On the ground in the Lehigh Valley 3

Yesterday I asked dozens of voters around the Lehigh Valley to talk about what they did and did not admire in the presidential candidates. I sought out areas where I thought I'd hear some of the harsher judgments on them.

What I didn't hear endorsed by even a single voter, Democrat or Republican, were any of those scandals that the traditional media has obsessed over during the last few months. Nobody mentioned "bittergate". Obama's relation to Ayers came up only once; an older couple in Allentown thought the Ayers allegations were confusing and irrelevant. The words "Bosnia" and "sniper" never came up at all.

It's not that I didn't evoke some negative opinions. One middle-aged voter in an up-scale Allentown neighborhood declared that Hillary will bring in socialism, and she said with what appeared to be pride that she couldn't think of a single positive thing to say about Obama. But even so, nobody cared to mention the bizarre "scandals" that have loomed so large in media coverage. In fact only a single voter thought the Philadelphia debate was anything but a waste of time.

Most of the people I spoke to want the traditional media to drop the trivial nonsense and start informing voters about the issues they do care about: the economy, Iraq, healthcare, the mortgage crisis, outsourcing jobs. Nearly everybody agrees that the country is in crisis, and they want to know what the plan is to fix the mess. They have the quaint notion that the traditional media ought to take an interest in that as well.

Well, I need to correct one statement I just made. An activist I met outside a polling place did say he'll never vote for Obama because of Rev. Wright. But he's a Redstate blogger, a self-described neocon whose main complaint about the Iraq war is that Bush did not "bomb Iraq into a parking lot". Otherwise a jovial enough Republican, but hardly typical of the other voters I met - none of whom approve of the war or occupation of Iraq. In fact, one woman who'd like to vote for McCain in November said she really hopes he'll change his mind about staying in Iraq because McCain's position is untenable. So I think the right-wing bloggers have a corner on the Wright "scandal" for now. The public as a whole doesn't seem to realize that it's supposed to care.

•  These 'scandals' are mostly the gaseous

  bloviations of BeltWay BubbleHeads.

  Always have been, and always will be.

  Even Monica was rejected by the overwhelming majority of Americans at the time as being an important measurement about the approval rating of Bill.

  by shpilk on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:03:13 PM PDT

  •  [of course, the scary characterizations of the

    uninformed public at large is even worse: 'Hillary will bring Socialism' .. what a hoot].

    by shpilk on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:04:19 PM PDT

  •  it is funny

    Rush says Obama is a chicken
    Bennett says Obama lacks a moral compass
    and Buchanan can't realize why anyone would vote for someone with high negatives.

    BTW Rush has a new "meat pack special" he is pimping, fresh meat straight from the Dominican Republic.  Maybe a course of Oxycontins on one side and a course of Viagra on the other wrapped around a prepubescent child for a Ditto's personal enjoyment?      

    by entlord1 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:51:57 PM PDT

•  If the trivial media can't shape this election

  then they have failed, don't you get it?  

  What else is left?  

  There hasn't been a white woman missing in probably days, maybe weeks, surely not months?

  by panicbean on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:03:55 PM PDT

  •  I'm waiting for the missing white woman

    to make her departure from the primary race.

    She won't be missed!

    by shpilk on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:05:10 PM PDT

  •  More than four months of daily reporting from

    the campaign trail have exhausted the creativity of political journalists.  They are looking for sensational angles for their stories at this point.  Simply put, they are bored with writing about candidates' positions on the continuing occupation of Iraq, universal health-care proposals, economic stimulus packages, etc.  This isn't to say the electorate is bored.  In fact, they are just getting interested in the policy differences when they are supposed to make their informed decision.  Only political junkies are titillated by what Senator Obama's former pastor said to his congregation five years ago, or what actually transpired at Tuzla airport when Senator Clinton arrived ten years ago.  This is all insider stuff that voters find distracting from the democratic process.

    by The Totalizer on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:52:58 PM PDT

  •  dog whistle politics are shaping it

    any day Lou Dobbs will start complaining about woodpiles.

    by entlord1 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:52:55 PM PDT

•  Only people who care about the scandal

  are people who never would have voted for Obama anyway.  They just needed an excuse.

  by unertl on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:04:17 PM PDT

•  I think he did really well, actually!

  I really feel that people have vastly under-estimated the "home state" advantage. When you look at the performance of both candidates in such states, it is indisputable that Obama does much better, often twice as well as Clinton.

  by yaddab on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:04:59 PM PDT

•  Given all that, empty parking lots.

  by JugOPunch on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:05:43 PM PDT

  •  Guernica

    I asked the guy whether he'd be in favor of that PA town being bombed into a parking lot, if the power relation were reversed. He thought probably not.

    by smintheus on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:15:58 PM PDT

    •  Actually, didn't we already bomb Iraq into

      a parking lot?  Isn't that what you call a country with no electricity, no fresh water, etc.?

      by Fasaha on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:36:32 PM PDT

      •  call it a desert

        by entlord1 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:53:19 PM PDT

    •  Heh, I agree. The shit is eating up everything.

      Maybe my phrasing needs work? Yet, parking lots are not a great investment.

      Neither, is bombing.

      There was a time and some idiots still think so.

      by JugOPunch on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:51:25 PM PDT

•  And

  they imagine regular Americans to be stupid. HA!

  That Redstate blogger would never vote for Obama or Clinton even if they were lily white men wrapped in flags, spouting passages from the Bible and wearing crowns of thorns.

  by Sassy on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:06:08 PM PDT

•  Better alert ABC eom

  by trmasonic on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:07:07 PM PDT

•  One thing all can agree - stop the robocalls

  We saw over 1000 PA residents register at the National Political Do Not Contact Registry over the past week.

  All said that they were sick and tired of having their privacy invaded.

  Here are some quotes:

  -I tend to not vote for the person who calls me the most. I am up late at night and these calls wake me up for no real reason. I can get the information they are trying to send from other sources with a lot more detail.
  -They impact my life by helping to decide who NOT to vote for. These systems are an annoyance and getting them assists me in choosing against you.
  -Calling just annoys me and I assure you it has nothing to do with my vote. I vote on issues, if you annoy me enough I will look at the opponents more thoroughly.
  -I will not vote for ANY candidate, even my pick, if I receive any calls from them. I have voted in every election since I became of age without any phone calls & I don't need them now!

  Regards,

  Shaun Dakin
  CEO
  StopPoliticalCalls.org

  by shimane on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:07:18 PM PDT

•  if only

  Joe, Tweety, George, Pat, Wolf, and the rest of the gang would read this.

  PLEASE - my kingdom for some substance!

  Thank you for writing this!

  by Dem in the heart of Texas on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:07:29 PM PDT

•  Your Redstate blogger

  Almost certainly was not voting for Obama well before he knew about Rev. Wright.  No, his reason is probably that he's a

  Ni**er!  Ni**er!  Ni**er!  Ni**er!

   Just like Pat Buchannan

  In a way, we're at such delicious juncture in our nation's history because racism has become so viscerally disgusting, so closely associated with crackpots, lunatics, and just plain old jerks, that even the vision of Pat Buchannan running in circles screaming racist diatribes on TV is enough to make most civilized folk recoil in disgust.  

  And Obama is such a class act that he just shakes that stuff off . . . one of the reasons I'm such a fanboi.  It's hard not to like somebody with class like that.  He makes all those concerns seem so mundane.  Yeah, some people are racist.  Just gotta shake 'em off.

  by slippytoad on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:10:35 PM PDT

  •  B/C the good senator knows that

    racism like that described above is about the racist and not the victim of that racism. A racist statement, thought, belief, etc reflects only on the person who is speaking, thinking, believing, etc. It's make them ugly. (It's a whole other thing when it's codified or results in systematic disenfranchisement.... but that's not what is being talked about here).

    by hester on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:21:36 PM PDT

  •  I asked him in fact

    knowing the answer in advance, whether there was anything Obama could say or do that would win his vote. Nope. Wright sure sounded to me like a convenient justification for dismissing Obama.

    by smintheus on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:21:59 PM PDT

  •  Brush that racist off my shoulder. n/t

    by edg on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:47:41 PM PDT

  •  lots of N word on the aol comment boards

    from unreconstructed wingers; they are the ones who saw "CSA" on IFC and thought it was the History Channel.  

    by entlord1 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:54:39 PM PDT

•  I got caught off-guard re: Rev. Wright

  I didn't know what I had tuned in on while twiddling the radio dials, but it was one of the most compelling and truly Christian sermons I've ever heard....I couldn't NOT listen.....Extremely moving.

  It was the very sermon some ill-intentioned people took a snippet from.

  I hope people of good will can repair the damage and make up for it, by spreading the word.

  LINK:
  http://www.dailykos.com/...

  by LNK on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:12:49 PM PDT

•  don't ignore race(ism)

  know a Obama volunteer in SW PA where the sheriff suggested, "for his own safety", that they leave the area.

  for those who haven't grown under it's influence it's hard to imagine - it permeates everything.  you are constantly astonished at those seeming good, respectable people that are embittered racists, not to mention the going nowhere crowd who have nothing to lose.

  of course under republicans it's all code worded, and of course no exit poll is ever going to mention the obvious.

  by thegreatmaco on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:14:52 PM PDT

  •  I don't understand

    are you speaking of the gender bias against HRC or the fact that every black is voting for BHO because he is black? Is that ok with you? Seems racist to me.

    by insideinfo on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:19:15 PM PDT

    •  What's to understand?

      Hillary had the black vote locked up early on 85% to 15%. She lost it. Seems stupid to me.

      by edg on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:49:30 PM PDT

  •  Before

    Pennsylvania, no one mentioned race. Don't forget Philly voted for Obama. White liberal males. I can say that N.C. and those mostly black states are prejudiced too. They are voting for Obama because he is black and against Hillary because she is a white woman. And Obama is supposed to be the uniter. i don't think so. Forget the race card. I know Rev Wright is the one preaching hatred and division and he is Obama's spiritual adviser. We don't really know Obama.

    by anamaria on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:49:55 AM PDT

•  Some guys at a bar told me the same thing

  A couple of 20-something guys, quite likeable and fun to talk with (I'm 55, so talk was the action :), told me they were Independents and would've voted GOP.  But they say McCain's too old and out of touch with the world.  They don't like Clinton one bit and say she'll never win (McCain would crush her, they opined).  And they really aren't into Obama, either, primarily because Rev. Wright, they claimed, said white men were the devils!  But Obama is ultimately better than Clinton and they'd pull the lever for him "if that's who we have to have" to counter McCain.

  Interesting...

  by Dana99 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:16:00 PM PDT

•  I disagree

  I think the criticism of BHO's judgement in his associations with Wright and Ayers is a legitamate issue and the people i have spoken with agree. Its public record - facts that he must stand up to and instead he is running away. If HRC was given Florida as she deserves and if you count Michigan where he pulled himself out then HRC would be ahead.

  by insideinfo on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:16:02 PM PDT

  •  You forgot your snark tag...

    by wry twinger on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:24:15 PM PDT

  •  sounds like you've got a strong bias

    in the matter of assessing the significance of these "issues".

    by smintheus on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:30:30 PM PDT

    •  What bias?

      Tell me specifically what is biased about my opinion? I think your so biased in favor of anything BHO says that you don't care what he doesn't say and any disagreement is biased. She now leads in the popular vote, if you include the Florida and Michigan results, by 121,943 votes. I only stated facts pal.

      by insideinfo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:35:13 AM PDT

      •  facts, sure: "I think....."

        I reported on what PA voters told me. How does that make me biased?

        by smintheus on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:36:26 AM PDT

        •  Facts

          Asked why he would be friends with the likes of Weatherman Bill Ayers, Obama said: "The notion that ... me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense."

          That's a slick answer -- even "Clintonian"! -- but the problem is, Ayers and his Weatherman wife, Bernadine Dohrn, won't stop boasting about their days as Weathermen.

          It's not simply that they haven't repented. To the contrary, those were their glory days! And Ayers isn't just someone who lives in the neighborhood: He and Dohrn were there at the inception of Obama's political career, hosting a fundraiser for Obama at their home back in 1995.

          Besides wanton violence, including a dozen bombings of buildings such as the Pentagon, the U.S. Capitol, historic statues and various police stations, the Weathermen's "revolutionary" activity consisted primarily of using the word "motherf-----" a lot, dropping LSD, coming up with cutesy phrases -- like "the Weather Underground" -- and competing over who could make the most offensive statements in public. (I also believe Dohrn may have set the North American record for longest stretch without bathing.)

          At one rally, Dohrn famously praised the Manson family for murdering Sharon Tate and others, shouting: "Dig it. First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them. They even shoved a fork into a victim's stomach! Wild!"

          In a better country, just saying "Dig it!" in public would get you 20 years in the slammer.

          Dohrn has recently tried to clarify her Manson remarks by saying it was some sort of "statement" about violence in society and, furthermore, that she said it while under sniper fire in Bosnia. Also recently, the members of the Manson family have distanced themselves from Ayers and Dohrn.

          At other rallies, Dohrn said, "Bring the revolution home, kill your parents -- that's where it's at."

          by insideinfo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:57:39 AM PDT

          •  HRd for

            

            Seeing as this is the second time you have posted this identical comment within the same diary thread.

            by LynneK on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:55:04 PM PDT

      •  Agree with you insideinfo

        BHO fans are so blind with hatred toward Hillary that it impairs their logic. They are bad losers too. They are hurting BHO especially with Middle America who are afraid of their views. Count FLA and Michigan and Hillary wins. If you disagree with them they answer with insults. There goes BHO. They will help MCCain to win in november if BHO wins the nomination. I hope BHO realizes this. I think he is tryin to detach from them.

        by anamaria on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:05:29 PM PDT

  •  Did you mean "legitimate"? You must be ...

    on of those Children Left Behind I keep hearing about.

    by edg on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:53:10 PM PDT

  •  What exactly is the issue?

    Can anyone even name the committee that Ayers and Obama sat on?  Was it the Weatherman Foundation?  Who appointed Ayers?  Was it Obama?  Or was it the other way around?  Who cares?

    by The Totalizer on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:00:52 PM PDT

•  I talked to a so called "Democrat" in Easton, PA

  who said he would never vote for Obama because of his name.

  by Code Breaker on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:16:30 PM PDT

  •  And...

    How many voters did youi talk to overall? One jerk does not a trend make.

    by nascardem on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:18:42 PM PDT

    •  about 500

      about 90% were "dems for hillary" and they also said they would never vote for him.

      by Code Breaker on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:20:49 PM PDT

  •  no surprise there

    There's actually a very large Arabic population in the Lehigh Valley.

    I remember that during the First Gulf War, some moron burned down a store in Allentown belonging to a Syrian family.  The moron, like many other people in The Valley, was apparently too stoopid to know that Syrians are not Iraqis. Apparently anyone with an accent and brown skin, is close enough.  (sigh)

    by Lenny Flank on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:17:04 PM PDT

•  Okay, Markos doesn't like MSM, and I can't

  stomach "traditional media" because it affords too much respect to the cheap imitation of journalism trash that we now have. I've noticed COM (corporate owned media) used here, but even that doesn't convey enough contempt. Maybe we could pay Frank Luntz to come up with the perfect descriptor, He's the best and would sell his grand mother's teeth if the price was right.

  by geez53 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:16:30 PM PDT

•  Thank you!

  If I read one more comment that accuse the people who supported Clinton of being rascists, I may scream. It is good to read someone who was actually in PA talk about what issues people were really interested in.  

  by nascardem on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:17:11 PM PDT

•  I have yet to talk to any non blogger

  (ok, one) who has ever even heard about the Bosnia BS. I had the pleasure of describing the situation to two Oregon voters today....

  by Buffalo Girl on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:17:26 PM PDT

•  You, my friend...

  will never get a job at CNN, MSNBC, or FOX.

  by Internets on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:18:48 PM PDT

•  Home of the brain dead

  What we have is an example of the brain dead feeding the brainless.The result is that it's braining cats and dogs.

  for what it's worth: for every thousand tornadoes in America, there is one somewhere else in the world. It's natures way of telling you..... something is very wrong.

  by tRueffert on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:21:03 PM PDT

•  But George Stepsinalotofit told us...

  that everyone cares about the flag.

  Are you trying to say that he's out of touch!!??
  I may be coming down with the vapors...

  by wry twinger on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:21:13 PM PDT

  •  Oh he was talking about the US Flag?

    I thought he meant any flag, guess I better stop wearing my old Soviet Union Flag lapel Pin

    by Code Breaker on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:26:59 PM PDT

  •  I prefer George Staphylococcus myself

    It's greek, like George, and means "bunch of grapes" which is how you get whine, I mean wine, anyway.

    Also, in the biological order it is approximately the level to which I think he has sunk.

    by slippytoad on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:33:30 PM PDT

•  I've met/overheard quite a few

  who mention the scandals.  The thing is, they are diehard Republicans who wouldn't have voted for Clinton or Obama in a million years anyway.

  by John DE on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:23:14 PM PDT

•  "Issues they do care about"

  Issues they do care about: the economy, Iraq, healthcare, the mortgage crisis, outsourcing jobs. Nearly everybody agrees that the country is in crisis, and they want to know what the plan is to fix the mess. They have the quaint notion that the traditional media ought to take an interest in that as well.

  Unfortunately, both candidates are spending time responding to charges from the other side.  Their stance on any of those topics (if they have one) is drowned out by bullshit soundbites. sigh

  This has become a freakin' circus..

  by Skeptical Bastard on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:23:23 PM PDT

•  Somthing about a blue dress...

  Does the media even care anymore if the subject isn't about a cum stained blue dress, so to speak?

  by common sense patriot on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:26:49 PM PDT

•  The media thinks we are

  only capable of digesting "scandals"...just look at what we get fed every night on TV and what makes the headlines of our news.....they are just dumbing us down and don't want us to know about the real issues. Then if we don't know we can't be real players in this democracy....which is of course what those in power want. My 2 cents...

  by question everything on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:28:10 PM PDT

•  half electorate listening ... half are deaf

  I have been reading a bunch of the anecdotal main street stories over the past week or so. There seems to be a common thread.

  Half of the voters are eager consumers of information about the candidates and have made up their mind after a careful judgement.

  Half of the voters don't want to think about it and would dearly love to just stick with their first impression, or honor their long-held bias.

  I'm probably being generous saying that half are listening. In a traditional rust-belt state like PA or a deep red state like AL, its probably a whole lot more than half that are willfully deaf.

  by grapes on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:40:49 PM PDT

•  Issues? We don' need no steenking issues. n/t

  by edg on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:43:03 PM PDT

•  the trad media are thinking in terms of

  entertainment, and they mistakenly think that they themselves are entertaining.  The are convinced they'll have higher ratings if they sex up the race with some catfighting.  They are also very well paid, so they have no real connection to the economic woes of real people.  So they fool themselves into believing they are doing the right thing.  It is so tiring and exasperating I could scream.  Never was a TV watcher, but I haven't tuned in once since this endless race began.  Watched the debates on the computer.

  by SottoVoce on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:45:35 PM PDT

  •  Very Tiring

    I generally follow the election coverage very carefully.  Ironically enough I have not had my television turned on to one single news show since "Super Tuesday" except to watch football and baseball games.  

    I listen to the radio, I read the blogs and I actually went to all the candidates bio's to figure out who I really did support (good lord, can you imagine an informed voter??).

    For the record:  50 year old white woman (blue collar) who DID NOT vote for Senator Clinton.  I'm old enough to remember President Clinton's time in the White House (though one can not blame her for that (wait judgment right) woops).  Anyway, I don't find her and Senator Obama's policies all that much different but the ones that are different were significant enough for me to go outside 'the demographic' as it were.

    For the record: I have not watched one single debate (nor have I played any of the hours of debate debate) - - I did however watch EVERY one of Reverend Wright's 'sermons' and actually got the context of them (imagine that - non college grad blue collar white woman).

    BTW: Why has SO LITTLE been made of the comment from President Clinton that the 'age' thing is because Senator Obama's supporters are 'young/being fooled' (sorry I am too lazy to look up the original quote)

    by MA Voter on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:28:46 PM PDT

  •  so McCain and Hillary have agreed to a jello

    wrestling match best 2 of 3 winner takes the presidency? hey if it is on Fox it is true.

    by entlord1 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:56:33 PM PDT

•  Well, if only the public would start yelling

  at the media to start covering the real issues.  God it just drives me bat shit that so many people just accept the way it is instead of doing something about it.  I wonder how many have have written a letter or an email, or made a telephone call to someone in the media to complain and start demanding they cover the issues and not what most people agree is trivial nonsense as you say.  If they don't like it THEY NEED TO DEMAND CHANGE.  I'm so tired of people in this country refusing to do anything to FIX WHAT'S BROKEN.

  Geez, I'm on a tear tonight.  I'm so upset about this primary and I'm sick to death of the media spin and campaign spins.  I can only say I'm so glad to be leaving for a short vacation tomorrow.  I'm bringing my laptop, but I plan to stay tuned out from politics while I'm gone and enjoy being with my siblings and Dad.  

  Maybe when I get back, I will have adjusted my attitude a bit and then I can look forward to getting pissed off and angry all over again!  

  by Sally in SF on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:51:31 PM PDT

•  Hillary a "socialist"????

  The doofii who blither about the Clintons being "leftist" or "socialist" really amuse me.  They should go to Europe or South America and see what REAL leftists look like.

  Here in the US, we haven't had a real "Left" since the IWW's all got arrested back in 1919(*).

  *--No, the SDSers, Yippies, and other "New Left" of the 60's don't count, since they consisted almost exclusively of well-off white college students, usually of wealthy parentage, with nary a real factory worker anywhere amongst them -- though that didn't seem to stop them from endlessly declaring manifesto after manifesto "on behalf of the working class".  

  by Lenny Flank on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:11:06 PM PDT

  •  Not even Meteor Blades? nt

    by gogol on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:43:25 PM PDT

  •  Uh ...

    ......almost exclusively of well-off white college students.

    Not only were we not all well off - although there were certainly many affluent SDSers, and the top leadership was certainly in that category - but many of us did come from working-class backgrounds. My mother got her GED at age 30, for instance, and both she and my stepfather were union members.

    But the worst part of your comment is the vulgar Marxist notion that only the working class can be socialists or leftists. Thus Marx, Engels, Lenin, Willy Brandt, Ernesto Guevara, Fidel Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Gunnar Myrdal and a megaton of others can't be called real leftists either.

    by Meteor Blades on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:26:57 PM PDT

    •  I'd quite agree

      None of them were leftists.

      Just ask the working people who lived under them.

      :)

      by Lenny Flank on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:14:36 AM PDT

  •  I was thinking the same thing

    Every time some idiot calls Clinton (or any American politician) a "socialist" I want to call my lawyer to initiate a slander lawsuit on behalf of the estate of Karl Marx.

    by DavidHW on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:45:48 PM PDT

•  by the way

  I'm from the Lehigh Valley.  It's a great place to be, uh, from.

  by Lenny Flank on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:13:01 PM PDT

•  Wright, Ayers, Rezko, Farrakan

  People are hesitant to say that these fellows are reasons why they didn't vote for Obama. Whenever these men are brought up, the racist card is thrown.  And of course these issues are on their minds.  Obama has run on Judgment trumps experience, and his associations with these people show an incredible lack of judgment.  Obama supporters won't accept the fact that in the General election, these men will be in ads over and over again. When a Dove runs against a Hawk, ones feeling about America ARE an issue. To ignore that as fact is to guarantee a McCain landslide. What disheartens me is that the Democratic Party has gotten so out of step with the mainstream that they AREN'T an issue--as compared to how they WILL be an issue in the General.  The party of Bill Clinton has been taken over by the moveon.org/Michael Moore wing of the party.  If Obama gets the nomination it will be 1988 all over again.  Poppy Bush even won California.  And I see no reason why McCain can't do the same, along with TX, PA, OH and FL--All the states that Hillary won. Electoral college math does not bode will for Obama and his small state strategy.  It may end up working in the primary, but in the winner take all General; it’s a landslide for McCain.

  by rvme on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:31:09 PM PDT

  •  I agree

    Daily Kos and Move-On along with Wright, farrakan, Ayers, Michael Moore and MSNBC are hurting BHO. MCCAin will win the elections because of them. They can use the race card and still they will lose in the general elections.Middle America is scare of them. Bill Clinton won because he moved to the center, which is the reason these extremists hate him. The Center is the winning team. Hillary knows it too. This election isn't about the left or even the right.

    by anamaria on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:12:45 PM PDT

    •  Stop making sense

      Seriously you will give these guys a heart attack!

      by rvme on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:43:03 PM PDT

•  dems are smarter than that

  i have my opinion of the candidates and i certainly don't pay much attention to these stupid issues....other than wright, which I think will hurt Obama in the GE.  (since I want a dem to win, I will vote for whoever has the best chance)  However, I think the whichever candidate does the best job of resurrecting "it's the economy, stupid"  will win.  

  Obama will need to gain the trust of working joes to defeat mccain in the GE.  

  by the ac on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:03:14 PM PDT

•  Yeah, they're hipsters, alright

  As in prime targets for hip replacement surgery ...

  by RevJoe on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:38:13 PM PDT

•  As a reminder

  the race will be over today if the traditional media starts discussing actual issues.  McCain has nothing to run on when it comes to real, substantive, important topics.  His only chance, as well as the chances of most Republicans, is to base their campaigns in petty nonsense.

  It's only a matter of time before gay marriage and evolution re-emerge as "major" issues.

  by ABlueKansas on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:23:02 AM PDT

•  re: 'Bomb them to a parking lot" answer

  I usually as how many people have to die in the Middle East for one American just to elicit the inevitable "kill them all" rsponse. When they do that I ask them "Shouldn't we kill everyone else on earth? That way there wouldn't be anyone who could attack us." This is usually met with silence. If it is I follow with "Then we'd ony have to be worried about ourselves...who killed everyone else on earth." It's usually a show stopper.

  by Dave the Wave on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:43:41 AM PDT

  •  There's good reason to 'worry about ourselves'

    Where there is a marked disparity between the incidence of crime in the US and all other comparable developed countries is in the per capita rate of murder commited with firearms. The most recent data show that the proportion of Americans killed by firearms is more than three and a half times greater than the next country of comparable development (Portugal.) The proportion of Americans killed by firearms per year is more than seven and a half times greater than the comparable proportion of residents in the 10 developed countries with the next highest rates of firearm homicides.

    from Wikipedia

    by gotgat54 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:09:47 PM PDT

•  Thanks for posting this series.

  I grew up in the Lehigh Valley, lived there for 22 years, and it really pains me to see all these people trashing PA because it really is a great place (and far more liberal/less racist than where I live now). Thank you for writing a balanced report about the voters who live there.

  by missdewey on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:02:05 AM PDT

•  group think

  I realized that at least online, Obama supporters are preaching to the choir. The reason why Hillary won PA is because there are lots of older women who love Hillary and don't use the internet. They don't see the Obama girl videos, they don't see John Stewart, they don't read blogs, and they don't read bulletin boards. You're not going to convince those ladies by typing inflamatory comments in a "comments" box of some random page in an online news site. Obama supporters must think creatively and act physically (not just online) if they want to win Indiana, West Virginia, and Kentucky.  

  by dackhouse on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:28:26 AM PDT