Our VP of IT got laid off today

The bedrock of our department, but NOT in favor with the powers that be

Guy with 19 years of loyal service to the company, and they just threw him out like a used dishrag.

We had the meeting today where they spun it for us.......and oh wasn't it awkward to meet him in the hall on the way down to the meeting where they were going to tell us about it

All of us are wondering what this means for our department.. they spun it very reassuringly, but have NOT promised us anything..........at least not long term........the obvious goal is still to have our functions outsourced to the Richmond branch.

Sigh.........updating resumes..........like that's going to help when every IT function we perform these days is being outsourced to India.......these days a job loss is like a death sentence........

I talked to my sweetie tonight........we're still moving forward with our visa petition, but i don't know if we'll take that final step if we get it. There are no jobs for him if he comes here, and I don't want to ruin his life.

God I hate these people. And sorry to be such a downer. I have moved every bit of my 401k to very safe (and not profitable) money market investments, and I am leaving them there till after the election.

I don't even know if Obama or Hillary could even help with this. Or even want to. They're in the pay and thrall of corporate america also. They can't help but be.

Question: does anybody here REALLY think the DC Madam committed suicide? Give me a break. She knew too much. Getting sick of the death toll of people that knew too much (Paul Wellstone, etc).

Rose

•  Go see that diary on depression...

  or go get a bottle of Jack Daniels.  Sorry dude.

  by David Kroning on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:27:57 PM PDT

  •  Haha I prefer chardonnay myself

    Not "dude" though. "Broad" hahahahah.

    Thanks for the comment.

    by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:29:28 PM PDT

    •  sorry dude(tte)

      ...I would never call a woman a "broad."

      by David Kroning on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:32:19 PM PDT

      •  haha. s'ok

        I know you wouldn't. Thanks for commenting. Lord, I might just drown in chardonnay tonight. Well, not.

        But it's been a hell of a day at sea, sir. This week has been totally awful.

        by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:35:55 PM PDT

        •  I'll raise my glass to a better day tomorrow...

          cheers!

          by David Kroning on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:39:27 PM PDT

      •  I'm a woman...

        ...and I refer to myself as a "broad broad"

        by DawnG on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:49:33 PM PDT

        •  well...

          It does allow you to use a Broad Sword ;)

          by ScrewySquirrel on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:58:28 PM PDT

        •  Broad minded broad?

          Eisenhower once gave a campaign promise:

          "America," he said, "I will not send your sons abroad...they'll have to go out and find one themselves!"

          Brruuuuumb-ttttsssss.

          To Rose -> Good luck, been there, done that. It sucks.

          Life is going to take a very flexible, creative approach going forward for most, if not all of us. Keep your broad mind broad.

          by Pescadero Bill on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:28:05 PM PDT

    •  I hope ..

      everything works out.  Sorry about this.

      And Obama does care.  Promise!

      by Lava20 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:38:43 PM PDT

      •  Well I believe so

        which is why I will vote for him. Just hard to keep the faith at this point. But I still am.

        by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:41:09 PM PDT

    •  Two customers this week lost...

      We have a small model shop here in Rockford, IL, and two engineers we do work for lost their jobs this week- a 65 year old out of Toledo (window and door frames) who can not retire, and another who we've worked with for 10 years (automotive) out of Lake Geneva.

      I know it's not outsourcing, but... we're just a six person shop, and about 10% of our work was lost this week. Not good.

      We'll survive. The 10 year automotive guy will find another job, I'm sure. The 65 year old is in deep shit. He called us after his job was terminated and was utterly depressed. Not enough money to retire, and his wife is too young to collect Medicare. Too much for one week. Let's hope they, and we (all of us... you and us), come out OK.

      by Poika on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:36:48 PM PDT

  •  or mine on stress relief

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Sorry to hear about your IT guy, it's scary to find even those kinds of jobs aren't secure.

    by nicolemm on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:01:16 PM PDT

    •  Sadly, they haven't been secure for years.

      Remember Y2K?  It turned out to be not such a big problem, but most programmers were already employed in the dot-com boom.  So the corporations discovered India and its wealth of programming talent.

      These days, the India universitys pump out over 100,000 new software engineers per year, and they are getting the work that would have gone to Americans in the 1990's.

      Now it's hitting other white collar jobs too, accounting, paralegal work...it just goes on and on.

      But you're still a patriot if you're wearing a flag pin while talking on the phone to your offshoring contacts.  Just  so you know.

      by spotDawa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:07:03 PM PDT

•  Dear Rosebuddear;

  I don't know where that visa you were applying for was to, but if it does come through, take it.  Don't be a downer for your sweetie.  Take a chance with him/her.

  Sincerely,

  panicbean

  p.s.

  If my sweetie would/could do it, we'd be living in Mexico by now.  Seriously!

  by panicbean on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:29:27 PM PDT

  •  Panic, believe me, I want to

    I won't be a downer for him..........but.our govts are both hostile to fiance/marriage visas, because there is no money in it for them.........my job is shaky, health care is shaky, he would be leaving a far better financial situation for a worse one........trust me, we are considering all options.

    Thanks for the comment. Rose

    by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:32:30 PM PDT

    •  I am no longer a church goer, but when things

      get tough, I chicken out sometimes, and repeat to myself, all is as the lord would have it be.

      That quote is from my days as a Methodist, which, if I were still a person of the organized church, is the one I would enjoin with.

      I hope it helps you, if not, then you still have each other, and the world will still be as you would have it be if you see it through the eyes of hope.

      Be well, be good to each other.

      pb

      by panicbean on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:37:16 PM PDT

      •  :) Panic

        Nice post. I just take it day by day now.

        by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:39:37 PM PDT

        •  Seriously my dear, is there any other way? :)

          by panicbean on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:48:13 PM PDT

          •  no not really

            Canada won't take ME, you know. Too old, you have to have an employer to sponsor you, they're not taking anybody.

            Sweetie works with a whole bunch of guys trying to bring their girlfriends/wives there from various other countries. No soap. Canada's not accepting ANY of them. They have no fiance, or spouse provisions any more. The only visas they have extant are if you can buy your way in - costs 200,000 or more, or if you have some skill that the provinces really want. These days that pretty much relates to oil roughneck skills, and mostly the people getting those visas are the cheap labor immigrants.

            by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:01:03 PM PDT

            •  Head south. The climate is better.

              The dollar restrictions are less, and the cost of living is less, as well.

              We would head south, if we could.  But, even if we can't, we know that we will be fine, because we have each other, and all the finer things we do have mean little or less than that.

              Believe me, we have had this discussion lots of times in our home lately.  The economy is in the shitter, and dh is in distance learning for the government, which is kind of funny when you think about it, as it is always the first to get cut in any budget.  :)

              by panicbean on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:05:41 PM PDT

            •  :(

              Well there goes MY escape plan.

              Damn.

              Although I don't blame them.  They're probably getting swamped with down and out Americans.

              by DawnG on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:12:38 PM PDT

            •  Not really true if your talking about Canada...

              Well there is still very good spousal sponsorship in Canada. It's just that you have to prove it to Immigration Canada's satisfaction.

              They have tighted up in recent years and the paperwork is a bit large and spooky but it is certainly possible. Also if you do get in it moves relatively quickly in Canadian Immigration terms. 9-11 months start to finish then you are a Permanet Resident.

              You are right about the Employers though they hate the paperwork associated with hiring a Temporary Foriegn Worker. But if you qualify under one of the 60 NAFTA professions then you can get in with only a little fuss.

              If your really deeply interested in Spousal Sponsorship or other Canadian Immigration topics I would really recommend the following Bulliten Board.

              http://britishexpats.com/...

              There is the Business (buy your way in Visas) but those take 3 to 4 years and cost a fortune with big rules attached.

              Anyway figured I would offer some help because I've lived looking for the Canadian Visa for the last few years while living up here.

              by Eckhart1234 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:25:28 PM PDT

    •  crazy

      If his position is better, who don't you apply to live there?

      by ScrewySquirrel on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:59:32 PM PDT

  •  I agree about taking the visa petition

    I have my immigration law final in the morning (why on earth am I on DailyKos right now??)...I have spent this whole semester learning how precious and hard to come by those things are!  If you get it, take it!

    by mnleger on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:42:20 PM PDT

    •  We will

      Just hard to think about making him come here and being totally dependent on my health insurance, and now.........who knows? if I get laid off, we'd both be SCREWED royally.

      Just saying.

      by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:44:15 PM PDT

      •  Well, I wish the best to both of you.

        Hopefully things will turn out well.

        by mnleger on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:48:30 PM PDT

    •  And by the way

      Study up for that immigration law final. Might want to hire you after you get that degree. :):):)

      by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:45:25 PM PDT

      •  mnleger, does the mn part mean you in Minnesota?

        Very DEFINITELY might want to talk to you about immigration law. Minneapolis here.

        by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:48:20 PM PDT

        •  I am located in the ever-lovely state of Texas.

          However, if you need legal advice...I would try calling some law schools in your area and seeing what kind of clinics they have (my school has an Immigration clinic that assists clients with visas, fighting removals, etc.).  You would be working with a student, but the student would likely be very well supervised by professors.  And it would likely be free (always a plus!)

          by mnleger on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:55:51 PM PDT

          •  thx for the advice

            I'll keep it in mind. :)

            by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:01:46 PM PDT

•  Well

  I wouldn't have moved your 401K to money market funds. You sold low and you will end up buying higher. I would have instead put more money away because the market will rebound over time.

  by oceanstar17 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:47:11 PM PDT

  •  Yeah I know but I'm taking

    my Dad's advice on this, and he hasn't been wrong so far.

    by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:49:14 PM PDT

    •  Well

      How old are you? It might make sense if your around 5 years or less from retirement.

      by oceanstar17 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:50:08 PM PDT

      •  I am 56

        so right in that gray area

        by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:54:47 PM PDT

        •  Ok

          I would probably be 40% stocks/60% bonds at this point. Then again the key question is: how much longer do you plan on working?

          by oceanstar17 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:59:16 PM PDT

          •  yes

            exactly.

            I just moved all of my 401K back into US equities after 2 years...now is not the time to be moving out, its time to move in.

            At 56 though, I would want my dough.

            by pooh74 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:02:36 PM PDT

            •  "All"?

              It makes me nervous to see percentages like 100% or 0%.

              by davybaby on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:10:56 PM PDT

        •  figuritively?

          I wouldve left it there too..but at 56, I guess peace of mind and less risk trumps.

          Good luck, but stop seeing the booge man everywhere...I know things suck right now, but not everything bad that happens means someone planned it.  Always important to have perspective.

          by pooh74 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:01:05 PM PDT

  •  I think the cash might be best...

    by Redbug on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:22:59 PM PDT

•  I feel ya sister (or brother)!

  I work in tech support and once the entire desk I worked on got laid off all at once.  I even relate to your delema with your sweetie.  My sweetie is from Canada and I had a similar problem but he was able to find a job not long after getting his green card.  

  It's all about where you are.  Some places have far more tech jobs or far fewer competing techs than others.

  Good luck in your search.  

  In solidarity,

  Dawn

  by DawnG on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:48:58 PM PDT

  •  Thx dawn

    I'm glad you and your sweetie had a little better experience. (in solidarity also).

    by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:50:36 PM PDT

    •  Look at it this way.

      If he's a tech, then you have twice as good a chance at getting one job between you.  My sweetie (now my husband) was out of work for...gosh...4 years.  And my own layoff happened during that same time so we were literally living off my unemployment check and nothing else for almost 3 months.

      If I can impart any advise to you, especially in the tech field, it's this:  you need to cultivate a good reputation among your peers.  A good reputation is worth your weight in gold.

      I've had 3 jobs in the last 10 years and I have had the same supervisor in all 3 jobs (at one point or another).  He would move to a better opportunity (along with other people I worked with) and would always give me a good word when I came looking.  Even if YOU don't land on your feet right away, chances are someone you've worked with will and there might be an opportunity to bring you on board if you have a solid reputation.

      by DawnG on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:57:34 PM PDT

•  Insensitive commenters do not acknowledge

  the stress and hopelessness that can be felt during trying times on the job.  When you worry about you very ability to provide for yourself and/or family, it takes a toll on every aspect of your life.

  For all it's worth, I've been in a situation similar where I was both the team member and the IT VP.  What kept me sane is that I always looked at these changes as the shakeup needed to inspire my next move.  Sometimes we have to have a door close on us before we can recognize that there is another one open somewhere.

  Open your eyes and be receptive to all going on in your life.  Be creative, too.  There are talents that you can market, or friends who can connect you, or opportunities that await that you may not have given consideration to yet.  If all else fails, be patient.  easier said than done, I know, but stressing things do not make them happen any faster.

  Best of luck to you and I wish you all the best!

  by ILean Left on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:49:25 PM PDT

  •  Yeah I know ILean

    What's one person's bad news is another person's good news. I'm pretty aware that if this job goes south, something else better might be waiting around the corner.

    I'm trying to keep it real like that. :) Thanks.

    by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:53:19 PM PDT

    •  Good luck, Rose

      I know it is stressful.

      by not a cent on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:59:05 PM PDT

  •  True words

    As a labor lawyer, I met many people who, after the loss of a job, found a much different path. In many cases, the layoff or termination turned out to be a gift in the long run. But, short term, it is extremely stressful.

    My one piece of advice is to be as proactive as possible. If things are going south, don't wait around and do nothing. Start looking for another job, think about what else you might want to do, figure out if what you have been doing is really what you love.

    And, in the interim, go get a copy of Dr. Seuss' "Oh, the Places You'll Go!"  Seriously.

    Peace.

    by not a cent on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:58:14 PM PDT

    •  Some of my closest associates are labor attys...

      My husband and I are in the labor field and are also professional speakers.

      by ILean Left on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:57:42 PM PDT

•  That must suck

  What I would do is start sending out resumes and perhaps move into a new field. It sucks to be laid off. I've have had it happen to me. In my case it sucked because they did it late in the afternoon.

  by oceanstar17 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:49:32 PM PDT

  •  Mine was on a Thursday

    That sucked because of course you still had Friday between the layoff and the weekend.  I hate my new job but it pays better. I just wish someone would pay me to do the things I love and am good at as opposed to the crap the sweatshops need you for.

    At least I'm really enjoying my Wild Goose SnowGoose Winter Ale -- it really does age well as they said on their website....

    I'm holding out hope that better days lie ahead because far too many friends and buds are like me, unhappy with their current job/worried about the viability of their current job.

    Rosebuddear -- my heart goes out to you, it's horrible to feel like you're not on terra firma and to be away from the one you love.  

    by akeitz on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:01:33 PM PDT

    •  Well

      They say that the best day to lay off, fire, or terminate an employee is on Wednesday. That is, it is not at the beginning or the end of the week. The terminated employee then doesn't have to stew over the weekend or face a whole week without work.

      by oceanstar17 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:11:27 PM PDT

•  Thanks for all the comments..........really

  Just waiting to see what happens. The thing that sucks about this is what I posted the diary about. That VP was a good guy and a huge asset to the company. They tossed him out like a used dishrag, and now they're trying to tell US that they care about us.

  They can say to that guy all they want "sorry nothing personal it was just a business decision" but they're going to have a hard time spinning it to the rest of us that they actually care about us, after that.

  by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:06:49 PM PDT

  •  every company cares about their employees...

    ...on paper.  But there's a reason why they say "it's not personal, it's business".  Businesses aren't in the business of employing people, they're in the business of making money.

    It's all the more wonderful when you do find a business that sincerely values its employees, but that is the exception, not the rule.

    by DawnG on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:20:21 PM PDT

•  try swiss francs or euros

  the dollar is sinking

  by nathguy on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:15:12 PM PDT

•  Hang in There

  Go to the Friends School Plant Sale May,9,10,11 and treat yourself to some wonderful flowers. Make a list of wonderful things to do, and then pick one!

  by The Grace Kelly on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:16:05 PM PDT

  •  Thanks Grace

    Where is that, by the way?

    by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:17:57 PM PDT

    •  Grace, did you come to the meetup I hosted

      A couple of weeks ago? There were so many wonderful people there, it's hard to remember them all........I do remember that Big E was there, and then the next day I heard him on the radio. :):)

      Yours in solidarity.........that's great stuff. As a previous poster said tonight. and my apologies for not searching back for this to find out who you are. You are dead on. Thank you.

      by Rosebuddear on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:26:36 PM PDT

      •  No, I was doing taxes

        Friends school plant sale starts at 11 Friday at state fairgound main building. It also happens Saturday and Sunday. Just search "Friends school plant sale".

        by The Grace Kelly on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:40:55 PM PDT

•  (((((rosebuddear)))))

  Please know that many people are thinking of you tonight, and wishing you well.

  This will sound like total BS, but it's true: my hubby was downsized a little over 4 years ago.  He's also an IT professional.  We had a scary few months, but we moved, and ended up in a great place.  Everything worked out in the end.

  I'm not trying to minimize the difficulties you are seeing right now, honest.  We were terrified, we had a very young child to protect, we were afraid we'd lose everything.  But have some faith.  Have some hope.  We're all pulling for you.  Best wishes.

  by Exurban Mom on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:32:39 PM PDT

  •  Thanx Exurban Mom - I love hugs from fellow K's

    A bit of followup to this. The boss today called a meeting to discuss "reorganization" for 1-5pm. We were all like WTF? Somebody actually asked him if that was a typo. He said no, wouldn't say anything else. We all show up at his office at one, he says "we're going to Doolittle's (local watering hole).

    We spent the whole afternoon there, bitching and moaning and having a swell time. He said we were going to have drinks and make the new boss pay for them haha.

    And he doesn't drink. So it was particularly cool on his part. He's from an African country,(well sort of - parents are from there, but he was born in Ann Arbor, Michigan, when they were there on student visas, and then they moved back there when he was a small child - so he has dual citizenship) and I don't know if he's Christian or Muslim or whatever, but he is an absolute teetotaler. But he bought all the drinks.

    And of course as things degenerated, some of the younger troops started pressuring him to have a drink. They bought these really vile-tasting shots, and wouldn't let him out of there without drinking some. Yecchh. He sipped a bit, and then hastily drank a lot of Coke. Now, coming from a family of alkies, and well aware of "issues" with alcohol, I was quite uncomfortable with that. He had taken a ride over to Doolittle's so I gave him a ride back to the office - he said, jeez I think I need to work a while to clear my head. I told him I didn't like that, nobody should try to insist a person who has never drank have a drink. I think it's kind of irresponsible, he told me yeah, they've done it before, and he's uncomfortable with it, but tries to do it occasionally in the interest of being friends, team-building, etc. I told him, you're not the wrong one here, they are. You are not under ANY obligation to do that for "team-building" sake. I think he appreciated that. I got the impression he's been quite uncomfortable with that in the past.

    I did hear a good joke there tho: Ole and Lena

    Ole and Lena, ya know, they're not comfortable talking about S*E*X, so they use code words. The code word is "washing machine". So one night Ole turns over in bed and pokes Lena in the ribs (imagine the broad Norwegian accent) Lena honey, washing machine? Lena: oh Ole honey, I'm so tired I worked so hard all day, I have a headache. Ole: ok hon. But Ole's fired up now and can't sleep. So he tries again - Lena, honey, washing machine. Lena: oh no Ole honey, really, I'm just so tired."

    But then LENA can't sleep. She starts thinking, "oh gosh, Ole really is a good husband, and so nice to me, I should really take care of his needs". So she rolls over and nudges Ole: "Ole honey, washing machine". Ole: "oh Lena hon, it's ok. It was a really small load, so I just did it by hand".

    LOLOLOL!!  I know, you had to be there, but I am saving that one for Mom's day dinner. My parents will LOVE it. (75 year old Norwegian Mom, 77 year old Swedish/German Dad.) Hahaha.

    Boss also asked me about my fiance situation. I said, for now, we're going through with it to at least see if we get the visa. He said "I wish I could guarantee you a better future. It all sucks. Just know that I will give you a good recommendation anywhere if they bring down the axe. Although he seems to think he'll go before the rest of us. At this point, nobody knows. I wanted to hug him, but that would have been "unprofessional" haha.

    Very interesting long day, and I'm a little lit from an extended happy hour. Blessings on all of you, and Happy Friday.

    Rose

    by Rosebuddear on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:04:10 PM PDT