D.I.S.R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

Lazydiarying disses readers.

Writing a "breaking news" or other Diary with three pathetic lines and a link without excerpts or analysis or commentary or snark is the Diary version of shouting "First" in a comment thread.

It's pitiful. A txt msg version of Diarying. But, since it's all the rage, who am I to buck the trend?

•  "Ditto"...

  ...crap. Lazycommenting.

  by Nulwee on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:45:26 PM PDT

  •  I beg to differ

    Short, punchy comments almost always get more mojo than longwinded (although meaningful) ones.

    by droogie6655321 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:47:24 PM PDT

    •  True. n/t

      by JoeW on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:56:31 PM PDT

      •  Prove me wrong, people

        Don't rec this man.

        by droogie6655321 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:56:59 PM PDT

        •  Hey!

          by JoeW on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:58:55 PM PDT

          •  hah! rec'd you ALL

            [cue maniacal laughter!]

            by Dem in the heart of Texas on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:01:33 PM PDT

            •  *burp*

              ~scratch~

              by Bule Betawi on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:14:29 PM PDT

              •  O!

                by jeremybloom on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:27:26 PM PDT

                •  While their is a great deal of truth in your

                  contention that shorter, would-be pithy, comments stand a higher probability of receiving the coveted "mojo" handed out by the citizens of this blog, one would like to believe there are other forces at work as well.  It may be possible, for example, for a piece of puffed-up prose taking a long, long, long time to get to any point at all, yet well-worded enough and seemingly on the way to making a point--it may be possible, I repeat, for a such a comment to, in the end and all things considered, receive some share of the mojo pie.  And by some share I mean perhaps less than the snappy one-liners we've all come to adore from the lengthy viewing of our televisions sets, yet more than could be deduced from the tenor of your remark.  There also exists a third category of comment:  the comment which actually makes a complex point, or argues a point with particular thoroughness, or fleshes out a significant point with a lot of detail.  While an impartial observer might perhaps think that this is the best kind of comment in the complete range of all possible kinds of comments, the experience of this Kossack leads him to believe that such is not the case.  Indeed, I believe a careful study would find such comments often ignored.  Here are some possible reasons for this:

                  - Daunted by the wordage volume, people scan down and read only the numbered bulletins.

                  There are not enough blockquotes to break up the monotony and hold the attention.

                  3. Numbering schemes are random and haphazard.

                  G) Lack of any consistency confuses the reader completely.

                  - Composing one's response interferes with reading after the first three words.

                  Ding ding: The comment is so complete and perfect, that offering mere mojo would be almost insulting.

                  by geomoo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:36:45 PM PDT

                  •  Fuck It, I Ain't Readin' All That Shit n/t

                    by karateexplosions on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:15:05 PM PDT

                  •  zzzzzzzz...

                    zzzzz ... ::snort:: ... Wha?

                    It isn't easy being green.

                    by emeraldmaiden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:44:48 PM PDT

                  •  skim, skim, looks good, mist have info

                    will rec!!

                    by sara seattle on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:28:41 PM PDT

                  •  brevity is a lot of shit

                    by patarico adamasso on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:04:03 PM PDT

                  •  TLDR

                    TLDR

                    by pgm 01 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:19:04 PM PDT

                    •  Here's a more fun version.

                      tl;dr or "teal deer."

                      by Neon Vincent on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:56:34 PM PDT

                    •  I don't know why that made me laugh out loud.

                      And thanks for the edumacation.

                      by geomoo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:18:54 PM PDT

                  •  Thanks for finally explaining it to me

                    I've wondered why my painfully thought out and carefully written comments get ignored and my flippant one-liners get mojo.

                    by ibonewits on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:41:01 PM PDT

                    •  My highest mojo comments were one-liners.

                      1. Democrats are environmentalists. We'll recycle. (55 recs)

                      2. Senator McCain, do you wear boxers or briefs?  Depends. (21 recs)

                      Both made Top Comments.

                      As for you, you shouldn't be surprised.  Your one-liners in "Real Magic" were hysterically funny (I especially enjoyed your snarky comment about Anthropologists and magic), so you have had a talent for them for at least 40 years.

                      by Neon Vincent on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:05:50 PM PDT

                  •  yup nt

                    by Lava20 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:27:48 PM PDT

                  •  whap-a-doodle goodness

                    I luvs it!

                    by llbear on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:34:30 PM PDT

                  •  THERE, NOT their, use the corrct homynom pls!

                    by eternallyvigilant on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:10:20 PM PDT

                    •  Good gracious, grammar. Thanks for the input.

                      I noticed my mistake 2 seconds after posting.  And this would be the comment that gets seen by everyone.  Just my luck.  And hear ewe or two remind me of it.

                      You are, after all, eternally vigilant.  It's the price of liberty and good grammar.

                      by geomoo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:24:43 PM PDT

                      •  I was completely shocked after I read

                        such a thought provoking comment. To look back up at the title and see such imperfection. Oh me o my...

                        Cheers, e.v.

                        by eternallyvigilant on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:11:11 PM PDT

          •  .

            by MJ via Chicago on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:59:18 PM PDT

            •  

              by Schtu on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:21:46 PM PDT

              •  Now you took it too far.. n/t

                by audiored on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:00:33 PM PDT

            •  see my reply to schtu

              by elial on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:42:19 PM PDT

            •  heh

              by mataliandy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:54:35 PM PDT

        •  droogie

          Most mojo I ever got for just a comment was in a diary about Al Gore during the World Cup soccer tournament.

          He shoots! He GOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEES!

          Got a jillion 4s off that.

          by Carnacki on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:17:54 PM PDT

          •  just seeing "by Carnacki" is good for

            half a jillion 4s right there.  Actually putting some words in front of it is frosting on the cake.

            by lineatus on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:46:18 PM PDT

            •  lineatus

              That's very kind of you.

              by Carnacki on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:50:25 PM PDT

            •  Yep... Carnacki is a fav...nt

              by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:41:54 PM PDT

    •  And it there's a pootie pic

      triple mojo.

      by ReEnergizer on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:00:43 PM PDT

      •  Hey, a lot of us keep our TU status with

        a few well-placed pootie pix.

        by blue jersey mom on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:02:38 PM PDT

        •  I know but

          it works for the freepers too!

          by TexMex on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:05:08 PM PDT

          •  We giveth....we taketh away...

            it's always been that way!  ;^)

            by SallyCat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:42:17 PM PDT

          •  What? You can keep TU with a few well-placed

            freeper pix?

            by Terra Mystica on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:53:19 PM PDT

            •  Ummm... depends on what those freepers are doing

              in the pix I guess... If you post a Coultergeist, I'll TR you

              ;)

              by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:44:13 PM PDT

        •  I'm a dog man.

          That's probably why I keep losing my TU status.

          That, and the fact that the 24/7 primary nature of the site these days leaves little of substance to be said that hasn't been said already.  I just don't comment like I used to.

          by ReEnergizer on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:06:16 PM PDT

          •  set to the music of.....

            I'm a soul man!!!!!!!
            Ta ta tata...

            by TexMex on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:20:05 PM PDT

            •  That would be "da da da da/da da da da"? nt

              by davidseth on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:56:22 PM PDT

              •  I think really

                that depends on which horn you're playing.

                by democracy inaction on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:32:40 PM PDT

          •  Dogs AND cats...

            

            by Nonie3234 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:01:21 PM PDT

            •  Oh ,

              he has a leg over .

              by indycam on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:44:40 PM PDT

            •  Whoa...

              Isn't that picture one of the signs of the apocalypse?!

              by democracy inaction on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:33:51 PM PDT

          •  Can you say...

            I'm a dog man.

            Can you say Rick Santorum?

            by democracy inaction on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:30:24 PM PDT

            •  Why wasn't he charged with cruelty? What an ass..

              by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:47:34 PM PDT

        •  Oh! So that's how it's done.

          Foolish me, spending all that time looking for quotes in pertinent articles to link to, and all I had to do is to link to my cat pix?

          ...oh, damn, now I can't find them!

          by eztempo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:10:32 PM PDT

        •  still wondering how I keep my TU status.

          I haven't written a diary in forever.

          Hey! Maybe that's why I've kept my TU status! The administrators are trying to reinforce my silence.

          by Hobbitfoot on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:19:58 PM PDT

          •  Is a diary required

            In order to get TU?  I'm still lost vis a vis the rating system.  Yeah, I read the FAQ.  Whatever - that won't deter me from stopping by with a sentence or two.

            I try to write succinct comments that cover just the topic and I consider the words I use carefully. But, I've yet to write a diary mainly because I agree with MB: a diary should be more than a few lines from a news headline or other source. It would take me forever to write a diary that met my expectations so I contribute to the community with reasonable comments.

            It is my observation that those who hit the diary first usually get more attention if their comments are worthwhile.  Once you are embedded down the thread, your mojo dwindles unless of course you've hit it out of the BP with a great piece of prose or wit.

            by lns1122 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:46:24 PM PDT

            •  yep

              by TexDem on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:53:45 PM PDT

        •  And a good thing,

          too. Some of us are easily rattled by iffy polls. A good pootie pic is the equivalent of a long walk or a warm bath.

          by kpardue on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:02:10 PM PDT

      •  No pootie, no mojo!

           /\ /\ 
          ( . . )
          (  ^  )
           | || |
           | ||
        |
            W  W
        
        

        
        Yeah, yeah, I know, but I don't have any jpg's lying around.

        by mjfgates on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:34:57 PM PDT

        •  ( "> birdie mojo!

          We may be a minority, but our mojo is strong.

          by lineatus on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:48:38 PM PDT

      •  I've just got to get in on this....

        Pootie mews her 2 cents...
        

        by Wild Starchild on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:21:50 PM PDT

    •  I put

      about three hours into my diary yesterday.  Fell off the right sidebar before it got any comments besides the tipjar.  

      by tunesmith on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:05:51 PM PDT

      •  Put a link, at least

        The difference between a rat (an unread diary) and a hamster (a read diary) is good PR.

        Here it is: Cheney's Rational Energy Policy

        Note that "energy" and "policy" are two words that are highly unhelpful to getting recommended on dKos!

        by Jerome a Paris on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:15:14 PM PDT

        •  I posted yesterday calling for action

          to flag an appallingly racist YouTube video targetting Obama's family, but it barely got a look.

          (How's that?)

          by AussieJo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:27:29 PM PDT

          •  is this turning into a self pity party?

            ^^^(snark)

            The competition is fierce these day on dkos
            
            
            443 diaries yesterday
            
            
            465 the day before
            
            
            lots of good, thoughtful, original diaries get buried in avalanches of mindless repetition
            
            
            ````
            peace
            
            

            by peace voter on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:45:21 PM PDT

            •  YOu can say that again. nt

              by davidseth on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:58:00 PM PDT

            •  ... but the answer is, as it always has been,

              professional Information Design. All these issues would be handled about 10-times better if only the site were information designed in a way that enabled easier browsing of new diaries as they appear -- vs having them relegated to below the fold.

              That, and the popularity-weighted Recommended Diary algorithm.

              But no matter how many times these issues are raised, they get ignored... and that's the truth.

              MB -- you are one of the few people who could do something about it. And it's way past time this got addressed. Tons of "meta" diaries over the past 2 years with plenty of suggestions for improving these issues.

              With good information design, the # of diaries per day becomes less relevant an issue. The FIRST issue is -- without visibility, there can be no traction. The current display mechanism effectively gives a 2-5 minute window for enough people to even SEE a new diary's subject matter (title), to even give it a prayer in hell's chance to gain traction.

              And as for jerome's comment: I think that's part of the problem. Just because you write very excellent diaries and have a "name brand" around here doesn't mean your diaries should always ramp up to the Recommended Diaries list.

              You would be disingenuous if you didn't admit that more times than not, your fan base recognizes your name alone, and propels your diary onto the list irrespective of the quality of your writing or insight for that particular day. Wouldn't you agree?

              All such recommendations about how the help game the system to promote one;s diaries are simply operating in the wrong direction. Classic tail wags dog scenario.

              by rhfactor on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:07:21 PM PDT

              •  tag. you're it.

                Get to work on it.  heh.

                by bubbanomics on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:14:22 PM PDT

                •  not the way the shop works around here

                  or I long ago would have done it.

                  by rhfactor on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:16:40 PM PDT

                •  I blame the number of new Kossacks

                  in the past couple of years. More people=more comments, and more diaries. I tend to look at the first 50, a couple of times a day, and select those that I feel are worth reading, . I do avoid "media" types like Olberman. He has his own platform, and should stay off the site, IMO. I also get a daily email, so I can check out nonpolitical diaries.

                  by mcmom on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:11:33 PM PDT

                  •  disagree (or) can 1,084 kogs be that wrong?

                    I love the fact that Keith Olbermann stops by from time to time.  He really is part of our community.  And I'm particularly impressed by the way that he takes the time to read and respond to comments.

                    "[Keith Olbermann] has his own platform, and should stay off the site"

                    — mcmom

                    btw, as I write this comment 1,084 dkosers have recommended Keith's new diary.

                    (I also like hearing from and having an opportunity to have conversations with Greg Mitchell and David Sirota.)

                    
                    
                    ````
                    peace
                    
                    

                    by peace voter on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:38:21 PM PDT

                    •  Yes... KO, Mitchell, Sirota et al.

                      are our (bloggers) backstage pass to the big show which is the trad media. I appreciate 'personalities' joining us, even if it is to push their names. It's a two way street though. They get feedback from us, and cover issues which are important to us, thus taking our POV mainstream. KO and friends are the wedge keeping the media door open for us.

                      by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:02:09 AM PDT

                      •  I agree to that extent, Clive.

                        by mcmom on Sat May 03, 2008 at 09:33:47 AM PDT

                    •  I rest my case. :-)

                      by mcmom on Sat May 03, 2008 at 09:33:08 AM PDT

              •  Sorry, but I disagree

                Some diarists always write well on a topic of interest.  nyceve, teacherken, kidoakland, grannydoc, dallasdoc (oh, those docs!) and MB, to name a few.

                I rarely look at the new diaries because it's a pain.  And I don't sit on this website all day.  So, I generally don't read diaries that haven't made the recommended list.  Which, I assume is your primary point.

                by Heart of the Rockies on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:29:43 PM PDT

                •  oh, don't misunderstand me. I have tremendous

                  respect for the idea that most of the Recommended Diary writers are "regulars" because of the quality AND CONSISTENCY of their writing.

                  That isn't the point.

                  The point is that given a limited number of coveted "Billboard spots" on a poorly designed interface, more eyeballs are going to more readily scan the newly posted works by name-brand posters (for good reason: brand reputation!) then take more chances on a newly posted diary by a non-well-known-brand.

                  That should be easily agreed to.

                  The issue is NOT that "hey why not give some other people a turn at the billboard spots"... that's missing the point.

                  The point is to "make the pie higher" and use smart technology to bring MORE diaries to the attention of regular readers, by providing further metrics, and better information design, that could help push up new diaries that might get a better chance at gaining traction... if only they were seen in time before bumped off the page (or so far down it's just not likely most people will look that far down).

                  None of this is rocket science.

                  And for 2, 3, 4, 5 years suggestion after suggestion is made -- and suggestion after suggestion totally ignored.

                  So, in the end, people get what they want. And the majority of people are happy with what they get now.

                  So good! Carry on! :)

                  by rhfactor on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:25:03 PM PDT

                  •  Perhaps

                    there could be two (or more) categories.  Like professionals and amateurs, based on number of recommended diaries over a period of time.  But I imagine you've thought about this a lot more than I have.  Please stick with it.

                    by Heart of the Rockies on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:38:34 PM PDT

              •  I tried to get at some of those questions

                empirically with an analysis last summer.  Diaried here.

                Short answer: quality attibutes (length, quality of sources, spelling errors, etc.) held constant, reputation is a huge factor in making the rec list.  On the other hand, some diarists do clearly produce high-quality diaries more consistently.

                by cardinal on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:41:10 PM PDT

                •  cardinal, i remember that diary

                  sorry took so long for me to respond to your post.

                  If you have a moment, could you drop me an email please? My address is in my profile. Thank you. And very good analysis.

                  by rhfactor on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:35:27 PM PDT

              •  If people cared enough they would learn

                to use tags correctly.

                Some of my thoughts from the other day.

                by SarahLee on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:44:54 PM PDT

                •  But using tags well is only PART 1 -- With the

                  scant and poorly-considered information design, the site doesn't make it EASY and NATURAL to set some preferences to say: Show me [Stories][Diaries] posted [today][yesterday][past 7 days] that contain tags [______v], [______v], [______v] that have at least [___] "Recommends" and/or [__] Comments.

                  That would be the bare minimum, and it would be prominently displayed above the fold, where people could see this "BROWSE DIARIES" tool, and tweek it even further by things like authors, Trusted Users Only, Users who've had a diary rescued by Rescue Rangers in the past 6 months, etc.

                  This is child's play to do... but hasn't been thought of nor attempted.

                  And no, the search engine or tag search doesn't cut it.

                  It's not an obscure side-dish on page 10 of the menu; it's an entree.

                  by rhfactor on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:16:37 PM PDT

                  •  I just bookmark the tags for issues I care about

                    in a folder on my browser tool bar.  I hit the folder and the searches on those tags all open up in individual tabs - very easy to see how many diaries are posted since I last checked.  

                    I wouldn't limit by comments or recs because many very good diaries slip by the front page with little attention because of other noise.

                    Others keep their fav tags linked in their blogrolls so they can check from different computers.

                    by SarahLee on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:01:45 PM PDT

                    •  and those are all good accomodations

                      and both approaches work well.

                      I still remain baffled by how the entire team of really dedicated tag librarians got dissed by The Proclamation. It'd been one thing if there had been no volunteer base of pros & passionate people to manage the tasks... but how odd to have had a fully engaged volunteer base, thoroughly organized, with a collaborative work methodology defined, with online forums to help manage the work -- only to have it all thrown out because hissy fits emerged in response to volunteers trying to inculcate some knowledge-base discipline for the collective sake of easier navigation and exploration through the enormous database of discussions and topics.

                      But at least you know that a good number of people appreciated all the work from you, Halcyon, and the whole crew.

                      by rhfactor on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:33:22 PM PDT

                      •  Thank you so much

                        It amazed me that such a small group of complainers could sabotage the common good (or would want to - i.e. aren't Democrats the ones who are supposed to support the whole, as in infrastructure, as opposed to always wanting to privatize everything?).

                        by SarahLee on Sat May 03, 2008 at 09:07:53 AM PDT

              •  I disagree

                You would be disingenuous if you didn't admit that more times than not, your fan base recognizes your name alone, and propels your diary onto the list irrespective of the quality of your writing or insight for that particular day. Wouldn't you agree?

                I disagree because a particular writer wouldn't have a fan base in the first place if their writing was sub par or uninteresting.  Also, I can't speak for anyone else but I don't recommend any diary unless I've read it and like it, irrespective of who it is by and whether or not I recognize the name as someone I particularly like.

                by democracy inaction on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:44:17 PM PDT

                •  Agreed.

                  What I didn't make clear was this:

                  Yes, of course, you are absolutely right that brand names become brand names because of the consistency of their writing quality and their insights on their various areas of expertise.

                  I was trying to say two things:

                  (1) There are times when even A-list writers don't have much to say -- but they are expressive people and make even mundane or repetitive topics enjoyable due to their personality of expression. And sometimes -- i didn't say often -- but sometimes these writers' diaries get instantly recommended before the subject matter is read.

                  I understand: YOU don't operate that way, and that's good. But readers fess up about this stuff all the time, saying they Recommend just from a title or into paragraph alone.

                  (2) I also don't think there is anything wrong with doing so, for a lot of the same reasons cited for why A-list writers consistently have their diaries in the Top Ten. I just think the software -- and information design -- and allocation of real estate -- is not that well thought out, unnecessarily creating the narrow rapid-funnel of above the fold diaries, subjugating unknowns to the nether regions way below the fold where the odds of being seen by enough people in the right timing-window to create traction are very low.

                  And, once again, given the finite # of slots, when they are filled, a new diary which maybe breaks new subject matter ground but doesn't have a well-marketed Title/hook gets shut out of contention.

                  There's just no reason to even be in this either-or position. Some of the ideas readers have posted over the years have been very interesting. That fact that not one of them has ever been factored into the site development is at minimum, silly. :)

                  Happy reading!