Eight years later and the scar remains.

Bush V. Gore.

I just watched the brilliant movie Recount on HBO and boy did all my bad feelings of the year 2000 come rushing back, I thought I had gotten over that election but after watching the movie I have this bad taste in my mouth that I couldn't believe we didn't fight harder to win that election.

Yes the dreadful supreme court lead by the dumb asses Scalia and Thomas stole the election, but I couldn't help but think if only Al Gore and his team hadn't from the start giving the high ground to Bush for him to claim he had won the election maybe things could have been different. Al Gore should have made it clear from the beginning that he thought he was the winner and nothing in the world was ever going to change that, maybe just maybe the perception of things wouldn't have been what they were.

But as they always say the past is the past and you've gotta move on.

P.S: If Anybody watches the movie you'll notice what a scum bag Joe Lieberman had always been. The turncoat Lieberman was instrumental in throwing the election to Bush. God how Al Gore ever chose this man to be his running mate is beyond me.

Hopefully this fall with Barack Obama will can chart a new course for this country. OBAMA/KAINE 08!

•  Diary number 5 on recount. n/t

  by MTmofo on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:25:08 PM PDT

  •  Must have been good! n/t

    by pakaal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:35:21 PM PDT

  •  Why? there's another VP diary every 30 minutes!

    And 15 RFK diaries an hour
    And so on... RIGHT MTmofo?

    Again besides just being an ass or bored
    why dish this guy?

    by AustinSF on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:40:19 PM PDT

    •  Forgot

      And 50 and hour I hate Hill Bill HillBill Chelsea or their dog

      by AustinSF on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:43:36 PM PDT

    •  Just doing my part for community moderation

      per the FAQ.

      Now go have a 4:20 kinda night.
       |
       |
      \|/

      by MTmofo on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:52:48 PM PDT

      •  Ah - well then you know how many break the rules

        Happy to point them out 2 U here...

        And I shall soon partake of the 4:20 and thanks for trying to moderate.

        My bad..or.... well.. something like that...

        by AustinSF on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:04:52 PM PDT

      •  Many of us actually appreciate

        it - remembering the good ol days when the diary list was full of a variety of subject matter.

        by SarahLee on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:08:51 AM PDT

•  I've just logged on Voodoo

  and I'll give you a rec for the Joe Lieberman slant that you offer.  Yes...I wholeheartedly agree that he's been fucking the party over for more than just the past two years!

  by KellyB on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:28:50 PM PDT

  •  How did Lieberman screw us in 2000?

    I don't remember hearing about his part in the whole deal, and didn't watch the movie....

    by pakaal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:34:50 PM PDT

    •  Liberman screwed us by the saying the

      Absentee ballots that weren't post mark be counted.

      by Voodoo king on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:39:55 PM PDT

    •  One thing I recall...

      is his going on television and saying all the soldiers' absentee ballots should be counted regardless of whether they were received by the deadline or not (and word on NPR was that they were actually mailing them in AFTER the election) - and implying that the Gore team was trying to disenfranchise the soldiers.

      by Kentucky DeanDemocrat on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:41:31 PM PDT

    •  Lieberman betrayed the Dems...

      Bush was confronted with absentee ballots sent from Americans living in Israel; calculating that most of these ballots would favor Gore, Bush took the position that those ballots should not be counted, because they were missing technical requirements such as witness signatures and/or postmarks; he argued that no one could tell whether these ballots had been sent before or after the voting deadline.

      At some later date, it was discovered that absentee ballots sent from servicemen abroad also lacked these same technical requirements.  Bush about-faced, and took the position that we should honor our brave soldiers (because, of course, he calculated that these would favor him).

      Lieberman was fully briefed on Bush's perfidy about the absentee ballots, including his "exclude the ones from Israel but include he ones from soldiers" gambit.  Lieberman promptly went on national news and -- without giving any prior warning to his own campaign or party -- publically agreed with Bush that the soldiers' ballots should be counted -- but utterly failed to even mention the ballots from Americans in Israel. Even then, Lieberman acted more like Bush's betch than Gore's VP.

      by 4thepeople on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:28:14 PM PDT

•  I disagree with this

  Al Gore should have made it clear from the beginning that he thought he was the winner and nothing in the world was ever going to change that, maybe just maybe the perception of things wouldn't have been what they were.

  Had Gore defied the Supreme Court, he'd have been abandoned by all the Democrats and branded an outlaw. He would have precipitated a constitutional crisis and possibly civil war.

  Had Gore fired the first shot, Bush's approval ratings would have soared. He would have been seen as the honorable, aggrieved party, just trying to play by the rules, and Gore would have been seen as a dictator trying to seize power by disobeying the Supreme Court. Bush would have still become president, and he would have taken advantage of the massive, nationwide civil unrest caused by Gore's defiance to impose martial law and institute laws even more draconian than the Patriot Act.

  As he so often has, Gore made the right choice in 2000.

  by limpidglass on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:39:30 PM PDT

  •  I'm not saying Gore should have defied

    The supreme court. I'm saying on election night after Gore called Bush back to take back his concession he should have gone out in front of the cameras and say he thought he had won, which he did. Maybe the perception of him trying to steal the election would have been different.

    by Voodoo king on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:43:28 PM PDT

    •  Gore is rational.

      He is not the kind that would've declared on election night that he though he won because the numbers weren't showing him in a lead (he was still a few hundred votes short by AM).

      by NeuvoLiberal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:12:09 PM PDT

      •  IIRC

        On election night, he didn't just not declare himself the winner, he conceded.

        by Free Spirit on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:12:01 PM PDT

    •  We weren't there, but...

      I'm with you, voodoo. Between Warren Christopher caring more about his natty suits and gentlemanly airs than whether you might have to fight for an election, and Gore himself worried about looking bad by being too aggressive, they let the Republicans roll right over them.  Honestly, the Repubs were two steps ahead the whole time, because they were willing to be fierce advocates for Bush, while the Dems were polishing their nails and telling each other at every turn, "it can't be done, it can't be done, it can't be done."  Sheesh. If OJ had used Gore's lawyers, he'd have been electrocuted by now. Except for David Boies, the lawyers really just didn't know what hit them.

      by 4thepeople on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:37:04 PM PDT

  •  You're so right.

    In addition, Gore didn't claim he was the winner, because he didn't know whether he was or not.  He was honest.  He only asked for recounts under Florida law (which specified NOT by the entire state but by specified counties).  Some counties had tons of "undervotes."  The machines hadn't registered the votes of these people.  The idea was to COUNT THEM and see what they actually said.

    The Bushes claimed to have won when they had no idea.  They didn't want the votes counted, because the current count had them on top - barely.  The Bushes lied - because they didn't know the outcome anymore than Gore did.  Claiming you've won an election when so many, many thousands of votes have gone through the machines without registering is a blatant lie.  It is not "moral high ground."

    I have never been so stunned in my life.  Honestly. Completely stunned.  When they started their battle to prevent the votes from being counted, I had no clue they could possibly prevail.  Florida law called for a recount.  Simple equity, never before questioned in this country, called for a recount.

    It blows my mind even to think about this to the present day.

    by Kentucky DeanDemocrat on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:47:53 PM PDT

    •  It's funny what you remember...

      ...but I recall getting on a freeway in January 2001, circling on the on-ramp, listening to an NPR report about Bush's transition team working with the Clinton administration. Like a lot of us, I was dazed, mired in a tremendous feeling of dread. Of course I had no idea what was in store for the nation, but I knew that a permanent and historical error had been made.

      Had the same feeling when I saw the first images from the Iraq War in March 2003.

      by AmericanFactotum on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:00:21 PM PDT

      •  Yeah...

        Like I remember Al Gore conceding the election that night.

        by Free Spirit on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:14:19 PM PDT

        •  what's you point here, FS?

          Gore conceded when the numbers (which they only later learned were cooked up) showed he was behind Bush by 40K votes which is a large enough margin to concede upon since all the networks (except the AP, which was the basis of Whooley's call to retract the concession which Gore eventually did do) called it as well.

          Even after the negative vote cook-up was reversed, he was still behind by 1784 votes. So, given the sequence of events, Gore did the right things that night. Do you disagree with that? If so, why and how?

          by NeuvoLiberal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:40:38 PM PDT

          •  No point.

            Just touching base with reality.

            But yes, I disagree with Gore conceding that night, just like I disagree with Kerry conceding. I do not disagree with Gore's later concession.

            To me, this says it all:

            he was behind Bush by 40K votes which is a large enough margin to concede upon

            It seems like Democratic presidential candidates are eager to concede, not win. That seems to be their mindset on election night...Can I concede yet?

            If I admire anything about Hillary Clinton, it is that she is clearly not looking to concede.

            by Free Spirit on Mon May 26, 2008 at 06:45:45 AM PDT

            •  well,

              Gore appears to be the victim of everyone's gift of hindsight.

              by NeuvoLiberal on Mon May 26, 2008 at 08:08:12 AM PDT

              •  Can't speak for anyone else, but...

                I for one have not changed my mind about anything to do with the 2000 election since the events took place. I have formed additional opinions, based on additional information, but my opinions of Gore's early and later concessions remain the same.

                by Free Spirit on Mon May 26, 2008 at 10:13:21 AM PDT

  •  and, 79% of American wanted Gore to concede

    should the SCOTUS verdict have gone against him:

    CNN , 10/12/2000
    As of today, do you think Al Gore should concede the election, or should he not concede?

    Yes       53%
    No        43
    Sampling error: +/-4%  pts

    If the U.S. Supreme Court rules against Al Gore, should he concede the election, or should he not concede?

    Yes        79%
    No         16
    Sampling error: +/-4%  pts

    In such a state of affairs, Gore defying supreme court's verdict and pushing the fight any further would've been received extremely negatively by the public. And he would've been cast off as an unhinged sore loser or something like that and we would've lost his voice on important fronts since.

    by NeuvoLiberal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:10:30 PM PDT

  •  Huh?

    Whatever does this have to do with defying the Supreme Court? Their ruling was the end, not the beginning.

    by Free Spirit on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:08:46 PM PDT

•  Al Gore

  is a decent man..there is no doubt he never imagined the horror that Bush turned out to be..and there was no crystal ball showing just how ruthless the Bush Mafia would be tactically.

  The turning point was the Bolton scrimmage in Florida when the Republican thugs came on the scene and there was a hint of potential violence. They used the fear tactic well.

  by ohcanada on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:30:29 PM PDT

•  1st diary with the most comments here

  http://www.dailykos.com/...

  some links to HBO interviews of actors with the people they portrayed posted there.

  by SarahLee on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:06:59 AM PDT

•  Rational gets you nowhere. Visceral is needed.

  And what will Obama do when the GOP steals 2008, too?

  http://www.dailykos.com/...

  by LNK on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:21:20 AM PDT