Saturday Morning Home Repair blogging 2.37

Good morning.  The door is open and there's coffee brewing.

Saturday morning community-fest and at this booth we discuss home repair/improvement crises and projects.  Got a leaky faucet, or a gurgling toilet? Our ad hoc cadre of construction professionals and gifted amateurs has got info, advice and even inspiration to help you out.

Empowerment R us.  Welcome

Pushing hard this week on my own projects, and I don't have the energy this morning to do more than just get to the shop on time and open the door.  I can spare a couple of hours this morning to give an ear to your stuff.

Thanks for coming.

•  hey there, Kossians

  Bought gas this week for $3.90 a gallon.

  by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:03:06 AM PDT

  •  and we all thought Jerome

    was kidding when he posted his now passe predictions of $100/bbl crude oil.

    by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:04:52 AM PDT

    •  Who's we all? ;-)

      Naw, I believed him.  It really was inevitable.  The facts are out there, the math adds up.  

      Now whether people wanted to believe it...that's another question.

      by Fabian on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:26:35 AM PDT

      •  true, dat

        it's pushing 120 now with no end in sight.

        by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:34:32 AM PDT

        •  someone will have to start...

          ...the $200/bbl preditions soon.

          by DawnG on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:51:46 PM PDT

      •  Agree

        I always believed.

        by SarahLee on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:44:24 AM PDT

    •  Much of the increase in oil...

      ...is being driven by commodity speculators investing in oil futures.  Without the rampant speculation oil would probably still be below $100/bbl.

      by carver on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:44:09 AM PDT

      •  Regardless

        Oil is a non-renewable resource and thus climbing oil prices was absolutely inevitable.

        by SarahLee on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:02:46 AM PDT

        •  I expected it to take a little longer

          because I wasn't counting on Blundering Bush f*%#king up the Middle East.

          by Leo in NJ on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:14:02 AM PDT

          •  good morning, and...

            you weren't counting on a ME makeover? That is our entire policy, no?

            by borkitekt on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:30:24 AM PDT

          •  Personally, I was surprised

            it took this long.  

            by SarahLee on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:39:37 AM PDT

      •  For now....

        There's still the influence of the weak dollar.

        by Fabian on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:03:18 AM PDT

      •  Partially true

        But I've found a lot of people hunting for any excuse to blame someone for the high prices, such as "if we could get rid of the speculators, gas would come back down to $2/gallon". Ain't gonna happen.

        It's like global warming deniers "it's not that hot yet!" These folks are just peak oil deniers.

        by Ed in Montana on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:13:01 AM PDT

        •  I don't think that the..

          ...commodities speculators have any effect on the absolute oil available, and it's a reality that the price of oil can only increase over time.  The speculators have, however, driven the increases at a rate that is out of proportion to the the reality of the actual supply.
          In some ways this may be a blessing in the final analyses.  As the price of oil based energy gets higher, the price of alternatives become more competitive and eventually cheaper. The power companies will go for the cheap and will put more research dollars into making it cheaper.  Greed might work in this case.

          by carver on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:25:59 AM PDT

    •  Now the question is...

      Are we willing to take food out of children's mouths to continue to drive around?  What are YOU willing to sacrifice or change to stop world food shortages?  How much oil is will continue to be an issue as long as we don't change some habits and expectations.  

      by gdwtch52 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:06:09 AM PDT

  •  Hi Claude!

    I saw premium yesterday for $4.05.  Ugh.

    by boran2 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:09:53 AM PDT

    •  yeah, I eat premium

      at the rate of around 100 bucks a week

      by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:11:31 AM PDT

    •  That's about the price of regular

      in my neighborhood.  Costco has it for 3.80, but it would take me a gallon of gas to get there.

      http://gasprices.mapquest.com/

      by Webster on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:43:23 AM PDT

  •  Hey there Kossians!

    Bought gas this morning (in Australia)... AUS$6.40 for four liters (just a tad over a gallon), equating to about US$5.80 a gallon!  And, in Britain, it is much higher.

    by wgard on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:12:12 AM PDT

    •  we were subsidised

      here in the states for so long that we came to see cheap energy as an entitlement.

      by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:13:38 AM PDT

      •  And the subsidies continue!

        Estimates are that, if we removed all the gas subsidies, we'd see the real price at somewhere between $8 and $11/gl.

        by environmentalist on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:20:23 AM PDT

        •  Got a link for that?

          Some citizen was saying that the government should protect us from the high price of gas.  It would be tres ironic if the government IS protecting us already.

          by Fabian on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:36:19 AM PDT

          •  I cant remember where I read it. It was last

            year so I'm sure the estimate is higher.  I'll look for it if I get time today.

            But, to be sure, the guvment IS protecting us from the real price of gas!!

            by environmentalist on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:41:53 AM PDT

          •  Ralph, er, Nader told me that.

            10 or so years ago, at a conference in NJ, someone asked Ralph, the keynote speaker, what was the underlying subsidy of a gallon of gas in the US.

            $11 per gallon, sez Ralph.

            But that was years ago, when Ralph was Ralph. The gom'nt has moved to a market accanmy and done away with subsidies. George Bush told me that.

            by andreww on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:14:13 AM PDT

        •  Really?

          The prices you quote are normal European prices, and I was under the impression that a lot of that was taxes. That info may be outdated, perhaps the taxes have been lowered to keep the price stable.

          by Leo in NJ on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:16:48 AM PDT

          •  Taxes on gas are really quite low

            I'll look for the article but one estimate I saw put the "Real" price of gas at $15/gl!!!

            I think these estimates include tax and RD subsidization of the fossil fuel industry,government program ubsidies, protection Costs (military expenditures) for oil shipment, health, environmental and social costs..not to mention all the other costs like poor land use decisions, etc.

            There's alot that goes into producing a gl of gas.

            by environmentalist on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:59:37 AM PDT

    •  Are you driving the coast?

      by environmentalist on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:20:50 AM PDT

      •  Santa Fe prices

        and premium gas.  I have no right to complain, as I just love my car, despite the cost, and it was my free choice.

        by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:29:31 AM PDT

    •  It sure is

      AUS$6.40 for four liters (just a tad over a gallon), equating to about US$5.80 a gallon!  And, in Britain, it is much higher.

      With the garage by my house, it's £1.10 per litre.

      1 gallon = 4.545 litres

      So £4.995 per gallon.

      So roughly $10/gallon.

      Thankfully I don't drive.

      by TruthOfAngels on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:42:02 AM PDT

      •  Actually 1 gal. = 3.78 liters

        so 1gal = 4.158 pounds. Still expensive as hell.

        by carver on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:52:50 AM PDT

        •  Ah

          I'm a limey, our conversion rates are different.  I always forget that :)

          by TruthOfAngels on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:38:35 AM PDT

          •  Your right.

            The empirical gallon is egual to 4.5 liters and a hogshead is egual to 238.5 liters. Our system of measure is so screwed up.

            by carver on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:28:54 PM PDT

            •  ~$8 per gal in Sweden

              give or take a little. The gf said it was below 13 SEK.

              Prices account for a lower dollar, and in that case, I'm not sure that it has risen all that much, maybe from about 10 SEK 2 yrs ago, maybe.

              by borkitekt on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:52:38 PM PDT

            •  hogs head?

              Yeah I'd say that's pretty screwed up right there.

              by DawnG on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:59:29 PM PDT

  •  Whoa!

    3.69 up here in the valley.

    by environmentalist on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:19:04 AM PDT

  •  Morning, claude

    I have to spend some of that precious gas to take a stray cat who has decided to stay down to the free spay and neuter clinic.  Just wanted to have morning coffee with my friends here at the building club.

    After he learned to use the cat door to come in and get warm I caught him "marking his territory" inside and had to seal the door, much to the dismay of myself and my other cats.  That has meant having to have a yuckie litter box for the first time ever.

    I warned him about what would happen if he stayed around.  But stay he has.  Like everyone else who lives here, myself included, he has to sacrifice his reproductive rights to stay.

    Weather is also yuckie.  During the first part of the week it was warm enough to have a fan on.  Then we had a huge hail and rain storm Wed. night and it started snowing yesterday.  Just cold, rainy and windy today so a good day to take care of the cat since I can't do any work in the garden.  Daffodils are blooming, but it has been too uncomfortable outside to get out and enjoy them.

    My bed for corn and squash is only half done and I will have trouble getting it finished in time for planting if this weirdness keeps up.  

    Have a great day, everyone.

    by SarahLee on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:54:54 AM PDT

    •  Good on you!

      I wish all pet owners were so conscientious.

      by Fabian on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:05:17 AM PDT

      •  I do believe I am the "owned"

        not the owner.  

        Funny thing:  I grew up with Siamese and Burmese cats and one day last fall found myself thinking about starting to look for a Siamese kitten as the original cat is nearing 16 years and I figured it might take a while around here to find a Siamese - never have seen any around here.  Not serious hunting - just putting on the radar.

        Then late winter, this guy shows up  out of no-where - guess someone dumped him in the country.  And he certainly is has some Siamese ethincity.  His head though, instead of the sleek Siamese face is really round - like a ball - a BIG dark chocolate ball.  Kind of funny looking in the end.  And while quite friendly now, he isn't cuddly... this guy is built like a brick.

        Now if the Universe would just cooperate in the same way with my monthly lottery ticket purchase!  Even if not all I wished for, even a part would be helpful.

        by SarahLee on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:55:09 AM PDT

    •  "fixing" him?

      even "fixed"  ("heh, heh, I'll fix you, you SOB"), male pooties will mark turf; they can't help it, they are just wired that way.

      You get used to the smell pretty quickly...   We burn a lot of sage incense, smudge sticks we make ourselves, with a bit of juniper bark mixed in.

      by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:13:49 AM PDT

      •  Hee hee

        Well around here we are all "fixed" so as not to increase the planet's population.  :)

        The male dog certainly still marks everything outside and his cat, also male and "fixed" doesn't seem to mark in the house.  At least I've never seen or smelled it - but this new guy - he really went to town in the week before I noticed.  I've had to scrub the bottom of all the cabinets and book cases and then respray with pet enzyme stuff.

        More worried about what the occasional guest would think.  Between the occasional wood smoke from the stove, cooking with out any vent, the dog and my 3 cigarettes a day, I seldom smell anything!

        I pray with cedar and sage every morning, so there is always some of that lingering in the air.

        Off topic:
        This past winter, I occasionally boiled water on the stove to add humidity to the air when the pot on the wood stove didn't seem to be enough.  Then I looked at the windows (and the south ceiling which is clear plexiglass) and this horrible greasy film had covered them.  Stupid me, it took doing it twice  - and washing the windows in between, before I figured out it was the steam getting stuff off the ceiling and then transferring to the windows.  Guess next year I will invest in a humidifier for by the bed instead.  Washing all those suckers all the time is just too much work!

        by SarahLee on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:37:36 AM PDT

        •  guests...

          ...enter at their own risk.

          by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:43:56 AM PDT

    •  I think

      that's the snow that hit me last night/this morning -- discouraging, ain't it?

      by rincewind on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:16:29 AM PDT

      •  Yep

        Just made a run to the outhouse and the rain is trying to turn to snow - could see the flakes falling, but they disappeared on impact.  With the wind it is more like a winter day.  We already had one spring blizzard  week before last - took out power for 23 hours here.  It really is supposed to be over after that!  

        Plus the new growing zone charts indicate that we are half to a whole zone warmer than 10 years ago, so I want those extra weeks of "growing season"!!!!

        by SarahLee on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:59:05 AM PDT

    •  Every cat that's ever owned me

      has always graciously consented to being spayed or neutered.  We've all got along together just fine for it.

      I've owned one dog in my adult life, and didn't neuter him because he was a watch dog.  He didn't ever run loose, either.  I'd often take him out for long walks (runs, on his part), but I made sure he behaved himself.

      He died about ten years ago, after having lived for about the same amount.  He was a pretty neat dog, but I've got to admit it, I prefer pooties.

      by cn4st4datrees on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:25:30 AM PDT

    •  locking cat door

      You could try using a cat door that is locked to all animals not wearing a special collar.  My parents had to do this when the local raccoons figured out how to get in the cat door.  (You would not believe the mess raccoons can make.)  It's not cheap, but it does eliminate the litter box issues.

      by sarahnity on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:50:07 AM PDT

      •  Have had the coons break in before

        in years past.  Back then, we learned that human male pee was a good deterrent.  I am short a human male right now but have not had any raccoons trying to break in in several years.  

        I've heard of those types of doors you referenced - going to hope that I won't need one.

        This opening the cats use is high enough that it would take more than just stumbling upon it for a raccoon to find and use it.  Moved it up when a skunk wandered into the mud room and could have found it.  This stray was following my cats because... well, I guess because he was a lonely guy and they are other cats.

        Got Mr. Stray Cat fixed today - pick him up in the am, so another couple of weeks exiled to the outside and I should be able to open the cat door again.   Then I guess I need to figure out what the new guys name is.

        by SarahLee on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:00:30 PM PDT

  •  i filled up for $3.129 last saturday

    and i was very happy to get that price - i had a coupon for cents off a gas station from shopping at a grocery store.  

    by jlms qkw on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:58:18 AM PDT

•  quiet in here this morning.

  Did the world end last night and I'm the last to hear about it?  Maybe I better go check Google News...

  by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:08:15 AM PDT

•  thanks, Buddy and Leo

  by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:09:40 AM PDT

  •  and buckeye and boran

    by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:10:29 AM PDT

•  Good morning, Claude and everyone

  Well the weather finally got warm enough in the past couple weeks to work outdoors without an overcoat, but it is still extremely lazy around here.

  by Leo in NJ on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:12:56 AM PDT

  •  hazy here

    it is already fire season. Last night's sunset was awesome.

    by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:14:49 AM PDT

    •  It was incredible.

      Lots of haze this morning. So much so that I've my throat is hurting.

      Cold too.  I've got the heater down to 55 and it just came on.  Thank God the wind isnt blowing at the moment tho.  Its bee blowing non-stop for a week!

      On tap for me today is finishing the patio and path.  I'm laying a great flagstone patio and path.  I'm pretty happy with it. Once I get that done, I can start planting the landscape.  ITs taken me two years to get to this point!

      by environmentalist on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:18:01 AM PDT

      •  flagstone

        is such a great alternative to yet more concrete. I am blessed to be surrounded by it out here.  My neighbors ship semi loads out that they have quarried within a couple of miles of here.

        by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:21:52 AM PDT

  •  enforced laziness here

    Woke up to snow -- about an inch on grass/cars/porch (although it melts when it hits pavement), still coming down, and supposed to go on all wk-end. It's 28F here by the Big Lake, but the infamous I-Falls has only 9F!

    We had one glorious sunny day that hit 70 in a week of rain and 40's-50's, so waking up to WHITE AGAIN is about enough to make me cry.

    by rincewind on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:56:10 AM PDT

•  Nothing much going on here today

  I've been watching my neighbors have truckload after truckload of topsoil delivered.  They bought the house next door when the owner died ( at auction for $2200) then had it torn down to build a two car garage.  It broke my heart that they didn't recycle any of the 10" baseboards or other amazing woodwork from a 1908 house.

  by Buckeye BattleCry on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:13:38 AM PDT

  •  Maybe you should have made them an offer?

    Before the demolition, I mean?  Aside from that, if the materials were what is now hard-co-come-by, you might have done a favor by alerting them that they were worth an add-end to the the property value?

    by wgard on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:17:23 AM PDT

    •  I didn't know who had bought it

      until the demolition crew showed up.  I definitely didn't know anyone was planning on pulling the house down. I would have made an offer for pieces.  I still have the original baseboards in the upstairs of my house but the downstairs was all removed.  I wanted those boards!  ...and the stair railing, newel posts, interior doors, exterior cedar trim, and anything else I could've gotten my hands on.  

      by Buckeye BattleCry on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:25:07 AM PDT

•  Just a minor repair that needs to be

  done soon, and that is repacking the stem of my back door water faucet.  It drips when I open it, to I need to repack it.  The biggest problem is turning off the water supply, but I can handle that.  I hope that none has a larger problem this morning.  Warmest regards, Doc.

  by Translator on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:14:34 AM PDT

  •  stem seal

    and congrats for knowing that's what you need.  May that be your biggest problem this week.

    by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:17:00 AM PDT

  •  do mine too?

    Pleae pease pretty please?

    by tvb on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:22:14 AM PDT

    •  lol Please please

      Must not forget how to type.

      by tvb on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:22:40 AM PDT

    •  A ticket to your location would

      be in order, but short of that it is really easy.  First turn off the water supply, then disassemble the valve.  Take packing twine, or even teflon tape, and wrap the stem below the sealing nut.  Check it first to make sure it is not damaged.  Then just put it back together, tightening down the packing nut.  You are done.  Warmest regards, Doc.

      by Translator on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:38:33 AM PDT

  •  Out of curiosity,

    how do you do that? The only material I know of is graphited yarn, but I think that's for steam mostly, and very old-fashioned.

    by Leo in NJ on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:23:43 AM PDT

    •  universal gasket material

      all those plastic bags blowing by.  

      by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:32:39 AM PDT

      •  I've heard of doing that.

        Does it really work?

        by SarahLee on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:08:18 AM PDT

        •  it does work, but...

          such a gasket might have to replaced more often.

          by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:16:22 AM PDT

    •  Graphite chord is very old-fashioned, indeed.

      But, in some cases, it makes more sense than replacing the original packing.  For one thing, it does not depend on (what used to be) proprietary seals.  Aside from that, I have applied it, and seen it applied, where it was just as effective as purpose-made packing, even after 20-30 years of use.  It is a grave mistake to discount some of the 'old' materials and methods, I think.

      by wgard on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:37:55 AM PDT

    •  I often use teflon tape,

      twisted into yarn.  It is cheap and works well.  Graphite is great, but expensive so I keep it just for high temperature applications.  Warmest regards, Doc.

      by Translator on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:39:56 AM PDT

•  well pump

  A while back I asekd about pump suggestions for a cistern.  Over the winter I discovered it wasn't really a cistern but rather a well; the water level stayed constant without any discernable intake.

  So after trying out several different pumps - both portable and submersible, I finally settled on a 1hp portable lawn sprinkler pump made specially for drawing water out of ponds. Ito works great for running my soaker hoses and bonus is that it runs with a quiet hum.  Right now I have it hard piped into the well via a 1 inch pvc but will intall a tee valve at some point to accomodate my rain barrels.

  I wish there was a way to make it run on solar but for right now, I'll have to deal with the electric use.  Seeing as we have had water restrictions for two years now, it's certainly a relief to have an alternative.

  by tvb on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:21:41 AM PDT

  •  pumping water

    I run a deep well (250') pump and a shallow pump for sucking on ditch water.

    The ditchwater is abundant, but dirty.  The well water is pure enough to run through drip emitters.

    by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:25:48 AM PDT

    •  mine is clean

      Crystal clear and odorless - my garden is very happy. There's some detritus floating on top from what has washed or fallen into the hole but that's about it.  The foot valve is about 2 or three feet down and actually visible in the beam of a flashlight.

      by tvb on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:34:36 AM PDT

      •  We are all lucky

        to live in areas where groundwater is abundant.  Not everyone is so lucky.  Since I started using black Visqueen, I never water the garden except when starting young plants.  Warmest regards, Doc.

        by Translator on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:42:21 AM PDT

•  I've got lots of outside work today.

  Cleaning the yard, cutting lawn, etc.  I might even get back to some wallpainting if there's time.

  by boran2 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:29:50 AM PDT

  •  My grass is nearly ready for the first mow

    but it was snowing yesterday and rainy and windy and cold today so I get to put off work on the mower and mowing for at least another week.

    by SarahLee on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:10:58 AM PDT

•  I would appreciate some advice

  I mean to varnish my stairs, but should I use sealant?

  And if I do varnish my stairs, is that really viable, given the wear and tear of people and pooties going up and down them?

  Any advice gratefully received.

  by TruthOfAngels on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:34:43 AM PDT

  •  Inside or outside? Warmest regards, Doc.

    by Translator on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:42:56 AM PDT

    •  Inside (nt)

      by TruthOfAngels on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:44:21 AM PDT

      •  Polyurethane is the way to go, and

        you can get it from high gloss to matte.   Just be sure to vent the fumes until it cures (the basic material for polyurethane is what killed all of the folks in Bophal, India several decades ago).  Also be aware that it the humidity in the air that cures it, so it will be tacky much longer in the desert than in the southeast.  After curing, it is pretty much impervious to water and is very hard and protective.  Warmest regards, Doc.

        by Translator on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:48:47 AM PDT

        •  No worries

          Advice much appreciated, Doc.  Thanks.

          by TruthOfAngels on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:50:10 AM PDT

        •  A light spray of water on the wood prior...

          ...to painting will speed up the drying - same with  Polyurethane glues.

          by carver on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:02:23 AM PDT

  •  tough stuff

    you want something made for "high traffic" areas, like a polyurethane or gym floor sealant.  Or a marine epoxy but anything you use will wear in a stair location and have to be renewed every now and then.

    by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:44:23 AM PDT

    •  Sure thing

      But you say a polyutherane sealant is good?  I can get that pretty cheaply.

      by TruthOfAngels on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:45:39 AM PDT

      •  but

        high-gloss would be awful slippery on stairs....

        by rincewind on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:06:47 AM PDT

        •  There is an old trick, and that

          is to take fine, white sand in a saltshaker and sprinkle it on the varnish while it is wet.  It does tend to hold dirt, though.  Warmest regards, Doc.

          by Translator on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:40:07 AM PDT

          •  I did that

            on my porch steps outside, didn't know if it would be a good idea indoors though.

            by rincewind on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:06:41 AM PDT

•  A few weeks ago, one of the fire alarms in a

  bedroom went off. After vacuuming and cleaning it, as well as removing the dust from upper library shelves, we put it back in place.

  Yesterday it went off again. We used compressed air to clean it. It went off again this morning.

  It is a FireX brand dated May 2003. Does the whole unit have to be replaced? Could the wiring to it be a cause for it not to work?

  by paige on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:35:00 AM PDT

  •  is it hard wired?

    or an after market battery type?

    I have tested them by blowing ciggie smoke at it, but I don't actually have one in my own house.  I mostly heat with wood, and it often gets smoky inside for a moment.

    by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:41:27 AM PDT

    •  yes

      by paige on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:42:14 AM PDT

      •  My husbnd went to Home Depot to try to buy a

        replacement. Now they don't sell this brand. I checked other stores and it seems the FireX brand is not sold anymore - at least in our area.

        The website for FireX recommends that you replace units after they are 10 years old.

        I guess we will have to hire an electrician and replace all the units???? the units connected have to be same brand???

        by paige on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:46:07 AM PDT

        •  OK

          You should be able to do this yourself, without an electrician's (expensive) help.  Easiest solution is a battery powered one, needs no wiring,

          It might be an issue if the detectors are somehow wired into a home alarm system, which is sometimes the case in new homes.  Generally in new construction, the electrician just grabs power for a SD from whatever hot lead is nearby.  To replace that unit, you would have to determine which circuit breaker feeds power to that circuit. Does the SD have a little red light on it showing that it has power?

          by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:53:38 AM PDT

        •  Don't have to be the same brand

          unless, perhaps, they signal a house-wide alarm or a fire-suppression system.

          A battery-powered one is the easiest, and might save lives if an electrical fire cuts off power to all the other alarms.

          by Leo in NJ on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:25:36 AM PDT

  •  Is it a smoke detector, or a flame

    detector?  Different technologies.  Warmest regards, Doc.

    by Translator on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:44:05 AM PDT

    •  smoke detector

      by paige on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:46:36 AM PDT

      •  I do not recommend hard wired detectors

        for the simple reason that a fire may disrupt the power supply to the unit before it senses it.  I would recommend that you go and buy battery operated ones to replace your existing units, and mix smoke and flame detectors half and half.  Just take wire nuts and seal off the existing power connections, after turning off the appropriate breakers.  Warmest regards, Doc.

        by Translator on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:51:50 AM PDT

        •  Thanks for your advice. Five years we did some

          remodeling and the county code requires hard wired smoke detectors now. We now have the circuit breaker off.

          The electrician who did the work was not so competent. One of my objectives was to upgrade all the lighting in the house - house now 50 years old. When he attempted to show me how the kitchen dimmer would work, the exhaust fan above the cooktop went on instead! Then when he corrected this, the control on the dimmer would no longer work. So he had to replace the new dimmer with another new dimmer. It took him and his assistant a day and a half before they could get our phones working - had wanted to upgrade all the phone wiring but ended up with only new wiring to new installations - so still had to have filters for phones.

          Oh well. Again thanks. I feel better.

          by paige on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:12:44 AM PDT

          •  If the code requries hard wired,

            then you have little choice but to replace both the detector and the retaining ring.  I still would put up a couple of battery ones, though.  Mine saved my life not to long ago.  Warmest regards, Doc.

            by Translator on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:18:11 AM PDT

            •  the code

              is enforced at time of inspection of new work.  After that YOYO and you can stick up a battery one on your own.

              "the Code" is a good topic for a long discussion.  I could tell you some stories, based on (literally) 40 years of experience, ranging from (literally) being arrested and hauled off to see the judge in 1968, (they were, at least, apologetic about it all) to having inspectors praise my work and even (literally) incorporate it into their own home.

              by claude on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:27:00 AM PDT

            •  Huh?

              I hope you realize that hard wired smoke detectors also have batteries!  They are the preferred type of detector and required in many jurisdictions for this reason.  The battery powered units have no advantage besides easier installation.

              by NRG Guy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:29:01 AM PDT

              •  Yes, I do realize that,

                but also know that it is difficult to remember to replace batteries even in solely battery powered ones, and that much more difficult again to replace them in hard wired ones.  Out of sight, out of mind.  Warmest regards, Doc.

                by Translator on