Daily Kos

May 6, 1882: Give me your tired, your poor, but not your Chinese.

Tue May 06, 2008 at 06:12:01 AM PDT

It is May 6, 1882. The U.S.'s first Transcontinental Railroad has been in place for almost 13 years to the day. The 19th century gold rush, which saw San Francisco's population boom, is kind of gone. The economy is in the shitter, and politicians are railing against yellow people as being the source of this malaise, since they'll work themselves to death. (Union what?) The Statue of Liberty, meant as a centennial gift but delivered 10 years late, is still being financed.

With the U.S.'s no longer needing cheap labor to risk life, limb and bucket blowing holes in mountains, the Burlingame Treaty, a piece of goodwill legislation enacted in 1868 with China, is essentially tossed aside. (Apparently Chinese ambassadors didn't ask the pre-Euro invasion inhabitants of this land about our history of honoring treaties.) Initially this is done by suspending Chinese immigration — but assuring the Chinese people in America, however long they have been here, that their rights will be recognized.

On May 6, 1882, the U.S. drops any pretense of honor, passes the Chinese Exclusion Act, and screws the Chinese in America until 1965.

The parallels between the Chinese Exclusion Act and the current immigration debate are frankly frightening. Consider:

A) Web browsers have been around for 14 years, and the railroad had been in service for 13 years.
B) The dot-com bubble has burst, albeit more recently than the gold rush had slowed.
C) The economy is in the shitter.
D) That discounted oil we were supposed to get from Iraq in exchange for their freedom is fantastically late. (That's the Statue of Liberty analogy.)
E) Outsourcing has taken a lot of jobs overseas, just as the railroad jobs dried up.
F) Let's blame brown people!
G) This was the first piece of immigration-restricting legislation, and we're currently working on building our first border fence (excluding the one in Iraq).
H) National ID card, meet certificate of residence.
I) Path to citizenship by first leaving the country, paying a fine and getting in line behind everyone else, meet imprisonment, deportation and a ban on non-whites' (regardless of how long they had been in the country) becoming U.S. citizens. (That one, as you'll see later, had been in place for a while.)

For all people want to talk about this election as possibly mirroring that of any in the 1930s, the similarities between 2008 and 1882 scare me.

Here, in all its yellowed, racist glory, is the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Or, if you'd like a version King George could have read, read and weep (underlining is in original; italics is in transcript; bolding is mine):

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That from and after the expiration of ninety days next after the passage of this act, and until the expiration of ten years next after the passage of this act, the coming of Chinese laborers to the United States be, and the same is hereby, suspended; and during such suspension it shall not be lawful for any Chinese laborer to come, or having so come after the expiration of said ninety days to remain within the United States.

But the 1882 act was just the beginning. Many Chinese people were still getting into the country (though fewer compared to the gush from China into the 1880s), despite the provision of the 1882 act forbidding skilled or unskilled laborers from immigrating and restricting family-based "entry only to those that had been born in the U.S. or had husbands or fathers who were citizens." Since Chinese people could not become citizens, the restriction effectively meant that if you, a Chinese person of however many generations in the U.S., wanted to take a trip to China, you might as well just move, because it would be far too straining an ordeal to bother trying to get back into the States.

Now, not everyone supported this measure. Senator George Frisbie Hoar, a man all American schoolchildren (and all Kossacks) would do well to learn about in history class, opposed it. He also spoke out for blacks and women and had this to say about America's military action in the Phillipines, remarks that with precious little editing could today be delivered regarding the war in Iraq:

You have wasted nearly six hundred millions of treasure. You have sacrificed nearly ten thousand American lives—the flower of our youth. You have devastated provinces. You have slain uncounted thousands of the people you desire to benefit. You have established reconcentration camps. Your generals are coming home from their harvest bringing sheaves with them, in the shape of other thousands of sick and wounded and insane to drag out miserable lives, wrecked in body and mind. You make the American flag in the eyes of a numerous people the emblem of sacrilege in Christian churches, and of the burning of human dwellings, and of the horror of the water torture. Your practical statesmanship which disdains to take George Washington and Abraham Lincoln or the soldiers of the Revolution or of the Civil War as models, has looked in some cases to Spain for your example. I believe—nay, I know—that in general our officers and soldiers are humane. But in some cases they have carried on your warfare with a mixture of American ingenuity and Castilian cruelty.
 Your practical statesmanship has succeeded in converting a people who three years ago were ready to kiss the hem of the garment of the American and to welcome him as a liberator, who thronged after your men when they landed on those islands with benediction and gratitude, into sullen and irreconciliable enemies, possessed of a hatred which centuries can not eradicate.
 The practical statesmanship of the Declaration of Independence and the Golden Rule would have cost nothing but a few kind words. They would have bought for you the great title of liberator and benefactor, which your fathers won for your country in the South American Republics and in Japan, and which you have won in Cuba. They would have bought for you undying gratitude of a great and free people and the undying glory which belongs to the name of liberator. That people would have felt for you as Japan felt for you when she declared last summer that she owed everything to the United States of America.

And according to his biographer, Hoar "believed that 'Chinese exclusion represented nothing less than the legalization of racial discrimination.'" Gee, ya think?

(In my research for this article, I came across one of those wonderful Southern Democrat types. Check out a man who walked out of the 1936 Democratic National Convention because a black preacher was about to address the gathering, then said the late Sen. John C. Calhoun would have lauded that racist reaction. Ellison D. Smith, this was your life, and what good you could have done with it.)

So our beloved government, looking at something that had stemmed the flow of Chinese people into the country and made assimilation more difficult, felt it had to make life even more fun. Anti-miscegenation laws were on the books until 1948. That same site has the ruling on naturalized citizens: They must be "free white persons." Not a Chinaman's chance indeed.

And then some politicians realized that pandering to race fears could go beyond one kind of Asian — and beyond even Asia. Indeed, the Immigration Act of 1924 can be held accountable for some of the concentration camp carnage:

At the same time, thousands of persons sought to flee totalitarian regimes like that in Nazi Germany. Since American immigration policies failed to distinguish between immigrants and refugees in the quota counts, most of the refugees (principally Jews) were barred from coming to the United States.

Here is the 1924 act's definition of immigrant:

DEFINITION OF IMMIGRANT. SEC. 3. When used in this Act the term "immigrant" means an alien departing from any place outside the United States destined for the United States, except (1) a government official, his family, attendants, servants, and employees, (2) an alien visiting the United States temporarily as a tourist or temporarily for business or pleasure, (3) an alien in continuous transit through the United States, (4) an alien lawfully admitted to the United States who later goes in transit from one part of the United States to another through foreign contiguous territory, (5) a bona fide alien seaman serving as such on a vessel arriving at a port of the United States and seeking to enter temporarily the United States solely in the pursuit of his calling as a seaman, and (6) an alien entitled to enter the United States solely to carry on trade under and in pursuance of the provisions of a present existing treaty of commerce and navigation.

Now, I'd think "I want to avoid being gassed by Nazis" would qualify as pleasure (section (2)), but I am not a lawyer.

Oh, and a history lesson for use against anti-immigration folks (Lou Dobbs, are you paying attention?):

[continuation of the definition of a NON-QUOTA IMMIGRANT:] (c) An immigrant who was born in the Dominion of Canada, Newfoundland, the Republic of Mexico, the Republic of Cuba, the Republic of Haiti, the Dominican Republic, the Canal Zone, or an independent country of Central or South America, and his wife, and his unmarried children under 18 years of age, if accompanying or following to join him; [...]

(The term non-quota immigrant refers to an immigrant from a country where there is no immigration quota. All of South America could have come to the states in 1925 completely legally.)

So, in the spirit of Republican arguments against John Kerry (and which have mysteriously disappeared as a mark against a presidential candidate since John McCain ascended), we were for unlimited Mexican immigration before we were against it. We ... changed our mind. (We were for it back then for much the same reason many pro-business folks are for it now: cheap farm labor.)

The difference between 2008 and 1924, for those of you following at home, is that all the wedge issues — before immigration came up again — favored Democrats. Republicans decided they hated immigrants largely because they thought such hate would deliver votes, not because of any actual concern over the number of Americans who want badly to be picking tomatoes for 35 cents an hour but who are turned back because the Mexicans have beaten them there.


So here you are, faithful progressive Kossack, wondering what we can learn from this 80-year love affair with hating Chinese people (and later, Asians in general). How can we stop it? Well, the Chinese got a break when we ended up being allied with them in World War II, though they — and citizens of other non-Western nations — didn't stop getting the legal shaft until 1965. So maybe the trick is to get that Coalition of the Willing going again, but this time with a bunch of Mexicans. (The trouble with this, as I channel my inner Republican, is that Mexicans look too much like Arabs. Shades of Windtalkers.)

Or maybe the trick is to realize that history is repeating itself, as I indicated earlier. The parallels are there, and they are frightening — even down to the closeness of the electoral college decision before immigration became a huge issue. Rutherford B. Hayes, seeing an electoral college deadlock, was elected essentially based on his promise to remove federal troops from the Southern states and thus free up white southerners to make life hell for black people for the next, oh ... 131 years, two months, four days and counting. (Yes, it's gotten better. No, it's not yet acceptable. Call me when environmental racism isn't still poisoning black children and Republicans aren't still refusing to take a stand on lynching.) And we all know of George W. Bush and his massive electoral college and popular vote win in 2000.

But the parallels are there in more than the historical similarities. The parallels are there in terms of the political and social plays being made by the people pushing for what one might call the Hispanic Exclusion Act of 2009 (since this year's debate for such an act seems to have died):

A) Blaming foreigners (some of whom aren't so foreign) for the problems our beloved government has discovered it can foist upon the American people and the next administration.
B) Breaking up families by deporting the parents because they were born not on American soil but only near it.
C) Using divisive terms ("illegals" or "aliens" now, "An act to limit the migration of aliens into the United States..." then) instead of treating humans with respect.
D) Seeing Mexicans and other brown immigrants as being only migrant workers lacking the education to, say, run flower shops. (Ask me how I know.)
E) One party's demonizing people it has been taking advantage of — whether for blowing up mountains or picking produce so it doesn't spoil.

(The intimation on the part of Colorado, of course, is that it's better to be in prison than to be an undocumented immigrant. Seems to me the person smart enough to not get caught shouldn't be the one being punished. But that's Tom Tancredo for you.)

So next time you hear someone talking about how immigrants don't assimilate, slap that person upside the head inform that person of the government's role from 1880 to 1965 forbidding immigrants — however long ago their families had immigrated — from assimilating. Tell them about the rule on who could be a citizen of this country, of how long it was before interracial marriages could not legally be forbidden.

Oh, and since that person will inevitably be a deeply Christian Republican, give them this Bible verse and watch as they hem and haw and talk about context (which never mattered when they were quoting Leviticus at me):

Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt.

Poll

The last poll was a tie, so I'm going to write about the muppets, since writing about all this oppressive stuff is a serious downer. Next unwritten diary:

32%14 votes
60%26 votes
6%3 votes

| 43 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Chinese Exclusion Act, Transcontinental Railroad, biblical hypocrisy, George Santayana, brown people, Rescued (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 31 comments

  •  Tips and other Todays in History (15+ / 0-)

    Since we last met:

    1215 - Rebel Barons renounce their allegiance to King John. This was part of a chain of events leading to the Magna Carta signing.
    1809 - Mary Kies becomes the first woman awarded a U.S. patent, for a technique of weaving straw with silk and thread.
    1809 - The Swiss canton of Aargau denies citizenship to Jews.
    1821 - Emperor Napoleon I dies in exile on the island of Saint Helena in the South Atlantic Ocean.
    1877 - Indian Wars: Sitting Bull leads his band of Lakota into Canada to avoid harassment by the United States Army under Colonel Nelson Miles.
    1886 - The Bay View Tragedy occurs, as militia fire upon a crowd of protesters in Milwaukee, Wisconsin killing seven.
    1904 - Pitching against the Philadelphia Athletics at the Huntington Avenue Grounds, Cy Young of the Boston Americans throws the first perfect game in the modern era of baseball.
    1920 - Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti are arrested, accused of robbery and murder.
    1925 - Scopes Trial: John T. Scopes is served an arrest warrant for teaching evolution in violation of the Butler Act.
    1945 - World War II: German troops in the Netherlands and Denmark capitulate to Canadian and British forces, liberating these countries from Nazi occupation.
    1987 - Iran-Contra affair: Start of Congressional televised hearings.
    1992 - The 27th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is ratified.

    Birth of:
    1813 - Søren Kierkegaard, Danish philosopher (d. 1855)
    1818 - Karl Marx, German political philosopher (d. 1883)
    1865 - Nellie Bly, American journalist and writer (d. 1922)
    1926 - Ann B. Davis, American actress
    1943 - Michael Palin, British writer, actor, and comedian (Monty Python)
    1959 - Brian Williams, American news anchor
    1973 - Tina Yothers, American actress (Family Ties)
    1981 - Danielle Fishel, American actress (The Wonder Years)

    Death of:
    1981 - Bobby Sands, Irish activist (b. 1954)

    Celebration of:
    Mexico and the United States: Cinco de Mayo (1862).
    The Netherlands: Liberation Day (1945).

    Other Todays in History:

    1536 - King Henry VIII orders translated Bibles be placed in every church.
    1877 - Chief Crazy Horse of the Oglala Sioux surrenders to United States troops in Nebraska.
    1882 - Thomas Henry Burke and Lord Frederick Cavendish are stabbed and killed during the Phoenix Park Murders in Dublin.
    1882 - The United States Congress passes the Chinese Exclusion Act.
    1889 - The Eiffel Tower is officially opened to the public at the Universal Exposition in Paris.
    1935 - New Deal: Executive Order 7034 creates the Works Progress Administration.
    1937 - Hindenburg disaster: The German zeppelin Hindenburg catches fire and is destroyed within a minute while attempting to dock at Lakehurst, New Jersey. Thirty-six people are killed.
    1940 - John Steinbeck is awarded the Pulitzer Prize for his novel The Grapes of Wrath.
    1941 - At California's March Field, Bob Hope performs his first USO show.
    1954 - Roger Bannister becomes the first person to run the mile in under four minutes.
    1981 - A jury of architects and sculptors unanimously selects Maya Ying Lin's design for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial from 1,421 other entries.
    1983 - The Hitler diaries are revealed as a hoax when experts examine the books and conclude that they are fake.

    Birth of:
    1856 - Sigmund Freud, Austrian psychiatrist (d. 1939)
    1856 - Robert Peary, American explorer (d. 1920)
    1868 - Tsar Nicholas II of Russia (d. 1918)
    1915 - Orson Welles, American director (d. 1985)
    1931 - Willie Mays, American baseball player
    1937 - Rubin Carter, American boxer
    1944 - Masanori Murakami, first Japanese baseball player in major leagues
    1945 - Bob Seger, American singer/songwriter
    1953 - Tony Blair, former British prime minister
    1960 - Roma Downey, Northern Irish actress
    1961 - George Clooney, American actor
    death of:
    1862 - Henry David Thoreau, American author and philosopher (b. 1817)
    1902 - Bret Harte, American author (b. 1836)
    1919 - L. Frank Baum, American writer (b. 1856)
    1952 - Maria Montessori, Italian educator (b. 1870)
    1992 - Marlene Dietrich, German actress (b. 1901)

    (Information courtesy of Wikipedia, where I get most of the inspiration for my series.)

    What else happened today in history?

  •  Smallpox. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dogemperor, YoyogiBear, MooseHB

    Captain Cook delivering the blankets to the Salish and Sandwich Islands. 90% mortality soon follows the natives of North America.

    Gotta love neglected history.

    "Our world is not a bullet point, added to a speech to drum up support or votes. It is the point of all that we do and are as a species."

    by Patch Adam on Tue May 06, 2008 at 06:15:55 AM PDT

  •  The beginning of so-called "illegal immigration" (4+ / 0-)

    That's what the Chinese Exclusion Act should signify for us today.

    Before anti-Asian sentiments made their way into law there was no such thing as immigration law in this country, only naturalization law.  The quotas which followed for the whole of the Eastern Hemisphere after WWI and for the Western Hemisphere after WWII, these constructions which made a certain number of people legal and any above this number illegal, all of these are derived from the original Chinese Exclusion Act.

    For the Chinese and for the people of the Asia-Pacific Triangle the act was expanded to, the number was 0.  The law made them "aliens ineligible to citizenship."

    One of the saddest episodes in U.S. history... and it was only partially ended in the 1950s and 1960s.  Its legacy lives on.

    Barack Obama -- The President we were promised as kids! -- Obama/Richardson '08!

    by Ruby JM on Tue May 06, 2008 at 06:20:41 AM PDT

    •  Not After WWII, During (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      truong son traveler, dogemperor

      When the Chinese allied the U.S. against Japan, we decided to lift the ban on Chinese immigration and set a global quota for 100 Chinese immigrants.

      The fact that this was a global quota made it unique, and was no accident. The State Department was concerned about Chinese immigrants in South America, Mexico, and, to a lesser extent Canada, migrating under those countries quotas.

      So, rather than give China a national quota, we established what could be called an 'ethnic' quota, and the first time immigration from the Western Hemisphere was restricted by the government.

      When it comes to immigration law, keeping the Chinese out usually leads to the big 'firsts.' First photo ID's issued by the U.S. government were produced because the Geary Act (1892) required all Chinese in the country to have them to prove they were here legally.

      All this to make the point that if you're arguing with a conservative about immigration, you can bring up the massive expansion of bureaucracy required by every new level of restriction added to see if they really have a problem with 'big government.'

      •  The effect of an ID, I think (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        dogemperor

        in the certificate of residence. But I didn't see any source -- though I obviously didn't look at every source -- see there was a photographic requirement, which would have sent the cost of such a document positively soaring.

        I agree without reservation on the amount of hypocrisy required for a conservative to argue in favor of tighter immigration laws and less government. I find that "less government" argument is usually applied more as "I really don't want to have to obey this particular law, and law is government, so the fewer laws we have, the better we will be."

        (I can't imagine how anyone could apply that to Bush ...)

  •  Different Times (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dogemperor

    We were a smaller nation at the time and we generally didn't like yellow people.  I am not going to judge the folks of the 1800s on our values today.  

    With regards to todays "Illegal Alien" issue.  I wrote and made a promise to my two senators and congressman that if they voted for Bush's Amnesty bill I would vote for their opponent no matter who it was.  I will follow through with that.  I will not vote for Ron Klein, Nelson or Martinez.  I think this issue is very easy.  No new laws need to be passed.  Start enforcing our current laws against employing "Illegal Aliens" and put some business owners out of business as well as put a few in Jail.  Jobs dry up they will go home on their own.

    I also believe that our immigration policy should be tightened so that the only way you get in is if you are rich or you are highly skilled or educated.  We are not here to take in all the rejects from the world.  We don't need anymore citizens; in the old days we did.  Not very progressive but its about the health of our nation not charity.

    •  the same times (4+ / 0-)

      The color changes, the thought remains the same: If there's something wrong with America, blame the people who aren't from America.

      "I am not going to judge the folks of the 1800s on our values today."

      Then you should find nothing wrong with what Ellison Smith said and everything wrong with George Frisbie Hoar -- if we're judging them by their time instead of ours.

      Oh, and who is going to pick fruit -- and pay for it -- with all of our migrant workers disappearing? Or do you want to pay three times what you're paying for a tomato?

      One of the provisions of the 1924 bill was that you could come here if your purpose was to go to school.

      I assume you exclude natural-born Americans from your "We don't need anymore [sic] citizens" line.

      •  pay three times what you're paying for a tomato? (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        dogemperor, MooseHB

        Do you want to pay three times what you're paying for a tomato?

        Well... yes, actually. And the same goes for the banana that is picked in another country and shipped to mine.

        I want labor to be expensive, and capital to be cheap. Do you want to keep labor cheap, to save your pocket book? Then the Republican Party is over there.

        •  Many of those tomatoes (5+ / 0-)

          are being grown in this country. FYI.

          I would not mind having labor be expensive if the rights of workers were thereby safeguarded. I do not object to that at all. I very much object to the argument that immigrants are evil and bad and Americans are just dying to take backbreaking, below-1968-minimum-wage work.

          If the price increase means the workers are safe, I'm happy to pay it. I already pay it for work done by unionized workers. I simply don't see the point of paying more for something because there's less of it because the workers who used to do the job have been deported, and we have acres of produce sitting around rotting.

    •  'No New Laws'? (3+ / 0-)

      Are you prepared to defend the current immigration system, as it's designed, ideal?

      I'd be interested in hearing how you'd justify the arbitrary manner the way the total quota for immigration is set, or how it ignores longstanding patterns of seasonal immigration. If you really believe we don't need anymore citizens, I'd like to know what you'd do to keep Social Security solvent once our national birth rate matches that of Western Europe.

      But I'd be most interested in figuring out how you squared the circle of at once being a nation committed to promoting human rights, while simultaneously continuing restrictionist immigration policies that lead to human rights abuses.

  •  Reading (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dogemperor, BentLiberal, iampunha

    If you're interested in the topic, there are a number of good reads on American immigration history:

    Impossible Subjects: Illegal Aliens and the Making of Modern America
    by Mae M. Ngai

    Coming to America: A History of Immigration and Ethnicity in American Life
    by Roger Daniels

    Strangers From a Distant Shore
    by Ronald Takaki

    World of Our Fathers: The Journey of the East European Jews to America and the Life They Found and Made
    by Irving Howe

  •  the more i read about late 19th (4+ / 0-)

    and early 20th century america, the less novel the current immigration debate looks.

    and you are correct to point out that it all goes back to the exclusion acts. for white immigrants, the only law was to ask them to sign their name at the border, if that.

    surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

    by wu ming on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:37:58 PM PDT

    •  Went beyond white (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      truong son traveler, dogemperor

      One of the sources I looked at, and which I would have linked in my diary except that I had filled my weekly allotment of tangents, had a map of European immigration by country.

      The U.S. wanted immigrants who spoke English or something similar (such as German). Turks, Hungarians, Greeks, Austrians etc. are massively underrepresented, if my memory of the map serves.

      Based on my research for this diary (which the Ranger so graciously deemed impeccable), it seems pretty obvious that not only are we living in the late 19th century redux, we are right now on track to only marginally improve the result of that immigration debate.

      •  Try to become Chinese (0+ / 0-)

        It's illegal if you're not ethnically Chinese.

        •  That might be more ... (0+ / 0-)

          because of the massive population than because of some other form of ethnocentrism.

          (What I know about Chinese culture could, forgive the horrible joke, be inscribed on a grain of rice.)

          •  I think it's ethnocentrism. (0+ / 0-)

            Definitely. The Chinese generally consider land, people, country and language to be all more or less the same thing. The modern nation-state is an afterthought.

            What it means to be Chinese in light of the rise of the West -- especially upstart America -- pretty much turned the Chinese sense of order on its head. They can no longer ignore the West.

            And they're paying attention now, especially to the rules of the game...

            We can (and do) influence China in lots of ways at the moment, positively, negatively... I think Obama is going to herald a new age of diplomacy and effectiveness with Asia. At least I certainly hope so.

            The sleep of reason brings forth monsters.

            by beijingbetty on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:19:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Not quite true. (0+ / 0-)

          Not 'illegal', which makes no sense. There is no law prohibiting it.

          It's just exceedingly rare, and difficult, to become a card-carrying member of the PRC. Not that there has been overwhelming demand in this regard.

          China is not yet an open society, much less an immigrant nation like the US. I would like to see this change...

          But I do not see quid pro quo as having much bearing here. Or are US immigration policies generally a response to quid pro quo relations with other nations?

          The sleep of reason brings forth monsters.

          by beijingbetty on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:10:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Can't speak for much of U.S. policy ... (0+ / 0-)

            But bear in mind that for much of our history, the aim of one-way travelers (so to speak) has been to get in here, not get in somewhere else from here.

            The Burlingame Treaty was quid pro quo in theory and not even close to that in practice -- unless you know of a common labor practice in China that easily killed American immigrants.

  •  The History/Source of Your Titular Quote (0+ / 0-)

    All that "huddled masses" stuff isn't actually enshrined in the Constitution, it's graffiti added to a statue we didn't ask for...

    We have no intention of prosecuting Rush Limbaugh because lying through your teeth and being stupid isn't a crime.

    by The Baculum King on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:02:06 AM PDT

    •  Actually (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Heiuan, dogemperor

      I know it isn't in the Constitution. I never said it was in the Constitution. What makes you think there was any connection between the Constitution and the poem?

      I also don't know where you get the notion that the poem inscribed on bronze is any kind of graffiti. But beyond that issue, who gives a shit? It's iconic literature.

      Lastly, while we did not ask for the statue, we helped finance it. So while you're technically right, it's mighty misleading to suggest that the statue showed up one day and we did a Trojan Horse doubletake and said, "Where the heck do we put this thing? ... Hmm. Anyone got a problem with scaring immigrants with a giant blue woman with spikes coming out of her forehead? No? Good!"

      •  It Gets Quoted Like It's Scripture (0+ / 0-)

        No, you certainly didn't say or insinuate that it was in the Constitution, but many treat it like it was.

        I thought you were asking for suggestions for future historical Diary topics.

        Forgive the dog shit out of me.

        We have no intention of prosecuting Rush Limbaugh because lying through your teeth and being stupid isn't a crime.

        by The Baculum King on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:19:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Declaration of Independence (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          dogemperor

          Gets quoted like it's the Constitution, and if you tried to make a legal argument based on it, you'd be screwed.

          However, if you're having a debate over America's cultural and political values, it's legitimate to cite the Declaration, or Scripture, or Emma Lazarus. So long as you acknowledge their context in the debate, it's fine to make reference to them.

          Personally, I think Lazarus was as critical in making our national creed explicit as Jefferson (really Franklin, but that's another topic).

          •  Jefferson<-Franklin<-Locke (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Heiuan, dogemperor

            "Personally, I think Lazarus was as critical in making our national creed explicit as Jefferson (really Franklin, but that's another topic)."

            Really Locke, as I detailed in my most unloved diary ever (and by far not my worst). And if you want to get picky, Locke was only picking up where other thinkers stopped off for whatever reason.

            (I am not asserting that Locke wrote any of America's founding documents, but the Declaration of Independence is practically the writer screaming "John Locke you ROCK MY WORLD! ROCK AND ROLL FOREVER!")

            •  Plaigarism (0+ / 0-)

              is the highest form of imitation?

              •  Plagiarism is a recent concept (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                beijingbetty

                Some quick points on plagiarism:

                Though the word exists in the early 17th century, the concept of being punished for taking one person's ideas and making them better -- without giving credit -- does not exist then. For evidence of this, one need look only as far as Shakespeare, who would be sued up, down, left, right and backward today if he tried to pawn off Romeo and Juliet as anything but a story told an uncountable number of times.

                In fact, printing law in England (I haven't studied its history in other countries) was far more concerned with printers' putting out stuff that opposed the crown or the church. Nobody really cared about someone who copied someone else, in large part because the culture of the time was not "Who's it by?" but "How good it is?" This was in fact the exact attitude Shakespeare's audience had.

                This, in turn, is probably based off the pragmatism of the time. While it is well possible to make a living off writing now, in the 17th century, you weren't making a living writing for the common people, by and large. Gordon had his Lordship (Lord Byron, natch), the Shelleys mooched off him, and the poet laureate from the start was a position paid by the crown, not folio sales. As writing for the masses became more viable, ownership of that writing became something worth defending.

              •  Ironically the US was late to the concept of (0+ / 0-)

                copyright, which began in England. Our excuse was that we were a developing nation and could not afford the fees. American publishers refused to pay Dickens, Poe -- as well as our own poor, beleaguered men and women of letters.

                We didn't actually sign on to the Berne Convention until 1989.

                The sleep of reason brings forth monsters.

                by beijingbetty on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:31:01 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Slightly misleading (0+ / 0-)

                  Copyright law was in effect in the 17th century (though certainly not in the way it is used today), fully 100 years before the U.S. was anything but a pipedream.

                  Failing to adhere to developing standards in the 18th and 19th centuries, though -- they got no excuse for that.

                  •  I just find it ironic (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    Heiuan

                    in the case of China and IP law that Americans seem to think it the equivalent of stealing... (which it is) when the US itself was late to the IP party, citing the same kinds of reasons.

                    The US today still has weak copyright law compared to Europe and Australia.

                    For example, in the entertainment industry, much of copyright law is effectively moderated by agreements between guilds in the US. Witness the recent writers' strike.

                    In the case of China, we have the worst of both worlds: weak basic copyright law (modelled on the US), and weak guilds/industry to effectively regulate and enforce agreements.

                    A bit OT I know...

                    The sleep of reason brings forth monsters.

                    by beijingbetty on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:29:51 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  asdf (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          dogemperor, BentLiberal

          I am forever in search of obscure and interesting subjects for Todays in History. However, please note the following text in my poll:

          "Something I will detail in a response to your tip jar."

          There were no responses to my tip jar. Of relevance to your comment, in particular, is that it was not a response to my tip jar. So when I saw where you put it, I assumed it was not meant as a future diary suggestion. Since you also did not say "You might research the history of that titular poem and try to figure out why so many people think it's practically emblazoned on the thing," I think it entirely justifiable to assume you were not suggesting it as a diary entry but levying some sort of criticism against me.

          At any rate, offense taken is hereby withdrawn, and Og knows there are bigger things to worry about than how something inscribed on bronze can be graffiti:)

  •  1880's redux (0+ / 0-)

    For all people want to talk about this election as possibly mirroring that of any in the 1930s, the similarities between 2008 and 1882 scare me.

    So true!  You make a strong case for the parallel in immigration policy,  but the similarity plays out in other areas as well. The issue I have been looking at is net neutrality.  I think this is one of the core issues of "21st-century populism" (corporate media conglomerates versus the people) with, as you say, scary similarity to the 1880's/90's Populism (railroads et alia versus the people).

    While the original Populist Party died out, we can see from their 1892 platform that some of their ideas eventually came to be:

    The party's platform, commonly known as the Omaha Platform, called for the abolition of national banks, a graduated income tax, direct election of Senators, civil service reform, a working day of eight hours and Government control of all railroads, telegraphs, and telephones.

    hmmm...I also see from Wikipedia
    that the Populist Party supported the "Knights of Labor" who

    strongly supported the Chinese Exclusion Act (and) in Tacoma, Washington worked to expel the city's Chinese, which amounted to nearly a tenth of the overall city population at the time.

    Don't know what that says about today...

  •  Other parallels (0+ / 0-)

    There are numerous other parallels. Here are just a couple from my study of California history.

    Anti-Chinese sentiment was extremely popular. Promoting the rights of (non-Chinese) working people was very popular. No connection was usually made between the rights of working non-Chinese and working Chinese, whether immigrants or Chinese-Americans. (see contemporary anti-Hispanic sentiment)

    California actually had a Second Constitutional Convention to rewrite the original California Constitution, largely to remove rights from the Chinese. (See current efforts to withdraw rights from aliens, gay people, etc.)

    Since Chinese were mostly wanted for manual labor, women were largely excluded from immigration except for a few who were admitted to become prostitutes. (see Marianas Islands)

Permalink | 31 comments