How this girl is handled will determine Nov. race

I'm talking about the one in pink.

(Image from Hillary's Flickr photo stream)

And that means showing our kids how to be gracious winners and losers.

More Below the fold..

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Before I go any further though:

I posted a diary Tuesday morning that I knew might be lost in the "results frenzy" Please give it another look HERE   I you just give even $2 for a woman who, in no small way, laid the ground work for our victory in Allen County IN .  
I think on any other day it might have made the rec list.
Thanks  
Mike

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As I was canvassing in Indiana, I came across a woman in her thirties who was a single mom living in an duplex type condo.  
When I asked her who she was voting for she said
"That's up to my 9 year old."  
Without missing a beat I said
"Awwl right! bring her out here and let me work on her!"
She laughed before reporting she was out riding her bike, and we continued the conversation something like this:

Woman: "I think I'm leaning toward him, but I'm taking her down there as sort of a civics lesson, and It would break her heart if I voted Obama."

Me:  "Well engaging in the process is really the most important thing, so that's great you're taking her down."

Woman:  "Yeah all the kids are really into this election they are talking about it at school and the kids are arguing taking sides. They have a big emotional investment in this election."

Me:  "I know, it's going to be historic any way it goes, and by the way.. She will have my support in November if she's the nominee.  There's too much at stake, and IMO I think we need to get on to defeating McCain sooner rather than later."

Woman:  "I hear ya.  I think most people feel that way, but there's a lot of little girls out there that are going to be heart broken.  I really like the guy, so I'll get over it, but a lot of people are going to feel like he denied them their dream....  I hope he can get those folks motivated come November."

(another Pic from Hillary's Flickr site)
We continued our friendly conversation about issues such as energy policy and the war for few minutes until her nine year old rolled up on her bike.

Me:  "Hi there!"

Girl : "Hello" she said a bit sheepishly looking at my clip board.

Me:   "I hear you're going to vote tomorrow."

Girl:  "yup"

Mother:  "He's from Barack Obama"

Girl:   "oh.." She said curling her lip.

Mother:  "She's been waiting for the Hillary people to come by, We got to see her at Head River park when she stopped here last week."

Me  :  "Cool, you got to see Senator Clinton?"

Girl : "yup"

Me :  "Guess I can't convince you to Vote for Senator Obama then huh?"

Girl   "Nope"

Me :    "How bout in November..  If he wins I mean?"

Girl:    "i-dun-know"

Mother :   "We'll vote for him."

At this point the girl shot her mother a confused glare, that told me she was unprepared for that reality, but I certainly was not going to be the one to break it to her.  

I took my leave graciously but I imagine for the first time that girl and her mother actually talked seriously about the prospect of Hillary Loosing.    To other kids her concession is going to come as a complete surprise.  

Our children will reflect our actions if the winners become braggarts and the losers are sour and un-accepting, those attitudes will be reflected in the school yard.  Let's prepare our kids for this win/loss  by teaching them how to be gracious and conciliatory in competition.  

Hillary Supporters:
Continue to fight if you like.  However, the fact remains this competition was planned and executed better by Senator Obama, and in a competition that's all that matters.   He will in all likely hood win.  And it will be fair and square.  There is nothing to complain about.

Barack Supporters:
Take a step back out of the face of Hillary folks and think about the emotional investment they put in.   Think about these little girls who dreamed of a Woman president. Celebrate, but do it with grace, and talk to your kids about how to reach out to Hillary supporters and congratulate them on a very close race.

After all until there is a Democrat with his or her hand on that bible taking the oath....
none of us has won anything.

•  Tips for female president in the near future.

  by mtosner on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:59:28 PM PDT

  •  Indeed but think about the sheer time-line

    involved.

    If Obama is the nominee, and IF he does not chose a female running mate, and IF he/they win two terms and that running mater is the next Dem prez contender we are already talking 12 years min if the Reps don't run a lady.

    I think this is the basis for a lot of the older women wanting to vote for Clinton because with those time lines they are going to start passing away, and many of them are the ones that took it on the chin for Women's rights, and a non Clinton win here makes it a lot less likely for them to ever see a woman prez.

    I wish they had a better candidate to vote for, I think Clinton is a poor feminist candidate for a number of reasons, but I understand the frustration.

    by edgeways on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:09:48 PM PDT

    •  No, it's not so much about the time-line, it's

      more about the need for a qualified leader NOW, who should be a Democrat.

      That the entire fracking planet gets to display its misogyny in front of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Ceiling Cat and all the gods is apparently icing on the cake for some party operatives.

      It will get us a third Bush term.

      Twelve years is not too long to wait. Five months is. I don't believe Barack Hussein Obama, who has called Republicans the party of ideas, who has turned his back on universal health care, who has walked away from the restoration of our constitution, who has refused to consider pursuing charges against the current administration, and whose strategy for getting my vote is to assume that he can have it so nobody calls me a racist when he doesn't get it flat sucks, is a Democrat.

      Her most certainly is not a Democrat in the same way as John Edwards, Jack or Bobby Kennedy, or Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

      In this time when we really, truly need someone of that caliber, need Democratic leadership whose roots run deep in the working class and who understand the need for good jobs, good schools, working infrastructure, health care and constitutional protections as well as economic strategies,
      if we let ourselves be hoodwinked into accepting some nebulous notion of "unity," we will be the poorer for it long before 12 years down the road.

      by BlackSheep1 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:26:55 PM PDT

      •  Look, I am not disagreeing with you

        just pointing out what I think is a motivation for some of Clinton's core, and if you want to slam them so be it, but as much as I disagree with their choice I can not.

        by edgeways on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:32:14 PM PDT

        •  what did you read? because I didn't slam

          Hillary or her base.

          by BlackSheep1 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:46:52 PM PDT

          •  Yes, you are right. I am sorry I had

            multiple tabs open.

            In speaking more to your post then I did (again sorry), suffice to say I disagree with you on a number of points in regards to Mrs Clinton's ability, commitment  and character. But, I've a feeling it'll just dissolve into the never ending rehashing of our respective beliefs and talking points.

            A bit more, I think both candidates are taking the other's bases for granted in a GE race, certainly Obama needs the majority of Clinton supporters to win, and likewise so does she. You imply you have been called a racist, I am sorry, I don't know you but most likely you are not and as such you should not be called a racist. In counterpoint I have been called, to my face, a sexist and have had it implied by my mother as well because I am male and do not support Clinton. I do not think I am sexist, I have advocated for any number of female candidates and am well aware and have sympathy for much of feminist philosophy, to the point I self identify as a feminist, but just as you not supporting "the black candidate" does not make you racist, so too does my not supporting "the female candidate" a sexist.

            I hope in the coming months you are able to make peace with the outcome of the primary, and I wish you well.

            by edgeways on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:05:14 PM PDT

          •  yeah, dipshit actually slammed that hussein fella

            except for that strange

            "Her most certainly is not...

            Dunno.  Maybe anti-hussein dipshit is slamming both?
            Not worth my time to figure Black Hussein Sheep1's stuff out.  Wow.

            by JVolvo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:11:12 PM PDT

            •  Typos happen ...

              but I don't usually call people names about 'em.

              This said -- you should maybe stop and realize you're not winning your candidate any friends with tactics like this.

              Friends your candidate might need come November, that is.

              by BlackSheep1 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:44:18 PM PDT

              •  Really? Hussein. You went for Hussein.

                1- dipshit was for your use of Limbaugh/Faux News talking point.  Feel good to parrot Rush and Hannity?  Jeebus.

                2- so you are another of the 'someone was mean to me/"my" candidate on the internet (aka calling bullshit on your RW talking point), so I'm gonna..."

                What.The.Fuck.Ever.  

                3- with "friends" like you, our country is fucked.

                4- is that the Tom DeLay style of winning friends and influencing people? Or more of a Soprano-like threat?  Charming.  Why are you on a progressive blog?

                5- gotta admit, "Her" was an interesting typo.  Feeling conflicted about supporting Mrs. SniperFire/Only Some States Count/Vote For Me: I'm White?

                by JVolvo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:40:47 AM PDT

                •  you're a jerk, and you've got your

                  head up and locked in a dark and smelly place.

                  but that's okay.

                  at least your emanations aren't polluting my air.

                  by BlackSheep1 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:39:12 PM PDT

                  •  what is your problem? You played the Fox card.

                    You went to Hannity/Limbaugh land.
                    I responded with vulgar vigor.
                    You then played the "careful or I might just vote McSame" card.
                    I pointed out how your not-so-subtle McSame threat was crap.
                    And I'm the jerk?
                    Riiiiiiight.

                    Yes I can be a snarky bastard.  I do my best to support it with data or logic.  And humor when possible, bad language when I'm pissed.

                    Since you are an Edwards Democrat (me, too), how can you play "Hussein" 1) with a straight face and 2) be surprised when someone here calls you on it?  

                    Let's pull together and knock Mr 100 Years in Iraq on his ass!

                    by JVolvo on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:07:57 PM PDT

                    •  No -- I mentioned the full facts, and you

                      responded with invective.

                      So you can knock Mr. 100 years in Iraq on his ass with your beloved Messiah Obama's help, or not.

                      I'm done with you.

                      by BlackSheep1 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:15:36 PM PDT

    •  Support the up-and-comers

      It's not like after hillary there will never be any more women interested in high office.

      by The Dead Man on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:45:36 PM PDT

    •  International perspective

      There are lots of women presidents and prime ministers -- in countries like Chile, Argentina, and Germany.  These are countries that have more respect for women than the USA.  Many of our policies have more in common with the Arab world than Europe.

      An important step is to correct the gross underrepresentation of women in Congress.  USA is way behind the rest of the world on this.

      It's very sad that someone like Hillary feels she has to run by proving she's tougher than a man.

      It's also very sad that Michelle Bachelet, the President of Chile, would have been a non-starter in the USA because she's separated from her husband and is agnostic.

      USA has a long way to go.

      by Caelian on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:11:47 PM PDT

•  Oh, I see...so, it's ok if that little girl

  grows up in a world knowing that it's ok to use racial tensions to drum up votes.

  If that little girl were my daughter, I would sit her down and tell her that Hillary is a very bad person and we don't want to have a leader that does such things.

  by David Kroning on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:01:39 PM PDT

  •  I'd rather tell her that she should be

    the best person she can be, and that she could grow up to be president.  I'd tell her that Hillary lost because she did some things that people didn't like - not because she's a woman.

    by lineatus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:09:19 PM PDT

    •  Fair enough...but did you notice...

      I never mentioned anything about gender in my comment.

      by David Kroning on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:10:44 PM PDT

      •  I did, and appreciate it.

        by lineatus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:27:41 PM PDT

      •  Telling a child HRC is a "bad person"...

        ...doesn't grant the child an adult perspective.
        Stop this.

        Sen.Obama is coming to the nomination in measured strides. He is to be our Democratic candidate. Sen. Clinton isn't leaving the party, nor are millions of Clinton, Edwards, Dodd, Biden, Kucinich, Richardson, and Gravel supporters. They are, virtually all, to be Obama supporters in November. There is one thing that the "low information" voter (which may be sympathetically seen as a majority of 'em) gets right: Hillary is one of us as far as the average voter is concerned.

        We need to stop wasting campaign energy on Clinton bashing, or even on gloating over the bad behavior of others towards her. There is not time to indulge in this pettiness. Spending time at such crap weakens Team Obama for the general election. Underestimate the GOP at the world's peril. Winning in November is only the next step. There's much more to fix in our world that the US has broken or ignored, and we need us all to do it.

        by labradog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:31:11 PM PDT

        •  Don't tell me what to do with my kids...

          buzz off.

          by David Kroning on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:34:38 PM PDT

          •  Sorry, Bub.

            Anything you do in public, or describe doing in a public forum, is up for scrutiny. Here, it's all about the politics.

            Now, focus, and do your country right. Propagandizing someone who can't vote this year, against a candidate who apparently isn't going to be in the race this November, is pretty much the definition of politically unproductive in urgent times like these.

            by labradog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:43:03 PM PDT

            •  My name's not "bub" either...

              by David Kroning on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:44:22 PM PDT

            •  Labradog, you've said the right thing.

              David can't post his private dealings in a public forum, and for a public purpose (of influencing others), and not expect to be criticized if someone doesn't agree.  I sure don't agree.

              by Rich in PA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:19:24 PM PDT

    •  of course. Shit, I respected Sen Clinton until

      Super Tuesday's aftermath.  
      I was post-Edwards undecided.  I even blasted away against the Schuster "pimping out Chelsea" crap and the 'oh, it's ok, kids use that term' Utter Bullshit posted here.

      Sen Clinton's tactics and arrogance turned me off.
      In contrast, Sen Obama was cool and upliting - always even keel.

      Sen Clinton lost this campaign, losing more delegates, states, caucuses, popular votes, fund-raising, snipertales, etc.

      None of it had to do with gender.  Tactics and attitude, imo.

      And yes, tell your daughter to aspire to greatness, to follow in Sen Clinton's metaphorical footsteps - being the best she can be!

      by JVolvo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:19:22 PM PDT

  •  But she's a woman!!!

    Aren't you paying attention?  

    It's important that we have a lower bar for her because, well, you know.  

    That's the lame thing behind all of this.  Hillary takes advantage of what feminists accomplish but she herself is terrible for the cause.

    As a man with a wife on a PHD path and two young daughters (I'm a stay at home, diaper changing machine) I feel like I'm pretty thoroughly a part of a feminist world.  And I want to be.  My wife's peers are professors and grad students.  My peers at the moment tend to be other stay at home parents, mostly women.  

    Personally, I would have loved for my daughters to come of age and into the knowledge of what a president is by pointing to a woman and saying, "That's a President."  But that's not going to blind me for one second to any of Hillary's sleazy politics.  That would be dishonoring women and what I believe in to do that.  

    I really hope that Hillary's run has brought us closer to a woman running being a 'normal' thing.  I really hope we get some great women running for president in the next and every election.  If Hillary did anything, that was it.  But her run, in and of itself, has become a disgrace.  

    by Sun dog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:10:56 PM PDT

    •  Unfortunately, she's not been a good role model..

      for women.  Especially when she tries to pretend that women still live in the 1950s.

      She's done a great disservice to women, and blacks; to us all.

      by David Kroning on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:15:31 PM PDT

      •  Yeah, my wife gets pretty insulted by a lot of it

        Which is a shame because when Bill and Hillary first came to town together and we went and saw them, she found it very exciting.  She had this same sense that the diarist speaks of.  She was very excited at the prospect of a woman president.  I had been months before but by that point I had already started to sense the problems with Hillary's run.  After a short while into the campaign (this was the Iowa campaign) my wife was firmly in Obama's camp too.  

        The disappointment wasn't that Hillary wasn't going to win.  It was disappointing that a woman wasn't going to be president this time.  But they're separate things.  Mourning the lack of women presidents isn't the same thing as mourning Hillary's loss.  Hillary's loss is a good thing.  

        by Sun dog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:34:49 PM PDT

        •  I hear ya...One day I hope we have someone like

          Eleanor Roosevelt.  

          by David Kroning on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:42:38 PM PDT

      •  My stock answer to any man who says that...

        ...Hillary Clinton is a bad role model for women is "Fuck off."  That's not even a discussion for you to be  part of.

        by Rich in PA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:17:25 PM PDT

        •  Was that snark?

          Are you serious Rich?

          by Sun dog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:27:12 PM PDT

        •  Ok, she is bad role model for ethical Dems. nt

          by crankyinNYC on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:43:52 PM PDT

    •  High five fellow stay at home dad! n/t

      by NMDad on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:22:19 PM PDT

      •  High five back at ya

        and I'm off for a while for pj's and story reading time now.  

        The networks started soap operas for stay at home moms.  DK is my soap opera.   Unfortunately, it's on all day!  

        by Sun dog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:37:11 PM PDT

  •  David, seriously, if you think Hillary is a "very

    bad person and we don't want to have a leader that does such things," then, if you'll pardon my French, what the fuck are you going to tell her about one who commits genocide? I'm just curious if maybe some folks on this site are starting to feel just a teensy bit silly over the ability of a website to turn a New York Democratic Senator and former first lady to the most successful president of the last 60 years into some kind of caricature of a Night Rider.

    by steve davis on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:21:13 PM PDT

    •  Huh? n/t

      by NMDad on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:23:28 PM PDT

    •  Ok, she can play with anyone but Hitler's kids...

      how's that?

      What rhymes with "hut?"

      by David Kroning on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:29:25 PM PDT

    •  Oh Steve, get with the program!

      Hillary is responsible for the genocides in Rwanda and Bosnia...something about her health care plan, I think.  I can't remember the details, but I read it here so it must be true.

      by Rich in PA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:15:36 PM PDT

    •  Most successful president in the last 60 years?

      Better than post-WW2 with the Marshall Plan? Better than economic expansion under Eisenhower and Kennedy?

      LOL. If the lying scumbag had kept away from that intern ( a firing offense for any corporate CEO) we would have President Gore in his second term and not a disaster in Iraq. Really, please remove the rose colored glasses.

      by crankyinNYC on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:47:11 PM PDT

  •  I tell my daughter that every day.

    by Zacapoet on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:13:46 PM PDT

•  I love this diary...

  (and contrary to another comment) I think it is very important to embrace the excitement and passion of all of our young voters - even if we feel they are misguided.

  Rec'd.  I have two daughters (18 and 12) and they are both Obama maniacs.  I can't imagine how people can support Hillary, but they do and that has to be respected.

  by sick of it all on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:06:02 PM PDT

•  Little girls should look at it this way

  they can still grow up to be the first female president!!!

  by NMDad on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:08:22 PM PDT

  •  I hope we have a good

    Female candidate sooner then that

    by edgeways on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:10:55 PM PDT

    •  You had one, but you didn't want her.

      My daughter's a couple of years away from caring, but I'd tell her the truth.  It won't look like anything I'm reading here!

      by Rich in PA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:14:00 PM PDT

  •  I want my daughter to be the second female prez

    She's too young for us to wait that long.

    by Sun dog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:12:40 PM PDT

•  We can tell our daughters

  that in November, they will still have the chance to vote for a candidate who's also experienced a lot of discrimination in his life.  He'll understand their feelings.  He's also the father a two daughters himself and that's one reason I'm sure he'll do whatever he can  to make sure that everyone's daughters deserve every possible opportunity.

  by tjb22 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:22:44 PM PDT

  •  I tried that - they couldn't grok it

    Couldn't bring myself to explain that skin color actually does matter in a lot of ways.

    So I went with: "you're right honey, he is brown.  No I've never actually seen an all black person.  People just say that to describe people with brown skin - no I don't know why.  And yes he's a man.  But no, he's not just like President Bush - they have different ideas about things.  Yes, ok, you're right.  Hillary would be the first woman president and Mr. Obama would be just another man president - but he's a good man"

    Gotta say, it makes me proud.  At their age, I'd heard all about it from my grandfather who was still shocked that they let "those people" in "his Democratic party."  And yes, he was a core party organizer.

    by jello5929 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:57:43 PM PDT

•  just remember hillary's BS..

  when the little girl asks, "Mommy, why do black people have such a distrust for older white women?"

  by JackieandFritz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:23:55 PM PDT

  •  That explains why...

    ...I see young guys in lowriding jeans and Lakers jackets nervously cross the street and avert their eyes when they think they might encounter a couple of chubby, blue-haired women in sweat suits and Hush Puppies.

    by labradog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:35:56 PM PDT

•  Wow, this is something I hadn't really thought

  through...

  I am a Boomer that was just 10 years old when JFK won the election...

  I remember voting for him in my fifth grade classroom (he lost btw, gotta love Appalachia), but of course won the 'real' election and I can well remember my parents elation and excitement..

  I sincerely hope these young women remain involved and keep up the good fight to elect a truly worthy woman as Prez......

  by AntKat on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:26:14 PM PDT

•  It's a tough one for the girls

  My girls are 5 and 7.  The older one knows that I support Obama and my wife supports Hillary.

  Really hard to explain why I don't support her due to her votes on Iraq and Iran.  They get all confused and think that she is shooting people with a gun.  Then my wife gets angry.

  Ultimately they simplified it to: "boys want boy presidents and girls want girl presidents - we need our own country"

  Doh!

  by jello5929 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:42:29 PM PDT

  •  Smart ones, those girls.

    Not to make it December/January all over again around here, but the dogged refusal to discuss gender as a factor in this election is really something.  

    by Rich in PA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:12:11 PM PDT

•  It makes me sad..

  ..that so many of Hillary's supporters are much, much better people than she is.

  by salsa0000 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:10:46 PM PDT

  •  the list of people worse than HRC at this point

    is pretty short.  she's a miserable human being.

    by unruli on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:22:17 PM PDT