Daily Kos

Hillary's "Umbrella" Recklessly Leads To WAR with Iran

Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:48:29 AM PDT

In no Uncertain Terms, Hillary Clinton, during the ABC Debate, Laid out a Roadmap to Certain Nuclear War with Iran!

Keith Olberman covered this last night in a Segment on Countdown

From Liberty Youth who had a earlier diary on this:

What Clinton is proposing is a very ambitious and a major security and political shift in the Middle East. Essentially, she is proposing a AGTO (Arabian Gulf Treaty Organization). This is the New Cold War with Iran as the central enemy. I cannot believe that Iran would be willingly isolated in the way that Senator Clinton is proposing. Russia and China would more than likely be interested in offsetting the U.S. influence that this Gulf Alliance would create. If you think that the current atmosphere is tense the proposal that Clinton is advancing would be a step up.

Again Liberty Youth on the Spot with a Rough Transcript of the Answer Unnoticed by ABC's Moderators.

SENATOR CLINTON: Well, in fact, George, I think that we should be looking to create an umbrella of deterrence that goes much further than just Israel. Of course I would make it clear to the Iranians that an attack on Israel would incur massive retaliation from the United States, but I would do the same with other countries in the region.

And I think that this is an opportunity, with skillful diplomacy, for the United States, to go to the region and enlist the region in a security agreement vis-a-vis Iran.

...we've got to deter other countries from feeling that they have to acquire nuclear weapons. You can't go to the Saudis or the Kuwaitis or UAE and others who have a legitimate concern about Iran and say: Well, don't acquire these weapons to defend yourself unless you're also willing to say we will provide a deterrent backup and we will let the Iranians know that. Yes, an attack on Israel would trigger massive retaliation, but so would an attack on those countries that are willing to go under this security umbrella and forswear their own nuclear ambitions.

Steven R finds some reporting on the Matter.  

ABC's Jake Tapper goes through some back story

Jim Hoagland's original idea on this matter from the WaPost where he Proposed it Originally

"The United States should also be prepared to extend guarantees of territorial security for Arab states in the Gulf region. Bush should announce that he wants consultations with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt, Jordan and other Arab states -- as well as principal U.S. allies in Europe -- on extending a U.S. or NATO nuclear umbrella over friendly states in the Gulf. This would be a direct defensive response to Iran's destructive drive for a nuclear program that can produce atomic weapons. U.S. guarantees would enable Arab states to forgo developing their own nuclear arsenals, just as the U.S.-Japan bilateral security treaty is intended to keep Japan nuclear-free."

Jim Hoagland

Hoagland is also known for notably having backed the later disgraced Ahmad Chalabi of the Iraqi National Congress as an asset in the U.S. war in Iraq.

What's amazing is that Tapper finds a former Reagan Aid to really lay into this story.  As Racheal Maddow said as well on Countdown, Pat Buchanan was out quick all over this boneheaded idea, and to roughly quote Rachel, sometimes Pat turns to the Right so far, he's on her left when she turns.

One former Reagan Aid calls the idea "reckless"

Doug Bandow, a former special assistant to President Reagan, says this proposal is a dangerous one.

"It’s one thing to promise to respond to a nuclear attack by a potential global hegemon, the Soviet Union, against a major ally, such as Germany or Japan, especially when Washington has deliberately disarmed them," he wrote last year in The National Interest. "Very different is to promise to protect Jordan or Kuwait, friendly countries, true, but neither historic nor important allies, against an attack by Iran, a regional power without global reach. The latter is an extraordinary extension of a doctrine fraught with danger."

That's because, he wrote, such an umbrella "makes conflict more likely in other ways. First, if the U.S. commitment is not credible, there is no deterrent effect. ...Second, if war erupts, U.S. involvement (assuming America makes good on its promise) is automatic. Washington loses the ability to weigh costs and benefits in the particular case at the particular time..."

Eugene Robinson touched on this story

This strikes me as the kind of big, complicated idea that someone should have asked Clinton to explain further. That didn't happen, though.

In the looking-glass world of nuclear weapons theory, a U.S. pledge to nuke Iran if it ever nuked Israel could make officials in both countries breathe easier. One potential benefit would be to lessen the possibility that Israeli leaders, fearing an Iranian attack that might eliminate Israel's ability to retaliate, would order a preemptive strike.

But is it wise to specify America's reaction to a threat that does not yet exist? Iran, after all, is years away from being able to build, let alone deploy, a nuclear bomb. What impact would such a U.S. declaration have on diplomatic attempts -- which Clinton says she will make -- to engage Iran in productive negotiations? And wouldn't Clinton's proposal just further George W. Bush's policy of deepening the fault lines in the Middle East, rather than trying to bridge them?

Steven R again supposes some Implications

This reveals many things:

1- Hillary Clinton buys the "war on Iran" line and as President, may lead us down such a road, slower than Cheney, but ultimately potentially much more dangerous as choice will be removed from the President's Power.

2- Hillary Clinton is playing to Out-Hawk John McCain; meaning, there is zero credibility to her claim that she's interested in getting out of Iraq... I mean, where on heavens would we store the troops/missles/tanks/guns/nukes necessary to immediately retaliate to an Iranian agression?  why... on those Iraqi Bases of Course.

3- Hillary Clinton has a base level misunderstanding of US Foreign Policy Reach and Ability.  Our Military is sadly in no position to engage in such an effort today, even if it were a priority, without significant investments which would consume money she claims she's interested in using to subsidize Health Care and Green Collar Jobs

4- Hillary Clinton is more interested in Oil than Energy Independence and likely fails to grasp the fundamental purpose of said Independence (so we can get out of the ME). The Money needed to maintain a ME Strike Force would surely be enough to pave the west with Solar Panels, upgrade our Grid, and put a Hybrid Plug In SUV made in the USA in every home within a Decade

5- Hillary Clinton is in the Pocket of Dubai.  This has Ron Burkle/Dubai written all over it.

I would add #6:  We Cannot, As Peace Loving Democrats, Afford to have Hillary Clinton Elected President.

Make some Calls to Pennsylvania today and Avoid this Future

Be sure to show Liberty Youth and  Steven R some Mojo Friday Love.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Iran, Umbrella of Deterance (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 26 comments

  •  Recommendations Thanks! (12+ / 0-)

    Before you say anything, know I'm soon to be "Hope Reborn"... be on the look out ;)

    by Billary Redux on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:50:28 AM PDT

    •  Change your sexist wingnut logon... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Same As It Ever Was

      ...and I would be happy to recommend this and many other diaries you have written.  But as things stand, a rec of this diary would be a reward for spreading Limbaughesque bilge.

      McCain: Running for Hoover's 21st term

      by Finck II on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 07:15:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yup. (0+ / 0-)

        I canm't in good conscience recommend anything by this diarist with this UID.  This is an importatnt story though.  One largely missed by both the MSM and the Obama campaign.  We finally have a profound, substantive policy difference and one which establishes Clinton's unsuitability for office IMO.

        We are the ones we've been waiting for.

        by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 07:37:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Diary #4... Maybe this time people will Recommend (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    zic, geejay, Quicksilver2723, Abie
  •  rolling the dice one more time (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    zic, Quicksilver2723, Abie

    to see if someone will pay attention to the warmonger in our midst!

    Thanks for the diary. Tipped and recc'd

    "I ain't so afraid of losing something that I ain't gonna try to have it." Zoe (Firefly)

    by geejay on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:55:58 AM PDT

  •  does this topic bore people or something? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    bumblebums

  •  rec'd. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Quicksilver2723, redtex, Abie

    My sweetie just asked me why this wasn't the front page story across America yesterday.

    Google it, it's getting some attention in foreign news.

    Thanks.

    "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

    by zic on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:59:04 AM PDT

  •  Less then 1 minute apart (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Quicklund, Quicksilver2723, Abie

    I just posted Clinton & Cheney's fondest pipe dream

    Saying this & more:

    Then I saw this segment on Olbermann's Countdown featuring Rachel Maddows.

    Ms.Maddow wondered; "Why would something like this advance American interests?" Later stating; "This is a huge reorientation of America's foreign policy and America's role in the world."

    Also, this "policy" is applicable beyond the scope of nuclear weapons. It is, in effect, proposing a NATO-esque vision for the Middle East. Now, how do you think Iran, Russia, India and China feels about that? Is this not a policy extension of Bush/Cheney's arrogance?

  •  Her promises to find solutions (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Quicklund, Quicksilver2723, Abie

    for domestic problems like health care are meaningless if she really wants to start a new Cold War middle - east style (let alone a hot one).  I can't believe this isn't getting more attention.

    Loudest the river, fewest the fish.

    by houyhnhnm on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 07:02:47 AM PDT

  •   HRC's tactic = Republican talking points. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Quicksilver2723, Abie

    She is truly showing her corporate leanings now.

    I think mosters everywhere should rightly feel insulted.

    St. Ronnie was an asshole.

    by manwithnoname on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 07:02:49 AM PDT

  •  She's got foot-in-mouth disease (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    chap, Quicklund, geejay, Quicksilver2723

    Just unbelievable.  She's to the right of Dubya and Cheney on Iran.  Honestly, not even McCain is proposing anything so ludicruous.

    Without Dubya's great Iraqi adventure, Iran would have no say today in the region, and whatever power or influence it now enjoys can be directly attributable to the Iraqi mess. Liberal Youth's observation is key

    What Clinton is proposing is a very ambitious and a major security and political shift in the Middle East. Essentially, she is proposing a AGTO (Arabian Gulf Treaty Organization). This is the New Cold War with Iran as the central enemy. I cannot believe that Iran would be willingly isolated in the way that Senator Clinton is proposing. Russia and China would more than likely be interested in offsetting the U.S. influence that this Gulf Alliance would create. If you think that the current atmosphere is tense the proposal that Clinton is advancing would be a step up.

    All of the instability in the region (and a good part of the price of oil today) results from the Sunni-Shiite divide, and what she proposes is fanning the flames of dissenion.

    Steven R is right. She's a f**king amateur, and a dangerous one at that.

    Great diary Redux.  We all appreciate you tying in other good diaries on this issue.

    •  Foot-in-mouth certainly (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Meteor Blades, Quicksilver2723, Abie

      But do not delude yourself that Iran owes its status as a substantial regional power soley to Mister Bush's War.  Iran is made a considerable power by several factors that are entirely Iranian in nature.

      * Geography.  Iran's location gives her the ability to sink shipping in the Strait of Hormuz during times of war.  This is a powerful strategic deterrent to a world (not just America)dependant upon safe transit of oil through that channel.

      * Population.  Iran has a very large population as compared to the other Middle East countries.  That allows for a large army.  More importantly, the population is relatively young and educated.  

      * Industry.  Thanks to her population, Iran is a relatively advanced technological nation.  This also makes her quite unlike all the Arab nation of the Middle East.  Iran is one of but a scant handful or countries able to build their own tanks, artillery, jet combat aircraft and missiles.  Embargoes of military equipment might deprive Iran of certain specific items, but will not deprive Iran of the ability to arm her own forces with modern gear.

      * Resources.  Iran sits atop large oil reserves.  Modern warfare requires access to lavish fuels supplies.  Iran's self-sufficiency here means her military cannot be immobilized by means of blockade.

      No, Iran is the region's 800lb gorilla for reasons very much to do with Iranian long-term planning and drive, with a huge leg-up thanks to her favorable geography and oil reserves.

      Atop all this, yes, Mister Bush's War plays right into Iranian strengths. MB'sW will go down as one of the all-time strategic mistakes in the history books.

      •  But for all of its strengths (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Quicklund, Quicksilver2723

        it would not have the political clout in the region it now enjoys but for Dubya's great Iraqi adventure.

        Prior to the Iraqi war, no one in the Gulf felt threatened by Iran as they now do.  Post war, we have Shiite influence running from Iran, through Iraq, Syria, and into Lebanon.  The dots have been connected.

        Americans think the Sunni Shiite issue is similar to differences between protestants and catholics, but its much more dramatic.  E.g., only in Iraq, during Saddam's rule, were marriages beteeen the sects considered normal.  Everywhere else it's practically non-existent.  

        Creating a NATO-styled organization with a club of Sunni states places America on one side of this war against the Shiite, and for what?  It's crazy.  It's fringe....

        We've had a bi-partisan panel look at these issues, and they recommended dialogue, not taking sides.  Defusing the crisis requires an honest dialogue with the Iranians, similar to our rapprochment with Viet Nam. On the table should be Iraq, nuclear weapons, and regional issues.  

        •  We agree (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Meteor Blades, Quicksilver2723, Abie

          I was countering your earlier statement which went a bit too far.  Iran has always had considerable influence and outright power in the region. That was true while Saddam was still in power. The Sunni regeimes in the region have always been fearful of the Iranian threat.  

          A case could be made that Saddam stayedin power as long as he did, partially because his Sunni neighbors wanted Saddam's army standing between them and the Iranians. That happy situation gave them minimal reason to meddle in internal Iraqi politics.

          But there is no doubt but that our invasion of Iraq played righ into Iran's hands.  They now have many more powerful cards to play.

          And yes the idea of a sort of regional NATO is very much the sort of thing that should have been debated at the [cough] debate.  It seems, on its surface, a entirely unworkable, ill-thought-through idea.

          •  should also mention... (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Quicklund, Abie

            ..the ongoing rivalry of Iran and Saudi Arabia who frequently have disputes over territories.

            I peg Clintons as pro-Saudi along with the bush gang for reasons that fall outside of fighting terrorism -- the Sauds' continuing control over OPEC production/pricing.

            Anything that undermines their financial leverage such as Iran and Iraq's switching from the US dollar fiat to Euro or yen qualifies as terrorism to Bushies and Clintons.

            Iran was the first, if I recall correctly, to use oil as a stick against our policies in the Middle East.  And that was done by our western friend, the Shah.

            We really must move away from our oil/war-based economy quickly.  Our military seems to be fighting multiple proxy wars for $heiks these days -- at least, that's how it appears to me.

            It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. Alfred Adler

            by Quicksilver2723 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:09:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Pay off on promises (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Quicksilver2723

     Check the amount of Middle East millions poured into Bill Clinton's Foundation and Library. They've been bought...which would mean that our government would have to pay for that umbrella.

    McCain's daily Gaffe is a laugh a day.

    by redtex on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 07:32:52 AM PDT

  •  KO Say Hillary More Bolder Than Bush. I Was Like (4+ / 0-)

    He is right, not even George Bush has gone as far.

    McCain/(Hagee+Parsley) '08 "We Hunt Jews and Muslims So You Dont Have To. Straight Talk"

    by DFutureIsNow on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 07:38:09 AM PDT

  •  Amazed that this gaffe is not front paged (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Quicksilver2723, Abie

    on every progressive blog in the country.

  •  One big fat steaming detail overlooked (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Spoc42, Quicksilver2723, Abie

    Yes, an attack on Israel would trigger massive retaliation, but so would an attack on those countries that are willing to go under this security umbrella and forswear their own nuclear ambitions.

    This 'umbrella' has no chance of coming to be if every nation must "forswear their own nuclear ambitions."  Israel already own nuclear weapons.  They could not, by Sen Clinton's definition, join the 'umbrella'.

    Or if nuclear-armed Israel was allowed to join the 'umbrella', while at the same time all Arab nations were forbidden to pursue the same weapons, then no Arab nation will join. I am no expert but I am pretty sure teh Arab naions are looking for signs that America is willing to deal with Arabs and Israelis both on a level playing field.  Institutionalizing the Arab nations as second-class nuclear have-nots is not likely to persuade Arab leaders of American fairindedness.

    This inherent flaw strikes me as making the entire proposal stillborn.  So in one sense I am not overly worried that we will ever see this proposal turn into reality.  OTOH, it makes for an excelent path for Sen Obama to attack Sen Clinton on the issues.  So brainstorming on the proposal weaknesses is effort that shall not go to waste.

    There is no doubt but that such a proposal is as revolutionary to American policy as was the so-called and already-abandoned "Bush Doctrine".  There is no doubt but that this point deserved follow-up questionng from the ABC moderators.  If network anchors were chosen on a basis of mental accuity we might have even heard such questions.

  •  Rove & Cheney Hugged Each Other In Tears They (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Quicksilver2723, Abie

    Couldnt believe Hillary would carry their legacy of more useless war, death & destruction in the middle east.

    McCain/(Hagee+Parsley) '08 "We Hunt Jews and Muslims So You Dont Have To. Straight Talk"

    by DFutureIsNow on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 07:45:31 AM PDT

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