Daily Kos

Voting "D" no matter what

Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:50:33 PM PDT

I've been a Democrat since I first started voting back in the stone age.  I have always voted for the Democratic ticket in every election. I will again.  I'd rather die than sit an election out or vote for a Republican. It's not even a matter of loyalty, it's common sense.  I don't understand those who would cut off their own noses to spite their faces and not vote at all unless their candidate is the nominee.
Welcome to MY world in which my candidates never get past the starting gate. I was for Gore. I was for Edwards.  I was for Dean, etc. Long before that I was for RFK. I'm for the Democrat.  Whoever the hell it is. We can't afford four more years of GOP insanity, war, poverty, desperation and hopelessness.  It's kicking the stuffing out of us. Worldwide! We must win back the White House and Congress asap. Only then can we hold the current administration accountable for their crimes. They'll get away with all of it if McCain wins in November.  He's ONE OF THEM.

Straight talk?
Straight Talk McCain

The tone of some supporters of some candidates has reached unbearable proportions. For me. I only speak for myself. This Boomer has seen too many elections to join in the slash and burn bullshit. We unwisely do the attack work of the GOP for them. All they have to do is sit back, watch us flog each other to death, take notes and regurgitate the TPs in September and October. We even provide links for them. In the meantime, they've got their revolting candidate from hell all lined up, endorsed by Bush, and he's sliding happily by despite his obvious insanity and vengeful nature. Good god, McCain is for TORTURE just like the murderous thugs occupying our White House. Is there ANY question at all that ANY Democratic candidate is better than GOP rotter, McInsane? (Not counting Lieberman)
McCainTortureRules

John and his wealthy wife have no idea what it's like to live in the "real" world. Cindy McCain reminds me of Pat Nixon. Poor Pat only had a cloth coat and no money for plastic surgery unlike the fabulously rich Cindy but they share the stoic look of a spouse who hates politics. John McCain would deny you and me the health care he's had for his own skin  cancer...at taxpayer expense. He's crazy, he's nuts, he's bonkers. He's a time bomb...ready to bomb. He is a rich nutcase warmongering infrastructure destroying elitist...and he's bitter too. Yet he's getting a free pass from the media.
MSRNC McCain

Let's aim our antagonistism over to the other side of the aisle where it belongs. It's the GOP that has systematically destroyed this country, especially post WWII and indubitably since November 22, 1963. This administration didn't come out of thin air, they've been hatching in the mud for decades. Cheney and Rummy have plotted since Nixon's days. And only about 30% of us seemed to give a shit the entire time, over decades. I don't need to be told what to think by the corporate media, by the government nor by supporters of other candidates. I'm not trying to tell anyone else what to think or how to behave, I'm merely making observations and having my turn at the mike.
And excuse me but did people lose their senses of humor completely?  There hasn't been too much fun around here since January but a lot of ass kicking of fellow Democrats. It's loathsome. John McCain must be loving it. Bush and Cheney too.  And Rove.  Boy, this is right up their disgusting dirty alley of smashmouth politics. Lee Atwater must be salivating in his grave despite "changing his mind" as he neared death.
Out Of Harm's Way
And all they have to do is wait, rest up, and then outspend all of us by November while smearing our remaining candidate into oblivion.
Could we perhaps stop giving them such a huge assist?
United we stand, divided we fall.

 

Poll

I will vote for the Democratic ticket

73%59 votes
26%21 votes

| 80 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: John McCain, 2008 (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 96 comments

  •  Obama or bust. (4+ / 0-)

    Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:51:54 PM PDT

  •  hey, it's a big world (7+ / 0-)

    with lots of Democrats. I'll vote for any one of them just so long as you don't ask me to vote for Hillary Clinton.

    •  I would vote for just about any candidate (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      TX Unmuzzled, Panda, WisCheez

      that the Democratic Party nominated: Edwards, Biden, Dodd, Richardson, Obama, Kucinich, Gravel, Kerry, Dean, Clark, Mosely-Braun, Sharpton, Al Gore, Bill Bradley, Jerry Brown, Paul Tsongas, Jesse Jackson, Gary Hart, Michael Dukakis, Walter Mondale, Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy . . .

      It would be very difficult for the Democrats to pick a candidate I wouldn't vote for.

      Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

      by johnny rotten on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:00:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm voting for Obama... (6+ / 0-)

    should he receive the most elected delegates--no matter what.  I'll write in his name, should the Clinton fiasco manage to wrest the nomination from him.

  •  I just cannot buy this (4+ / 0-)

    that it is better to vote for your party regardless

    it just hasn't been effective as a strategy - the Clinton years destroyed the Democratic party and achieved little for the progressive agenda

    the next president's first term will be a clusterf*ck - i think Obama could POSSIBLY navigate through it, and has the judgement to be worth a punt

    but McCain and Clinton won't be far apart in what they'd do, so better it is hung on the neck of the Republicans and we maintain an opposition party - particularly as a Clinton ticket will harm our down-ticket races so badly

    No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood

    by ResponsibleAccountable on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:53:43 PM PDT

  •  Me too, (4+ / 0-)

    but I will be pretty fucking sad to be voting for Hillary. OTOH I would be pretty fucking INSANE to enable McCain.

    If Obama loses the primary, I will have to figure out some way to deal with my grief and regroup.

    It's a neighborly day in this beautywood. Relentless!

    by ablington on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:53:46 PM PDT

  •  I'll vote for the dem (3+ / 0-)

    but there is only 1 left int he race, Hillary is like oting for Lieberman, over my dead body.

    After Obama's eighth straight victory, Penn told reporters: "Winning Democratic primaries is not a qualification or a sign of who can win the general election.

    by nevadadem on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:53:48 PM PDT

    •  i think this is the thing (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      TX Unmuzzled

      HRC is like Lieberman - in which case if you are voting in an administration that will do many of the same things the Republicans want ANYWAY - like the Clintons did last time - then it should be branded as such so as to not have the electorate blame democrats when it all goes to shit

      the Democrats are still getting the blame for things that were really Republican agenda items but happened under Clinton

      No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood

      by ResponsibleAccountable on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:57:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  ha. exactly, navadadem. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      TX Unmuzzled

      Arianna - when you're right, you're right. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/memo-to-obama-moving-to-t_b_110026.html

      by jj24 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:26:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I will vote for the Democratic nominee (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    TX Unmuzzled, Panda, goreckm

    The only problem is that if comes down to Hillary vs. McCain, there's no Democrat to vote for.  I seriously can't tell the difference between them anymore.

    •  I'd still take the (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      remingtonsteele

      friendly face of fascism over the nasty neocons.

      •  Why? (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        TX Unmuzzled

        So that friendly face of facism, as you put it, can be empowered, legitimized, and completely co-opt this party just as the neocons became empowered, legitimized, and co-opted the GOP?

        No thanks.  If the party wants to go down that route, they can't expect this level of continuing support.

        •  One reason: (0+ / 0-)

          To protect the uterus from Fundamentalist GOP claws. If nothing else, Clinton is a woman, a mother, and someday may be a grandmother. That places her ahead of John McCain in legitimacy and empathy for women.

          •  You're called a "single issue voter" (0+ / 0-)

            Now this diary makes sense.

            "We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

            by TX Unmuzzled on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:43:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  And is someone going to protect me (0+ / 0-)

            from worldwide hatred engendered by aggressive war?  Is someone going to protect me from being scapegoated every election as the cause of malaise for every single spoiled, coddled, idiotic asshole who votes in garbage only to point the finger at me when the inevitable results ensue?

            Don't scare me with the GOP, when we've got a Presidential candidate who voted to launch war.  When this party enabled the GOP, it lost the capacity to use the GOP as a boogieman to scare me into submission.

            This country needs some serious reforms, and needs them right now.  Clinton as a woman didn't give a damn about destroying women in Iraq; I'm not stupid enough to think she would protect me were it inconvenient.

            •  I wasn't attempting to scare you (0+ / 0-)

              You can vote for whoever you like. Whatever. Vote for the GOP if you choose to as they don't scare you. Who scapegoated you every election? Certainly not I. I'm not spoiled, coddled nor an idiotic asshole. I never scapegoated anyone. I am stating my own opinion that a Democratic administration is better than a Republican one for most of the citizens of this country. I don't need you to tell me how far right this country has swung and how fucked up the system is. I didn't say Hillary would protect you from a thing...just a few uteruses here and there that may be of no concern to you. Do you think the GOP will protect you from anything? Ever?
              No need for you to get so insulting nor to take this so personally.

  •  Don't worry about the vote tallys... (0+ / 0-)

    we are in the DKos bubble...IRL there will e a lot of votes for choice A...

    Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

    by dvogel001 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:54:11 PM PDT

  •  Nice try, but the real Rove is much (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    PBnJ, Panda

    doughier than that.

  •  AMEN BROTHER. I made a Anti-mccain shirt (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Panda, remingtonsteele

    I have a draft similar to this i'm posting tomorrow. I actually jsut made an anti-mccain shirt.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/rabbit/dontvotered.jpg
    i obviously resized it so it wouldnt stretch the screen but yeah.

  •  Partisanship (0+ / 0-)

    Is so 2006.

    2004 was a message to the DLC: don't send us watered down candidates.  Apparently many people have not yet gotten the message.  If this country let's the opportunity that Obama represents slip through its fingers, and instead opts to condemn itself to an endless cycle of partisan bickering that leaves the country in a state of political paralysis, then they screw it.

    Look, when you only have TWO freakin' choices, it's important for the choices to offer somewhat of a contrast.  Is Hillary more liberal than McCain?  OK, sure.  But really.. 8 years of W isn't enough to swing that damned pendulum a little further this way than HRC??

  •  ..is why we get treated like shit (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    johnny rotten, younglady, goreckm

    by Hillary, and why she feels she can get away with calling us "tree-hugging, latte-sipping, Birkenstock-wearing trust fund elitists" and we'll still come crawling back.

    How we know Daffy Duck is Republican: "It's mine, understand? Mine, all mine! Get back down there! Down down down! Go go go! Mine mine mine! Mwahahaha!" --BiPM

    by rhetoricus on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:57:23 PM PDT

  •  CRAZY to vote Repug (5+ / 0-)

    Great diary.  These calls for unity often get drowned out by the ongoing fight over the nomination--which is somehow perceived as more fun, or something.  People in general have a lot more fun posting online when they have a chance to get a little pissy, but it's time to point the piss where it belongs: at John McCain. That guy has a metal plate in his head, or something.  

  •   I thought I was going to vote for Nader (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Panda, sfbob, WisCheez, remingtonsteele

    if a corporate Democrat won the nomination. But no I'm not going to do that. For better or for worse Democrat or bust.

    "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted." Groucho Marx

    by Pinko Elephant on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:57:58 PM PDT

  •  Ummm ok (5+ / 0-)

    We unwisely do the attack work of the GOP for them.

    Why don't you tell that to Hillary? I'll tell you this, if it is Clinton in Novmeber, I will hold my nose and vote for her because McCain is unacceptable, but I will not campaign for her, I will not donate to her.

  •  I'll vote against Mccain no matter what but (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Panda

    I'd only vote for Hillary if polls show she has a shot at winning. I think if she manages to claw her way to the  nomination she will lose in a blowout, in which case I'd vote green or Nader or anybody else. Sorry about the claws remark. I couldn't think of how to express my current disgust with her in a less sexist way.

  •  "We unwisely do the attack work of the GOP (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Harkov311, DJShay, goreckm

    for them."  I'm not sure we are doing this.  I can think of one candidate who is doing this, however.

  •  I will have to.... (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Panda, WisCheez, not a cent, goreckm

    but Hillary has made it very hard to think of voting for her...for anything, ever.

    Both of my sons say the will NOT vote for her...that they will vote down ticket only. I hope it does not come to that, and am reasoning with them.

    But can I just say that I AM TIRED of holding my nose to vote?!!!!!!!!!!

  •  The problem is the "D" is supposed to stand for (0+ / 0-)

    Democrat, not Demagogue. Please take a look at HRC's latest ad for PA, and think about how great she is for the Democratic Party.

    Let's hope we can all vote for a Democratic candidate in November.

    Not a Cent to those who won't fight torture.

    by not a cent on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:04:20 PM PDT

  •  I find the poll insulting... (5+ / 0-)

    This has nothing to do with refusing to vote for anyone but 'my nominee'. It has to do with not voting for someone who is willing to use racism and bigotry to win an election. Had she behaved herself and left the racism out of the primary election I would have voted for her with few reservations. But how do I tell my daughter, who looks like Obama, that I was willing to vote for someone who would use racism to win an election? I am sorry..Hillary knew that she would alienating people to do this..she didn't care. She doesn't want my vote anyway.

    No, I won't vote for McCain.

  •  Not Like Lieberman (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Panda, remingtonsteele

    HRC is far FAR to the left of Lieberman, and even further to the left of McCain.  For that matter, she's to the left of her own husband.  If you won't vote for her, you're showing just how little you've been paying attention to the so-called "issues."  Obama and Hillary have nearly IDENTICAL positions--and if you wouldn't vote for her, maybe you should just be honest with yourself and admit you've fallen for the republican lie about her "character."  You just "don't like her;" she reminds you of a mean librarian who wants badly to be the president of the PTA, she seems "too ambitious," like Lady Macbeth, or something. You're voting (or not voting) because of her image, not because of her beliefs.

    •  She sponsored a bill to make flag-burning illegal (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      TX Unmuzzled, la urracca, goreckm

      despite the fact that it is considered protected political speech. That doesn't sit well with those who value our Constitution and First Amendment rights.

      You should not presume that those who do not support HRC don't follow the issues.

      Not a Cent to those who won't fight torture.

      by not a cent on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:14:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  These colors do run (0+ / 0-)

        I'd like to burn a thousand flags.  And I'd like not to see either candidate participating in the "Faith Forum."  And I'd like never to live another day wherein Obama seems to "reach out" to so-called "values voters" because he's so good and kind he can see "both sides" to every issue. (Did you read what he said about abortion rights at the aforementioned Faith Forum?)  But I think you're missing A LOT if you think either candidate's occasional nod to the right trumps McCain's full-blown xenophobia.  
        •  Introducing a bill to restrict political speech (0+ / 0-)

          is not a "nod to the right." It is a direct attack on our Constitutional liberties.

          That being said, I do not compare HRC to McCain. But at the same time, I am not willing to be an apologist for her.

          And, yes, I read and watched the so-called Faith Forum. If you want to try to construe Obama's statement as somehow attacking abortion rights, I must respectfully disagree.

          Not a Cent to those who won't fight torture.

          by not a cent on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:30:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I am not sure I believe that. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      not a cent

      Why did she vote with the Republicans for the war?

      Why did she vote for the resolution against Iran?

      And WHY did she vote to NOT BAN CLUSTERBOMBS???

      ( from a diary by nowness)

      AMENDMENT PURPOSE:
      To protect civilian lives from unexploded cluster munitions.

      Back then, Obama voted for the ban, Clinton voted against the ban.   Read on....

      nowness's diary :: ::
      Some speculate she voted against the bill so as not to appear soft on terror. A political calculation.

      Here's David Rees via Huffpost:

      I'm not a single-issue voter. But as Obama and Clinton share many policy positions, this vote was revelatory for me. After all, Amendment No. 4882 was an easy one to vote against: Who'd want to risk accusation of "tying the hands of the Pentagon" during a never-ending, global War on Terror? As is so often the case, there was no political cost to doing the wrong thing. And there was no political reward for doing the right thing.

      The High Costs of Political Expediency (via at-Largely)

      In fact, as evidenced by her vote against Amendment No. 4882, it's fair to say that Hillary Clinton stands - or stood (she might regret the vote; we don't know because no one in the media has asked her) - with George W. Bush on the issue of cluster bombs. Just a couple of weeks ago, the Bush administration reiterated its support of this weaponry

      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      •  Tough on defense (0+ / 0-)

        I think she's had to make herself out to be "strong on national security" in the same way pretty much ALL democrats now present themselves as "tough on crime;" that is, because it's a fairly safe way to move toward the center, get some of those votes, and keep the right-wingers from calling her a peace-loving-hippie-girl-who'd-like-to-burn-her-bra. (And the "girl" part of that equation is not to be overlooked. How do women usually manage to break glass ceilings everywhere?  NOT by "going soft" that's for sure.  Like it or not, war is a male invention, and if ever you needed evidence patriarchy still exists, you'd look no further than Iraq. Men made the rules about "toughness" in the public sphere, and women can't always break those rules with as much freedom as they'd like.)  Obama, on the other hand, leans right every now and then on a lot of social issues--that, or he's careful not to say much at all.  
    •  lol I love your comment (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Panda, WisCheez

      and my addition:

      everyone who holds out and votes "mickey mouse" or some other inane write-in, or (God forbid) Nader, has no one to blame but themselves as their rights are slowly stripped away by a reactionary SC that takes our (albeit imperfect) democracy and transforms it into a judeo-christian (whatever that means) fascist dictatorship.

      peace. Stevens isn't gonna last through another admin, fyi.
      I'll settle for losses down ticket (grudgingly), and having gone from a passive Clinton supporter to a passive Obama supporter be relatively let down, but I'm nowhere near the point of having my arrogant purist attitude about "fairness" further fuck down destroy my country.

      yeah, if she wins at this point, it's not fair.  it sucks, in fact.  but it doesn't "McCain" suck.

  •  Nope (0+ / 0-)

    I'm note voting for Republican Hillary Clinton in this general election or any general election.  Obama or I'll vote Dem down ticket and write in Mickey Mouse for President.  

  •  Me not voting for HRC is not about Barack (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    TX Unmuzzled, WisCheez, JTRicher, goreckm

    I am a Barack supporter, and if Hillary manages to get the nomination, my not voting for her won't be because of Barack.  It will be because you can't treat half of the Democratic party like shit, saying that we are drinking crazy kool-aid and we need to get real and expect us to come back.  You can't completely write-off A.A. during the primaries and ignore us because we are voting for your opponent and expect us to comeback in the General.  It is about proving a point.  When you work to divide people, sometimes it works!

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

    by Snickers77 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:05:47 PM PDT

    •  While you prove your point (0+ / 0-)

      the Supreme Court will become further Scalito-ized and we can kiss the rest of our supposed "freedoms" goodbye.

      Have no fear, this will slip off the page soon.

      •  then you tell me (0+ / 0-)

        How am I supposed to look at my son, who looks like Barack Obama and explain to him that I voted for the person who used race to divide this country even more.  I want him to grow up in a country where good people are rewarded.  I don't want him to learn that race-baiting wins.  If I reward it this time, more people will do it in the future, and then where does that leave my son?

        "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

        by Snickers77 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:29:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And where does it leave my sons (0+ / 0-)

          if I vote for McCain? Fighting a draft?  And where does it leave the uterus of every girl and woman in this country if Scalia and Alito hold sway on clusters of cells having more rights than already-born people.

          •  then I will (0+ / 0-)

            just hope the congress does its job.  I am sorry, I have thought and thought about this, for my 3-year-old baby, I can't vote for her.

            "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

            by Snickers77 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:47:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Congress hasn't done its job (0+ / 0-)

              properly since Watergate. Now they're spineless and scared. We can blame the Reagan years (Fairness Doctrine), the 1996 FCC regulations, and other heinous GOP acts of intimidation and coercion, including Anthrax and vicious smears.
              I respect your decision to not vote for the remaining Democratic nominee if it's Clinton.  But consider that your three year old has a better chance under a Democratic administration than under a Republican one. Help with school grants and/or loans for starters.
              Hillary isn't my choice either...but I can't vote for John McCain or any other Republican.

          •  Tell your sons (0+ / 0-)

            some of the democrats threw blacks under the bus to "win" at all cost. Thanks to the new Republican Empire, women and minorities have no rights, science is banned from schools and we have to pray for our illnesses to go away. I'm a spiritual person, but I don't buy the Repub version of GOD.

  •  I'm not sure I belong (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    TX Unmuzzled, la urracca

    In the Democratic Party. If Clinton wins, it is clear people like me are not welcome or wanted. Sure, my vote is wanted and my $$ will be wanted. But what Clinton wants is for the left wing of the Party to shut up and go away.

    She's shown to me she hates "San Francisco Democrats". Now that can mean one of two (or both things). She hates people who are critical of US foreign policy (which is clear) and she hates gays (I don't think she does really as long as they are not too vocal).

    What she likes is people who pander to right wing demagogic psuedo-populism.

    Now why should I vote for a candidate who essentially told me this weekend that liberal college professors are not welcome in the Party.

    I'll take my egg head elitist vote and $$ and either stay home or go Green.

    It's one thing to swallow hard after a primary season and vote for someone you don't really like on the basis of party loyalty-quite another to vote for someone who channels Karl Rove and Lee Atwater and has to bash every Democrat who had a brain going all the way back to Adlai Stevenson.

    •  To the Right (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Panda
      When Obama moves toward the center/right--which he DOES do from time to time--it's called "building bridges."  When HRC does the same thing, it's called "betraying the base."  
      •  Judging from her new ad in Pennsylvania (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        TX Unmuzzled

        I think she has moved into Karl Rove country.

      •  It's not about that (0+ / 0-)

        I may not entirely like Obama waffling on the 6 day creation issue (the correct answer is no) though I don't doubt his view was genuine. I don't mind him talking about abstinence. OK-I mind because I think this feeds into memes and moralism I don't care for. And Obama was not my original candidate-my candidate was Feingold (who didn't run), Kucinich who wasn't going to win, or Chris Dodd, or even Mike Gravel and then at a stretch, Biden or Edwards. They didn't make it so I pick Obama and probably not as enthusiastically as many on her.

        What Hillary is doing is not going to the center right-she's pandering to right wing demagogery of the very worst kind. The kind that says people who use critical thinking in politics are "elitist", "out of touch", not "real Americans"...because the only real Americans are people who pander on single issue, emotionalist, knee jerk psuedo issues. And that is what she is doing, while she attacks her entire party.

        That's not moving to the center right for the GE, that's attacking your whole party and accepting the whole GOP frame.

        •  What's in your lunchbucket (0+ / 0-)

          Far from believing the myth of the "bitter elitist limousine liberal," or whatever the going thing is these days, I think ALL voters need to get their heads out of their bibles/asses and certainly start thinking more critically about EVERYTHING and about politics in particular. Look, Obama's in the lead.  For HRC to make a go of it, she has to differentiate herself from him in some tangible way--and since he flanked her on the right on health care, she's left with little choice but to capitalize on what the mainstream media perceives as any/all of his "gaffes."  So she's making herself out to be meat and potatoes to his sushi-on-a-stick, (or whatever) but I'd rather eat meat and potatoes OR sushi-on-a-stick than be forced into another four years of the all-too-familiar steady diet of Wholesome Oats Laced with Poison. You know what I mean. And let us remember, too, the political clock moves very VERY fast; today Obama is sushi-on-a-stick, but tomorrow he might be calling himself (or being called) chicken fried steak.  In fact, I think the right-wingers like to imagine BOTH candidates are something like inedible flowers, but they're wrong, and I'd like all of us to keep that in perspective.
      •  no, not at all. HRC moves right by PANDERING. (0+ / 0-)

        obama invites all to participate and doesn't divide/demonize.  HUGE difference.

        Arianna - when you're right, you're right. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/memo-to-obama-moving-to-t_b_110026.html

        by jj24 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:28:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The party left me too (0+ / 0-)

      but I'll still take the handful of real Democrats and even DINOs over the winger nutjobs any day. We need to get our party back. But I've been saying that for years. Going Green might feel good at the time but think about the Supreme Court. Who would McCain nominate?

      •  How do you (0+ / 0-)

        get the party back if you vot for people who don't represent you.

        "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

        by Snickers77 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:38:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  How do you get it back (0+ / 0-)

          by not participating at all? Or by voting for Republicans?  We still have a LOT of work to do to get our party back but not voting for the remaining Democrat (or DINO) on the ticket isn't an option for me. As far as I'm concerned there's nobody in the race who represents me but for SURE it isn't John McCain.  

          •  I am not saying (0+ / 0-)

            don't participate or vote for republicans.  But how do you get the presidential candidate to do what you want if you will vote for them regardless of what they say or do.  Your vote is your leverage, if you give away your vote, how do you change things?

            "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

            by Snickers77 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:49:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Unfortunately (0+ / 0-)

              we only seem able to change the system from within. The GOP learned a long time ago that local politics are key. We need to flush out the DINOs but not at the expense of the Supreme Court. Now isn't the time to make a point about who is more representative of Democratic values. It just CAN'T be McCain.
              As for getting a presidential candidate to do what I want....I don't think I've ever had that leverage. The only thing I can do is vote to say I prefer Democrats over Republicans.

  •  I'll vote for Hillary, not a cent or minute more (0+ / 0-)

    She can hit up all her rich friends and PACs for money and help to get elected.

    "If there is no sufficient reason for war, the war party will make war on one pretext, then invent another . . . after the war is on." -R.M. LaFollette

    by Spirit of Fighting Bob on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:20:33 PM PDT

  •  I WILL NOT VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Hark

    I cannot make this point strongly enough.  If Obama is not the nominee, I will vote for McCain; I don't share all of McCain's values, but he is a good man.  Hillary is NOT a good woman, even though I share most of her purported values.  She is insincere, disingenuous, fake, phoney, false, trixsy and foolish.

    "The man and the hour have met!" Ladies and gentlemen, the next President of the United States, Barack Obama!

    by PittsburghPete on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:35:42 PM PDT

  •  Only If Hillary takes the high road.... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    BennyToothpick, MoNut, Hark

    Oh Fuck!

    Never Mind. No fucking way am I voting for Clinton. NO. FUCKING. WAY.

  •  We have lost the general election (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    WisCheez

    The media is in the tank for McCain because they "understand him". Hillary will stay until the bitter end. The Indies are going to McCain. We are looking at another 49%-48% loss in the general. McCain it raising money and haven't had to answer any for any of his damaging remarks. As a black person I want to cry sometimes. I understand what Obama is going through. Even when you are winning it still isn't good enough. I don't think Hillary would fight Edwards or Biden the same way. McCain's way of reaching out to blacks is telling us "get a job" and he might "try" to fit in time to address us directly. Bill Clinton has been on the good ole boy tour here in NC. He is doing Obama some serious damage here in the rural areas. I think Obama can win NC if the Clintons would act like the like other Dems.

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