Earth to Tweety: It takes TWO to make a baby!

Let's put this one to rest, shall we?  Tweety on Hardball just now was buying into the McCain spin on his "good genes" hook, line and sinker.  Apparently McCain was touring around with his 90+-year old mother today as evidence that his rather advanced age is not a factor in this election.

Tweety and the other commentators immediately and unthinkingly parroted McCain's illogical conclusion that son McCain has wonderful genes for longevity.  Not only is that not necessarily true in the first place, but why does no one ever ask about the OTHER contributor to McCain's genes, his father?

John McCain Jr., as it turns out, died at age 70:

http://en.wikipedia.org/...

I haven't been able to find out what he died of.  Funny how that never comes up in these discussions.  So can we put this line of reasoning to death?  The age of John McCain's mother means little to nothing about his capabilities for being president, just as the age his father died at does not.  But in any case, if we're going to bring up one, we should bring up the other.  It's both or nothing.

•  Wonder if his mama treated her genes as hard?

  McCain was quite a drinker and partier in his younger years, rumor has it.  The fact that he found himself a millionaire mistress before dumping his first wife implies that he didn't quite give up those pastimes after coming to Washington, for that matter.

  I'm sure those terrific genes had nothing to do with his melanoma, for that matter.

  by Dallasdoc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:11:39 PM PDT

  •  And while I respect the years

    he spent as a POW and don't want to make them a campaign issue, something that traumatic has GOT to take a serious toll on you.  IMHO John looks like a very old 70 to me, and I'm sure that's why.

    by oscarsmom on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:30:59 PM PDT

  •  Melanoma. An abnormal swelling of the melon.

    Actually, I think that wonderful Arizona sunshine is the major contributor to McCain's cancerous lesions.  

    McCain is, like me, extremely caucasian.  He does not have a lot of melanin which is the tanning agent which protects humans from the sun's damaging radiation.  Unlike me, however, he doesn't have the good sense to stay out of the sun.

    The closer to the equator the more likely the indigenous population will be dark, the closer to the poles the more likely to be ghostly.  I put on zinc oxide to look a little darker.  My kin are from colder climes and I respect my biology.  I avoid the sunny side of the street.

    by patarico adamasso on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:03:33 PM PDT

    •  I do think there is more of a

      genetic factor with melanoma than there is with other skin cancers.  But I'm no expert.

      by oscarsmom on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:33:54 PM PDT

      •  Nor am I...... however

        the tubes has the skinny...... Risk factors for melanoma

        by patarico adamasso on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:38:37 PM PDT

•  "Both of nothing"

  Cracking up here :)  Seems like a VERY reasonable demand!

  by WaitingForGodot on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:17:14 PM PDT

  •  I meant Both OR nothing of course :)

    by WaitingForGodot on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:17:43 PM PDT

    •  Phew!

      I was afraid it was my typo!  LOL

      by oscarsmom on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:31:22 PM PDT

      •  Sorry :( Enjoyed your diary.

        And dealing with the legitimate issues that his age raises would have to be part of the GE campaign.  I think the conversation downthread about McCain being transparent with his health issues should be the first of those topics.  For national security reasons, of course!  And no snark intended.

        by WaitingForGodot on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:42:44 PM PDT

•  His grandpa lived to be 61,

  his dad lived to be 70 - so you're correct about there being 2 sets of genes.  He's living on borrowed time. It will be interesting to see who he selects as VP because they might have to finish out his term - in the rare event that he actually could get elected.

  by moose67 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:22:17 PM PDT

  •  Yep the VP choice should be

    heavily weighted this time!  

    by oscarsmom on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:32:05 PM PDT

•  The women in my family live to 100

  So far, most of the men have died before age 70.  

  I've always seen John McCain's argument that he would live forever because he mother did as pure bull shit.  

  His health and his age are not irrelevant.  We don't let pilots fly airplanes if they are about to have a heart attack.  

  Give the man a complete physical.   Report it to the people.  

  by ruscle on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:27:37 PM PDT

  •  Yeah thanks for mentioning that

    aspect of it--it's even LESS logical to extrapolate from female to male genes when it comes to longevity!  What a crock.

    by oscarsmom on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:32:52 PM PDT

    •  Great Diary

      and I don't mean to rain on your parade on this point, but genetic expression crosses gender boundaries quite easily. Remember your biology lessons on dominant and recessive traits. There is also only one set of chromosomes that are gender specific and that's the XX/XY set, right?

      Which is all the more reason why we should all think McBush is demonstrating that he really has lost his bearing carting his mom around the country in a political campaign.

      by FLDemJax on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:01:10 PM PDT

      •  I guess the best way to put it

        is that it doesn't necessarily follow because his mother lived long that he will.

        by oscarsmom on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:30:46 PM PDT

        •  That is an excellent way to put it.

          Genetics is only one factor in how long people live.  The life of a politician is pretty stressful, and he's been a politician for a long time.  Before that, he was a soldier; another stressful occupation.  I suspect his mother has led a far less stressful life than he has.

          by oscarsdad on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:42:32 PM PDT

•  the biggest problem

  for him that I see is that honestly, to me, she looks about the same age...which makes him even appear in worse physical shape than he probably even is.

  by housesella on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:41:51 PM PDT

•  Um...well...

  there is scientific basis for this actually.

  McCain may have been thinking of data suggesting that there is a stronger correlation in longevity between mother and son than between father and son.

  These results are consistent with the hypothesis that aging is a function of the accumulation of damage to mitochondrial DNA, which we get exclusively from our mothers.

  ~Doc~

  by EquationDoc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:52:14 PM PDT

  •  Interesting!

    However, it seems that that factor would be pretty much lost in the wash of other factors--life experience, other illness, and one's own gender (it's a fact that females generally live longer than males, no?)

    I would like to know how John Jr. died--seems like I read it somewhere but now I can't find it.

    by oscarsmom on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:35:54 PM PDT

    •  That would be a reasonable guess...

      but it turns out that despite all of those other factors, there appears to be a pretty strong genetic mechanism at work. Much of these data come from study of centenarian families: you find families where a parent lives to be 100+, and then you examine how long the children (which are typically called siblings in these studies) and, sometimes, the parents. If there is any genetic component, you'd expect a centenarian's kids and parents to have significantly longer lives (statistically speaking).

      Depending on how interested you are, here are some references:
      http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.or...
      http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.or...
      http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.or...
      http://www.pnas.org/...

      Also, a paper showing that the mother confers more longevity on a child than a father is:
      http://content.karger.com/...

      I know at first glance it seems that environmental factors would heavily outweigh any genetics, but the point I wanted to make is that there is no difference. What I mean is, if you are live through environmental stresses, it very well may be because of your genetics. It's not simply "can I outrun the bear trying to eat me?" it's also "do I have the genetics that give me an advantage when exposed to a virus?" So you can't separate environment from genetics quite so easily.

      But it goes even deeper than that. The reason I know about this longevity work is because I work on cancer. And it turns out that cancer and longevity and obesity (and all sorts of other processes) are linked at the genetic level. If you cut a laboratory mouse's diet in half, it turns out they live longer. Even more interesting, they also develop cancer later in life. That is, the average age of cancer onset increases with lifespan, and lifespan increases with reduced calorie intake. This is seriously not interpretable with a purely environmental argument--you really have to think about the genetics of all these processes. Even more interesting still, if you look at the genetics that control these processes, you very quickly find pretty large-scale overlap between the genes and pathways involved.

      So, there is a pretty good genetic basis for comparing McCain's age to his mother's, and rather than his father's.

      That said, McCain's age is and should be a factor, though I like the Doctor Who approach: don't you think he looks tired? ;)

      ~Doc~

      by EquationDoc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:17:55 PM PDT

      •  Now you've done it!

        I have to sick oscarsdad on you now!  LOL

        by oscarsmom on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:35:05 PM PDT

        •  Unfortunately I am not much help...

          EquationDoc clearly knows the literature on this topic, and according to the references he provided there does appear to be good reason to think McCain's mother's age indicates McCain may have inherited a good genetic background for long life--all else being equal.

          Not all else is equal, however.  I think it is unlikely that McCain's mother has lived as stressful life as Senator McCain has.  On the other hand, McCain Sr. probably did--and look what happened to him.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the genetic risk factors for heart disease don't have the same bias toward maternal inheritance that longevity risk factors do.

          Conclusion:  Be Afraid, Senator McCain; Very Afraid. :)

          by oscarsdad on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:24:16 PM PDT

          •  Oh there you are. LOL

            Yes, McCain had a pretty miserable few years of service in Vietnam.

            Any clue what John McCain's father died of? I have McCain's book, I'll see if I can find it in there.

            I'm not a cardiovascular guy, but I think that cardiovascular risk factors tend to be more fraternal, though I would expect them to be very dependent on the exact type of disease, and the underlying mechanisms. Any that are mitochondrial in nature, though, I'd expect maternal inheritance to play the bigger role (ie. energy production).

            ~Doc~

            by EquationDoc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:33:24 PM PDT

            •  Looks like...

              Grandpa McCain died at the age of 61 from a heart attack a few days after the Japanese formally surrendered in Tokyo Bay. Daddy McCain died at the age of 70, apparently on an airplane en route home from Europe. It wouldn't surprise me if it was was a heart attack, but could not find anything on it--probably no autopsy was performed.

              Did you see the creepy Joe Lieberman vouching for McCain's bearings? Keith covered it tonight. Damn, why is that creepy bastard one of my senators? I wouldn't let him babysit my kids while I ran down the street for a latte, what makes anyone think he's fit to be my senator? He gives me the heebie jeebies!

              But at least we know McCain's bearings are in good shape. rolls eyes

              ~Doc~

              by EquationDoc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:59:02 PM PDT

              •  OMG Holy Joe is the WORST

                I'm so sorry he's one of your own...well at least you have more power to get rid of him than we do!  :)

                by oscarsmom on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:29:56 AM PDT

                •  LOL Yes...and that's exactly what I hope to do

                  when his sorry ass comes up for reelection.

                  Tooth. And. Nail.

                  ~Doc~

                  by EquationDoc on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:38:31 AM PDT

        •  LOL Tell him to...

          bring it!

          Sorry if that was more than you expected, it's just one of those topics I am deeply interested in.

          The overlap between obesity, longevity and cancer is also interesting and concerning given the concern over obesity here in the US. Expect cancer rates to increase, and lifespan to decrease, as a result (all other things being equal).

          Although I am very thin, I have decreased my calorie intake significantly over the last two years. Most days I eat a single small meal (dinner), sometimes supplemented with a small snack-like lunch. That's how overwhelming the data are.

          ~Doc~

          by EquationDoc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:27:57 PM PDT

          •  LOL

            This discussion turned out to be WAY more educational than I expected when I posted!  Ha ha.  Thanks so much for your contributions!  I learned! :)

            by oscarsmom on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:30:45 AM PDT

•  McCain Sr(Grandpa) Heart attack

  http://en.wikipedia.org/...

  John Sidney McCain, Sr. (August 9, 1884 – September 6, 1945) was a U.S. Navy Admiral. He held several command assignments during the Pacific campaign of World War II.

  By war's end in August 1945, the stress of combat operations had worn McCain down to a weight of only 100 pounds. He requested home leave to recuperate but Halsey insisted that he be present at the Japanese surrender ceremony in Tokyo Bay, Japan on September 2, 1945. Departing immediately after the ceremony, McCain died of a heart attack at his home in Coronado, California on September 6, 1945. He was posthumously promoted to full admiral.[6]

  by JML9999 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:01:52 PM PDT

  •  D'oh! Should have read further! :)

    by oscarsmom on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:36:31 PM PDT

    •  But you're right they're hiding very well what

      dad(JSM Jr)died of

      by JML9999 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:43:40 PM PDT

•  McCain is Chris Matthew's guy, didn't you know?

  He's going to get a word in for him whenever he can.

  The MSM dragged McCain across the finish line during the Republican primary.  

  Now they have to work on selling him to the rest of the voters.

  by Pazuzu on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:04:05 PM PDT

  •  Tweety must love BBQ ribs--doesn't want to miss

    any outdoor parties.

    by Phil S 33 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:07:10 PM PDT

    •  It's the Heroin in the BBQ Sauce nt

      by JML9999 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:31:17 PM PDT

•  McCain said he'll release medical records 5/23

  That should be interesting.

  by CA Libertarian on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:26:22 PM PDT

  •  Records say he has the Heart of an 18 Year old

    In a Glass Jar in his pantry

    by JML9999 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:33:38 PM PDT

    •  At least he can't be called heartless then! n/t

      by oscarsdad on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:49:36 PM PDT

      •  Likes his mistresses young does he?

        by AuntieM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:05:22 PM PDT