Daily Kos

"'For a White Girl,

Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:08:30 AM PDT

you know, you have funny eyes.' I was shocked he said that to me, Mom, really surprised by that."  

My 25 year old daughter came over to my place so we could watch the David Wilson film on MSNBC together.  Suddenly, we found ourselves in the middle of a conversation we had never had before.  

J has hired a nicely diverse group of workers while in her management capacity.  She told me last night that they have started to refer to her as "the white girl."  She said that they make many assumptions and cliches about her and her "privileged" upbringing.  She then confided in me that it is painful to her, but she tries to respond in the spirit of good humor, despite the ache in her heart.  J went on to say that it bothered her they would presume certain things because of her white heritage from me, things that were not true, but it bothered her even more because it denied utterly her paternal heritage.  You see, although I'm of Irish lineage and, yes, white, her father is a Native American.

J's paternal great grandparents left the Reservation with other members of the family and went to the hills of West Virginia.  The family became a part of the coal mining community there, a difficult and harsh lifestyle back then.  Years later, her grandparents were starting their own family and wanted a better life for their young children.  They came to California where her grandfather found work in a lumber mill.  Although illiterate and unskilled, the family managed to make a living and raise their five children.  To their great pride, two of their children grew to graduate from college and all completed high school.  The family was not well-to-do, however, they had a much higher standard of living then that they had left behind.

As J grew up, her grandparents would tell her the tales of her family history and show her the few photographs in their possession from the "old days."  There were images of tall, proud Native men, some with hair neatly plaited, lined up next to mining equipment with very solemn faces.  Her grandfather explained why there were so few photos.  It was the early day of photography, so not common, and typically the men were in the mines before dawn and did not leave until after dusk.  They rarely saw the sun.  Most died young, with damaged lungs as a by-product of the coal dust.  In return for these labors, they were given a shack to live in and some meager food supplies from the company store.  

Even as a little girl, J loved visiting her grandparents and was always content at her grandfather's side as he again recounted the family history and reviewed the small assortment of family momentos and photos.  Her grandfather instilled a great sense of pride in her regarding her family and their history.  Her grandmother was a quiet woman, but sometimes would tell her own stories.  Her tales were more of the hardships the women endured.  Tales of giving birth and raising children in an isolated and poverty stricken home.  She told J how her Uncle David had to help her deliver her Uncle Gerald, a five year old alone with his mother as she labored in the scant light of an oil lamp.  She told how it took months to find a doctor to issue a birth certificate, and that was why they had to estimate the birthdays of the children to celebrate annually as they grew.  

To J, these tales, these photos and momentos, were her family treasures, her inheritance, and even her identity to a degree.  These proud people, their labors and struggles, their hopes, desires, willingness to risk all on the chance of attaining more, came together in a way that made her the person she has become.  They are a part of her, inextricably interwoven with her own life experiences and inseparable from her character.  These people, these places, these events are so much a part of her that she cannot imagine a life absent this rich history.  So when her assistant manager said "For a white girl, you have funny eyes" she was taken aback.  At first, unsure of who he was speaking to; and then suddenly feeling adrift, as if her entire history, indeed her very self, had been swept away in the tide of a simple statement.  

I was surprised when my daughter told me these feelings, and grateful to David Wilson for opening a door that allowed her to step through and share these hidden thoughts.  After she left I continued to muse over our conversation and I wondered how many of us make such statements in off hand manner in unthinking conversations.  I wondered how many people feel their selves and their history questioned and swept away, devalued, by these statements.  Black, Asian, Native, Hispanic, whatever our ethnic or cultural background was, it is a part of us and brought us to who we are today and who we will be tomorrow.  To each of us, our history and lineage is a personal and often powerful heritage and when diminished, even subtly, the wounds are real.  

In the busy pace of our lives, particularly faced with so many serious issues as a failed government, tanking economy, and a shameful military aggression, it's easy to get swept away in the larger issues.  We have so many substantive matters to be concerned with, so many important points to be considering, that sometimes what we consider to be less pressing is forgotten in the moment.  

I hope that we can all take a moment before we speak to others and remember that words do matter and should be chosen wisely, with empathy, and with respect.

Tags: words, mining, Native Americans, family, Rescued (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 39 comments

  •  post a tip jar (8+ / 0-)

    and thank you for sharing this with us.  Tell your daughter that I'm sure she has beautiful eyes.

    Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing McCain perversity

    by Deoliver47 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:15:06 AM PDT

  •  The person who said that was pretty stupid. (5+ / 0-)

    I don't think there's any debate about that.  Not only do white people have different types of eye shapes, but many races have similar features in their eyes.  So if he thought her eyes didn't look white, perhaps that should have tipped him off that she was not just white.

    I don't want to degrade the seriousness of your comments or your daughter's feelings about her heritage.  But I have to say, I think the best way for her to respond to shitty comments like that is to say, "Bitch, I'm Native American."

  •  At least your family knows its ancestry, and it (13+ / 0-)

    is a proud one.

    Hopefully your daughter's coworkers will come to understand that "privilege" as they are referring to it, has more to do with money than race. It is true that a disproportionate number of African Americans fall into lower income brackets, but there is a definite increase in middle and upper-income African American households over past years.

    Poverty and near-poverty sucks whatever your skin looks like!

    If all do not join now to save the good old ship of the Union this voyage nobody will have a chance to pilot her on another voyage. Abraham Lincoln

    by 4Freedom on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:27:28 AM PDT

  •  Fabulous diary. Many thanks for it. (9+ / 0-)

    You captured here an important part of Appalachian history - the true melting pot of the coal camps. Your daughter is rich in having the wisdom acquired over many generations. May her ancestors continue to watch over her with pride.

    All governments are run by liars and nothing they say should be believed - I. F. Stone

    by va dare on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:50:02 AM PDT

  •  This is a beautiful diary (12+ / 0-)

    Thank you.

    And, you've inspired me to do another music video of a song...

    I ran into a woman at the peace march in mid March, and she was handing out cd's with a song of hers on it.  I took one, and when she passed by again, asked if I could share it on DKos.  She was happy I'd do that.

    It's hard to share songs here in a format where people can't just download them and listen (and why would people do that?)  So I made a music video with photos I took...

    She found it on YouTube (I would have written her, but didn't have her email address) - and wrote to tell me she liked it, and has mailed me her (lovely) cd's.  There is one I really want to make a video for - but another, and this diary make me want to do one for this:

    She has skin that's the color of honey in the sunshine.
    She's got a curly cloud of hair all done up in a ponytail
    She's got a face that doesn't look like him, she doesn't look like me.
    When I look into her big brown eyes, I see more than just black and white:

    I can see North, and I can see South,
    I can see East of the Empire, I can see West to Africa,
    I can see people all over the world
    When I look at the face of my little American.

    She's got cousins in the Carolinas who are Cherokee.
    She can claim a little Scott mixed in with some Scandinavian.
    She's got a family in Africa that she will never know or see.
    She lives in a Spanish neighborhood, up the street from Chinatown.

    There are places you can go where everybody looks the same.
    There are places you should never go unless you look just like thr rest.
    There are people who will never know how lucky we really are
    to have the colors of the wolrd mixed into one very beautiful place.

    My Little American by Carol Williams.

    If I may include your daughter's photo, I'd be thrilled to do that.  My email address is on my profile.

    "2009" The end of an error

    by sheddhead on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:53:15 AM PDT

  •  Thank You , lovely diary (7+ / 0-)

    Thank you for this thoughtful diary. I struggle with how to teach my children how to respond to comments about their race both implied and overt. So much depends on the intention. I am glad that you have the kind of relationship with your grown daughter where you can discuss these issues and work them through. It is wonderful that she has the connection to her past and an appreciation of the struggles of her grandparents. I hope that the comments made to her at work were throw away lines, not that that excuses them totally or diminishes their obvious effect on her. We need to keep working on real awareness and not take for granted the progress that has been made, it might not be a comfortable discussion but it is necessary.

  •  Funny thing , that racial /ethnic stuff - (8+ / 0-)

    I worked for many years in a government agency in an area noteable for black/white conflict. Never mentioned my own red ancestry to a single person there ever. I would hear earfuls of what white co-workers  thought , assuming I was One Of Them. Also heard earfuls of black coworkers thought , knowing my politics & rightfully assuming a generally sympathetic ear. I wished I was deaf , sometimes.
    always ready for off days , to go do Wild Indian things in solitude of Great Outdoors.

  •  I'm White and Southern (10+ / 0-)

    I come from a long line of southerners. I've found that all my ancestors lived in the south, and originally they came here from England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. (Can a person get any WASPier?)

    I'm glad MSNBC aired the David Wilson documentary. My ancestors owned slaves. Will I be able to learn about how the farms were managed, what the crops were, what life was like then? I need to try.

    I have a classic photo of my mother, age 3 in 1908, in a white dress, next to a black teenager who's holding a hoe and looking down at her — a story I'll never know. My cousin and I know the name of her mother's and grandmother's maid, and a few stories about her.

    I hope someone is studying the stories of relationships between blacks and whites in the south that began long ago and continued for generations. I hope someone is recording memories  and reading the wordy autobiographies people wrote in the 19th century. After all, it's only been 150 years or so.

    We can sort the truth from the exaggerations and lies and excuses in these stories if we can lay aside automatic reactions and be dispassionate. We can learn a lot.

    It took me 45 minutes to write this comment. I'll be spending more time thinking about this issue as well.

    •  That photo is (6+ / 0-)

      a foundational piece of your history.  Treasure it, for all it says, the bad and the good.  I hope you can discover more about your heritage.  

      I was surprised at some of the things I learned about my own family with some research.  My father's family came here to escape debtor's prison.  My mother's family came here from Ireland three generations ago to found churches on the west coast.  Searching through records, I was able to find quite a few details about our history and more fully recognize how we are all interconnected.  If we could focus that into a better sense of unity and community, what a great nation we could be.

      We learn from the past so that we can make a better future.  Ignoring our past dooms us to repeating the those mistakes.  I'm hoping the David Wilson special will open a door we can all walk through together.

      "Sunni, Shi'a. You say to-ma-to, I say to-mah-to." (McCain will be heard saying this before the general election ends.)

      by RoCali on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:30:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Your daughter should address this (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    kurt

    .. with her coworkers. If she is open and honest about being uncomfortable and why, this will create more understanding between herself and her colleagues. She has a very proud and interesting family history that everyone can appreciate. But if she never says anything, then no one will ever know.

  •  Thank you for the reminder (0+ / 0-)

    and the beautiful family history.

  •  ...for a White Girl/Boy you........ (7+ / 0-)

    is offensive to me with or without non white background.  The notion that it's ok to hurt the feelings of white children because, well, they're white, is utter despicable non sense. Bright kids have the same problem.  There is a feeling abroad that white kids, smart kids, etc. should just take it because everyone is so much more put upon.  NO ONE should take that crap.

    •  Exactly (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      tikkun, kurt

      As I said above, I hope that we can all take a moment before we speak to others and remember that words do matter and should be chosen wisely, with empathy, and with respect.  That includes everyone, because words can hurt.

      "Sunni, Shi'a. You say to-ma-to, I say to-mah-to." (McCain will be heard saying this before the general election ends.)

      by RoCali on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:44:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Here's an interesting photo (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Chi, crose, MaskedKat, RoCali

    Note the t-shirt:

    Irish girl? Well, yes, she is. One-quarter Irish.

    So, yep, that is a genuine Irish girl. Her father's first and middle names were Patrick Michael...don't get much more Irish than that.

    Her mother? Well...she's Filipina :-)

    Oh, and as a kicker, this little Filipina-looking girl wearing the Irish shirt? Her first name is Lena...after her Italian grandmother.

    Now that's America.

    (Lena is my niece :-)).

    Remember: if it's close, they'll steal it.

    by ChurchofBruce on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:58:59 PM PDT

    •  She is cute. (0+ / 0-)

      Love her eyes and her complexion.

      ...once you're willing to say whatever it takes to win, you lose. ~~Dean

      by dkmich on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 03:24:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This gorgeous young woman is where we should be (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      RoCali

      as a nation and as a planet--all mixed up, beautiful, genetically and culturally diverse. The more we mix it up with one another, the healthier we will be.

      I'm adopted, born of Irish and Frisian biologicals but adopted by English/Scots adoptives. My adoptive Dad looked so Jewish to some that it was assumed his grandad's name had been shortened from Rosenthal. He was mistaken for Greek, Italian and French when we visited those countries in the 60s, but his family goes back to England and Ireland. I have been told many times how much I resemble him. My adoptive Mom was a peaches-and-cream-skinned English/Scot, and my adoptive brother resembles her.

      Humans are like gourmet food--add a little spice here, some lovely sauce there, a Secret Ingredient or two, and voila! Something smooth, something crisp, something cool, something luscious, something comforting, and everything a wonderful, crazy experiment.  

      Mal: "This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then explode."

      by crose on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:58:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Same pain (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dkmich, RoCali

    I know your daughter's pain...  The pain of not being recognized for who I really am, but rather for what people perceive me to be.

    It's funny because I do disparities work, and everyone thinks I'm the do-gooder white chick, not the Latina that I am.

    But, I've come to some peace with it.  Because really, how many people am I able to perceive for what they really are on first glance.

    I'm an asker now, and I try to ask as many questions as I need to be able to really meet people where there at... but that skill was borne out of some painful experiences. Your daughter will become stronger and more emotionally wise through her experience.

    -6.0/-6.21 John McCain: he's not change you can believe in!

    by doctorgirl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:02:47 PM PDT

  •  I am sorry your daughter's feelings are (0+ / 0-)

    hurt.  I always told mine to "consider the source" and to never forget "sticks and stones".  People in general need to be less concerned with what others think and say.  She doesn't need their approval, and they most likely mean no harm anyway.  

    ...once you're willing to say whatever it takes to win, you lose. ~~Dean

    by dkmich on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 03:23:14 AM PDT

  •  Perhaps the next time you speak, (0+ / 0-)

    you might suggest that our brains tend to put information into categories and whatever's unusual and seems to require a new slot (like a new file on the computer) generates a bit of puzzlement that people want explained.  Everybody asks questions that come across as insensitive or stupid, unless they've been taught not to ask questions about other people's personal characteristics.
    On the other hand, guys, in particular, seem to have been taught that eye color is a significant attribute that they should attend to, perhaps because they've also been told that the size of the iris is a clue to sexual interest.  The owner of the eyes, of course, doesn't see that.  :)

    I'm a blue-eyed northern European whose hair used to be dark brown and whose skin tans easily and almost never gets sun-burn.  So, I had a life-time of questions about the color of my eyes not "matching" my hair and looked forward with the pleasure to the probability that, like my dad, I'd gray early and be relieved of dealing with "stupid questions."  When I was a teen, I made up a story about an east Indian father who migrated to Europe.  It was easier than trying to explain about Bavarians and Italians and North Africans migrating back and forth across the Alps.

    Americans want to know where people are from but their attention span for complete answers tends to be short.

    Prejudice seems to be a universal habit.  It's not necessarily antagonistic.  Often our enthusiasms arise from prejudices, beliefs we've acquired from someone else.

    How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

    by hannah on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:31:39 AM PDT

  •  I understand this situation completely (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RoCali

    I, too, am a subtle blend of Anglo Saxon and Native American.  I faced similar situations at my workplace, which was in a predominatly Hispanic area.
      Now, I have always been open and proud of my heritage and genetics and have frequently shared these facts with my co-workers.
      Still, I was stereotyped as "the white girl".  I have been accused of "white guilt" and told that I couldn't possibly understand what it felt like to have prejudice in my history.
       Always I reminded people "ummm, I'm only half 'white'".  
      Yet, I have my mother's fair skin and blond hair.  ( as a side note, no one has any idea where my blond hair came from since I have a family of brunettes; I've been assured that the mailman was not blond).
      The point I feel that Rocali was trying to make was that prejudice is not a characteristic of one 'race' or culture.  It is something we all face in various forms.  while these comments were not personally hurtful to me, I found them incredibly sad.  

  •  Knee jerk Assumtions (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    pwrmac5, RoCali

    We all do them and are the subject or victim of them.

    Thanks for the diary. The idea of the assumptions we make struck a chord with me and some of my own experience of assumptions on race; subtler assumptions which can be more instructive or revealing than more obvious or extreme situations.

    She said that they make many assumptions and cliches about her and her "privileged" upbringing

    I grew up in and saw many places outside of the US where as a White American I was a distinct but still privileged minority. And I heard many amusing or odd assumptions about myself and Americans in general. When my family moved back to the US when I was a teen in 1964, the suburbs where I lived were just about all white and half of the city we were near was almost exclusively African American. But in those relatively innocent days if I went to a music store in a Black neighborhood I felt no different than I did in in India and other places. That all abruptly changed after the riots when MLK was assassinated. That shop was burned out and for a while I did not visit a lot of parts of the city. I made the assumption that I would no longer be welcome.

    The summer after high school I worked for a real estate agent in the city and on the circle nearby African Drummers met and played daily and I again had reason to go into areas not many White people did. I met an older resident manager of an apartment my boss was managing and got an insight into the point of view of an African American who had to deal with some day to day cultural issues with African exchange Students and immigrants who rented there. I was glad to find I had no reason to feel out of place in my experiences and even though I could see I was eyed as an outsider I was quite used to that growing up overseas. Any assumptions people had were up to them and I just got on with things.

    In College I worked part time and summers at a major national library in extensive underground stack areas where I was a token white with a hippie appearance. There were one or two other "White people" in our section so in contrast I got to be the "little hippie". I was more accepted and part of the employees there than a lot of places I have been but there was a complete range of reactions to me from hostility to the opposite. But I was surprised that several people went out of their way to say I was different than most White people. Of course I was pleased but also a bit embarrassed and puzzled to hear these comments of trust and acceptance but I guess it was in part because I usually take everyone at face value without assumptions (or at least came across that way). And Hippies in those days for a short while had a reputation as being non-racist. So in a way I sometimes challenged their assumptions about White people just by being me. And for me, since there was a complete cross section of education and backgrounds and age groups from the black community there I found it impossible to make any reliable assumptions about anyone either.

    But here is the thing. My co-workers knew I was there in the "Stay in School" program and qualified to have the job by meeting certain financial criteria. My mother supported us in those days selling hosiery in a dept store because My father's glamorous job overseas came to an end and not long after his live unraveled, diverged from ours and our lifestyle quickly went to the budget side of things.. She did what she had to do to keep things going and went back and finished her University education and eventually got a job similar to my father's and was even posted to 2 African countries.  At one point during the lean times my mother was able to afford some lumber etc. and my youngest brother and I built a medium sized deck on the back of our house. We designed it ourselves and built it ourselves with only a little bit of advice on the decking and joist spacing from a guy in a hardware store. When I showed a photo of it to people at work one lady, who always called me "professor", made an allusion that suggested that we were only able to do it because White people automatically got training and education denied to Black people. So I realized that to her while I was cool up to a point, she felt I still had a head start of privileges compared to her and other African Americans. Her assumption was not unreasonable from her viewpoint.

    Denial of education (intended or unintended status quo) has been a curse and even a tool for a long time. But my brother and  I never had any formal education on any kind of building White or otherwise. What was different was belief. If someone grows up without believing "Yes I/We can!" it means that they have been inculcated with a subconscious message from White America that "no you can't" and many bought into it and blame things as they are on not being "given" the right education. Again an assumption that tries to explain why things are taking so long to get better.

    We had our father as a role model for hands on work. He never did any construction as such but was very handy with tools and could come up with just about anything when it was needed and we learned that from him. He did not come from a privileged background. I do not have any exotic heritage from either side of the family (my grandmother on my father's side was Born in Australia...and not even a convict background.) His father was an upholsterer in Southern California and they lived in a multi-generation house and summered in a self erected shack on the beach during the depression. His older brothers were truck drivers and his own ticket out of that environment was via the GI bill after WWII. (He also was valedictorian of his year in HS). He picked up fluent Spanish growing up in CA and went on to learn and speak many other languages. His efforts challenged other people's assumptions about non Ivy-league graduates and got him a plum job after University.

    So I was privileged in a way but only due to my fathers own efforts. My childhood was spent in foreign countries where having multiple servants was the norm, in private schools, traveling first class etc. The abrupt end of that life changed those things but things that counted since we fortunately did not have parents with grandiose notions.

    So, when my co-worker did not believe me when I said my brother and I had no training whatsoever in any form of construction my reaction to my co-worker's opinion was a just a mixture of sadness and other things. We did not even take "shop" in school. She said I was pulling her leg to deny it. My thought was I did nothing that anyone here couldn't do. It was all down to belief; all down to assumptions.

    I was different in other ways than my color. besides doing my work I did a lot of reading and a few of my co-workers made comments such as "....why you gots to always be readin' them books?" Which I found odd because we all read a bit when we should have been working. (maybe I was worse than most but I still got my work done...) With others I'd talk music and one buddy allowed that the only White performers with "Soul" were Joe Cocker and Janis Joplin" and another who was definitely on the road to Funk was a big Jimi Hendrix fan. I came to realize I was accepted at the time as much for my long hair as my nature which made me wonder. But all the same I feel very fortunate to have worked there and have an African American boss (and not the last) and learned a lot of lessons about myself and people and the US and some of our assumptions.

    Two last things. I was chosen by my boss's boss (a white Jewish man) to do a special project moving books around to help a researcher who would be accessing a particular section. 1) I have a Jewish sounding name (I'm not) and 2) I was a White, part-time short term worker and he gave it to me to do instead of any of the other people who worked there. I think I knew why and I rebelled by "forgetting" to do it. I nearly lost my job over it but I just could not do it for him. He was not an extreme racist but he definitely talked down to and undervalued the African American staff there. I just could not be an enabler of his assumptions.

    And finally, I was on a bus in San Francisco right after the Jonestown tragedy (not too many White people aboard) and two AA women in the seat in front of us started speaking loudly (for our benefit apparently) about the events (paraphrasing) ...What will those crazy white people do next? My stifled knee jerk response to their assumptions would have been a loud comment to no one in particular something like..."Why would so many African Americans follow a White cult leader to the middle of nowhere and end up committing suicide? I figured the two ladies would find out themselves the awful truth and so I just let it go. Better they be embarrassed in private and come to their own conclusions. I did not know why they felt like saying what they said for our benefit but I wanted to not make any assumptions.....

    As a co-worker of mine at the Library often said
    "Never assume...cause it just makes an Ass out of U & Me

    Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie

    by IreGyre on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:31:35 AM PDT

Permalink | 39 comments