HBO's Recount post-talk (Spoilers!)

FOR ANYONE WHO HASN'T SEEN THE MOVIE YET, CLOSE THIS DIARY NOW!

I'll leave this as an open thread for anyone who got to see it tonight. I live in Vegas, but I have an east coast HBO feed, so I got to see the premiere tonight, and it was exciting and tense as hell, and I learned a great deal about what happened, and I finally learned what the stupid under and overvote chads meant. If this wasn't 2008 and I wasn't so confident about Obama's chances, it'd be much harder to watch for me, and I couldn't help but think about all that's happened since 2000, especially 9/11 and the War.

The one thing that really burnt me hard was...

WHY THE HELL DID JOE LIEBERMAN STAB US IN THE BACK EVEN BACK THEN???

•  What movie?

  by Rex Manning on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:07:03 PM PDT

  •  Recount. On HBO

    About the 2000 presidential election with Kevin Spacey

    by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:10:13 PM PDT

    •  Hadn't heard of it.

      Any good?

      by Rex Manning on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:11:27 PM PDT

      •  Required

        by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:12:57 PM PDT

        •  Excellent.

          I'll see if I can find a torrent for it.

          by Rex Manning on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:13:53 PM PDT

          •  Excellent? Horrible. Brings it back. Painful

            It would be excellent fiction except who would believe it, especially that Supreme Court part. No one would believe they'd make that decision, the fiction went too far.

            Except it was real and a prelude to even more unbelievable fiction ahead.

            I hope some watching were deeply shamed but probably not.

            by joynow on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:23:42 PM PDT

            •  And it wound up creating a number

              of constitutional criseses with the Bush administration.  

              I know my heart was racing and blood pressure up watching the damned thing.  I certainly hoped that we have learned over these past two elections that we really do have to fight for democracy and that Democrats better be damned prepared for that fight.

              And god damn Joe Lieberman.  

              8 fucking years of damage to our economy, our democracy, our infrastructure, our environment.  

              Angry all over again.

              by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:30:49 PM PDT

          •  Recount matters for 2 reasons

            The first was cited by the diarist above.  JoeMentum throwing in the towel on illegally cast military ballots cost us dearly.  While we're stuck w/ him in the Dem Caucus for 7 more months, he MUST be thrown out on his ear in 1/09.

            The second reason comes from this article in today's Miami Herald projecting the upcoming campaign in FL:

            ''In 04, they were able to bring every breathing Republican to the polls. They can't do that this year,'' Schale said, noting Democrats have outgained Republicans in new voter registrations, including, for the first time, the Hispanic demographic. Democrats also expect the 600,000 registered blacks who didn't vote in the 2004 elections will be far more energized to come to the polls this year.

            While Cruella's pre-election voter purge didn't get a lot of play in the movie, it was expressly addressed.  One of the main reasons why FL was so close in '00 was b/c of a high black turnout resulting from Jebby's gutting of affirmative action in '99.  Cruella's purge helped reduce AA turnout.

            That turnout declined on its own in '04.  We all know that it will spike to unprecedented levels this year.  We can assume, accordingly, that the GOP will do whatever it can to reduce AA turnout.

            We can't alter the election theft of 2000, but the party can do something about JoeMentum, and we can resist attempts to reduce black turnout.

            by RFK Lives on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:25:39 PM PDT

            •  Yep. It's all Joe Lieberman's fault and now

              we know why.  He wasn't a real Democrat anyway.  He was scum-sucking, wimpy, whiny, lying piece of crap.

              by ObamaManiac2008 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:04:21 PM PDT

              •  Silver lining - we were spared his being Veep

                by fleisch on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:27:20 AM PDT

                •  And President, for that matter. :)

                  by ObamaManiac2008 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:05:03 AM PDT

            •  No, the party won't. The stupid voters that

              voted him in the last time as a independent won't either.

              joe, spelled shithead, is going to haunt us forever.

              Let's face it, the only thing dumber than joe is the Democratic leadership and the morons that vote for joe and our leadership.

              by 0hio on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:09:08 PM PDT

      •  Excellent n/t

        by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:23:56 PM PDT

•  Right?!! I thought I remembered everything...

  but I did not remember that...makes me wonder...

  by la urracca on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:07:38 PM PDT

•  Great movie

  well done. Katherine Harris is a putz. The lady that played her role deserves an Emmy.

  by fcvaguy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:08:07 PM PDT

  •  That was Laura Dern

    Seriously, anyone who can pull of the fact is a winner...

    "Does her makeup count as a hurricane?"

    by rocksteady758 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:08:49 PM PDT

    •  Correction...face*

      by rocksteady758 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:10:13 PM PDT

    •  I loved how she kept misspeaking

      "The judge ruling"

      That woman was way in over her head

      by foxsucks81 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:10:47 PM PDT

  •  Laura Dern was pitch perfect

    as crazy ass Katherine Harris.

    by ZinZen on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:14:55 PM PDT

    •  Oh yes...

      ...and she potrayed Harris correctly as a clueless foot solider in over her head instead of a diabolical election-stealing mastermind. Anyone who watched her freakshow/train-wreck of a Senate campaign known Katherine Harris is no mastermind at anything.

      by gf120581 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:20:09 PM PDT

      •  It begs the question

        How, exactly, did she ascend so high?

        I mean FReepers, for example, seem to find her...sexy.

        (of course their dicks get hard for anything that's anti-Democrat)

        by SFOrange on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:47:36 PM PDT

•  Oh my goodness

  that movie was fucking awesome. The only thing that wasn't fucking awesome was the score, written by someone I guess assumed would get a free pass for ripping off The Conversation. Uh, no. Leave the musical ripping off to pros like John Williams.

  by Frances Nicole on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:10:41 PM PDT

  •  Well...

    the ending wasn't too awesome.

    Although since it was a true story, I guess that there was little that could be done about it!

    by EF in NY on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:12:39 PM PDT

    •  Well

      the ending wasn't going to be awesome, so I took it for what it was.

      Another reason why that score irked me, because it pushed way too hard for a certain emotion. When they read the ruling for the statewide recount, the score pulled that classic "THIS IS SUCH AN AMAZINGLY HOPEFUL MOMENT THINGS ARE GOING TO TURN AROUND!!" when everybody watching the film knew what was going to happen. There ain't nothin' wrong with irony, y'know; but the composer assumed that the people watching had no idea what was going to happen next.

      Anyway ignore me, I'm a huge film score geek.

      by Frances Nicole on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:16:00 PM PDT

      •  Just expressing the emotion at the time, people

        watching the event and not the movie, otherwise they'd have to have played a dirge the whole time

        by joynow on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:27:18 PM PDT

        •  Boy aint that the truth!

          otherwise they'd have to have played a dirge the whole time

          by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:35:20 PM PDT

      •  heh

        I didn't read as much into the score as you, I just know that I didn't like it. It bothered me through the entire film, however the scene where Spacey takes that final call from Gore, essentially shutting down the fight, the music finally officially got on my nerves and distracted me.
        The music in a film should never distract the viewer.

        by mytribe on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:00:15 PM PDT

•  I was in Europe

  I went to Europe in the middle of November, 2000, so much of this I missed.  I did try to catch CNN International.

  I left with an big As I See It column in the KC Star arguing that all votes needed to be counted.  I was clearly right.

  It is clear from the movie that the Democrats were not playing the same game the Republicans were.

  And, we got the worst President of the last hundred years.

  Damn! damn! damn!

  by MoDem on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:10:45 PM PDT

  •  A lesson Obama has learned

    That there is a 3rd way of doing this, and that's putting up a fight without corruption

    by rocksteady758 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:12:34 PM PDT

    •  No question

      One of the talking heads has already noticed that Obama is responding to McCain differently than he has to Clinton.  Well, duh?

      Ohio is not going to be the problem it was in 2004, and I don't think we have the voter disenfranchisement in Florida this time out.

      Watching this movie hurt.

      by MoDem on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:21:08 PM PDT

      •  We've learned from '00 on '04

        We know what they'll be trying, no matter how hopeless they look. We know they'll try to suppress voters. We know they'll try the worst kinds of smears around.

        We're ready for them. And it's shown.

        by rocksteady758 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:23:35 PM PDT

        •  For the record

          They also stole 04 in Ohio, through suppression of the black vote in Cleveland.

          by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:25:58 PM PDT

          •  Right, and I made a typo

            I meant to say we've learned from BOTH 2000 and 2004

            by rocksteady758 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:28:07 PM PDT

•  Yeah, really.

  I can't believe Holy Joe sold us out back in 2000 too.

  Good movie though.  Wish the ending were different.

  by Namtrix on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:10:53 PM PDT

  •  Committee on the Present Danger

    http://www.committeeonthepresentdang...

    Check out the scum on that page.  

    by Design the Future on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:13:37 PM PDT

•  Street fights

  They stole the 2000 election because they saw it as a street fight.

  I think that there is a wing of the Democratic party since then that doesn't trust anything that is not treated as a street fight. We don't want to be fooled again.

  by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:11:41 PM PDT

  •  Can't disagree w/ you there, NY Writer

    by jaywillie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:25:51 PM PDT

    •  Now that I relived it again through this film

      and I knew some people in Cleveland in 04, and the GOP stole that one too through suppression of the black vote, it explains to me the mentality of Hillary supporters. I know it does me. Just think how close she was to this whole story. She was there. She watched it happen and 8 years of Democratic rule come to an end, wrongly.

      You all know I'm a HRC supporter and this diary is not the place for us to get into it, but it does explain (I'm not saying 'justify') the 'take no prisoners,' street fight mentality that grips half of the party.

      George Bush stole two elections, and people have died because of this, and not just in Iraq.

      by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:30:45 PM PDT

      •  But it's not just Hillary supporters

        I support Obama and I can attest that all of us are just as determined and resolved and will show the Republicans no mercy.

        I think what is more true is that many, many Democrats feel this way.  It's not just Clinton supporters or Obama supporters.

        All of us were affected by what happened in FL in 2000.  Our entire country has been affected by that moment and we've all lived through the tragic results.  It's safe to say that, eight years later, there are many, many more Democrats just as determined to give the Republicans no quarter.

        by jaywillie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:47:21 PM PDT

        •  Right., I'd love to see them dare try this shit

          again, though I shouldn't tempt fate....

          by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:49:57 PM PDT

  •  EXACTLY!!! Jim Baker handled the whole thing

    like a Mafia take over....

    Our side wanted to be diplomatic in the face of a bunch of dirty thugs.

    by MasterHurrikane on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:05:48 PM PDT

    •  This, sadly, is Chris's fault.

      by ObamaManiac2008 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:05:39 PM PDT

•  Recc this diary so it gets to the top, so

  everyone sees this movie

  by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:15:22 PM PDT

•  I got no HBO so I'll never see it. :(

  by Hope08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:16:01 PM PDT

  •  In the age of digital media

    You'll have a much better chance of seeing it soon than back in the 90's :)

    by rocksteady758 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:16:57 PM PDT

  •  It'll be on DVD at some point

    by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:18:07 PM PDT

•  just finished watching

  since I live in Fla and did back then too, now that I've seen this it brings back all of the anger I had and I guess never purged from my system cuz after I finished watching I think I'm more pissed now than I was then. Lieberman, the schmuck, effectively killed the recount by his comments on MTP. Who ever watches this cannot possibly believe any other outcome except that this election and it's outcome was "the steal of the century". Amazing, frigging amazing.

  by nabwilson on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:19:12 PM PDT

  •  He's running for 2004...

    That sounded so true...thank god we didn't let him get that far in that primary.

    Now if only we can get a big enough majority so we can finally stop worrying about him.

    by rocksteady758 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:21:46 PM PDT

  •  Easy to be more upset now...

    As mad as we were back in 2000, we had no idea what travesties awaited our country at the hands of the GWB administration.

    Even so, after watching this, it still boggles my mind that the recount wasn't allowed to continue.  I never understood why any thinking person wouldn't want to know the true outcome.

    A funny moment - when Gore called Bush back to withdraw his concession, I had forgotten that Bushie said:  "My little brother assured me I won the state of Florida."  Oy.

    by Nancy in LA on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:02:37 PM PDT

  •  HBO is asking folks to vote now

    http://www.hbo.com/...

    by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:49:55 PM PDT

•  as someone who practices election law

  They did a very good job with this movie.  Well-cast, and it told the story as clearly as you can.  Depressing ending (surprise!), but it depicts the Brooks Brothers riot, the lawyering, all of it well.

  by Adam B on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:19:58 PM PDT

•  I think there's enough evidence now...

  to assume that Joe Lieberman has always been a bit of a self-serving prick.

  by jaywillie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:23:25 PM PDT

•  Made me want to cry

  and renewed my intense dislike for wishy washy Democrats and visceral dislike of Joe Lieberman - that that that one needed much push.

  As with most of HBO's films - it was excellent and I was pretty tense throughout despite knowing what the outcome would be.

  by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:23:33 PM PDT

  •  Anybody who liked the movie

    might want to go over to the Internet Movie Database and give it a rating.

    by rmx2630 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:38:26 PM PDT

•  i learned a bit more about the hanging chad

  issue...how the card holders weren't cleaned thus making the "dimpled" chad

  if you have an hour -- you can watch The Trouble with Touch Screens that Dan Rather did Aug 1, 2007.  a segment showed:

  ...MAKING [of] PAPER BALLOTS THAT LED TO THE FLORIDA FIASCO OF 2000 TELL THEIR STORY FOR THE FIRST TIME

  transcript here
  to watch  select Aug 14, 2007

  by sc kitty on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:23:42 PM PDT

•  The One Thing I Wondered About.....

  As to whether it was exaggerated, was the call to Vice President Gore to tell him not to concede on election night.

  The movie has a mad scramble of Gore aides unable to get anyone in the Gore motorcade on the phone, and one aide going above & beyond, falling down steps, running into the Secret Service, and barely catching Gore seconds before he goes on stage.

  Did that really happen? I could have swore that I read Michael Whouley actually got ahold of Gore in the limo on the way to the speech.

  by Rimjob on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:27:17 PM PDT

  •  Dramatic license I think...

    I've always heard tht Gore got the call in the limo as well.

    by dhshoops on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:33:29 PM PDT

  •  That aide has a name

    It's David Morehouse. The only reason why I care enough to mention this is he is the President of my favorite NHL hockey team, the Pittsburgh Penguins. And he has been doing a damn good job of running the team. But the movie didn't portray his as well since Morehouse is not short and dosen't look like a guy straight out of high school.

    Wishy-washy is a good term to describe the Dems who wanted to throw in the towel from the start (i.e Lieberman, Bill Daley and Warren Christopher).

    by Bradley Hussein Minoski on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:46:29 PM PDT

•  it put the pieces of the sordid puzzle together

  in a very nice and intelligible way...

  showed how Florida was run Mafia style.

  Katherine Harris was a silly puppet according to the writers.. i always viewed her as a conniving devil personally LOL.

  by MasterHurrikane on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:27:18 PM PDT

•  Also: Wow, was Holy Joe Lieberman that much of a

  numskull then as he is now?  LOL

  by MasterHurrikane on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:28:34 PM PDT

  •  it was the beginning of his numskull career

    by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:32:33 PM PDT

  •  Apparently,

    and unfortunately, obviously....

    by KellyB on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:33:05 PM PDT

•  Break it down...

  For those who don't have TV or cable, could someone take the time to break down the Lieberman et-tu-brute moment?

  Angling for 2004?  What did he do, that SOB?

  by Quilombo on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:32:32 PM PDT

  •  it was an appearence on Meet the press

    where he supported counting outstanding military votes from abroad even though they came in late.

    by MasterHurrikane on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:36:44 PM PDT

  •  What happened

    They were scrambling to recount the votes. The Bush campaign had challenged absentee ballots that weren't postmarked.

    Then the gore campaign challenged military ballots, because so many weren't postmarked. The judge ruled military ballots wouldn't be postmarked but they must at least be signed and dated. The fear was that thousands of military ballots arrived after the deadline.

    Joe Liebermann, on Meet the Press, said he sympathized with the soldiers and felt those military votes should all count (unlike likely Gore/Liebermann absentee ballots that were disqualified)

    by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:38:42 PM PDT

•  Had Hillary run in 2000, she'd have won.

  Or, anyway, she'd have not stopped contesting and grandstanding until '04.  The real question is whether Obama would have won.  I think he's got fight in him, just not sleeze.  Let's hope fight's enough.

  by maconblue on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:33:42 PM PDT

•  This Movie should unite Obama and Hillary Support

  country wide... we CANNOT EVER let an election get stolen like that again!!!

  by MasterHurrikane on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:35:23 PM PDT

•  Oh, this movie was definitely painful

  to relive, but absolutely necessary to see.  It has been a long time and our long national nightmare is almost over - hopefully to never, ever happen again!

  by CTLiberal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:36:54 PM PDT

•  Another Documentary this morning...

  on HBO was "Hacking Democracy".  I only caught the last part of it but it showed that there is a possibility of tricking the electronic machines.  It was sad

  by rod1mus pr1mus on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:38:37 PM PDT

  •  I dvr'd it

    then when I started watching it, realized I've seen it already. Its the one about Bev Harris and blackboxvoting.org

    I don't remember exactly why she is so controversial though. But I'm sure someone will read this and remind me :)

    by mytribe on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:08:28 PM PDT

    •  Bev Harris

      Not sure, but I think it has something to do with misappropriating funds for her cause-think I saw this in a comment. I don't know why Cindy Sheehan is unpopular here-do you?

      by roberta g on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:32:13 PM PDT

      •  yeah..

        that jogs my memory a bit.

        and no, not sure why Cindy is unpopular.

        by mytribe on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:12:35 PM PDT

  •  This was NOT a documentary

    This comment demonstrates perfectly the problem with this film and those like it. Viewers are suck in to believing that what they see is what happened. This film and its marketing are particularly deceitful in exploiting that reaction. In light of the extensive publicity revealing the dishonesty of the screenwriter, treating this as a faithful rendition does tremendous damage. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/arts/television/14reco.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=recount+wyatt&a mp;st=nyt&oref=slogin)

    by bergers on Mon May 26, 2008 at 04:14:40 PM PDT

•  This movie shows how the Rules Committee

  meeting will get played out on May 31st..... Its gonna be about who fights and works harder to get their point thru.

  by MasterHurrikane on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:39:57 PM PDT

  •  Good point n/t

    by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:53:48 PM PDT

•  As a Black man i must ask:

  Why in every election do the votes in AA areas get suppressed, not counted, endure old equipment etc.

  You'd think that the DNC would make sure that AA voters get new equipment for voting since AA is a strong Democratic support group.  I never hear about voter suppression in any other community except mine.

  Time to stand up and change this people!!!!

  by MasterHurrikane on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:43:32 PM PDT

  •  I think sadly

    there's limited funds for election machines, and assuming some of the AA areas you refer to are lower income, they have less power to demand better machines. Pathetic, I know.

    by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:49:01 PM PDT

    •  if the DNC can rake in a quarter of a billion

      dollars in an election year they can fix..

      Cyahoga county in Ohio
      Chicago in Illionois
      Miami-dade etc. in FL
      Richmond in Virginia
      Lake County in Indiana
      Philadelphia in PA
      ....

      notice a pattern here?

      why do i know these county names.. cuz they always fucking up...

      by MasterHurrikane on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:55:08 PM PDT

      •  maybe you need to be the one.

        theres a group called black box voting.

        by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:06:00 PM PDT

  •  I think the DNC would love to get the votes

    properly counted in AA communities.  Unfortunately, the equipment is purchased by the counties.  AND they don't seem to place the same priorities.  We need more AA - and just Democratic - power at the local level to address the issues.  We all get caught up in the dramatic national races, but the movie highlighted how the local politics - purchasing of voting machines,maintaining existing machines  local election boards, etc. - affects the nation results.  County commissioner, county judge, election judge, etc., may not be sexy, but they matter!  

    Of course, these day Diebold (which has renamed itself Premier Election Systems) counts about 80% of the votes in the country.  Fairly easily hacked software and no paper trail to allow recounts.  They may make 2000 look fair.

    by Anti Fanatic on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:00:02 PM PDT

•  Did not see this thread but

  I answered in another diary (which I rec'd)

  http://www.dailykos.com/...

  I think the diary is a great example of how we talk about the complex world to children.  Have a look if you have the time.

  by PoconoPCDoctor on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:46:14 PM PDT

•  Great movie but it's like I drank 3 Red Bulls...

  have that same pit in my stomach like I did back then.   There was some good stuff in there - like the counties that didn't even both to run the ballots through the machine a second time.  Instead they just re-verified the machine memory cards.  Argghhh!!! That could have been the election right there.   Also the Gore campaign not asking for a state-wide hand recount right off the bat.  

  by maryfromabluestate on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:49:28 PM PDT

•  Didn't you love how the Bush Lobbyist was

  "advising" Katherine Harris throughout the debacle?

  Shows why Mccain's team is very dangerous with all their "connections".

  by MasterHurrikane on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:50:53 PM PDT

  •  Yeah - that was one of the pieces

    I did not know about.  Probably still more behind that story.

    by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:52:09 PM PDT

  •  She was atty general AND

    one of the chairs of the Bush campaign. Should be listed under "conflict of interest" in the dictionary

    by NY Writer on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:52:19 PM PDT

    •  ala Kenneth "the Sambo" Blackwell in Ohio in '04

      by MasterHurrikane on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:56:23 PM PDT

    •  Um, actually

      wasn't she "Secretary of State" for Florida, rather than Attorney General?  But you're right about her being a co-chair of Bush's campaign.

      by Catatonia on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:24:52 PM PDT

      •  Her so-called "firewall" between duties was B.S.

        Harris wasn't just a partisan actively working for one side against the other in what is supposed to be a non-partisan post, she was also clueless and incompetent about her job.

        by gf120581 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:50:03 PM PDT

•  Read this

  From ABC News Senior National Correspondent Jake Tapper:

  The Portrayal of Katherine Harris in HBO's ‘Recount’

  Before anyone complains about Laura Dern's portrayal of then-Secretary of State of Florida Katherine Harris in HBO's movie "Recount"  (for which I was one of many journalists to serve as a consultant), they need to ask themselves this question: If director Jay Roach, producer Paula Weinstein, writer Danny Strong and the execs at HBO had included the following scene -- which they did not; I just wrote it this morning -- what would have been your reaction?

  You gotta read it.

  by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:05:30 PM PDT

  •  Love this part in particular

    That said, Republican lawyers involved in the recount have felt their portrayals were fair, and I agree. And more to the point: It's a very entertaining movie, and I highly recommend it.

    I thought of that as I watched the film which I felt showed the Repubs to be sleezy, but apparently they didn't get it.  Wow, so they have NO CLUE what sh*theads they appeared to be, huh?  Says a whole lot about them.

    by Tam in CA on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:21:34 PM PDT

    •  Noted that as well

      In all the PR events before tonight, great care was taken to explain that involved parties on both sides had been consulted and viewed the film or their parts in it for objectivity and accuracy.  

      Then I saw it and was surprised that they would have been so approving of being shown for the slimeballs they are.

      by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:33:50 PM PDT

•  The "Brooks Brothers" arranged

  riots was blood pressure inducing.

  by ZinZen on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:16:58 PM PDT

  •  Wasn't that amazing?

    the fact that a group of clean cut white boys were let through and caused chaos and actually attacked that man  just goes to show how unfair perceptions are in America.

    by Ambboogie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:27:11 PM PDT

•  Recount--an assault on our intelligence

  The film is invention, not fact, as the screenwriter had essentially admitted.. Those who have posted here who seem to be treating what they saw as what actually happened are falling into the screenwriter's and HBO's trap. The thought that in 5-10-20 years out kids might be required to view this schlag as evidence of what occurred in 2000 is worse than discouragin.

  by bergers on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:19:49 PM PDT

  •  Well folks who were actually involed

    were consulted and previewed and approved the film so you need to tell us more about what parts you disagree with.

    At the HBO site you can watch videos of...

    A conversation between Kevin Spacey and the real Ron Klain.

    and

    A Conversation Between Bob Balaban and the Real Ben Ginsberg

    by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:46:00 PM PDT

    •  Recount

      You do a pretty good job of covering this film yourself (by the way, your research on what and where I've posted leaves something to be desired).

      In any event, you don't need to rely on me:

      http://www.baltimoresun.com/...

      (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/arts/television/14reco.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=recount+wyatt&a mp;st=nyt&oref=slogin

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

      http://online.wsj.com/...

      You say Danny Strong interviewed those involved. Well he interviewed Christopher and Daley, both of whom he savages, after he began shooting. Also, he refused to give Christopher the script. Also, he gave it to Daley after shooting began. He also gave "approval" to neither. In fact, isn't it a bit odd that he gave "approval" to anyone?

      by bergers on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:30:16 PM PDT

      •  Takes no effort to reseach

        I just had to click your name, which I did because I didn't recognize it.

        It is just interesting that someone has such an interest in our opinions about a docudrama that they registered here just to counter a friggin film.

        by SarahLee on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:33:50 AM PDT

  •  also as I posted in another comment

    from Jake Tapper:

    I want to make this clear, since the way some interviews I've done about the film have been written maybe make it seem to some as if I'm a sharp critic of the film, which I am not. I liked it a lot.

    It is very enjoyable. It comes as close as is probably possible for a movie to come to portraying that crazy time. It's not history, it's a movie, but it comes pretty close.

    The filmmakers made the editorial decision to have Al Gore lawyer Ron Klain be the focus of the film, which probably made sense given the drama of the Gore-Klain relationship and the fact that the Democrats were the underdogs. That meant that the emotional core of the film makes it, probably, lean a little left. Not intellectually, but emotionally.

    That said, Republican lawyers involved in the recount have felt their portrayals were fair, and I agree. And more to the point: It's a very entertaining movie, and I highly recommend it.

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/...

    by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:04:13 PM PDT

    •  I would also suggest that others

      check bergers history - has never posted anything not related to this film.

      by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:09:12 PM PDT

      •  genuine astroturfer in action!

        Note to whoever hired the firm that employs bergers -- get a new PR firm.

        Clumsy and amateur.

        by silent no more on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:24:51 PM PDT

•  The movie must have been good

  because I am angry all over again. I know hindsight  is 20/20, but I wonder if the election thieves ever think about the 4000+ dead young Americans. I know this is a mean thought, but to me, GWB is the most incompetent and one of the worst things that has happened to our country in a long time.

  by roberta g on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:20:02 PM PDT

•  Some interesting stuff at the HBO site

  including:

  A Conversation Between Kevin Spacey and the Real Ron Klain Recount star Kevin Spacey talks to his real-life counterpart about the battle for the White House.

  They also ask you to cast a vote:
  WHO REALLY WON THE 2000 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION?

  http://www.hbo.com/...

  by SarahLee on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:45:24 PM PDT

•  Too Painful To Watch

  Didn't think I could go through this again.  Watched the last 1/2 hour.  That was enough.  Thanks for all your comments. It was too painful to go through then, and in light of the past 8 years, it was too devasting to go through again.

  by sarakandel on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:55:43 PM PDT

•  spoilt for choice

  but I'll add my tuppence-worth here on this thread.  I thought it was an excellent film.

  Kevin Spacey, as Klain, came across as someone who wanted the truth to prevail.  He didn't have any great personal devotion towards Al Gore, having been demoted from his previous role on Gore's team but his integrity in wanting to get to the truth shone through.

  I had never heard of Mr. Klain before.  Then, again, there were a lot of details in the film I didn't know before now.  I was in Africa at the time of the elections and the only communications with the outside world were via short-wave radio - no public TV or radio.  All we heard was that there was no president and then suddenly Bush was declared president.

  Katherine Harris - was she really the vain, shallow airhead, out of her depth who was so easily manipulated?  Kudos to the actress who portrayed her but what exactly was her (the real Harris I mean) role in the whole debacle.

  As for Joe Lieberman, enough said (double agent anybody?).  Same with the Supreme Court who should never have been involved in the first place.  Shame on them.

  I thought it was a great film and should be recommended viewing for anyone who doesn't really remember what went on in 2000.  The media haven't helped much either over the years.  

  I've started reading Jeffrey Toobin's 'The Nine' and he'll probably shed some light on the Supreme Court's decision in Bush v Gore but they have so much to answer for.

  I had tears in my eyes at the end of the film.  We don't know what a Gore presidency might have brought us but, I have little doubt, it wouldn't have wrought such havoc upon the world as this person has done in the name of president.    

  by atalanta on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:18:55 PM PDT

  •  Ron Klain was impressive indeed

    by NeuvoLiberal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:53:04 PM PDT

•  Excellent film! We just finished watching it...

  someone give Kevin Spacey an award immediately!!!!

  by ObamaManiac2008 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:02:57 PM PDT

•  I'm off to Wikipedia

  to see where some of these people are now.

  This cannot happen again.

  by Ambboogie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:28:46 PM PDT

•  I'm glad it made two important points

  That there was no basis for the Supreme Court graning a stay because there was no "irreperable harm" to Bush.  And that the court should not have short-ciruited the political process because, if necessary, Congress was perfectly capable of resolving the deadlock.  As the Constitution provides.

  by Paleo on Mon May 26, 2008 at 05:46:46 AM PDT

  •  The movie also made the point

    That what probably would have happened if the Supreme Court would not have intervened is that the Florida legislature (controlled by Repubs) would have awarded the delegates to Bush.  They claimed to be able to do that under the Constitutional provision that says the state legislatures decide who the delegates go to.  

    For those who don't remember, the Constitution puts the awarding of delegates solely in the hands of the legislature.  All the state legislatures have set up an election process where the people vote and then the the delegates are awarded in accordance with the vote of the people, but constituionally (and this is essentially a technicality at this point), the process operates that way only because that is what state legislatures allow.  The Florida legislature was claiming that the Florida Supreme Court did not abide by their process for choosing delegates (extending deadlines, changing the rules for counting votes, etc.) and so they were going to pass a law reasserting their authority to award delegates.

    So, even if Gore had gone ahead in the count, there were going to be two sets of delegates from Florida, and the House of Represenatatives would have had to choose which set of delegates to seat.  Guess which one the (then Repub)House would have chosen? (By the way, if I remember correctly, this kind of thing happened once before in the late 1800's, where the House of Reps was faced with two slates of delegates and chose the one from the party that held the majority in the House.)

    by coffeetalk on Mon May 26, 2008 at 07:06:26 AM PDT

•  Spoilers?

  Gore Loses

  by SFOrange on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:39:29 PM PDT

•  What's terribly wrong with this film

  The comments on this thread demonstrate just how dangerous and misleading a film like this can be. Viewers are sucked in to believing that what they see on the screen corresponds to what really happened. "Recount" and its marketing theme ("the story of the 2000 presidential election") are particularly deceitful in exploiting that reaction.

  In light of the screenwriter's admissions that he simply made up key scenes and words, to treat this as a faithful rendition of history does tremendous damage both to history and to the roles of people who played important roles in it. See:

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

  (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/arts/television/14reco.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=recount+wyatt&a mp;a mp;st=nyt&oref=slogin)

  by bergers on Mon May 26, 2008 at 04:23:52 PM PDT

  •  People understand what "docudrama" is

    It doesn't do "tremendous damage" as you suggest because viewers now and in the future aren't so stupid as to not understand what docudrama is.  History is certainly smart enough, in abstract.

    Of course the screenwriter is going to admit that certain scenes are made up -- it's done for the purpose of drama. But if screenwriter and key players of history agree that it's mostly fair and gets the big picture correct, then I think it's hard to criticize on the basis of historical accuracy.

    It's stilly to analyze it as if it were a documentary. It isn't, and no one is pretending that it is.  Lieberman's appearance in the movie isn't by an actor; it's by himself in historical footage.

    by EightBall on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:35:25 PM PDT

  •  Your astroturf efforts would be more effective

    if you at least varied your talking points.

    by silent no more on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:26:46 PM PDT

•  An Excellent Film

  Yes, it's entertainment, but this film does a very good job of pulling together a complex, chaotic event so that viewers come away with a better understanding of what went on and the strategies employed. The mechanical details of how a hanging or dimpled chad is created were superbly illustrated. Election law and recount law was also somewhat explained, including the view of gauging voter's intent as it relates to hand recounts.

  We Democrats faced an uphill battle in Florida -- it's always difficult if you're trailing and, as the film makes clear, there were few favorable judicial or legislative venues available.

  I got into working as an election officer after Florida 2000 out of curiousity about how the system really works (and it does work in Virginia). Still, one thing I've learned is the election officer's mantra: "Please let the best candidate win -- by a lot."

  The casting for the film was superb, too. If you've ever crossed paths with recount lawyer Jack Young, you would see how uncanny actor Steve DuMouchel's portrayal is.

  Yes, the film is about a dark time in our nation's history. However, there are lessons there as we try to move forward to brighter days.

  by D in Northern Virginia on Tue May 27, 2008 at 09:06:07 AM PDT