LIVEBLOG #3 Clinton-Obama Faith Forum

LIVE BLOG #2 from Messiah College [PA], it's Sunday Night w/ Hillary and Barack!!! The Compassion forum at Messiah College in Grantham, Pennsylvania.

This is thread #3 of the forum. (This is #1, the Mothership)

Here is thread #2

Hillary Clinton is going first, and Barack Obama will go second. the duration is 90 minutes and it's being carried on CNN and on CNN.com.

Website for the Compassion Forum

Cnn.Com live streaming

•  All right, Obama's up.

  They're starting with the 'bitter' stuff.

  by haruki on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:52:36 PM PDT

  •  Oh, and thanks for the diary, kate!

    by haruki on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:53:07 PM PDT

    •  sure! Links are live now.

      by kate mckinnon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:53:35 PM PDT

  •  He's already got a laugh from the audience...

    "my words may be clumsy...which happens surprisingly often on a pres. campaign..."

    by haruki on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:53:38 PM PDT

•  Man he sounds beautiful already.

  I can listen to him talk about this for an hour and 45 if need be.

  by kate mckinnon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:54:09 PM PDT

  •  kate

    are we watching the same program.he`s terrible in this format.--hming and hawing. i`ve never heard him so inarticulate.

    by DocbytheBay on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:28:02 PM PDT

•  SLINKERWINK

  Please change your title to Mothership -- and link to diaries #2 and #3.

  by gchaucer2 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:54:20 PM PDT

•  I love when Obama speaks truth to power

  He is telling it like it is people!

  by AHiddenSaint on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:54:21 PM PDT

•  Thank you kate!!!!!

  by gchaucer2 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:54:36 PM PDT

•  He just sounds so much better

  Now let's wait until the Wright issue. Hopefully he has that response down

  by jkb246 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:54:45 PM PDT

•  This audience is eating it up, they love him

  And he's so smooth and well-spoken.
  I don't think that this candidate will EVER be hurt by swiftboating.
  We've got a juggernaut, guys.

  by beholderseye on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:55:01 PM PDT

  •  There was a big response from the crowd

    as he came out, unless my ears deceived me, bigger than for HRC.

    by murphy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:58:35 PM PDT

•  My theological comment for the day--

  PLEASE GOD, LET THIS MAN BE OUR PRESIDENT !

  by murphy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:55:27 PM PDT

  •  And so it is

    Amen.

    by CocoaLove on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:06:22 PM PDT

  •  Make it so. n/t

    by oscarsmom on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:16:11 PM PDT

    •  Isn't that Star Trek ? nt

      by murphy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:18:58 PM PDT

      •  So say we all

        BSG.

        by pepper mint on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:31:13 PM PDT

•  whew, no yellow

  by bigforkgirl on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:55:27 PM PDT

  •  That color was hard on the eyes! n/t

    by 3goldens on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:56:40 PM PDT

•  Rock On, Kate. Over to you!!!!!

  yee haw. This multi stage live blog is fun.

  by auntialias on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:55:31 PM PDT

•  Campbell sez

  but they say you're an elitist!

  by bumblebums on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:55:40 PM PDT

  •  I wish one time - JUST ONCE! - someone would say

    "but YOU'RE the elitist, Campbell.  Everyone knows it."

    by Mr Met on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:07:28 PM PDT

•  points out he's been working in churches since

  he got out of college, has been pointing out that we need to link our humanitarian work with faith since day 1.

  by kate mckinnon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:55:42 PM PDT

•  He just nailed it on the Elitest part

  Tear people down instead of lift people up. He's trying to bring back true faith not fake christians who want to control faith and congress.

  by AHiddenSaint on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:55:52 PM PDT

  •  Nice implied reference hidden in there

    by bumblebums on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:57:08 PM PDT

•  He nails the first big question.

  by Phil S 33 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:56:05 PM PDT

•  Ugh

  I can't watch this...religion makes me so uncomfortable.

  by foxsucks81 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:56:50 PM PDT

  •  Yeah, feel ya

    but other stuff elbows in.

    by bumblebums on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:57:43 PM PDT

  •  how would you feel if I said athism makes me

    uncomfortable? making a blanket statement like that whats' the point? It not like they being asked to recite Bible or Gita verses.

    by SensibleDemocrat on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:59:27 PM PDT

    •  It was just a personal statement

      not a blanket one. Talking about his own feelings. You needn't bristle.

      by bumblebums on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:00:47 PM PDT

    •  It's rare in history

      that atheists are a threat to the religious (i.e. we might not believe what you believe, but we won't kill you over it).  However, the opposite has not been true.  Religious people have killed and persecuted people not of the right religion, or of no religion, or scientists who "threaten" religion by simply learning things about the world, time and time again.

      So religion makes me uncomfortable.  Especially when it's treated as a requirement for full citizenship.

      by kismet on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:04:38 PM PDT

      •  Communism?

        Seems to me like atheists can be just as repressive as theists when they hold the reins.

        by ZombieRoboNinja on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:12:05 PM PDT

        •  I didn't say "never"

          that's the one, obvious exception that I know of.

          by kismet on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:18:44 PM PDT

        •  and so can believers in liberal democracy,

          capitalism & just about anything else. People impose their own standards on others all the time. Has always happened and always will, no matter what label you put on those standards.

          by mertmh on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:21:42 PM PDT

          •  god spoke to me for years...

            then it turned out to be tinnitus. Thank god.

            by el vasco on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:29:24 PM PDT

    •  Atheism isn't a belief system

      anymore than not believing in santa claus is a belief system

      by Capt Morgan on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:08:36 PM PDT

      •  Sure it is ...

        ... because all the definitions that (most) atheists use to describe what they don't believe in are the monotheistic/dualistic ones. That's why monotheists don't find atheists as threatening as polytheists--because the atheists are still playing the game by the monotheistic/dualistic paradigm, while the polytheists insist the universe is more complicated than black and white.

        Your mana may vary.

        by ibonewits on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:26:56 PM PDT

  •  This country is full of people

    who claim to be Christians.

    Since Obama really is one, it might help for him to elucidate some of the basic principles, so they can get some of the substance of what they pretend to have embraced....

    by murphy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:00:08 PM PDT

    •  It's the reason why I'm a Christian by belief not

      religion. I rather believe in Christ, but not claim a higher understanding then anyone else. I rather have disagreements about the bible and not claim there could be some things wrong with it. I rather respect other people view and understand who they are instead of claim they are the devil. To me Christianity is believing in the heart of another and forgiving.

      by AHiddenSaint on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:04:38 PM PDT

      •  I've spent years

        trying to explain to people that you can be a Xn and not be a biblical literalist.

        The heart of Christianity is love. The most important thing is to love and to be loved.

        And love means, among other things, doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.

        Being a Christian does not mean spending most of your time telling other people that they aren't Christian because they don't believe God created the world and everything in it in 6 calendar days of 24 hours !

        by murphy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:10:28 PM PDT

        •  I agree fully on that part

          I'm more spiritual then I am religious when it comes to these things. That is sort of how I came to it.

          by AHiddenSaint on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:13:09 PM PDT

        •  Belief in literal interpretation of the bible

          is NOT the position of "Christian churches." It is the position ONLY of fundamentalist Christian churches. Those who equate Christianity--or religion--with belief in such literalism show that they are simply historical and religious illiterates. And should stop their self-righteous and ignorant condemnation of those who consider themself churchgoers and members of a church.

          by skeptica on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:47:20 PM PDT

          •  could we give them a different name....

            like "Christianist" or something that rather would indicate what I believe would be a false following of Christ based on distorted ideas not found in the Gospels?

            by billlaurelMD on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:31:02 PM PDT

  •  I'm watching Star Wars

    and reading you guys :)

    by oscarsmom on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:17:00 PM PDT

•  Likewise he ought not use masculine Pronouns for

  God

  by GB1437a on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:57:00 PM PDT

  •  I don't think that is fair

    faith is personal

    by indybend on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:59:39 PM PDT

    •  I feel like it is a hold-over from a patriarchal

      society... and Image, if Obama were writing about God, he would use gender neutral language.

      by GB1437a on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:26 PM PDT

      •  Good grief (n/t)

        by banjolele on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:11:27 PM PDT

        •  It is a really important topic in theological

          circles

          by GB1437a on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:18:35 PM PDT

          •  I'm sorry, you may be

            up on the latest theological debates, but you're absolutely out of touch with the voters.

            by plum on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:21:24 PM PDT

            •  that I agree with, I'm just hopeful we can get

              past it one day

              by GB1437a on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:22:51 PM PDT

          •  Yes, but Obama is not a theologian

            There's no reason for him to address it, especially if he personally does not believe it or see God that way.

            If he perceives God as a masculine figure, let him use He to describe Him. Once we start insisting he use He/She (or any other form) he is no longer talking about his own faith... he's pandering, which is what many of us have been up in arms about in regards to Hillary.

            by banjolele on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:23:07 PM PDT

            •  I just think he is better theologically informed

              than that... His favorite author is Rienhold Niebuhr, he is pretty theologically advanced

              by GB1437a on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:27:52 PM PDT

          •  I can understand why in Christianity

            you would use the masculine pronoun.  God is the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost.  All three being one in the same, God.  Yet only the Holy Ghost is not gender specific.

            by in2mixin on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:24:28 PM PDT

            •  off topic, but why do you think that is??

              Patriarchal societies ... and (following the Judeo-Christian form) if a messiah had come in the form of a woman, she would have been totally ignored.  God as HE is really kind of arbitrary.

              by billlaurelMD on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:34:01 PM PDT

              •  god reffered to in the masculine in the

                Old Testament too.

                Genesis 1:27

                27 So God created man in his own image,
                      in the image of God he created him;

                by in2mixin on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:23:37 PM PDT

                •  ummmm.....when was the Torah written....

                  also I think Paul said that "In Christ there is neither male or female" (Galatians 3:28).  Not that I think all that much of St. Paul.

                  by billlaurelMD on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:31:39 PM PDT

                  •  not sure what you mean

                    The Tora includes the 5 books of Moses

                    Genesis
                    Exodus
                    Leviticus
                    Numbers
                    Deuteronomy

                    so...the Tora and Old Testament written at the same time.

                    by in2mixin on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:43:22 PM PDT

                  •  Galatians 3:28

                    Galatians 3:28

                    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

                    Another words we're all equal in the eyes of the lord.  Not referring to god's gender though.

                    by in2mixin on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 09:47:41 PM PDT

      •  Good grief, do you want

        him to sink his campaign? Imagine the Republican ads against ANY Democrat who failed to refer to god as He. Politics is the art of the possible, not a purity test.

        by plum on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:19:43 PM PDT

      •  oy...

        by el vasco on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:31:10 PM PDT

  •  There is a view that we are all

    feminine, receptive in relationship to God masculine, projective

    by joynow on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 07:22:33 PM PDT

•  Q #2:

  Do you believe God intervenes in real-time?

  O's answer:

  God intervenes, but I don't grasp how. Best I can do is to act in accordance to the precepts of my faith.

  by haruki on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:57:12 PM PDT

  •  Much better than Clinton's answer

    He spoke simply and cleanly, without jumping around.

    by raqsasim on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:58:20 PM PDT

    •  re

      What was her answer?

      That god shoots ducks too?

      by cookiesandmilk on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:44 PM PDT

•  Another good answer

  Always say you want to be on God's side instead of trying to divine His will, as it were.

  by BlueDWarrior on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:57:16 PM PDT

  •  Ah, but Lincoln said that first!

    Watch for plagiarism charges from HRC.

    by texasmom on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:48 PM PDT

•  Yay, points out commonality between "all great

  religions,"  seeking to bring people of different faith together, says we should act in ways that are consistent with our ideals and beliefs.

  by kate mckinnon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:57:19 PM PDT

  •  initially, Islam saw things that way

    from my limited understanding of how Mohammed saw things (gotten from a book called "The History of God", basically how we got to monotheism in its three basic forms).

    by billlaurelMD on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 08:36:06 PM PDT

•  Great answer by Obama

  by SensibleDemocrat on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:57:28 PM PDT

•  Clinging

  O: scripture talks about clinging to what's good.

  I've talked about it before. Religion is a bulwark a foundation [he's referencing Martin Luther]

  What I was saying is that when econ hardship hits in this community, they've got family, faith, their traditions. Not bad things, but what they've got left.

  What they become bitter about is that Govt isn't listening to them.

  Unfortunate that in political process of campaing.... miscontrue words.

  I am Christian. Did work w/ churches. No one has done mre to reach out to chur5ches to talk about obligations to do good works and inform our politics...

  by auntialias on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:57:40 PM PDT

  •  Yeah

    For defending CLING

    by BenjaminOMeara on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:58:23 PM PDT

  •  This man knows his stuff you have to give

    credit there on at least that part.

    by AHiddenSaint on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:59:20 PM PDT

  •  See?

    Obama actually READS the Bible and makes intelligent interpretations of it. Something Hillary couldn't dream of doing.

    by StarkyLuv on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:00:56 PM PDT

  •  More context on my Martin Luther reference:

    first two lines:

    A mighty fortress is our God
    A Bulwark never failing
    ...

    and other hymns refer to a firm foundation

    by auntialias on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:46:20 PM PDT

•  Sincerity?

  Which has it and which doesn't?

  by JCWilmore on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:57:47 PM PDT

•  Man, he really doesn't EVER look to diss anyone!

  What class!!

  by Phil S 33 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:57:49 PM PDT

•  is it me

  or are the kinds of questions so far much "heavier" than the crap Hillary got?

  by lisastar on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:58:54 PM PDT

  •  he can take it.

    by kate mckinnon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:00:23 PM PDT

  •  even if they are Obama is nailing them

    He's not pandering and he is speaking truth to power. He's trying to bring us up not tear us down. Obama truly knows how to answer the tough questions. Can you imagine Obama and McCain debating?

    by AHiddenSaint on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:00:32 PM PDT

    •  That is key--thank you

      The one thing I want to hear is that he is not pandering.  That's one thing I've had enough of from Dem candidates of yore.

      by oscarsmom on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:21:55 PM PDT

  •  That's OK. He can handle it. n/t

    by LCA on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:01:33 PM PDT

  •  lisatar

    it`s you--talk about softball questions.sounds like a lot of obama plants among the questioners. they just zoomed in on the audience and caught a gentleman sleeping. very inspirational.

    by DocbytheBay on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:36:31 PM PDT

•  Q3: Abortion.

  Most Americans believe abortion is between a woman and her doctors. They also believe it's a taking of life. How do the terms pro-life/choice reflect this, and can we find common ground?

  Obama:

  Yes...

  moral dimension to abortion...

  mistake to avoid that as pro-choice people...

  by haruki on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:58:58 PM PDT

  •  That's my response

    I wonder if it will sell up here when I get asked it again, like he sold it.

    by noonan2 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:59:57 PM PDT

•  abortion

  1.  we must acknowledge that there is a moral dimension to abortion.  It is a mistake not to admit this.

  2.  recognize that people of good will can exist on both sides of this issue.  No one wants to have an abortion.

  3. We should be doing everything we can to avoid unwanted pregnancies- this is our obligation.  Teach abstinence in concert with teaching sex ed and providing good medical care and contraception.

  by kate mckinnon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:59:39 PM PDT

  •  Stop talking Obama

    Saying a bit to much. Wow applause

    by jkb246 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:00:34 PM PDT

  •  Hallelujah!!

    by AussieJo on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:04 PM PDT

•  He goes to the ROOT of the issue

  This guy is so fucking inspiring.
  He doesn't just go "Oh, I'm for/against abortion"

  He says, "Here, find common ground, and lets get down to the ROOT of the issue and change the culture of america"

  Damn.
  Awesome.

  by beholderseye on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:59:45 PM PDT

•  Ed. note:

  He sounds so damn smooth when speaking. This is perhaps the best his voice has been in all of the debates. His body language is also relaxed. No stress.

  I love this.

  by haruki on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:00:29 PM PDT

•  Q: On Abortion

  Can we find common ground between majority who feel it's ok and those who don't.
  BO: Yes we can find common ground. First we need to accept this is a moral choice. People of good will should be able to understand this.
  Comprehensive approach: abstinence, good medical care for women, age appropriate education, contraception education, adoption as an option. If we put all these things in place, then we take some of the edge off the debate.
  Woman's responsibility and choice w/ doctor, pastor and family.

  by greenchiledem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:00:30 PM PDT

  •  How enlightened of him

    Like music to my ears...it's been too long, people.

    by oscarsmom on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:23:10 PM PDT

    •  You know what else is nice.

      It's not as simple as the three word phrase that I can't even remember right now! Rare, legal and ?
      So it was nice not to hear Sen. Obama try to make it a sound bite. It's not a sound bite issue.

      by greenchiledem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:42:27 PM PDT

•  H says you're being elitist

  O: that's an example of campaign. We're trying to tear each other down rather than lifting the country up.

  My trajectory is to tell Dems to get into church, reach out to evangelicals...

  I've been doing that for the last 20 years.

  Q: Do you believe that God intervenes in history in real time.

  A: O: God intervenes, but his plans are too mysterious for me to understand. Best for me to be an instrument of his will...in accordance with the precenps of my faith.

  Acting/applying core value of Christianity. and all religions that I'm my bro/sister's keeper. then I'm doing my part to move God's agenda forward. I don't know what it is, I don't presume to know.

  Act in ways that are consonate with values we cherish. Sometimes  hard to do in politics

  by auntialias on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:00:32 PM PDT

•  I like how he concedes

  That there may be irreconcilable differences in-between the pro-choice and pro-life crowds as it were

  by BlueDWarrior on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:00:43 PM PDT

  •  Yes, also how he says he does not KNOW things

    ..I like how he says straight out that he does not know for sure when life begins. To me this highlights his LACK of arrogance!! As opposed to the moron-in-chief we currently have who thinks he has God's voice. Ugh. Anyway, I have much more respect for someone who admits when they DONT know something.

    by SanDiegoDem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:43 PM PDT

    •  That is extremely refreshing. n/t

      by LCA on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:18:46 PM PDT

•  Q: Does life bein at conception?

  BO: I don't presume to know the answer to that question.
  (Good answer)

  by greenchiledem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:01:42 PM PDT

  •  did they ask Clinton that question?

    by DJShay on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:46 PM PDT

    •  Yes they did

      but I don't recall her answer.

      by murphy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:05:16 PM PDT

    •  Me either.

      Don't remember. Her answers were not very memorable.

      by greenchiledem on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:39:04 PM PDT

      •  she talked about making abortion rare

        which is a good answer.

        by auntialias on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 07:07:33 PM PDT

•  oh good answer

  took that question and put it back in this slot

  by jkb246 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:01:49 PM PDT

•  WTF is it me

  or is he being asked questions that are infinitely more outrageous than the ones Hillary answered? This life begins at conception question just ticks me off

  by Its any one guess on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:05 PM PDT

  •  it's anyone's guess, isn't it?

    it's a deep and important question, but certainly not one that anyone can presume to answer.

    by kate mckinnon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:03:06 PM PDT

  •  She had a life begins question n/t

    by BenjaminOMeara on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:04:28 PM PDT

  •  But he is prepared

    Something that HRC wasn't

    by jkb246 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:04:48 PM PDT

  •  I feel like he is being gamed, BUT

    He is so much more prepared.
    They are really trying to get him with some "gotchas" and he's just nailing it out the ballpark one after another.

    by beholderseye on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:10:02 PM PDT

•  "Is it when a cell separates?

  Is it when a soul stirs? "

  poetry

  by Randolph06 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:07 PM PDT

  •  He make my soul stir

    I'm ALIVE !

    by ballerina X on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:03:01 PM PDT

    •  He talks so naturally using Christian references

      He is a Christian in his soul, not just on the outside.

      by bigforkgirl on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:04:57 PM PDT

    •  Careful Chris Matthews ;)

      by turneresq on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:18:48 PM PDT

•  Why didn't Hillary get these Choice questions?

  All she got to talk about was sunsets.

  by billybam on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:14 PM PDT

  •  I think she did get some

    Not going to say I was paying close attention to her answers, but it was something along the lines of the safe/legal/rare mantra from Bill's administration.

    by murphy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:04:02 PM PDT

  •  She did get choice questions.

    She just didn't get applause.

    by joynow on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 07:31:50 PM PDT

•  Got a bit of applause after he finished.

  Q4: do you believe life begins at conception? if not, where?

  O: this isn't something i've come to a firm resolution on. think it's very difficult to know what that means. don't presume to know answer. what i know (as i've said before) is that there is something extraordinarily powerful about potential life, and that that has a moral weight to it that we take into consideration when having these debates.

  by haruki on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:16 PM PDT

•  Q on Abortion

  A; We can find common ground. requires a coupla things. Requires us to acknowledge that there's a moral dimension to abortion. Those of us pro choice have not talked about.

  It is a wrenching choice for anybody to thinkabout

  2nd thing: once we acknowledge that -- epople of good will can exist on both sides. How we determine what's right at that moment.. we should be doing everuything to avoid unwanted pregancies.

  What I've conisstently talked about -- abstinence... [feh. sound gone out. over to you, Kossaks]

  by auntialias on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:38 PM PDT

•  that is the best reasoned answer on how to deal

  with the abortion issue I have ever heard.

  by Statusquomustgo on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:02:50 PM PDT

  •  it's what Bill Clinton always had to say, too

    but without the poetry about the cells and the soul.

    by kate mckinnon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:04:06 PM PDT

    •  and it was too bad he waited until he left office

      to take his stand.

      by Statusquomustgo on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:08:21 PM PDT

•  Q5: on self-termination of life (end of life qs)

  O: we've got to be careful.

  believe in living will...

  by haruki on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:03:00 PM PDT

•  I LOVE...

  ...how he isn't conceited enough to think that he understands God's plans and tries not to speak for him.

  Right-wing evangelicals need to take note.

  by StarkyLuv on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:03:08 PM PDT

  •  Said about the same thing