Daily Kos

A Very Long Campaign

Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:07:43 PM PDT

For someone who increasingly finds himself sitting on the fence about whether to vote for Barack Obama in the general election or to simply call it quits on my lifelong relationship with the Democrat Party, the huge flap Obamacrats have made over Wednesday's debate has pretty near pushed me over the edge. In response to Obama's rather lackluster performance they've viciously rounded on the people asking the questions, consigning them to an ever-expanding purgatory for those who pose any doubts about Obama's righteous claim to the throne. Not that Obama's debate performance has ever been particularly stellar, as he comes off to me as a bit of an over-intellectualized lawyer-geek except when he's giving speeches. (Don't mention this to a true-believer however, as you will be roundly attacked as a reactionary.)

During this campaign I've watched with increasing dismay as self-identified 'progressives' exhibit more and more of their darkest side, rivaling the demagoguery I'd previously associated mostly with ditto-heads on the far right. Faced with two candidates who differ very little on issues or policies the campaign has become almost entirely about personality and 'electibility.' If I were to characterize the personality of the Obama campaign it would be on a scale that gravitates between whiner and bully. If I were to characterize their attitude toward any American or group of Americans who oppose or question the absolute correctness of their vision, it would be with one word, arrogance. If I were to characterize their style it could be simply summed up as ridicule.

The political dialogue on the left has shifted from self-criticism and analysis to the hysterical echo chamber where Keith Olbermann mirrors Rush Limbaugh and the Huffington Post mirrors the Drudge Report, while the Daily KOS descends into adolescent posturing.  I guess this sort of balance of extremes was inevitable, but it hardly makes up for the loss of rational conversation that's been buried beneath accusatory mudslinging. As I pull back in dismay it's as if a filter is removed from my eyes and I look at the group with whom I've always identified and increasingly see a variety of political animal that is all too wiling to run in herds and all too easily impressed by the buzz-o-the-moment. I see unity replaced by factionalism with little attempt to explore common ground or even to respect one's opponents. The questions that occur to me is whether I'll be placed on a list of the politically untouchable and when I'll be purged from the ranks of the politically correct? These are the people I wanted to see in power?

If Obama's performance and the debate aftermath is any measure, it appears more and more that the Democrats are once again ready to select the candidate least likely to succeed, placing themselves firmly in the position of 'deer in the headlights' as they squabble in the face of an upcoming fall election. Tragically, if not inconsistently, they've split into dueling factions between those in the center and those on the extremes. The winner will be determined by who shouts loudest and is most favored by the media. So-called 'progressive' Democrats are so wrapped up in self-righteousness and anti-Clinton passion while liberals are so concerned about offending their base that all appear incapable of seeing the truck coming at them from the other side. They are both unlikely to look up until it's a bit too late.

If Obama is nominated this will be a very long campaign indeed, as we will have to listen to a constant chorus of whining and complaining which occurs every time he's confronted or criticized. The question is how long it will take for Americans and for the media to get fed up with this juvenile bitching. At which point, for me the Ralph Nader candidacy becomes more and more attractive.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Debate, Media (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 51 comments

  •  Obama's "righteous claim to the throne?" (5+ / 0-)

    Pardon dear elders if I "jumped" a tip jar that he surely will not place here anyway.

    Try as you might, you cannot spell HOPE with the letters GOP.

    by David Kroning on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:10:06 PM PDT

  •  I agree with you (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Kim from Pgh PA, followyourbliss

    I can't wait until this is all over and Obama is our president.

  •  there are two issues here (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SottoVoce, Kim from Pgh PA
    1. Obama's performance : yes, I agree it was lackluster. He didn't do very well.  Granted.
    1. The questions which were asked and the tone of the debate: this is not candidate-specific.  Even the questions which were asked of Clinton were pathetic.

    You can think Obama did a bad job (I certainly thought so) and still be outraged by that pathetic excuse for a presidential debate.

    Why aren't you outraged by it?  This is seriously OK with you, that the sideshow should be featured so prominently in that kind of venue?

  •  candidate least likely to succeed was Gravel (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    toys, palantir, The Distillery

    of the final four standing, it would clearly be Clinton, even though I think she might well win, because she starts with such huge negatives that some Republicans who might otherwise stay home would turn out merely to vote AGAINST her rather than for McCain

    and what has made this campaign already interminable is the insistence of the Clintons that somehow they are entitled to another spin on top of the ticket even though the voters have made clear they are not interested in seeing that happen.

    do we still have a Republic and a Constitution if our elected officials will not stand up for them on our behalf?

    by teacherken on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:12:37 PM PDT

  •  When is a campaign (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DelicateMonster, toys

    in the United States of Amnesia NOT about "personality" and "electability"?

    As a country our discussion of issues and understanding of our position in the world is the jokey man-on-the-street interview you seen Leno doing that demonstrates that most Americans know more about the intimate details of the lives of Branjelina than about the million people we've helped kill since 2003...

  •  the debate format is contrived (3+ / 0-)

    Yes, Clinton is a better formal debater than Obama.  But, we're voting for President of the US, not the Debater of the United States.  

    Last time I checked, presidents make foreign policy decisions through negotiations, not through debates.  

    Last time I checked, presidents give "state of the union" addresses, not "state of the union debates."

    Just because you were the debate champion in high school doesn't make you necessarily qualified to be the best President.  

  •  Don't Leave (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SottoVoce

    I know there are A LOT of people saying the same thing in the "real world" (aka, off-line). But the thing is simple: does the Democratic Party stand up for people like you?

    They do for me.

    I work my ass off and get paid way too little. I can't afford healthcare. I can't afford to finish college.

    There is no other political party out there willing to address the issues that matter to ME. So regardless of how you feel about the Presidential nominee (we've had some horrible ones too), the issues that they fight for are still worth fighting for. Please don't leave!

    http://anidealiveson.com/

    by fnpople2008 on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:15:28 PM PDT

  •  Any one who refers to the Democratic party (4+ / 0-)

    as the "Democrat" party is no Democrat.  

  •  Did anyone even know about Obama's link to Ayers? (0+ / 0-)

    I didn't, and I'm a supporter.

    •  I knew (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      followyourbliss, The Distillery

      although 'link' is a bit of an overstatement.

      The Ayers thing has been all the rage in the right-wing echo chamber.

      •  I diaried it and was shouted down - - (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        bethrsingleton

        Which is the problem - - rather than figure out a response, people just call each other names.  If you don't hash things out when your friends ask about things, you haven o anbswer when your enemies raise the issue later.  Dumb strategy.

        John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

        by Barry in MIA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:35:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Barry, they shout everything down you write... (0+ / 0-)

          Not because you don't make some good points, but because you fill every diary with vengence.

          Try as you might, you cannot spell HOPE with the letters GOP.

          by David Kroning on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:37:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Youre a good guy but that's BS - - (0+ / 0-)

            I'm snarky but with one of the hate and immaturity and profanity tossed around this site.  I'm just the only near daily pro HRC diarist left on this site, and there's a price to pay for that.  Heck, I got FRONT PAGERS spamming my stuff!   LOL
            But, these folks are seeding their own destruction.  I'll vote Obama if he's the D on the ballot, but I suspect I'll watch McCain get inaugurated.  
            Truth be told - - if Edwards were the front runner, he'd be polling 65% amond D's and 55% against McCain.  For the second time in a row, we've rejected the one who could win hands down.

            John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

            by Barry in MIA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:44:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I read your diary (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          David Kroning

          I don't think your intention was to help Obama.

          The thing is that the Ayers thing is much ado about nothing.  I agree with Obama's general attitude on issues like this which has been to respond forcefully to attacks but not dwell on them when they are obvious attempts at distractions.

          I think a lot of the shouting you got was the community responding forcefully to an obvious attempt at swiftboating.  And that's as it should be, IMO.

          •  No that was not my intention - (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            bethrsingleton

            I wrote it to knock down Obanma.
            But shouldn't one frickin' person have said, hmm, how do we answer that if he's ever asked that in the real world.  Remember, that's one of the purposes of the primary - - to rehearse your game for the finals!  Instead, I hads folks literally defending cop killers because "some cops deserve it" - - like that plays in Peoria!

            John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

            by Barry in MIA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:50:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  ok (0+ / 0-)

              You do have a point.  Perhaps too many people were like me and assumed the campaign folks were on it.

              That said, however, I do think that Obama's response to the Ayers thing was his least clumsy.  

              •  But there is this "how dare you say that !!" (0+ / 0-)

                attitude, where all the effort goes into shooting the messenger rather than shooting down the message.  As I've said repeatedly, there's no troll / hide button in the real world.  You have to rebut stuff you don't like, not just get your cronies to erase it.  

                John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

                by Barry in MIA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:56:08 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  There is value (0+ / 0-)

                  in "how dare you say that".  There are people, and I count myself among them, who think that this kind of shit needs to stop, and the only way it will stop is if:

                  1. People make it socially unacceptable to attempt to distract from real issues by bringing this crap up
                  1. A candidate runs a successful campaign without resorting to that kind of tactic.

                  The messenger should be shot, figuratively speaking.  It's destructive speech and repeating the talking points gives them far more power than they deserve.

                  The eye-roll is the best weapon against this sort of thing if the goal is to eliminate them from the national dialog. The down side is, of course, that the eye-roll is not a very good short term weapon against distraction politics.

                  Thank God we have a smart and capable candidate.

                  •  No the eye roll is the Dukakis / Kerry / Kennedy (0+ / 0-)

                    strategy!  It's the losers' strategy.
                    The people are not too smart to fall for this crap - - - they twice elected a coke sniffing alchie because his favorite philosopher is Jesus, remember?  over a real war hero in 2004?

                    John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

                    by Barry in MIA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:12:28 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Eye-roll as one of many prongs (0+ / 0-)

                      in a multi-pronged strategy is good stuff.  You should be made to feel petty and destructive for bringing up garbage talking points, but at the same time, the Obama campaign responds forcefully to the charges.  Then moves on.

                      This has been working quite well.

                      The difference this last time is that ABC had the gall to make these bullshit issues the center-piece of their 'presidential debate'.

                      Obama was caught with his pants down and didn't respond very well.  Lesson learned, hopefully.

                    •  Also... he was a sitting (0+ / 0-)

                      president and the Iraq war was not yet thought of as a disaster...  and Bush was not yet universally thought of as a liar...  2004 was a LONG time ago, in terms of today's political realities...

                      Kick apart the structures.

                      by ceebee7 on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:04:36 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

        •  I had no idea about it. (0+ / 0-)

          It's amazing how it was kept quiet.

  •  I did not object (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme, The Distillery

    because they attacked Barack.  I objected to the Britany Spearacization of our media.  It is atrocious.  The fourth estate is no longer and we must fight for it to come back.  And, I agree with UpstateDem.  You're a troll and never intended to vote for Hillary or Barack.

    Impeachment! Indictment! Incarceration!

    by followyourbliss on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:20:10 PM PDT

  •  Hm... (5+ / 0-)

    During this campaign I've watched with increasing dismay as self-identified 'progressives' exhibit more and more of their darkest side, rivaling the demagoguery I'd previously associated mostly with ditto-heads on the far right.

    Perhaps you're right. Perhaps we Democrats have been too negative towards one another. Perhaps we should stop the attacks and-

    If I were to characterize the personality of the Obama campaign it would be on a scale that gravitates between whiner and bully.

    Well, so much for that.

  •  lifelong democrat? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Kim from Pgh PA, followyourbliss

    If that is so then I would urge you to re-read your own diary. I think you make the point as to why you should vote for Obama. The bickering is tiring and foolish, whether it be between Hillary and Barack or the media and the bloggers. That's why we all need to take a step back and recommit ourselves to what we want this nation to be and who can take us there. Obama supporters whine because of exactly what the ABC debate was. It was a childish, unimportant display of gossip, rumor, and innuendo. This is why you are tired of the game and the same goes with the people you seem to be attacking. Forgive the Obama faithful when we drop down to the same level in attacks against Clinton, but the passion that is behind the attacks and the defense is very powerful. I would contend that must of us are very level-headed but it is hard to contain the anger that arises when the attacks are misguided and on false pretenses and in return we may do the same. But looking at the big picture, Obama's message is one of unity and further, hope in our government and our nation. I would urge you to read The Audacity of Hope before the GE, and if you disagree feel free to vote for Nader or McCain. Give the "buzz-o-the-moment" a chance, maybe we can really change the things that distress you and us Obama supporters.

  •  Democrat(ic) Party is "deer in headlights." (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    followyourbliss, David Kroning

    It's a good thing HRC is packing a six-shooter.  Oh wait, wrong metaphor...

  •  The Obama campaign is so concerned with (0+ / 0-)

    expanding the base that they're ignoring long time portions of the existing base, on the theory that you ain't going no where.  I'm not, but I know alot of friends / family who will . . . you can't spend 9 months telling people you don't need them, and not expect them to react to that.

    John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

    by Barry in MIA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:38:49 PM PDT

    •  I don't ever (0+ / 0-)

      remember Obama saying that he didn't need anybody.  In fact, I have heard him say that he was going to go into every state and contest everyvote.  I don't remember hearing that on the other side.

      "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

      by Snickers77 on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:40:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've repeatedly been told to get lost, and (0+ / 0-)

        whenever an HRC supporter has left here, it was cheered as a victory.  Do you think they'll come back in July?  I am pretty much the only pro HRC diarist left.  Why's it bother people so if there's one HRC supporter diarying things from a pro HRC perspective?  Rather then try to get people auto banned (which is an urban myth), why not try to ignore pro HRC diaries and try a lil' gentle persuasion?  It's called campaigning.

        John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

        by Barry in MIA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:01:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And see below - (0+ / 0-)

          where's your tip jar!  troll!
          it's like they want him to go to redstate.
          Shouldn't the reaction to this be an attempt to bring people back together?

          John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

          by Barry in MIA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:03:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  How exactly is he ignoring portions of the base? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Kim from Pgh PA

      From my perspective, he hasn't ignored anyway, and has included many, many people that the party has ignored for 15 years.

      •  Proof is in the pudding. (0+ / 0-)

        He's not getting the votes of most folks who voted for McGovern.  Meaning, he's losing among folks 50+.  And, he's losing overall (not totally, but more than not) in the big states that are the core of the democrats' electoral college strategy.  And he won't win Florida, whereas HRC could.  My opinion.  For which I'm sure I'll get HR'ed, proving the author's point.

        John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

        by Barry in MIA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:07:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I think you mis-read (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Kim from Pgh PA

    why people were upset by the debate.  I was not because they were tough on Obama.  It was because in a 2hour debate, it took 52 minutes to get to the first substantive question.  It is because of the media perpetuating the dumbing down of America.  

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

    by Snickers77 on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:39:02 PM PDT

  •  WHERE IS YOUR TIP JAR? (0+ / 0-)

    seriously.

    You don't come on here and then tuck tail and run. We want to engage you in conversation.

    But that ain't what you want, is it?

    Hope you had fun venting! (I didn't read past the point where you stopped being correct and got insulting)

    Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

    by RisingTide on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:46:40 PM PDT

  •  This Diary has a "troll" feel to it. n/t (0+ / 0-)

  •  Sorry you've become so 'bitter' .... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Hark

    I respect your right to your opinion and to voice said opinion. But I respectfully have to disagree with you on a couple points:

    1. The outrage regarding the debate did not center only on how Obama was being treated -- it was the ridiculous and irrelevant questions they were asked, especially the questions during the first half of the debate. It was also about all the issues they didn't even touch on, which actually affect people's everyday lives. The majority of comments I read were along these lines.
    1. There was no whining going on by Obama. You must have gotten that spin from cable news. He did what he should have done -- acknowledge the stupidity and frustration with the tabloid-type, manufactured "controversies" which the questions focused on for half the debate. He did not complain, he did not whine. He pointed out something that needed to be pointed out, because it was despicable and failed the American people. We're picking our PHe then expressed that these "issues" are part of running for President, and he expects that. He then literally and figuratively brushed it off. How exactly is that whining? I'm sorry, but just as you have a right to express your feelings and opinion, so does Obama, and so do voters. We're sick to death of the bullshit thrown at us by the media, and of this style of politics -- we're therefore making our voices known, as we are part of a democracy. Anger and frustration, yes. Whining - no.
    1. You seem to be upset with how the progressive base of the party is making their voices known at the time when several significant political shifts are beginning. You refer to our expressions as a "hysterical echo chamber" and "adolescent posturing", for example. Understand something: many, many, many people in this country are beyond pissed off and well beyond the camel's back being broken. We have not recognized our country in a long time, and have been ignored by our government. Things are so f*cked up that it ALMOST seems beyond hope. Many now feel we do have some hope, and we're exploding with all the built up frustrations and deep anger we have about the state of things in the country we love and live in.

    You got a problem with that -- that's too bad. Go to the green party or whatever if you can't see what is so OBVIOUS to so many of us as an opportunity to get our country back. Either join the effort for yourself and your family, or get out of the way. It's happening with or without you. You can count on it.

  •  I can't beleieve that all democrats aren't (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Hark

    upset about the debate.  We allow the media to tell us this is what you need to know about to decide who is to be president.  Does s/he drink beer or wine, coffee or latte, bowl, hunt, or have all the same ideas and thoughts that you do. S/he knew this person or that in their past or speaks to them now.  They may be influenced by them or hold their same opinions even though there is no proof through the candidates own words or actions to back it up.  We're don't really want to know and understand issues like the economy or  know what is really happening in Irag.  We aren't intelligent enough or simply don't care, even though we keep asking for the media to discuss these issues and help to educate us.  Obama may not be able to debate worth a damn, but he can inspire millions of people with his words and he can organize them and allow them to act on their own to achieve a common goal. And believe it or not I do think he can do better, but I get the feeling he doesn't know how to go at Hillary Clinton in a debate and not disrespect her and the democratic party and not break that unwritten rule of not doing the republicans job for them.  He'll be under no such rule when it comes to John McCain.  

    We aren't whining about tough questions or Obama's performance and neither is he.  We are upset at a process that believes that these trivial issues are what a president should be defined by.

    Boycott all Corporate Media with dishonorable journalistic standards. Obama vs McCain 2008

    by psdunc on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:03:45 PM PDT

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