Daily Kos

Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is

Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:43:30 PM PDT

Cross-posted at MyDD.

Now that the pundits have called the nomination for Obama and some Clinton supporters are calling for Hillary to withdraw, unity diaries are popping up like crazy paired with response diaries asking us not to capitulate.

Clinton supporters are demanding that Obama supporters apologize. Obama supporters are demanding Clinton supporters concede. Supporters on both sides are asking for unity and reconciliation. Almost everyone is blaming the other side for the divisions.

Democrats, listen up. Our tent is not as big as we pretend it is. We live in pockets and bubbles, and we are just as intolerant as our opponents. We are the proverbial frog in the well. If we want real healing and not just a band aid, then we need to take a long hard look at ourselves.

I want to share with you some feedback I've received from friends and family who plan to vote for Obama in November. As you read these, think long and hard about how Clinton supporters are feeling right now. See this primary season from their perspective. Try to understand why Clinton supporters might be feeling as offended by our side as we've felt by their side.

I have a progressive friend who goes to all of the peace protests and has environmental sit-ins and all the "far left" kind of stuff, but one of his pet issues is illegal immigration (he believes massive immigration is harmful to the environment). He was furious about the "bitter" comment. He said that it was a direct attack on people who want to fix the immigration problem. These are his words:

If he was just saying we were angry it would be one thing -- and it would be true. That's not what he was saying. Obama was showing his contempt for people who are opposed to free trade and of course said that those who want to reform immigration are irrational and racist. Of course he slammed gun owners too.

He can't get off the hook on this one. I'm actually sick and tired of hearing him bash immigration reformists. He did it in that Phoenix rally, and I have heard him do it many other times. In my mind he said it one too many times.

Let's face it, Obama was telling "us" that we are just a bunch of small minded people from little cities. Harumph to that because I'm not from little cities and I don't enjoy hearing him put me down.

Oh, and another thing -- Obama and Clinton are both cowards. Neither of them are willing to visit Hazleton. They are both showing that they are incapable of leading this country. McCain hasn't visited Hazleton either and I doubt he will, but of course he isn't competing there in a primary.

Obama really screwed up this time. The Wright thing probably should have done him in, but this will at least in PA. If Hillary was credible she could kick his ass over this one, but of course all we can say is she was smart enough not to be so elitist.

If the Democrats were smart (and of course they aren't) they would ditch both of these losers for somebody that could beat McCain.

This guy is a lifelong Democrat and an Obama supporter. Ok, so he had a short hiatus in the Green Party, but he's back in the Democratic Party, and he's here to stay. He even supports Obama enough to actually volunteer for the campaign. But the "bitter" comments pissed him off. Royally. I don't see what he saw, but his feelings are legitimate.

This is what one of my relatives said about Obama's bitter comments and Reverend Wright:

Obama said religion is a crutch, that god isn't real, just a crutch for people to cling to. He said religion is like a rag doll or a blanket.

He is not a religious man. How could he say what he said if he didn't feel some of that himself. Some of the people he was talking about are very devout, and he didn't consider any value to that.

His church does not practice the same Christianity as most churches in America. Definitely not white churches.

She didn't see that as racist. She sees Reverend Wright as the one who is racist. Again, I don't see what she sees, and I disagree with her whole heartedly, but her feelings are legitimate.

I talked to a couple of young girls at the local university a couple of months ago, and they were supporting Clinton because they want to see a woman in the white house. They believe that Clinton has the most experience and that this political season was nothing more than the men pushing out a more qualified woman. They see an upstart young man with little experience trumping an older, more experienced woman, and they feel the personal sting of a woman defending one of her own. Again, I don't see what they see -- I believe Obama is the better candidate, but their feelings are legitimate.

A couple of weeks ago I had lunch with a younger couple just starting out. My twenty five year old friend has never voted before and is planning to vote for Obama in November. She did not vote in the primary. Her boyfriend recently finished a stint in the military and grew up in a small, poverty-stricken town. He is an hourly manager for a large retail change and had just come from taking a psychological profiling test, which his companies gives to employees looking to move into salaried management.

There was a question on his exam that asked about "the ivory tower way of thinking," and he didn't know what "ivory tower" meant. I explained it to him, and the conversation immediately turned to Obama. Something clicked with the half dozen or so people at the table: Elitism, Obama. No one prompted it, the transition in conversation happened automatically, naturally.

How many phrases are there to describe "the liberal elite"? California liberals. Elite liberal media. Affluent liberals. Latte liberals. Berkleyites (I'm not even sure how to spell that one). Damn hippies. Old hippy. Socialist. Commie. Bleeding heart. Tax'n'spend liberal. Do-gooder.

Heck, a lot of people think Edwards lost because he was reduced to nothing more than a hair joke. One $400 hair cut, and he was a populist no more.

In some parts of the country, liberal is its own pejorative. Imagine how thrilled Democrats in Idaho must have been to find out this year that other Democrats do exist in their state. I saw one person on the MyBO site (i.e., an Obama supporter) say something to the effect of, "I thought 'Democrat in Idaho' was a mythical creature."

Even given all of this, even given our own resentment of the pejorative label of the word liberal, most of us have an image in our mind of "the enlightened liberal". You know what I'm talking about. The liberal who knows what's good for you. The liberal who wants to save you from yourself. The liberal who wants to take what you've earned and spread it around for everybody to share. Yeah, that (mythical) person.

If you've read this far, how are you feeling right about now? Are you feeling resentful? A little picked on?

Hillary supporters have been called racist, elitist, old timers, deluded, establishment, old, uneducated, poor, uninformed, low info, ignorant... oh the list goes on. They see Obama supporters (Kossacks) looking down their noses at them. Whether you do it or not, whether you mean to or not, that's how they feel. As Keith Olberman would say, true or not, they see it.

We saw an opportunity to change the face of American politics. They saw an opportunity to finally put someone in office who would really fight for us. We're not that different. We want a fighter, too. They want a change agent, too. We want the same policies (mostly). We just saw different ways of reaching the same goals.

We saw many of the Clinton attacks on our candidate as racist or race baiting. We saw many of the Clinton attacks as crossing a line that ought not be crossed by a fellow Democrat. But just like we didn't see what they saw, they didn't see what we saw. Should it have been clear to them? Sometimes I think it should have been -- but I also know that what we didn't see, they thought should have been clear to us.

Our fellow Democrats who support Clinton didn't see what we saw. They saw a person who was just fighting for all of us, someone who was willing to do what it takes to get ordinary people back at the top of the agenda in Washington, DC. That's not what I saw in Hillary, but their perspective is not less legitimate than our perspective. We saw stubbornness, they saw strength.

We should agree to disagree on Hillary's tactics. In short, we should let it go -- both sides. I think wmtriallawyer is also correct that we should not swing the pendulum too far in the other direction -- being gracious does not mean we should capitulate. We do not have to bow to demands for monetary payoffs, veep considerations, and the like. We also should not stand idly by while Clinton makes her final (and maybe even most desperate) attacks on Obama. We should recognize the difference between campaigning against Clinton and attacking Clinton supporters.

I don't think that Hillary's supporters are racist. I don't think that many of them are the low info voters that the media makes them out to be. I think they've been around the political system, and they have given up on what they see as a softer approach. They're cynical, and they want a fighter, not a negotiator. Instead of beating them down and kicking them out of our tent (thus making them more cynical), let's open our arms and bring them into our tent.

Are all Clinton supporters good or good for the Democratic Party? Of course not. But not all Obama supporters are good or good for the Democratic Party either.

Obama supporters, don't let some bad Clinton apples turn you against all Clinton supporters. And Clinton supporters, don't let some bad Obama apples turn you against all Obama supporters. Most of us are good people who the same shared goals. And don't forget that even good Democrats might say some bad things in the heat of the primary (I know I've been guilty).

We know that the divisions are deep. Feelings have hardened. But we also have more in common than we have differences. Let us focus on our common goals and dreams for our country and the world. Let's focus on what our country will lose if John McCain becomes our president.

Obama supporters, if we cannot forgive the Clintons for the wrongs we perceive from them, let's try to set the Clintons aside for now. Focus on the race at hand -- the general election. Focus on our fellow democrats who share our dreams, our goals, our wishes for the future of our country and the world.

Have empathy. Remember how we would be feeling if Obama, the person we believe is the last best chance at getting this country back on track, had lost the nomination. That's exactly how many Clinton supporters are feeling right now. And for every grievance we feel, there is a grievance felt by Clinton supporters. True or not, we feel it. True or not, they feel it.

Obama supporters, I would like to ask you to post a positive comment today -- here or somewhere else, it doesn't matter -- post a comment that either says one nice thing about Clinton's supporters (do not just say that they're tenacious) or describes one goal that both sides have in common (don't just say defeating McCain). Be substantive. We truly are all on the same team.

Clinton supporters, I hope you'll keep an open mind about us, too. We'd really like to hear from you. I do hope that the divisions between us can be over, if not today, soon. Tell us what you believe it will take to heal the divides. I don't know how well your requests will be received, but I think it's time for us to start the discussion.

Tags: reconciliation, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, 2008, elections, president, primaries, Democrats (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 84 comments

  •  Tips for the reconciliation of old friends. (26+ / 0-)

    You might think we can't reconcile, that the divisions are too deep, the gulf too wide, but I'm here to say, Yes We Can.

    We were friends before this primary season started, and we'll be friends after this primary season is over -- whether it ends today, tomorrow, or next month.

    John McCain traded your $10 job for $5 and called it a bargain.

    by dawnt on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:47:29 PM PDT

    •  Awesome diary (5+ / 0-)

      And if I could recommend it ten times I would. There will no doubt be some who will pooh-pooh your diary, but ignore them--you're right. There are too many people online who have refused to acknowledge that both sides have been offensive at times, and who cast blame for divisions at only one candidate. Bill Clinton got mocked in 1992 when he said "I feel your pain," but in the end, it was his ability to empathize that got him elected, and if we can emulate that as activists, we'll be a lot better as a party for the effort.

      I want to die like my grandfather, peacefully in my sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

      by incertus on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:10:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Interesting that the MyDD cross-post was (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      moiv, Sychotic1

      really well-received, while it received a mixed response here. A couple of people at MyDD ventured over here to see how it was received and were disappointed at the results. I hope as the wounds heal that we can do a better job of welcoming most of the Clinton supporters back into the fold.

      John McCain traded your $10 job for $5 and called it a bargain.

      by dawnt on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:12:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  how many diaries re tents splits reconciliation (13+ / 0-)

    it's getting ridiculous.

    I'd say it'd be a good idea for Obama and Clinton supporters to give each other some room for a week or so.   First, she hasn't conceded.    Second- as is natural after a hard fought campaign, one side wants to be bitter and angry awhile, and one maybe wants to gloat a little.     No reason to FORCE reconciliation right away.

  •  I'd also suggest lay off the bitter and Wright (6+ / 0-)

    regurgitations.     How do we get people to stop talking about them?   Stop talking about them ourselves.    Everyone knows someone with a strong opinion about one of these things and where does it get us?   Makes us spin around in circles.

  •  From an outsider looking in (6+ / 0-)

    The vast majority of their policies are the same.  If Obama supporters don't see Clinton's many positives, their support of Obama mustn't go much deeper than his charm and charisma.  

    Despite the fact that the campaign got ugly by times, democrats were fortunate to have several candidates who any left/centrist party in the western world would be proud to have as leader.

    •  This was a good stock of candidates (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Sychotic1, dawnt

      I did take the attacks on Obama personally and I need to remember to approach this as if I am a candidate myself.  Are they approaching the voters the way that I would and are they taking up the issues I would stand for?

    •  The dictator and the democrat (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      housesella, dawnt, Exquisite

      can both have the same goals and beliefs, but the means to achieve them can be wildly different.

      One may simply lop off heads while the other convinces and persuades.

      There's still a major difference.

      Got a problem with my posts? Quit reading them. They're usually opinions, and I don't come here to get in arguments.

      by drbloodaxe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:24:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Very sensible (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    incertus, moiv, Sychotic1, dawnt

    There are also a lot of people like me who have only a mild preference between the two candidates, who see that they're both flawed and both far preferable to a McCain candidacy.

    I'm happy to support an Obama candidacy, but I'm genuinely worried about the kind of campaign he'll run-- too many nods to right-wing talking points. And I  think his Presidency will be very cautious. In the classical meaning of the term, he's a very conservative person.

    •  H demonstrated many more nods to the right wing (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dawnt, Exquisite

      and I think her Presidency would follow suit.

      but whatever- if we all had fully functioning crystal balls (and I don't mean the testicular kind) to tell us EXACTLY what will happen in the future, we'd probably be winning the Lottery every week.

  •  The first person is drawing conclusions on (11+ / 0-)

    what Obama said when he came out and said that he fumbled it and should have used other words. He wasn't trying to insult anybody. But as we know, Obama is held to a higher standard and everything he does is looked at under a microscope. I'm actually extremely offended by anyone who says that Obama's church practices a different kind of Christianity. It comes from someone who is not used to other ways of people praising God.

    I see nothing positive about ignorance. There is no reason on this earth for anyone to look his bitter comments and say that they were intended to tear people down.

    To err is human. To forgive, divine.

    by Highwind on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:52:28 PM PDT

  •  Thoughtful diary (6+ / 0-)

    The best today.

    As a HRC supporter, I've got to say Obama really rocked Idaho.  

    I've been a lonley Idaho Democrat for a long time, and I know that we all have to work together to elect Democrats and the top and downticket.  If you want to see what a one party state looks like, come to Idaho, or Utah.  It's not pretty.

    My dogs think I'm smart and pretty.

    by martydd on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:52:33 PM PDT

  •  I'm getting tired (6+ / 0-)

    of these calls for unity, reconciliation, blah blah blah let's all be friends.

    As mentioned, this race is NOT over yet. Calls for unity are premature at best.

    Secondly, online supporters are NOT indicative of supporters in general. The hate, bile and lies we tend to assiociate with the most rabid of Clinton supporters is representative of a FRACTIONAL portion of her actual supporters. Clearly very few of us will be holding grudges against Clinton supporters in general.

    However, for the smear merchants...

    Why in the name of God would I want to reconcile with people who have been so horribly dishonest? Why should I forgive liars and smear merchants with a shrug and "Oh well, look at it from their perspective"?

    Fuck 'em. They made their choice when they travelled down the road of lies and smears, when they abandoned reality in favor of fantasy, when they decided to pretend to be the victims of the very sort of smears and lies they gleefully passed along.

    I've got no reconciliation for those sorts. Just a middle finger and a hearty "Good riddance."

    I stand by my original analogy between the Joker and bin Laden and the Riddler and Hussein. -- Greasy Grant

    by TheBlaz on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:52:55 PM PDT

    •  I'm inclined to agree. (7+ / 0-)

      Too many calls for unity when it's obvious Clinton intends to remain on her current path.  Until that changes, nothing changes. The math has never been important to them and it's obvious that it's still not important.

      I have nothing personal against Clinton supporters in general, but a few have earned my enmity and I doubt very much that will change anytime soon. I don't associate the bad deeds of their candidate directly with them. And I don't use their bad deeds to influence my feelings towards their candidate.

      Insults have been flying between both sides for months. Both side feel aggrieved. Forgiveness is a two-way street and no candidate's supporters should be forced to go further than the other in seeking forgiveness when both are fairly equally guilty of spewing the bile. (Hey, myself included.)

      That said, there is a real disconnect here. This is a blog. What happens here and between other blogs pretty much stays here. We are not a monolith of the electorate.  In reality, we are a itsy bitsy piece of the whole. Our influence is constantly overrated and virtually non-existent on the electorate at large. Just because we spend hours here doesn't mean the rest of the world sees things as we do. For the most part they don't.

      As for the other voters out there upset by something Obama said or did -- it happens. No candidate is perfect and expecting me as a mere blogger or us as a blogging community to have any effect over that is asking a bit too much. Part of that itsy bitsy demographic.

      I'm not going to worry about the myriad concerns of all voters because it's not something I have any control over. People will either vote for a politician or they won't. If it's that big of a problem it's Obama's problem to solve. His campaign will either address the major problems or they won't. And yes, he will lose voters over things. But he will also gain voters. That's politics.

      News Pundits - The Dopplerless weathermen of our time. Jon Stewart

      by mentaldebris on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:20:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The juxtaposition of these two quotes (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Sychotic1, dawnt

      Why should I forgive liars and smear merchants with a shrug and "Oh well, look at it from their perspective"?

      Just a middle finger and a hearty "Good riddance."

      is really strange.  Physician, heal thyself.

  •  When in doubt, I always just talk about why (8+ / 0-)

    Obama inspires me, why I think he's different.  I come across a lot of people who aren't thinking too much about the race, or simply haven't heard a level-headed first hand testimonial from a real person why Obama is so great.

    I almost always hit the theme of authenticity, regardless of the person's cynicism.  Cynical people secretly want to be not cynical, many of them.  They may not appear to be affected by your comment, but many of them will be.

    We have six months.  This is a lifetime in politics. Refuse to vouch for the other guy's bad faith and simply state your own good faith, and you can even state how you personally intend to stay involved after an election to hold an Obama administration accountable by staying engaged, your hopes for this country, what this country is supposed to stand for, and can stand for again.  Common goals.

    That's how I try to talk to people.  Good diary, dawnt.

  •  I think that the tent is a pretty big one (11+ / 0-)

    but I have problems sharing it with people who are prepared to use race as a wedge issue.

    The lies, opportunism and hypocrisy are all forgivable but the race thing?

    Maybe it is just me.

    •  ditto (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, dawnt, Exquisite

      I'm 100% opposed to common ground with racists.  Rather than pandering to these people, we should be making it clear that they can either respect human diversity or fuck off.

      I was a green through the 90s due to Bill Clinton and the DLC cabal whoring the party out to Wall Street.  I've been anti-Clinton for a long-assed time.  It's not them, it's what they represent.  The Democratic Party has needed an enema for decades.  The fact that Obama wants to give it one is what's attracting so many new Democratic voters.  

      ---
      Fight the stupid! Boycott BREAKING diaries!

      by VelvetElvis on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:17:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do you really believe that all of Hillary's (5+ / 0-)

        supporters are racist?

        John McCain traded your $10 job for $5 and called it a bargain.

        by dawnt on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:18:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  not at all (5+ / 0-)

          but a lot of the people who would refuse to vote for Obama in the general are.  We need to accept that we're going to lose these people and that's OK because we don't want them.

          ---
          Fight the stupid! Boycott BREAKING diaries!

          by VelvetElvis on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:23:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree with that 100% n/t (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            trashablanca, Exquisite

            John McCain traded your $10 job for $5 and called it a bargain.

            by dawnt on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:25:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Vote for Obama (0+ / 0-)

            So according to you...if you are a Democrat..you MUST vote for Obama or you're racist? That's the stupidest comment I've ever heard...

            •  No, what VelvetElvis meant (0+ / 0-)

              was that some people are racist, and we should just expect to lose some people to that. He was answering "no" to my question where I asked the same thing as you, if he thought any dem not voting for Obama was racist.

              John McCain traded your $10 job for $5 and called it a bargain.

              by dawnt on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:13:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  it is so hard to take this seriously (0+ / 0-)

            Hillary has something upwards of 14,000,000 supporters.  And you are even suggesting that they are all, or mostly racist?  

            •  I think he's talking about a very small portion (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              dawnt

              I think most HRC supporters either think Obama isn't experienced enough or that HRC is more qualified.  These are perfectly respectable reasons, but they aren't really reasons to boycott Obama.  This is born out by evidence; about 2/3s of HRC voters are willing to vote Obama in the general, as I recall.  Out of the remaining 30 percent, women who refuse to vote for what they see has a misogynistic campaign I can disagree with but understand.  White people freaked out by Wright, Jewish people freaked out by Farrakhan, anyone who thinks Ayers is a actual problem; if they buy in enough to refuse to vote Obama over McCain, I'd argue that they are shallow or blind, but not racist.

              However, I've seen, on more than one primary, the exit polls divided up showing a significant--not huge, but significant, something like 15% if I remember right--pool of Clinton voters who considered race very important to their decision.  I'd need to see the question asked to make a real accusation, and some of those could be Limbaugh Democrats, but when I saw that tidbit I made a few choice comments about the "goddamn fucking racists" myself--especially considering that this was only the people who admitted it.

              "While there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free!" -Eugene V. Debs

              by leftneck on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:12:11 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Nope. (6+ / 0-)

          But some of them are and others have been pushing her to use the politics of racial divisiveness. Unfortunately for some, those words they wrote will exist in perpetuity. They won't be able to walk them back.

          But I think it's a very small percentage of her supporters and I think a percentage of that would never vote for her in November. But yes, racists do exist in the Democratic Party. It just took this divisive campaign to ferret them out. Same with the sexists.  

          News Pundits - The Dopplerless weathermen of our time. Jon Stewart

          by mentaldebris on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:27:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm all for ferretting out (4+ / 0-)

            the few bad apples.

            John McCain traded your $10 job for $5 and called it a bargain.

            by dawnt on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:29:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You know what... (0+ / 0-)

            If you -- The Obama Side -- couldn't interject "race" into every effing reason of his weakness...you'd be left with NOTHING TO SAY!!!

            He's weak with blue collar/working class whites/elderly women/catholics/etc.etc.etc....JUST DEAL WITH IT!!!

            Why does race have to be an issue?  It's YOU and YOUR SIDE that'a making race an issue...

            •  HRC's entire campagin strategy is to convince SDs (0+ / 0-)

              that the country is too racist to elect a black president.  You should, if anything, embrace the idea that there are Democrats who are too racist to vote for Barack; it's one of the few pro-Hillary arguments that might be based in reality.

              "While there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free!" -Eugene V. Debs

              by leftneck on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:18:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  i believe that some are insensitive (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          leftneck, SciVo, dawnt

          to how problematic the race-related incidents really are. Most of the comments I see from Clinton supporters are quite dismissive of the concerns people in the black community expressed. Some seemed to think that it was all for a greater good, so suck it up. Others just seemed it was a lot of hoopla over nothing. In general they seemed quite unable or unwilling to see these actions from the point of view of someone who might be dealing with the consequences of racial divisiveness far beyond the election.

          "I ain't so afraid of losing something that I ain't gonna try to have it." Zoe (Firefly)

          by geejay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:33:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I saw the same thing (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            geejay, leftneck, SciVo

            I actually had someone tell me that it was better to go through that in the primary and have Clinton as the nominee than to have Obama lose in November due to "real" racism. I don't think I'll ever understand that.

            John McCain traded your $10 job for $5 and called it a bargain.

            by dawnt on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:36:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  As I understand your comment... (0+ / 0-)

            ...this is what I take away from it:  close to 90% of blacks are supporting Obama...but he's also getting a healthy dose of white voters...so what's unclear about which side is using "the race issue" to their advantage?  Hint:  Who is ahead?

          •  this is very difficult, because (0+ / 0-)

            Obama is, in a literal sense, African American.  He can talk about it--and did, brilliantly, in his speech--but no one else can mention it.  Any mention at all, no matter for what purpose, is construed as racism.  How does that forward his candidacy or the crucially important issue of race in America?  Because a person has some issue with Obama,  whatever it is, or prefers HIllary, for whatever reason, is no excuse to automatically attack that person as racist.  How do we ever, as a nation, get beyond this problem?

            •  for what it's worth, I think the most useless (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              SottoVoce, dawnt

              word in any discussion of race is the word "racist". It pretty much shuts down discussion and sends the accused into full denial. any meaningful dialog is completely and thoroughly derailed.

              Unfortunately meaningful dialog between the races (not just shallow glad-handing and soothing platitudes, but discussion that addresses uncomfortable issues) has not taken place in such a long time that people are not very fluent.

              Miscues, miscommunication and mistakes are inevitable. I would hope people would bring more good will and tolerance to the discussion. But in a political environment where people focus on "gotcha" moments, race became another exploitable issue.

              Personally, I don't think any of the people who have tried to exploit race for political gain are themselves racists. I think many of them are good democrats, true liberals and have done things that helped Blacks gain access to influence and power in the government. I do not deny this. I simply believe that good people, good liberals, good open-minded folks of every race and ethnicity can say and do things that exploit other people's fears.

              "I ain't so afraid of losing something that I ain't gonna try to have it." Zoe (Firefly)

              by geejay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:12:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  very, very well put, geejay (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                geejay

                But in a political environment where people focus on "gotcha" moments, race became another exploitable issue

                 The indiscriminate accusations of racism that have been flying around do not help further Obama's campaign or the transcendence of race as an issue.

                And a double rec, if I could, for being a Firefly fan.  I gotta say, I also watched Waitress a few dozen times, just to get another helping of Mal.

    •  I'd say the Republican tent... (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Sychotic1, dconrad, SciVo, dawnt, Exquisite

      ...is shrinking, actually.

      Any cause that defines itself as the opposite of another cause can be problematic once that cause prevails, but one thing that really concerns me is that many Obama supporters say they'd never vote for Clinton, and a number of Clinton supporters said they'd never vote for Obama.

      In my mind there's one goal right now, and that's to ensure McCain (and whoever the "real president" will be in McCain's ticket, 'cause McCain will be the "front man" nothing more, guaranteed) do not get the white house.

      I'm not impressed by any supporter of either camp who says they would rather vote for McCain. For once I'm a party loyalist, I honestly believe either Dem candidate is miles above McCain by almost any standard.

      (-4.88, -3.74) Treat everyone as they deserve - and who doesn't deserve a whipping?! -Hamlet 2:2

      by pakaal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:41:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Did Hillary concede while I was napping? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    trashablanca
  •  Q: how many bloggers does it take to screw in a (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1, elkhunter, mouser68

    lightbulb?

    Answer:   Did the lights go out?   I've been on-line so long I didn't notice.

  •  What about Nader supporters? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    pakaal, dawnt

    Had to say it. =-)

    Politicians cannot be depended upon to act in the interests of the public in the absence of collective pressure.

    by Reframing the Debate on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:08:16 PM PDT

  •  'His feelings are legitimate' (8+ / 0-)

    What exactly makes feelings 'legitimate'?

    If I mishear or misunderstand someone and think they called me some horrible epithet, are my feelings 'legitimate' even though they called me no such thing?

    While I think you can make the case that 'had they called me whatever it was' my feelings would be legitimate, I think it's pushing it to say my feelings are 'legitimate' when I'm the one with a hearing problem.

    Likewise a comprehension problem.  Obama made perfectly clear in his Charlie Rose interview what he meant by bitter and clinging, and it was not what the media and his opponents puffed it into.  People who cling to ignorance out of a desire to think the worst of someone have only themselves to blame, and it does not 'legitimize' their feelings.

    I hope you took time to explain to them why they were misinterpreting his words in the worst way possible, and falling for Republican propaganda.

    Got a problem with my posts? Quit reading them. They're usually opinions, and I don't come here to get in arguments.

    by drbloodaxe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:20:44 PM PDT

    •  Oh, I agree that he misinterprets (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Sychotic1, geejay

      but that doesn't change how he feels. He's been called every name in the book for his work on immigration reform, and he feels the way he feels. There is absolutely nothing I can say that will, in his mind, excuse what Obama said. He says everyone is just making excuses for Obama. I disagree with him, but there's no changing his mind. He is still planning to vote for Obama though.

      John McCain traded your $10 job for $5 and called it a bargain.

      by dawnt on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:23:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I know you're a HUGE Obama fan... (0+ / 0-)

      But seriously, don't kid yourself about the "bitter" comment.  He knew what he said, and he meant what he said!

      As Rev Wright clearly explained (this refers to Obama on Charlie Rose):  Obama is a politician, and he has to say what a politician has to say to win...

      •  Actually (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        dawnt

        As I've said repeatedly, I'll be every bit as critical of Obama when he's in office - it's our duty as citizens to keep our politicians on their toes.

        And I'm not 'kidding' myself about the bitter comment, I just fully agree with it.  And the Charlie Rose interview was 3 or 4 years back, it wasn't AFTER the comments were used against him recently.

        Got a problem with my posts? Quit reading them. They're usually opinions, and I don't come here to get in arguments.

        by drbloodaxe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:49:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Unity after concession not before. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    trashablanca, dawnt, Exquisite

    And we are not paying off her debt.

    McCain goes through life looking backwards. Explains why he crashed five planes.

    by organicdemocrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:22:46 PM PDT

    •  I know my diary is really long (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      pakaal, dconrad

      but perhaps you missed this part:

      I think wmtriallawyer is also correct that we should not swing the pendulum too far in the other direction -- being gracious does not mean we should capitulate. We do not have to bow to demands for monetary payoffs, veep considerations, and the like. We also should not stand idly by while Clinton makes her final (and maybe even most desperate) attacks on Obama. We should recognize the difference between campaigning against Clinton and attacking Clinton supporters.

      John McCain traded your $10 job for $5 and called it a bargain.

      by dawnt on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:24:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Forgive...in time...forget...never (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dawnt, Exquisite

    Sorry but given the deplorable conduct of the Clinton campaign as well as the conduct of some of her supporters I will have a hard time forgiving them for a while. I will never forget, however. In fact if it were Hillary or some of her supporters and me walking down the street I'd make sure they were walking in front of me just so they couldn't shiv me in the back.

    Sarcasm: It beats killing people...

    by Dreggas on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:24:50 PM PDT

    •  I understand those feelings (0+ / 0-)

      I have them sometimes too. I'm calling for unity, but I'm still going through the process of forgiveness myself. It's like that time when I was 10 and my brother tripped me. I accepted his apology and played games with him later, but for weeks I stayed out of arm's length, just to be safe.

      John McCain traded your $10 job for $5 and called it a bargain.

      by dawnt on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:27:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Translation (0+ / 0-)

      What you will never forget is that Hillary EXPOSED Obama's weakness as a candidate. The "deplorable conduct" that you throw around is just a dumb excuse because you're SO MAD that she called him out with certain segments of the Democratic voters.

      You wanted the appearance that he is Supermaan...and she EXPOSED him as just Clark Kent...and now you're (and your team) are throwing a temper tantrum...

  •  Not me. I'm taking today and maybe even (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    pakaal, dawnt, Exquisite

    tomorrow to enjoy what I've waited for months for.  I'll shake off this resentment for sure now that I know it's not going to be permanent, but I'm not about to lie and say something positive when I don't feel that way.

    Maybe tomorrow I will.


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:27:24 PM PDT

  •  Now?? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dawnt

    Now that the pundits have called the nomination for Obama and some Clinton supporters are calling for Hillary to withdraw

    Hasn't this been going on for months?

  •  i want to be friends (0+ / 0-)

    with the blue hairs and the red hats?  I think not :P

    "Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom" - Barack Obama

    by pacified on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:45:35 PM PDT

  •  My very best friend (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1, dconrad, dawnt

    is Hillary supporter. She cannot even articulate why she doesn't like Obama but in the few times we've talked about it, I can feel her apprehension.  We have had political conversations but we stick to issues, not people.  There is no election worth ruining a friendship over, particularly since we live in Iowa and the whole thing has been out of our hands for quite some time now.  I know she will support Obama in the general because she is a Democrat, but right now nerves are a little raw.  

    We have a job to do.  Getting the nomination is only the beginning.  We haven't got time to gloat and I think after a time, they will realize that they don't have time to sulk.  The adversary is out there with a free pass to say and do any outrageous thing without rebuttal.  It's time to get busy - all of us!

    -7.62, -7.28 "We told the truth. We obeyed the law. We kept the peace." - Walter Mondale

    by luckylizard on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:05:26 PM PDT

  •  It's too late (0+ / 0-)

    I don't think too many Hillary supporters (me included) will be convinced to jump aboard Obama Express...the best many of us can do is sit the election out...

    •  please, please don't sit out the election (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dconrad, dawnt

      John McCain just said he's committed to putting conservative judges on the bench.  This alone will make the country pay long beyond his one term in office.
      The damage would be incalculable.  Think about it long and hard before you sit out the election.  Don't mind the badmouths around here...they aren't the candidate.  They actually run contrary to his message.  Don't let them drive you away.

  •  As someone who is neither's supporter, (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    moiv, dawnt

    homophobia is what pisses me off.  Royally.

    And there's been enough homophobia in this campaign to gag a goat.  And both Clinton AND Obama deserve to lose on account of just that.

    So, no, I'm not "bitter" about Obama winning.  I just see someone who is far more centrist than he needs to be to win, and that might very well hurt him in the general.  This is not a time to reach out to Republicans.  It's a time to reach out to Democrats, to call out the base, and crush the Republicans.

    This is a base election.  It's not about who is loyal to whom .. it's about constituencies.  And if that lesson is not learned, then yes, we might see the disaster of a McCain in the White House.

    The opposite of war is not peace, it's creation - Jonathan Larson (-6.62, -6.26)

    by AndyS In Colorado on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:15:37 PM PDT

  •  If only... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1, dawnt

    Obama said religion is a crutch, that god isn't real, just a crutch for people to cling to. He said religion is like a rag doll or a blanket.

    Just because it's true doesn't mean that Obama said it.  I wish the day would come when this can be said so baldly.

    Hilary was never higher than my 4th choice. (behind Edwards, Dodd, and Obama)  Her rhetoric has brought into question just how deeply she believes in Democratic principles.  At this point, I have to trust her record far more than her mouth.

    Clinton supporters have stood with us in grassroots fights like FISA.

    -7.75 -4.67

    "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

    by Odysseus on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:41:04 PM PDT

  •  Thank you dawnt (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dconrad, SottoVoce, dawnt

    I know that even the best reasoned diaries are going to fall on some deaf ears, but I think that the vast majority of both sides of the primary battle are intelligent, reasoning people.  I don't think anyone who delves deeply into Democratic politics has come out of this without some bumps and bruises, some anger and resentment for wrongs both real and perceived.

    I do think that now is the time to take a step back, examine the bigger picture, think with our heads instead of our hearts for a bit and do what is right, because if I remember correctly the whole point of this blog is to get Democrats elected

    Get Democrats Elected

    one more time

    Get Democrats Elected

    There are bagels in the fridge

    by Sychotic1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:30:30 PM PDT

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