Daily Kos

Don't use stories biased against Bill to support Obama

Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:15:35 AM PDT

One of the things that annoys Obama supporters is how some Clinton backers who previously showed a healthy skepticism for dubious right-wing sources and who previously showed an impressive capability to sniff out bias in a news article have suddenly turned to uncritically quoting sources with an obvious agenda against Obama.

Well, folks, it goes both ways. Time for the Obama backers to stop presenting Clinton bashing as if it were straight news. This extends to unfair criticism of Bill, of which there has been a lot recently.

Now, this is not to say that I don't think Bill has made any mistakes. For a savvy politician, he has been surprisingly tone-deaf at times, most notably comparing Obama's win in SC to that of Jesse Jackson in a seemingly dismissive manner, and more recently reviving the Tuzla story by inaccurately defending his wife's statements. This is also not to say that I particularly appreciate the campaign that Hillary is running (and I presume Bill has some influence over this), and I think a lot of the backlash against the Clintons derives from their own words and actions. However, some stuff is just flat-out unfair, and we should reject it for two reasons: first, because we should discourage this kind of politics and media irresponsibility, in which they seek to fit everything into their manufactured narrative and try to generate controversy, and second, because we should preserve the legacy of the Clinton presidency, which was quite good if not perfect, and of Hillary's Senate career, and not undo past Democratic triumphs because of present anger.

An example, one of many but this one is the most recent: this piece off the Boston Globe website titled "Bill Clinton: Older voters too savvy to fall for Obama." Now, maybe I have an advantage here in that having lived in Boston I know perfectly well to approach anything written by the Globe with a wary attitude. They've done some fine work (notably on the church abuse scandal) but they've also earned a reputation, in my circles at the time anyway, for being careless with facts and sensationalist with reporting. Let's look at the article:

QUAKERTOWN, Pa. -- Older voters gravitate to Hillary Clinton because they're too wise to be fooled by Barack Obama's rhetoric, former president Bill Clinton told Pennsylvania voters today.

Clinton's comments, to a packed high school gym about an hour north of Philadelphia, were one part presidential politics and one part legacy protection.

Woah! Bill slams young voters, campaigns for wife by talking about how great he was. Ok, so it's not a quote, but surely the author wouldn't exaggerate his paraphrase, would he? Reading on, the answer appears to be... sadly, yes:

"I think there is a big reason there's an age difference in a lot of these polls," he said. "Because once you've reached a certain age, you won't sit there and listen to somebody tell you there's really no difference between what happened in the Bush years and the Clinton years; that there's not much difference in how small-town Pennsylvania fared when I was president, and in this decade."

Now, this is a relatively inoffensive statement as far as younger voters go -- it's perfectly reasonable to point out that older voters were more politically aware during the Clinton administration and that those who remember the 1990s fondly would be less drawn to Obama's message of basically starting over. It also fits into Hillary's "experience" message -- he claims she appeals to voters with experience. It is not really fair to twist this into "Bill Clinton slams younger voters, says they're being fooled" (for example) or to construe this as Bill saying younger voters are dumb.

There is an aspect of this statement that can be criticized legitimately, and that is Bill's implication that Obama did, in fact, say that there was "really no difference" for Americans or Pennsylvanians under Clinton and under Bush. That's reading too much into Obama's comment that "You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration..." This is typical of Obama's commentary on the Clinton years -- not positive, but not inaccurate (he's discussing jobs in some small towns, remember) and consistent with his message that it's not enough to elect a Democratic president, we need new players in Washington and a new way of approaching these lingering problems. Now, Obama probably intended an implicit comparison between Clinton and Bush here, or at least he didn't go out of his way to say that Clinton was better than Bush, but technically it is unfair for Bill to say based on this quote that Obama is claiming there's "really no difference" when Obama doesn't quantify the degree to which these small-town jobs were lost under Clinton versus under Bush. So there is a fair point to note, and an interesting topic to investigate -- which areas of the country did well under Clinton, which not so well, and why? Would Obama's proposals really address this? And so on... a substantive discussion!

Instead, we get bickering over trivialities and lazy "reporting" that seeks to manipulate readers. The article gets worse:

Last week, however, Clinton seemed to suggest that older voters might be more absent-minded than wise. Defending Hillary Clinton's faulty recollection of landing under sniper fire during a 1996 humanitarian visit to Bosnia, the former president said of her critics, "When they're 60, they'll forget something when they're tired at 11 o'clock at night, too."

Right, because Bill's humorous attempt to minimize the fallout from Hillary's undeniable exaggeration of the dangers she faced was somehow a slam at older voters. Give me a break. He's an older voter himself, as is Hillary. Heck, if I wanted to paint him in the best possible light, I'd say he's also attacking McCain here -- trying to get voters to think something like "Sure, Hillary messes up an anecdote now and then, that happens as you get older. Of course, she's a decade younger than McCain, who can't keep Shiite and Sunni straight..."

Various explanations have been advanced for Bill's supposed sudden slip in his ability to charm, covering a range of tin-foilness, from him suffering from side effects of surgery to him attempting to sabotage Hillary's run so she doesn't eclipse him. The most obvious explanation is that the media is advancing a narrative that is none too flattering to Bill, whereas before they overstated his charisma. He probably has dropped a bit in effectiveness, that's only natural since he hasn't actively campaigned for a long time and of course he has aged somewhat, but my impression is that most of what appears to be a dramatic difference in Bill is due to media framing.

We need to be critical consumers and make sure our criticism is on target, and not just playing into the narrative they're trying to sell.

Tags: Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, media (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 39 comments

  •  Hopefully after Obama claims the nomination (8+ / 0-)

    the Clintons will go all-out to help him win.

    Because they've certainly made it more difficult for him in November so far.

  •  It would be great if critical (8+ / 0-)

    thinking made a comeback.

    "Though the Mills of the Gods grind slowly,Yet they grind exceeding small."

    by Owllwoman on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:21:12 AM PDT

  •  I'm a young voter (15+ / 0-)

    But I'm old enough to remember the Clintons losing the House/Senate, then Bill allowing his destructive behavior to turn his final 2 years into a joke. Oh and then they pardoned a bunch of folks and we couldn't figure out why or even defend him.

    LOOK IT! I WROTE A COMMENT ON BIG ORANGE SEXY TIME!!!!

    by Mark Warner is God on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:23:23 AM PDT

    •  I was also disappointed and felt let-down (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      subprime

      by some aspects of Clinton's term.

      But that was partially because I thought he had the potential to be an amazing President. Smart, hard-working, charismatic.

      The Clinton years were still good, even if the party didn't grow. I just would have liked to see great.

    •  ergo, citing WorldNetDaily is Ok. (0+ / 0-)

      Is that your position?  Or was your comment just off-topic?

    •  I was a younger voter when Clinton first (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      myboo

      ran and although I supported another candidate, he managed to make me believe in him.  Which as it happens is why neither Obama nor Clinton particularly float my boat now.

      But I am appalled at the destruction of the Clintons I am seeing because while I thought they sucked on a lot of levels (excluding the blow job - I lay that on the GOP's doorstep because they all get them too), I still KNOW that they are better than what the other side is offering now.

      I am also appalled at the fact that I am finding that Obama's post partisan message and this fucking primary's focus on "personality" rather than issues is now helping John McCain based on my casual survey's of my own little focus group of folks that I like to talk to to get a feel for what non-junkies are thinking.  I have a young voter friend who told me last night that "all three candidates will be a vast improvement over Bush".  I said, "McCain?!"  She said, "Yes."  I said, "Do you know anything about him?"  I went on to list Iran, choice, Katrina, nastiness, and what a fake McCain really is.  I then explained that while Obama and Clinton are no great shakes, they are the ONLY two that should be considered a "vast improvement" if for nothing else than the fact that those two are actually serious about governing this country and more interested in preserving our democratic system.  She knew NONE of those things about McCain.

      So if you want to snipe at the Clintons, that is fine, but frankly there are going to be consequences that will spill over to Obama and they may end up helping us Democrats snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again - all because people were so obsessed with Clinton (who is LOSIN by the way) and completely lax in criticizing John McCain who is the one who really deserves the wrath as the newly anointed "leader of the Republican Party" - of course we can't be mean to Republicans because we are being "post partisan" - ugh - another fucked up viscious cycle created by leading Democrats and their confusing and screwed up "Post-Partisan-Third-Way" bullshit.

  •  Well said (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    burrow owl, brendanm98, myboo

    I am 26 years old but I remember Bill fondly -- I thought I was young. Even met him five years ago in Oxford. It has saddened me that this year has been a blight on his reputation, but I am sure he will recover. Former Presidents are accorded so much respect in general that when he wants to redeem himself it will be easy. Until then, yeah, I'd prefer it if people treated his comments rationally. But that might be asking a bit much.

    One can't spell MEAT without EAT and ME.

    by leberquesgue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:26:07 AM PDT

  •  Pre-Iowa and yesterday, was mentioned how "ego (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Morgan Sandlin

    driven" a tone his speeches were taking, and part of the meme from Boston was how much of the talk was about HIM.

    Can't have it both ways, talk talk talk about the past, then have it translate to "the future".

    Hey, he promised phone bills would be $10 back in '96.

  •  The truth (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    missliberties, ratador

    is the Clinton scandals and the resulting fatigue kept this country from electing Al Gore.

    •  I wonder if Gore overestimated that fatigue (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SingularExistence

      Clinton left office pretty popular. Arguably he should have been used more to help Gore.

      The scandals unfortunately shifted the focus from important matters to his personal failings, but plenty of people still remember the 1990s fondly.

    •  Nah (0+ / 0-)

      Gore was just a bad politician and Bush ran a great campaign, whatever you think of him personally.

      Gore made strategic boneheaded mistakes, like running on the Bob Shrum populist message and keeping Bill Clinton underwraps while running away from their 8 year record.  Gore blew what should have been a lay up.

      "Capitalism is the only system that can make freedom, individuality, and the pursuit of values possible in practice." - Ayn Rand

      by headhunt23 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:36:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This diary raises an important issue (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    amanuensis

    Is it legitimate to attack the opponents using the same kind of tactics that they and the MSM use against us? Mind you, what the diarist said about Bill could also be said about McCain.

    I personally think we shouldn't, but is this a winning strategy?

    If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

    by Fairy Tale on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:30:43 AM PDT

    •  My take is that it is perfectly valid (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Fairy Tale

      to draw a contrast between "fresh new change" and "same old politics" or to talk about how McCain is "out of touch" with America or "hasn't been able to adapt" to the changing situation in Iraq, or anything else that reinforces "McCain = old" in the mind of the voter.

      I think any direct attacks along the lines of "McCain can't even remember what he said last Tuesday" would backfire.

      Not exactly responsive to your question, sorry, but that's my rambling answer.

      •  I agree (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        burrow owl, brendanm98

        Making him look stupid or old would backfire. I want to raise a note of caution in reminding people that similar arguments didn't work well against Bush, no matter how justified they were.

        If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

        by Fairy Tale on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:53:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  IMHO the old thing would work, but (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          brendanm98

          only on pain of using an argument that runs counter to liberals' anti-discrimination platform (unless they drop ageism from the canon of -isms, which I wouldn't mind seeing)

          •  That's an interesting point, because (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            burrow owl

            there are some valid reasons to discriminate on the basis of age for certain jobs (the military does, for example) in a way that is never legitimate for other -isms.

            Heck, the Presidency already has a minimum age requirement. In theory there's no reason there shouldn't be a limit at the upper end too, and I certainly don't think it's discriminatory in the same way as sexism or racism.

            But I don't think talking about this so openly would play well electorally. I could definitely be wrong, but that's my impression.

    •  Talking w/o notes, off the cuff,makes a pol prone (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      burrow owl, Fairy Tale

      to error.  McCain is a droner, my friends, on and on, trying to get all the same points in there, no matter what the order.

      Bill tries to be "up to the minute", with voter analysis.  

      Obama has more of the college lecturer tone when he does it, where the "point" remains the same, but he can approach it from different pov's.

  •  Bill Called Everyone Not Voting For His Wife A (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    amanuensis, elmo, Morgan Sandlin, cachola

    Fool. Now that might not have been his words or even his intention but thats the only inference you can take from his comments.

    If he doesnt want to be scrutinized he can always find the emergency door labeled "EXIT"

    McCain/(Hagee+Parsley) '08 "We Hunt Jews and Muslims So You Dont Have To. Straight Talk"

    by DFutureIsNow on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:37:03 AM PDT

  •  The post-surgery thing may not be so much tinfoil (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    hyperstation, Catte Nappe, brendanm98

    I had bariatric bypass surgery for weight loss myself eight years ago.  Although the results have been great poundage-wise, I have noticed in myself a tendency to be more irritable and easily ticked-off at trivial things.  It's hard for me to say this is any more due to the surgery than it is simply due to aging in general and having to cope with other problems, but it definitely was not something covered as a potential side-effect of the surgery during the many pre-surgery seminars I attended.

    That said, however, a person of Bill Clinton's position and resources should have had little difficulty in obtaining some sort of therapy or treatment for those symptoms, if indeed they were present and noticed.  Otherwise, some of his actions on the campaign trail have been execrable, and I would say out of character for him.

    Why, exactly, this is the case of course I cannot say.  But it may be the case that the surgery had something to do with it.

    As one who's been through that surgery, my personal anecdotal evidence is that I have become more tempermental since, but whether there's any cause-and-effect relationship I admit I do not know.

    If we're not willing to boldly refute the lies, the lies will stand as truth. (-6.75, -6.72)

    by cn4st4datrees on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:38:50 AM PDT

  •  I hate autopsies! (0+ / 0-)

    I'll hold my breath waiting for the Clinton's to 'jump' in and help Barack.  Hell, the way Bill's been campaigning, he needs to be sent off on another speaking tour to human rights abusive groups in Indonesia.

    Obama/Dean 08 Strong unions for a strong America

    by realwischeese on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:44:33 AM PDT

  •  I honestly don't get the pt here (0+ / 0-)

    Apparently you don't like the globe, but I don't see anything wrong with how they report these pieces of information.

    sorry.

  •  Clintons go scorched earth and you want rules? (0+ / 0-)

    •  Yep (0+ / 0-)

      Because whoever you support gets and will get unfairly portrayed by the media too, and because Obama's campaign demonstrates that (mostly) taking the high road can be effective in politics.

      Mostly what I want are not rules so much as actual analysis. Reporters are good at comparing (past statements versus present, Dems said X but GOP said Y)  but often not so good at providing insight (well, which statement was accurate, the past or the present one? which is more correct, X or Y?). More substance, less narrative-driven fluff.

    •  Or: "I love me some truthiness!" (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      brendanm98

      Seems to me being honest is a good, independent of whether it's useful.

  •  Bill is a running joke (0+ / 0-)

    with a really sad punch line. Just like his wife, Annie Oakly dodging sniper fire from banded ducks.

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