Daily Kos

Who Speaks for Islam? Introduction

Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 02:40:31 PM PDT

Omar has written the introduction on Muslim Matters for a collaborative book-review on one of most important book addressing Muslim opinion. The following is quoted from him.

| Intro | Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 |

We recently posted about the findings of a ground-breaking Gallup Poll regarding what Muslims really think. The findings of this study have been released in a book entitled, Who Speaks for Islam, by John Esposito and Dalia Mogahed.

The Gallup organization was kind enough to advance us a copy of this book to review. I recently finished reading this book, and I must admit I was quite surprised, not necessarily at the findings, but at the objectivity with which the results were presented in a simple and effective manner. Given the usual books found in mainstream bookstore like Borders or Barnes&Noble, this is quite possibly one of the best books in that market, if not the best. Moreover, due to the data found in the book, this is an essential read for Muslims, especially in the Islamophobic post 9/11 environment in which we live.

I would take it so far as to say that every Muslim living in the West needs to read this book. And conversely, every non-Muslim living in the West, who wants to get an objective view of what the Muslim world is REALLY thinking needs to read this book. We will review this book in a 5 part series (one for each chapter of the book) by highlighting some of the findings in the book along with some additional comments.

Introduction

This study is truly one of a kind. It brings to light the actual views of everyday Muslims (i.e. not the crazy people the media hunts down to talk to). The study was conducted between 2001 and 2007 with tens of thousands of hour-long face to face interviews from over 35 'Muslim' nations. The survey sample represents over 90% of the 1.3 billion Muslims in the world with a +/- margin of error of 3%. There is nothing else of its kind out there. So if you want to really find out what Muslims think, then you must read this book and look at its findings. Granted, many may not necessarily agree with some of the opinions given, but what is important to remember is that this represents what the vast majority of Muslims actually do think.

One of the points highlighted in the book is how current attitudes and perceptions about Muslims can actually fuel the fire to breeding extremism. Esposito and Mogahed note that "until and unless decision makers listen directly to the people and gain an accurate understanding of this conflict, extremists on all sides will continue to gain ground."

A couple of the conclusions of the survey may come as shocking to some, for example,

Dream Jobs: When asked to describe their dreams for the future, Muslims don't mention fighting in a jihad, but rather getting a better job.

And,

What Muslims around the world say they least admire about the West is its perceived moral decay and breakdown of traditional values - the same responses given by Americans when posed the same question.

The Introduction to the book concludes with a vital foundation, "Let the data lead the discours

Tags: islam, muslim, gallup, John Esposito, Dalia Mogahed (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 33 comments

  •  Thanks! (4+ / 0-)

    Very timely.

    If you will have a 5-part series, please make sure to have links to all 5 parts in each of them.

    Obama: Ending John McCain's 100-year-War.

    by yaddab on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 03:01:24 PM PDT

  •  you can watch a discussion (6+ / 0-)

    of the book onC-Span BookTV

    Boot out Bushbot Barrett, donate to Jane Dyer SC-03 (vet & union member)

    by sc kitty on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 03:01:45 PM PDT

  •  My family is very eclectic, atheists, Mormons, (6+ / 0-)

    Catholics, Muslims, Protestants. One of the best wedding parties I've been to was when my niece married a Palestinian. He's a hard working man with a loving family and I'm proud that he's my relative.

    The only fly in the ointment is the constant worry about the welfare of relatives in the Israeli occupied territories. It is only spoken of in hushed tones. The family is "bitter", in the sense that many Americans are, about their treatment by settlers and the Israeli Army, but it is not the driving force of their lives.

    IMO, the world would be a better place if the Israelis renounced the settlers and actively sought a peaceful solution to their differences.

    They teach us to believe small lies, so we'll believe big lies later.

    by hideinplainsight on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 03:08:47 PM PDT

  •  Speaking of moral values (0+ / 0-)

    "What Muslims around the world say they least admire about the West is its perceived moral decay and breakdown of traditional values - the same responses given by Americans when posed the same question."

    Funny , but what I least admire about the Middle East is that there seems to be a lack of morals . Hatred (of Jews and all 'infidels') is taught in schools . Women are property or 2nd class citizens at best . Men cannot be trusted around women (presumably because they cannot control themselves) . Murder in the name of religion is OK . I could go on , but do I have too ?

    Writing without thinking first is a 2 edged sword you seem to have turned upon yourself .

    •  Are you talking about settlers? They teach hatred (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      esquimaux, amad, yaddab

      Are you talking about collective punishment?, bulldozing homes? destroying olive fields? assination by missile - often killing women and children? Just askin : )

      They teach us to believe small lies, so we'll believe big lies later.

      by hideinplainsight on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 03:30:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You do have to admit that much of the ME (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        hideinplainsight

        is lacking in the progressive values expressed on this web site. How much culture versus religion plays into the slow progress of adoption of those progressive values is debatable.

        "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government. Always hopeful yet discontent, he knows changes aren't permanent. But change is." -Neil Peart

        by Boisepoet on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 04:35:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Evoloution takes time. People trust friends more (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          yaddab

          than enemies. Sharia law is widely divergent in its interpretation from country to country, region to region, town to town. As the world grows smaller, communication better, personal choices will evolve.

          If you doubt this, look at the history of western religion.

          They teach us to believe small lies, so we'll believe big lies later.

          by hideinplainsight on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 04:46:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's the hope... (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            hideinplainsight

            Of course my opinion is that in order for man to truly advance, current world religions will have to be relegated to the category of mythology, or at least be marginalized enough to not have any political power. Human progress and religion are nearly diametrically opposed.

            "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government. Always hopeful yet discontent, he knows changes aren't permanent. But change is." -Neil Peart

            by Boisepoet on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 04:55:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Enuf blame to go around (0+ / 0-)

        I was speaking generally , but if you wish to get into specifics I think that the conduct of the Israelis is no better than their Muslim neighbors . The prolonged suffering of the Palestinians is indicative of tribal ways endemic in the Middle East . Zionism is no better than Talibanism . People around the world are born free from discrimination and prejudice . Governments and religions enslave people into destructive behaviors . This is the basis of the problems in the Middle East . Once the different peoples of this region stop hating each other peace will enable the all of the people to live up to their potential . I hope I live long enuf to see this .

    •  it doesn't matter what "you" admire (4+ / 0-)

      This isn't about YOU or ME
      this is about what the widespread opinions are. So, your hateful, prejudiced opinions are counted.... but alas in the fringe.

      And that is exactly why we need to ignore people like you.

      •  my comment (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        sc kitty, dirkster42, yaddab

        was aimed at fencerider

        And when I talk about fringe, I am talking about both sides.

        I think what this books does is to remove the subjectivity and "my opinion" or "your opinion" and instead focuses on DATA.

        There is nothing sweeter than data to shut up fenceriders and fringes on the other side.

        •  Salaam. Shalom. Peace. (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          sc kitty, hideinplainsight, yaddab

          Different words. Different cultures. Same meaning.

          Differences are superficial and subjective. The objective truth is that we're all just human beings doing the best we can at any given moment -- and that none of us is perfect.

          Thanks for this posting. People need more of this so they can take off the blinders.

      •  I aplogize for posting before watching the (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        sc kitty, yaddab

        linked interview. Now I have to buy the book! We seem to be very careful of not offending the sensibilities of Christians but have no clue of Muslim sensibilities.

        I think this book will provide valuable insight into a world unfamiliar to most Americans. A bridge that needs to be built between our cultures, religions and peoples.

        Thanks for this diary.

        They teach us to believe small lies, so we'll believe big lies later.

        by hideinplainsight on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 04:37:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Opinions are like ... (0+ / 0-)

        assholes , everybody has one and most of them stink . Truth on the other hand pierces prejudice and ignorance and it often hurts like a slap in the face . The conduct of all parties involved (in the Middle East) is suspect as it relies on hatred and superstition as its foundation . This is refuted by Christianity's Golden Rule (which is a nugget of truth in an otherwise superstitious 'religion'). Every man should treat his fellow man as he would prefer to be treated himself . Stop hating and maybe we can make some progress . If you fail to appreciate the wisdom in that you are just another ignorant , superstitious asshat spouting BS .

    •  When a study describes over 90% of a population.. (0+ / 0-)

      YOU may admire whatever you wish... It would less meaningful than Cheney's expectation of welcoming parades in Iraq or GWB's WMD delusion.

      Facts trump.

      Obama: Ending John McCain's 100-year-War.

      by yaddab on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:53:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We're off on a tangent now , aren't we (0+ / 0-)

        Ok , this has turned to the dastardly behavior of the US government . I have said that there is enuf blame to go around and the current US Administration is not exempt . This , and previous Administrations have unilaterally supported the Zionist regime in Tel Aviv . This is caused by the political machinery of the cold war mentality (and by a Zionist influence in American politics) . I do not support such political BS . But , I also do not support religious motives in any shape or form . Unfortunately , these past 25 years we have seen religion intertwined into politics in the USA . This is wrongheaded due to the truth in the 'Golden Rule' . I will treat you with the same respect that I expect to receive . Do not lie to me and i will reciprocate . Governments do not hold such high standards (unfortunately) .

        BTW , if you can refute my comments with logic I will listen . Spout religious BS at me and I will mock you forever .

  •  Cookie for Gallup (5+ / 0-)

    For undertaking this tremendous study. I am just surprised that it is not getting the press it should for being probably one of the most authoritative book with opinion-polling on this subject. And a book that can build SO many bridges between the Muslim world and the West.

    But perhaps that is why it isn't getting the press? Because once you have factual information, LGF and other Islamophobic websites and the media in general will be out of sexy material ;)

  •  Are jobs a problem in Saudi Arabia? (4+ / 0-)

    That country seems to be the hotbed of extremism. Or is it just the brand of Islam that is being taught there.

    Kind of like what we would see here if the 'Jesus Camp' fundies had their way.

    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government. Always hopeful yet discontent, he knows changes aren't permanent. But change is." -Neil Peart

    by Boisepoet on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 04:05:58 PM PDT

    •  Saudis have their own "brand" of Islam, it is (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      sc kitty, yaddab

      very fundamentalist. Imams are state licensed and religious police vigorously enforce their strict interpretation of the Koran. Lately, the Saudi rulers have been trying to dial back the invective and are revising textbooks and teachings. Some imams have been "fired" for over-zealousness - recruiting fighters for iraq, etc.

      They teach us to believe small lies, so we'll believe big lies later.

      by hideinplainsight on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 04:13:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I know, and what amazes me is we turn a blind (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        sc kitty, hideinplainsight

        eye to what goes on there in the name of oil, while waging a war against 'terrorists' in Iraq.

        "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government. Always hopeful yet discontent, he knows changes aren't permanent. But change is." -Neil Peart

        by Boisepoet on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 04:24:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Age of oil ends in 30 or so years (0+ / 0-)

          What will be the political landscape in the end of the oil age ? This will be interesting and I hope I live long enough to see it . Let me make a prediction (which I hardly ever do) . As the supply of oil ends , ideas for alternative energy are suddenly discovered . Global Corporate enterprise moves on to new adventures to rape the peoples of the Earth . The more things change the more they stay the same . Sad but true .

      •  Political considerations dampening religios ideas (0+ / 0-)

        Now we are reaching into the bowels of the discussion to search for the truth . Politicians in Saudi Arabia have systematically enslaved their populations into sociopathic individuals who propagate their hatred for all 'infidels' . Unfortunately for them , this has become a 2 edged sword that bites both ways as they have become the target of the ultra-fundamentalists' passion for conformity . It is amusing to a person like me to witness the sword returning not to its scabbard but to the thoat of the wielder . Good luck Saudi King in your effort to quell the insurrection you started by your own ignorance . You Sir , are the epitome of 'bad government' .

    •  Actually... (0+ / 0-)

      The official unemployment estimates are around 9%, but most people actually believe it is closer to 20%.

      As for the "brand of Islam" you are talking about being "taught" there, this is based on partial truths. The actual situation is far more nuanced and complicated. Nonetheless, there has been a gradual but active process of moderation, dialogue, and debate going on for the past decade leading to slow but definite improvements in civil rights, freedom of speech, women's rights, fighting xenophobia, and religious moderation. There is still a long way to go, but these are clear and continuing gains produced by liberal-leaning movements in Saudi Arabia and supported by the King (a fact many in the west find difficult to believe).

      Knowing what happens in a country tends to be different than learning about it from the media.

      Obama: Ending John McCain's 100-year-War.

      by yaddab on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:06:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And the opinions in the book (0+ / 0-)

        cover saudi as well. And they are that different from the rest of the Muslims.

      •  My knowledge is a little more than just the media (0+ / 0-)

        having spoke with many (1-2 dozen) people who had lived or been stationed there with the military, (although none recently), and having read more books/blogs than most Americans.

        I still wonder how much is cultural morals that are being enforced under the guise of religion, versus religous morals implemented as political will. The few Muslims I have had a chance to get to know (Jordanians, Pakistanis, Indians) all kinda of shook their heads at the mention of Saudi Arabia and blamed their monarchy for any subversion of rights (they also didn't care for the Saudis being too cozy with the US), but didn't want to acknowledge any possible role the religion or the leaders of it, might play.

        "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government. Always hopeful yet discontent, he knows changes aren't permanent. But change is." -Neil Peart

        by Boisepoet on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:51:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, I lived there for 3 decades (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          JDsg, amad

          There is a situation that people find difficult to grasp. The monarchy is in a bind. On the one hand, they secretly would like to be rid of the religious right that have such great social influence, on the other, their legitimacy hinges on their alliance with the religious right. The king has been walking an extremely fine line for a while now with some degree of success.

          There is within the Arab world a number of conceptions/perceptions about Saudi Arabia. Many that are accurate, and many that are not.

          Obama: Ending John McCain's 100-year-War.

          by yaddab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 09:16:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks for the perspective. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            yaddab

            ..

            "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government. Always hopeful yet discontent, he knows changes aren't permanent. But change is." -Neil Peart

            by Boisepoet on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 09:39:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Difficult to grasp ? (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            yaddab

            Are you living in an alternate universe? There is no good coming from Saudi Arabia as its leaders have resorted to a perverse blend of fascism and religion . The unfortunate citizens there are indoctrinated with an extreme hatred of all 'infidels' . The fact that some Saudis reject this pathological abuse of the citizens is a cause to celebrate . There is indeed hope for mankind and we will not , I hope , see another National Socialist Reich established there . One 'hell bent for leather' leader is enough for 500 years ...let alone a thousand . The parallels of Saudi Arabia and 1937 Germany are already enough to stagger the mind of  any truth seeking individual . Let us not forget exactly where the ideology of 'Jihadism' in its present form originated . Stop hating and maybe we can make some progress .

            •  Alternate universe? (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              JDsg

              What part of "I lived there for 3 decades" did you not understand?

              What in the world are you talking about? Germany 37?
              Are you suggesting that there is a government in Saudi Arabia that has Nazi leanings?
              Could you present an argument that supports this and is based on actual facts?

              Here is the bias-free history:

              Jihadism was influenced and perpetuated by some common ideologies in common folk in Saudi Arabia, but certainly did not originate there. This trend started in the 50s and 60s in Egypt in response to the Nasser-created policy of crushing the Muslim Brotherhood movement. The turning point was when Sayyed Qutb, the leading intellectual of the Brotherhood was on the receiving end of that oppression. Qutb was a powerhouse. Muslim intellectuals world wide held him at the highest esteem, and most continue to (even when they disagree with his political ideology).

              This form of militant ideology started, and actually continues to focus on descent in oppressive and corrupt political environments. It led to the assassination of Sadat. It then grew into something quite monstrous thanks to the inspiration it had from the Islamic Revolution in Iran (no sympathy with Shi'a of Iran, just admiration of their political success) and the successes against the Soviets of the underdog Mujahedin in Afghanistan using guerilla-warfare tactics (and we know who supported them, don't we?).

              Saudi Arabia's entanglement here started when King Faisal gave refuge to escaping Brotherhood members (out of spite of Nasser, not love of the Brotherhood). Their ideology found resonance in some strands of Wahabism common in Saudi Arabia. This was then coupled with the pre-existing xenophobia and deep-seated empathy with the plight of the Afghans (stoked by anti-communist official policies and public discourse). Many young enthusiastic and passionate but mostly gullible men decided to take up arms and join the fight in Afghanistan. Cut to the formation of Al-Qaida.

              Now what really kept their fire lit is that: 1- When these men returned, they were NOT welcome and life was made difficult for them. They were too revolutionary for comfort as far as the government was concerned. They also had a real hard time adjusting to civilian life (a problem that vets everywhere in the world could face). Their ideology started to be officially suppressed. That led them to underground activity. 2-The 1991 war angered them so deeply (not because Kuwait was liberated, but because the American Army had to be stationed in the Arabian Peninsula - a big no no - and the clarity with which the Saudi government was seen to be a puppet to the US government).

              The rest is easy to figure out. Now these are historical facts. No hate here (where did that come from by the way? What did I say that was hateful?)

              I actually recommended your comment because this discussion needs to keep going.

              Obama: Ending John McCain's 100-year-War.

              by yaddab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  A good post (0+ / 0-)

        You are correct in noting the progressive movement in Saudi Arabia . However , you also note the slow progression of modernization . This is caused by the politicos there who wish to maintain the control of the monarchy . Much profit is in this position as the oil flows are increased in value by greed of the futures speculators . Once the oil flow ends what will Saudi Arabia (and the other oil producers) have ? A population of ignorant , superstitious people used to oil royalties ? Lets hope not as this will lead to great strife and loss of life . I am curious as to just how far the monarchy is willing to let freedom of thought flourish . In the end I hope there is a peaceful transition to a representative republic . Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely . This is truth . This is the way of mankind . Like it or not , human nature is not to be discounted without peril .

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