Daily Kos

India – Into the Maelstrom

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 12:07:50 PM PDT

After spending three weeks in India I find myself fascinated and repelled.  I have traveled all over the world and I can honestly say that this is the first time that I was ever impatient to get home.  Still, India is a fascinating country, if very hard to get to know.  It has the potential for greatness and an army of incredibly bright and dedicated people to get it there.  On the other hand, the problems are also legion.

The first thing I noticed (and could never stop noticing) was the trash.  As an American, you have no idea how much you have been indoctrinated with the "Give a Hoot, Don’t Pollute" mantra until you enter the city of Delhi.  On more than one occasion, I found myself in great distress for lack of a trashcan in which to deposit my refuse.  Where are all the trashcans?!  It eventually occurred to me that trashcans are a waste of time if there is no garbage man to empty them.  The poor simply scoop the piles together on winter nights and burn it to keep warm.  More than once we saw contented cows munching on cardboard boxes as if they were after dinner mints.

Elephants in India

Repeatedly, my travel partner and I improvised trash cans in our room because we simply could not leave stuff just "lying around".  Silly perhaps, but it offended our sense of order, so strong is our programming in that regard.

The second thing I noticed was the poverty.  I believe the term "abject poverty" was coined specifically with India in mind.  1 in 3 of the world’s poor people live in India, and I don’t mean poor like on welfare poor, I mean poor like the World bank definition of a dollar a day or less poor.  With that many people to raise up from poverty, India is in for a long haul, but I think they may get there, considering their GDP is growing by approximately nine percent per year.  That said, without significant investments in infrastructure, they are going to lag behind (China spends three times as much of its GDP on infrastructure).

Rural India

The last, and most shocking thing that I noticed crept up on me during the trip.  Having traveled a bit, I am often asked, "Where are you from?"  I usually say California, to which most people will say something like "Schwarzenegger, Hollywood, Disneyland, San Francisco, etc."  In India I got only blank stares, forcing me to nervously expand to "The United States," which only gets a perfunctory nod and half smile.

What finally occurred to me is that the U.S.A., premier exporter of CULTURE has not made any significant inroads into this part of the world.  Oh, they know who we are, but only in a general way.  They have not absorbed our music, movies, cuisine, or hobbies.  Generally, Indians have little interest in the U.S. except as a place where their second cousin works right now (as an engineer).

The only time I caught anyone’s interest was when I explained our highway system to some drivers and tour guides, "Over 100 kilometers an hour?!" they would exclaim in disbelieve.  "How does one get on and off a road that has EIGHT lanes?!"  I spent an entirely satisfactory lunch explaining the California highway system.

Camel in India

At the end of my trip, I was happy to go, chachkis in hand. The air pollution was attacking my sinuses, and the trash was grating on my western nerves.  That said, I can see great potential in this country with its own culture, its own religions, its own traditions, and its canny business sense.  Maybe I will go back in ten years and see what they have wrought.

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  •  Just a bit of a travelogue with commentary (13+ / 0-)

    Hope you enjoy.

    There are bagels in the fridge

    by Sychotic1 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 12:11:39 PM PDT

    •  Thank you very much for this. I loved it. (4+ / 0-)

      One request...could you please resize the pics to a smaller format?  They fill up my entire screen!

    •  C'mon ... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      AbsurdEyes

      Just Elephants, Camels and People in Costumes?

      The public demands that you include Naked Fakirs sitting on Nails, Snakes and Cows wandering the street!

      Obama for President, not for Messiah

      by Bronxist on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 12:44:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  thanks for this! (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Sychotic1, AbsurdEyes

      and for the pictures - I have to say, we went to India a few times while living in the neighborhood, and I found it a curious mix of all the things I liked best about Nepal, with some things that were just jarringly different.  Delhi is a good example - so incredibly wealthy looking compared to Kathmandu, but with the same poverty - but in a more hopeless feeling way somehow - that you see in the much poorer Nepal.  There were piles of trash everywhere in Nepal as well, but they weren't visible right after having had a $100 lunch in a posh hotel with women wearing designer labels and pearls, after having been driven up an amazingly beautiful tree-lined, and park-strewn boulevard past all the rich people's compounds and diplomatic areas where rents are high enough to put NYCity's to shame.  There was spirituality there, but much more materialism as well.  And while people were friendly, I found them more so and more open in Nepal.  I confess I'm not objective however - I fell in love with Nepal.  Anyway, India left me with an odd feeling at times, Delhi more so than other places, but it is a fascinating country, and well worth a visit.

      By the way, you're right to point out the amazing economic growth India's enjoyed in recent years.  But, a big challenge for both India and China will be rising inequalities, but I believe this is likely to be a bigger issue for China for a host of reasons to complicated to get into here.  

      (Sadly, in Kathmandu no longer.)

      by American in Kathmandu on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 01:23:20 PM PDT

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  •  I've visited India and I loved it (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DebtorsPrison, Sychotic1, AbsurdEyes

    I can't wait to go back. Bangalore and Goa were great.

  •  Nice thread (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DebtorsPrison, Sychotic1

    But I would disagree with you and say that the US has exported American culture to [urban] India.

  •  This made me homesick. (4+ / 0-)

    Yes, anything you can think of in India is upside-down from what it is here. It's physically difficult to live there and travel around in, unlike here. But there's something about the vibration that is elevating and wholly apart from the crass aspects of Western materialism so extant here. I'd characterize it as hard on the body but nourishing to the soul. In so many ways, India feels like home to me. My 4th trip there comes up this winter. I'm counting the days.

    •  Some of the things I saw were awe inspiring (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      DebtorsPrison, empathy, synductive99

      to say the least.  I met a driver that speaks five languages but cannot read.  I stood on hillside forts and looked out over blue houses as far as the eye could see.  I saw a palace that looks like it is floating on a lake and I ate some of the best food I have had in years (butter chicken for the WIN).

      There are bagels in the fridge

      by Sychotic1 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 12:30:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The floating palace near Jaipur? (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        DebtorsPrison, Sychotic1, empathy

        The one near the Amber Palace where the elephants take you up the hill? And the blue city of Jodhpur? Ah, now I am homesick!

        I cook Indian food several times a week. In ayurveda, there is a whole teachingl that focuses on curing certain illnesses by understanding one's body type and choosing spices accordingly, as well as being careful of whether the food is salty, bitter, pungent, sweet, etc. in its character as relates to one's body type. I've solved a lot of issues using the food pharmacy, not the chemical pharmacy.

        It is an enormously rich culture.

  •  Fascinating - I would have liked even more (5+ / 0-)

    I visited Delhi about ten years ago, and loved being there. I agree with most of your observations, but the thing that struck me most about the country is something you didn't mention, and that is the fascinating sense of age that I got from the place.

    I just returned from China, where my sense was of the old replacing the new, with sections of the old (The Forbidden City, the Summer Palace) being cordoned off and kept intact, while everywhere else the new was rushing in. In India it felt different, as if great ancientness and modernity were existing side-by-side, not always comfortably, but managing somehow to accommodate.

    I would go back in a heartbeat.

  •  thanks for the pictures (5+ / 0-)

    I don't know if you saw the best parts of India, For instance you have to see the back waters of Kerala, also, their infrastructure is in shambles and they don't have a sanitary system. But in India, reform always starts from the bottom and local politicians are mostly corrupt. Anyway, I am from India and I love all its quirkiness.

  •  me no like india (0+ / 0-)

    they're taking my jobs!  

    get your own jobs!

    "Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom" - Barack Obama

    by pacified on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 12:49:08 PM PDT

  •  India is fascinating but I disagree a bit (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DebtorsPrison, Sychotic1, MAORCA

    I spent three months wondering India, and there were lots of people who knew or were interested in American culture, also if you didnt notice the numerous knock-off items from the days when you couldnt import foriegn products (high-five cola with the coloring and label of coca-cola) Michael Jordan and NY Yankees stickers in the the Tuk- Tuk's, "super action" movies playing in village cneters at night

    I did like your mention of western order, the first few weeks of smog and trash and poverty were rough, and take awhile to get around

    Blogging about it doesnt make it all better

    by El Oso 73 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 12:51:26 PM PDT

  •  There are two Indias (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    anotherCt Dem

    The India of the haves, which is probably about 10-15% of the population. This is the India you hear about. This is the segment from which Indian professionals you'll meet outside India generally come.

    Then there is the 80-85% of India that is in poor shape. These folks have to work very hard just to feed themselves. Concern for the environment is not even there on their radar screens.

    Going to India as a tourist is barely the tip of the iceberg in terms of learning about the problems in that country. Try getting something done in India, as simple as getting a driver's license or a business permit. Corruption is RIFE.

    India also has the largest number of world's slaves. These are called bonded laborers or "bandhua mazdoor." Debts are inherited by children of the debtors, and it keeps them in bondage.

    And by the way if you think the electoral campaigns in the US are dirty, you'll find they pale in comparison to the "world's largest democracy." Electoral campaigns in India are, literally, murderous. Minority religions (Sikh, Christian, Muslim) and lower castes (Dalits) suffer the brunt of demonization and organized pogroms, which are phenomenally successful in drumming up votes for the two main parties (Indian National Congress and the BJP - the latter being a right-wing fundamentalist Brahminical orthodoxy party).

    India also has one of the dirtiest, creepiest human rights records on the entire planet. All the rhetoric about terrorism you hear from Bushco, is a movie minority communities in India have seen beginning in the 1960s and continuing to this day.

    The Indian establishment & their agencies abroad have done a great PR job of painting India as some kind of a leading light of democratic governance and justice. The truth is the exact opposite of that perception. There are few checks and balances - nominally there are a few steps ordered by courts or recommended by inquiry commissions, but the Indian state has perfected the art of wearing down the victims.

    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - Orwell

    by MAORCA on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 12:51:42 PM PDT

    •  Comment I'll never forget (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      DebtorsPrison, Sychotic1, MAORCA

      I worked in the school system with a woman whose husband was transfered to the US. This was a wealthy Indian couple - huge house, servants in a suburb. I mentioned to her that I had found City Of Joy engrossing, the poverty hideous (several decades ago - Calcutta), but I understand things have improved some. She looked at me vaguely, "oh right, Calcutta. Yes, I believe they are pretty poor there." And she looked bored. This was a lovely woman - but unless I read her wrong - she simply could not/would not relate to the have nots. This struck me because we were working with lower income kids here. She seemed compassionate, and yet..it was odd.

      •  Desensitied populace (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        anotherCt Dem

        What you observed is a routine phenomenon. That is the only way the haves can bridge the massive cognitive dissonance that would result from thinking about things. So you get desensitized.

        After living & working in mainstream India for a few months, rude new yorkers look like saints.

        During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - Orwell

        by MAORCA on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 01:24:37 PM PDT

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  •  A pity that one has to get to the comments (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DebtorsPrison, Sychotic1, soms

    in order to learn about whatever positive experiences you had.  Perhaps you should try a "safer" experience like Singapore next.

    India is just one country but it is more culturally diverse than all of Europe by almost any measure: languages, religions, etc...

    I saw the grandest of sites at India but it was the day to day things that I miss the most.  Sharing tea from a clay cup in a 2nd class bogie with 5 others.  Watching children play.  Watching graceful women in their saris of every color imaginable (and some one could never imagine) at the market.  A bouncy ride in a bicycle rickshaw to the train station.

    •  Put your money where your mouth is (0+ / 0-)

      The above is a standard talking point, a retort to any criticism of India. Notice how it lists charming micro-level incidents, while saying nothing about the elephant in the living room.

      My answer to people who make such claims is simple: if India is such a glorious place and life is so damn good over there, why don't you move (back) to India?

      Hundreds of thousands of Indian citizens HAPPILY give up their Indian passports and become citizens of developed countries EVERY YEAR. The few who go the opposite direction, do so only to join the haves of India. So please don't romanticize the whole of India. It is a deeply troubled country and experience of the diarist shows only the tip of the iceberg.

      During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - Orwell

      by MAORCA on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 01:16:10 PM PDT

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  •  I think we were lucky (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1, MAORCA

    We've been to India twice, both times as part of two month trips that also included Nepal and Tibet.  We loved it and long to go back...but I also completely understand how overwhelming and exhausting it can be.

    I remember our third day in Delhi, still feeling completely overwhelmed by it all.  The walk from our lower-midrange hotel near Paharganj into Connaught Place would leave us stunned with sensory overload, the people living and working on every sidewalk, the noise and chaotic traffic.  The logistics of buying train tickets and all to continue our travels still were daunting.

    What saved us was being approached by a travel tout.  Yes, that goes against everything I know about travel, every warning I've heard about travel, and anything I'd ever done in all my travels elsewhere...but this time it worked out.

    On both of our trips to India, we booked a car and driver to tour Rajasthan through their agency, Highland Travels.  It was surprisingly affordable, and with the transportation logistics taken care of, it gave us the confidence to explore on our own.  We still mostly sought out our own inexpensive hotels and restaurants.  In Jaisalmer, for example, we didn't see our driver at all for the three days we wanted to spend there...we just explored on our own.

    This hybrid arrangement of relieving ourselves of one aspect of the logistics of travel really allowed us to enjoy the trip, and to explore more than we probably would have on our own.  We became friends with the Gagroo brothers who ran Highland Travels as well, having dinner at their home a couple times.  They also helped find a doctor when Mrs. DebtorsPrison needed one.

    Looking at their website now, I can see that they've advanced a bit from the shoestring operation they had when we were there (1998 and 2000.)  They have a lot of package tours now, and I never like package tours.  Still, if they still also arrange semi-independent travel like we had, I highly recommend them.  They are friendly, honest and caring.

  •  Was in Chennai and Bangalore (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DebtorsPrison, Sychotic1, MAORCA

    about two months ago for my first trip to India.

    The aural memory I will never forget is of the incessant horn-blowing while people were driving a bicycle, moped, motorcycle, auto-rickshaw, car, truck, or bus was unbelieveable and ENCOURAGED.

    The culture shock came when the president of a large manufacturing firm told us about his son's recent engagement by way of newspaper advertisement.  The family put a notice for a bride in the Sunday paper and at 8:30 am that morning had received a call from a woman's family.  The son and daughter were discussed by the fathers as well as the family background of each. On that call it was decided the father and brother of the woman would come to visit the son's family that afternoon.  After the father and brother left that afternoon for return to their home they called to request the son and his father visit their home that evening for dinner.  After the dinner meeting was concluded so was the marriage arrangement....they married two months later.

    "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

    by JNEREBEL on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 01:19:01 PM PDT

    •  Oh yeah, I forgot the noise! (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      DebtorsPrison

      My roommie used earplugs and she was still quite crabby because of all the three a.m. horn blowing goodness.  Oh and a dog that barked for over an hour.

      I also noticed that people drive with highbeams on most of the time.

      There are bagels in the fridge

      by Sychotic1 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 01:51:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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