Working the "dark side"

Remember recently Dick Cheney joked about his wife saying that portraying him as Darth Vader humanized him?  If it humanized him, it was just barely, and I suppose that this comment going back to September 16, 2001 introduced us to the real "Cheney"...

On September 16, 2001, Vice-President Richard Cheney appeared on "Meet the Press", in an interview you can read from the web pages of the White House itself...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/...

I will offer below, if you follow me, a few snippets of that interview, where we see the "Darth Vader" of Dick Cheney coming into the light...we should have been warned right then and there, but I suppose we were all in shock, I know I was, by the tragic events of 9/11...

Here is some of the q/a:

MR. RUSSERT: When Osama bin Laden took responsibility for blowing up the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, U.S. embassies, several hundred died, the United States launched 60 tomahawk missiles into his training sites in Afghanistan. It only emboldened him. It only inspired him and seemed even to increase his recruitment. Is it safe to say that that kind of response is not something we're considering, in that kind of minute magnitude?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: I'm going to be careful here, Tim, because I--clearly it would be inappropriate for me to talk about operational matters, specific options or the kinds of activities we might undertake going forward. We do, indeed, though, have, obviously, the world's finest military. They've got a broad range of capabilities. And they may well be given missions in connection with this overall task and strategy.

We also have to work, though, sort of the dark side, if you will. We've got to spend time in the shadows in the intelligence world. A lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly, without any discussion, using sources and methods that are available to our intelligence agencies, if we're going to be successful. That's the world these folks operate in, and so it's going to be vital for us to use any means at our disposal, basically, to achieve our objective.

MR. RUSSERT: There have been restrictions placed on the United States intelligence gathering, reluctance to use unsavory characters, those who violated human rights, to assist in intelligence gathering. Will we lift some of those restrictions?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: Oh, I think so. I think the--one of the by-products, if you will, of this tragic set of circumstances is that we'll see a very thorough sort of reassessment of how we operate and the kinds of people we deal with. There's--if you're going to deal only with sort of officially approved, certified good guys, you're not going to find out what the bad guys are doing. You need to be able to penetrate these organizations. You need to have on the payroll some very unsavory characters if, in fact, you're going to be able to learn all that needs to be learned in order to forestall these kinds of activities. It is a mean, nasty, dangerous dirty business out there, and we have to operate in that arena. I'm convinced we can do it; we can do it successfully. But we need to make certain that we have not tied the hands, if you will, of our intelligence communities in terms of accomplishing their mission.

All emphasis mine...

Reading this interview transcript now, almost 7 years later, I understand that Cheney was already telling us, on a nationally televised news program, one aired on a Sunday mourning when those of us politically in tune are typically tuned in...and that, at that time, not many of us were really listening to Dick Cheney.  

What he essentially said in this interview is that we would engage in torture.  What he essentially said in this interview is that the USA was going to rely upon international sources such as the latter outed and totally bullchit revelations of intelligence gathering in the form of "Curveball".  It becomes more clear that Dick Cheney and the Bush administration already had it mapped out on September 16, 2001.  We really didn't need any "books" to later describe the activities of the White House, it was all there for us; but hindsight is always better.

Now, on to torture, rendition, and international law.  From the pages of FindLaw and their Legal Commentary pages, I will offer just a few snippets that take this "story" i.e. reality further...

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/...

In the months and years that followed, the public got occasional glimpses of Cheney's shadowy, no-holds-barred world. Even though, as Cheney promised, that world was shrouded in secrecy, journalists and human rights activists sometimes managed to see into it.

Maher Arar, a Canadian-Syrian telecommunications engineer, gave the public a detailed picture of that world in November 2003, when he told the story of his rendition to torture. Arar was detained at JFK Airport in September 2002, and then sent by the United States to Syria, via Jordan. He was held there in a dark, coffin-like cell, and brought out to be beaten with electrical cables.

"The cable is a black electrical cable, about two inches thick," Arar explained in a narrative of his experiences. "They hit me with it everywhere on my body."

While I am just as patriotic as I believe most all Americans are, I believe patriotism requires an additional step that I believe all at this site are willing to take, and that is to decry when our own country has taken a wrong step.  So much has happened, and for the most part I can only blame our media, but I blame the American public as well, who still, to this day, either don't believe we did and are continuing to do wrong, but will find some way at justifying the behavior without realize it compromises the entire historical ideals of the United States of America...

In 1984, the USA ratified, and in June 26, 1987 the UN adopted, in addition to the old and historic Geneva Conventions,the "Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment"

http://www.unhchr.ch/...

   Considering that, in accordance with the principles proclaimed in the Charter of the United Nations, recognition of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

   Recognizing that those rights derive from the inherent dignity of the human person,

   Considering the obligation of States under the Charter, in particular Article 55, to promote universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms,

   Having regard to article 5 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and article 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, both of which provide that no one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment,

   Having regard also to the Declaration on the Protection of All Persons from Being Subjected to Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, adopted by the General Assembly on 9 December 1975,

   Desiring to make more effective the struggle against torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment throughout the world,

In going back now to the Findlaw article, the commentator notes that what was accomplished by the Bush administration was clearly illegal (not to mention something we should have never engaged in because of our long standing opposition to torture...and the beacon died for the world):

These renditions are and were illegal under international law. In particular, they violate U.S. obligations under the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, a treaty the United States ratified in 1994.

According to the Convention against Torture, torture is "any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession," when it is "inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity." States violate the Convention against Torture not only by directly inflicting torture, but also, under article 3, when they "expel, return ('refouler') or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture."

Rendition to torture is thus a clear violation of the prohibition against torture. Indeed, in a 2006 report, the UN Committee against Torture, the international expert body responsible for monitoring state compliance with the Convention against Torture, condemned U.S. use of the practice. It specifically found that the U.S. government's "rendition of suspects, without any judicial procedure, to States where they face a real risk of torture" violated the treaty.

Honestly, while none of are any longer "shocked" by the "dark side" of this administration, I believe what shocks me more is that Americans aren't actually up in arms (so to speak) about how this administration has totally destroyed not only what I consider our fundamental principals, the thoughts of freedom, equality, civil rights, justice, liberty and simple human decency, not only here at home, but throughout the world.

The FindLaw Commentary ends this way:

Apology and Redress

International human rights law recognizes that victims of rights violations should be granted effective remedies, and the Convention against Torture specifically provides that torture victims have a right of access to the courts in order to obtain fair and adequate compensation.

To date, however, the US courts have proven hostile to victims of rendition, dismissing a lawsuit brought by a group of rendition victims that included Ahmed Agiza, as well as an earlier suit brought by Maher Arar. While the Canadian government acknowledged wrongdoing and compensated Arar for his suffering, the U.S. government did neither.

In choosing the dark side over compliance with the law, this administration has been unapologetic.

I consider that the administration has been unapologetic because there has been no huge outcry by the American public.

You don't need to be a member of the Democratic Party to oppose torture, rendition, and illicit actions by our own government, you simply need to be an American.  

•  As always...

  thoughts and comments welcome, or just mourn along with me at the destruction this administration has wrought, and hope and pray that a new day is dawning in a Democratic Administration....(for me hopefully it will be Barack Obama!)

  by LtdEdishn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:26:48 PM PDT

  •  If you think

    Obama will not do any of this, you're delusional. It is unfortunate. But it is also scary. Scary because Obama will have to do this. And because many of his followers seem to not understand this.

    Change, hope, bla, whatever. This shit will happen. Perhaps Obama would be able to minimize it. Perhaps. Just don't think this wouldn't be going on. It's been going on for millenia.

    This is sort of what puts me off Obama - to paraphrase (supposedly) Gandhi, I like Obama, I just don't like his fans. They seem so unlike him - or perhaps they choose to be blind to the realities.

    Maybe it's just the tone I see recently on DKos - maybe his supporters are just doing this for pragmatic reasons (you do, after all, need enthusiasm, morale, rallying the troops, etc.) I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.

    by debedb on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:25:28 PM PDT

    •  Should I take your comments as

      suggestive that you don't support Obama?  

      I don't need any of the things you suggest.  I am a lifetime student of history.  I read and I read, but it appears you are more interested in "tone" as it relates toward you response here.

      by LtdEdishn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:05:07 PM PDT

      •  you can take them however you want

        I certainly support a Democrat over a Republican.

        But is that all you take away from my comment? A necessity for a "loyalty oath"? This is getting scarier and scarier. I am not kidding. There is no question Obama is better than McCain any day, but this cult of personality is truly creepy. "Are you
        suggesting you don't support Obama?" Wow... Is this how it is now?

        by debedb on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:40:20 PM PDT

•  I guess I understood what

  Cheney meant then, when he said it.  I saw, early on, how this bunch was more than willing to stoke the fear and hatred and then benefit from it.  I knew they'd be somewhat successful, too.  I turned on my local radio stations that week and heard my supposedly moderate-to-liberal neighbors all calling for what amounted to genocide.

  Bush/Cheney always gave me the willies.

  by tjb22 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:32:08 PM PDT

  •  I really did miss this interview...

    and at that time, I regularly watched Meet the Press.  I recall just being in a state of shock for many many days after 9/11, glued to media just hoping more people would be rescued.  I have never cried so much in my entire life, even when my father died, and I feel like I have suffered from even more grief, now turned into anger since that time.

    by LtdEdishn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:38:50 PM PDT

    •  I think many of the tears

      I shed on 9/11 were over what I knew we'd be turned into.  Because I felt so differently from how the media was telling I should feel, I was kind of a hermit for quite some time.  If you can't tell, I'm still quite bitter about this...and I know I need to forgive at least those who have come around since then, but its hard.  I might forgive, but its going to be a long, long time before I trust again.

      by tjb22 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:47:44 PM PDT

      •  My feelings exactly, tjb eom

        by ozarkspark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:53:04 PM PDT

      •  Trust is always something...

        given tenuously by me; but I never, in all of my life, imagined that my trust in our government would be totally destroyed.  

        I have always understood the "politics" of things.  I have always understood that those of us who stand up for accepting we are all different was one of the things that makes our country stronger, so long as we maintained that thought that equality, liberty, and justice were applied.  

        Some of those thoughts were hard fought and well won by generations that lived long before me.  I have seen much ceded in just 8 years, and I want even those losses returned so that we can continue on.  

        First things first, however.  The American public must be made aware of how grievously wronged we were by our own government, and our own government must take huge steps toward setting those wrongs right.  This will take a long time, but...I am willing to fight for it...

        by LtdEdishn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:56:18 PM PDT

•  Small Men and a Woman

  I think of the seven of them discussing torture over tea and a shiny boardroom table. They have done immense harm to the reputation of the USA.

  The 15 year old Khadr and Jose Padilla, he had 365 days of almst total sensory deprivation interspersed with high screaming loud noise,  as egregious examples. Winning at any cost is not worth the damage that is done by operating in secrecy and dark rooms and driving people insane is such a terrible thing to do.

  Obama today talked about the world wanting the US to find its footing and take a leadership role in moving the world forward on environment, health, and so many other issues that the world faces.

  The Old way of the Small Men with ribbons and titles may soon hopefully be over. Great Diary..

  by ohcanada on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:37:28 PM PDT

  •  When I mention the American...

    tradition of "justice" here, as it relates toward Jose Padilla...here are the words of his own attorney:

    Andrew Patel, Padilla’s lawyer, said after the guilty verdict, "What happened in this trial, I think you have to put it in the context of federal conspiracy law, where the government doesn’t have to prove that something happened, but just that people agree that something should happen in the future. In this case, it was even more strained. The crime charged in this case was actually an agreement to agree to do something in the future. So when you’re dealing with a charge like that, you’re not going to have—or the government’s not going to be required to produce the kind of evidence that you would expect in a normal criminal case."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    by LtdEdishn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:41:57 PM PDT

•  he's more machine now than man

  twisted and evil.

  by socratic on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:11:13 PM PDT

•  Dick Cheney taught me something.

  He taught me to trust my instincts, to trust that quieter voice that tells me something's wrong.  I remember him on MTP and I remember that feeling I had.  I couldn't give you evidence, but it was when my suspicions started - while the pain was still so deep - he seemed rash and over eager to suspend our civil liberties.  It was when that sense of unity after 9/11 started to move a little towards a feeling of resistance.  It's times like that that abuse of power becomes especially easy.  It's also at times like that cooler heads must prevail.  That's why Obama is so right for this country.  He's steady as a rock.

  I guess this is also why I've trusted my instincts on Obama so much this election season.  If you take away all of the many good "reasons" why he should be president, my main reason has always been that my instincts have been telling me he's the candidate - and I know I'm not alone on that here.

  I too have that profound frustration as to why more American's aren't outraged.  I think many people are very susceptible to fear and authority.  I think the MSM and TV in general has cultivated this susceptibility.  The MSM depends on fear and framing the debate for people - all for ratings.  They have been criminally devoid of reporting.  I think many people will only understand the tragedy of the Torturer In Chief and his House of Pain if they are told about it forcefully and repeatedly.  That, or they wake up from their stupor (doubtful).

  I do think there's great hope in Bush's lowest poll ratings in the history of polls, however.  I waited for him to drop in the polls for years, I still take comfort in them, cold comfort, but comfort nonetheless.

  Thanks for the diary.

  by mrchumchum on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:32:30 PM PDT

  •  I couldn't have said it better...

    and your own post could have been its own diary, just because of the abuse of power that I complain of.

    Honestly, I take no comfort in Bush's low poll numbers just because I believe the majority of Americans just don't realize how seriously damaged we have become as a country.  

    When I said that our "beacon died for the world", I really mean it died. It remains for us to light that beacon again, not only for "us" but for the world.  I don't see any other populace of any other country who holds such ideals as the forefront of their nation's stances, even though some do better at addressing their own social concerns than does the USA>

    by LtdEdishn on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:46:53 PM PDT

    •  Yes, I guess it is me grasping at the bottom of

      the barrel a little to take hope from the lowest poll ratings in history.  I guess I'm just looking for any ray of hope I can find in truly black times.  I think you are wise to not take comfort in them.  I also think you are right that people really haven't woken up to the decimation of our integrity and commitment to justice.  I really applaud your commitment to lighting the beacon!!!!  Keep on lighting!!!!!!

      by mrchumchum on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:57:45 PM PDT

      •  The Good American

        Wiling to turn their eyes away and live in ignorance.  Fortunately we are all not "Good Americans".

        by Rogneid on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:45:28 PM PDT

    •  There are wonderful democratic movements

      all around the world, working for peace, sustainable development, racial justice, non-punitive justice and healing, and more. Tens of thousands of organizations - with millions of members.  Read Paul Hawkin's Blessed Unrest: How the Largest Social Movement in History is Restoring Grace, Justice and Beauty to the World
      http://www.amazon.com/...

      The rest of the world doesn't need our "beacon" or our "leadership."  They just need us to stop invading them, financing torturers, "investing" in them, polluting them, subverting them.  We don't need to export "democracy."  It wasn't invented here.  It grows naturally in all climates.  We just need to clean up our own house and rejoin the family of nations.

      by Cambridgemac on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:59:52 PM PDT

      •  I mention "beacon"

        because we were truly that for most of our history, long before we ever stepped into ventures that became more militaristic, or "imperialistic" as was noted by Mark Twain in the Spanish/American war.  Even post that war, we offered a "beacon", only the message became a little more muddied.

        It is odd that I, at my ripe old age of 47, now can read the words of Barry Goldwater, who never advocated for militarism, but for fiscal conservatism, and I can more closely align myself with him, while I was only a toddler when he became more outspoken.

        I can today read the words of other great "Republicans" such as Eisenhower, or even not so "republican" Teddy Roosevelt, and understand just how we have been led astray.

        Of course, I realize that our "beacon" has also been darkened by a lot of our own history, and when I relate it to me, and the hope and optimism I have felt about our country for most of my individual life, I always wanted us to be better than our past, and felt we were working toward that goal.  

        Dick Cheney actually brought us back to our "dark side" in ways I hadn't really considered in depth, but simply knew I couldn't stand.

        by LtdEdishn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:17:18 PM PDT

      •  the rest of the world does'nt need our "beacon"

        I used to believe the world did need our leadership,as I'm sure alot of other readers did.  In the short 7 years since this gang of thugs took over, I think we should just get rid of them, shut up, sit back and let the world do it's own spinnin'.  Nobody will listen to us again for a hundred years (or more) after these Neanderfucks are gone, anyhow.  I've never been  ashamed to be called an American, and never thought I would be untill these assholes and the weak-kneed (or equally bought off) Congress that is supposed to limit the power of the executive has given us a preview of how the future of this once great country is gonna shake out.  We are on our way to hell in a fast movin'bucket.

        by eddienutzak on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:57:30 PM PDT

•  Cheney is an

  

  by joeyess on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:34:02 PM PDT

•  Thank you

  by Cambridgemac on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:50:47 PM PDT

•  We were a work in progress anyway....

  So many embarrassing facts.

  Like this one:  women couldn't vote before 1920.

  So many many embarrassing facts.

  We dropped A-bombs on innocent Japanese people.

  We were supposed to evolve.

  Abolish slavery, and get on with growing better.

  Instead, in our brand new shining American century, we killed 1,000,000 Iraqis for the fun of it and raped and tortured them whenever we felt like it.

  Shame on us.

  by eroded47095 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:40:14 PM PDT

•  That Chickenhawk SonaBitch Coward Fuckhead Should

  Be drawn and quartered.

  And I don't like the guy, besides.

  by RoddieH on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:19:05 PM PDT

•  Good writing,

  The reason few are 'up in arms' is that this administration has undermined our constitution on so many fronts that it is almost mind boggling.  In the process, the tactics against citizens who do 'outcry' is immediate.  Americans are on unsure ground, even now with a 28% approval rating.  It should be 0% by now.  These 7 years are a mirror of National socialism from 1932- 1939.  A shadow on the American dream.  What ever happened to 'never again', now we know how it was all done.  Thanks Dick and W, you now let us all know how the German people allowed it to happen.

  by bikeman on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:40:44 AM PDT

•  Weep!

  You don't need to be a member of the Democratic Party to oppose torture, rendition, and illicit actions by our own government, you simply need to be an American.

  It would seem that Osama bin Laden killed many many many more than 3,000 Americans, because I can't hear them any more.

  by Arun on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:59:24 AM PDT

•  Said only a few days after 9/11

  but it sounds as if he'd/they had been working on it for a lot longer than that, doesn't it?

  by Mae on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:38:10 AM PDT