    She'll be saying it for the next 5 days or so cause Lord knows she hasn't had anything positive to say about her own campaign and then Bill went and re-invoked the sniper fire...

        by brueso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:57:54 PM PDT

  •  No his statement is not accurate

    For one thing Americans are not anti-trade, they're anti-corporate free trade.

    For another, I wouldn't lump that sentiment or guns and religion in with anti-immigrant feeling.

    All in all a tone-deaf, patronizing statement that will rightfully hurt him.

    by david mizner on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:24:16 PM PDT

    •  I think that the clinging to anti immigrant

      feelings is the most hurtful to America. I've seen such a surge in anti immigrant feelings lately, and a tolerance for anti immigrant feelings, even here in dkos. If it's so bad here, imagine what it's like in the red states.
      I'm glad to see Obama talking about xenophobia. This will help him with immigrants and pro immigrant voters.

      by immigradvocate on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:46:37 PM PDT

    •  not exactly

      not all Americans are anti-free-trade for corporations; some believe that helps corporations compete successfully.  just saying.

      and what Obama said is that people will find someone or something to blame for their ills when the real problems have never been addressed to begin with.  That is, the PA people don't want handouts and promises; they want some jobs.

      And after years of Clinton/Bush "understanding", those people STILL don't have a vibrant economy.  Maybe it's time for someone who's tone-deaf to the tunes of politics as usual.

      by IndieinVa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:58:30 PM PDT

  •  It just became the headline on FOX News website.

    Drudge dropped the link and the Fox is headlining it now. The Republican Noise Machine is running.Gross.

    by ToddRam on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:35:06 PM PDT

  •  Both Drudge and First Read has taken it down.

    What's up with that? Politico hasn't though.

    by deminpa08 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:37:27 PM PDT

    •  Fox doesn't care if it's true or not. As long as

      it raises their ratings.

      by immigradvocate on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:48:12 PM PDT

•  Um, Uh-oh maybe.

  Hannity will love it.

  by woodstock007 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:43:04 PM PDT

  •  Yeah, he will

    But I no longer fear him.

    by greatn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:44:43 PM PDT

  •  But isn't Hannity's audience

    already anti-Obama (or Democrat)?  So is there really any gain?  It just doesn't seem like a very interesting story.

    by latinadem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:44:55 PM PDT

    •  Anything that MIGHT be interpreted

      as a possible gaffe, will, as you say, be attended to mostly by hard-core opponenents.  BUT invariable their efforts will be directed towards drawing the attention of neutral voters who MIGHT be convinced to feel offended.

      Does this work?  Surely a little.  Witness the measurable poll drops following the Wright matter. This is much smaller potatoes, but similar in kind.

      by lgmcp on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:51:22 PM PDT

      •  he does appear to have rebounded from that

        to some extent though (re Wright).

        by latinadem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:53:23 PM PDT

        •  "the speech" was such a magnificent rebuttal

          but campaign-wise it would probably have been more optimal if he could have made a watershed oration on race without having to do it in the context of self-defense.  

          by lgmcp on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:58:43 PM PDT

      •  yeah- there hasn't been an Obama 'gaffe' in a few

        newscycles and the polls in PA are tightening- time to amp up the silly once again.

        by brueso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:54:49 PM PDT

•  Yeah, I read that

  I don't really see what's offensive about it. He needs to steer clear of trying to define people, but what he says is true. Bill Clinton is getting away with high way robbery today with his 'I don't steal cars' crap.

  by Highwind on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:43:37 PM PDT

  •  If you don't...

    ...see "...anything offensive about it" then you are just too stupid for words. I am an Obama supporter who can't believe how offensive this would sound to folks in PA.

    by wishbone on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:04:26 PM PDT

    •  Excuse me?

      Who in the hell are you calling stupid? I put what he said in context and see nothing offensive about it. I know where he's coming from and I could give a crap about what low-info voters in PA think about it. Keep your insignificant opinion to yourself because I don't care what you think.

      by Highwind on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:23:11 PM PDT

      •  It was a stupid...

        ...thing for my candidate to say and your defense of it is equally stupid. Your contempt for the "low-info voters in PA" is clear and in the midst of one of the most important presidential campaigns in history is simply indefensible.

        by wishbone on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:18:16 PM PDT

•  Yes, it will. It just did.

  Mccain Camp has just responded.

  Asked to respond, McCain adviser Steve Schmidt called it a "remarkable statement and extremely revealing."

  "It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking," Schmidt said. "It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans."

  http://www.politico.com/...

  by beebj on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:44:19 PM PDT

  •  elitism and condenscension?

    laughs Barack Obama is just too real for America.

    by Highwind on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:50:19 PM PDT

    •  bingo- I knew that's where they'd go with it

      by brueso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:55:27 PM PDT

  •  Leave it to Ben "Clinton" Smith to be on

    top of the story.

    by jeepdad on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:55:42 PM PDT

  •  Check your premise

    How can someone be hard-working if there are no jobs?

    by Gearhead on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:00:48 PM PDT

  •  n/t

    elitism and condescension

    This coming from the McCain camp? That' famous!

    by mselite on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:40:06 PM PDT

•  He should just get one of the people he

  is talking about to verify that's what's happening.

  I read this on Huffingtonpost too.  We'll see if the MSM plays this all weekend to blunt Bill's Bosnia revived story line.

  by jalenth on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:44:22 PM PDT

•  I love...

  ....how Obama speaks to the truth. So far it has only helped him despite the conventional wisdom that I think you are trying to convey with this diary. Time will tell......

  by bradreiman on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:44:41 PM PDT

•  Idiotic

  And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

  Some of us in small towns, Mr. Obama, own guns and hunt and go to church becuase we actually enjoy doing these things.  I know it's hard to believe!  We are funny that way.

  by bugscuffle on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:45:10 PM PDT

  •  I know you never miss an opportunity to smear

    Obama, but you might want to visit March 2008 before accusing the guy of misunderstanding religion.

    by haruki on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:46:30 PM PDT

    •  Smear Obama?

      Looks like he just smeared me.  Oh wait!  Maybe I am an embittered, gun-loving, bible-thumping, frightened xenophobe!

      by bugscuffle on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:49:44 PM PDT

      •  Not exactly

        There's no context and it's unclear that he considers these things universally negative.

        by latinadem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:51:43 PM PDT

        •  Oh lord!

          They get bitter, they cling, they are anti-immigrant,  they don't like people who are not like them...

          And what the fuck with the anti-trade?  I'm more pro-trade than both Obama AND Clinton, apparently.

          by bugscuffle on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:55:48 PM PDT

          •  So then that wouldn't be the people who simply

            like religion or guns right?  It's people who "cling" and are "bitter" and "anti-immigrant" and "are not like them."  

            by latinadem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:59:53 PM PDT

      •  You said it, not me.

        That would explain a lot.

        by LightningBoalt09 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:52:59 PM PDT

      •  You wouldn't be the first.

        by Bindle on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:53:09 PM PDT

      •  Now I don't know you from Adam

        so this isn't aimed towards you individually but just maybe there's a segment of our population that deserve to be smeared if they make all of their decisions in regard to guns and God because they're in constant fear.  If you don't fit the extreme of that demographic I'm not sure why you'd take offense.

        I understand exactly what the man is saying and agree with him wholeheartedly.  I wish more politicians had the guts and confidence to go after the fear-mongering fundamentalists in this world.

        by artmartin on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:03:55 PM PDT

        •  I said it

          was an idiotic thing to say.  The next day or two will bear that out.

          by bugscuffle on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:05:19 PM PDT

        •  if you don't fit the extreme?????

          If you don't fit the extreme of that demographic I'm not sure why you'd take offense.

          Because if you don't stand up when others are being labeled, smeared, disenfranchised just because you are not a member of that class you are a everything you profess the right wing nut jobs to be!!!

          by educonfidential on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:31:35 PM PDT

      •  if you are not bitter, then the quote does not

        apply to you. But are there not people (other people not your gracious self), of course, who when things are not going well, focus on other things that they already enjoy, but get even more focused on them.

        Hell he could have said that when west coast suburban geeks are out of work they cling to their online games ..and I'd have to raise my hand :)  Tho someone would find a reason to be outraged

        by geejay on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:14:31 PM PDT

      •  don't forget

        "redneck" and "down and out" as posited in other comments.

        by educonfidential on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:28:45 PM PDT

  •  Oy

    I know that you never give Obama the benefit of the doubt on anything, but your interpretation of this comment is incredibly uncharitable.

    Barack considers the WHOLE spectrum of the American experience. It's that perspective that makes him such a unique candidate. If you read his book, Dreams from My Father, you'll find a meditation on why the people of poor communities in the inner city behave the way that they do. It's the sort of thing he's always thinking about, because he's a THOUGHTFUL person, and it is one of the qualities that make him a leader.

    There are certainly some folks in small towns, who take out their frustrations on a lack of equal opportunity by clinging to religion, guns or xenophobia. I have seen it. He was talking about those folks.

    If people are going to jump on everything that he says and go "GOTCHA!!!!!!", how can we ever have a politics that includes honest discussions of the problems we face?

    by jenontheshore on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:53:49 PM PDT

  •  You've missed the point entirely

    Obama doesn't seem to be criticizing people for hunting or church-going.  I think he's talking as much to liberals who blame guns for problems that can be traced to the lack of opportunity, as he is to members of the local militia.  Guns are not the issue, neither is religion, neither is trade nor immigration.

    He's just saying, when things aren't right and there's no help, people turn to these things with more passion because they need some explanation for what's happening.  

    But the solution is obviously economic, we've got to start working together, not dividing up by religious denomination or gun license or immigration status.

    by spotDawa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:54:48 PM PDT

    •  Bingo!

      That's how I read it too. The issue is not "people stupidly cling to guns when there are hard times". It's that people become susceptible to engineered divisiveness based on fostering fears that one's religion, gun ownership, or whatever is coming under attack by the "other" political party.

      This might be more fuel for retarded Hannity fans, but who cares? I, like other commenters on this thread, am glad that Obama can speak frankly and honestly.

      by Leap Year on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:24:59 PM PDT

    •  He was attempting to do that

      But to lump religion and guns and anti-trade sentiment (he meant anti-free trade, I hope) in with anti-immigrant sentiment is clumsy at best, offensive at worse.

      He was trying to be empathetic but the result was the opposite.

      by david mizner on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:26:01 PM PDT

      •  We are just too used to being polarized

        on these issues.

        anti-trade sentiment (he meant anti-free trade, I hope)

        You see, you're trying to parse his position on trade from this statement, but he wasn't expressing a position on these topics.  Just saying, they are used as divisive issues because they are hot-button topics.

        If that means we shouldn't talk about them in this respect, perhaps we should just forget the issues and go back to soundbytes.

        by spotDawa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:35:46 PM PDT

  •  But I'm from a small town...

    and I don't take offense.  He's speaking to truths that I recognize in my own small town experience, in my own family.  When times are hard people do "cling to" things.  Some take comfort in religion.  Some take comfort in the familiar which - in lots of rural areas - includes the tradition of gun-ownership and hunting.  Some get angry and want to place blame.  In the current climate, unfortunate as it might be, that anger does get directed at people who are different, immigrants, overseas workers.  

    I don't take this as Obama bashing people from small towns.  I read the Fowler piece on HuffPo and took strong exception to her characterization of his remarks.  I thought he was trying to do just what she said he should do; introduce the people of rural Pennsylvania, their traditions, their concerns, to a part of the country that is very different.

    That said, I suspect the traditional media will take this and run with it.  Sigh.

    by UrbandaleForObama on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:58:34 PM PDT

•  LOL

  I had more or less the exact same thought process when I read that post.

  Look, Barack likes to talk to people like they are adults. Sadly, Americans aren't used to that. They like their politicians to use lots of words and say absolutely nothing in them. That said, I don't think he said anything TOO outrageous. The context really is frustration over the economy.

  I don't think it's a major gaffe, purely because the media is too lazy to read such a long quote. They can't even really cherry-pick one line and repeat that part. So I don't think this will be a major story, but hope he realizes from this that he should be careful about talking too honestly.

  by jenontheshore on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:45:11 PM PDT

  •  he may talk to people like adults- but when his

    speech or whatever is not on tape, leave it to Hannity etc to spin it and 'dumb it down' to fit the narrative they are pushing- Obama as a liberal Harvard elitist out of touch with the working man.

    The Republican machine knows that Americans are used to reruns and since this method of attack has worked for them in 88, 2000 and 2004, voila, they'll haul it out again.    Remember, John McCain is the guy inviting the press to a barbeque-  they think if Obama invited the press to his backyard, it would be tofu and carrot juice.

    by brueso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:59:31 PM PDT

    •  We've got to stop cowering over what

      Hannity or Rush pump out of their bloviated mouths.  The people that hang on their words will (now read my lips) never vote for Barrack Obama or Hillary Clinton or John Kerry or Al Gore.  

      Repeat after me now.  "These people are idiots.  We need to laugh at them and their followers when they make these outrageous statements".

      If you take them serious it actually gives them power.

      by artmartin on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:08:03 PM PDT

      •  Exactly.

        Laugh heartily at these morons. Giggle at their listeners sitting there hanging on every word. Wonder how these people are even intelligent enough to get themselves to the polls and push the correct buttons. Then ridicule them some more.

        by Leap Year on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:26:58 PM PDT

•  There's a lot of absurdity in this campaign...

  and none more so than the issue of foreclosures.  Our party is bailing out banks and financiers........not directly, but through the homeowner.

  And the illusion is sticking.  We will have a trillion dollars of publicly financed housing but without the social policy, low cost housing for the poor, that had been included in such housing.

  Here's my diarywhere I go into it.

  by arodb on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:45:36 PM PDT

•  I don't know

  I must be different but I read this as "blame the right person for the mess, we can then get it fixed"

  But like I said, I usually see things different

  by housesella on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:45:49 PM PDT

  •  but it is calling the people he

    was referring to victims.

    This is a group that does NOT want to be thought of as victims.  Victims are weak.  And they don't want to be thrown into that hole.

    by Filthy Ogre on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:52:29 PM PDT

    •  and yet, they love the victim in hillary...

      how ironic.

      by ye ye ye on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:58:21 PM PDT

      •  who loves the victim?

        by Filthy Ogre on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:01:30 PM PDT

•  Tip Jar

  The victim complex of Middle America is staggeringly large.

  by jkennerl on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:46:16 PM PDT

  •  no larger than the victim complex

    of many other parts of society, and I suspect, actually much smaller.

    by Filthy Ogre on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:48:24 PM PDT

•  I do not think it is accurate.

  It was not a good statement.  

  In addition, what is this "anti-trade sentiment."  Obama now wants to change NAFTA and opposes teh Colombia Unfair Trade agreement.  He disavowed the statements by his advisor to the Canadian government.  So Obama has "anti-trade sentiment," and he has not lost his job.

  McCain's folks already are painting a distored picture:

  Asked to respond, McCain adviser Steve Schmidt called it a "remarkable statement and extremely revealing."

  "It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking," Schmidt said. "It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans."

  Ben Smith

  So now the Republican is the populist?  I think not.

  by TomP on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:46:26 PM PDT

  •  Read "What's the Matter with Kansas?"

    The Republicans are the populists.

    Just in the sense that they are pro-gun, pro-hate and pro-dominionist.

    by jkennerl on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:48:11 PM PDT

    •  Obama just played into that.

      I've read the book.

      Cultural populism can be, but need not always be, different from economic populism.

      Class privilege comes through with some when describing cultural issues.  I think that killed Kerry in parts of Ohio and Missouri, among other places.

      by TomP on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:03:39 PM PDT

•  He is right, though it doesnt sound nice!!

  Obama is talking about the bigger picture here as to why a community can choose to become more inward looking, protectionist and fearful of the future when there are fewer jobs to go around and higher prices. People naturally turn towards the comfort zone and resist change in such a scenario.

  This is a PLAIN HARD TRUTH and he is being brave saying it. This is the common psychology of a large population of people, especially when they were previously affluent and have now fallen on hard times. And when they see the big-shots in DC and NYC rake in the moolah hands over fist. Thats where the bitterness comes from

  One must not take it personally.

  by futureliveshere on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:46:32 PM PDT

  •  He shouldn't have said it

    whether it's true or not.

    This is the kind of assessments that got Hillary into trouble with her Iowa/Mississippi talk. If may be the kind of stuff the campaign discusses behind closed doors, but you don't say this kind of stuff in public.

    by jeepdad on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:52:34 PM PDT

    •  Agreed. Also reminds me of back in the day

      when Hillary caught hell for saying that she hadn't chosen to "stay at home and bake cookies".  My mom was a fulltime homemaker and she didn't feel at all insulted by Hillary's somewhat unfortunate way of phrasing her pride in career and public life. But apparently many did.  

      This kind of line is similar.  Politicians have to be insanely careful about saying anything that some of their potential constituents MIGHT be able to interpret as personally unflattering.

      by lgmcp on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:57:01 PM PDT

    •  It wasn't in public

      He was discussing campaign strategy with close supporters and described a certain demographic in very broad terms. In context it's all true and appropriate.

      by Iamyouareme on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:25:59 PM PDT

      •  it's "all true"???

        in the elitist context??

        by educonfidential on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:10:22 PM PDT

•  Still no verification...?

  Actually, being from a small PA town myself, I can assure you -- if this is true, it will cost Obama a significant amount of votes.

  However, the only source seems to be the ever-irritating Clintonista Mayhill Fowler, and it's unclear from her piece whether or not she was in attendance at the fundraising dinner. She does "quote" Obama, but so far there's been no other sources, no video, no audio, etc. I believe this was a high-cost fundraiser, too, with no media participation -- so I am not clear whether Fowler was actually present or not.

  If this is true, Obama better get ahead of it ASAP. This is the exact kind of thing that serves to alienate him from the so-called blue collar white voters. And may I add, I truly hope that it's been distorted, because it strikes a very tone-deaf chord: "clinging to guns or religion"? Yikes. And believe me, I am very pro-Obama, but this one will hurt.

  I can only assume that because it has not yet appeared on the mainstream media feeds such as the CNN ticker is because of these same questions. It must first be authenticated.

  by Great Quail on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:48:28 PM PDT

•  But the media will

  only display the part about guns and religion, resentment, anti-immigrant so that it sounds only so provocative and elitist.  But I think if Obama tackles this and clean it up by stating the truth he can turn this into a positive. This will open up a conversation into a more detailed, truth telling statement than the gun sling, religion, etc.

  by beebj on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:49:37 PM PDT

  •  I think it could be a huge window for McCain

    Not that a lot of folks would have stuck around for Obama that would be offended by this, but still...it could be damaging.

    by jkennerl on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:51:37 PM PDT

    •  umm, independents and cross over repugs...

      Obama's electoral strategy does rely somewhat on centrist voters as he portrays that image, this is nicely wrapped gift that will help to place him in 'elitist liberal camp'

      by rigso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:54:03 PM PDT

      •  Of course:

        You would stop at nothing to feed that to your pals at FOX News, so nothing you ever say here really matters. Your "concern" is noted, however.

        by Eternal Hope on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:55:54 PM PDT

        •  oh lordy, here it goes again.

          nice to see ya, im actually coming to Obama side, im feeling it everyday more and more. what i said above is an analysis of how it will be played, you dont think it will be played like that?

          by rigso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:57:05 PM PDT

          •  Well:

            First of all, people don't like being lied to. And after seven years of being lied to by Bush and the media, they are less likely to fall for it again. Secondly of all, this is a trap for the right -- if they fall into the trap, stir shit up, and make the front pages of the media, all Obama has to do is do what he did with Wright -- make a powerful speech about rural revitalization and what we must do. And now, Obama is up 10 points nationally and down only single digits in PA to Hillary. If they want to do this again, bring it on.

            So, what changed your mind and what made you decide to come to the Obama side?

            by Eternal Hope on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:02:29 PM PDT

            •  i'm still in between

              but i just think PA gap is already narrowing, that shows me its time to maybe start thinking about getting behind one person. I certainly will not and have not sent out negative stories about Obama since Wright flap, which I began to see as a true reflection on the underlying race tensions in this country, his speech helped me to see why this shouldnt be used as political issue, and have been somewhat turned off by some HRC supporters use of it.  and I think he would be a great president, I am waiting until PA primary though to see which side i'll be on officially.

              by rigso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:07:17 PM PDT

              •  Well, I'm glad to see you've thought this through

                I agree with that; best of luck in your journey, and I promise not to hold it against you if you still decide to support Hillary. This is a free community, and Hillary supporters are always welcome in my book. Have a pony for the welcome change of attitude on your part.

                

                by Eternal Hope on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:24:38 PM PDT

            •  not to sound like an out-of-touch elitist

              but I have absolutely no faith in my fellow countrymen to be tired of "lying."

              they have so far put up with: illegal war, torture, the disintegration of our international prestige, domestic spying, the gutting of the bill of rights, and failure to catch Osama (have to watch myself, I almost pulld a faux news "Obama" there).

              but somehow lying is supposed to awaken them?  I agree wholeheartedly with what Obama said.  the issues of economic disparity and job loss must be adequately addressed if we are to fix the fundamentals of the economy.

              but considering the electorate, it's probably better for him to get to important things after the campaign.  I wouldn't mind him sticking to 30 second sound bytes that he can bludgeon the republicans to death with (i.e. immigration, fisa, schip)

              he seems to have a habit (so far) of trading on his popularity to make an important (but ultimately open to idiotic, exaggerated republican criticism) point.  it makes me nervous, especially now that he has the whole thing wrapped up. not that I don't think he should get it, he's earned it... but he needs to be more diplomatic in his comments.

              by remingtonsteele on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:23:09 PM PDT

              •  I'm just speaking from personal experience.

                People in my red (60% Bush) county are calling for the impeachment of Bush, cracking jokes about Cheney teaching hunter safety classes, and ranting about the Republican connections with big oil. I know Obama does what you describe, but we have been clamoring for a candidate who is willing to show a spine for years. And now that Obama says something that shows that he does have a spine, I would not worry about it too much.

                by Eternal Hope on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:29:22 PM PDT

                •  hmmm

                  I don't really think that was a 'spine' comment.  calling for the impeachment of Bush... that would be some spine.  what Obama said is just a casual and accurate observation, phrased in just the right way for the right wing echo chamber to twist and distort.

                  people in my red (68%) bush state and less red (54% bush) district are largely divided.  I still can't even get any of who I would otherwise describe as logical, reasonable conservatives (even as that string stings my mouth and calls into question comments I've made before) to agree that Bush has committed impeachable offenses. which is why, I think, I never think conservatives are reasonable.

                  and we've had candidates that have spine come up before.  for some reason, we keep rejecting them in primaries (Dean, Edwards).  I'd be happy with either (admittedly, I've finally reached the point where I think I'd be happier with Obama) but I don't think spine is a problem between the two of them.  now, honesty, integrity.... heh.  good luck to Obama with this one, though.  he seems resillient.  who knows, maybe he'll pull another epic and awe-inspiring speech out of this? ;)

                  by remingtonsteele on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:37:13 PM PDT

                  •  Well, here's the fundamental question:

                    The question is, whether we are willing to do more for the truth than the right is for a lie. And the right would attack Jesus Christ if they thought that it could be used for political gain. I think that it's good that Obama doesn't worry about how Hannity will take his remarks, because that allows him to say/do a lot of things that he would not do otherwise.

                    Let me just give another example -- how all the Democratic pols are wringing their hands because Obama is not giving them street money. That is just a form of legalized bribery, and he hasn't needed street money to win places like SC, for instance. Speaking of character, that is a matter of doing the right thing, and Obama has not done that with any kind of expectation of being seen doing it -- it's just the kind of person he is.

                    by Eternal Hope on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:03:02 PM PDT

                    •  it's a good point to make

                      I don't think the problem is necessarily how Hannity will take his comments, although that's part of it.  the problem is how joe shmoe average blow will allow himself to have his opinion made and fed back to him regarding this incident.

                      just read a diary... Obama's campaign has responded well. good times.

                      by remingtonsteele on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:11:18 PM PDT

                      •  I knew he would.

                        That's why I was never worried about this.

                        by Eternal Hope on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:19:55 PM PDT

              •  My sentiments exactly

                I have absolutely no faith in my fellow countrymen to be tired of "lying."

                by deminpa08 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:30:39 PM PDT

              •  Impossible to avoid

                There is nothing Obama can say that won't be "open to idiotic, exaggerated republican criticism" -- including saying that he's for motherhood and apple pie. The Right and their flunkey media will lie and distort and smear no matter what he says -- as they've proved repeatedly over the last 8-25 years. I think we need to stop walking on eggshells worrying about what "they" will say Democrats said, and say what we think.

                And I also think there's a lot of truth in what Obama said. There have always been many people in this country (rural and urban) who, when things go wrong, start blaming immigrants/people of color/people who are different in some way for their problems, because it's easier than dealing with complex issues of economics, etc. This isn't new (or news, unless the news is looking for a hyped up "gaffe" to flog) -- the Know Nothings built their whole party on it in the 1840s-1850s, after all. (One of the major constituent elements of the Republican party at its founding.)

                by bghill on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:32:23 PM PDT

•  So what's so wrong w/him telling the truth?

  by Shhs on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:49:53 PM PDT

  •  "You can't handle the truth!!!!"

    You remember that statement.

    by beebj on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:51:39 PM PDT

    •  That's the problem w/this country

      Either we grow up this year, or we will never regain are 1st class status.  That's the painful truth.

      People need to start taking responsibility for their shit.

      by Shhs on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:53:01 PM PDT

  •  I want him to win, not school rednecks. n/t

    by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:23:10 PM PDT

    •  real classy use of language to

      disenfranchise.

      by educonfidential on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:22:37 PM PDT

      •  buh?

        by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:37:23 PM PDT

•  No proud independent group of people is

  going to want to hear that they are doing anything but handling their lives well.

  They won't want their lifestyles described as some kind of pathology.

  by Filthy Ogre on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:50:48 PM PDT

•  He can rephrase it in his next stump speech.

  by jalenth on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:51:21