Doug Kmiec denied communion for supporting Obama

I don't know if anyone has done a diary on this. Obama supporter, Catholic and former constitutional lawyer to Reagen, Doug Kmeic was denied communion by a college chaplain before he was to speak in front of Catholic business leaders.

Kmiec wrote on article on Catholic online talking about this situation. I am not a Catholic and I'm not particularly religious but I think this is ridiculous that someone can be denied communion just because they support a particular Presidential candidate.

Doug Kmiec writes:

Having been drawn to Senator Obama’s remarkable "love thy neighbor" style of campaigning, his express aim to transcend partisan divide, and specifically, his appreciation for faith ("secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square"), I did not expect to be clobbered by co-religionists.

On the blogs, I have been declared "self-excommunicated," and recently at a Mass before a dinner speech to Catholic business leaders, a very angry college chaplain excoriated my Obama-heresy from the pulpit at length and then denied my receipt of communion.

I agree with Kmiec sentiment that Obama does draw people to him on this issue in a way because he doesn't actually look at abortion as an option woman use to get out of taking care of a child. I consider myself more in line with how Obama looks at this. I don't think it's right for the Catholic church excommunicate someone just because they choose to support a candidate or an individual for any particular reason.

It won’t help now that the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL) has endorsed Obama over Clinton. This is an endorsement that is deeply troubling unless the good Senator Obama intends to match it with the sobering acknowledgment that abortion is less "right," than avoidable tragedy.

This is a good idea, but I'm not actually sure if Obama will do it. I think Obama should reach out to Kmiec on this and show his support though.  Since the NARAL endorsement has caused such an uproar, I think it would be wise of Obama to speak out about it and try to bring the gap. I will admit the blowback on NARAL on the endorsement is ridiculous to me. They have the right to endorse who they want.

But there's a deeper question: Are Catholics -- indeed people of all faiths and no faith -- who address the wrenching economic or social circumstances or misinformation that pressure a mother into believing she has no alternative but to take the life of her unborn, really pro-abortion?

Governor Kathleen Sebelius was also denied communion for her support of Obama.

So, with the Democratic governor's political star rising, the registered Republican Archbishop of Kansas City revived the use of Holy Communion as a political weapon to take her down. He publicly called on her to stop taking Communion with her Catholic community, because of her widely-known opposition to the use of criminal law in dealing with abortion. In a Catholic newspaper column, Archbishop Joseph Naumann indicated that he had made the request because he had been angered by her vetoes of several Republican bills restricting abortion in Kansas. In her most recent veto message, Gov Sebelius offered a detailed description of the lengths to which she had gone to address the abortion issue constructively, and lauded the success her administration had achieved in decreasing its incidence

Criminal law in dealing with abortion? Religious leaders on either side should not be using their position in the Church to deny others communion or bare them from any other practice. I think it would be great if Obama could come out and do a speech on this issue. What he said at the Compassion Forum was very important and I think more people should understand how he feels on this issue.

Here is his Pepperdine University email if you want to express your thanks for his endorsement and perseverance.

[e-mail] and his profile.

•  Wow. Great diary.

  by ObamaManiac2008 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:40:13 PM PDT

  •  Gee...perhaps these churches

    should be denied tax free status if they are taking political stands...ya think?

    by trinityfly on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:04:42 PM PDT

    •  Absolutely! nt

      by ObamaManiac2008 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:09:06 PM PDT

      •  It's ok to *uck little boys

        but Pope forgive you if you don't tow the line on Abortion?

        I guess since you can get a little boy pregnant it's an exception?

        by Jimmy Crackcorn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:24:43 PM PDT

        •  Good point. Very good point. Man, these

          people are just total hypocrites to deny communion.

          I remember when I was going to Catholic school, my friend's mom was basically single and was having "relations" out of wedlock.  And the Priest came down hard on her, admonishing her severely, but then had no problem turning around and asking her for money.

          These people!

          by ObamaManiac2008 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:31:55 PM PDT

        •  I doubt they think child molestation is OK.

          eom.

          by burrow owl on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:34:18 PM PDT

          •  I don't know...you think they would have

            'done something' about it a little sooner than they did if they thought it was wrong.

            Just the opinion of a 'lapsed' Catholic who had two brothers who were hit on by priests while in grade school.

            EVERYBODY KNEW as it turned out...on to the 'lapsing' we went.

            by trinityfly on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:53:10 PM PDT

            •  You think they might be OK w/ child molestation?

              Sure, Ok.

              by burrow owl on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:00:59 PM PDT

              •  They were then...

                ...and from my family's experience, I sure not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt now.

                But don't let me harsh your buz...

                by trinityfly on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:08:45 PM PDT

  •  No. Not a great diary. Not at all.

    You need to read the entire Kmiec piece it links to.
    Good ole Doug is veeeery unhappy about the NARAL endorsement, and wants Obama to make pro-choicers as uncomfortable as he's made anti-abortion folk (using a DKos comment to make his point)
    He speculates about a recent opinion piece that claims Obama is subject to a death warrant from Muslims because he left that faith and became a Christian - which we have already thoroughly debunked. But Doug K. is still in the "I don't know enough to have an opinion" and "as far as I know" mode.

    It has become all too common for American Catholic clergy to castigate parishioners, and even to deny communion, to those who have in any way shown themselves open to a pro-choice position or candidate. Given the other element of Kmiec's article I really have to doubt that he was criticized specifically for supporting Obama. Even he refers to his views as "Obama-like", while simultaneously calling on Obama to be more balanced by supporting adoption over abortion.  

    Similarly, the Sibelius article talks about her position against using criminal sanctions against abortion. Not word one about Obama specifically.

    This diary is unnecessarily inflammatory and rabble rousing.

    by Catte Nappe on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:04:27 PM PDT

    •  Good points. I didn't realize Doug was in that

      camp.  I will be more vigilant in the future.

      by ObamaManiac2008 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:38:44 PM PDT

•  These priest are against the Pope

  The Pope gave Pelosi communion.  Why do these priest supporter murders?  Really why do they give any Bush supporter communion?  

  That was part of the Pope's point in visiting the U.S. this year.  Where does this parish get their money from?

  by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:40:41 PM PDT

  •  There's a combination of factors....

    ...but basically it's up to the Bishop:

    Benedict's spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, later said the pope was not setting a new policy and did not intend to formally excommunicate anyone. But Lombardi added that politicians who vote in favor of abortion should refrain from receiving Holy Communion.

    Here'sa lengthier one explaining how publicy known you are matterss.

    The Catholic Church condemns abortion,3  euthanasia,4  sodomy,5  cloning,6  embryonic stem cell research,7 as well as other attacks against the sanctity of life and the family. It is the obligation of the bishop to follow canon law. Canon Law n.915 mandates the denial of Communion to all "manifest, obstinate, persistent sinners," including but not exclusive to politicians.8

    Canon 915 not only protects the Eucharist from sacrilegious reception, but also prevents the faithful from sorrowful scandal.

    It's important to understand what 'manifest, obstinate, persistent' means. Many wrongly think it applies only to politicians.9 This is not so.

    If a Catholic is a 'manifest' sinner, that means he is 'known,' or 'public.' This must be differentiated from the Catholics who are in the state of 'private' grave sin, to whom their sin is known only to themselves and God. The private grave sinner cannot be denied the Eucharist because their sin is unknown to the bishop, to his priests, and his ministers of the Eucharist.

    If a Catholic is gravely 'manifest' and 'obstinate' in his sin, that means he pigheadedly continues to 'persist' or 'stand firm' in grave sin that is 'public' in nature and causes scandal to others. This is quite different from those who persist in 'private' sin.

    'Catholic' pro-abortion politicians are certainly manifest, obstinate and persistent sinners and they are thus subject to the provisions of c.915.10

    Leaving it up to the Bishop allows for local culture and laws...

    by kck on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:55:36 PM PDT

    •  And the richest people in the area n/t

      by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:56:37 PM PDT

    •  they can't pick and choose their outrage

      Aren't these the Bishops that allowed the priest that abused the children get away with it. Where was their moral standing then. It just makes them two faced.

      by larryww on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:01:53 PM PDT

      •  I don't think they are.

        How are they doing that?

        FWIW, I think they're perfectly consistent assholes.  They're not hypocritical; in fact, they are perfectly self-consistent in their dickheadedness.

        by burrow owl on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:35:41 PM PDT

      •  Sadly, like outside of the priesthood, authority

        ...doesn't come automatically with ability or moral substance. Nor does responsibility.  Selective Bishops have been publicly punished and we're told private punishment has been meted.  But they're human, make no claims otherwise, their authority is administratively allocated. There are some Bishops who are political animals, carnivorous. The Pope seemed genuinely pleading for forgiveness when he was here. I'm not Catholic but the problem to me was the institutional obstruction to justice and healing and the expectations that any male organization would be different.

        by kck on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:03:11 PM PDT

    •  The really scandalous thing is that most

      American Catholic bishops are registred Republicans.

      by Lepanto on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:18:57 PM PDT

      •  Are they? That used to be different.

        by kck on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:03:56 PM PDT

•  And this is why I am no longer Catholic

  Being pro-choice and pro-GLBT rights will get you denied communion but being pro-death penalty, pro-war, pro-poverty (like the Republicans) won't?

  Fuck that.

  by BrighidG on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:41:33 PM PDT

  •  I'm not Catholic but I do know that

    It is coming from the parishes.  Some parishes and whole diocese are the domain of the richest person in the area.  Like the Coors family (or the Princes).  The American Church (and I think the South American Church) has really became decentralized to a fault.  The Vatican needs to rein them in.  It's obvious that the corruption has reached new levels.

    by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:44:00 PM PDT

    •  I agree with this

      The American Church (and I think the South American Church) has really became decentralized to a fault.

      And politicized as well. Which is why some churches choose to focus on the pro-life/anti-gay part of Catholicism ignoring the pro-social justice/anti-death penalty/anti-war part.

      by BrighidG on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:46:49 PM PDT

    •  except for one little problem...

      The Pope recently re-affirmed the Vatican stance against all forms of birth control (with the exception of the rhythm method aka Vatican Roulette).

      Opposing birth control at a time when overpopulation is threatening to cause ecological catastrophe on an unprecedented scale, is in effect condemning millions, perhaps billions of humans, to death from starvation, resource wars, epidemic disease, and so on.  

      In short, opposition to birth control is support for slow-motion genocide.

      It's time for a major soul-search on that one.  

      by G2geek on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:05:23 PM PDT

    •  The Catholic Church? Too decentralized?

      Man, I don't that's a complaint that's ever been voiced.  Except, possibly, by the Pope.

      by burrow owl on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:36:54 PM PDT

  •  Me too n/t

    by iampunha on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:45:24 PM PDT

•  Fear the wrath of

  the Flying Spaghetti Monster, lest you be whipped by his noodle-y appendages!

  by In Memory of Norman Bethune on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:42:49 PM PDT

  •  Does this mean

    I'll be denied my parmesan?

    by BoiseBlue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:43:27 PM PDT

    •  No

      garlic toast for you!

      by operculum on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:59:52 PM PDT

•  Lame

  They denied Kerry communion as well.

  They need to stay out of it.

  by BoiseBlue on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:43:00 PM PDT

  •  They threatened to but didn't do it n/t

    by Noisy Democrat on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:43:16 PM PDT

•  It's absurd

  Canon Law is clear that someone can be denied Communion only if they are in a manifest state of grave sin. I'm not a Canon lawyer, but I know enough to know that Catholics are perfectly free to support any candidate, provided that they're not choosing the candidate specifically because of his or her pro-choice views. Barack Obama represents a whole panoply of values that should appeal to any devout Catholic. To say that supporting the opponent of John McCain puts one in a state of grave sin is beyond absurd, and it shows the unfortunate inroads that some on the Right have made in politicizing some segments of the Church.

  by Noisy Democrat on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:43:03 PM PDT

  •  Exactly.

    This situation does not reflect the normal Catholic stand. Here we have the case of a priest who could and should be accused of a grave abuse and be disciplined accordingly by his bishop to the extent of being barred from ministry. If the bishop is in cohoots with the priest then he should be denounced to the Vatican and dealt accordingly.

    by Lepanto on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:55:14 PM PDT

  •  and they're also breaking the law.

    Churches are tax exempt but in exchange for that exemption the law says that they, and other tax-exempt organizations such as educational, scientific, and charitable nonprofits, must not engage in supporting or attacking candidates for public office, must not lobby for or against legislation, and must in general refrain from engaging in partisan politics.

    The denial of a core religious sacrament to members of the church on the grounds that they support a particular candidate for public office is a clear violation of that law.  In a religious sense it threatens church members with alienation from God, and in a social sense it threatens them with ostracism.  Both of these are powerful coercive forces being put to distinctly, directly, and unmistakably partisan ends.  

    Time to start the IRS investigations, even if they don't get too far until Obama takes the oath of office.  

    by G2geek on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:00:48 PM PDT

    •  You forget the "IOKIYAR" exception.

      It was written into IRS law in 2001, IIRC.

      by beemerr90s on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:37:46 PM PDT

•  wow, how dare this priest - state of grace

  should be determined by the person receiving communion.  So in other words, he's guilty of the sins of another??? So is the pope and bishops all guilty of the pedophile priests sins?  Shouldn't they all be denied communion as well?  What hypocrisy!

  by kenjisan on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:43:23 PM PDT

•  Catholicism is overrated

  The parties are long-winded affairs where one person monopolizes the conversation and sometimes the singing goes on and on and everyone is expected to join in. There's a lot of standing up and sitting down and kneeling and walking up to the guy who talks a lot so he can feed you a cookie, which will be the only thing you'll be able to eat the whole time.

  I understand the Pastafarians have a much better spread.

  by banjolele on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:44:23 PM PDT

•  How many times did I receive communion...

  ...from a pederast when I still went to church? Huh?  

  How many times did someone who raped little boys get up on his pulpit and tell me I was a sinner for being pro-choice?

  How manu times can the old, soulless men who covered up the crimes against children and unleashed them upon unsuspecting parish after parish tell me I can't receive the grace of Jesus Christ because I believe in birth control?

  Fact is, folks, "communion" is just a stale, tasteless cracker...if you want to receive the grace of Christ, try acting like him instead of stoning the very people he spent his short life defending...

  by Aqualad08 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:45:19 PM PDT

  •  Amen. n/t

    by Unseen majority on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:50:47 PM PDT

•  Is abortion mentioned in the New Testament?

  Being Jewish I'm not familiar with it. Do they also refuse communion to polluters who violate the Bible's directive that we be the caretakers of this earth?

  by jhecht on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:45:42 PM PDT

  •  Poverty and helping the poor sure is n/t

    by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:46:47 PM PDT

  •  Really this isn't about the Church on a whole

    As much as it is about the American Catholic church.

    by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:47:09 PM PDT

  •  No, abortion isn't in the Bible

    There is something in the Hebrew scripture about compensating a woman for causing her to lose her pregnancy and it is talked about as comparable to loss of limb. Don't remember the exact location.  Maybe somebody else cares enough to look it up.

    by notksanymore on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:48:20 PM PDT

•  Write the Vatican.

  Really Catholics and non Catholics should write the Vatican.  This is in direct disagreement w/what the Pope said while he was here.  The Vatican needs to rein in these priest.  They give Pat Buchanan (a racist anti Semite) communion...Really this is why the Church has lost many young people.  Hypocrisy.

  by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:46:19 PM PDT

•  Pious Hypocrites!

  Isn't there something about getting the plank out of your own eye before trying to take the speck out of someone else's eye in the Bible?  The Roman Catholic church needs to focus on their own sins for a good long while.

  by notksanymore on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:46:45 PM PDT

  •  And right wing converts sent to cement the

    unholy anti-abortion alliance with the church.

    by snackdoodle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:57:10 PM PDT

•  no wonder

  the Catholic church is in such decline.  Were it not for immigrants, legal and illegal, from Mexico and other Central and South American countries, it would be in even worse shape.

  by bigforkgirl on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:48:28 PM PDT

  •  They are in worse shape...

    From Inter Press

    The loss of Catholic faithful "is a painful reality that calls out dramatically to us as pastors of Latin American churches," said Cipriano Calderón, a member of the Vatican Congregation for Bishops and former president of the Pontifical Commission for Latin America.

    In Brazil, where there are more Catholics than in any other country in the world -- roughly 100 million, out of a total population of close to 180 million -- close to half a million followers are leaving the Catholic church every year.

    Something similar is happening in Mexico, the country with the second largest number of Catholics. Roughly 88 percent of its 102 million inhabitants today identify themselves as Catholics, revealing a decline of almost 10 percent compared to the mid-20th century.

    In Colombia, only two out of every three people profess themselves Catholics today, when almost the entire population was Catholic in the 1950s.

    The phenomenon is particularly marked in Guatemala, where almost one-third of the country's 12 million inhabitants have left the Catholic church, and most of those leaving have converted to evangelical Protestantism.

    Meanwhile, 71.3 percent of Costa Rica's 4.2 million people declare themselves to be Catholic today, when just one year ago, a full 77 percent professed this faith, according to a survey conducted by the department of mathematics at the public University of Costa Rica.

    However, another poll carried out by Unimer Research International, a private firm, revealed that 52 percent of the Costa Ricans consulted "no longer believe" in the Catholic church, while only 44 percent said they do believe.

    According to the Costa Rican Episcopal Vicariate, the Catholic church is currently losing an average of 658 followers a day in that Central American nation.

    by duckhunter on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:20:01 PM PDT

•  Perhaps it's time to tax the churches

  If the churches are going to push a political agenda then their tax exempt status must be examined. We might even balance the budget if we started taxing the churches. This could be a good thing.

  by MagisterLudi on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:48:40 PM PDT

  •  They are pushing an agenda against

    the Vatican agenda.  I mean not conserving the environment is now a big sin according to the Pope, but you don't' see people not getting Communion bc they have an SUV.

    My point is let's attack the parishes that have become over politicized and rejected the Vatican authority.  That's our real fight.  Not the church its self.

    by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:51:05 PM PDT

    •  There are a lot of parishes that are

      over-politicized. Not to the point that they are denying Communion, but there are suggestions that being pro-choice might lead to that. This is not necessarily a directive from the Church, but more and more conservative priests are becoming politicized and urging parishioners to vote for candidates espousing the Church's views, which are traditionally conservative. We even had voter registration in one church outside Chicago, something I've never seen in all my years as a Catholic. One seldom heard any political speeches from the pulpit in years past, but that is changing. It's great that the Vatican is going green, but I'm uneasy about the rest of the political activity I'm starting to see in churches. If pastors start telling their parishioners it's a sin to cast their vote for a particular candidate, that's a problem.  

      by MagisterLudi on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:08:54 PM PDT

      •  Yeap it's a big problem and the Vatican needs to

        nip it in the bud now.

        by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:14:06 PM PDT

•  Such priests tend to forget

  Jesus' words to those about to stone a woman accused of adultery: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." A little humility and searching of their own consciences is long overdue on the part of catholic clergy.

  by Valatius on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:49:20 PM PDT

•  It's like the old system

  Some of the priest are more loyal to the rich who are giving their parish money then the actual Vatican.  Basically some are buying salvation.

  by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:52:24 PM PDT

•  how about Giuliani?

  didn't he recieve communion a few weeks ago in Yankee stadium when the pope dropped by?

  by soros on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:54:38 PM PDT

  •  Yes and so did Pelosi

    I think that was the point.  Neither party is the "Jesus" party.

    by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:57:57 PM PDT

•  Ave San Republicano!

  Ave San Republicano, patron saint of coat hangars and "ex-gay ministries".  Holiest art thou amongst all the pantheon of saints, San Republicano!

  by ActivistGuy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:54:45 PM PDT

•  IF Governor Kathleen Sebelius was denied

  communion for being an Obama supporter.

  Can't our country "deny" the Catholic church their "tax exempt" status?  

  It seems obvious that they are taking endorsing one candidate by this sort of treatment to supporters of the other.   And it looks suspiciously like a pattern.  

  by ruscle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:55:34 PM PDT

  •  There are many denominations and churches

    including Catholic parishes in which members are given instructions, many times in print, about which way voters should vote in elections in this country. I was totally amazed to discover this over the years. I think that if the churches wish to participate in pushing election results, it is clearly time to cut the financial ties of religion and state. Silly me. I thought we had done this but the current crop of crusaders tells us we haven't been successful and we are losing ground. Speaking to anyone on an intellectual or spiritual level about this doesn't cut it. Time to cut the purse strings for every offender and time to cut the rhetoric from our politicians who encourage use of religion as a measure of patriotism.

    by Erica Jan on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:27:44 PM PDT

    •  I agree 100%

      I was dismayed to learn that many older churches, Catholic and otherwise -- churches that have huge buildings but tiny congregations that could not possibly pay the maintenance -- many of these such churches are endowed.  They have their operating expenses covered, even if they provide no service or benefit to the community.  

      by ruscle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:52:58 PM PDT

•  Excuse me?

  I'm not a Catholic, but didn't the Pope recently condemn wars of aggression, and specifically the Iraq War?  If that's the case, then maybe this priest should be denying communion to McCain supporters as well, since McCain has said we're going to be in Iraq anywhere from five to 100 years (choose your number).  Give me a break.  This is a case of a priest exceeding his authority for political purposes.  Either he condemns ALL killings (including wars and capital punishment), or he is shown to be the hypocrite that he is.  (It's called the "seemless garment" by Catholics- you can look it up.)

  by Zorba the Greek on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:56:43 PM PDT

  •  Pardon me

    "Seamless garment."  Sorry for the misspelling.  I was a bit upset.

    by Zorba the Greek on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:59:25 PM PDT

  •  ach, don't blame the Pope on this one

    the problem is that most American Catholic Bishops are thick as thieves with the Republican establishment

    by Lepanto on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:23:17 PM PDT

    •  Peace, brother

      I'm not blaming the Pope- I'm blaming the priest.  I agree with you about most American Catholic Bishops.

      by Zorba the Greek on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:06:12 PM PDT

•  Smebody better tell these idiots

  That Pelosi was just given communion, with the Pope in attendance!! This idiocy must end. The Catholic Church has a lot of fences to mend after covering up the sexual abuse of children for decades. If they want to keep people from leaving the church en masse, they'd better stop this ship that alienates people.

  by gladkov on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:58:13 PM PDT

  •  Why don't you tell them Write the Vatican

    They need to rein in the priest here b4 the alienate a whole generation of people.

    by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:59:17 PM PDT

•  Thanks. As a general rule I find myself on

  the opposite side of most legal issues. His support for Obama surprises and please me and this action by the Catholic Church revolts me. How dare they.

  by Gary Norton on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:58:38 PM PDT

•  Vatican Switch board Number +39.06.6982

  I can't find an email address.  We should not let this go.  Unless they are going to deny all members w/suvs Communion then this needs to stop.  

  by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:04:18 PM PDT

  •  The Catholic Church is not a democracy...

    It is, was and never shall be a democracy.

    by duckhunter on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:26:18 PM PDT

  •  email address to use

    Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

    [e-mail]

    by Lepanto on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:36:22 PM PDT

    •  Thanks n/t

      by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:39:35 PM PDT

•  When I was in Iowa, one of the most ...

  enthusiastic Obama supporters was a local Catholic priest.  He said that he disagreed with Obama (and most Democrats) on abortion, but that wasn't the only important issue, and that he agreed with Obama on the vast majority of issues (including the vast majority of issues on which the Catholic Church had taken a position).

  by leevank on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:08:50 PM PDT

•  Jesus would never have denied communion

  His blood was shed for sinners, for the forgiveness of sins.

  We are all sinners.  Why in the world would He want anybody to be excluded?

  Who are these people to decide whether murderers, or adulterers, or drug addicts, or liars, or politicians who have voted for abortion are on some special list of People-Who-Are-Certainly-Too-Sinful-In-God's-Eyes-To-Receive-Communion?

  Indeed, communion is routinely offered to those facing execution for murder.

  This capricious politicization of communion is simply un-Christian.

  by CA Libertarian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:09:36 PM PDT

•  A Church that withholds succor for politics

  Is a church that should be taxed.

  by boadicea on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:17:13 PM PDT

•  That's why I'm not a "practicing Catholic"

  anymore.  The Catholic Church has a shameful history which continues right up to the present day.  Things will never change until they drop this facade of "infalibility" surrounding the Pope.  Then it will be possible to question Vatican policies without being a heretic.

  by lordcopper on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:21:42 PM PDT

  •  IMHO

    The priest in a heretic.

    by Shhs on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:14:05 PM PDT

•  This is all very interesting, but what about the

  Seems these right wingers are all happy about the death penalty.  

  What is Kansas governor's position on the death penalty?
  According to the Governor's office, Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius "upholds the current Kansas state law regarding the death penalty" however Kansas has not had an execution since 1976.

  How many people are on Death Row in my state?
  There are currently 7 prisoners on Death Row in Kansas. Of the 7 Death Row prisoners, 2 are black and 5 are white.

  Texas on the other hand Texas has executed a total of 357 people since 1976.  Of the 413 Death Row prisoners, 170 are black, 127 are white, 112 are Latino and 4 are Asian. Of the 413 Death Row prisoners, 10 of them are women. In Bush's gubernatorial term, 113 have been put to death, with clemency granted in only one case.

   

  Arizona has executed a total of 22 people since 1976.  McBush didn't get to pull the switch on any of these.

  Seems to me that death is death.  If abortion is murder, so is the death penalty.  If you don't get communion for one, you shouldn't get it for the other.  

  by dangoch on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:26:24 PM PDT

  •  How about

    those who support the unjust war in Iraq?  Is that not murder as well?

    by TracieLynn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:26:35 PM PDT

•  Kossacks! get off your asses!

  Send an email complaining about this to
  Cardinal William Joseph Levada, Prefect of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - who is bound in conscience to reply to all such.

  [e-mail]

  by Lepanto on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:29:16 PM PDT

•  RC church got let off too easy on pedophiles

  That church has been political for the last 30 years.  I remember Bush the Elder doing a death penalty rally at a Roman Catholic church school in 1988 and that was FINE even though the church is supposedly against the death penalty.  In the 80's, the RC Church went wild with homophobia; they were the leaders and these kooks like Hagee et al jumped onto an issue that the Catholic Church used to whack Democrats and "liberals."  The Catholic laity needs a kick in the pants, too.  They want politicians to bow and scrape to the Catholic hierarchy.

  That pedophile scandal was an opportunity to put the Catholic church in its place, put the boot on their neck and never let up.  Its a shame that didn't happen.  

  by Lois on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:35:01 PM PDT

•  Delete his email.

  Not cool.

  by davybaby on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:40:20 PM PDT

•  An idiosyncratic thing?

  In the last election, after some really off-the-wall politics by the Archbishop of St. Louis, the Vatican (yes, Benedict's crew) said that this was inappropriate. In effect, they said that there were many issues upon which one voted, and that a person might vote against capital punishment or war in respect for life. So unless a person was specifically voting FOR abortion, it was a personal decision

  The old guard in the hierarchy still want their political power, and appreciate the blind support of people like Donohue. But it is not a universal thing.

  by MrMichaelMT on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:19:40 PM PDT

  •  I think this is great news

    The Catholic Church should deny Communion to as many people as possible.  I think they need a strategic-plan target of reducing the size of the Church by, say, 75% over the next several years.

    by Rich in PA on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:32:49 PM PDT

  •  A lot of this depends on which Order

    the priest is from. I realize that to non-R-Catholics all Catholics are the same - but there are some very major differences.

    Thankfully I went to a Jesuit school, where there were some pretty radical priests, and I also spent a lot of time with Franciscans who were dedicated to doing work with the poor.  

    by Deoliver47 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:35:03 PM PDT

    •  Most Catholic priests don't belong to orders n/t

      The vast majority are not in any order.

      Love the Jesuits---but about once a century they are threatened with excommunication due to their high level of education. The Franciscans have rattled a few cages in the third world as well, with their dedication to the poor--like Maryknoll.

      by MrMichaelMT on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:34:10 AM PDT

      •  I stand corrected

        it's just that most of the priests/nuns I've known were related to Catholic schools run by specific orders.

        Maryknoll folks - are awesome.

        by Deoliver47 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 09:00:36 AM PDT