Clinton rep. says pledged delegates don't matter

There is a fast and furious discussion going on at BlueOregon right now in response to a bullshit-laden post by Josh Kardon, chair of the Clinton Steering Committee in Oregon.  The focus of his Dana Perino-style nonsense:  Barack has missed opportunities to seal the deal, so Hillary is better!

When challenged in the comments to lay out the course for Hillary to achieve the nomination, Paddy McGuire, a member of Hillary's Oregon Steering Committee, responded:

Here's how I see it happening: She wins Indiana (despite him being from next door), loses NC by single digits and splits the last seven states. Then the superdelegates do their job and decide who is the best candidate to defeat John McCain, taking into consideration the fact that she has won a large proportion of the big states that are critical to victory in the fall

This is the Clinton strategy:  The "superdelegates do their job".  

The supers are the only delegates that matter.  PLEDGED DELEGATES DO NOT MATTER.  Pledged delegates are irrelevant.  Clinton is fully intending, and actively seeking, a coup. The supers can ignore everything - pledged delegates, popular vote, number of contests won, according to Paddy.  They only need to "take into consideration" the "big" "important" states.  

This rasises a few obvious questions, which neither Josh nor Paddy have yet answered:

Is Oregon "a big state that is critical to victory in the fall"?

IF YES, what are you going to say when Hillary loses Oregon?

IF NO, why is Bill Clinton coming to Oregon in a few days? Is it because Hillary continues to compete for pledged delegates, when you assert that the pledged delegate count is irrelevant?

Why bother competing for pledged delegates if pledged delegates are irrelevant? Save your money and wait for August.

If the only thing that matters is persuading the supers based on Clinton's performance, as Paddy spelled out, then there is NO REASON to seat the MI and FL delegates.  So why does the Clinton campaign keep pressing to seat these delegates?

Also:

If pledged delegates don't matter, why is Clinton trying to poach Obama's pledged delegates?

The Clinton campaign has known all along that the standard to win is pledged delegates.  Now they are trying spin like mad to make everyone forget that.  Are you kidding me?  We are NOT going to buy that spin.  No way, no day.  Are you hearing me Josh and Paddy?  Not. buying. it.

And another thing.

If you read through Paddy's comments to Josh's post, you see that Paddy is well-versed in all of the Clinton campaign's nonsensical talking points and crazy spin that only the lobotomized can honestly believe.  Those talking points are debunked here, here, and here.  And here.

It really pisses me off how Josh and Paddy came to the BlueOregon community of all places to spew their baloney.  We are the progressive community in Oregon, and we know better.  How dare they try to pass off their willful, Rovian lies as their honestly-held beliefs. How dare they call themselves Democrats while using Karl Rove tactics. It is an incredible insult to all Oregon Democrats.  Unbelievable and truly unforgivable.

•  Hypocrisy

  The thing I hate the most in a politician is hypocrisy. And Hillary Clinton and her supporters are oozing it.

  After Obama wins the Presidency, I propose a purging of hypocrites, crooks and other liabilities to our democracy.

  -fink

  by fink on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:09:20 PM PDT

  •  LoL. Guess that means everyone will be out.

    Enjoy your solo celebration!

    by SuperCameron on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:22:16 PM PDT

    •  LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL!

      that is so damn funny!  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

      by JLFinch on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:34:16 PM PDT

  •  Takeaway: if she loses IN & gets blown away in NC

    SHE'S DONE.

    It is official. Paddy McGuire confirms it. Clinton is out after May 6th.

    by slaney black on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:00:21 PM PDT

•  The people need to be heard...!

  Never mind!!... The people don't matter.

  by rclendan on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:09:41 PM PDT

  •  oh yes - we have heard so much

    whining about "disenfranchising" voters - and then Hillary turns around and leaves it all up the SUPERS and not the voters.

    She needs to  admit that she is a Karl Rove style liar.

    by JLFinch on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:54:05 PM PDT

•  And I say Hillary doesn't matter.

  God why is everyone so afraid of Hillary, or offending her?  PPl shouldn't be afraid of that sad sack (she's sad bc apparently she's sold out whatever values she use to have).  She should be afraid of the people.  We make her relevant, not the other way around.  She's a clown and so are her shills.

  by Shhs on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:17:08 PM PDT

•  Go vote - they want Obama to drop out

  http://www.cnn.com/...

  by cscmm on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:17:33 PM PDT

•  Just keep telling yourself...

  only 41 more days. Only 41 more days.

  Ooommmmm....41.

  by ATLSandlapper on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:18:01 PM PDT

•  Pledged delegates say Hillary doesn't matter....

  is that what they meant to say?

  by CriticalThinker on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:19:47 PM PDT

•  All these diaries accusing the hated witch

  of saying things that she really didn't say at all are getting to be real yawners.  Surely you can be more imaginative than this.

  by SuperCameron on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:23:51 PM PDT

  •  learn to read

    by JLFinch on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:34:39 PM PDT

•  Huh? Hasn't she been saying this ever

  since realized she couldn't catch him?

  What's new?

  by Fasaha on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:32:50 PM PDT

  •  a named individual is on record in Oregon

    now

    by JLFinch on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:35:16 PM PDT

  •  I like especially how a member of

    Hillary's Oregon steering committee says that Oregon doesn't matter - Oregon is not one of the important states.

    by JLFinch on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:47:19 PM PDT

•  DISGUSTING power-grab. Plain and simple.

  They are vile people.

  by jkddude on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:38:59 PM PDT

  •  I'm noty disgusted

    and superdelegates ARE NOT vile people.
    They are YOUR governors and members of Congress.
    If you participate in intra-party conventions
    then they are the people that YOU elected to the DNC.
    As such, they have all won BIGGER WIDER elections
    than the pledged delegates have and therefore have
    MORE democratic legitimacy than the pledged delegates.
    QUIT whining!  Obama may not be winning superdelegates
    overall, but if he loses them 55%-45% like he just
    did Pennsylvania, then HE WILL WIN.  And he is doing
    at LEAST that well among them NOW.  Besides, if they
    decide to screw him, he will STILL wind up on the
    ticket as the Vice President.  The national party
    leaders KNOW that they don't DARE throw away BOTH of
    longtime black loyalists AND The Next Generation.

    CHILL OUT.

    by ge0rge on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:31:17 PM PDT

    •  wow - you excel at the Clinton/Rove

      tactic of bullshit strawman lies!

      No one said the supers were vile - YOU SAID IT and you tried to make it look like I said it. HOW DISHONEST.  just like Hillary.

      by JLFinch on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:46:45 PM PDT

•  He's right, you're wrong

  Hillary CANNOT lose Oregon in the Fall.
  Mike DUKAKIS couldn't lose Oregon.  She probably
  can't lose WEST by God VIRGINIA either.
  She is going to kick but there AND in Kentucky.

  Stop trying to scare people by suggesting that we
  (ANY nominee we nominate) might lose Oregon.
  That ain't possible.
  That's just trolling.

  He is also right about what the superdelegates' job
  is.  That REALLY IS WHY they're there.  And they
  DON'T imply that "pledged delegates don't matter".
  If somebody has a DECENT lead in pledged delegates
  then you won't be ABLE TO GET ENOUGH superdelegates
  to overturn it.  The only time they CAN overturn it
  is when the pledged delegates are TOO CLOSE to be
  a mandate, when "the people" have simply FORFEITED
  their "Right To Choose" by choosing A TIE.

  For anybody to say that 15 or 20 delegates (if she
  can get that close) out of 4000 really matters
  is frankly, ridiculous.  Winning the general really
  DOES matter MORE.  You ought to pick something that
  Hillary is more guaranteed to lose than Oregon.
  Like Colorado or North Carolina.

  by ge0rge on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:28:24 PM PDT

  •  more with the strawman

    argument.

    I never said the Dems would use Oregon.

    THAT IS A LIE YOU MADE UP.  Disgusting.

    by JLFinch on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:48:29 PM PDT