Daily Kos

Vote McCain ...  if you don't like Hillary or Obama.

Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:08:55 PM PDT

Cripes I was so pissed off by Hillary's anti-democratic antics, I about flipped out.

I told a good friend of mine this.

He has been my friend since we were in third grade. We are now both Obama supporters.

"DUDE! If she tries to take this from Obama and steals this thing in convention, I am staying home. I can't vote for that bitch!"

My dearest friend Scott, after an uncomfortably long silent moment on the other end of the phone, said this ...

"Jim ... two words ... (a pause) ... Supreme Court.
Let's talk about it when you calm down."

I basically told him I can't trust her, she's a neocon ... blah blah ...

His response was to change the subject. I had a red hair burning and he knew it.

Now, I thank him for it.

Look, I am no fan of Hillary. This is obvious.

I have issues with her approach to Iraq .. the economy ... ethics ... campaign finance reform ... her honesty ... healthcare ... most definitely her allegiance to her party.

She is attacking the same people, that for years, helped to defend the Clintons. It get's me pissed.

--- end rant ---

But what my good friend said to me stuck. It stuck so hard, that it lit a fire. He was right. And I knew it.

The Supreme Court

Iraq will work itself out ... Clinton or Obama will both get us out ... McCain will be forced out, kinda like how Nixon left vietnamn. (that's my opinion anyway).

But the supreme court?

Wow ... imagine our country without Roe-Wade .. or without Habeas Corpus .. AND with Religion in Science class teaching our kids that dinosaurs were on the ark, and that condoms are evil !

Imagine a United States that Promotes TORTURE

My good friend Scott was right ... let's just take a look at Scalia ..

June 20, 2007 ...

Senior judges from North America and Europe were in the midst of a panel discussion about torture and terrorism law, when a Canadian judge’s passing remark - "Thankfully, security agencies in all our countries do not subscribe to the mantra ‘What would Jack Bauer do?’ " - got the legal bulldog in Judge Scalia barking.

The conservative jurist stuck up for Agent Bauer, arguing that fictional or not, federal agents require latitude in times of great crisis. "Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles. ... He saved hundreds of thousands of lives," Judge Scalia said. Then, recalling Season 2, where the agent’s rough interrogation tactics saved California from a terrorist nuke, the Supreme Court judge etched a line in the sand.

"Are you going to convict Jack Bauer?" Judge Scalia challenged his fellow judges. "Say that criminal law is against him? ‘You have the right to a jury trial?’ Is any jury going to convict Jack Bauer? I don’t think so.

Just as a brief reminder I'd like to post this ...

The Abu Ghraib rules, promulgated by Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, the commander of ground forces in Iraq, elaborated on the interrogation rules for Guantánamo Bay, which had been issued by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld; they were designed to create far more license than restriction for interrogators who sought to break prisoners. The M.P.s at Abu Ghraib were enlisted as enforcers of such practices as sleep deprivation, sexual humiliation, sensory disorientation, and the imposition of physical and psychological pain. They never received a standard operating procedure to define what was required and what was allowed, but were repeatedly instructed simply to follow the guidance of Military Intelligence officers. An orthodox standard operating procedure leaves nothing to the imagination, and as Megan Ambuhl settled into her job it occurred to her that the absence of a code was the code at Abu Ghraib. "They couldn’t say that we broke the rules because there were no rules," she said. And by taking pictures of the prisoners on the M.I. block the M.P.s demonstrated two things: that they never fully accepted what was happening as normal, and that they assumed they had nothing to hide.

By way of orientation, the soldiers of the 372nd who were assigned guard duty at the hard site were given a tour of the place. They saw the ordinary cellblocks for Iraqi criminals and the highly restricted M.I. block, where the most "high value" security detainees were held, during and pending interrogation, in single-occupancy cells. "That’s when I saw the nakedness," Javal Davis said. "I’m like, ‘Hey, Sarge, why is everyone naked?’ You know—‘Hey, that’s the M.I. That’s what the M.I. does. That’s the M.I. thing. I don’t know.’ ‘Why do these guys have on women’s panties?’ Like—‘It’s to break them.’ " Davis was wide-eyed. "Guys handcuffed in stress positions, in cells, no lights, no windows. Open the door, turn the light on—‘Oh my God, Allah.’ Click, turn the light off, close the door. It’s like, Whoa, what is that? What the hell is up with all this stuff? Something’s not right here."

Your f***ing kidding me right?

nah ... there is more to this story ..

What made Scalia his role model ?

Perkins & Co. had every reason to believe Scalia was a top contender. On the campaign stump, Bush repeatedly vowed to fill Supreme Court vacancies with judges "in the mold of Scalia" or Justice Clarence Thomas, meaning strict constructionists who favor a literal reading of the text of the Constitution. Bush's promises -- he even declared Scalia to be his favorite jurist -- combined with a year-long charm offensive by the usually irascible Scalia, led many to believe that the famously argumentative justice had a good shot to replace Rehnquist. After all, Scalia ranks alongside Rehnquist as one of the key intellectual architects of contemporary conservative legal philosophy. Both men fought lonely battles against the prevailing liberal jurispudence in the 1960s and 1970s, lived long enough to see their principles prevail over the past two decades -- and became heroes to the Right.

In fact, the 69-year-old Scalia was never on the short list, say sources close to the White House. His age, combined with his combative personality, a raft of controversial opinions, and the messy realities confronting a politically weakened President, conspired against him. By making Roberts chief, Bush has to go to the Senate for confirmation only twice -- once each to replace Rehnquist and retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, but not the third time that would have been required to O.K. Scalia's elevation to the top spot. With Bush's approval ratings at an all-time low, the President seems ill-inclined to risk his limited political capital on a knockdown struggle over Scalia.

Ughh ... what's with these Reups?

I digress ... my apologies ... let's move on ...

Here's some audio you may be interested in.

It seems to me, like his job is to interpret the constitution.
ehh?
Or is it his job to interpret the consistitution, in ways that benefit his own ideology?

look at this.

WTF folks!

My friend Scott is as close to me as any brother, indeed I consider him my brother.
Your damn right we have an interest in voting Hillary if she steals this.

If I know one thing ... she won't appoint assholes like this guy.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/...

No matter what happens ... we have to stick together.

This BS can't stand.

Scott is right ... this could get ugly in convention.

But we can't forget our core Democratic principles.

We HAVE to do what is best for our country.

Even if that involves plugging our collective noses.

IT"S JUST TOOO DAMN IMPORTANT. SAY NO TO BUSH'S THIRD TERM, NO MATTER WHAT THE COST.

Tags: Clinton, Obama, McCain, Bush (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 35 comments

  •  Tips if my comments are welcome. (7+ / 0-)

    Did Bush promise to appoint a justice like Scalia?

    Damn right!

    But see how it plays on media matters back in 2005!

    We are being played from all angles ...

    We have to save the supreme court at all costs.

    http://mediamatters.org/...

    oh yeah ... and please vote Obama.

  •  Luckily (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    AbsurdEyes, jre2k8, humphrey, lyingeyes

    the likelihood of even having to contemplate this scenario is very small. She will not win.

    And there we are, the beautiful; eating from TV trays, tuned in to Happy Days.

    by MBNYC on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:13:21 PM PDT

  •  I'll never vote for Hillary Clinton. (4+ / 0-)

    I'll never vote for McCain either.

    I've got standards and ethics that are more important than political expediency.

    Don't want to sacrifice the Court?  Fine.  Then don't put me in the position to vote for Bush Lite or Bush III.

    I'm sick of this fucking shit.  I'm sick of voting for decrepit machine politicians who pander with the ease of eating a Twizzler.  Fuck it.  I'm done.

    Go ahead and nominate Hilldemort.  Go ahead and play political chicken with me.  I won't fucking blink.

    This message has not been approved by the corporate media.

    by jre2k8 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:15:33 PM PDT

    •  At least tell me (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      AbsurdEyes

      you're in a "safe" state, one way or the other. :)

      "Don't falme me pleas."

      by socratic on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:18:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not voting for hate mongers; (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        IhateBush, jre2k8, lyingeyes

        I am not voting for people who offer, as a joke or whatever, to incinerate Iran with nukes -- what a truly horrific thought, how can it even enter one's mind without causing convulsions?  Why Hillary (and McCain's) war mongering threats to Iran isn't front page news I don't know; then again, when we were down there protesting the Iraq invasion the MSM had us pained as a few pinko-wackos.  Hillary gave speeches about how "tough" it was to raise her arm, sending 4K american soliders and over one million Iraqi's to their grave.   Truly horrific.  And these are our options?  Our hope for the presidency?

         LORD PLEASE HAVE MERCY

        •  I don't really disagree (0+ / 0-)

          But I think that McCain is definitely bad, while Clinton can be persuaded with polling or whatever.  Note: can.  I still think she's a worse option than Obama but she's still better than McCain.  

          On the other hand, it's looking like Obama is our nominee, barring some backroom dealing that could shitcan the election anyway if it happens.  So I hope we can focus hard on McCain and how bad he would be as president.

          "Don't falme me pleas."

          by socratic on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:30:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Well, it'll be a safe state for McCain (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        socratic

        if Clinton is the nominee.

        This message has not been approved by the corporate media.

        by jre2k8 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:34:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Vote Nader (0+ / 0-)

      Seriously. If Hillary gets nominated, that's what I'm going to do. Nader recognized in 2000 what we are only just waking up to: that there is no substantial difference between some Democrats and the Neocons.

      Army 1st Lt. Ehren T. Watada, Lt. Cdr USN Matthew Diaz, SPC Eli Israel: true American heroes.

      by sdgeek on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:00:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  re: sdgeek's comment (0+ / 0-)

        there is no substantial difference between some Democrats and the Neocons.

        I disagree with you on this point. How can you argue that there's no difference between Senator Clinton and McCain on issues of reproductive rights, Health Care (!), civil rights, economic policy, taxes, labor law, etc?

        Claiming that they're "all the same" is a huge oversimplification.

        And voting for Nader - because that worked out so well in 2000?

        •  The problem 2000 wasn't Nader (0+ / 0-)

          The problem in 2000 was the same as it is today: too many Democrats are really Republicans in disguise.

          The Democrats needed the lesson of 2000, and looking at "off the table" Pelosi, I suspect the Dems still haven't learned the lesson.

          Nader is simply the fool who dares tells the truth when nobody else will.

          Blaming Nader is just shooting the messenger.

          As for your other points (or maybe they are really all the same point):

          - Reproductive rights is a false litmus test. Keep in mind that fewer people identify with pro-choice than support Bush (and even fewer are pro-life). The vast majority is somewhere in the middle ground.

          - Health Care. I believe it when I see it. Same thing with labor law.

          - Civil Rights. OK, I agree with you on that. Although the Dems are only marginally better on that. "Off the table" Pelosi has shaken my faith to the core on it.

          - Economic policy, taxes. OK, I agree with you on that.

          Army 1st Lt. Ehren T. Watada, Lt. Cdr USN Matthew Diaz, SPC Eli Israel: true American heroes.

          by sdgeek on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:41:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Sorry, can't vote for her, but don't worry... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    lyingeyes

    if she's the candidate (somehow), she'll win.  I never vote for the right person, ever; whomever I vote for, loses.  So don't worry, should Obama get the nomination stolen from him, and if I vote for McCain (content of character versus Hillary's "phonyness"), Hillary will win.  She'll spend 4-8 years solidifying the divide between red and blue, and we'll be no closer to a unified country because of her Bush-like style of "leadership".  

    "The man and the hour have met!" Ladies and gentlemen, the next President of the United States, Barack Obama!

    by PittsburghPete on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:16:45 PM PDT

  •  Why Would Hillary Be Different (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sdgeek

    Why would Hillary be any different then McCain?

    She is basically just pandering to the racists to get elected.

    She has not told the truth once in this entire campaign.

    She is getting her talking points from Hannity, Rush and Scaife.

    So why should I vote for Hillary.  I won't.  

    I will stay home.  

    What I am seeing today is.  There is a race problem in this country.  And you are seeing it today in the so-called liberal blogoshpere.

    •  re: SonnyTufts comment (0+ / 0-)

      Why would Hillary be any different then McCain?

      Do you seriously mean that? Do you really think that there is no difference between Senator Clinton and Senator McCain? What about the issues of reproductive rights, economic policy, environment, gay marriage, health care, etc ?

      I'm not in any way saying that I think you should support Senator Clinton if you disagree with her. I just think that the consequences of this election are far too important to leave to McCain, who we know will be an almost identical continuation of Bush.

  •  Dems will unite (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DrMicro, natalie902

    If Hillary won the nomination, I can imagine dKos fighting for her.  If Obama wins the nomination, MyDD will do the same for Obama.  It won't happen immediately, but time will heal the wounds.

  •  I live in Pennsylvania (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sdgeek, Pazuzu

    if you force me to vote for the lesser evil between Clinton and McCain, I'll go McCain.

    John McCain's Something for Everyone Plan: Military draft for youth, SS benefit cuts for elderly, Middle Class destruction, stock market plunge for wealthy.

    by IhateBush on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:33:30 PM PDT

    •  re: IhateBush's Comment (0+ / 0-)

      if you force me to vote for the lesser evil between Clinton and McCain, I'll go McCain.

      You're joking, right?

      •  No I'm not (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        sdgeek

        my view of McCain which was fairly high has declined substantially as he has proved himself to be a jerk recently with his cheap shots.
        But it is still higher than my view of the Clintons.  I'm not going to vote for McCain, but I might still vote against Clinton.

        John McCain's Something for Everyone Plan: Military draft for youth, SS benefit cuts for elderly, Middle Class destruction, stock market plunge for wealthy.

        by IhateBush on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:54:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  re: IhateBush's comment (0+ / 0-)

          Okay. Are you an Independent voter? I'm just curious.

          Although I also see flaws in Senator Clinton, I also see a huge difference between her and Senator McCain, such as on issues of reproductive rights (abortion, birth control), economic policy, taxes (progressive taxation vs regressive), civil rights, labor policy, health care (BIG issue for me) etc.

          These issues have a huge (and direct) impact on me, my family, my friends, and millions of other people throughout the country. Having Senator McCain as President would only cause harm.

          •  You can write off health care (0+ / 0-)

            I'm fairly sure it's going to be the first thing to be jettisoned in the spirit of "bipartisanship". BTW, I suspect that it's going to happen regardless of whether it's Hillary or Obama.

            And, to be honest, I don't see much progress coming on any of the other policies, either - nor much damage from McCain.

            Army 1st Lt. Ehren T. Watada, Lt. Cdr USN Matthew Diaz, SPC Eli Israel: true American heroes.

            by sdgeek on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:06:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  re: sdgeek's comment (0+ / 0-)

              And, to be honest, I don't see much progress coming on any of the other policies, either - nor much damage from McCain.

              You don't see McCain doing any damage on reproductive rights? Are you kidding? It is extremely likely that abortion will be outlawed (either from having Roe v. Wade overturned or from a piecemeal approach), access to birth control will be greatly diminished, the Morning After Pill could be outlawed.

              Senator Clinton has a great record on these issues. And  as a woman, they matter a lot to me.

              •  Reproductive rights is not a big issue w/ voters (0+ / 0-)

                It may matter to you, and that is certainly a valid criterion for you to select whom you vote for.

                That said, I would be extremely surprised if abortion was actually outlawed. First of all, it's not all that high on the radar screen of the left or the right. Second, the worst I'd expect is a few minor restrictions.

                For most people, this issue is just not going to actually make a difference. Polls fairly consistently show that pro-choice has only around 25% support - less than Bush's approval rating. Pro-life is only around 21%. Most people seem to feel most comfortable with a middle-of-the-road approach, and might actually embrace certain restrictions.

                And that's true regardless of where you or I personally stand on the issue.

                Army 1st Lt. Ehren T. Watada, Lt. Cdr USN Matthew Diaz, SPC Eli Israel: true American heroes.

                by sdgeek on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:49:54 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  No I'm a strong Democrat (0+ / 0-)

            who has never voted for a Repub in my life.  I consider the Clintons to be totally corrupt, selfish, and having not one iota of character.  The sense of entitlement that they have shown, i.e. that the Presidency is their fiefdom that they share with the Bushes is staggering.  I hate them almost as much as I do W.  
            This lack of character, for many years I totally ignored, while defending them many times.  But their ugly race baiting campaign against Obama has brought it out in full color, and in retrospect, it was the Repubs that were right about the Clintons character.

            I will do what it takes to prevent these people from going back to the White House.  They are really really awful people, who care only about themselves, not the party or the country.  Loyalty is a one way street for them (assassinating Bill Richardson's character, while betraying blacks), they show no shame in hypocrisy (note FL/MI), and they take special enjoyment in destroying their opponents with gutter level politics.

            It was these kinds of stuff was a large reason why I hated W as much as I did.  I never thought I would see these tactics outsourced to my Democratic Party.

            John McCain's Something for Everyone Plan: Military draft for youth, SS benefit cuts for elderly, Middle Class destruction, stock market plunge for wealthy.

            by IhateBush on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:12:41 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Nice try at what? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      natalie902

      Common sense?

      I do not wish to see the Supreme court handed back to fascists.

      There is a threshold where the lesser of two evils must be considered.

      •  So you trust Hillary with SCOTUS? (0+ / 0-)

        Who is to say that she won't appoint another John Roberts or Sam Alito? I don't trust her any further than I can throw her.

        Army 1st Lt. Ehren T. Watada, Lt. Cdr USN Matthew Diaz, SPC Eli Israel: true American heroes.

        by sdgeek on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:03:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  re: sdgeek on SCOTUS (0+ / 0-)

          So you trust Hillary with SCOTUS? Who is to say that she won't appoint another John Roberts or Sam Alito?

          I don't see any evidence that points to her appointing an Alito or Roberts. Bill Clinton's appointments have been the saving grace of this court. I don't see any reason to think that she would pick judges much different than those Bill Clinton chose.

          •  Triangulation (0+ / 0-)

            The political scenario was different during Bill's reign, and Hillary is too much of a triangulator in my mind to be convinced.

            Army 1st Lt. Ehren T. Watada, Lt. Cdr USN Matthew Diaz, SPC Eli Israel: true American heroes.

            by sdgeek on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:42:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  People who threaten to vote for McCain if (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DrMicro, john07801

    their Democratic Candidate doesn't get the nomination make me sick. It's the equivalent of a five year-old sticking his fingers in his years, stomping his feet, and singing "na-na-na boo-boo".

    Voting for McCain over the Democratic nominee is not only childish, but it is selfish and harmful to the country as a whole.

    •  And Hillary hasnt been childish and selfish and (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Pazuzu

      harmful?  Just giving her a dose of her own medicine.

      •  re: lyingeyes' comment (0+ / 0-)

        Just giving her a dose of her own medicine.

        How old are we? This election is so important - its outcome will directly affect the lives and wellbeing of millions of Americans. In my opinion, it is way too important to get into petty name calling.

        I'm not arguing that you should support Hillary if you don't agree with her. I'm just saying that this election is too important to throw it to Senator McCain just out of spite.

    •  Hillary will do anything to get elected (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      natalie902

      We know that.

      On the other hand, McCain will seal Bush's Presidential papers and we might never know the true depths of their malfeasance and illegality.

      McCain has no choice.  He's always been a front-row enabler and conspirator.

      (-7.75, -7.69) No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up - Lily Tomlin

      by john07801 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:40:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm saying NO to Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    IhateBush, sdgeek, DrMicro, lyingeyes

    Enough with the name brand dyNASTY presidents.

    I despised Bush, Jr. from the start because he thought he was entitled to be President, that he already was President, and that the voting was just a formality.

    Eight years later, Hillary is doing the same goddamn thing.

  •  Go ahead vote for McCain but when (0+ / 0-)

    he reinstates the draft, don't complain when your children are drafted.  I have two sons in their 20's and will NEVER vote for McCain.

Permalink | 35 comments