Daily Kos

Would Obama Prosecute Bush, Cheney, Rice, Etc.?

Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:02:36 AM PDT

One of the year's most important stories got lost in the furor over Reverend Wright:

...a handful of top advisers signed off on how the CIA would interrogate top al Qaeda suspects -- whether they would be slapped, pushed, deprived of sleep or subjected to simulated drowning, called waterboarding.

The advisers were members of the National Security Council's Principals Committee, a select group of senior officials who met frequently to advise President Bush on issues of national security policy.

At the time, the Principals Committee included Vice President Cheney, former National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Colin Powell, as well as CIA Director George Tenet and Attorney General John Ashcroft.

This is just the latest evidence that abuse of detainees was systematic and that Bush and his inner circle--as well as senior military officials--are to blame.

What do we do with this knowledge?
What does Barack Obama do?

Bush wasn't present at the meeting of the "Principals." But, as Elizabeth Holtzman pointed out in an important 2005 article in the Nation:

...[T]here are tantalizing suggestions that Bush may have condoned or possibly authorized coercive interrogation techniques. For example, a May 22, 2004, FBI agent's memo about interrogations in Iraq, made public under the Freedom of Information Act, repeatedly cites an executive order issued by President Bush that authorized "sleep deprivation, stress positions, loud music, etc." (The administration denied this and the FBI refused to comment.)

In addition, President Bush's oft-quoted executive order of February 7, 2002, calling for detainees to be treated humanely, by its very terms does not apply to the CIA. That leaves open the question of what standards of interrogation the President laid out for the CIA and whether his failure to impose the requirement of humane treatment on the CIA signaled permission for that agency to engage in torture or inhuman treatment of detainees.

We also know that both Rumsfeld and General Sanchez, then the top military official in Iraq, signed off on coercive interrogation techniques. And that the Justice Department advised the White House in 2002 that "torture may be justified." And that Alberto Gonzales told Bush that he had the authority to exempt people captured in Afghanistan from the Geneva Conventions. And so on.

How much damage have they done? How much pain have they inflicted? No one knows. No one--not even the people who created the monster--knows exactly what it looks like. We get only glimpses.Human Rights First (a former employer of mine) found that:

Since August 2002, nearly 100 detainees have died while in the hands of U.S. officials in the global “war on terror.” According to the U.S. military’s own classifications, 34 of these cases are suspected or confirmed homicides; Human Rights First has identified another 11 in which the facts suggest death as a result of physical abuse or harsh conditions of detention. In close to half the deaths Human Rights First surveyed, the cause of death remains officially undetermined or unannounced. Overall, eight people in U.S. custody were tortured to death.

But that report came out a few years ago. A few weeks ago, courtesy of the ACLU, we got another glimpse of the monster:

Special Forces beat, burned, and doused eight prisoners with cold water before sending them into freezing weather conditions. One of the eight prisoners, Jamal Naseer, died in U.S. custody in March 2003. In late 2004, the military opened a criminal investigation into charges of torture at Gardez. Despite numerous witness statements describing the evidence of torture, the military’s investigation concluded that the charges of torture were unsupported. It also concluded that Naseer’s death was the result of a “stomach ailment,” even though no autopsy had been conducted in his case. Documents uncovered today also refer to sodomy committed by prison guards; the victims’ identities are redacted.

According to both the law of military justice and international law, leaders who order or who fail to stop inhuman treatment are responsible. Yet no officer above the rank of major has been charged in a case involving the death of prisoner in U.S. custody. The most severe sentence handed down in such a case is five months. On the contrary, the military leaders responsible for torture often receive promotions.

What do we do with this knowledge?

For one thing, we can refuse to lie with euphemism. These people--these war criminals are responsible not for "enhanced interrogation techiques" but for torture. Torture and death. But telling the truth, as important as that is, brings us scarcely closer to justice and healing. For all the work done by the ACLU and Amnesty International, for all the courage of whistle blowers, for all the screaming of people like us, we can be sure that unless something drastic happens, the criminals will retire to their mansions and corporate suites.

The most obvious thing that could happen is an investigation launched next year's by Barack Obama's Justice Department. Says Mark Ambinder:

...[I]t remains one of those hidden secrets in Washington that a Democratic Justice Department is going to be very interested in figuring out whether there's a case to be made that senior Bush Administration officials were guilty of war crimes.

Jack Balkin disagrees:

Remember that sections 8 and 6(b) of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 effectively insulated government officials from liability for many of the violations of the War Crimes Act they might have committed during the period prior to 2006. Moreover, as Marty has pointed out, there's a strong argument that a later Justice Department would not prosecute people who reasonably relied on legal advice from a previous Justice Department. Perhaps the Justice Department could argue that the officials' reliance was unreasonable, but that might be difficult to show.

As Holtzman points out, as early as January of 2002, Alberto Gonzalez was very concerned that U.S officials might be prosecuted under the War Crimes Act of 1996, which makes it a federal crime to violate certain provisions of the Geneva Conventions. That's why, under his guidance, Bush exempted people captured in Afghanistan from the Geneva Conventions. But American prisoners in Iraq had protections under the Geneva Conventions; thus those officials in Iraq responsible for torture were exposed to prosecution under the War Crimes Act. They were, that is, until the Military Commission Act passed just before the 2006 midterm elections. Ten Democratic Senators and 34 Democratic Representatives voted for the bill, effectively protecting Bush administration officials from prosecution.

On this question, Barack Obama has said:

What I would want to do is to have my Justice Department and my Attorney General immediately review the information that's already there and to find out are there inquiries that need to be pursued. I can't prejudge that because we don't have access to all the material right now. I think that you are right, if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve.

Obama hints at the political difficulties involved. As much as I would like to see an investigation of Bush and the "Principals," I doubt Obama would order one; the political firestorm would dominate his first term.

But there's an alternative approach: Obama, by embracing this issue during his campaign, can convict Bush and the "Principals" in the court of public opinion.

In 2004 John Kerry didn't make an issue of Abu Ghraib for fear that it would soften him to attacks on his patriotism. The issue is no less complex for Obama: for one thing; it would lead him to condemn Colin Powell, whose support he has welcomed.

But what if Obama embraced this issue precisely to articulate his definition of patriotism? What if, when attacked for not wearing a flag pin, he wondered aloud if Dick Cheney wore a flag pin to the meetings of the "Principals"? What if he challenged John McCain--whose previous courage on this issue has failed him--to condemn Bush and his circle for enabling torture? What if on this issue Obama showed as much faith in the American people as he does on other issues?

What if Obama made torture an issue and we all rallied behind him?

Tags: torture, barack obama, george bush, the principals, war crimes, geneva conventions (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 42 comments

  •  Box McCain In With This Issue. (6+ / 0-)

    McCain was the POW and he has been a bit of a flip-flopper on this issue.

    I go forth to make new demands on life. Do something that is worthy of it and me. May I dare as I have never done! May I persevere as I have never done!-HDT

    by Democrat on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:07:10 AM PDT

  •  I'm unfortunately inclined to doubt it. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    david mizner, TomP, phrogge prince

    He'll be too interested in "change" and looking forward, and not wanting to be perceived as being vindictive about things in the past.

    I hope this is not the case, but it is my gut feeling.

    "Can I just ask a question? What is Fox News, it's just a Parade of Propaganda, isn't it? It's just a Festival of Ignorance." --Lee Camp, FOX News guest

    by twalling on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:08:49 AM PDT

    •  I agree (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      twalling, TomP, phrogge prince, catchaz

      and as I said, I understand.

      But I think he can raise it in the campaign, and you?

    •  One of the things he wants to change (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      twalling, david mizner, JG in MD

      Is the abuse of power by the executive branch. He has said he would investigate illegal actions. I think he would prosecute them if there is enough evidence to do so.Nobody should be able to get away with running roughshod over the constitution and the law.

      But right now is not a great time to be talking about it. If he were to make it a central part of his campaign, it would look like sour grapes.He has said, one of the first things he would do is to assign someone to investigate every executive order, so he can overturn any that are illegal.  The man is a constitutional scholar. He taught constitutional law. I'm sure he is every bit as angry as the rest of us at the abuses of the administration, but he will not be in any position to do anything about it if he doesn't get elected.

      "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." Sen Daniel Patrick Moynihan

      by atlliberal on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:25:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'll keep my fingers crossed! (0+ / 0-)

        Sorry to sound so pessimistic, I do hope he surpises me!

        "Can I just ask a question? What is Fox News, it's just a Parade of Propaganda, isn't it? It's just a Festival of Ignorance." --Lee Camp, FOX News guest

        by twalling on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:18:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  If Obama takes up these causes, I am confident (5+ / 0-)

    his supporters will rally behind him. History will look very unkindly on those who choose to look the other way simply because W is out of office. But that's not the reason we should investigate and follow up:  we should do it because it is the right thing to do.

  •  Bush will pardon everyone, like Ford & Nixon. nt (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    david mizner, phrogge prince

    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy" Hamlet, 1:5

    by synductive99 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:10:14 AM PDT

    •  This is a good point. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      david mizner

      If the whole rotten bunch of them are pardoned, how would this affect any future investigation?

      Also, if Obama does indeed campaign on this -- which would be great -- wouldn't it increase the chance that Bush will pardon everyone involved?

      However, much as I like the guy, I really don't think he's going to be tooo interested in putting the Gang in front of a criminal court. On the other hand, an investigation could give him cover, especially if he handed it to strong, independent figures (Patrick Fitzgerald, anyone?), and stayed scrupulously distant from it.

  •  torture needs airing next term (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    skrekk, david mizner, catchaz

    I'd like to see him do as you suggest and use it as an issue during the campaign, but in his administration all he would need to do is release documents and let the Congress do the investigating.

  •  Obama doesn't have to lead the charge... (5+ / 0-)

    but he definitely must ensure, through appropriate appointments and all available means, that the last 8 years are fully investigated and that the guilty are prosecuted.  As president, he could easily accomplish this without being a public "cheerleader" for it.

  •  we can lead the charge (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    NearlyNormal, david mizner, JG in MD

    by keeping this on the front burner, as david mizner is doing.

    great idea for Obama to talk about it as an affront to Americans, not as a prosecutable offense. that keeps him in the role of "healer" instead of prosecutor.

    but we need a prosecutor. and with Obama and us keeping the story alive, when his AG does uncover prosecutable offenses, he'll have to prosecute, and the public will have been made ready.

    VERY good thinking.

    we should work to defeat any candidate who steals the Democratic nomination.

    by catchaz on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:24:31 AM PDT

  •  Why not ask Hillary, too? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    paintitblue

    She's been totally silent on these issues.  Obama at least will go where evidence leads him.  And talks about the Constitution and the restoration of it.  

    I absolutely would love if these issues were front and center.  

  •  The modern Democratic Party (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    david mizner

    en masse, has shown little stomach for the "controversial" and confrontational aspects of governance.  And the corporate media reinforces this skittishness.

    Frankly, I will be shocked if we see any thorough prosecutions and punishments, regardless of the outcome of the election.  The beltway-dwellers, especially the media, won't stand for it.

    We're far more likely to be treated to the sweet, familiar sounds of "unity" and "bipartisanship."  

    This isn't Obama's fault -- and he may rightly see it as beyond his reach, without strong support from the party leadership.

  •  The President should NOT be making decisions for (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    TBarta, skrekk, david mizner, JG in MD

    The US Attorneys. Have the last 4 years taught you nothing? Investigations of politions acting in their official capacity should be handled by Congress, not the President. Congress has it's own authority to investigate, and on political issues it should take the lead.
    Aside from the general principles involved, as pracitcal matter it looks a lot better if Congress asks a US Attorney to investigate after conducting hearings than it does if the President orders them to.

  •  Let's get through the election (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    david mizner

    and see who winds up as Attorney General.

    There are a lot of pieces to successfully addressing a myriad of enmeshed, intertwined Constitutional and Human Rights issues, with corporate domination of government and media effectively preventing any possible exploration of these concerns outside of DKOS.  

    If this does get Corporate Media attention now, when there is no power whatsoever to address them, then a. we lose any chance to address them ever b. we endanger our troops- so let's get them home so they can't be hostages for Bush anymore c. let the bastards get out of power first, and let us reestablish contact with the rest of the world.  We need to build this carefully.

    Don't give McCain a platform for "protecting the troops" right now ... it will just be used against THEM as it has been all along- this will stir up reprisals against troops when we cannot possibly protect them and will fuel Bush's agenda.

    Get him out of office, and get our troops home first.

  •  Prosecuting the Perps? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Nature Maven
    Indeed, this is one of the $64K questions. As yet I've not  heard a single utterance from MSM raising the issue of Bush & Co. culpability in the misdeeds of the past 7+years of the leading Democratic candidates.  When will some knight errant reporter ask of  Obama or even Clinton:

    Do you believe that President Bush and/or V. P. Cheney have  committed impeachable or even censurable offenses?  If so what do you think should be done.  

    Do you believe that justice was served in the way President  Bush handled the "Scooter" Libby  conviction?  Was it a cover-up?

    What do you propose to do about the so-called doctrine of a "unitary executive" and the signing  statements of George W. Bush?

    Will  you take any actions that will  restore the doctrine  of seperation of powers among the "three coequal branches  of  government" that have served to maintain this republic as a modern democracy?

    Do  you think the national air needs clearing concerning  the legacy of the Bush years?   As President what actions and investigations will you propose to illuminate any of the potential wrong doing of the Bush administration?

  •  Obama has a gift for framing! (0+ / 0-)

    If nothing else, he should be able to inspire the country to reject the Bush years as a stain on our  history, and to take steps to ensure that it never happens again!

    As much as I'd love to see Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld sharing the cell formerly occupied by Slobodan Milosevic, I agree that the steps necessary to make that happen would suck up all the energy needed to solve our problems going forward.

    Obama is too forward thinking to waste an opportunity to make necessary changes, but hopefully he will look at the past 8 years as a way of informing the American people of the changes we need to make!

Permalink | 42 comments