Daily Kos

Nomination Reform: SuperDelegates Must Go

Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:17:37 AM PDT

This is the first in a series of diaries I'm hoping will turn into a discussion of reform of the presidential nomination process.

But I'll post the series anyway, even if the discussion does not ensue.

The starting point for any serious discussion about the nomination process has to begin with the understanding that the elements that are currently in place are all there for a reason.  I go into those reasons in detail at a blog post here.
You may not like some of the provisions, and you may not like some of the reasons for their existence. But they all reflect reality, and reform has to respect reality.

In this diary I'll just enumerate what I see as the
objectives of the selection process.

Below the fold.

Suggestions for other objectives welcome.

You need a nominating process that, among other things:

  1. Picks a candidate who reasonably represents the party rank and file
  1. Provides an opportunity for low name recognition/low initial money candidates to compete
  1. Picks a candidate who has a reasonable chance of winning the general election
  1. Provides enough time to assess the relative strengths of candidates, to engage in on-the-job national campaign training and for dirty laundry to be aired.
  1. Picks a candidate the party can embrace as a whole, including party leaders and key voting blocs
  1. Has reasonably balanced regional appeal
  1. Picks a clear winner
  1. Grows and strengthens the party

Now, these overlap, and there may be others, but I'll take this as a starting point, and welcome contributions for how to make the list more precise and more complete.  When you look at this list, you should see that the objectives often conflict--the rank and file choice (1) may not have a reasonable chance to win (3), for example. The reason the process is so complicated is because it reflects these conflicting objectives. An attempt to reform the process that is thoughtful has to recognize these conflicts, and deal with them.  Apparently simple solutions, like a single national primary, are pretty clearly bad ideas, because they don't address enough of the selection process objectives.

Today's topic is the SuperDelegates. Why do they exist?

In terms of this list, they exist for reasons 3, 5. 6 and 8. The SuperDelegates are there to make sure that the nominee can win--that the rank and file haven't picked a DFH who can't win. That the selection will strengthen and not weaken the party, and that regionalism hasn't messed up the race.

However, in practical hardnosed political terms, we've learned something about the role of the SuperDelegates in this cycle.

The idea, in less abstract terms, is that they would stop the bleeding in a close contest that has an inevitable result but would be divisive to play out.  In particular, they would stop a repeat of Kennedy-Carter in 1980, a conflict that went to the convention.  They did play this role in 1984, cutting off Hart's challenge to Mondale.

However, in this cycle, we've discovered that they'll only play this role when the inevitable nominee is the establishment candidate.  When the inevitable nominee is an insurgent, the SuperDelegates are paralyzed.  Even now in this campaign, they're afraid to come clean with their position. These are supposed to be the courageous wiser heads. But instead they are just scared of getting into trouble, waiting for everyone else to get on board.

As I said at the outset, every element of the nomination process--early open primary in a small state like NH, a mix of closed and open primaries, caucuses and primaries both, a long sequence of contests etc all are in place for a reason.  The SuperDelegates are also there for a reason. Stopping the bleeding.

But in this cycle, they've failed to do so. Instead, they've added an anti-coagulant. Without the SuperDelegates, Obama's insuperable lead would have led to an earlier Clinton concession. But WITH SuperDelegates unwilling to endorse an insurgent, we've seen that they can actually undermine the process. The presence of SuperDelegates provides a path to the nomination outside pledged delegate selection by the rank and file. Clinton has introduced the notion that popular vote, an impossible metric to calculate in a process that includes open primaries and caucuses, should be a measure to consider.  She has also introduced a throwback to the smoke-filled room process that selected Humphrey in 1968, where party insiders would override the popular selection for reasons of either electabilty, or more to the point, preservation of the status quo among power brokers. This was fatal to the party in 1968, giving power to Southern Democrats not committed to rank and file Democratic viewpoints which were broadly popular*.

In 1968, and before (I'm reading the incomparable Nixonland)  by Rick Perlstein) the delegates to the convention WERE SuperDelegates. The reforms following the 1968 debacle of unseated delegations selected by primary votes, not to mention fistfights on the floor, led to the much more open 1972 process, a process that picked an unelectable candidate.

It's arguable that this would be a good thing--that Gary Hart's exploitation of the new rules in 1972 to get McGovern the nomination hurt the party by picking an unelectable candidate, and that the inability to shut down the Kennedy insurgency cost Carter the election.

But picking Mondale didn't give him the win.  And the SuperDelegates have hurt the process in this cycle.  So the two times they have come into play, they haven't helped. And this time they have actively done damage, extending the contest needlessly, and delaying focus on McCain.  It looks like we'd be better off in a close contest like this one letting it go to the Convention without one candidate professing that the process is illegitimate.

It seems clear to me that if there is a need for SuperDelegates, there certainly isn't a need for so many of them. If the right number is not zero, it is certainly not 535 out of 2400. While I'd favor zero, there's an argument for some smaller number, like two or three per state delegation, headed by the senior elected official, governor, Senator or Congressman with most seniority, or, in AK, the mayor of the most populous city.  (But not for long. Go Begich.)

I'd rather get rid of them entirely. The risk then is that a  candidate running a distant 3rd, like Edwards in this cycle, would stay in the race longer, and play powerbroker.  (As I keep saying, the rules that are in place exist for good reasons. The SuperDelegates discourage favorite sons and distant 3rd place candidates staying in the race.)  And then the convention would have meaning, and have meaning late. In a split of constituencies, as we're seeing in this race, that could be divisive.

But we've seen more damage from the delegitimizing of Obama's  delegates than we've seen benefit from the SuperDelegates' ability to stop the bleeding. In my view, it's not worth the anti-rank and file cost if they are not going to be able to step in, every time, when the winner is clear

Next up, small state primaries at the outset--Markos's hated NH and IA.

--------------
*As Perlstein makes clear, Dems may not have won running an antiwar DFH candidate like McCarthy. But they had much less of a chance of winning running a lukewarm Humphrey.  Only Wallace made HHH competitive.  Nixon recognized that his greatest risk was an October surprise peace agreement, so, of  course, he treasonously set up a back channel to prevent Paris talks from succeeding, by making unkeepable promises to the South Vietnamese negotiators.

Poll

Superdelegates

3%1 votes
26%7 votes
69%18 votes

| 26 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Nomination, presidential, super delegates, convention (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 46 comments

  •  This is the easy part (3+ / 0-)

    Wait 'til we get to closed vs open primaries.

    Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

    by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:18:37 AM PDT

    •  Or caucuses (0+ / 0-)

      I have little opinion on SD's.  Keep 'em, ditch 'em - in today's instant access to info, 24 hour news cycle, internet world - I don't think it matters.

      The days when Superdelegates would overturn a majority or even strong plurality of pledged delegates are long past.  It won't happen this year - and was never going to happen this year - and I see nil chance of it happening in the future.

      I'll be watching when you get to caucuses -- because I have LOTS to say on that subject.

      I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

      by zonk on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:24:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Caucuses have their purpose (0+ / 0-)

        They're cheap.

        They don't involve the state legislature.

        They build party unity in low population states.

        I'm not saying we should keep them.

        I am saying that you need to recognize they exist for a reason.

        Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

        by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:30:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          JayAckroyd

          I agree.

          I'm most certainly NOT anti-caucus... quite the opposite.   I suppose I spend too much time reading MyDD - and forget that the caucus hatred isn't as widespread here.

          Personally, I'd love to see something like the Texas system go nationwide... maybe the proportions should change - 1/4 delegates for caucus, 3/4 for primary vote - but my reasoning is pretty simple.

          In a nominating process - party activist voices SHOULD count for a bit more.   After all, the party activists are going to be heavily relied on as the footsoldiers for the nominee.  I know that John Kerry in 2004 got a LOT of work from the Deaniacs... my entire Dean meetup worked our asses for Kerry.

          I understand the limitations and hardships of caucuses - but I'm not rich myself... and getting off work isn't easy for me, either... but I plan ahead and ensure that I take key days off (i.e., Election days to do GOTV)... I do think that committed Dems who go that extra mile SHOULD have slightly louder voices.

          Sorry to take this specific item off topic -- I know you'll probably be getting to caucuses, and it sounds like we'll be in agreement on that one.

          I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

          by zonk on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:45:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No no no this the idea (0+ / 0-)

            One motivation for trying to put this series together is that I think there is too much one off "I WANT A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS" commentary.  Just as you say, there is a strong argument for favoring high information, activist participants in the process.  In the end, I think I fall into a system that is entirely primaries, but it is important to recognize the role caucuses play in party building.

            Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

            by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:52:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              jeremybloom

              My quibble with the whole "I WANT A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS" is that selecting a party nominee to contend for an elected office isn't really an avenue where a pure, unadulterated 'Democratic process' makes sense.  

              I would never suggest something like a caucus should play a role in a direct GE -- because in such an instance, we are selecting someone to govern ALL of us... but in a partisan nominating process, I think it kinda does make sense that we at least recognize that a partisan nominating process is never going to be completely democratic.  I hope that doesn't too elitist - it's just a simple matter of recognizing the difference between selecting a representative and selecting a nominee to be a representative.

              I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

              by zonk on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:03:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  No supers in 2012 (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sandy on Signal, cfaller96, catchaz

    They get one vote like everyone else. The voters know better than "authorities", and in an electoral democracy, they make the decision, not said authorities.

    Now: on to delegate allocation in future elections. I say we go proportional by statewide vote, not by congressional district.

    And closed or open primaries? Personally I like semi-open. Let Independents have their say, but Republicans can keep out. If they want to vote in the Democratic primary, they are more than welcome to become Indies or Dems.

    The Republican Party is neither pro-republic nor pro-party. Discuss!

    by Nathaniel Ament Stone on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:23:36 AM PDT

    •  we'll get there. (0+ / 0-)

      I have a program I think will work. It's at the link. For delegate allocation, I like proportional to congressional district. 50 state strategy.

      For open and closed, I like early open primaries in low population states, followed by closed primaries in repeated super tuesdays.

      Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

      by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:27:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hmm, I don't like your delegate allocation idea (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      semiot

      Now: on to delegate allocation in future elections. I say we go proportional by statewide vote, not by congressional district.

      This seems like an idea that would eventually destroy the 50 State Strategy.  If you award delegates based on historical turnout in Dem primaries, then suddenly red states that have low Dem registrations "don't matter."  That will spell trouble in the general, and will lead us down the failed Clintonian Swing State path yet again.  No.

      Part of the aim of the nominating contest is to help build these local parties, so I don't understand why withholding influence from struggling or small local parties would help achieve that goal.

      Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

      by cfaller96 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:15:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Keep SD's but make them only 10% of the (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ssgbryan, JayAckroyd

    delegates.  There are far too many back room people.  It should be limited to current Govs, Senators and Congresspersons, ex Presidents and Veeps, and a few DNC types.  

    Right now, SDs are 20% of the total and that is far too much.  Every person who has any connection with the DNC is automatically an SD.  Time to stop that and reduce it.  We need mostly elected Dems as SDs, because they are more likely to follow the will of the electorate.

    John McCain - Practicing the old style of politics for the past 72 years!

    by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:24:49 AM PDT

    •  That's a compromise that makes sense (0+ / 0-)

      But if you want to zero--that is, just make those people the heads of delegations, I think you accomplish the same purpose, without the disruption we've seen in this cycle.

      Note that it woulda worked fine if Clinton had been leading.  Obama would've been pushed out, and given the veep slot.

      What do you think of Clinton as SecDef?

      Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

      by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:28:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Even 10% is too high. 5% is better. n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

      by cfaller96 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:00:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  At the time SDs were added to the process (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    cfaller96

    The primaries were winner-takes-all.  Their only role could be to break a real tie.  I like proportional representation in the primaries because it leads to retail politics all over the country, not just Iowa and New Hampshire.

    Get rid of the superdelegates (or reduce their number by 75%) and let the people decide.

    •  Yep (0+ / 0-)

      I think there's a strong argument stemming from this cycle that strictly proportional representation is a mistake.  We'll get to that too. There are good reasons why the system is the way it is, as I will keep saying. But I think strict proportionalism hurt us this cycle.

      But I'm a fan of the electoral college, for similar reasons.

      Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

      by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:32:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Proportional Representation Rules! (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        JayAckroyd, cfaller96

        Where the candidates need to hunt for delegates in the states that they know they're going to lose, they're making inroads for the general election.

        Look at Obama's numbers vs. McCain in PA for instance.  It seems to me that while his numbers vs. Hillary weren't improving enough for a win, his numbers vs. McCain were pulling even from a deficit.

      •  No, proportional representation is better (0+ / 0-)

        and I'm not exactly getting what the reasoning behind trying to shift over to a winner-take-all system.  "Because that's how the general election is" seems a very, very insufficient argument.  So what?  In the general election, they let Republicans oversee the process- should we do that too?

        Think about it this way.  If we had a winner-take-all system in place for this nomination, we might very well have ended up with Clinton (at the very least, she would have had a better chance).  But would that have been a better result (i.e. better candidate)?

        People can disagree on the answer to that question, but it almost doesn't matter.  The fact that a winner-take-all could only hope to produce a debatably better result is insufficient reason to change.

        Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

        by cfaller96 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:07:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  same as the electoral college (0+ / 0-)

          The argument is that it expands the mandate. A close win is a big win, rather than a tie.  This is complicated further by the media counting "wins" rather than delegates, giving Clinton Texas, when she "lost" Texas by delegate count.  One could use both, of course.  I lean toward a primary system of blocks of states selected randomly. Four groups. One could alternate proportional vs winner take all results.

          It's a mistake to say what would have happened if the process was winner-take-all. Clinton, we know now, campaigned as if it were, while Obama campaigned with an understanding of the rules. If the rules were different, Obama would have campaigned differently.

          Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

          by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:16:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Four is too small... (0+ / 0-)

            I don't believe a candidate can demonstrate staying power or national appeal if he/she only has to survive a four contest primary.  I imagine the timeframe for those four contests would be relatively small, thus shrinking the voters' ability to vet the candidates.  A Mitt Romney-esque (rich, attractive, message-disciplined but ultimately hollow) candidate could win that type of nomination, to the detriment of the party.

            I would rather have 16 contests, with approximately 3-4 geographically clustered states in each contest.  Think the Potomac Primary writ large.  The campaign would have a sufficiently long interval, but would still be quicker than the current format.  I'm fine with alternating proportional vs. winner-take-all, but only in the interest of compromise (see below for why).

            I understand that Obama would have campaigned differently, but my point is that winner-take-all distorts the desires of the voters and minimizes the impact of candidates on downticket races.  It's not a good idea to move towards winner-take-all, IMO, which is why I'm not enthusiastic about letting it creep into the Dem nomination.  If anything, I want to go the other way- agitate to move the general election off of winner-take-all.

            Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

            by cfaller96 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:37:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Objective 2 and 4 (0+ / 0-)

              I like two early open small purple state primaries, in particular NH and NM, followed by four super tuesdays about 3 weeks apart, with the states assigned randomly rather than regionally.

              What you're addressing (and the small states address here) are the objectives of letting a low name identity candidacy have a shot, and giving time to vet the candidates.  I can see four being too few, but 16 feels like too many.

              For the general, you'd prefer Maine's Congressional district electoral system?

              Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

              by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:17:23 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Um, I *really* don't like the random aspect (0+ / 0-)

                that you're proposing too.  By keeping the contests geographically clustered, you force the candidates and the media to focus on more local & regional issues.  If you split up Appalachia, for example, and paired PA with HI and later WV with UT or whatever, then all these states simply become "numbers."  They're simply contests that need to be won, and not regions to be won over.  It's a subtle difference, but I'm alarmed that you seem unaware of the risk of randomly pairing states together.

                For the general, I would looooooove to see us move to Maine's system (which Nebraska also has, I believe).  Award Electoral Votes based on Congressional District, but the popular vote winner of each state gets a +2 bonus.

                Yes, I would love to move to that system.  Candidates still have an incentive to pay attention to the rural areas, but they also have to defend/attack in pretty much every state.  Yes, love it love it love it.

                Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

                by cfaller96 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:32:35 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Interestingly enough, the 1968 Dem Convention (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    cfaller96

    inaugurated a process that did if fact lead to a rules change at the following convention (1972) whereby what we now call "superdelegates" were eliminated. My father-in-law was involved in the commission that brought forth that plan, entitled Madate for Reform. The link will take you to the report.

    Of course the superdelegate rule was revisited and reversed in 1982, in the wake of Carter's 1980 loss.

    I encourage your effort here to get the ball rolling on nomination reform in the Democratic Party. Although, I don't know how much sentiment there is out there for fundamental change, even through this season has exposed some weakness in the process.

    The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings. -- Julius Caesar, I.ii.

    by semiot on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:30:49 AM PDT

    •  It WILL change (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      semiot

      It always does when flaws are exposed.

      As I said, there are fundamental conflicts between different objectives. It's like the BCS in college football.  A tight contest is never resolved in an entirely satisfactory fashion. In this one, the supers have failed to do their job.  So we have to pare them back.  There's  no point in having this barrier to rank and file selection if it doesn't shorten the contest and increase the legitimacy of the candidate. They've been counter productive in this cycle, preserving a loser and weakening the winner's mandate.

      Again, if the situation were reversed, I don't think that would have happened.  But the SDs don't work with an insurgent in the lead in a tight race.

      Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

      by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:36:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  what galls me about superdelegates (0+ / 0-)

    is all the work, money and activism I do is meaningless if a SD gets to pick the nominee.  Earlier this year, NBC showed a 20 year old SD who had never even voted being wined and dined by the campaigns.  This guy had lunch with Chelsea but ultimately chose Obama.  This just is not fair.  It seems like bribery to me.

    SD's need the heave ho.

  •  my suggestion (0+ / 0-)

    25% of the delegates go to the state winner and the other 75% go to the winners of the congressional districts.

    1. Winner of the state gets 25% of the state delegates.
    1. Winner of a CD gets all of the district's delegates.
  •  You're missing one important point... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    JayAckroyd

    Yes, in one sense the SDs were created as a check and balance. But that's not the only reason.

    The convention is about two things: Choosing a candidate, and preparing for the election by writing a platform and rallying the troops.

    This is the big event of the party, and it only happens every four years. It's critical for our success in November that important local and regional figures like congresspersons, mayors (who run those all-important get-out-the-vote patronage machines), union leaders etc. are part of the process. They are the colonels and lieutenants in our campaign.

    In 1972, those folks were largely cut out of the process, and sat on the sidelines while us dirty hippies convened. They then continued to sit on their hands right up to November. The current system was put in place, in part, to fix that problem.

    To become a delegate, you have to run and be elected. If you back the wrong horse (Muskie in 1972, Biden or Dodd or Edwards in 2008) then you're SOL. Thats why state parties have created such a weird multi-tiered add-on delegate process.

    But let's go back to paragraph 2 again:

    The convention is about two things: Choosing a candidate, and preparing for the election by writing a platform and rallying the troops.

    Pre-1972, that was true. But since 1972, the convention has NOT chosen the candidate. It has merely ratified a foregone conclusion (even in 1980 and 1984). At this point, "convention delegates" are about as relevant as the electoral college.

    There's no reason in the universe to continue that coupling - so let's decouple.

    Without going into detail on the mechanics, I suggest we totally re-evaluate the candidate selection process. Instead of voters state by state choosing delegates who then vote for the candidate, let's come up with a process whereby the candidates are elected directly (with some kind of system to allow for small-state and minority input).

    Then the party leaders, organizers and activists (sure, we can still call them "delegates", why not?) can go to the convention, and take care of party business. Without all this ugliness getting in the way.

  •  Boo yah (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    cfaller96

    Right ho as well.

    Yes, the role of the national convention as a unifying element of the party has been weakened by a rank and file primary selection process.  95 percent of my motivation in starting this discussion is to flush out the objectives of the process.

    This why I think people who hate caucuses aren't necessarily thinking things through.  For small red states, caucuses serve a key party-building role. At the national level, the machine politicians play a key role in the general. If they are shut out by a DFH process, then you can lose elections, as in
    '72. But, in the long haul, depriving them of power may increase DFH influence.

    I used a provocative header here.  But I think the case can be made for fewer, rather than zero superdelegates. I am not happy, though, with their sitting on their hands in this one. If they were gonna override the (narrow) popular will, they shoulda done it earlier. And if they were not, they shoulda done it earlier then too.

    Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

    by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:10:45 AM PDT

    •  This was meant to be a reply to Jeremy nt (0+ / 0-)

      Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

      by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:21:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh Jay, don't you understand? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      JayAckroyd

      The Supers are weak people, Jay.  During the past two months, any time a Super opened his/her mouth, the talking points were consistently contradictory:

      1.  Please stop fighting!  Can't we all just get along?  I really want this thing to be over and for our party to have a nominee.
      1.  I don't want to influence the process, which is why I won't call for Hillary to concede or for the Supers to end it or (in some cases) for me to endorse.

      It was a frustrating display of idiocy as many Supers ran around grunting "Primary Fairy Give Me Nominee Pony!", while ignoring the reality that (after TX and OH) the only way either candidate was going to get the nomination was through themselves.

      These are weak, weak people, Jay.

      Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

      by cfaller96 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:23:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  surprisingly weak (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        cfaller96

        for the older, wiser heads.

        It may be that they are afraid of a black guy losing.

        But if he can't win this one, then the whole enterprise is shot.

        Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

        by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:32:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  In the middle of this I said to a friend (0+ / 0-)

          that we're seeing the worst of the Democratic Party.  The infighting, the disorganization, the self-interested "silo" thinking, etc...it was all on display for the country to see.

          The Party suffered damage the past two months, though not irreparable damage.  But I'm really disappointed that the Supers failed to recognize the danger of allowing a self-interested zombie candidate continue, and I judge them harshly for their refusal to do anything about it.  Even today in a post-NC&IN environment, there are Supers who have been approached by Obama and have chosen to remain uncommitted.  What.The.Fuck?

          This is why I'm ok with stripping them of any influence in the nomination.  As we've seen, they're clearly not worthy of such a responsibility.

          Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

          by cfaller96 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:47:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Failure of imagination (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        cfaller96

        The system was front-loaded to prevent this.

        Hillary wasn't wrong - everything was supposed to be over on Super Tuesday. Hell, if Edwards had stayed in and kept it a three-way race, it might have been.

        But because of the accelerated schedule, the dropout rate has also accelerated. I don't think we've ever cut the field back to just two strong candidates that early before.

        And then Clinton lost.

        Hunh? What's that I said?

        CLINTON LOST.

        She won fewer races and fewer delegates on Super Tuesday. Then came her Flailing February, when she lost 11 straight.

        Any other candidate would have been toast. But Clinton was Ms. Inevitability! And because of the supers, she had the resurrection option...

        So we suffered through Zombie March and April, with Clinton's candidacy being - not on life support, but functionally dead. Yes, she could win states, but no, she couldn't win the nomination. But she also couldn't quit, because of the promise of the supers...

        Not to get all Condi Rice on you, but, really, "Nobody could have imagined this...." :)

  •  Second Ballot Only (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jeremybloom

    Superdelegates should only vote on the second ballot (if necessary), and then only in much fewer numbers (i.e. with 0.5 votes each).

    •  Not bad... (0+ / 0-)

      But I like my idea better:

      Delegates don't select the candidate, voters do. Then delegates organize the party to win the election.

      We need to decouple candidate selection from party organizing.

      •  But going to the convention is a perk (0+ / 0-)

        that loses meaning if you take the presidentials out of it.

        One of the most surreal experience of my life was sitting in a mud hut in the Central Sudan, listening to the 1980 Republican Convention on the BBC via shortwave, and hearing Hattie Bickmore make one of the VP nominating speeches. I'd taken her daughter to her high school prom (I was on the other side in those days. But the other side was not evil in those days either). This stuff's a big deal for volunteers and state party officials who bust ass all year long.

        Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

        by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:44:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There's still lots to do at the Convention (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          JayAckroyd

          ... and today the voting is superfluous.

          There was a time when the roll call of the states meant something, since the result was in doubt. There would be multiple ballots, candidates dropping out, favorite sons swinging support....

          All gone.

          Let the delegates ratify the nominee. Why not? It'd be a good safety feature, too, just in case there IS a total meltdown between the primaries and the convention - that could happen.

          The point is, that 'perk' is already gone. The media hates the conventions now, because they're just big scripted galas - no drama. But screw 'em - the conventions are for us! For platform-writing and party-building and networking and rallying the troops.

  •  one thing missing in your analysis is (0+ / 0-)

    (or more accurately, "hidden" in your analysis) is your implicit acceptance of the modern PR circus that is the party convention. the original point of the convention was to choose the nominee. but now, the point of the convention is to provide a Media Event that will garner days of free publicity for the promotion to the public of the nominee.

    if we accept that the nominating campaigns are going to start immediately following the off-year election (as now seems to be the case), then we perhaps ought to accept that the post-nomination campaign is going to begin 6 months before the presidential election, and we should hold the convention in May.

    of course, the other implicit assumption in your analysis is that the two-party system deserves the non-constitutional institutionalized recognition and support it receives from governments at all levels. everyone in the blogosphere laughed at Unity 08 and the idea of an internet-based political party conducting an online, non-governmentally-sanctioned-or-supported-or-funded-or-facilitated nomination process. i don't know why. it's the obvious way to go in the future.

    I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

    by UntimelyRippd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:47:03 AM PDT

  •  I have no problem with elected officials and (0+ / 0-)

    former leaders of the party being super delegates. That said, I have a major problem with former party hacks and political appointees serving as such.  Hillary's main super delegate lead has been from the party regulars (many, if not most, with connections to Bill Clinton). I am not clear as to why someone like Nancy Pelosi's daughter should be in a position where she could possibly overrule thousands of primary voters.  If she wants a say at the convention, she should become a pledged delegate - not have it "given to her".  I have nothing whatsoever again her, I just can't help wondering why she, and several hundred other non-elected individuals, are super delegates.

    by Templar on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:45:22 AM PDT

    •  Yep (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Templar

      I'd cut them to three per state at most, all elected officials. Governor and Senators, then congressmen in order of seniority if there are not all three, and then people in charge of cities, in order of size of population. (NY would be Patterson, Schumer and Clinton.  KS would be Sibelius and whatever dems they have in Congress, and then the mayor of Wichita if they don't have any other than the one in Lawrence's district.)

      Come see Karen Tumulty discuss the MSM at Virtually Speaking on July 31st.

      by JayAckroyd on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:07:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  totally subvert democracy (0+ / 0-)

    the SD's were created to allow the party establishment to steal the nomination from a candidate they didn't like.

    "electability" my ass, the person who wins the most votes should get the nomination.

    ZERO IS THE RIGHT NUMBER.

    thanks for the diary, i hope we have LOTS more on this subject. now is the time to make this change.

    we should work to defeat any candidate who steals the Democratic nomination.

    by catchaz on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:08:18 AM PDT

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