Open Thread for Night Owls & Early Birds

Over at Echidne of the Snakes, Anthony McCarthy is helping to fill in for the moment and writes:

^{It’s Next Year That Could Get Us Killed If We’re Not Smart About It:}

Those on the blog threads who are discouraging people from vigorously opposing and voting against the Republicans, in the only way that will affect reality in January, are acting as Republican agents provocateurs. I know that they will have some idealistic sounding reason for it, they will have some line, but reality is real*, that is the real life effect of what they are saying.

There is no rational reason for someone who doesn’t want the Bush-Cheney nightmare to continue under a new name to discourage people from voting for the Democratic nominee. There is either an irrational reason for them doing it or they are actually working to continue the policies of the Bush-Cheney nightmare. The six months before November will be too busy trying to prevent disaster to try to sort out the moles from the dupes. Until after the election, I’m considering them all Republican operatives, because they’ll be doing the same thing.

* Anticipating the usual eloquent appeals for "the future", well, January 2009 is as much "the future" as their age of their glorious millennium. I am pretty sure January will come next year, I haven’t seen any evidence that their fantasy future will get here. And since time goes all in one direction and only on one road, the road to whatever future there is will have to go through next year. That’s the reality of it. People are going to have to eat next year, have health problems next year, need an environment that will grow them food and sustain their lives next year, keep from getting involved with McCain’s war on Iran next year. We need a good next year to have a future beyond it. Next year could get us all killed.

American military fatalities in Iraq since March 2003: 4076

Total coalition fatalities: 4388

Estimated (because nobody counts) Iraqi military and civilian fatalities in the same period: 200,000 to 1.4 million, depending on the source.

The Overnight News Digest is posted.

•  The only reason I'd vote for McCain...

  is to vote him off the island (e.g., Pangea).

  by yojimbo on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:48:48 PM PDT

  •  rotl. ;) n/t

    by Meteor Blades on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:50:15 PM PDT

  •  whoooooooooo hooooo!

    thanks to all Kossacks!!!!
    "Be the change you" seek came in for the rest of the $280!!!!!!
    Thank you to all the Kossacks that donated for a shelter box for Burma in that we purchased!!!!!!!!

    by TexMex on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:52:29 PM PDT

    •  I am so verkempted!!!!!!

      please continue to spread the word and share the link to shelter boxes!
      Thank you to all that donated and those who donated but didn't post their donation and those that reccommended my diary and those that have emailed it around to other people.

      Wow I am sooooo happy I can get some sleep tonight and be proud to be a Member of the Daily Kos and a Rotarian!!!

      http://www.shelterboxusa.org/

      cause it ain't about me, it about YOU!!!!!!

      by TexMex on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:58:05 PM PDT

      •  this is what we bought!

        Boxes Are sometimes packed with two 10-person tents in them, (to the exclusion of some smaller items, to maximize shelter capacity. Some of the selected Box items that are available for inclusion in the Box are:

        The entire contents of a Shelterbox.
        Click here for an enlarged & detailed view.
        • One 49 gallon box (The Shelterbox) initially the container for delivery of the materials listed below. Once delivered, can be used as water tank, food store, cot, table, etc.

        • One domed ten-person, tent complete (200 square feet of covered accommodation), including two fabric interior privacy partitions, outer fly-sheet and repair kit. These tents are considered ‘winter suitable’ by international relief standards.

        • Vinyl insulated sleeping mats and lightweight thermal blankets. More compact than sleeping bags, these mats and blankets have multiple uses. The blanket can also be fashioned to catch water, as a tarp, etc. while the mat also serves as a ground ‘table’ for meals, or tent rugs.

        • Ten envelope-type sleeping bags.

        • One pack of 180 water purification tablets and one 5 gallon flat-pack water container (Each tablet will purify a full container of water providing 1,800 gallons of clean drinking water which should be sufficient for a family of ten for up to three months).

        • Two 2.1 gallon, collapsible, plastic water carriers.

        • One collapsible trenching shovel

        • Rope, 164 foot

        • Repellant-treated mosquito netting

        • Ten PVC Ponchos/ ten HD plastic bags

        • Tool kit in canvas bag: hachet, jack-knife, screwdriver, hammer, hoe head etc.

        • Multi-fueled cook stove

        • Eating utensils: enamel plates/cups

        • Children's activity kit-simple school supplies, stickers and coloring book

        by TexMex on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:08:13 PM PDT

  •  Honestly

    There's no excuse for voting for McCain, I don't care HOW much someone hates our nominee. Vote for Lincoln Chafee then.

    Or just wait until the dust settles and the power of logic compels you to vote for our nominee.

    by Ivey476 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:52:58 PM PDT

  •  If I ever even thought about voting for

    McSame, I'd vote myself off the island.

    by juslikagrzly on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:06:24 PM PDT

•  What is discrimination?

  For a kickass answer, check out mizbeena's personal example as an American Muslim living in NY after 9/11.

  It was posted on ePluribus Media tonight as part of Aaron Barlow and Annie Seaton's "Race and the New Media" project.

  What is Discrimination?

  Not bad for a student, eh?

  Never, never brave me, nor my fury tempt:
    Downy wings, but wroth they beat;
  Tempest even in reason's seat.

  by GreyHawk on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:49:52 PM PDT

•  It's good to see so many Kossacks

  value quality of our president over the state of their own genitalia.

  by zhimbo on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:50:27 PM PDT

  •  There are a few votes for....

    ...McCain would be a good president...  What, the MyDD'ers are stopping by or something?

    by LordMike on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:59:33 PM PDT

    •  redstate.com lurkers looking for ideas

      from the smart people.
      Not to worry, they always screw up the copy and paste.

      by geez53 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:11:42 PM PDT

      •  It never works does it?

        I used to lurk Redsstate from time to time. There are days where the entire front page consists of their contributers misinterpreting 3rd grad level vocabulary words. its not that they are necessarily evil, they are just incredibly dumb. They aren't really representative of most republicans I know.

        We really need to introduce some civics courses in our public schools that would teach kids how to spot fraud in economic and political situations. Too many Americans ( Rupublican and Democrats), blindly support a platform with out doing any kind of critical reasoning. One day, I'll run for some office and make education of the electorate my primary issue. I won't just point out why you should vote for me, I'll tell you why you might not want to vote for me. Take all of the facts in front of you and use your best judgment to make a decision who to vote for.

        On a further side note, I'm glad it looks like it will be Obama and McCain, they've been fairly honest, even when it hurt them politically. I pray against facts that this may be a civil general election focused on the issues.  

        by SpiderCrash on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:28:20 PM PDT

        •  Make those civics classes Freirean ...

          ...and make the classroom a microcosm of the world of politics you're trying to teach about.

          by Meteor Blades on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:58:40 PM PDT

  •  Reality Bias? Is that you?

    Sorry - couldn't resist.

    by Unitary Moonbat on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:08:33 PM PDT

    •  Circumcision by fire ant!! n/t

      by Meteor Blades on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:57:07 PM PDT

      •  I'd have voted "...even on fire ant hill..."

        but I am allergic big time. They almost killed me once already. So I'd be choosing suicide.

        Outside of Texas I'm not sure Kossacks know what fire ants really are. They're tiny little things and their bite stings like hell.

        by LaughingPlanet on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:04:05 PM PDT

  •  Other poll options?

    >Vote for the Dem, go home with some libertarians for the hoes and weed, do the honey thing with a consenting adult partner but without the ants.

    >(For rethugs)Vote for McCain, go home, do the honey thing alone.

    by ruleoflaw on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:43:06 AM PDT

  •  Honey on genitalia and fire ants?

    Careful, you'll give the Bush administration ideas.

    by kuulray on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:04:33 AM PDT

•  Anyone else watch that FDR doc on PBS?

  American Experience: FDR

  I had no idea his life was so uneventful prior to his affliction of polio. Seems like suffering brought out the progressive in him - that and Eleanor.

  by otheruser on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:51:59 PM PDT

  •  Watching It Now West Coast

    Lordy I hope there's another 2+ hours on his actual governance.

    To think that one stumble in 1928 could have robbed the planet of what followed.

    by Gooserock on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:38:58 PM PDT

•  i suppose i could vote for mccain

  if he reverted to 2000 McCain and swore off the last eight years and hillary got nominated and got even crazier and said some stuff about how all the black people are gonna vote for her anyway... maybe?

  so yeah, I'm not voting for McCain.

  by amnesiaproletariat on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:54:10 PM PDT

  •  Nope -- too late .... n/t

    by sara seattle on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:53:09 PM PDT

  •  Today @ turbine plant in Oregon

    "I will not shirk the mantle of leadership that the United States bears," Mr. McCain said pointedly. "I will not permit eight long years to pass without serious action on serious challenges."

    How very maverickly. And pointy, as the NYT waxes.

    by LaughingPlanet on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:45:35 PM PDT

    •  were the pointed remarks

      intended to distract reporters from noticing his pointy head? Holding up a bright, shiny object. . . never mind, he'd get distracted, too.

      by alizard on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:38:50 AM PDT

•  man, the trolls are out in force tonight

  though I was happy to be informed that I'm upper class and that, as a lifetime resident of Appalachia, all the blatant racism I see on a weekly basis is just a hallucinatory by-product of my elitism.

  by Stroszek on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:55:25 PM PDT

•  It would be interesting if you were to put

  the numbers of the suicides among the troops. The number is very high yet it's not being talked about.

  by pileta on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:57:17 PM PDT

•  McCain, McSame, McStain, McCaint

  Whatever the name I will not vote for the Strait-Jacket Express.

  by MagisterLudi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:58:07 PM PDT

  •  McInane. n/t

    by not a cent on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:09:11 PM PDT

    •  actually, the one thing Rove was

      right about in 2000. . . "Insane" McCain.

      We all thought he was just throwing the same old shit around at the expense of Bush's opponent for the GOP Presidential nomination.

      I will not speculate on just how difficult Rove found it to violate his personal ethics by causing people to tell the truth to the American people.

      by alizard on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:42:08 AM PDT

  •  Gramperor.

    by Troubadour on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:09:14 AM PDT

•  I've only one thing to say to McCain!

  

  by rontun on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:58:11 PM PDT

  •  you need this one

    

    by jlms qkw on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:12:23 AM PDT

•  Until the rethugs

  ...support putting Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, and other assorted lowlife on trial for war crimes, there is no way I will vote for ANY fucking rethug, for any office!

  If Jenna Bush stands on the Dem ticket, I'll be pissed, though!

  by amitxjoshi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:01:37 PM PDT

•  "short of torture, I would not vote for McCain"

  Dick Cheney rubs his hands in anticipation and laughs manically...

  by anth on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:06:14 PM PDT

•  Space...the final frontier

  If you're like more than 160,000 of your fellow site members, you didn't read or rec History for Kossacks: WAS BREAKING – Skylab!!!.  You should - doing so makes moonbats (who are, by nature, space-dwellers) very happy.

  by Unitary Moonbat on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:06:21 PM PDT

•  I listened to McCain speak on the environment

  today and for the life of me I couldn't take the man seriously!

  He sounded like some cute little Disney character. I couldn't help but laugh at his little earnest gestures and intonations.

  When ever I watch McCain this is what I see..

  

  by notquitedelilah on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:08:53 PM PDT

  •  LMAO

    that will be my new visual of McSame every time I hear his name.

    by juslikagrzly on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:14:49 PM PDT

    •  Does Grumpy have a little dog

      that looks like Joe Lieberman?

      by LaughingPlanet on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:20:30 PM PDT

  •  still, at least its progress.

    Its still nice to see the conversation moving forward from denying that their was a problem to starting to talk about solutions. Now we just need to hold their feet to the fire and make sure that we do something that will work.

    by SpiderCrash on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:31:25 PM PDT

  •  Get off my lawn - LOL ....n/t

    by sara seattle on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:51:56 PM PDT

  •  Yeah. Talking about American leadership ...

    ...in environmental matters at a wind turbine plant owned by Danes, Vestas. Their government actually had an energy policy worthy of the name that helped make Vestas a world leader in wind turbine tech. Our government - in the Clinton years, as well - pretty sat on its heels in the renewables field for the past 27 years.

    by Meteor Blades on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:56:10 PM PDT

    •  if I remember correctly, you've mentioned

      working for NREL. Were you involved with the  Aquatic Species Project?

      by alizard on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:44:45 AM PDT

      •  That was after my time ...

        ...My work was as managing editor of the Solar Law Reporter at NREL's predecessor, the Solar Energy Research Institute.

        by Meteor Blades on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:33:03 AM PDT

  •  Personally, when I look at McCain...

    I see Popeye.

    Compare his Wikipedia photo to some of the Popeye cartoons.  And he was in the Navy.  And has a temper.

    by shock on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:09:44 PM PDT

    •  Popeye McCain

      

      by shock on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:36:26 PM PDT

    •  I wonder what would happen

      if somebody fed him a couple of cans of spinach.

      by alizard on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:45:36 AM PDT

•  I'm voting for...

  

  by Trix on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:09:08 PM PDT

  •  The only good elephant

    Is a fictional elephant.

    by buhdydharma on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:21:19 PM PDT

    •  I truly love Babar - spent many enjoyable hours

      with my grandchildren reading all about the adventures of Babar..

      For sure not a Republican elephant - a royalist maybe - but no GOP

      by sara seattle on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:54:56 PM PDT

    •  actually, real elephants (the animals)

      are pretty cool. They live in matriarchal social groups and are intelligent, caring and cooperative creatures. In other words, the elephant as a symbol of the Republican Party makes no sense whatsoever.

      by elmo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:15:19 AM PDT

  •  Had a Child's Song Record of Babar

    from the mid 1950's. I can't begin to imagine the difficulty of turning that up somewhere.

    by Gooserock on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:46:57 PM PDT

    •  nothing is impossible to find

      with ebay.

      husband apparently learned multiplication to a disney record of jiminy cricket.

      he was waxing philosophically and googled.  bought the vinyl from ebay and had it converted to a cd.  

      now the kidlets listen to it.  

      by jlms qkw on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:14:31 AM PDT

•  GOTV Showing

  Is it possible that one of the upsides of tomorrow's primary for Obama is that it will show the power of his GOTV?  Because it seems that he has largely left WV alone and thus if voter turn out is quite low, can that be spun in his favor? I.e., the increased voter turnout is the result of Obama and when his machine isn't working, voter turnout is depressed?

  by 2more4Obama on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:11:39 PM PDT

•  Long day, tired, but NOW

  woooo hooooo!  Come home to see that Obama's picked up 4-5 superdelegates and leads hrc by 8.5-9.5 (DC pick up  not confirmed)

  by juslikagrzly on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:11:50 PM PDT

•  I rather write in Micky Mouse than vote for

  McCain.

  by acnetj on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:12:35 PM PDT

•  I will vote for the Democratic candidate

  for President. And every down ticket Democratic candidate. Period.

  by tgypsy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:14:53 PM PDT

  •  Thank you tgypsy!

    by ruleoflaw on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:48:54 AM PDT

•  Everybody talks about the moles

  But nobody ever grabs a hammer.

  by buhdydharma on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:16:47 PM PDT

  •  whack-a-mole, what a mean game

    If yous gots moles in the yard, stick a few pieces of spearmint gum, chewed in the holes. then, get a large dog to pee near the holes. Either or both together ill do better than whackin' the poor critters, as each tactic scares 'em to the neighbor's yard.

    by LokiMom on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:33:45 PM PDT

    •  How do you get a large dog

      to pee where you want 'em to? My dog may be unusual, but he tends to have his own ideas about where he wants to pee.

      by elmo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:17:11 AM PDT

      •  have a small dog

        pee there first!

        by RiaD on Wed May 14, 2008 at 04:21:59 AM PDT

  •  Grab a hose.

    by Troubadour on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:13:27 AM PDT

•  I'm sorry. I think some of you have not

  actually ever felt fire-ant bites.

  Nice poll, though.

  by lizabroad on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:17:58 PM PDT

  •  Worse than a bee sting to me, but would still

    rather go through that, than vote for one minute of a Bush III presidency.

    by geez53 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:26:41 PM PDT

  •  I have

    and that's why I didn't vote for that option.

    by limpidglass on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:49:19 PM PDT

    •  Me too

      I know my limits.

      by kuulray on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:09:42 AM PDT

•  Wellm I don't know now

  because all the Democrats are telling us all the time how we have to reach out across the aisle and be bipartisan, so we can be date raped or something like that.

  by ActivistGuy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:19:02 PM PDT

•  How about a choice somewhere between

  torture and fire ants?

  by Terre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:19:07 PM PDT

•  On the Poll: other

  I already voted John McCain back in the 2000 primary to try to stop Bush.  I figured Gore and Bradley was 6 of one half a dozen of the other, I didn't know  McCain would end up being McSame too.

  by ActivistGuy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:20:59 PM PDT

  •  I did

    however, I also thought and still think that the age issue is a very strong negative, and I don't see where any GOP presidential candidate can be recycled into a VP plus for the ticket.

    by alizard on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:49:02 AM PDT

•  Didn't Daschle and Kerry ask McCain to be VP

  in 2004? What has McCain done in the past four years to make them change their mind?

  McCain has 26 years experience in Congress so going "toe to toe" with McCain requires someone with experience. He's an alpha male so one had better be a strong candidate  to confront him. Showing weakness will be a deal breaker. Even California is in play. Ohio and Florida seal the deal.

  by candice on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:26:37 PM PDT

  •  Methinks your are still playing the politics of..

    Fail.

    Look, I bring you styrofoam cake.

    by tecampbell on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:46:14 PM PDT

  •  Believe - McCain asked to be V.P.

    and was told ---- NO

    by sara seattle on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:56:13 PM PDT

  •  California's not in play (eom)

    by Stroszek on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:02:23 PM PDT

  •  Biden suggested Kerry should think about ...

    ...running with McCain. And Kerry is said to have met with McCain on this matter - although who reached out to whom is a guess. See here.

    by Meteor Blades on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:06:47 PM PDT

  •  McCain is a dumb, psychotic bully N/T

    McCain is a dumb, psychotic bully N/T

    by Wu Wei on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:45:46 AM PDT

•  Supreme Court. The Great Experiment Concludes nt

  by Gooserock on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:32:02 PM PDT

•  New poll in OR

  Just mentioned on KPTV fox 12 - Obama leads by his biggest margin so far 17%.

  If I can find a link I'll post it.

  by Terre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:33:16 PM PDT

  •  Here's the link

    Poll Shows Double-Digit Oregon Lead For Obama

    They could have titled that a bit better, since he's had a double digit lead on a number of occasions.

    The Portland Tribune-FOX 12 Democratic primary poll, by Davis, Hibbitts & Midghall Inc., shows 51 percent of Oregon Democrats would vote for Obama, while 34 percent would vote for Clinton.  [snip]

    "Every poll done in the last several months has shown Barack Obama ahead in Oregon, but this is the biggest lead so far," Hibbitts said.

    According to the new poll, Obama is winning with male and female voters. He's also ahead in rural areas and is cutting into another part of the populace.

    "One of the messages Clinton has been driving is that Obama is having a hard time with white voters, but here in Oregon, he's clearly doing very well," Hibbitts said.

    by Terre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:49:48 PM PDT

    •  Don't we need to play primaryball

      and say "it's still very tight" so people cast their ballots for him regardless of "poll leads"?

      by LaughingPlanet on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:26:25 PM PDT

•  i've been bitten by fire-ants

  in Mississippi, and it huuuuuurttttss....

  by collardgreens on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:34:00 PM PDT

  •  Me too. And in Texas as well. n/t

    by Meteor Blades on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:03:51 PM PDT

  •  Me In FL. JEEEEEEBUS!! nt

    by Gooserock on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:47:39 PM PDT

  •  Oooooh yeeeeeeah ...

    I couldn't pledge my privates. Even if, as promised by all this e-mail, my little soldier gets promoted from private to Love General ...

    by jazzyndn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:00:38 AM PDT

•  Do you trust Bush/Rove/McCain enough....

  to say "I will" be voting (for whatever candidate you prefer) in 2008?

  I wish I had the faith to believe that this election was going to take place as planned with the actual results counted and the winner inaugurated.  I think we're going to have a hell of a 2008 before we get to 2009.

  After what we've seen, does anyone believe that the forces in control of this country would allow someone with another agenda to take charge?  I can't name one moral or philosophical line they have not been willing to cross for the sake of power.  There simply aren't any.  Why would they stop when the stakes are highest?

  All I can bring myself to say is -- I hope like hell I'll be voting for Barack Obama in Novemer.  And I hope like hell they don't steal this election.  And I hope that, if they do, he fights them in every sense of the word.

  I hope like hell 2009 brings us the America we remember rather than the one we fear most.

  by waydownsouth on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:34:44 PM PDT

  •  think about this and take heart

    Do you think it's kind of odd that McCain has been able to raise relatively little money? What does that say to you?

    To me, it says that the powers that be in the Republican party, the moneyed interests, can see the handwriting on the wall. They know McCain isn't going to be elected, and they're basically fine with that. I think their plan is to let a Democrat (preferably Hillary Clinton) take office and spend political capital doing the hard things that are necessary to begin to clean up the messes made by the Bush administration, then run against that person in 2012 for making those hard choices.

    They hope that Americans are so distracted and befuddled that we will forget in four years all the harm that Republicans have wrought in this country, and that a brief interregnum will let them refresh their tattered brand identity.

    That's a separate problem for us, of course, but in the near term, I think Republicans don't really want to be in the White House for the next four years. They'd much rather sit on the sidelines and snipe.

    by elmo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:25:19 AM PDT

  •  If they stole it from Obama...

    they would have what you might call an "unstable situation" on their hands.  He's not Al Gore - people have invested themselves mind, body, and soul in his vision, and while I'm sure he would urge calm and civility, everything I've seen suggests he wouldn't stand for seeing his country stolen and its freedom sabotaged yet again.  The only certainty about what would follow a rigged election this time around is that it would be bad for Republicans - plausible scenarios run the gamut, but all of them end badly for the GOP.  

    Obama thus presents us with meta-victory (AKA, checkmate): A situation where virtually every decision our enemies could make results in our favor, and their best available options require massive and painful concessions.  However, we shouldn't underestimate the cunning of the deepest villains among them - they'll make the White House a Rube Goldberg machine of traps within traps, turning the disasters sown in the Bush years into a minefield of catch-22s.  Let's hope he plays it cool enough to keep the truly dangerous ones from recognizing his potential too early in the game.

    by Troubadour on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:31:58 AM PDT

•  Is it bad...

  ...that I broke out laughing when I saw the poll option "I think John McCain would be a good president?"

  Naw, couldn't be.

  by jdsnebraska on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:35:54 PM PDT

  •  hmm, Hillary Clinton seems to think so

    although she thinks she'd be better, of course.

    by elmo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:26:21 AM PDT

•  Hazaa and Kudos.

  MB and AM just defined our own 'you're either with us or against us' meme.

  I, for one, firmly believe that not supporting the Democratic nominee this time equates to continuing the regressive policies of the last 7+ years:  war, corruption, nepotism, decay.

  Yes, it helps to have a candidate I respect and am happy to support.  But still.

  Can we stand four more years of war?  Four more years of Regent University grads infilitrating our bureaucracy?  Four more years of decaying levees, bridges, roads, social structures?

  Not to mention two more right-wing SC judges?

  by tecampbell on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:36:34 PM PDT

  •  For the record, just because I post ...

    ...something somebody has written on the Night Owls thread (without a comment from me) does not mean I necessarily agree with it. The whole idea here is to get a discussion going, and I sometimes do not agree with what I blockquote in these threads.

    But, this time I do agree.

    by Meteor Blades on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:02:55 PM PDT

    •  I understand.

      The content of the poll kind of gave your own attitude away though.

      Sorry if I stepped on any toes, nevertheless.

      by tecampbell on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:12:12 PM PDT

      •  You didn't step on any toes. I just wanted to ..

        ...use your comment in particular to make clear in general that just because I post somebody else's something doesn't mean I agree with it.

        Peace.

        by Meteor Blades on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:19:02 PM PDT

  •  Useless and corrupt system

    'you're either with us or against us'

    I do not trust anyone that states "you are either with us or against us".   It is a black and white, 2 choice question which leaves out all the shades of grey.

    I can see many people not voting dependent on the issue or simply washing their hands of the entire corrupt political process.  As a whole, and specifically the democratic leadership, has done almost nothing over the last 8 years to oppose the republicans over key issues such as the war, civil rights/spying, torture, impeachment or the economy.  Sure the democrats are better at voicing the words but have been absolutely useless when it comes to action.  Which then makes me wonder whether they are collaborators voicing the words of opposition or real opposition.

    I am pretty disgusted with the whole political process but will probably vote anyway.  Although this may be the last time.  It seems basically useless.  Why validate such a useless and corrupt system????  

    by Jagger on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:25:46 AM PDT

•  I pulled for McCain when he was running

  against Bush and I think some of that was a reaction to Rove and the absolutely evil tactics that man resorts to in his campaign lust for power.

  But, I also used to basically like Bill and Hill back before this campaign started, so, perhaps my threshold is limited to those who use evil tactics to satiate their lust for power.

  I hope to have the opportunity to vote for Barack Obama for president in November and (although I'm an atheist) I pray that he wins, if that's what it takes.

  by trmasonic on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:41:15 PM PDT

•  YouTube may just have destoryed their site

  if it's found out that their "preventive maintenance" was to stop the O'Reilly Meltdown F-Bomb clip,it seems mighty odd that this was done for the last few hours now just at the time KO would be talking about it.

  by defluxion10 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:44:58 PM PDT

  •  "destroyed" not destoryed I'm always doing that

    with this word,sorry

    by defluxion10 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:47:57 PM PDT

    •  Good story though ----- =) ..... n/t

      by sara seattle on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:58:12 PM PDT

  •  they had site maintenance written

    I've been saying preventive maintenance must be a hold over from my factory days.sorry about that but I'm still wondering about this.

    by defluxion10 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:53:44 PM PDT

•  I Thought We Hit Bottom. I WAS WRONG.

  Examine this web site thoroughly.  It is absolutely bat cr*p crazy.

  http://www.intrade.com/...

  Then ask yourself AGAIN why we got rid of regulations on the markets.

  by ontarget on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:47:21 PM PDT

  •  Next they'll be writing ...

    Next they'll be writing derivatives on the weather.

    by ontarget on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:49:17 PM PDT

  •  Because We Liked What It Did For Us in 1920's nt

    by Gooserock on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:49:46 PM PDT

  •  we aren't the people to ask

    Unless either Phil Gramm or Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton are lurking. (while Hillary didn't do it, she might know why Bill signed off on it)

    by alizard on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:53:53 AM PDT

    •  if it's unpopular or controversial

      Hillary knows nothing, nothing! about what Bill did.

      by elmo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:27:48 AM PDT

•  McCain embodies what the conservative movement

  has become.

  Long gone are the glory days of Reagan and Bush II, where the Republicans could win elections simply by running a grinning idiot with nice hair and a dopey smile (plus a little help from the Supreme Court). Then it was easy for them to bullshit people: just promise to cut taxes and restore them good ol' American values them libruls was trying to destroy, and they were in.

  Now the conservative movement is showing its age, on the defensive, having to explain away its massive failures, no longer able to win over voters by snowing them with a heavy dose of sunny optimism and glad-handling bullshit, unsure of what it stands for beyond an exhausted, bankrupt thirty-year-old ideology that no one is buying anymore.

  And so it is McCain--aging, pugnacious, out-of-touch, tying himself to Bush on issue after issue, yet unable to spout right-wing talking points with anything resembling real conviction--is the true face of what the conservative movement has come to.

  by limpidglass on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:48:29 PM PDT

  •  "Its Age" == "An Indisputable Track Record" nt

    by Gooserock on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:50:36 PM PDT

•  Anyone knows who is on the rules committee??

  Will Obama have a chance - or has it been stacked against him?

  http://news.yahoo.com/...

  The Illinois senator has picked up 26 superdelegates in the past week. At that pace, he will reach the number of delegates needed to clinch the nomination — 2,025 — in the next three weeks, when delegates from the remaining primaries are included.

  Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's best chance to slow Obama is to move the goal posts. She will get that chance May 31 when the Democratic National Committee's rules panel considers proposals to seat the delegates that had been stripped from Florida and Michigan. Those two states violated national party rules by holding their primaries in January and lost their delegates.

  by sara seattle on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:48:40 PM PDT

  •  I heard she already had the goalposts moved.

    New rule is you have to be white.

    by LaughingPlanet on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:30:20 PM PDT

•  Thnak you, McCarthy...

  You put my worst paranoid delusions into perspective!  Glad you said that stuff and not me. How do you avoid using any expletives?

  by ezdidit on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:48:57 PM PDT

•  Verry cool annimation

  http://www.vimeo.com/...

  by SarahLee on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:00:57 PM PDT

•  sorry to disagree but

  when Bush started to pull his you're either with us or the terrorists crap, I objected to it because it was proto-facist, not because he was a Republican.  Individuals can decide to vote for whoever they want to in November, and should do so based on who they believe is the best qualified, most able person who inspires them and reflects their beliefs.  It is the responsibility of the candidates - Obama, Clinton, whoever to INSPIRE people to vote for them, not to scare them into voting for against someone else.  After all, isn't it the Republicans who usually try to paint the world as black and white, scaring people with oversimplified stereotypes?  Finally, those who invoke thinking about 'reality' as part of their argument should practice what they preach rather than making  extravagant claims on its behalf.  Say what you will about the different positions of the candidates (and there are big differences), no one will be able to wave a magic wand and suddenly make Iraq better.  No one will end the nightmare, at least not in the near future, because you cant simply leave from Iraq overnight.  It will probably takes years, no matter who is elected in the fall.

  Finally, to take a step back from this, I'd just like to note that I find the hostility contained in Anthony McCarthy's post to be very disappointing.  Aren't democrats supposed to be better than this?  Aren't we supposed to be the party of inspiration and hope, not fear and divisiveness?  All I can say to Mr. McCarthy and those who agree with him is that I hope you spend your time trying to convince people who are open to McCain why Obama would be the better choice, not call them names or blame them for the consequences of George Bush's mess.

  by Dont Tread on Me on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:05:36 PM PDT

•  This Ought to Hit McSame Hard...

  MoveOn's "Obama in 30 Seconds" ad contest winner:

  by EmilyD on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:13:33 PM PDT

•  Correct me if I'm wrong....

  Let's say Hillary somehow hoodwinks enough supers into giving her the nomination.  She will then enter the general election with $20M in debt to pay off.  Wouldn't that be a pretty big fucking handicap as compared to Obama?  I mean her sole remaining point is that she is somehow the stonger candidate for the general but I think $20M hole kind of ends that, don't you?