Daily Kos

Paying Off Clinton's Debt

Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:15:32 PM PDT

There are ruminations about Obama Inc. paying off the debt that Clinton racked up during her irresponsible, irrational and outrageous bid for the presidency post-February.  My thoughts, in a word: absolutely not.

Many pundits and analysts are floating the idea that Obama could pay down Clinton’s debt as a way to find resolution to the campaign’s ending.  This is simply not acceptable on so many levels.  Where to begin...

First, The Clinton’s made 109 million.  They can cover the outstanding debt they accrued.  Too friggin bad if she loses out.  When people gamble and open a business, Wal-Mart does not come in and say, oh, okay, we will pay your debts.  They earned the money over the years and there is no reason they cannot continue to earn.  She gambled and lost—that is life for most Americans.  Ironically, the champion of the middle and working class does not get this concept.

Second, the debt was accrued because of poor money management, poor planning and poor decision making.  In short, she is in pretty hefty debt because her campaign was a disaster from a logistical and organizational sense.  Obama does not owe her for her shortcomings as a decision maker—as an executive.  She chose Penn, not him.  Maybe Colombia could help pay it down?

Third, the debt was accrued during the slop sink strategy.  That was not a kitchen sink strategy—kitchens are clean.  While HRC and Co. were busy throwing the shitty water, dirty brillo pads and mildew drenched mop heads at Obama, he moved on with his campaign in the way he started.  It is not his fault they tried to shitty him up in pursuit of power.  It is not his role to come in with the Bleach and clean up their mess, financially speaking.

Fourth, that money she wants—11.4 million—has too many possible uses.  Some have argued that paying off her debt would be positive because it will get her out sooner.  The crux of this argument is that he will end up spending the money in the primary against her, so he will be spending it either way.  This may very well be true, but rather than give her money she is going to bank, why not use the money to further build a grassroots organization in the remaining states?  Why not use the money to reach out to potential supporters in a different way?  Giving her 11.4 million is waste of resources.  11.4 million can buy a lot of office space, fliers, hall rentals, etc...That money needs to be used to lay the groundwork for November, not pay off an irresponsible spender.

Fifth, paying Clinton off would be a prime example of the politics that Obama has been stressing against.  It is an old party trick, an old party game and an old party way of doing business.  This act would be the height of hypocrisy.  He owes Hillary nothing—nothing.  Not the VP slot, not an apology for destroying her dream and conquest, not a place in the Cabinet and certainly not money that she loaned herself in the pursuit of attempting to destroy him.  At best, he owes her an olive branch to bring unity at the convention.  Barack must stand firm against these types of politics, lest he stifle the very movement he has inspired.

Lastly, that is not Barack’s money.  He was given that money by small donors.  The average contribution is, I think, roughly $100.  Those of us who have given to his campaign want to see the money used to move forward—to lay more groundwork in order to build a stronger coalition.  Many of those who contributed, including me, could not really afford to do so, but we did because we knew and know that to not do so would be a mistake in the long run.  I have never given to a campaign until this one.  Many have said the same.  If we felt bad for HRC or we felt it necessary to help her pay off her reckless pursuit, we would have given her the loot.  But we did not.  We gave it to the Obama camp to help push the movement forward—to give resources to a man who has the potential to raise an entire country up.  I love Obama and always have, mostly because I respect his non-politician aura.  I will lose a ton of respect for him if he uses even a penny of the money I donated to pay of Clinton’s debt.

If Hillary wants to pay her debts off, let Bill speak some more.  She can write another book.  She can ask Wolfson for some of the money he will get upfront for his book.  Hell, she can write another book on how not to run a campaign (the antithesis of an Alinsky essay).  Go ask the DLC.  Ask the fundraisers who threatened Pelosi to foot your bill.  Go to Rendell and let the PA machine may for her machinations.  I do not give a damn where she gets the money.  But it better not come from loyal Obama supporters who have nothing to give but do so, and everything to gain for doing so.

Poll

Should Obama Pay Off HRC's Debt?

3%6 votes
96%147 votes

| 153 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, President, 2008, Debt, Donate, Support (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 26 comments

  •  To not throwing money away (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Horsefeathers, MarthaMyDear

    on a bad investment

  •  I just wrote a diary on this subject (5+ / 0-)

    Paying off Hillary's debt please read it, you are giving out false info in your diary

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

    by Snickers77 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:20:31 PM PDT

    •  Okay, so... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      groggy, Horsefeathers

      I understand the point, but that does not mean that Obama cannot pay off her debt or help her pay off her debt.  Even holding a fundraiser would be unacceptable.  Any funds coming in on Obama's watch need to go to November.  Period.  It should not matter if I give money online or at a plated dinner.

      •  the person who (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        True North, JRG, NotGeorgeWill

        contributed the money would have to know in advance that it was for the express purpose of paying off HRC's debt.  I wouldn't be for him.

        "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

        by Snickers77 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:30:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree with part of this . . . (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        snakelass

        let's say some of Obama's max. donors want to help Clinton retire some of her debts.  

        If these max. donors have the funds to spare giving $2,300 a piece to Clinton to retire a portion of her debts might not have any impact on the funds available to Obama for the general election (e.g. if someone has a discretionary fund of $30,000 for political contributions the limit on their political giving is the cap on donations -- not the funds that they have available for political donations).  

        Perhaps an arrangement could even be worked out with Clinton's max. donors where a contribution was given to Obama as a show of support.  

        Clinton's max. donors can't help Clinton out because they are literally maxed out by the donation caps -- that doesn't mean that they have completely exhausted their funds for political giving.  

        I don't know if Obama's bundlers have money to spare (or that they would want to spare it to Clinton -- or visa versa for Clinton's donors), but if resolving the campaign debt is a solution that brings the Clinton's on board -- and if the people involved are OK with the arrangement -- I don't see what the problem is.

        Doing things this way wouldn't have any impact on funds available to Obama's campaign -- because they people donating to him can't give any more; and it might be a way to get Obama addition funds from some of Clinton's donors who may be reluctant to jump on the Obama bandwagon with financial support.  A potential win-win.

        I do agree that Obama should not provide funds directly from his own campaign account to help off-set Clinton's debts, but this is a solution that might be a work-around the issue.

        •  I agree, lots of false info in this diary (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          snakelass

          We need to inform people of what will really happen so they are not discouraged of the thought of donating.  We the people will be funding the Gen Election so help publish facts.

          Helping the second place guy or gal is standard operating procedure.  Our funds will not pay for her.  Others who chose to will, and more than likely it will be big dollar fundraisers who will help.  The loan may even be written off by her and Bill.  It is the acctual debt other than the loan that will be addressed first.

          "Dear Mr. President, there are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot." - Grandpa Simpson

          by ourhispanicvoices on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:54:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  If this happened, there would be a lot of (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    BenMac84

    unhappy Obama supporters who have contributed to his campaign using money they desperately needed.  Many people on this site have shared stories about donating $5 when they only had $10 left.  It would be a slap in the face to those who have sacrificed to help him win.

    •  True . . . (0+ / 0-)

      if the money came directly from Obama's campaign treasury.  

      Not necessarily if there are maxed out donors to Obama with money to available to spend -- who were willing to retire a portion of Clinton's debt in exchange for a resolution of the primary contest.

      e.g. the issue for some max. donors is that they have hit their ceiling -- some Clinton donors might be willing to help retire some of the campaign debt if they were not already maxed out.  The same issue might be at play with some Obama donors, who are willing to do more, and have more money to spend, but they can't give anymore simply because of the donation limits.

      The trade-off would be that max. donors for Clinton, who might not otherwise give to Obama, raise funds for him, in exchange for funds from max donors from Obama who have not already contributed to Clinton.

      I don't know if this is a solution that any max. donors would agree to, but it is a work-around that resolves the debt issue without impacting Obama's fundraising.  In fact, it would probably help to generate additional donations for the campaign that he might no have otherwise.

  •  Critical mistake in your logic... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    NotGeorgeWill, Lamont Williams

    while a lot of it was great, I think there is a misunderstanding of the issue as to how it is paid down.  Many have cried foul at the thought of their money going to Hillary, but as I understand it, BO cannot just cut her a check.

    BO, like everyone else, is limited in what he can give to the Clinton campaign.  Donations, apparently, are donations, and it doesn't matter who from, what the circumstances are, or if she is leaving the contest.  So the money given him will not go to Hillary.

    Rather, in the past, the winner has agreed to help the loser raise funds to cover the debt through a variety of devices.  So anyone giving money for this will know it is for Hillary.  So anything you gave to BO at this point, other than possibly a one time donation $2,300 from BO to HRC, is not at risk.  I could be wrong, but I believe that is correct.

    •  The proposition, as it was posted on (0+ / 0-)

      The Huffington Post, was to pay off her debt, so he would not have to pay to fight her.  I have seen diaries suggesting that Obama might agree to help raise money for her, but that was not what this diary was refering to.  I believe this diary was in response to the HP diary.

  •  asdf (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    NotGeorgeWill

    ok, lets just cut and past this everywhere this issue comes up mmmkay?

     

     Under federal campaign finance law, the Obama campaign cannot directly pay off Clinton's debts, or the $11.43 million she has loaned the campaign,   because that would violate campaign contribution limits. But if Obama is the nominee, he and his donor base could provide invaluable help to her in raising money through signed appeals, joint fundraisers and by other methods.

    The law says:

       Any person who was a candidate and has a campaign debt from an election that has ended may solicit funds and hold fundraisers to retire the campaign debt

       The contributions received shall be treated as campaign contributions to the person's previous campaign, and all campaign contribution limits shall continue to apply.

    Which means that there still is a $2300 limit.

    And the most important part of the law is:

       Contributors shall be given notice that the campaign contributions are for the purpose of retiring a campaign debt. Any invitation to or notice of a fundraiser to retire a campaign debt of a previous campaign shall state that the funds are to retire a campaign debt.

    As quoted from the linked diary above, emphases mine.

    in short

    YOUR MONEY CAN NOT BE USED TO PAY DOWN HER DEBTS UNLESS YOU DONATE MONEY WITH THE INTENTION TO DO SO.

    Donating to Obama is still safe and a good bet.

    I am from MN and if you think our caucuses are undemocratic I have a lake to introduce you to.

    by edgeways on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:42:39 PM PDT

  •  I have a different take (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    marlakay

    I think it would be acceptable for Obama to sit down and go through her debts on a case by case basis and pay for some of it. He shouldn't pay back the millions she loaned herself or for Penn and his cronies of course, but it would show class and compassion to make sure food vendors and other "little people" are paid for goods and services they provided.

    •  please read my diary (0+ / 0-)

      Paying HRC's Debt it is illegal for him to pay off her debt.  He is limited to $2300 donations like everyone else.  the only thing he can do is ask his supporters to contribute to pay off her debt.  But they have to know before hand that the money is earmarked to pay her debt.

      "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

      by Snickers77 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:58:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Stop being wusses (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    BenMac84, The Totalizer

    McCain isn't paying off Mitt Romney's personal loans.  And Obama shouldn't be paying off Hillary's loans or debt.

    •  Look at this another way . . . (0+ / 0-)

      there are some Clinton max. donors who may not give to Obama during the general election -- these are funds that he might not have access too.

      There are also bound to be some Obama donors who have maxed out what they can give to Obama, but who:

      1. want to see a clean resolution to the race; and
      1. would be willing to help retire a portion of Clinton's debt in exchange for support from Clinton's max. donors (e.g. people who can't help retire Clinton's debt because they have already given the max. amount).

      This would be a compromise where Clinton gets something that she probably wants -- debt relief -- and Obama gets something that he wants -- additional general election funds.  It would also help to bring the donor bases of the two campaigns together.  

    •  McCain is paying off Guiliani's debt (0+ / 0-)

      though. Link here.

      This is one of the dumbest controversies here-- winning campaigns pay off the losers' debt frequently, it's not the big deal people make it out to be.

      Children in the U.S... detained [against] intl. & domestic standards." --Amnesty International

      by doinaheckuvanutjob on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:29:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  They used the prestige of the office to make the (0+ / 0-)

    fortune.  What's wrong with them blowing it trying to buy the office back?  I didn't send money to Hillary.  I sent it to Barack.

  •  Hillary should buy stock in Obama Inc. (0+ / 0-)

    As Hillary Inc. is graded as Junk and will soon be delisted.

  •  Where are her supporters?! (0+ / 0-)

    Let those donors who made threats to Democratic leadership to withhold funds (basically blackmail)if MI and FL weren't seated or who would fund a revote in those states raise money for her. Or those who requested and received return of their donations. Let Bill give a few extra speeches.

    After her negative campaign and her embrace of republican tactics, she doesn't deserve any help. If she had dropped out when it was proven there wasn't any mathematical way to win without destroyng the party, she wouldn't be so far in debt. Plus, she proved to be a poor manager of over $189 million. She had similar issues of blowing through campaign funds in her Senatorial campaign. There were even donor complaints about the way the campaign spent money.

    Let her fend for herself.

  •  Would she ever quit if she thought (0+ / 0-)

    her debts would be paid?

    Hillary and Bill are not going to let the small vendors be stuck with an unpaid bill.

    They have the money to pay themselves back. lol

    One or both of them could write another book or give more speeches.

Permalink | 26 comments