Daily Kos

What can stop Obama? (with poll)

by wayne204

Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:23:15 AM PDT

Yesterday, I wrote about the threat of Obama being swift-boated in November by Republicans and 527s using the Reverend Wright videos. I saw this as the greatest potential threat to an Obama victory (see http://www.dailykos.com/... )

But, as many readers commented, there are other threats out there, too, like...

...the patriotism issue, being liberal, lack of experience, failing the commander-in-chief test, and the flight of Hillary's disgruntled supporters.

Which will be the toughest challenge?

Take a second to vote in the poll, then comment on (1) what you think the biggest threat will be and (more importantly) (2) what we can do to neutralize it between now and election day.

Poll

What is the biggest issue standing between Barack and victory in November?

24%87 votes
13%47 votes
5%18 votes
7%26 votes
1%6 votes
1%4 votes
16%58 votes
26%92 votes
3%11 votes

| 349 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: threat, 527, general election, 2008, November, Jeremiah Wright, liberal, swift boat, bowling, Hillary Clinton, experience, flag pin, patriotism, race, racism, baby, babies, punishment (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 107 comments

  •  Instead of a diary on what can stop Obama (25+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    espresso, Sherri in TX, Plutonium Page, Spider Jerusalem, New Sweden, dc 20005, AlyoshaKaramazov, mayan, annan, elmo, valadon, irate, jhutson, Overseas, Pandoras Box, rainmanjr, KingGeorgetheTurd, ShadowSD, steve2012, christine20, wethepeople, SilenceISGolden, Little Flower, winsock, Wisteacher

    a great diary would be on what can stop McCain.

    Obama: "Because We Won... We Have to Win." 6/6/08

    by Drdemocrat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:33:33 AM PDT

    •  better idea (6+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      irate, jhutson, Overseas, koNko, Wild Starchild, pvlb

      plus there was no choice for he is going to win despite all odds.

      I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere ~ Thomas Jefferson

      by valadon on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:36:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  On what can Stop McCain (6+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Overseas, koNko, Pandoras Box, rainmanjr, Wild Starchild, Wisteacher

      I'd find it odd that Americans will vote for a guy that could be the oldest President ever to enter the White House.It's not only the age in itself (nothing wrong with being old) but the fact that with age it comes along some health issues. When I breaze the You Tube on McCain I often find senior problems in his statements. Often he has problems to find words and sometimes he mix up facts in what he says. That might just be sloppy speaking (but again a sloppy president when you can choose Obama!) and further on the physical health.

      NY Daily News has a take on that today

      Seventy-one-year-old John McCain has used his age mostly as a laugh line on the campaign trail, joking he's as "old as dirt" and has "more scars than Frankenstein."

      He is clearly rediculing his own age

      But Team McCain is quietly starting to get serious about confronting the age issue - it plans to convene an unusual meeting of the senator's doctors next month to answer questions about his health, the Daily News has learned.

      At the same time, the Republican presidential hopeful acknowledged last week that some voters may want extra insurance when it comes to electing a septuagenarian - most notably with his choice for vice president.

      "I'm aware of enhanced importance of this issue because of my age," McCain said.

      Age is no small matter for McCain, a Vietnam War veteran and cancer survivor who will be 72 on Election Day - making him the oldest President ever to enter the White House if he's elected.

      A Washington Post-ABC News poll last month found that 27% of likely voters said McCain's age makes them "less enthusiastic" about his candidacy.

      So it's proven that the age matter and could hit back on McCain right?

      I remember sitting here in Sweden watching an a Republican convent with people waving flip flop shoes mocking Kerry. Well, imagine a Democratic convent waving Botox signs et al.

      Who want a president that is "old as dirt" and might fall of the chair anyday soon, I'm just askin'.

      Here's the link to the article http://www.nydailynews.com/...

      by New Sweden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:47:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Agreed, but... (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      RonV, annan, koNko, Wild Starchild, wmdrpa

      ...that's the topic for another diary. For today, I'm working on the "best offense is a good defense" theory.

      by wayne204 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:56:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's the same difference (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Plutonium Page, annan, koNko, Wisteacher

      cause the only thing that can stop Obama is Democratic disunity.

      When we get our ducks in a row -- whether by Hillary dropping out voluntarily or Obama kicking her tail in PA -- we're going on to victory in November.

      We've got the candidate, the message, the economy, and the issues on our side.  We fight together, we win.

      We fight each other, we lose.

      Yes, We Can

      by litho on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:11:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Turn the arguments on their face (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Overseas

      They ask, "Where's the pin?"

      We ask, "Where the Bill of Rights?"

      I'm more interested in libraries than lapels.

      Weapons of Mass Destruction Related Program Activities

      by wmdrpa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:43:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You should have included (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    koNko, rainmanjr, SilenceISGolden

    the famous quote often attributed to P. T. Barnum in your poll.  Something about suckers ...  

    by Uncle Bug on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:34:37 AM PDT

  •  A country sick of a pointless costly war (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Plutonium Page, rainmanjr, Wild Starchild, Wisteacher

    should elect Obama. Those that profit from the war, big oil and defense, will try to stop him.

    CHRISTIAN, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. A. Bierce

    by irate on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:45:25 AM PDT

  •  I've got your answers right here: (9+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    bumblebums, koNko, rainmanjr, Wild Starchild, wmdrpa, wayne204, winsock, Wisteacher, Fairy Tale

    I would say Wright and racism is #1.

    To combat this, I say circulate Obama's speech on race, and also we need to circulate and put on TV all the white pastors and ministers and attendees standing up for the church.  We cannot do that enough.

    Also to fight the racism we need to keep working to kill the Obama is Muslim meme by bringing up over and over that he's a Christian.  Yeah, it's annoying but very necessary.  25% of democratic voters voting against Obama believe he's a Muslim.  

    The patriotism thing will be big too.  The best way to fight it is to ridicule the flag pin issue to death.  Wearing flag pins on suits is the most ridiculous political issue I've ever heard of.  We must ridicule it constantly.  On TV.  The democratic party needs to send out a memo to everybody.  And when Joe Scarborough or some other asshole mentions it every democrat has to laugh his ass off, until the George Will wing of the GOP gets embarrassed enough that Will or Noonan or someone writes a column telling the GOP to shut up about it.

    So in summary, to ensure Obama winning in the fall:

    1. Bring out white people from Trinity to at least kill the meme that it is a 'hate' church.
    1. Bring up that Obama is a Christian to get the Muslim thing under 5% (It's about 12-15% now)
    1. Make fun of the flag pin issue constantly, to head off the patriotism attacks.  

    The democrats win on almost all of the issues every cycle, and this won't be different this year.   We just have to effectively counter the silly stuff.

    "There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it. Always." -- Mahatma Gandhi

    by duha on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:47:47 AM PDT

  •  Almost anything can be overcome EXCEPT (6+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Plutonium Page, litho, Larry Bailey, koNko, wmdrpa, wayne204

    the deepening division among Democrats between Obama and Clinton, and I don't see an indication of that situation improving if this site's relentless efforts to demonize Hillary are any indication.

    An interesting and informative article on the subject today:

    The Democratic Tribes at War

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/...

    by phoenixdreamz on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:53:47 AM PDT

    •  Academics vs. Fighters! (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      koNko, phoenixdreamz

      Thanks for the link. The division of academics vs. fighters is a fascinating way to look at this.

      So what can we do to bridge the gap?

      by wayne204 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:02:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  easy (0+ / 0-)

        we tell the whiny closet republicans to fuck off

        This article has been all over the republican blogs.  They use Zell Miller as an example of a Jacksonian.

        The overvaluing of phony patriotism is how we go lemming like into war after war.  We want to stop that, not pander to it.

        ---
        Fight the stupid! Boycott BREAKING diaries!

        by VelvetElvis on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:52:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's going to be difficult (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      koNko

      Yesterday I was trying to put out the argument that attacks on Hillary should be reduced and then I changed thread and found myself with Hillary saying that she was against the war before Barack Obama...

      If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

      by Fairy Tale on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:11:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My goodness, an original comment piercing thru... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      phoenixdreamz

      ...the echo chamber that DKos has become.  Thank you for that, but we don't know quite what to make of original thoughts here, so we revert to the warmth and security of another Hate-Hillary diary, another JEchoDReport, or another BagOfEchoes hit diary.

      Seriously, you've called attention to a very real potential problem for us, and what cruel irony that it came to this in a year in which we had TWO "dream" candidates.

      by Larry Bailey on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:14:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That problem phoenixdreams mentions (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        rb608, phoenixdreamz, SilenceISGolden

        happens to be a two-way street.

        Are you contributing to the problem, or to its solution?

        Yes, We Can

        by litho on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:15:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You are right (5+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Larry Bailey, rb608, koNko, phoenixdreamz, rainmanjr

        Many of us are acting like children (and I count myself in). Wayne raised a serious issue and we should focus on it. Let's leave alone Hillary and focus on the general election.

        If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

        by Fairy Tale on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:18:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  speaking about children (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          koNko, phoenixdreamz, rainmanjr, Fairy Tale

          I saw this about McCain:

          "The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill"

          Why not push this message out in Texas. Chet Edwards shown that this is an issue that can be hammered out in the lone star state.

          by New Sweden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:34:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Chet Edwards vs Arlene Wohlgemuth -the Children (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            koNko, rainmanjr

            In this race where the incumbent, Chet Edwards (D), was moved into a district with 2/3rds new territory. He faced a Republican challenger, Arlene Wohlgemuth, who authored the bill (HB2922) to cut the Texas Budget. This Resulted in:

            -163,000 Children Out from the child health insurance program

            -45,366 Children cut from the maternal and child health program

            -1,023 Children cut from services to At Risk children program

            -2,400 Children cut from the At Risk mentoring program

            -1,099 Children cut from the community youth development program

            -1,768 Families cut from the healthy families program

            -997 Families cut from the family outreach program

            -$1,000,000,000 Cut from K-12 education

            -2,946 Cut from the In Home and family support program for mental health

            -2,570 Cut from the community services for mental retardation program

            When asked how such women were expected to get treatment, Rep. Arlene Wohlegemuth, R-Burleson responded, "just out of the goodness of the American soul" (As a Swedish guy I just roll my eyes and put my tongue out).

            This Issue was covered Extensively and Acknowledged a Decisive Factor

            The Dallas Morning NewsChet Edwards shares lessons for fellow Democrats (11/10)
            "Texans-including conservative Republicans in my district-didn't buy into the idea of cutting 159,000 children off the Children's Health Insurance Program. Taxans understand that, but they won't buy a heartless approach."
            That was a major issue for Edwards against his GOP opponent, state Rep. Arlene Wohlgemuth, who sponsored budget cuts responsible for that action.

            Austin American-StatesmanOur pick for U.S House Edwards (10/18)
            "Wohlgemuth's most important work in the Legislature came last year in cutting a human services budget that, among much else, took away health insurance for thousands of children of lower-income but employed parents. Edwards is the better choice."

            SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS:

            McCain is heartless in his senior moments and I'm sure that Texans don't like that and Chet Edwards knows this.

            by New Sweden on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:29:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Obama's approach to this is best. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Wild Starchild

      Again, he has the right stategy.  Engage by supporting her right to stay in and letting the forces around him solve the issue.  Namely, the SD's.  He has faith that they will decide in his favor...and soon.  When enough of them do, the race is over.

      "I am here because of Ashley." - Unknown Obama supporter.

      by rainmanjr on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:42:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  that was funny (0+ / 0-)

      particularly the bit where he calls closet republicans "Jacksonions."

      Those people Are. Not. Democrats.

      ---
      Fight the stupid! Boycott BREAKING diaries!

      by VelvetElvis on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:49:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I fully agree with you (6+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    annan, rb608, koNko, no expert, wayne204, SilenceISGolden

    I think the Wright story will be used by 527 groups and we need to know how to counter attack. First of all we need to know more about Trinity and about Wright ourselves so that we are able to put it in context.

    Trinity held a press conference last Thursday where
    Rev. Dr. John Thomas, General Minister and President of the United Church of Christ, and Rev. Michael Kinnaman, General Secretary, National Council of Churches defended Trinity, and I have seen next to no coverage about it in the media.

    I intend to write a diary about it, but meanwhile I would like to indicate a couple of links:

    To the press conference:
    http://www.youtube.com/...

    And to a Trinity blog:
    http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/

    If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

    by Fairy Tale on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:02:20 AM PDT

    •  Thanks for the press conference link! (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      annan, koNko, Fairy Tale

      I knew about truthabouttrinity, but not about the press conference video.

      by wayne204 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:08:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Please do a diary on this. (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      rb608, koNko, Wild Starchild, Fairy Tale

      I agree with you Fairy Tale.

      This is the only coherent argument against Obama that I'm currently hearing in Indiana and it's the one I'm having the most difficulty countering.

      It's mostly coming from mainstream moderately religious voters who (in my opinion) haven't really learned to see the US objectively on the world stage. They still see us as the "good guys".

      And they also don't understand the latent underlying racism in their perspective. They seem THEMSELVES as the "good guys".

      It's a conundrum. Even two Obama staffers I spoke with yesterday seemed perplexed about how to hand this.

      I'll check your links. Thanks.

      "Let us not look back to the past with anger, nor towards the future with fear, but look around with awareness." James Thurber

      by annan on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:24:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'll put myself to it (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        annan, koNko

        If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

        by Fairy Tale on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:29:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Would you email me? (0+ / 0-)

          Fairy Tale, I really would like to read your take on this but I'm busy and may miss the diary. Would you consider emailing me when you post it? I can be reached at hoosierkossacks at earthlink dot net.

          Many thanks!

          "Let us not look back to the past with anger, nor towards the future with fear, but look around with awareness." James Thurber

          by annan on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:45:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I will, thanks for your encouragement (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            annan

            If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

            by Fairy Tale on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:49:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Great quote from the Trinity blog (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Fairy Tale

              Wow, Fairy Tale. Great link. Did you see this quote by a parishioner at Trinity :

              The Christian cross has two axes or dimensions, the vertical and the horizontal. Some Christian church leaders of conservative bent act as if issues like abortion and gay marriage, which are related to personal choice and personal spirituality (the vertical dimension of faith), are the only issues on which the church should act politically. Dr. Wright, however, is spiritually clear that Christians ought to pay attention as well to the horizontal dimension of faith, that is to issues of sociopolitical significance that affect more than one individual at a time – matters such as institutional racism and global warming that, when acted and legislated upon, positively impact millions and billions of persons at once.

              His is a holistic approach to the gospel. He is clear that the church must be concerned and vocal on any issues that affect persons’ spiritual, physical and emotional wellbeing and not just those that conservative churches have chosen to focus on.

              As a minister and parishioner, when I hear Dr. Wright speak out forcefully on issues of social justice, I always hear echoing in my spiritual ear the words and stridency of biblical prophets Micah, Amos and Jesus, who also bucked the status quo while speaking truth to power. When he speaks out from a biblical perspective on issues like employment discrimination, war mongering for oil profit (be aware that Pope Benedict XVI also opposes the War in Iraq), environmental racism, racial profiling and the like, I clearly hear the paraphrased words of these biblical prophets, who have intoned:

              "But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness as an ever-flowing stream." Amos 5:24

              "What does God require of you but to do justice, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?" Micah 6:8

              "Inasmuch as you have done it to the least of these, you have done it to me." Matthew 25:40.

              You have to write that diary!

              "Let us not look back to the past with anger, nor towards the future with fear, but look around with awareness." James Thurber

              by annan on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:37:06 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks very much! (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                annan

                There is really a lot to say. I'm starting off with the press conference but I will be following that with lots of other issues. Relative to the publicized remarks, even the HIV quote has an angle that can be argued, though this is probably the hardest.

                Thanks very much for your work in Indiana!

                If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

                by Fairy Tale on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:47:55 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Thank you for the link! (0+ / 0-)

                  I just fired this off to 2 dear friends who had expressed concerns about Obama & Rev. Wright.

                  Both are moderate, mainstream Presybterian Christians who just couldn't square what they had heard from and about Obama with what they were hearing about Rev. Wright.

                  This is great stuff. May I suggest that you write a series? Don't try to pack it all into one diary. Tease  out bits and pieces, give it a cohesive title and keep coming back to it.

                  In the first comment (write it before you publish and post it immediately after you publish) suggest that people hit the "subscribe" button on your diary if they are interested in seeing future diaries since you intend to write more.

                  Small successes lead to bigger ones!

                  Best wishes!

                  "Let us not look back to the past with anger, nor towards the future with fear, but look around with awareness." James Thurber

                  by annan on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:56:07 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  This sounds like a great viral e-mail campaign... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Fairy Tale

      Along the lines of the one in my sig. link.

      Proud to be everything the Right Wing hates!

      by Wild Starchild on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:26:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What is going on? (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Plutonium Page, annan, koNko, DWinFLA, Wild Starchild

    I have the distinct feeling that many Obama supporters just wish the Reverend Wright issue to go away. What do they think, that they can close their eyes, click their heels thrice and it will have disappeared?

    It's not going away. The lesson from past Republican victories was mainly that the we underestimated the threat from right wing blogs and 527's. Let's not do the same mistake again.

    If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

    by Fairy Tale on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:28:01 AM PDT

    •  I agree, it's not going away (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      koNko, rainmanjr, Wild Starchild, Fairy Tale

      Nor should it, really.  The so-called controversial statements by Wright have a great deal of validity, and rather than treat them like a millstone about our necks, we should bring them into the light and deal with why Wright made those statements and why and millions of others agree with him.

      There's no combating the inherent racism; the jingoistic and racist will not be voting Democratic anyway.  Instead, Obama's appeal to the rational and reasonable, to hope over fear, to change over status quo can, if properly exploited, bring huge numbers to the polls in his favor.  Yes we can.

      When the oak is felled the whole forest echoes with its fall, but a hundred acorns are sown in silence by an unnoticed breeze. -Thomas Carlyle

      by rb608 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:33:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't think we underestimate it at all. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Wild Starchild, Fairy Tale

      And I haven't seen any of us clicking our heels together.

      Your point, however, is well-taken and I suppopse it would be good for the Obama organization to put some effort into preparing materials for campaigners to use.

      Die-hard racists aren't going to be convinced, but some people who fall-back on that meme when they lack a positive motivater to support Obama may be turned-around if they see the issues that concern then addressed in substance.

      I believe that grassroots, one-on-one campagining can be very effective in this case since it engages people and gets them thinking, which lowers defenses.

      That's importiant because recisim is basically a defensive mechanism, F-E-A-R.

      When harmonious relationships dissolve, respect and devotion arise; when a nation falls to chaos, loyalty and patriotism are born - Daodejing (paraphrased)

      by koNko on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:42:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Listen to the wing-nuts... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Fairy Tale

      I've been forcing my self to listen to Karl Rove(who is now advising McSame) and Ari Fleischer(founder of Freedoms Watch,conservatives answer to Moveon.org,they have raised $250 million dollars for the GE)
      Ari is still outraged about R Wright,so I don't expect that one to go away.

      Rove has been talking about his patriotism and Michelle and flag pins,R Wright gets mixed into all that.The Weatherman thing has been mentioned.

      Then there is another "mentor" of Obama's that was a member of the American Communist Party(I can't remember the mans name right now,I'm sure someone here knows who I mean), and was a close friend of the Obama family. I'm pretty sure we'll being hearing more about that.  

      Here is a link to Rev. Wright speeches in context for those who are interested...
      Rev. Wright Uncensored

      Proud to be everything the Right Wing hates!

      by Wild Starchild on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:16:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  One new Wright reply I found (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    koNko, rainmanjr, Wild Starchild, Fairy Tale

    I came across this last night while arguing in a MySpace forum. Anthony B. Bradley is an anti-Obama African-American theologian. He provides a great argument that Reverend Wright has absolutely nothing to do with Barack Obama's policies and politics. Here's the link and an excerpt:

    http://www.acton.org/...

    It's About Obama's Economics, Not His Faith

    BY ANTHONY B. BRADLEY

    Attempts to align Barack Obama with the views of his recently retired pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, are distracting us from Obama’s actual platform.

    Obama’s membership in Chicago’s Trinity United Church of Christ may not actually tell us much about what Obama believes personally. Charges of guilt-by-association miss the mark and expose general ignorance about Protestant liberalism and mainline black churches. Concerned voters should instead focus on Obama’s economic policies, which are troubling enough.

    In a recent statement, Obama’s campaign said he "does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Senator Obama deeply disagrees."

    In the context of black church life, this makes complete sense. Unlike white evangelical churches, many black congregations do not typically tie personal religious convictions to public policy prescriptions. This explains the phenomenon that puzzles some observers: Many blacks can be culturally conservative and yet vote with liberal democrats.

    Jeremiah Wright’s embrace of black liberation theology and Afro-centrism does not necessarily mean that Barrack Obama does. The only part of Obama’s campaign rhetoric that sounds remotely like black liberation theology is his belief that government will solve all of America’s problems by redistributing wealth from the upper classes to the proletariat and erecting government as a surrogate decision-maker for the masses. It is possible that Obama does not take the faith principles he learned under Wright as seriously as he claims.

    Instead of straining a gnat through a straw to make a connection between Obama’s beliefs and those of Wright, the pertinent question remains: What initiatives does Obama plan to spearhead in our Republic? Obama is not running a campaign that is "unashamedly Black and unapologetically Christian," as Trinity UCC’s website professes. Afro-centrism does not win primaries but promising government as the cure-all does.

    by wayne204 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:45:28 AM PDT

  •  Instead of focusing on how he can be stopped (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    koNko, rainmanjr, Roger Fox

    how about we get ammunition to help him win?

    Wow, as I am tying this, I can see that the first post's title is almost word-for the same as mine, and I must assume the content will be the same as well.

    Clicking...

    Okay, nothing to see here people, move along!

    The Republicans have a candidate who is very weak- they are a fractured party, splintered by two very unlikely coalitions, the religious-right, and the capitalists.  And NEITHER OF THEM have much love for McCain.  He's the last man standing, and he's going on his knees to both sides for help, sacrificing all of his principles.

    Instead of swiftboats, we need to get the message out that McCain has a horrible record on the environment, childrens' issues, racial voting in the past, and a horrific temper.

    And he's wrong on the two greatest issues, Iraq and the economy.  This should be a cakewalk.

    by Dcoronata on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:56:38 AM PDT

    •  Excess of confidence could be our downfall (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      koNko, Wild Starchild, no expert, wayne204

      We also thought that Bush didn't stand a chance the first time around, didn't we? How can a monkey that cannot even talk going to win?

      If Iraq worsens and the economy does as well I tend to agree with you. If they don't, we are at risk.

      If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

      by Fairy Tale on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:03:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not excess confidence, but lack of effort (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        koNko, Roger Fox, Wild Starchild, Fairy Tale

        we have to fight to win.  That means donating money, talking to people, and voting with our wallets by telling broadcasters that support McCain that we aren't going to buy their soap anymore.

        The effectiveness of the media is deteriorating as the internet and cable have destroyed local TV markets.  You can't just win an election anymore with TV ad campaigns, you need boots in the street, people on the phone lines, and organization.  Money gets you these things.

        by Dcoronata on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:11:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The economy is not getting better by Nov. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        koNko, Wild Starchild

        but Iraq could.  With 1,000 Iraqi's laying down their guns and leaving the fight for Basra, though, I wouldn't count on it.  Even if the fighting gets better, the issue still remains.  Sure, it's not as strong an issue but it's still major.

        "I am here because of Ashley." - Unknown Obama supporter.

        by rainmanjr on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:25:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes but even if the war doesn't get any better... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          rainmanjr

          They will just tell us it is over and over again until
          Americans are shaking their heads yes right along with their tevees.
          I agree we need a grass roots effort. Luckily that effort is already well funded and organized within the Obama campaign. I think we have a very good chance of winning, but i will not completely rest until Obama is sworn in.

          Proud to be everything the Right Wing hates!

          by Wild Starchild on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:36:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The stim checks will be in full effect by Oct. (0+ / 0-)

          An effect that may last a whole 2 months.

          FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:13:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Excellent Point. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Roger Fox, Wild Starchild

        I'm really uncomfortable with the over-confidance thing myself. This is a historically importiant election for the USA and it's foolish to think it's in the bag, we must take and make opportunities to convince people and get out the vote.

        When harmonious relationships dissolve, respect and devotion arise; when a nation falls to chaos, loyalty and patriotism are born - Daodejing (paraphrased)

        by koNko on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:47:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  This is not '00 or '04 (0+ / 0-)

        That thinking is obsolete.

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:16:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Confidence or arrogance ? (0+ / 0-)

        Confidence is a necessary ingredient on the road to Nov.

        ...one can have too little confidence... and be doomed from the start.

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:22:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Excellent comment Dcoronata , thanks (0+ / 0-)

      FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:23:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama's strengths will shine through (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    koNko, Wild Starchild

    None of the issues raised bother me too much; but I agree the 527s will stop at nothing.  I think Obama needs mainly to keep his cool, keep his spokespeople and supporters cool and discrete, and just keep being who he is.

    Despite the current head-to-head polls, I don't believe it will or should be close.  McCain is such a poor choice, and Obama so articulate, that any side-by-side debate should make Obama's superiority clear to people.  I believe people will believe what they see in Obama, not what the 527s tell them to see.

    On issues of race and patriotism, I think Obama and his campaign have the skills to turn those attacks against the attackers and show them for what and who they are.

    No, if Obama keeps on proudly being Barack Hussein Obama, I think America is ready and eager for that.

    When the oak is felled the whole forest echoes with its fall, but a hundred acorns are sown in silence by an unnoticed breeze. -Thomas Carlyle

    by rb608 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:24:37 AM PDT

    •  I agree he will beat McCain on the stump. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      rb608, Wild Starchild

      Actually, McCain is already showing signs of fatigue, but Obama must out shine him in every way possible since McCain is a familliar face and "likable guy" that many people feel confortable with regardless of how badly he might serve their interests.

      I'm very confident Obama can handle his part, it's the party that needs to get itself in better shape for the campaign.

      Heads-up people!

      When harmonious relationships dissolve, respect and devotion arise; when a nation falls to chaos, loyalty and patriotism are born - Daodejing (paraphrased)

      by koNko on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:52:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Clinton crossovers & stay at homes (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Wild Starchild, wayne204

    Because this represents votes lost that might otherwise be cast for a Democratric Candidate/Administration.

    I don't think much can be done to convert die-hard racists, which would otherwise be my choice.

    What can be done to motivate disgruntled Clinton supporters is:

    (a) Party leaders, particularly Clinton, throwing their support behind Obama. If Clinton really values the future of the party and the issues she holds deasr, she will do this. If she fails to, then we will understand the importance of ambition verses political progress as her motivation. I think, in the end, she will be supportive.

    (b) Focusing on the issues and constructing a party platform that addresses the concerns of Americans should not be difficult since there is, essentially, concensus on the main issues. However, Obama (and the party) must be well-prepared to provide detials to convince people.

    (c) Dems need to reach-out at the grassroots level to draw back people who have been alienated by the campaign. I have confidance Obama's existing gressroots organization is up to the task but a key point will be to provide canvassers talking points and some training on how to approach people, get them to talk, then listen and persuade. Soft sell. I think the most difficult group to persuade will be women who had high hopes for Clinton and now feel rejected or disenfranchised, and I'd like to hear from such ladies at Daily Kos becuase, shit, I'm a guy and don't assume I know how you feel/what you want.

    When harmonious relationships dissolve, respect and devotion arise; when a nation falls to chaos, loyalty and patriotism are born - Daodejing (paraphrased)

    by koNko on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:26:38 AM PDT

    •  I hope / expect Hillary will eventually (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      koNko, Wild Starchild

      become a strong supporter of Obama because both her political future and Bill's legacy hang in the balance. I think most Clinton supporters will be with the party in November, although I am still concerned about Obama's vulnerabilities.

      by no expert on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:31:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        koNko, Wild Starchild

        If Obama gets the nomination and loses in November, a large part of it will likely be perceived as HRC's fault.  Both her and Bill will be finished.  

        When the oak is felled the whole forest echoes with its fall, but a hundred acorns are sown in silence by an unnoticed breeze. -Thomas Carlyle

        by rb608 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:35:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So Hill & Bill are finished either way? (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          rb608, koNko, carllaw

          She's damned if she wins the nomination and she's damned if she doesn't?  Sounds like the script already is to blame Hillary if Obama loses.  I suspect by the time Nov rolls around there will be a substantial list from which to chose. And if he wins, the Dem's biggest asset may be that their republican opponent was a doddering old fool.  

          by DWinFLA on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:07:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not necessarily (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            koNko

            I didn't intend to pose a thorough analysis & opinion in two sentences.  A lot of variables  and scenarios come into play.  If, for example, BHO gets the nomination, and HRC is seen as a truly positive force in the Dem efforts not only at the top of the ticket but downticket, she will regain a lot of respect from BHO supporters, and her future will be quite bright.  POTUS one day, Majority leader, even SCOTUS.  My point was that if she is perceived to have screwed the party by handling this wrong, a lot of doors will close.

            When the oak is felled the whole forest echoes with its fall, but a hundred acorns are sown in silence by an unnoticed breeze. -Thomas Carlyle

            by rb608 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:43:26 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Don't think so. (0+ / 0-)

            If she is the canditate and looses, she gets blamed. If Obama is the candidate and looses, if Clinton supported him, he gets blamed; if she didn't, she gets blamed. If Obama wins, he gets Front Paged, she gets Mojo and McCain gets TR'd Patent Pending.

            In the absence of defining issues/events that promt a win/loss, almost any theroy that fits the result flies.  That's why you write best sellers afterward.

            When harmonious relationships dissolve, respect and devotion arise; when a nation falls to chaos, loyalty and patriotism are born - Daodejing (paraphrased)

            by koNko on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 10:46:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Good Point. (0+ / 0-)

        I hadn't thought of it that way.

        Can you please talk to Hill & Bill?  Don't leave anything to chance!

        When harmonious relationships dissolve, respect and devotion arise; when a nation falls to chaos, loyalty and patriotism are born - Daodejing (paraphrased)

        by koNko on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:56:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  BRAVO! (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      koNko

      by wayne204 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:35:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Republican attack... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    koNko, Wild Starchild, carllaw

    ....will come something like this:

    Obama's lack of experience, especially foreign policy.

    Michelle's comment about proud of her country.

    Wright's comment about "God Damn America."

    McCain will run on the war and paint Obama as inexperienced and unpatriotic.

    McCain will not want to talk about the economy or domestic policy.

    by CTMTN on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:40:31 AM PDT

  •  You forgot... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Wild Starchild

    "finding him in bed with a dead girl or a live boy".  IMHO it's pretty much all that could stop him from beating McCain.

    However, the "terrorist" option comes the closest, otherwise.

    by Jonathan on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:57:41 AM PDT

  •  The primary turnout (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Wild Starchild

    if mimicked in the general pretty much guarentees a Democrat in the White House.  So my main concern is a split in the Dem party.  The other issues will be used as well, but will be targeted to Repub and Dems, that I believe, would have voted for McCain all along.  It is my opinion that any Hillary or Obama supporter who says that they will vote for McCain if their candidate doesn't win the primary is 1) making idle threatsin the heat of a primary, or 2) would vote for McCain no matter who ran against him.

    I support Obama, and while I'd be disappointed if he didn't get the nomination I would never vote for McCain, nor would I sit at home.  This election is too important.  Unite the party after the primary - whenever that may be, ugh! - and Dems will win.

    by Pandora63 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:59:13 AM PDT

  •  You missed a poll choice: (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Wild Starchild

    "the media painting McCain as an awesome mavy mavy Mc-maverick war hero maverick, that always does his own thing and never does what he's supposed, just like a really cool maverick that oh by the way is a war hero maverick"

    There are people who say, "If music's that easy to write, I could do it." Of course they could, but they don't. - John Cage

    by RoscoeOfAlabama on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:26:43 AM PDT

  •  What can stop Obama, you forgot one - The press! (0+ / 0-)

    If the press decides they want McClame elected, he will be elected.

    by aloevera on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:47:57 AM PDT

  •  Attacking his strength (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    wayne204

    I also think that the Repubs--following Rove's plan-- will attack Obama's biggest strength, the fact that he doesn't take PAC money.  They'll twist the facts somehow to make it seem like he does, in fact, take money from special interests.  It will appeal to people's cynicism:  "Oh, he was just another politician after all."  It makes me crazy that they can get away with this stuff.

    Except, maybe ... Not this time.  

    It's up to us to combat this.

    by marypickford on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:54:49 AM PDT

  •  Wright and racism (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    wayne204

    Sadly, we must face the reality that there are still far to many Americans who are bothered by Obama's skin color. We do his candidacy no favors by pretending he won't be subjected to double standards and unfair characterizations.  

    The good news is that there is plenty of time to push back against this. The Rethugs are convinced that Obama will be caught flat footed much the same way Dukakis was with Willy Horton and Kerry was with the swift boat nonsense. To that, I say no fucking way! However, although I think it is a bogus issue, I think it still needs to be addressed and discussed more, and Obama should do so before the fall campaign. And, we Dems should be ready to push back hard when the Rethugs try to raise this in the fall.

    by livosh1 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:20:01 AM PDT

  •  Rezko and Cook county (0+ / 0-)

    by riverdan1900 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:04:46 AM PDT

  •  Although I walk thru the Valley of republicans (0+ / 0-)

    I have no fear, for I am the baddest mother zucker in the Valley.

    FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

    by Roger Fox on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:10:10 AM PDT

  •  nice way to get out all the (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Overseas

    Obama con arguments in one little idary, huh?  And you can even claim you're "concerned" about his chances.

    We're not buying.


    Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room! - President Merkin Muffley

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:41:59 AM PDT

  •  I wrote that diary I mentioned this morning (0+ / 0-)

    You can find it at:
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    If you are interested

    If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

    by Fairy Tale on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:58:34 PM PDT

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