Daily Kos

The Times they are A'Changing?

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:23:03 AM PDT

The traditional media gets a lot of knocks in the blogosphere these days. But they bring much of it on themselves with their endless complicity in serving a far right-wing agenda. Glenn Greenwald has a new book coming out soon which takes this on directly:

Glenn Greenwald -- The central paradox of our political life is that the right-wing faction that continues to dominate our political institutions and win elections embraces fringe beliefs which have little popular support. That's why their overarching objective is to remove substantive considerations from our political debates ... An aggressive campaign to demonstrate how absurd and destructive are these right-wing leaders, how deceitful is the media's personality-based glorification of them, is absolutely necessary.

What better place to start exposing the right-wing media infestation than the Washington Times? This newspaper was founded in 1982 by cult leader Sun Myung Moon and his second in command Bo Hi Pak. It has lost about $3 billion to date and according to the Wikipedia,  is only still in business because of a subsidy from News World Communications, Inc., described by the Columbia Journalism Review as "the media arm of Reverend Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church." As business ventures go, a three billion dollar loss doesn't appear terribly attractive (So much for that 'free market' conservative magic, huh?). But as a propaganda appendage of the Moonie/GOP empire, it's worth every penny. Here's just a few of their greatest hits courtesy of John Gorenfeld and his new book chronicling Moon's antics, Bad Moon Rising:

In 1988 the Washington Times started a rumor that Michael Dukakis was mentally ill, inspiring Reagan to joke, "I'm not going to pick on an invalid." Wash. Times, "Dukakis kin hints at sessions," August 4, 1988.
In 1992, it pushed the story that Clinton might have been an agent of influence for the KGB while traveling as a Rhodes scholar. Wash. Times, "Clinton Can't Recall Much of Soviet Trip; Unable to Give Details," Oct. 6, 1992.
In 2007, its sister publication Insight was the first publication to print that Barack had attended an Islamic Madrassa. "Are the American people ready for an elected president who was educated in a Madrassa...?" Lead from a January 17, 2007 article on Insight Magazine that was cited by CNN. - John Gorenfeld

Based on past performance, it's a fair bet that the Washington Moonie Times will publish more negative nonsense this election cycle and that those hypothetical fabrications will then be magnified by wingnut hate radio and neocon bloggers. What is unknown is why otherwise legitimate media venues continue to enable the media appendage of an ultra conservative cult leader with a national, credible platform, without so much as a ticker to viewers that it's coming from a paper controlled by whacked-out extremist right-wing religious maniac, who has proclaimed himself the Messiah and claims to channel dead American Presidents. If and when the next political hit piece does appear in the Moonie Times, how will the traditional media react? Will they once again fall into that comfortable, familiar trap? Or will they finally, this time, not play the helpful fool, and instead turn and do a story on the Washington Times' agenda in pushing Moonie bullshit? We'll know soon enough, if the times really are a'changin.

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Permalink | 191 comments

  •  Many (35+ / 0-)

    Thanks to my good friend J for the secret onsite, super rapid proof read!

    When members of the progressive blogosphere appear on cable news, it's not uncommon that they're often introduced or referred as, "Jane Doe, founder of the liberal website X." Or "Who writes for the left-wing blog X." Fair enough. But why are writers and editors from the Moonie Times not introduced with a similar right-wing quailfier? In fact, maybe we could create an placard/image for them, open source style, to help out our traditional media outlets.

    Read UTI, your free thought forum

    by DarkSyde on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:23:45 AM PDT

    •  It's Hardly Unknown (13+ / 0-)

      What is unknown is why otherwise legitimate media venues continue to enable the media appendage of an ultra conservative cult leader with a national, credible platform, without so much as a ticker to viewers...

      The MSM are large corporation owned by people who benefit from the Conservative agenda. It's as simple as that. They learned a long time ago that they don't need to engage in much real journalism to keep their share of the market; on the contrary, it seems that market share rises with punditry and entertainment.

      This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

      by Mr X on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:27:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes but (14+ / 0-)

        the people who work for those large corporations are human beings, and somewhere at the bottom of every human being there is a soul and a conscience. Somewhere at the bottom of every hack journalist is a still, small voice saying "How can you churn out this drivel? Have you no self-respect?" The hope is that will a little help and encouragement from critics like Glenn Greenwald holding the mirror up in front of them, joined by a chorus of complaints from discerning consumers of MSM swill, that that still small voice will get louder and more authoritative until the hack journalist rises up in his or her socks and says "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more." Then like Bullworth he or she can embark on a truth-telling rampage. American journalism is due for a mid-life crisis.

        "Your point. Their village." --Zhivago to Strelnikov

        by ailanthus on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:56:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Reality is That... (5+ / 0-)

          The people working for the MSM who get the megaphone have to boost ratings or circulation while not pissing-off the owners. Anyone who gets too much attention while rebeling against the owner will either change their tune, get demoted to a less visible position, quit or be fired.

          Owners like Sun Myung Moon would rather lose money in that part of their empire and keep the propaganda.

          This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

          by Mr X on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:07:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's pretty simple (8+ / 0-)

            It's all about self-interest. Greed (or if you prefer putting a nice, socially acceptable gloss on it, call it "career aspirations").

            Why are so many seemingly respectable journalists who came up through the ranks at real journalistic institutions such as NPR perfectly willing to jump to Fox?  The answer is the same as why they tolerate the moonie paper:

            It's a job.

            There aren't THAT many jobs in "journalism" (I'm using the term loosely here). Fox or Moon pay as well or better than "real" journalism jobs.  But most of all, they pay.  And they provide visibility.  See mom and dad? I'm a famous journalist!

            For someone who decided that they "want to be a reporter when they grow up", the odds of actually landing a paying gig at something larger than the County Gazette are pretty slim.  There's a lot of would-be "reporters" who major in "communications" or some more specific program in college whose aim is to nail down a job as a news anchor. The chances of that happening are about the same as the chances of your average kid with a guitar has of becoming a top-of-the-charts rock star, or the chance that somebody who "likes to paint" has of becoming the next Picasso. They go to school, they tell their family their dream is to be a famous journalist. But it becomes pretty clear pretty quickly that there are many thousands of people with that same dream and only a small handful of paying jobs that even come close to the picture that they had of what they would be doing someday.  

            Some of these people will quit the business. The more physically attractive ones go into TV (the number one qualification for any work on-camera). Those with beautiful voices go into radio. Those who were not born with such gifts might try writing (although these days, that's not considered very attractive - not as much glory). But few get a chance to work in any job that even comes close to what they had hoped for. This isn't so different from a lot of career paths -- you have a chance at what appears to eb a great gig, and you don't worry too much about the details, you go for it. That's capitalism!

            So you have manufactured institutions come along like Moon or Fox.  Few apiring "journalists" who are desparate for "their big break" can resist the lure: high profile jobs, big pay, "fast track".  Those "journalists" who might not be quite so desparate (i.e. already fairly well employed) also know that the business is fickle, and that there are few jobs. Why try to destroy an outlet that might one day be your paycheck (newspapers close, stations reorganize, people get replaced by someone with better hair, etc.)?

            Why do people tolerate nut-job propaganda organs like Fox and the Moonie Times? For the same reason that most everyone (with few exceptions) are willing to appear on Fox....self-interest.  From Lieberman to Hillary to others, nearly everyone is willing to hold their nose and deal with the devil because of the lure of publicity/money/career/some other personal advantage is too great for most to resist. Who can resist the bright lights?

            It's a tough nut to crack. We live in a society where one learns very early that you need to do everything and anything to advance your own interests. When put in the difficult position where your own personal ambitions might benefit from dealing with a compromised benefactor, it shouldn't be a surprise that the comprosmiser often wins out.

            People figure they have families to feed, kids to send to college, golf to play in St. Vincent, etc., etc.  Moon's money or Murdoch's money will pay those bills better than Frontline's or Mother Jones'.

        •  Yes ailanthus, great comment! (5+ / 0-)

          We are in the mess we are in because individuals made choices...bad choices.
          Let's hope that journalists will listen to that voice of conscience and go on a 'truth-telling' rampage.

          At the core of the human spirit there is a voice stronger than violence and fear - S. dianna ortiz

          by Rachel Griffiths on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:50:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Well said! n/t (4+ / 0-)

          Read UTI, your free thought forum

          by DarkSyde on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:59:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  another factor is laziness and widespread (6+ / 0-)

        incompetence among journalists.  This leads to a "herd mentality."

      •  Unknown outside the expert class we represent (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Buckeye BattleCry, leftyboy666, mcmom

        The Moonhunt/Moonwatch agenda is all about cutting one of Cerebus's heads off.

        •  Said it before and I'll say it again... (6+ / 0-)

          Outside of media wonks like us, hardly anyone knows that the tyrannical '70s cult leader Moon is running around in '00 publishing the GOP's favorite newspaper.

          In the Beltway, people act like this is totally normal. In the real world, it blows people's minds...

          •  thanks, John, and DarkSyde too (2+ / 0-)

            to John for your years-long pursuit of this story, and to DarkSyde for bringing it to the DKos community.  

            I've been aware of Moon's role in the WashTimes (his creating it, that'd be) for some time, and just dumbfounded that it's been accepted as "credible" by so many who know better.  And of course, the story just gets more and more bizarre, the coronation, the Bush family connection.  On and on.

            When trying to tell people that I know -- people that should care -- about it, I felt they looked at me as being sort of paranoid.

            This exposure really helps.  I'll be carrying your book around; and promoting it, believe me!  

            Hoping for peace and understanding; wishing you the same.

            by WisCheez on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 09:30:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly (7+ / 0-)

      You took the words right out of my mouth. It's time for disclosure. There is a general sense that there are 2 Americas, but I don't believe it. This sense is driven by polarized "news". It's high time we know the men behind our information.

      Americans don't know shit about Moon. I blog and I don't even know. For a very long time progressive blogs took for granted that all bloggers knew about Moon. We don't. John Doe TEEVEE watcher sure doesn't. Hell, John Doe TEEVEE watcher is just now realizing FOX ain't real news.

      RIP USA, July 9, 2008

      by plok on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:52:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My Conservative friend, John Doe (0+ / 0-)

      I like the idea of making Conservative a dirty word.

    •  The Corporate-Controlled Media in Action (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      sbdenmon

      A biker is riding by the zoo, when he sees a little girl leaning into the lion's cage. Suddenly, the lion grabs her by the cuff of her jacket and tries to pull her inside to slaughter her, under the eyes of her screaming parents. The biker jumps off his motor cycle, runs to the cage and hits the lion square on the nose with a powerful punch. Whimpering from the pain the lion jumps back letting go of the girl, and the biker brings her to her terrified parents, who thank him endlessly.

      A New York Times reporter has seen the whole scene, and addressing the biker, says, " Sir, this was the most gallant and brave thing I saw a man do in my whole life."

      "Why, it was nothing, really, the lion was behind bars. I just saw this little kid in danger, and acted as I felt right."

      "Well, I'll make sure this won't go unnoticed. I'm a journalist from the New York Times , you know, and tomorrow's paper will have this on the first page. What motorcycle do you ride and what political affiliation do you have?"

      " A Harley Davidson and I am a Democrat. " The journalist leaves.

      The following morning the biker buys The New York Times to see if it indeed brings news of his actions, and reads, on first page:

      BIKER GANG MEMBER ASSAULTS AFRICAN IMMIGRANT AND STEALS HIS LUNCH.

      Change the media ownership laws and reinstate the Fairness Doctrine

      by moosely2006 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 08:57:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  no (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    leftyboy666, esquimaux, Rick Winrod

    Or will they finally, this time, not play the helpful fool, and instead turn and do a story on the Washington Times' agenda in pushing Moonie bullshit?

    Let them do it once, and maybe I'll start to believe.

  •  I would LOVE to get rid of EVERYONE involved in (6+ / 0-)

    that ridiculous crowning ceremony.  I'm looking at you, Danny K. Davis.

    Pragmatic progressivism is the future.

    by Pragmaticus on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:28:10 AM PDT

  •  I heard an interview with Gorenfeld (15+ / 0-)

    on the radio yesterday. He urges people to go watch this movie online:

    The King of America

    Inside the secret world of Washington Times publisher Rev. Sun Myung Moon; he arranged for himself to be coronated the "King of Peace" on Capitol Hill, with help from John McCain aide Charlie Black and members of Congress.

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:28:12 AM PDT

  •  Every Republican should be made to denounce (17+ / 0-)

    and reject the Moonie paper.

    That's how they'd play the game, anyway...

    JOHN McCAIN = George W. Bush's 3rd term.

    by chumley on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:29:40 AM PDT

  •  they only matter if we make them matter (6+ / 0-)

    BUT if we ridicule them and then dismiss them and keep talking about ISSUES this time around they will become meaningless to the debate...

    I watched this kind of thing happen yesterday when Senator Obama was on HARDBALL....  chris 'the moron' Matthews tried and tried and then kept trying to make an issue of rev wright but Senator Obama deflected his attempts and made them (and matthews) look foolish.

    this time 'its about ISSUES, stupid' and the washington times will find that out soon enough.

    The CONSTITUTION is MY Flag pin

    by KnotIookin on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:33:27 AM PDT

  •  moonie watch (6+ / 0-)

    time to put these folks into the ol' rss feed reader and track memes til they show up in MSM outlets.

    then we can pounce.

    meantime, my favorite part of the wikipedia entry on the Moonie Times is where it says that the WaPo is it's "chief competitor"...

  •  it is dismaying (13+ / 0-)

    to realize that 90% of the people who actually read the Washington Times probably do not even realize that it is owned by Moon.

    Tony Blankley is a Washington power circuit fixture, but how many people realize, seeing him on TV, that he works for the 'Rev' Moon?

    But we have to be relentless in ridiculing the media - Washington Times, Adam Nagourney, Jeff healy, Cokie Roberts, Chris Matthews, Tim Russert, 'Dean' Broder, Jeff Cohen, Tom Friedman, Maureen Dowd, David Brooks, the entire NRO set....

    By definition, anything they say about ANY democrat should automatically be suspect.

    Writing big diaries lending credibility to the rantings of Mark Halperin does not help.

  •  The answer, put simply, is... (5+ / 0-)

    ...That the appearance of legitimacy is more important than legitimacy itself.  The traditional media will bow to the moonies for this reason and this reason alone.

    Part of the problem is that the new media is for-profit... when the purpose of educating the public is to generate greenbacks, and you can do so whether you educate properly or not, and add to the mix that you can make more greenbacks printing propaganda...

    Well, in that kind of situation (which we have, or at least they presume that we have) it's no wonder why the traditional media operates the way that they do.

    The truth is literally bought and sold by power brokers.

    •  Yes (14+ / 0-)

      But if we are diligent we can crack that facade of legitimacy.

      Every reference anyone makes to Tony Blankley should be followed by the "who works for Cult Leader Rev Mooon"

      Don't call it the Moonie Times - too many people don't know what that means.

      Its the "Washington Times owned by cult leader Rev Moon who believes he is Jesus returned to earth"...

      Repeat...repeat...repeat

      Discredit, ridicule

      If you want something other than the obvious to happen - you've got to do something other than the obvious...Douglas Adams

      by trillian on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:42:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You're (8+ / 0-)

        exactly right. If I could give you five recs I would. We, menaing you, are the media now. We are new media, but media nonetheless. The time may come when I/we ask you to help us push a legitimate story on Moon into the national media discussion. Or to provide tips, and play part time reporter and help us run down leads. And believe me, Moon isn't going to go down easy, and the traditional media and political establishment folks who will be caught out in the open with their collective lips planted on his crazy ass aren't going to let it happen without a fight. So we simply cannot accomplish such a Herculean task as exposing Moon merely by writing an occasional piece on the front page of DKos. Not without follow through from you.

        In the word of Sean Connery in Capone, "Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do that? I'm offering you a deal. Do you want this deal?" ... Because, I'll make that deal when the time comes, if enough of you guys want it.

        Read UTI, your free thought forum

        by DarkSyde on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:58:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We shouldn't need to be asked (6+ / 0-)

          It needs to happen automatically ALL THE TIME, at the water cooler, on the sidelines during soccer practice, while waiting for the PTA meeting to start, shooting the breeze with a vendor, whatever ... and it doesn't have to be partisan.

          "It just bothers me that McCain's campaign is stacked top to bottom with big-time lobbyists, I think lobbyists already have too much power in Washington."

          "One of the things that worries me about McCain is his wife's drug problem,and with all the stress... I'd hate to have a President who is distracted by personal problems.  This is such a difficult time."

          "The relationship between the GOP and Reverend Moon and his newspaper really bugs me.  It's dangerous to be in bed with a crackpot.  I don't know why the GOP has let him become so powerful."

          "Really, you watch Fox?  I  hate that all the time they have folks on from Reverend Moon's newspaper.  I don't know how it is that a cult leader can own a major newpaper and have his workers appear on Fox all the time.  I'm just not into the cult thing and it bothers me."

          Drop the bomb couched as concern or worry, end with a statement with which most people can agree, give a rueful shake of the head and then move on, your work is done.

          Repeat, repeat, repeat.

          Death by a thousand pin pricks.

          If you want something other than the obvious to happen - you've got to do something other than the obvious...Douglas Adams

          by trillian on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:26:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly where I was going... (0+ / 0-)

          ...If you want to beat the moonies, and the neo-cons, you have to shatter the appearance of legitimacy that they thrive on.  I didn't say it quite like that, but it's in there.

          And you're completely correct when you say that when they go down, anyone tied to them is going down, too.

          Poison the root, kill the tree.

      •  I agree completely n/t (0+ / 0-)

    •  Appearance being more important (3+ / 0-)

      than existence became painfully clear in the last few years as we progressed from thinking the emperor has no clothes to realizing that the clothes had no emperor.  

  •  hit pieces (3+ / 0-)

    not only does the traditional media continue to fall into that trap, but they like the ease of repeating something that's simple, even when they know it's patently wrong.

    And this repetition is one of the reasons that worker related stories are hard to come by, unless of course they're union bashing.  

    The most important word in the language of the working class is `solidarity.'--Harry Bridges, longshore union leader

    by Bendygirl on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:37:26 AM PDT

  •  It is surprising that Chomsky has done (4+ / 0-)

    an extraordinary amount of work in this field and few really seem to have heard of him. Surely his books like Manufacturing Consent are must reads for anyone who wants to understand the mass media.

    A while back I found an MP3 of his Massey lecture Necessary Illusions online, everyone should take an ear to it, maybe even save the file. It is incredibly valuable.

    Listen to Noam Chomsky's Necessary Illusions. (mp3!)

    by borkitekt on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:40:03 AM PDT

  •  LOVE "Moonie Times"!!! We all should use it (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Buckeye BattleCry, simnyc, socks

    all the time...

    And where is Howard Kurtz on this?

  •  Check out the Orcinus blog (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    wystler, DarkSyde, WI Dem, wa ma

    with David Niewert for a very good rundown on Rev. Moon and other things peculiar. There is also a good shot of a new bumpersticker of a Darwinfish devouring a Christian fish symbol, along with a discussion of Jonah Goldberg's latest idiocy about the Darwin Fish being a symbol of intolerance and prejudice.

    •  The Anti-Christian Right (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Buckeye BattleCry, WisCheez, brein

      Rick Perlstein coined this great phrase when he asked what Dinesh D'Souza (author of The Enemy Within, in the liberals-are-teaming-up-to-betray-America genre) was doing speaking at a Moon conference this last year.

      Because while conservatives like Goldberg make all this noise about the Darwin fish, Moon is literally making speeches about how Jesus was a failure and why the cross should come down from churches...at Washington Times events!!!

  •  The brand new editor (4+ / 0-)

    of the Washington Times was on Washington Journal-C-Span this morning stating that he works from no ideology, that he is committed to fairness and balance (that sounds familiar)and that the WT would CONTINUE to be a center right paper. Unbelievable.

  •  What amazes me is that (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Buckeye BattleCry, ExStr8, sbdenmon

    evangelicals parrot many of these same lines. Do they have any idea that they come from a nut who thinks he's Jesus and opposes the very things they allegedly stand for?

    Fritzburgh An'at--Politics, Culture, and Whimsy from a Chipped Chopped Mind

    by Bob Quixote on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:46:21 AM PDT

    •  Well, (7+ / 0-)

      if not ... they're fixing to find out ...

      Read UTI, your free thought forum

      by DarkSyde on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:50:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Of course not! (3+ / 0-)

      As there only motivations are power and profit, things that are as diametrically opposed to the teachings of Jesus as you can get...

      I want my Two Dollars!

      by Ken in MN on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:54:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's true for the leaders (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Buckeye BattleCry, johngorenfeld

        But their followers would be horrified if they knew that they were putting the words of Sun Myung Moon in their mouths.

        Fritzburgh An'at--Politics, Culture, and Whimsy from a Chipped Chopped Mind

        by Bob Quixote on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:21:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Moon tells Christians how to vote (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          johngorenfeld, Bob Quixote

          Moon says many things people laugh at which turn out to be true in some form if you look. He is always saying he has to save or "restore" Christianity as part of his messiah chores for instance. He means turn them into a political force and promote all the extremism among them which we see in today's conservative Christian. Moon promotes the homophobes, authoritarians and theocrats among them.  He has played a role in molding today's right wing Christian into his image, imo.

          Anyway, you remember those "voter scorecards" which Moon operative Gary Jarmin helped pioneer? Well, in 1988 Moon printed up 30 million of them at no cost to the Bush 41 campaign. They were dropped in church pews all across the country. Now how do you tell Moon he is NOT leading or playing a role in guiding right wing "Christianity"?

          Read about the Moon front that produced the "scorecards" in this Frontline. You'll see that Moon supplied the cash and the "leadership" to the front.

          I have several posts on the Moon organization here

          http://www.dailykos.com/...

          "Sun Myung Moon had more to do with conservatism's rise to power than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

          by moonboots on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 12:55:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, your post intrigued me (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            johngorenfeld

            enough that I looked up Moon on Wikipedia, and was reminded that he owns UPI, too. So I immediately took UPI off the newswire portion of my blog (see the link below) and replaced it with Reuters.

            Fritzburgh An'at--Politics, Culture, and Whimsy from a Chipped Chopped Mind

            by Bob Quixote on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:54:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  fyi Moon and WIKI (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Bob Quixote

              I don't check it that often but do be aware that there are or have been at least two Moon followers who spend a lot of time "massaging" the Moon related entries. Once they claimed Moon did not teach Jesus failed, something he has said dozens of times. They even teach a game to the second generation kids at camp in which the kids try to build a 'foundation for the messiah' by stacking wood. When they get to a certain point, one of the elders knocks down the pile and says Jesus failed too. Last time I did look at WIKI, one Moon related page showed it was disputed so maybe WIKI has caught on but I wouldn't make it a prime source for more than names and dates.

              Btw, the Moonies have their own wikipedia now.

              http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/...

              "Sun Myung Moon had more to do with conservatism's rise to power than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

              by moonboots on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 02:35:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Many Christians are actually heretics (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Bob Quixote, socks, pelagicray

      in the context of their churches' traditional teachings, which is sort of odd. However, most churchgoers pick up little snippets of quotes that they like from sermons by preachers they like and weave them into their belief system.
      Few bother to even read the "Good News" and few bother with the "Listening Bible" while I believe almost none slog through one of the KJV editions with any sort of understanding.

      •  That's true (0+ / 0-)

        most churchgoers pick up little snippets of quotes that they like from sermons by preachers they like and weave them into their belief system.

        Reminds me of why I stopped going to my local Methodist church years ago. The preacher spent a whole sermon trashing Madonna and MTV, which are not mentioned in the Bible last I checked. And I couldn't believe how many people shook his hand on the way out and told him what a great sermon it was! I decided right then that I didn't have anything in common with those people.

        It's scary that a skilled minister can get people to believe that the Bible says just about anything.

        And as far as the KJV goes--what 21st-century English speaker can understand it? Maybe that's why extremists prefer the KJV--they can tell people what it means and nobody will call them on it.

        Fritzburgh An'at--Politics, Culture, and Whimsy from a Chipped Chopped Mind

        by Bob Quixote on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 08:17:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  asdf (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Bob Quixote

          And as far as the KJV goes--what 21st-century English speaker can understand it?

          That, my friend, is not an indictment of the faithful.

          It's an indictment of the condition of education in the nation.

          The next fantasy: Obama/Dean (please let it be)

          by wystler on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 08:25:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  "Christianity" as we see it in the religious (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Bob Quixote, brein

        right is much more about social/cultural "identity" than any Christian teaching. It is a popular form of the assumption of the religion by rulers to enforce control all through history. That "Christianity" is much more akin to this:

        The Spanish Inquisition was established in 1478 by Catholic Monarchs Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella of Castile to maintain Catholic orthodoxy in their kingdoms and was under the direct control of the Spanish monarchy.

         

        Than real Christians. I don't understand the acceptance of the supernatural among real Christians, those that know the actual teachings and follow them. I can understand the acts of almost foolhardy charity and kindness I've seen among some relatives following that path and denying themselves worldly things to work among poor and diseased unfortunates. And, yes, I've seen some avowed atheists do likewise.

        Among the crowd that we see most often yelling about their "Christian" belief mixed with hatred for others, with greed? That is all about a form of cultural/social identity "politics" and is deeply offensive to those following the path set out by the red letter (Presumed to be Jesus' words and printed in red in many editions.) New Testament.

        The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

        by pelagicray on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 08:23:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  You are right... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    truong son traveler

    There is a definite wing-nut slant to much of our journalism and that is a big problem. However, the bigger problem I see is that people seem to follow whatever they read or hear on the news. When an entire population is taught to follow authority, they tend to stop critically thinking  about so many issues.
    I believe this is the issue we have to tackle. We may not be able to control the information that's being put out, but if people can learn to think about what they are being told instead of blindly accepting it, I think we'd see a large amount of the populace becoming involved with politics and many other important issues.

    "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin

    by WI Dem on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:53:00 AM PDT

  •  The Times has a good sport section, though. (0+ / 0-)

    Not much of a resounding appraisal there, huh.  

    Barack Obama is going to be the next President of the United States.

    by LarsThorwald on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:59:45 AM PDT

  •  The worse part of this (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    snazzzybird

    is that the politicians are victim of their own Hyper Reality. How else can you explain the HUGE disconnect between them and The People on Schiavo?
    How else can you explain Hillary's obvious denial of reality? They are victims of their own game!

    Whenever you hear a politician say:

    The public is way ahead of us on this issue.

    What they are really saying is "our Hyper Reality has been breached I feel so vulnerable someone please help me."

    RIP USA, July 9, 2008

    by plok on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:59:52 AM PDT

  •  We can (2+ / 0-)

    always depend on the Bullshit Times for slime. They're very dependable in that way.

    Common Sense is not Common

    by RustyBrown on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:06:31 AM PDT

  •  Ritter (7+ / 0-)

    on the so-called "MSM":

    I think people need to recognize and understand that when you turn on TV [or] buy a newspaper, you cannot view this as a singular source of information upon which to base your own independent point of view — you’re getting propaganda.

    It’s not fatal to a society to have a biased media. Take a look at England, where they have a plethora of newspapers, all of which possess strong bias: All you need to do is put on your bias filter, and you can get to the kernels of fact. Here in the United States, we try to pretend that there isn’t a bias — you know, that it is "All the news that’s fit to print," that it is "Fair and Balanced." That’s garbage, and we need to understand that.

    The problem isn’t the media. The problem is in the consumer of its product, the people of the United States. The people are so lazy, so ignorant, that they delude themselves into believing that when they open up a newspaper, they are in fact getting unbiased reporting. And the end result is a malinformed public that cannot hold its elected officials to account.

    I'd rather be unhappy with President Obama than with President McCain.

    by kestrel9000 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:06:53 AM PDT

    •  But it goes beyond journalistic type media. (0+ / 0-)

      It goes deep into all media. For instance, the "dirty" fucking hippies of the sixties had no inherent desire to be repulsive. It is just that they were rejecting one of the hallmark booming markets of that time. That was the marketing of "new and improved" personal hygiene products at inflated prices, and the demand for such products being "enforced" at the individual level.

      If McCain makes the next Supreme Court appointment, we will think the Bush days were the good old days!

      by phaktor on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:25:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's not just the Times. It's AP, NBC, CBS, ABC,. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    socks, phaktor

    NYT, LAT, and a hundred other acronyms. Most are under the control, ownership, and/or, management of neocons, and/or, corporatists, who don't give a rat's ass about this nation. They are concerned about only two things: Money, and ideological propaganda dissemination.

    By and large, most share one thing in common: They are selling THIS nation out, and are traitors to THIS country and its Constitution.

    What I want to know, is when and how they are going to be held responsible for their part in the ongoing conspiracy to destroy this nation? When? Probably about the same time the Bush/Cheney regime is held responsible for its crimes, which is most likely, .....never.

    I want to see the MSM punished. I want to see the regime punished. I want to see the neocons put in stockades in the public square. I want all those who have conspired to harm this nation to pay for it, AS OUR LAWS PRESCRIBE. Why aren't our laws (including impeachment for crimes committed) being enforced? That's the biggest question of all.

    ..better that money be spent in the U.S. building windmills than squandered in the ME for Bush-McCain to tilt at them. -andydoubtless

    by Hornito on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:08:06 AM PDT

    •  Unfortunately, it will never (0+ / 0-)

      happen. They will retire in wealth and comfort. The best we can hope for is that their message will be discredited.

      If McCain makes the next Supreme Court appointment, we will think the Bush days were the good old days!

      by phaktor on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:19:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The huge problem is with CNN, CNBC, ABC, etc. (0+ / 0-)

      Disclaimer: this is a general rant, not meant to be read as being critical of Hornito.

      Anyhow:

      Corporate media owners and upstart indie media organizations will always be with us.

      And, sorry, the "good" newspapers, such as The New York Times, are a lot better than bloggers will admit. If you read the inside pages, op-eds and letters in the New York Times as well as the front page, you end up getting a wide range of news.

      And the fact that the Washington Times and Fox News are propaganda outlets is fine. Conservatives can have their media outlets, too.

      THE HUGE PROBLEM is that, aside from Air America, which has a lousy radio station network, and NPR, which is infested with pledge drives and has shifted to the right to placate the administration, there is very little actual middle-of-the-road news, let alone progressive news, on conventional cable TV channels after about 8 p.m., when most working people have time to watch the news.

      Fox News was supposed to be the answer to CNN. But CNN usually seems to be running some lame interview or talk show, and CNN Headline news is usually running more girls gone missing coverage. I enjoy watching Jim Cramer, with a grain of salt, but CNBC usually shifts to infomercials or game shows before I can see any news there. MSNBC usually seems to be running some old documentary when I tune to it.

      My guess is that a lot of Americans who care about the world come up against that same lack of moderate or progressive TV news sources and radio programming, so they end up watching Fox News because it seems put up decent news update segments between the hate talk shows.

      And the really tragic thing about this is that, even at Fox News, most of the people working on these shows range somewhere between Obama and James Webb in terms of politics. I'm sure a huge percentage of Fox News production people are Democrats.

      Possible solutions:

      1. We have to figure out a way to fund Air America better and knock heads together to help it get on a better network of radio stations. Is its current weak situation the result of incompetence or conspiracies? Either way: we have to help it.
      1. We need to persuade a major TV network to put up at least one conventional range cable news that offers progressive or middle-of-the-road current news all of the time. If the news shows feature some interview segments, fine, but the interview segments should come during a rundown of actual news, not be the sole focus of an hour of programming.
      1. In an ideal world, we should try to get CNBC to establish a 24-hour Keith Olbermann-ish channel that would feature talk shows and "just the facts" news updates around the clock.

      If we had all that, THEN we Democrats would get a fair hearing for our ideas. But, until that happens, we can't get a true fair hearing, because most people will have only a vague idea of what we're actually proposing.

      •  In my opinion the rot starts with (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Rachel Griffiths

        a shift of income for printed news away from subscriptions to advertising. Advertising income has always been important. What we now have is a shift so severe that the subscription/purchase source is really  just a number to be delivered as "audience" to advertisers. In effect the readers are just a commodity.

        This has always been the case with broadcast media. In the early days the news portions were modeled on the  better print media and the news departments were points of pride though not great revenue generators. That too has changed and "news" is now a division of entertainment--another attraction at the side show of delivering an audience to advertisers.

        Of course a factor here is the audience itself. A dumbed down, entertainment seeking population is ripe for delivery.

        The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

        by pelagicray on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 08:45:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But ad people & plenty of advertisers are D's, (0+ / 0-)

          so I think that's a cop out.

          In general, advertisers don't want coverage to be critical of them, and maybe not of the general idea of capitalism, but they're not the ones telling CNN to run girls gone missing coverage.

          CNN (or the Republican operatives who've infiltrated or corrupted it) are responsible for that.

          •  I disagree, with reason. (0+ / 0-)

            Advertisers are business people. That is how they live. Advertising is a business expense. Getting that advertising message to the largest group of potential customers is the goal and, frankly, most could care less if girls going wild is the choice the media uses to deliver large audiences. Right now there is an MSNBC ad on this site's front page. It isn't there because MSNBC thinks they need to support the site. They hope to reach some of the visitors and don't care a bit about political "color."

            Just as your or I might work for a "boss" not politically of our liking to keep ourselves and family fed, housed and clothed a business person will seek customers--regardless of political stripe or intelligence.

            The political leanings of advertisers is a minor factor, except in really outrageous cases, as to where they place the ad. A corporate advertiser is going to think business first for a business expense. There might even be a question of corporate responsibility to stockholders if they began putting political interests first for what is clearly a business expenditure.

            A personal business owner is in a similar situation, though slightly more likely to withdraw ads from a medium that is offensive.

            What drives the business now is numbers. What are your audience numbers? Aside from some small, niche, advertisers interested in a particular populations political leanings this is a numbers, mass market game.

            That is one reason Public Radio and Public Television are the last refuge of quality programming--and don't bother me with the cable pretenders. Those have good shows but they are quite obviously market driven with constant repeats after commercial breaks and skating away from really controversial subjects.

            The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

            by pelagicray on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 12:08:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But the mass audience hates CNN and likes (0+ / 0-)

              Fox News, and I think that's because, for all of Fox News's obvious faults, it does a decent job of covering real news. At least you can watch Fox News and find if an earthquake has flattened Los Angeles or something like that.

        •  Another idea: bring back Ted Turner (0+ / 0-)

          If it could be arranged for Ted Turner to buy back control over CNN, that would probably help a lot.

  •  The times they are (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DarkSyde

    a'changin, but not enough for any real change until we realize that the propaganda machine goes far beyond the programming which purports to be journalistic or news media. It has bored deep into the heart of entertainment programming, advertising, fashion, marketing, and every other aspect of communication which can be controlled and purchased. That is what the revolution of the sixties was all about. It was a wholesale rejection of the culture that was shaped and controlled by the new communication technologies of that day. Today is no different. For real change to happen, an ability to critically evaluate everything that is spread by mass communication must be cultivated. Unfortunately, so far, we only have half measures. If you reject their journalism, then they will simply turn to the products that you still buy and believe in to promote their ideology. After all, they own all of it!

    If McCain makes the next Supreme Court appointment, we will think the Bush days were the good old days!

    by phaktor on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:08:24 AM PDT

  •  Credible Sources (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    phaktor, WisCheez

    Unfortunately, the "main stream media" is too cheap/lazy to fully stock their newsrooms with credible reporters who are willing to publish the truth.  

    When you quote Newsmax and Matt Drudge, it's not unreasonable to expect the Washington Times to be considered a credible source.

    •  Years ago, when news was moved to entertainment (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      phaktor

      we began to see its demise as we preferred pretty anchors to journalists with actual experience. Uncle Walter would be in the mailroom of today's high powered MSM.

      •  The emphasis on physical beauty (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        wystler

        has altered the way everything is understood. It is difficult to convey the message of the Elephant Man if Brad Pitt has to play the role in order for anybody to watch it. Sometimes beauty (and the absence of it) is an important part of the meaning of an event.

        If McCain makes the next Supreme Court appointment, we will think the Bush days were the good old days!

        by phaktor on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:34:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's crowd control (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sclminc, phaktor, brein, OHeyeO

    What is most sinister about all this is that these right-wing media outlets actually do do some real journalism from time to time, just enough to give the appearance of legitimacy. But there's a collective message behind the messages that media illiterate audiences internalize without even realizing it. It's more than just propagating right-wing ideas. It's crowd control. People have often asked during the Bush years, "where's the outrage?" I think our media has done a lot to keep the population docile and complacent in that regard.

    •  The underlying message (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Rp

      you are talking about is the idea that if you obey, you will be spared. Ironically, there is some truth in that!

      If McCain makes the next Supreme Court appointment, we will think the Bush days were the good old days!

      by phaktor on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:17:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A new AP story about BO's church (0+ / 0-)

    http://breakingnews.nydailynews.com/...

    Where was this story 2 weeks ago? Will it make it to MSM?

  •  I think that their complicity lies more (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    TracieLynn, simnyc, DarkSyde, phaktor, WisCheez

    with corporate media and Wall Street, which are not necessarily the same as the wingnut neocon agenda.  These people are playing ALL of us.  No matter the affiliation or idealogy of any citizen of this country, most realize that the MSM is full of shit.  But I just feel the coruption lies in the corporate influence much more than any ideology.

    •  I agree (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      simnyc, WisCheez, brein

      that is a baig part of it. But my take is the media is not nearly so monolithic that that applies universally, at least in the sense that ratings can trump agenda. Ratings translate directly into revenue which means more money for everyone. There's a certain amount of internal inertia from top to bottom in any media company that forms up behind good ratings and increasing market share. That's at least one hot button to push and fight back with. More neutral and diverse outlets like CNN and MSNBC are experiencing a ratings boom, the progressive blogosphere is exploding; Fox Noise is not keeping up at all with any of it.

      Read UTI, your free thought forum

      by DarkSyde on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:36:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]