Obama Fails to Win Over Racist Vote

*****************************************
UPDATE -- Apparently, there is some confusion over the title.  The title, while 'snarkish' is a response to my absolute irritation at the "Obama fails to win over White Working Class Voters" theme that has been going on.  Whether or not that was an issue, THAT was not THE issue at hand in Tuesday's election.
*****************************************
I have to admit that I awoke today to some surprise at the results in West Virginia.

I had only 'one ear to the ground' so to speak leading up to the contest and heard that it would be a blowout, but I have to admit that I didn't think it would be as bad as it ended up being.

Anyone trying to spin this as good news for Barack Obama is REALLY trying -- I applaud their efforts, but, please, lets be realistic about this.

Having moved to Virginia a few years back, I found that my wife let me in on the 'local' target for debasing jokes and other humiliating ad hominen attacks -- namely, West Virginians.

Not living near the border of WV or having even lived in Virginia long enough, I never really thought that much about it and I honestly thought that it had to be just a local rivalry of sorts.

How bad could the WV result be for Obama, after all he carried Virginia by roughly 64 - 35% -- just how bad could it possibly be!!

Well -- I was certain to find out this morning wasn't I!!!! -- 67 - 26% for Clinton!! ... There is no way to say this -- THAT is a fucking blow out!

Then comes all the "explanations" of Obama's failure to connect with White Working Class voters -- OMG, I am gonna blow an artery if I continue to hear this!  Guess what, I am white. And my family is assuredly 'working class' -- making in the sub 60% of median income for our state!

THE PREVIEW I SHOULD HAVE READ

As a subscriber to the Financial Times I like to consider myself reasonably well informed.  Well, I was to find out that only works if You ACTUALLY read the paper (as opposed to picking it up via osmosis I guess!)

In Monday's edition, Clive Ward reported on Core Democrats question Obama's love of country, and I found out that if I HAD read this on Monday, I wouldn't have been so surprised today.

Like most people in Mingo County, West Virginia, Leonard Simpson is a lifelong Democrat. But given a choice between Barack Obama and John McCain in November, the 67-year-old retired coalminer would vote Republican.

"I heard that Obama is a Muslim and his wife's an atheist," said Mr Simpson,

Ok, I guess this isn't too surprising.  This has been going around for awhile, and there are bound to be outliers that still are believing this.

"If he is the nominee, the Democrats have no chance of winning West Virginia," said Missy Endicott, a 40- year-old school administrator. "He doesn't understand ordinary Americans."

Now this is getting into my "generation" -- How is this even possible that somehow, Barack Obama can be portrayed as not understanding the plight of ordinary Americans -- He talks about this all the time!  And how is it even possible that the Clintons could be seen as anything but Washington insiders that ARE out of touch?

Ms Endicott was among roughly 500 people who crammed into the Williamson Fire Department building on Friday to attend a rally by Bill Clinton, the former president. He told them his wife represented "people like you, in places like this", and urged voters to turn out in record numbers tomorrow to send a message to the "higher-type people" who were trying to force her out of the race.

Well, I guess that is where that message is coming from.  I have to admit that my distaste for Bill Clinton even more than Hillary Clinton grows by the day!

But, is this really a widespread sentiment!?  It can't be:

None of the 22 Democrats interviewed by the Financial Times at the Clinton rally would commit themselves to voting for Mr Obama if he became the nominee, and half said they definitely would not.

Ok, well ... maybe this just represents the internecine battle going on right now!?

Most people questioned said they mistrusted Mr Obama because of doubts about his patriotism and "values" ... Several people said they believed he was a Muslim - ... - despite the contradiction with his 20-year membership of Mr Wright's church in Chicago. Others mentioned his refusal to wear a Stars and Stripes badge ...

Now this is not looking so good.  But I have to tell You, that what finished it off for me is the way Ward finished off his report:

Josh Fry, a 24-year-old ambulance driver from Williamson, insisted he was not racist but said he would feel more comfortable with Mr McCain, the 71-year-old Vietnam war hero, in the White House. "I want someone who is a full-blooded American as president," he said.

How A Millenial, I would assume educated (otherwise I surely don't want to ever need an ambulance in WV) can make such a statement as a Democrat is truly stunning.

I am sorry.  I am sorry that I hadn't read this BEFORE the election.  I am sorry, but, these aren't JUST 'low information voters', and there is no way to simply lump them in as "White Working Class".  These voters are racists.  And I have to admit, that Barack Obama is indeed failing to 'connect' with the Racist voting bloc -- that is something that we are just going to have to accept I guess!

•  Tips for Reading Analysis BEFORE the election

  by josephk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:10:18 AM PDT

•  They aren't going to vote Democratic

  I simply don't believe that those who wouldn't vote for a (half) Afro-American candidate would vote Democratic in the end, either...that someone would rather vote for someone born in Panama than born in Kansas, based on melanin.

  And remember, there are perhaps a million young voters who will turn out ONLY for Obama.

  So stop beating a dead horse. Go out and buy a cup of coffee for an independent, and kill some "McCain is a Maverick" memes.

  by MrMichaelMT on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:13:36 AM PDT

  •  You make a GREAT point

    So stop beating a dead horse.

    For me, this Diary wasn't so much as anything but a PERSONAL blog entry -- like i said, the result was, to me, unexpected.  Had I read Ward's article on Monday when it came out, I would have been better prepared for what was, admittedly, quite a shocking result.

    by josephk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:28:55 AM PDT

•  Five electoral votes.

  That's all WV offers in the fall. It's not going to make a bit of difference if he losses that state. We purged our party of the dixie dems in the 70's and we are purging the mountain racist dems this year. The party will be fine and Obama will be the best POTUS we ever had.

  by psilocynic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:15:07 AM PDT

  •  if gore won WV...

    by Zain on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:16:35 AM PDT

    •  Gore won the 2000 GE.

      He won Florida. The contest was decided by the SCOTUS. Not a good example here. We are all to familiar with the 2000 stolen election.

      by psilocynic on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:18:42 AM PDT

    •  Gore had 267 EVs w/o FL

      i.e. with either FL not being stolen or ANY of Bush's states flipping he would've been at or above the 270 mark. So there's  absolutely nothing special about WV on this point. Therefore, this Clintonite talking point is not really valid (as is the case with 95% of their talking points).

      by NeuvoLiberal on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:28:18 AM PDT

•  "Full-blooded" is code for anyone but black man

  by unertl on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:15:17 AM PDT

  •  Including the Panamanian

    I couldn't believe that line

    John McCain, born in Panama, is a "full blooded American" whereas Barack Obama, born the USA, is not!?!?!?!

    by josephk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:20:55 AM PDT

    •  God, I know.

      I tried to tell my grandmother that yes, he is an American, he was born in Hawaii, and she says, "well, was Hawaii even a state when he was born there?"

      (It was, by the way.  Only just, but still.  And what the f#ck difference would that have made, I wonder??)

      Grrr.  These people can NOT be reasoned with.  Only thing to do is to appeal to the next generation.

      by teyigdhk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:24:22 AM PDT

    •  Hello?

      McCain was born on a US Navy base in the Canal Zone while his father was in the US military.

      Yes, it's ridiculous to suggest Obama is less than a "full blooded American", but it's equally absurd to cast aspersions on McCain for being born in Panama.

      by GreenCA on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:31:50 AM PDT

      •  Yes, exactly

        Yes, it's ridiculous to suggest Obama is less than a "full blooded American", but it's equally absurd to cast aspersions on McCain for being born in Panama.

        i couldn't agree more with You!

        by josephk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:34:54 AM PDT

        •  Glad we're in agreement but...

          ...it's easy to read this stuff about McCain being born in Panama as suggesting that he is somehow less American than Obama (or Clinton, for that matter). I just don't think it's even worth bringing up, and certainly not using as an argument against people who think Obama is somehow less American.

          by GreenCA on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:44:30 AM PDT

      •  Wait a Frackin' minute there

        I have no problem with McCain's American status, nor his qualification to be President by virtue of the Constitution.

        BUT

        McCain does not believe that the inmates in Guantanamo deserve to be treated in accordance with the Constitution of the United States because, and I quote,

        They are not on American soil...

        Oh, the Naval Base in Panama and the Naval Base in Cuba are different because....????????

        ding ding ding ding.... we have a winner.

        The inmates are not fortunate enough to have American parents. Fact that they were kidnapped in their own country and brought to Guantanamo against their will notwithstanding.

        by Patriot4peace on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:41:39 AM PDT

        •  AND ...

          i completely agree with YOU!!!!

          but, i am not even trying to defend McCain's hypocrisy!!!!

          by josephk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:45:40 AM PDT

•  I've resisted the temptation to accuse

  Those fellow white, working-class voters who hate Obama  as 'racist' but WOW, the sh!t coming out of some of them goes way beyond the average misinformation.

  by phillyPete on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:15:57 AM PDT

  •  Authentic Racists will Seize on ANY excuse

    to justify their positions. They may try to put lipstick on the pig, but it's still a pig.

    by Uthaclena on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:18:16 AM PDT

    •  "Obama fails to win racist vote"

      sounds like a headline from The Onion.

      by Dont Just Stand There on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:28:47 AM PDT

  •  So have I

    but reading this report -- from what I find to be a genuinely reputable NEWS source was == enlightening!

    by josephk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:21:55 AM PDT

  •  The Bottomfeeders Of America....

    http://thinkprogress,org/...

    by frandor55 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:22:58 AM PDT

    •  Email Houghton Mifflin on use of Curious George

      [e-mail]

      :(

      [working link to post]... thanks frandor55

      by Junah on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:20:24 AM PDT

•  Fifty Percent of McCain Supporters in 2000

  Said they would "Never" vote for Bush if he were the nominee.  Almost all of them did.  There is no reason to suppose this is any different.

  I have a slightly different read on the "Full Blooded American" comment.  Notice the context by the author.  Specifically the part you chose not to bold:

  he would feel more comfortable with Mr McCain, the 71-year-old Vietnam war hero, in the White House. "

  It is a common perception among "SuperPatriots" that people who serve in our armed forces are "More American" than people do not.  I do not agree with this perception, but when I read the passage that was the meaning I took from it.  Hillary Clinton is just as white as John McCain, and the guy doesn't say "Anybody but Obama."

  In any event I don't see how this diary is helpful.  There are surely racist Democrats in WV (just as there are surely racist Democrats everywhere) but the notion that every single vote Obama doesn't get is due to his skin color is silly and dangerous.  We will need an overwhelming majority of Clinton supporters to vote for him if we want him to win (and I sure do).  Further alienating them with diaries like this serves no practical purpose.

  by TooFolkGR on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:16:51 AM PDT

  •  I'd like to see a link to that

    Fifty Percent of McCain Supporters in 2000

    Said they would "Never" vote for Bush if he were the nominee.  Almost all of them did.

    Where'd you find that, please?

    by bustacap on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:32:47 AM PDT

    •  Actually I Lifted It Out of a Diary...

      ...that I read here earlier today, not really interested in chasing it down.  Also Electoral-Vote.com ran a story about it I'd say... six weeks ago.

      by TooFolkGR on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:55:08 AM PDT

  •  Agreed

    but the notion that every single vote Obama doesn't get is due to his skin color is silly and dangerous.  

    Just as the Hillary people seem to believe that only Misogynist Democrats vote for Obama.

    by Patriot4peace on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:45:56 AM PDT

  •  straw man

    the notion that every single vote Obama doesn't get is due to his skin color is silly and dangerous.

    Nobody said that.

    But this diary and others continually quote so-called "white working class voters" who admit they voted against Obama for racist reasons. I don't know if it's 10% or 90%, but that's the issue. Stop trying to make it about things that nobody really said.

    by catfood on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:47:37 AM PDT

    •  You Are Correct

      The diary merely asserts that "The Racist Vote" cost Obama West Virginia, which is also crap.

      by TooFolkGR on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:56:17 AM PDT

•  Those who voted for Hillary in the Dem primary

  because Obama is Black, would probably vote for McCain in the General because she is a woman.

  Obama will win the Dem nomination without them and then he'll go on to win the presidency without them - these troglodytes are expendable.

  by Lepanto on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:18:19 AM PDT

  •  I am not so sure about THAT

    i used to believe that -- but, with Edwards garnering 7% of the vote -- those people made their voices pretty clear.

    I think it goes beyond that simple of an analysis.

    by josephk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:23:24 AM PDT

  •  I think you are correct

    Not sure I'd call 'em "expendable," but rather they are low-information voters. Probably get all their news from Limbaugh. "Librul" is probably a terrible insult among them.

    Lots of Hillary's support was probably racist, in that they'd prefer she be the Democratic challenger, and a lot of it was likely due to election meddling. Remember that McCain barely got 3/4 of the vote - they probably don't like him, either.

    But they'll vote for him in a landslide.

    We need to see a generation come of age under a Democratic majority administration so that people get a look at what competent government is, and that's how we'll win these voters over later, downstream. They're also gonna need more Internet access, too.

    by The Raven on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:24:40 AM PDT

    •  Enough with the rurally sensitive euphemisms

      "Low information voter?"  Please.  You didn't get that spread in Utah, Nevada or Iowa.  What we have here is a large number of Dumb White Racists.  Grew up with 'em.  Know 'em by sight.  They are Democrats because mining made West Virginia a UNION state.  But Union sentiment doesn't erase generations of prejudice.

      by Redneck Liberal on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:33:41 AM PDT

      •  The only thing I know about WV is what I gleaned

        from driving thru there one time on the way home from an east coast vaca.  We wanted to check out the Greenbrier, which we had always heard alot about.  So here sits this beautiful resort on beautiful grounds, with couples strolling around in the middle of a hot summer day, the women in dresses and heels and the men in sport coats (this is where we said "no thanks")----but anyhoo----right outside the gates of these hundreds of acres of manicured grounds is the most abject poverty I have ever seen.  In all directions.  And for miles and miles along the railroad tracks thru town after old mining town, all in disrepair and ramshackle conditions.
         So I conclude it is a class problem there, a poverty problem, an education problem, a lack of opportunity problem and a fear of the unfamiliar problem.  They are holding on to outdated fears and prejudices because that's all they have.  

        by dotster on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:51:57 AM PDT

      •  OK, you called me on it

        I meant to say "racist hillbillies," but suddenly got all PC on myself. Then again, I'm pretty sure this is AM radio country we're looking at, too.

        by The Raven on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:59:03 AM PDT

  •  I was laughing

    at this sentence before I realized the syntax mistake I made.

    would probably vote for McCain in the General because she is a woman.

    by Patriot4peace on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:47:21 AM PDT

•  Dixiecrats

  Many voters in WV who have a historical affiliation with the Democratic party but who really don't hold democratic values.  They really belong to the GOP, so let them go home....

  by MoreEvolution on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:18:37 AM PDT

•  I don't think Obama

  "failed" to get racists votes.  That's silly.  

  I think the racists failed to overcome their racism.  

  by nolalily on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:18:41 AM PDT

  •  Yeah

    i agree

    but it was more meant as a play on the current meme coming out of the media, namely, "Obama fails to connect with White Working Class voters"

    by josephk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:24:29 AM PDT

  •  The title was snark. n/t

    by teyigdhk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:25:39 AM PDT

  •  Like It Or Not, Racism...

    ... IS the underlying challenge of this election, simply because... a black man! has an actual chance of winning. I suspect retrospective analyses of 2008 will find that to be true.

    It's a test for our time.

    by Uthaclena on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:25:46 AM PDT

    •  Remember Reefer Mania?

      It's going to be like that in November. Bigots and Racists all across America are going to blow their brains out because the president has curly hair.

      Even my GOP challenged mother is fed up with Bush, her head is going to explode trying to decide between Obama and McCain.

      I hope she simply stays home, my very favorite conservative is the one that doesn't vote.

      by Patriot4peace on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:51:05 AM PDT

•  I could rationalize

  the numbers coming out of places like Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania.  Sure, we all know that there are a certain number of people who are blatantly racist.  I'm having a difficult time rationalizing West Virginia.

  I will also say that my parents were both born in Tennessee.  West Virginians were the butt of their jokes, too.  Maybe its just a place that's a lot more backwards than many of us ever thought.

  by tjb22 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:19:41 AM PDT

  •  The toothbrush

    was invented in West Virginia.

    Otherwise it would have been called a Teeth Brush.

    (slaps knee)

    by Patriot4peace on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:07:02 AM PDT

•  *Yawn*

  Obama won Utah, the state that has a university named for a man who said (granted, in the 19th century), "Death is the punishment for interracial marriage."

  by Utahrd on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:20:28 AM PDT

•  What an odd

  title...like:

  "Rabbi fails to win Nazi vote".

  Racists are probably not going to vote for Obama as long as he remains black; I seriously doubt there is an aspect of "Failure" attached to Obama over this.  

  "I hate you because you exist."  How does one deal with that?

  by KibbutzAmiad on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:22:50 AM PDT

  •  snark... ;) n/t

    by Junah on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:24:07 AM PDT

  •  It's like an "Onion" headline

    "Frigid woman dies in Climax"

    A woman from Frigid, North Dakota visiting her daughter in Climax, South Dakota died peacefully in her sleep Sunday afternoon surrounded by loved ones....

    by Patriot4peace on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:12:28 AM PDT

•  WHO in their tight mind

  wants the racist vote? Yeah that would be reliable and someone you could count on when you needed to get out the vote on important issues LOL
  Hillary has tons in common with those people and really? If they believed that line? I don't even want them driving cars let alone voting.

  by Sam In College on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:24:34 AM PDT

  •  That's a new way to refer to close minded people

    If you have a tight mind, you are not open to other points of view.  Someone might be a democrat, but if he has a tight mind, he will never vote for a black man or a white woman.  

    Oh, maybe you missed the "r" and you intended to type "right".  A feudian finger slip maybe :)

    by dangoch on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:35:01 AM PDT

•  Mr. Dooley Discusses Party Politics

  (a quotation):

  "I wondher," said Mr. Hennessy, " if us dimmycrats will iver ilict a prisidint again."
  "We wud," said Mr. Dooley, "if we cud but get an illegible candydate."
  ...
  "I cud think iv a good manny that cud captain a ball team, but whin I come to silictin a candydate f'r prisidint ivry man I think iv is ayther a thraitor or wan that th' thraitors wudden't vote f'r. If we don't get th' thraitor vote we're lost."

  by In Memory of Norman Bethune on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:32:19 AM PDT

•  Congrats... Dkos is thinking like Rove!

  That's right folks, Rove says it is all about racism.  What is wrong with this?  Rove is an ass and an idiot.

  Obama campaigned less than a day in WV.  That is not going to make up for Bill, Chelsea, and Hillary campaign there were long and hard, plus their two decades of being in national politics.

  Had Obama split, he would have gotten 14 delegates.  Instead, with less than a day of campaign, he got 8 or 9 delegates.  He lost 5 or 6.  Whoopie!

  25% of the people are over 60 yrs old.  They likely feel pretty comfortable with the Clintons.  Hillary only beat Obama by 20% amongst the rest of the voters, with less than a day of campaigning.

  Obviously, the Obama camp strategically thought they should spend time in DC and Oregon.

  The simplest explanation is typically just plain stupid.  So let's all stop falling for the racists crap.

  by Fools on the Hill on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:34:48 AM PDT

  •  i would LOVE for You to be right

    (regarding the campaigning stuff, not the Rovian reference)

    but this Diary wasn't written as a post-election analysis

    it was written in direct response to my reading of Monday's article Today ...

    and the linked article seems to speak for itself

    again, I sincerely hope that You are right -- but, I am so seriously not sure that You are!

    by josephk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:43:31 AM PDT

  •  When somebody tells you they're a racist...

    ...you should probably believe them.

    by catfood on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:43:43 AM PDT

•  Racist vote is not democratic

  Look, I'm of the opinion that anyone who says that race is a major deciding factor in their voting should be shown the door. I don't want those people in the Democratic party. F them. Clean house. If you can't vote for a man who is 1/2 white!, then screw you. You deserve what you get.

  I'm beyond the point of appeals to "understanding" for those who can't look past the color of someone's skin to their worth as a human being. If these people can't take the G--damn confederate flag stickers off their pickup trucks long enough to vote for someone who is trying to change politics in Washington, then I have no place for them in any kind of national party.

  Disclaimer: My parents were racist when I was growing up, and yet my stepfather voted for Obama. That's a huge sea change!

  by mediaprof on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:35:50 AM PDT

•  Obama should be proud that he lost the white

  racist vote in West Virginia...maybe that is the real truth here..his candidacy has exposed an ugly fact about West Virginia..makes you wonder about Jay Rockefeller though..is West Virginia what happens when the Oligarchy finally completes their efforts at dumbing down the population and impoverishing the whole people of this country..is West Virginia the rest of the country in a few years..??

  by RubyGal on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:35:57 AM PDT

•  Why can't Obama 'seal the deal' with racists? n/t

  by drbloodaxe on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:36:13 AM PDT

•  Well................

  it's convenient that he doesn't NEED the racist vote, then isn't it.

  by AlyoshaKaramazov on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:40:54 AM PDT

•  As a Proud West Virginian, your diary is bullshit

  Disclaimer I actually voted for Sen. Obama via my absentee ballot, but last night I wish I had my vote back because he deserved the ass kicking he got in West Virginia.

  I'm sick and tired of Obama supporters putting down West Virginia and saying Obama lost West Virginia because there are a bunch of racists.

  If West Virginia is so racist, why is my Congressman an Arab-American?  Can you tell me that?  He's one of only two in the U.S. Congress if I'm not mistaken.

  Here's why Obama lost West Virginia.

  1. His lazy ass wouldn't campaign here.  He thought he could spend some money on tv and radio ads and influence the voters.  Well he was WRONG!  West Virginians want to get the know the candidates like voters in Iowa and New Hampshire.

  2. West Virginia loves Bill and Hillary Clinton.  They actually came to West Virginia and went through every small town and hollow asking for votes.  Had Obama done the same he might not have got his ass handed to him last night.

  3. Obama has a problem with some working class white voters; voters that he is going to need if he ever wants to become president.  Contrary to popular belief, there's not enough votes in every Starbucks in the country for Obama to win President.  If the only thing people know about him is he 1) has a funny name, 2) had a radical preacher, and 3) doesn't wear an American flag lapel pin, of course people are going to vote for him.  He should have came here and told people who he was.

  4. Obama didn't even win the young people in West Virginia.  He couldn't even hold the demographics he has been winning in other states.

  On a lighter note, I think Sen. Obama will make a great President, but Obama supporters need to quit this bullshit about not needing places like West Virginia.  The last thing you should be doing is throwing racist sour grapes at the people of West Virginia.  Doesn't help your candidate (it actually hurts him) and it makes it that much harder on me trying to convince people to support him here in West Virginia in the fall.

  by Mountaineer Maniac on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:43:50 AM PDT

  •  edit to previous post

    Correction to point 3.  of course people are not going to vote for him.

    by Mountaineer Maniac on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:48:31 AM PDT

    •  Number 3 is the Key

      Obama has a problem with some working class white voters; voters that he is going to need if he ever wants to become president.  Contrary to popular belief, there's not enough votes in every Starbucks in the country for Obama to win President.  If the only thing people know about him is he 1) has a funny name, 2) had a radical preacher, and 3) doesn't wear an American flag lapel pin, of course people are going to vote for him.  He should have came here and told people who he was.

      listen, i 'feel Your pain' -- more time than not i have been irritated by people's attitudes about Virginia

      but, i didn't "make up" the report that I was commenting on.  -- it is, admittedly, my interpretation.

      but seriously, if You can't see the racism that is evident in this report, and to a degree, Your own comment, then ... well, You and i just disagree.

      by josephk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:53:20 AM PDT

      •  Race was only one subpart of the results

        I don't so much disagree with the report, I disagree with the blanket generalization.

        Yeah, part of the whipping Obama got in WV yesterday had to do with his race.  I'm not naive enough to disregard that; however, it's a part of a lot larger problem.

        The thing that gets me the most is, I know Sen. Obama could connect with the people of West Virginia.  The people here already didn't know much about him (just what they hear on tv and yes some of them do watch Foxnews which makes matters worse) and by him not coming here and disputing some of the falsehoods and instead choosing to ignore WV, the people here felt even more slighted by him.

        I think last night's result was more of WV loving the Clintons than WV being racist.  I don't like Obama supporters playing the racist card to justify the beating he took last night.  That might have been part of it, but if one looks deeper, he/she will find there was a lot of issues at play last night, only one being race.

        by Mountaineer Maniac on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:09:22 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for calling bullshit (n/t)

    by In Memory of Norman Bethune on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:49:23 AM PDT

  •  I don't disagree with

    most of your points.  Send this piece to the media, however.  This is where much of the "problem with white voters" garbage is coming from.  

    by tjb22 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:55:37 AM PDT

  •  Wow.

    An african american has a 'lazy ass'.
    Ok, that's snark, but you're off base too.

    1. He did NOT think he could spend a bit of money on ads and influence the voters.   He may have incorrectly thought he COULDN'T influence the voters by being there, so didn't try.

    2. WV loves Bill and Hillary.  You don't say they love them BECAUSE they came through and asked for votes, you state first that they do love them.

    3. Insert HRC and news pundit meme.  Insert second HRC/news pundit meme.

    4. a valid point.

    I'm only guessing, just like you're only guessing, but I don't think he feels 'he doesn't need WV'.  I think he realized based on extrapolations over the rest of the Appalachian region that he was going to lose hard to HRC, and felt that it would look worse for him to campaign hard and lose hard, than to campaign very lightly and lose hard.

    Plus, by turning his attention to the GE he feeds the 'it's over meme' that many of us felt was appropriate back in February.  It's extremely rare for any primary to be actively contested this long.  There are always states that do not affect the overall outcome unduly at the end of the season.  It doesn't mean 'they don't matter'.

    And lastly, folks aren't throwing 'racist sour grapes'.  They may very well be wrong on the racism, but this is the exact outcome everyone EXPECTED before the primary in WV, so it can't really be sour grapes.  

    I'm not going to slam WV, expect snarkily, but you can't dismiss racism entirely, when story after story after story pops up of volunteers talking to WV'ers who blatantly tell them they won't vote for Obama because he's black, or that he 'needs to be strung up'.  It doesn't explain every vote, it may not explain most votes, but you can't deny it exists there, the same as it exists in my home state, where we heard the same sorts of comments.

    by drbloodaxe on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:12:16 AM PDT

  •  Good counterpoint, but let's not whitewash it

    You make some excellent counterpoints here and I hope they are heeded.

    On the other hand, I've spent a bit of time in West Virginia myself and I found it to be more overtly racist than Texas Gulf coast locales like Vidor and Clute.

    Confederate states were forced — literally at gunpoint — to quell their racist traditions.  Kentucky and West Virginia are every bit as "southern" as their Confederate neighbors, but they were Union states.  At the end of the Civil War, they were considered fine the way they were.

    And guess what?  They haven't had to face their racist past the way states like Georgia, Tennessee and Alabama have.  They never had their "Selma".

    The very first slave rebellions (in the 1600's) were staged by Irish indentured servants and African slaves working together.  The Irish knew the language and the Anglo-centric culture and their facilitation allowed the Africans to be part of an effective rebellion.  In order to mitigate this problem, the British colonialists told the Irish that they were better than the Africans.  Technically, the indentured servants had a possibility of freedom (if they survived long enough, which they rarely did), and that was just enough truth the drive a wedge between the Irish and Africans.  The Irish now felt closer to their British oppressors, and without the Irish help, the Africans were less effective due to cultural isolation.

    Could this artificial division between oppressed whites and oppressed blacks still be in play today?  Let's consider another example.

    After World War I, the British and French controlled the Arabian Peninsula.  The British were hated everywhere and faced fierce insurgencies.  In Palestine, there were not only Arab Muslims, but Jews as well, all hell bent on doing whatever it took to get the British to leave.  The British found the situation in Palestine a bit easier to manage, as they successfully turned the Jews and Arabs against on another which took a lot of the heat off of them.

    The British are gone now, but what still remains?

    The racism.

    by The Red Pen on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:12:41 AM PDT

•  West Virginia demographics

  By way of comparison, look at Missouri, which Obama barely won, but did win.  There are 114 counties in Missouri and Obama won only 5.  He won the big population centers but Clinton won huge in the rest of the state.  The only difference with West Virginia is that it does not have the big population centers that Missouri has.  Without these, Clinton would have won Missouri bigtime, just as she did West Virginia.

  by winsock on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:07:05 AM PDT

  •  I think we have a winner.

    Classic democratic problem.  We do well in cities and urban centers, not so well in rural/outlying areas.  That's why I'm optimistic about Ohio....we had votes in  many of the cities going to Clinton.  These people most certainly will vote for Obama in November.  And one way or the other, we'll pull just enough in from the rural areas.  That's all we have to get... JUST ENOUGH.

    by tjb22 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:17:23 AM PDT