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As we've seen these past couple of weeks, we've got a problem in our caucus -- while we have been busy stocking up on more Democrats, fact is the good ones are being swamped by the bad ones.

Now we're at a disadvantage vis a vis AT&T. We don't have the millions to pump into campaign coffers, nor the lobbyists to twist arms in Capitol Hill. And those Democrats feel safe. Many are in solid (D) districts and have no fear of the opposition. Or they are in tough districts, and think that they are solid given the Republican alternatives. And that was certainly the case when we were in the minority or even with our tighter current majorities.

But things have changed. Democrats currently have a 37-seat majority in the House -- larger than any enjoyed by the GOP during its reign of corruption starting in 1994. That means that if we win 32 seats, well within the realm of possibility, we'll have a 101-seat majority in the House. Even if we gain a more realistic 20 or so seats, we're still talking a 77-seat majority.

And that'll give us breathing room to begin holding our party accountable.

Remember, we don't have the millions to compete with AT&T's lobbyists, and our best-crafted arguments can be easily ignored. All the while, Steny Hoyer buys loyalty by tirelessly campaigning and raising money for his fellow Democrats. So how can we overcome those obstacles?


So 2010 is going to be the year we pivot from taking control of our government, to holding out accountable. Like Al Wynn this year, the corrupt, the tone-deaf, and the reactionary within Democratic ranks will face the possibility of primary battles. The infrastructure we're building will be available for those courageous enough to take on the entrenched elite. But when we have candidates that inspire, and can develop the alternate funding sources to finance them, the combined might of the Pelosis and Hoyers won't be enough to effect change. Just ask Donna Edwards.

So you're angry about the Democratic capitulation? Don't take it out on the party. More House Democrats voted against this abomination than voted for it. The party isn't the problem, it's too many of its elected members that have forgotten who they serve and why. Hint: It's not AT&T lobbyists, it's not Steny Hoyer, and it's not access to their checks.

You want to do something? If your local congresscritter is one of the bad apples, start organizing locally. Plug into existing networks or start your own. Begin looking for primary challengers. Do the groundwork. Don't expect help from the local party establishment, they'll close ranks. So tap into alternate infrastructures. Find allies in the progressive movement. If your local shitty Democrat is anti-union, approach the unions. They'd love to send this kind of message. If the Democrat is anti-choice, work with the women's groups. If the Democrat is anti-environment ... you get the idea. If you have access to professional networks and money, start organizing those.

Of course, this takes more than just bitching about your frustrations on a blog, damning a whole party for the actions of a minority more scared of Mr. 28% than of protecting the Constitution they swore to protect. This takes hard work. But now is the time to start.

And while people like me will focus on the task at hand this year, it won't be long after Election Day that we'll start looking at the 2010 map, looking for those great primary challengers.

Who to primary? Well, I'd argue that we can narrow the target list by looking at those Democrats who sold out the Constitution last week. I've bolded members of the Blue Dogs for added emphasis.

Ackerman, Gary (NY-05)
Altmire, Jason (PA-04)
Arcuri, Mike (NY-24)
Baca, Joe (CA-43)
Baird, Brian (WA-03)
Barrow, John (GA-12)
Bean, Melissa (IL-08)
Berkley, Shelley (NV-01)
Berman, Howard (CA-28)
Berry, Marion (AR-01)
Bishop, Sanford (GA-02)
Bishop, Timothy (NY-01)
Boren, Dan (OK-02)
Boswell, Leonard (IA-03)
Boucher, Rick (VA-09)
Boyd, Allen (FL-02)
Boyda, Nancy (KS-02)
Brown, Corrine (FL-03)
Butterfield, G.K. (NC-01)
Cardoza, Dennis (CA-18)
Carney, Chris (PA-10)
Castor, Kathy (FL-11)
Cazayoux, Don (LA-06)
Chandler, Ben (KY-06)
Childers, Travis (MS-01)
Cleaver, Emanuel (MO-05)
Clyburn, James (SC-06)
Cooper, Jim (TN-05)
Costa, Jim (CA-20)
Cramer, Bud (AL-05)
Crowley, Joe (NY-07)
Cuellar, Henry (TX-28)
Davis, Artur (AL-07)
Davis, Lincoln (TN-04)
Dicks, Norman (WA-06)

Donnelly, Joe (IN-02)
Edwards, Chet (TX-17)
Ellsworth, Brad (IN-08)
Emanuel, Rahm (IL-05)
Engel, Elliot (NY-17)
Etheridge, Bob (NC-02)
Giffords, Gabrielle (AZ-08)
Gillibrand, Kirsten (NY-20)
Gordon, Bart (TN-06)
Green, AL (TX-09)
Green, Gene (TX-29)
Gutierrez, Luis (IL-04)
Harman, Jane (CA-36)
Hastings, Alcee (FL-23)
Herseth Sandlin, S. (SD-AL)
Higgins, Brian (NY-27)
Hinojosa, Ruben (TX-15)
Holden, Tim (PA-17)
Hoyer, Steny (MD-05)
Kanjorski, Paul (PA-11)
Kildee, Dale (MI-05)
Kind, Ron (WI-03)
Klein, Ron (FL-22)
Lampson, Nick (TX-22)
Langevin, JIm (RI-02)
Lipinski, Dan (IL-03)
Lowey, Nita (NY-18)
Mahoney, Tim (FL-16)
Marshall, Jim (GA-08)
Matheson, Jim (UT-02)
McCarthy, Carolyn (NY-04)
McIntyre, Mike (NC-07)
McNerney, Jerry (CA-11)
Meeks, Gregory (NY-06)
Melancon, Charlie (LA-03)

Mitchell, Harry (AZ-05)
Moore, Dennis (KS-03)
Murphy, Patrick (PA-08)
Murtha, John (PA-12)
Ortiz, Solomon (TX-27)
Nancy Pelosi (CA-08)
Perlmutter, Ed (CO-07)
Peterson, Colin (MN-07)
Pomeroy, Earl (ND-AL)
Rahall, Nick (WV-03)
Reyes, Silvestre (TX-16)
Richardson, Laura (CA-37)
Rodriguez, Ciro (TX-23)
Ross, Mike (AR-04)
Ruppesberger, Dutch (MD-02)
Salazar, John (CO-03)
Schiff, Adam (CA-29)
Scott, David (GA-13)
Sestak, Joe (PA-07)
Sherman, Brad (CA-27)
Shuler, Heath (NC-11)
Sires, Albio (NJ-13)
Skelton, Ike (MO-04)
Smith, Adam (WA-09)
Snyder, Vic (AR-02)
Space, Zach (OH-18)
Spratt, John (SC-05)
Stupak, Bart (MI-01)
Tanner, John (TN-08)
Ellen Tauscher (CA-10)
Taylor, Gene (MS-04)
Thompson, Bennie (MS-02)
Udall, Mark (CO-02)
Wilson, Charles (OH-06)
Yarmuth, John (KY-03

Not all of these people will get or even deserve primaries, but this vote certainly puts a bulls eye on their district. If we can field enough serious challengers, and if we repeat the Donna Edwards and Joe Lieberman stories a few more times, well then, our elected officials might have no choice but to be more responsive. Because if we show them that their AT&T lobbyist buddies can't save their jobs, they'll pay more attention to those who can.

p.s. Four Blue Dogs voted to protect the Constitution -- Baron Hill (IN-09), Mike Michaud (ME-02), Loretta Sanchez (CA-47), and Mike Thompson (CA-01). They apparently realized that being supposed "moderates" didn't necessitate selling out to Constitution for George Bush's imperial presidency.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:45 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I will say (15+ / 0-)

    that Leonard Boswell had an opponent last month and I never saw a front page diary on that race.  It would have been nice.

    •  Is it safe to say (3+ / 0-)

      He could be the first in the blue to orange primary program in 2010?

      Remember, the first time isn't always the charm.  

      Republicans are not a national party anymore.

      by jalapeno on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:54:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, we don't have to wait until 2010 to primary (19+ / 0-)

        Bushdog John Barrow.  He's is likely to lose his primary on July 15 to Regina Thomas, .  The primary is July 15th with early voting starting July 7.  You can donate here

        If the FISA bill gets delayed until after the July 4th recess, her primary success could serve as an additional warning to the Bushdogs.

        •  This is really the difference between (21+ / 0-)

          Being a Movement Versus a Party.

          The "Conservative Movement" was not identical to the Republican party until they captured total control over it. This year, conservatives ARE sitting on their hands because they don't believe John McCain is one of them.

          They may be congenital idiots when it comes to issues, but they are RIGHT about politics. In the future, the Republican party will NOT nominate anybody they don't approve of. Watch and see in 2010 as their "real conservative" emerges in opposition to Obama.

          We need to do the same thing. We need to have the discipline to put our principles first sometimes or we'll just continue to be ignored.

          We haven't shown the Democratic party that we are more than a pep squad to give them money and support and then shut up in the name of "party unity."

          The pep squad doesn't get asked what they think of the coaches' game-plan. Their job is just to go "Rah! Rah! Go team! Big Blue! Yay!"

          Well screw that. We have to beat these fools and corrupt S.O.B.s who place Telecom lobbying money ahead of the Constitution that we're NOT their friends and that they better damn well pay attention to us or ELSE.

          The Republicans have accomplished this. Now it's our turn.

          •  23 diaries, 273 comments ever (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bwintx, TomFromNJ

            for this person.  Why are many of the most ferocious voices condemning so many members of the Democratic Party names that I don't recognize from the site, people seemingly attracted here today by the scent of Democratic blood in the water?

            John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

            by Seneca Doane on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:46:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Some just won't be able to be touched unless with (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Seneca Doane

              another Blue Dog.  Jim Cooper for example, or anyone from TN.  You just won't get a progresive elected from this state.  It's just the way it is.  We'll have to live with some regardless.  Plus, Cooper, or anyone who runs from his district isn't going to oppose AT&T.  They have a huge district HQ here with thousands of jobs.

              Wish we were more progressive.

              "Dear Mr. President, there are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot." - Grandpa Simpson

              by ourhispanicvoices on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:20:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Kos? (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              buckhorn okie, alizard, dkmich

              Why are many of the most ferocious voices condemning so many members of the Democratic Party names that I don't recognize from the site?

              I'm pretty sure Kos has been around here for a while. I recognize the name, anyway. Though I can't recall any other diaries specifically, the name does have a certain...familiarity.

              I don't know if he's attracted by the scent of blood in the water, though. Could be.

            •  Fuck that. (3+ / 1-)
              Recommended by:
              thumperward, buckhorn okie, dkmich
              Hidden by:
              James Kresnik

              23 diaries and 273 comments makes you an outsider? Bullshit. You've managed to tempt me to give you an HR, because not only do I disagree with that, I just don't see how it advances the debate. But I'd rather HR people I agree with, it's easier to trust my judgement there.

              •  Well *of course* you feel that way (0+ / 0-)

                given your 22 diaries and 411 comments.  No, that doesn't make you an "outsider."  But what I'm seeing in this diary are a lot of people who don't often participate very much in site discussion -- along with some who do, of course -- brought out by the tasty fantasy of lopping off heads wholesale in the Democratic caucus and somehow replacing them all with more progressive voices, without losing seats to Republicans, and apparently without changing the values and voting preferences of the electorate.

                A lot of people who celebrate this position are well known to people who participate here frequently.  Even if I disagree with them, I know where they're coming from and respect it (to varying degrees) for what it is.  But when people who don't participate much suddenly show for Shit On Democrats Day -- well, it makes me wonder.

                I doubt that some of the people standing on chairs clapping for Kos's brave declaration of (maybe) war (to some extent) against all (we'll see what we can do there) apostacy really have much devotion to the Democratic Party as a vehicle of change -- rapid change if possible, slow and steady change as need be.  Instead, I think some people just like the fantasy of being part of a powerful enough movement to scare people who aren't doing what we want -- but aren't willing to put in the efforts and make the compromises that are needed to do that.

                Now, go ahead and HR me if you actually think that an expression of this sentiment should be hidden from view.  Don't worry about my retaliating; I post here a lot and I know and follow the rules, including the one against HRs for mere disagreement.

                John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

                by Seneca Doane on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 05:36:32 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  That one deserves no HR (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Seneca Doane

                  because it talks about a rational criterion for "outsider":

                  much devotion to the Democratic Party as a vehicle of change -- rapid change if possible, slow and steady change as need be.

                  I happen to disagree with that criterion, but it's perfectly valid.

                  But number of posts on dKos, or user number, or whatever, cannot serve as a stand-in for that. Not only is there no good correlation, it is totally counterproductive. A healthy community welcomes newcomers. (That does not mean you should not have responded to the OC, or not questioned their sincerity, just that bringing in stupid number counts should not be a valid form of argument. And that goes equally for when you bring up mine. I'd feel the same if I had no diaries, or whatever number you have.)

                  •  And yes, I think it should be hidden from view (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Seneca Doane

                    though now that you've clarified, I do see that your post had valid content too, so I'll refrain. But if I could HR just the counting, I would not hesitate.

                  •  Thanks for the measured response (0+ / 0-)

                    I'll expand my explanation as a result.

                    One of my longstanding concerns here has been that Republicans, conservatives, and corporate interests are eventually going to figure out how to use DKos against us.

                    On effective way of doing that is to do what agents provocateurs have done with the U.S. Left from the beginning: sow discord within the ranks and challenge the bona fides of anyone who doesn't take the strongest and most confrontational possible position regarding issues, tactics, and other political players.

                    When I see a story like this -- despite my understanding why Markos is doing it, i.e., trying to put the fear of God into those whom he believes has betrayed our cause -- I am also sensitized to the prospect that if I were a conservative, I would be using an opportunity like this to try to sow discord in the ranks and make sure that Democrats would fight among themselves.

                    Every time I see a response slagging Dems, I wonder if Karl Rove could have commissioned it.

                    Now, someone might hate Pelosi and the other generally good Democrats on the list for an understandable reason.  For those who have participated here extensively, their reasons have played out over time, and in most cases the ways in which they are qualified have played out as well.    Such people could be here mostly to screw with Democrats, but in the whole I think it's rare.  Being in agent provocateur is difficult to sustain for a long time in a freewheeling environment.

                    On the other hand, when I see someone who appears to be attracted here simply because of the opportunity to slag Democrats and lower the chances of our winning in 2008 (not even getting to 2010), my antennae start waving.  It doesn't mean that I am convinced that something is hinky with them, but merely that there is reason to look at their sentiments a little more closely before applauding.

                    That may be unfair, but I think it's not entirely irrelevant to wondering what a particular poster is up to.  When they respond with a comment that gives a decent view of their thoughtfulness and concern for community, as you have, then that goes a long way towards satisfying me that they're a member of the community in spirit as well as in apparent fact.  And if my concerns about people using DKos to sow discord seem paranoid -- well, I've been involved in movement politics for a long time; I've earned it.

                    Thanks again for what was a perfectly legitimate challenge, even if I disagree.

                    John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

                    by Seneca Doane on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 06:38:50 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I've been in marches (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      buckhorn okie, Seneca Doane

                      where I've seen what I think are real APs. I just don't buy that they would waste their time building more than the thinnest of profiles. Or pushing any but the next-to-most out there ideas.

                      Look. I can buy the idea of an AP on DKos. I can even buy the idea of a swarm of APs - though the risks of getting caught start to make this implausible, I see no way to organize this without some risk of being caught. But anybody with more than about 2 diaries and 15 comments gets a massive presumption of innocence in my book. Especially if, as you say, there are undeniable bona-fides taking essentially the same position. It's just occam's razor.

                      Look at the original post. It was by no means screaming for blood, it was talking about building a movement. This is just not AP territory.

                •  You are new here. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  RedMeatDem, buckhorn okie

                  Taking the party back has been a long time common interest and goal of dailykos.  This site gained its strength and footings as a staunch supporter of Howard Dean.  You know, the guy from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.   These Dems deserve to get their heads lopped off, and I will enjoy it as much as I enjoyed helping to take Lieberman out.  

                  Kos, where do I sign up?

                  Republicans don't have 60 votes, and it doesn't seem to bother them one bit.

                  by dkmich on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:09:37 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Yeah, it's only been about three years (0+ / 0-)

                    Less than your, oh, four years or so.

                    I know that you love lopping off Democratic heads.  The more the merrier.  Enough to make us a pure party of 100 Representatives would be ideal -- though to keep the number that high we'll have to overlook a lot of bad votes, so maybe we should aim for a lower number.  It's just a pity that the size of the House remains at 435.

                    John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

                    by Seneca Doane on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 12:30:47 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  My number if more than double yours. (0+ / 0-)

                      Maybe you ought to tell Kos what a fool he is for talking about running primaries again Bush Dog Democrats.  Like Kos, I lop off heads when they deserve it, regardless of the letter after the name.  If you don't like the reform tone of this site, I guess you have a problem.  

                      Republicans don't have 60 votes, and it doesn't seem to bother them one bit.

                      by dkmich on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 02:18:49 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Don't I remember from a year or two back (0+ / 0-)

                        your saying that you weren't actually a Democrat at all?  I'll have to look that up.  You certainly seem to be happier with 100 pure Democrats and 335 Republicans in the House, which I suppose would make sense in that case.

                        Yesterday I directed a comment directly in reply to one of Markos's comments.  My argument has not been that no Bush Dogs should be primaried, but that the real villains here -- Hoyer and the people who evidently said that they'd put their names on a discharge petition to get this bill (or a worse one) considered -- should be the targets, and only then to the extent that we had any chance of improving on them given the political leanings of their district.  (I actually make an exception to that for Hoyer -- for symbolic reasons, I think we should primary him regardless.)

                        By the way, I don't know what "My number if [sic] more than double yours" in your title means.  Do you think that there are 201 decent Democrats in the House, or would you like to eliminate more than twice 135 of them, bringing us down to -36?

                        The latter is absurd, of course, but I'm going to have some fun with you if you argue the former.  Or maybe this is still abtou UIDs.

                        John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

                        by Seneca Doane on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:35:08 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

              •  Hide for using HR as a threat in a debate (0+ / 0-)

                But no one here has lost anyone. This is a digital-age pathology, thinking that you have a personal relationship with a TV character. -Free Spirit

                by James Kresnik on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:47:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I uprated you (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                buckhorn okie

                because I think the HR was out of line.

                Republicans don't have 60 votes, and it doesn't seem to bother them one bit.

                by dkmich on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:06:11 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  What? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              buckhorn okie

              If you are talking to Cugel, he has a lower user ID than you.  If you aren't talking to Cugel, I understand your comment even less.  If you are suggesting "dear leader" from this group, you are at the wrong blog.

              Republicans don't have 60 votes, and it doesn't seem to bother them one bit.

              by dkmich on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:04:25 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're assuming this is my first account (0+ / 0-)


                Yes, I was talking about Cugel, who -- unlike you -- has not participated enough here that people can get a good sense of where he's coming from, right or wrong.

                And if I want to criticize Markos, I will.  Surely you wouldn't say I couldn't, eh?

                John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

                by Seneca Doane on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 12:28:00 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Republicans are no more "conservative," than . . (8+ / 0-)

            the Soviets were "communists."

            Conservatives don't like "foreign entanglements." Conservatives believe in a balanced budget.

            These people are not conservatives, they are Jacobins. They hijacked the name "conservative" because it was popular.

            It's good to see Nancy "off the table" Pelosi FINALLY making it onto the bad list. When somebody figures out how to primary her, give me a call.

          •  Primary Pelosi in 2010. (5+ / 0-)

            Starting to make noise about that now will give us some leverage over her for these next two years.

            I think she is already scared of us.

            •  we need to find somebody in SF (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              buckhorn okie

              who'd make a credible threat against Pelosi first, and her name isn't Cindy Sheehan. So who's high profile, a progressive that has had it with Pelosi, and who is willing to run if the money can be found?

              Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

              by alizard on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:58:21 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Primary 'em 1st, 3rd party'em 2nd—n/t (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            --- Democratic mantra for '08: It's the EVERYTHING, stupid!

            by KingBolete on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:54:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Who's we (0+ / 0-)

            What set of principles do 'we' put first and how do we put forward comprehensive plans and candidates ?

        •  Barack Obama is supporting Barrow. (10+ / 0-)

          Barack Obama is featured in a new radio ad in Georgia endorsing second-term moderate Rep. John Barrow, who represents a competitive district that runs from Augusta to Savannah.

          The ad, picked up by TPM, is particularly notable because it contradicts conventional wisdom that conservative Southern white Democrats might fear down-ballot backlash from Obama’s candidacy because his record is more liberal than their own.

          "We’re going to need John Barrow back in Congress to help change Washington and get our country back on track," Obama says in the ad.

          Unlike Obama, Barrow supported the war in Iraq although he opposed the president’s 2007 surge strategy. His war voting record has earned him a level of opposition from the party’s left, as has his support of other Bush policies. He faces a July 15 primary challenge from Regina Thomas, a more progressive state senator. Obama’s endorsement is particularly noteworthy because Thomas is African-America, and the district’s population is 45% African American.

          Wall Street Journal

          Regina Thomas is change and hope, but Obama supports the blue dog.

          Excellent diary, Markos. I agree entirely, but if President Obama supports the blue dogs with money and ads in 2010, then what?

          "There is one man who knows in his heart that we have to build one America - not two - and that man is Barack Obama." John Edwards 5/14/08

          by TomP on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:38:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Reason why: (5+ / 0-)

            One of the big reasons is that Barrow as a super-del supported Obama in early February when those things were really key. His district went overwhelmingly for Obama, but as we've seen that didn't signify for many other SDs. Those people were very useful and I know it would be personally very difficult for someone who supported me and did so when it wasn't the easiest, to condemn them or work against them. In such cases staying silent might have been little better than endorsing a challenger.

            I think Obama will happily work with Thomas but if I would be reluctant to go after someone in Barrow's position I have stopped faulting Obama for it.

            There's something attractive about invincible ignorance... for the first 5 seconds.

            by MNPundit on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:43:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Another reason why Obama is not our friend. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            buckhorn okie

            Add in his flip flop on FISA and NAFTA, and lord how I miss John Edwards.

            Republicans don't have 60 votes, and it doesn't seem to bother them one bit.

            by dkmich on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:13:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Is he really likely to lose? (0+ / 0-)

          Is Thomas really likely to win in the general if she does win the primary?  I'm dubious as to both these questions.

          The best targets are ones who we don't really need to hold the seat.  I'm not sure Barrow falls into that category.

        •  Your Link Doesn't Work Properly (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          buckhorn okie

          I tried to follow it to the site and the trailing periods inside the href made it fail.

          Please fix it.


          The Bushiter's Iraq 2004 - 1268 Dead, about 25K Medivacs and 9000 Maimed... It's the Bushiter Way, wasting other people's money and lives. And it's worse now.

          by RedMeatDem on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 05:27:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Boswell's opponent was flawed (9+ / 0-)

      Ed Fallon is just plain disliked by some Democrats, either for his support of Nader in 2000, or for his arrogance and rudeness.  I think some people sat on their hands:  a pox on both your houses.

      Iowa is probably going to have its districts rearranged down to four from five.  Boswell is in his 70s.  This may be his last term.

  •  There are quite a few we can't primary (17+ / 0-)

    Ellsworth, Mahoney, Shuler, and Carney to name a few.  I'd prefer to hold onto as many seats as possible.

    Pragmatic progressivism is the future.

    by Pragmaticus on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:48:36 AM PDT

  •  Jane Harman is pretty high on the list (24+ / 0-)

    Marcy Winograd had the right idea but not nearly enough money...

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:50:30 AM PDT

    •  Jane Harman. (6+ / 0-)

      Almost makes me want to run.  And if I think I could do better than her, she's pretty dadgum bad.

      (-8.00,-7.85) "Jesus Christ was the first nonviolent revolutionary." --S. Stills

      by bubbanomics on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:05:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  A starting list ... (4+ / 0-)

      Congresscritter, location, additional offenses

      McCarthy, Long Island, bankruptcy bill

      Ruppersberger, Baltimore and suburbs, bankruptcy bill

      Scott, Atlanta, bankruptcy bill, conservative dem in very blue seat

      Baird, West of Cascades Washington, war funding

      Lipinski, Chicago, nepotism, carpet bagging, conservative dem in very blue seat

      Richardson, Los Angeles, insolvent speculator, weak incumbent

      Hoyer, Maryland Suburbia, bankruptcy bill, a shot across the bow of every blue dog in a blue seat.  Hoyer's district used to be a little purple, it's pretty solid blue now.  The dem primary there could be about 50% african american voters.

      William Jefferson
      barely needs to be mentioned, but goes on all these lists.

      •  on that list (0+ / 0-)

          isn't Brian Baird facing an antiwar challenger in the WA primary this year? (as in=hasn't happened yet). I am two states to the south of WA but maybe someone from the Evergreen State has some insights about this race. Should we get involved? Is the challenger any good and/or have any chance of success? Sometimes you win just by scaring the congresscritter. Jane Harman started voting somewhat better after her experience with Marcy Winograd, even though Marcy only got 38% and didn't win the primary.
           Also, Richardson is from Long Beach, not L.A.  She barely won her special election in an ethically polarized primary. Her group is the one that is shrinking as a percentage of the electorate in the area (She is Black, her main opponent was a Latina). As the member with the least seniority in SoCal, she is not as likely to be helped by redistricting as others, so while she isn't a goner yet, she isn't really safe in her seat.

        I'm not a Limousine Liberal; I am a Prius Progressive

        by Zack from the SFV on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:08:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The 38% Winograd got caused Harman to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Zack from the SFV

          improve.   I'm her spouse, in the interest of full disclosure, but it's been accepted, even by Harman's supporters, that Winograd's efforts sparked a leftward movement in Harman, or at least a leftward rhetorical and voting tilt.  The 38% obviously wasn't enough to defeat Harman, but it was significant, and sufficient to get her attention and to change her behavior for the better, even if she still leaves much to be desired.

          "The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love."

          by Budlawman on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 08:06:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

              and thank you and especially your spouse for running in that race. Running for Congress is a tough job and hard on both candidates and their spouses. I was peripherally involved with the campaign, but would be more so if she or someone else good ran again. I live in Howard Berman's district and wish he had any opposition this year (no primary, no GOP, no Green or Lib). I thought about running but don't think I would be a very good or successful candidate.
               Again I emphasize the appreciation of anyone who is willing to stick out her or his neck in a tough but useful campaign.

            I'm not a Limousine Liberal; I am a Prius Progressive

            by Zack from the SFV on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:08:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thank you for that (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Zack from the SFV

              It was much more fun than hardship for me, but Marcy was simply awesome and deserving of all the credit for her brilliance, intelligence, professionalism, energy, sense of outrage and fun, and her political skills.

              It's far too early (at least in my mind, but maybe I'm wrong!) to think about 2010, but we may be making some moves that would position Marcy for another shot at Harman then.   Mr. Berman and his egregious Iraq war stance -- worse than Harman's at this point, something I didn't think I'd find myself saying -- are definitely on the radar, and we have found ourselves wishing for a strong anti-war challenger to his left, who still would be good on the valid issues Berman champions (e.g., labor).  

              "The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love."

              by Budlawman on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:19:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Boucher disappoints me here... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    but I don't think he's a primary target... what do others think?

    Our country can survive war, disease, and poverty... what it cannot do without is justice.

    by mommyof3 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:50:34 AM PDT

  •  Boren - OK (5+ / 0-)

    A Blue Dog for sure.  Sounds like a Buchco most of the time.  If Andrew Rice's senate race makes a good show in Okiehoma then Boren should be a targetfor sure.

  •  I would support.... (17+ / 0-)

    any blue-dog in a R+ district just for voting for the leadership and showing up voting with the D's 50%+ of the time...that is way better than 10%...I think we have a lot better tartgets like Al Wynn who are old-time Democrats from safe districts who do not stick with our party enough that are better targets...

    By going after the blue dogs you will either elect a Republican to replace him/her or get them to retire and have a progressive get beat by a RW Republican...

    So lets primary them but do it smartly...look for Democrats that vote more conservatively than their district constituents first...

    Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

    by dvogel001 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:51:26 AM PDT

    •  Thank you (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gargoyle683, peraspera, oceanview, Urizen, soms

      I agree completely.

      Pragmatic progressivism is the future.

      by Pragmaticus on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:52:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  True, but (9+ / 0-)

        NONE of the Blue Dogs should be allowed to become complacent about progressive support.

        They should all know that they are in our sights and always will be.

        " ... or a baby's arm holding an apple!"

        by Lavocat on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:57:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  CHANGE OR BE CHANGED. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          buckhorn okie, kurious

          That should be the bumper sticker for the turncoat Blue Dog Dems.

          They all have to go or see the light.

          The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." --Groucho Marx,

          by Flippant on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:03:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  First, we need to get *more* progressive support (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          buckhorn okie

          in those districts where there is little.

          If a blue dog has more to fear from Republicans, well, they will tell us to take a hike.  They want to get re-elected.

          So, we have to educate the voters.  

          There should be NOTHING to fear from Republicans.  And, if everyone who could vote did vote...

          And we need to end disenfranchisement of ex-felons

          •  The R+ districts we have won... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            plf515, jlkenney

            we did not win with progressives...please do not say we have nothing to fear from putting a progressive in a R+ district against a Republican...that is just not true...

            Now what is true is that gradually over time demographics of a district do change and we shoud carefully evaluate if the district is still a R+ district or trending more Blue/Purple and deserves a more progressive representative...

            Not against change...just want smart/strategic change....

            Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

            by dvogel001 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:00:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  On a selective basis... (0+ / 0-)

          I agree...but I do not want to constantly primary someone in a R+7 district with a far left wing progressive just to give him headaches...if we have another moderate in the district that has a serious policy difference with the "blue dog" then by all means go after him...

          Lets just be smart about it and not have knee-jerk reactions over this or that individual vote...

          Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

          by dvogel001 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:57:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  some of those R+ districts aren't anymore .. (5+ / 0-)

      We need to figure out which ones have shifted and take advantage there, first.

      It's up to us to fill in for Carlin now. Do your part!

      by shpilk on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:02:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  True...but the time to really evaluate... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        buckhorn okie

        that should be for the 2012 cycle after the census and re-apportionment of congressional districts...we have a pretty good idea now about our CD R/D ratings...the real change is always after the census...

        Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

        by dvogel001 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:01:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yes and no (4+ / 0-)

      When we primary target, we should find candidates who still match up well with their constituencies, but will still stand up for what's right, like FISA.  I don't believe FISA is a right/left issue, it's a right/wrong issue, and anyone who voted for this bill is just plain old wrong.

      We don't need to run anti-gun/pro-green candidates in Michigan, but we do need candidates who will stand up for the constitution.

      "Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin, R.I.P. (1937-2008)

      by Alfonso Nevarez on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:04:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That is fine... (0+ / 0-)

        but they still need to have the other moderate/conservative stances that match their district if you have a primary challenger who is anti FISA but in line with the blue dog on other issues that is a fair reason to primary...

        Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

        by dvogel001 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:03:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I live in Dennis Moore's R+4 district (7+ / 0-)

      It's nuts to primary Blue Dogs like Moore in districts like mine. Also, to add insult to injury there were pro-FISA ads up here against Moore and Nancy Boyda with absolutely nothing to counter them from our side. If we want Blue Dog votes on issues we care about we can't hang them out to dry with media silence when they are attacked.

      McCain says overturn Roe v. Wade.

      by peraspera on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:11:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Indeed (7+ / 0-)

      The first aim should be at those who are in relatively safe districts. Admittedly, there's no excuse for voting for something like this, but if you're consistently voting with the other side, firmly against the leanings of your district, it's much worse and the challenge has a greater likelihood for success.

      Gregory Meeks in an ultra-safe NYC district is the first one who pops to mind. He also failed his constituency on the Credit Card fiasco among other things. Also in NY, Higgins, Crowley and Lowey (buffalo, mostly the bronx(??!) and near-nyc suburbs including many urban areas, respectively) stand out, but they don't have the history of Meeks.

    •  well thought out, dvogel1001, (0+ / 0-)

           i was trying to say something like that re. Gillibrand district NY-15? but you said it much better re. "the numbers"  

      •  I am a huge Gillibrand fan... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I was so enraged when her Republican opponent actually made her maternity leave an issue...disgusting...

        Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

        by dvogel001 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:04:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  sure, and i know a darling (0+ / 0-)

           woman here in town who wont vote for C.G. because she has children and, i am not making this up, should be home taking care of them instead of doing her legislative job. Sigh, we are lucky to have Gillibrand and not Sweeney.  still, i would love to have 59,000 more registered Dems in the district. would make things easier - to vote progressive and get re elected.

          •  He probably polled that issue... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            and figured he could get a couple of SAHM votes just like her...I am sure she will get re-elected she has been a breath of fresh air for her district and represents them well...

            Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

            by dvogel001 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:19:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Gillibrand is NY-20 (0+ / 0-)

        A minor point, but if she were in NY-15 she would deserve a's my district, Upper Manhattan, and it's tied for the most liberal/Democratic district (so i'm protective of it :))...represented by Rangel.  While she shouldn't have caved on this, she shouldn't have a target on her back by ANY kinda rocks to have her representing that segment of NY state (and certainly beats john "blutarsky" sweeney) seems to be getting more friendly for us, but still.

        I get the point of this tactic, but let's be wise about it and if we're going after the dems, attack the ones who are truly voting to the right of their districts and those who will give us the best chance of making our point...if we go after someone like, say, Lampson, where it's R+somewhere near 20, and he's way better voting than we could ever hope for, we look kinda silly and very well could help elect a VERY right wing Republican.

        (obviously, the meat of this post - everything other than the location of Gillibrand - is not directed to the person to whom's post this is attached)

    •  That's the whole point .. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      buckhorn okie

      there are Bush Dogs that fill that niche .. that's why primarying Wynn and Boswell made sense .. whomever won the primary was in little danger of losing the general .. but also .. look at Wisconsin .. sometimes someone with principles can win over less than hard core Republicans

      John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion

      by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:35:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Start by targeting the big three. (3+ / 0-)

      Don't waste your time attacking Blue Dogs in districts where the Republicans before them were far worse (Melissa Bean here in Illinois is probably the best example of that, given that the two jerks that held her Congressional seat before her were Phil Crane and Donald Rumsfeld).

      Pick some targets where you can be sure of winning the General Election after you oust the DINO congresscritter.  but make a point to start ogranizing now to go after the thre biggest targets - Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer and Rahm Emanuel.

      You may not succeed in ousting these three jerks.  (I would have to guess the best shot would be Hoyer, given his suburban district may be more responsive to a reformist primary challenge than the San Francisco Pelosi-lovers or the Machine voters in Chicago, particularly in a 2010 primary that will have far too many other high-profile races - draining away campaign dollars and volunteers - to mount a successful challenge to emanuel, barring some federal indictment.)

      But significant primary challenges to the trio would drain away money from their campaign coffers, reducing the resources available by them to help out other targeted Democrats in their primary races.  It would also send out a clear message to the rest that if these three can be threatened in 2010, any straying Democrat could be challenged in 2012 (when they must face the added danger grom redrawn districts).  

      •  Yea...I mean Blue Dogs... (0+ / 0-)

        basically need $1 Million+ every 2 years just to defend their seat against the Republican challenger and fight to win by 5% every you think that is any fun?

        They really are doing a great service for our country representing a R+ district and voting for our leadership and our policies 50%+ of the time....

        Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

        by dvogel001 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:11:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hoyer's district is weird (0+ / 0-)

        It includes a lot of African Americans in Prince George's (and Charles) County, but also includes a lot of rural conservative area in Southern Maryland.  It's not a classic liberal district.  Steny also has more money than God, and has brought home the bacon for his district.

        It's nearly impossible to unseat leadership in primary challenges.  I'd add that, as unsatisfactory as the current leadership may be, primary challenges against them all actually succeeding would likely be disastrous.  We'd basically have to find a whole new leadership, all at once.  And, it's worth noting, I think, that leadership should be judged in a different way from ordinary congressmen.  They should represent their constituents, yes, but they should also represent the best interests of the Democratic caucus.

        I think this FISA thing was a bad call, and Steny, in particular, is frequently on the wrong side of issues.  But the over the top condemnations of the leadership are basically unproductive.  We go to war with the leadership we have, not the one we want to have.

        •  Candidates with lots of money have lost before. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          buckhorn okie, James Kresnik

          And you don't have to match these candidates dollar for dollar to get attention.  The fact that a significant challenge to them is being waged will guarantee major coverage by the MSM.

          And all the money in the world won't help Hoyer, Pelosi a=ior emanuel if a majority of the House Democratic Caucus votes for someone else to take their place.  And as for the problem of replacing these Three Stooges, that would be the least of your problems.  You could easily find three far more capable and progressive individuals from among the 140-150 Democrats in the House that would be needed in a Caucus vote to send this terrible trio back to back-bencher status.

  •  More and better Democrats. (13+ / 0-)

    Carve it in stone. Write it in the sky. Tattoo it onto the foreheads of Republicans even as they struggle to break free from your determined grip.

    Bush and McCain are suffering from a pre-1215 mindset.

    by droogie6655321 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:51:35 AM PDT

  •  THANK YOU, Kos (14+ / 0-)

    This is very much appreciated.

    " ... or a baby's arm holding an apple!"

    by Lavocat on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:52:08 AM PDT

  •  Some of those bolded names are people (20+ / 0-)

    that got money from us [and me]. Some of those bolded names live in districts that are not deep red, either.

    I think some inventive arm twisting is in order.

    Really hard arm twisting.

    It's up to us to fill in for Carlin now. Do your part!

    by shpilk on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:52:19 AM PDT

    •  I know (12+ / 0-)

      and it practically makes me sick to my stomach.

      I hope I get an email soliciting more money from me.  I've got a little "solicitation" of my own in mind.

      Go convince a Republican. I'm voting for the Democrat on the ticket.

      by workingmom OH on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:54:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As soon as I saw the voting record yesterday (8+ / 0-)

      and My congressman's name was there voting for the piece of shit bill — Brad Sherman — I was on the phone to his office. He had previously opposed Telcom Immunity but voted for it on this bill.

      He had told me personally he was against it and now he has, I feel gotten to comfortable in his job and i will work for anyone who would primary his ass. This is a definite betrayal of trust. I even overlooked his support of Hillary. But no longer.

      The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." --Groucho Marx,

      by Flippant on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:08:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He's my rep, too, and I'd love to primary him (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        buckhorn okie

        He's correct on most issues (environment, healthcare, economy, etc.), but has shown a tendency to go anywhere from slightly to moderately hawkish on anything related to the Middle East, Iraq funding, and national security. In general, Sherman tends to follow either Henry Waxman or Howard Berman, reps for the neighboring districts... when I talk to friends about him, I call him Howard Lite. So on this one, he chose Howard's argument over Henry's. Very disappointing.

        I don't know if Sherman did that on principle, or for some reason related to district polling... to shore up some moderate-to-conservative vulnerability he perceives. And I really don't care. That kind of argument may have held a few years ago, but the tide on the Iraq War and BushCo's trashing of our civil liberties turned long ago. He's on the wrong side of this and so many other questions, where we need a strong and principled progressive.

        I'm finding it difficult to find a disaffected interest group to rally to primarying him... unions, enviros, pro-choice, etc. all love him, for their own reasons. Where do we find the group(s) in place to begin our primary efforts, or do we need to start from scratch. Any ideas... any local blogs or groups you know of?

        And as part of the primarying effort, I'd like to keep in touch with his district office, to let him know we're here, what issues are driving our efforts, so we can turn him around when necessary... and so we don't lose too many more of these important battles between now and 2010. If Sherman shows no willingness, then I'll be all the more anxious to join whatever effort, and even to lend a hand in organizing it... just need some advice and willing partners.

        I think that people want peace so much that one of these days government had better get out of their way and let them have it. - Dwight D. Eisenhower

        by scrape on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:39:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That was my thought. WTF?? nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      buckhorn okie
  •  blue to orange (4+ / 0-)

    this is the program to make democrats better.

    Republicans are not a national party anymore.

    by jalapeno on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:52:25 AM PDT

  •  Patrick Murphy? (PA-08) (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheUnknown285, soms

    I'm a little confused about Rep. Murphy's current status - he's a Blue Dog?  I thought this was one guy that the netroots were promoting last cycle?  A rising star?  What happened?

    (grew up in PA-08, moved away a couple years ago, a little out of touch but pissed off about this FISA bill)

  •  You forgot... (12+ / 0-)

    To bold Hoyer.  He should be bolded, underlined and italized.

    '[Obama] has treated us like adults throughout this primary, and it is time to act like adults.' - John Cole

    by RichM on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:53:13 AM PDT

  •  Nice. (5+ / 0-)

    Not one jackass from my home state of Massachusetts.  

    "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it." -RFK

    by jfarelli on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:53:16 AM PDT

  •  Here, Here, Cry havoc, let loose the dogs of war (3+ / 0-)

    ...not in Iraq though.  And definitely not Iran.

  •  That List Needs to Be Refined Down (8+ / 0-)

    There are some good names on that list, and while their vote on this issue not only "disappoints" me but is complete fucking bullshit, they are otherwise great on a lot of important issues.  And even with the tide turning toward Democrats in recent years, some of them are about as liberal as they can afford to be in the districts they represent.

    You can have your "Under God" back when I get my "Liberty and Justice For All" back.

    by karateexplosions on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:53:36 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for ratifying my earlier point, KOS... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    soms, carpediva

    2010 will be the better time to challenge those who sold us out in FISA renewal--with Obama in the WHite House and a larger majority in both Houses.

    "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."--Miguel De Santa Anna

    by GainesT1958 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:53:37 AM PDT

  •  I'll say it again (8+ / 0-)

    The Netroots needs to do more to protect "good" incumbents.  I see several names on that list that were supported by the Netroots in some form or another: Gillibrand, Altmire, Cazayoux, Boyda, McNerney, Patrick Murphy, Childers, Space.  

    We need some way of sending messages to incumbents that rewards good behavior.  We spend a lot of time punishing the bad.

  •  Thank you Markos! (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scrape, GN1927, Flippant, gloryous1, soms

    This is the focus.  People who want to 'hold Obama's feet to the fire' right now, in the middle of this thing are just nuts.  It's one thing to contact his office and voice opposition to FISA.  It's another to be running around publicly calling him 'spineless' and yelling that he's not a leader and such.  It's just not the time for it.

    Even if you don't like Obama, right now, there is nothing to be done but to pretend that you do.  Seriously, if you really give a shit.

    You don't sort of support your platoon in the middle of a firefight because your officer pisses you off.  It's just not the time for it.  

    Fear is the mind killer

    by Sun dog on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:53:53 AM PDT

  •  THANKS...this is exactly what we need to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GN1927, dianamarie13

    do. Start developing a local campaign progressive infrastructure NOW. Focus on a number of primary challenges in 2010. Help fund them, work on them, and send a message to the Dem party that we mean business.

    Stop destroying the brand.

    I ran against one of those Bluedog Dems on your list in 06 so we've been doing this for two years now.

  •  Didn't we support.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Bean, Gillibrand and Murphy during the last primaries?  I know I sent them money..were they recommended by this site or DFA?

  •  Kos, Kos, Kos: listen to yourself (5+ / 0-)

    Not in the White House Yet and already...we're planning the infighting.

    Is it possible that we can respect differences of opinion within a majority, or will we just be typical democrats and start frittering away any unity or sense of consensus even before we have solid control of the executive and legislature?

    Honestly, I am not a fan of granting Telcos immunity, but I can see the argument to do so. Holding democrats hostage on this is...

    a bad idea, let's just say.

    Call me any ugly name you choose --
    The steel of freedom does not stain.
    -- Langston Hughes

    by TheCrank on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:54:14 AM PDT

  •  I'm particularly upset that (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kurious, TheUnknown285

    some CBC members like Meeks and Clyburn are on that list.  Bookmarking this one.

  •  Just like Chaffetz beat Cannon via primary (2+ / 0-)
    in a solidly Republican district, so can progressive democrats beat blue dogs who betray democratic values. Work, organization and energy can make up for a lot of money.
  •  Ellen Tauscher (CA-10)....yuck (12+ / 0-)

    Just yuck.

    Image Hosted by

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:55:28 AM PDT

  •  too much ideological cleansing for me (7+ / 0-)

    Sorry I have to run to the Senate floor to abolish torture.

    by bten on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:55:43 AM PDT

  •  Leave Jim Cooper alone (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poliscizac, ourhispanicvoices, soms

    He gets it.  Cooper's good people and he's got good people working for him.  Lincoln Davis, on the other hand, has AT&T as his #1 campaign donor.  Stay tuned...

    •  I disagree (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GN1927, TheUnknown285

      Nashville is a lot more progressive than Cooper, and he needs to be pushed to the left and made to represent his constituents.

      He may be a good guy, but he needs to start voting that way.

    •  I could go either way with Cooper, but I know (0+ / 0-)

      that he's probably safe because while Nashville is more progressive than the rest of the area, that isn't saying much.  I live and work here, Cooper is a blue dog for a reason.  I do think that he could stray from his tag now and then and be safe.

      Davis can't be touched IMO.  If he runs for Gov. then his seat will just be filled by another Concervative Democrat.

      "Dear Mr. President, there are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot." - Grandpa Simpson

      by ourhispanicvoices on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:36:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Establishment Dems can sell out (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    esquimaux, TheUnknown285

    a hell of a lot in 2 years.

    The Glacial Pace of all this depresses me and abets those who intend to damage the country I have to live in the rest of my life.

    I wonder what else is up for sale before the bleeding can be stopped....

    On the brighter side, people being tortured may only have to put up with it for 2 more quick years.....

    I suppose that's a change for the better.....

  •  Proudly represented by a Moran (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kurious, TheUnknown285, klizard

    Jim Moran, specifically, who voted the right way on FISA, Military Commissions act, and so on.

    No if only Webb could show a little of the fire he had in his campaign...

  •  Primary al lot of these Democrats and by 2012 (5+ / 0-)

    we will be back to trying to get "more Democrats."

  •  And if we chose another test vote (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gargoyle683, jj32, Pragmaticus

    we'd come up with another list.  Add a few more votes and we'd primary everyone.

    I understand the motive behind this post and this effort.  If the netroots truly does grow in size and influence by, oh, an order of magnitude, I guess that this could work.  This, after all, is how the Moral Majority and allied organizations did their magic during the Reagan years.  But if we don't grow that much -- and we're not as organized and disciplined as the Moral Majority, the threat of snark and banning being less effective, after all, than that of hellfire -- then this threat seems empty.  Surely there are a lot of candidates around this year who can attest that the netroots doesn't (whether or not it could) always deliver the resources needed for victories of this nature, no matter how much our grand promises.

    Right now, I'd be happy to concentrate on a symbolic victory in response to the FISA vote: sending Hoyer to go work at the same firm as Al Wynn.

    John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

    by Seneca Doane on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:57:04 AM PDT

    •  What's wrong with active citizens (7+ / 0-)

      choosing to send money to primary challengers, particularly in the cases of Reps who continually disappoint?  This is a great diary.

    •  Nope, there's lots of people who'd never (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      be primaried.

      Any list you could come up with would have very few, if any, of the MA delegation on it. Steven Lynch, maybe on a couple. But Capuano, Barney Frank, Markey, John Tierney (my rep)--these guys always vote the right way.

      And I'm picking the MA delegation because it's the one I know best, but they're not alone.

      You bet your ass I'm bitter. And, yes, middle-america 'values' voters, you *have* been duped. Obama's right. And I'm bitter as hell.

      by ChurchofBruce on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:01:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Take a look at that list. We're threatening (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        over 100 primaries.  Is that a credible threat, or are we just huffing and puffing?

        Right, there may be a handful that wouldn't ever be primaried, though I bet you'd be surprised at what votes might be able to be found that escaped your attention.

        John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

        by Seneca Doane on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:23:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It wouldn't take more than 3 or 4 (0+ / 0-)

          successful primary challenges to wake these swine up.

          They just need to feel our teeth on their necks once in an while to know not to mess with us. You don't have to rip all their throats out, just a few bite marks to give them the FEAR!

          Right now the Democratic party as a whole does NOT respect us. They don't care at all what we think about anything and are amused that we think we can influence their vote.

          At most they are patronizing, and at worst they come right out and call us a "disruptive influence" on the party." (Ken Salazar is a perfect example of the latter -- he actually campaigned for Joe Lieberman and supports Telecom immunity and endless war-funding).

          •  Oh, please (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            If that were so, then the departure of Al Wynn would have already "woken up" these "swine" -- which is a hell of a thing to call many of these people.

            You're not going to make all of these people feel fear!  You can have a targeted campaign, as we had with Wynn, to send a shot across the bow.  But these sorts of dark threats don't fool people, don't scare people, don't do anything but make us look like we're pretending to be bigger than we currently are.  Piloerectile politics.

            It's a threat if you have any chance to deliver.  Otherwise, it's a farce.

            John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

            by Seneca Doane on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:39:56 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  this is a good test vote... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Kresnik

      if your rep won't stand up on his/her hind legs and work to preserve your 4th amendment rights and the rule of law, then they aren't worth a damn and they need to go.

      yoo broke the law, now the law breaks you

      by joe shikspack on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:09:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not worth a damn (0+ / 0-)

        Gary Ackerman
        Howard Berman
        Nancy Boyda
        Kathy Castor
        James Clyburn
        Elliot Engel
        Gabrielle Giffords
        Kirstin Gillibrand
        Luis Gutierrez
        Alcee Hastings
        Stephanie Herseth Sandlin
        Nick Lampson
        Nita Lowey
        Carolyn McCarthy
        Jerry McNerney
        John Murtha
        Ciro Rodriguez
        Joe Sestak
        Adam Smith
        Vic Snyder
        Bart Stupak
        Mark Udall
        John Yarmuth

        and I've left out many that Kos actively has promoted, including Cazayoux and Childers -- two of our recent special election primary victories.

        "Not worth a damn."  Are you kidding me?

        This broad brush threat seems petulant and empty, despite that I think that this was a rotten piece of legislation (although not one that "dismantles the Fourth Amendment.")  It works at cross-purposes with most of what this site does, and that is why it won't be taken seriously.  That it won't be taken seriously means that it undermines the credibility of the site.  It's a bad move and Kos will conveniently forget about it when it's convenient.

        Piloerectile politics.

        John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

        by Seneca Doane on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:36:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  what is the rule of law worth to you? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          do you believe that certain people and corporations should be able to break the law with impunity?

          should the unitary executive be able to do whatever he damned well pleases and any attempt by the people at redress be met with a mixture of scorn, condescension and force?

          is the constitution just a damned scrap of paper?

          yoo broke the law, now the law breaks you

          by joe shikspack on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:53:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I've been opposed to this sort of revision (0+ / 0-)

            to FISA literally for years.  Get off your high horse.

            This is not a debate about whether this bill should have been passed.  It should not have been passed.  Hoyer and the people who stood with him in strongarming Pelosi are fair targets for primaries if there's any chance of improving on them.

            Anyone on this whole list, though?  That's silly.

            But I'm glad that you're enjoying your day on the netroots.

            John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

            by Seneca Doane on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:02:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  are you sure that there aren't 100... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              James Kresnik

              or so people in america that could stand for office and stand up for the constitution and the rule of law at the same time?

              But I'm glad that you're enjoying your day on the netroots.

              thanks. i've been enjoying the intertubes for quite a number of years now and i find it deeply gratifying that you enjoy my company.

              yoo broke the law, now the law breaks you

              by joe shikspack on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:25:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sure (0+ / 0-)

                How much do you think we could raise to support their candidacies at one time?

                Or is this an invitation for other people to give their hearts and savings for a cause you believe in while you sit in an armchair and cheer until something distracts you?

                Primarying an incumbent is a huge effort.  It's not something people should ask be done lightly.  And, if one asks, one had better be prepared to put more on the line for that effort that the netroots, despite our successes, does.  We cannot handle a large number of primaries in addition to general election battles and I don't know who we think we're fooling when we breast-beat about taking on so many people.

                John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

                by Seneca Doane on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:02:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  i don't know how much we can raise... (0+ / 0-)

                  but, there might be some other ways that we can put some pressure on these people. some of them may not even require huge amounts of money. my rep is on that list and i'll be doing whatever i can do to put pressure on him to act better and i'll be encouraging friends, family and neighbors to do the same. we'll see where it goes.

                  yoo broke the law, now the law breaks you

                  by joe shikspack on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:13:49 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Look where many of these people are from.... (4+ / 0-)

    and you will understand that they are unable to withstand a Republican opponent if they vote the way we would like them to vote.  It stinks, but it is an electoral reality.  Many of these districts have also been gerrymandered to protect incumbents--Dan Lipinksi is my Congressman and it would be very hard to unseat him.  Mark Pera tried.      

  •  off-year's usually bad for party in power (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gargoyle683, peraspera, Pragmaticus

    not sure i'd move to a smaller tent then.

  •  How many of those (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    are people who were trumpeted to the sky right here?

    You bet your ass I'm bitter. And, yes, middle-america 'values' voters, you *have* been duped. Obama's right. And I'm bitter as hell.

    by ChurchofBruce on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 09:59:14 AM PDT

  •  Sort these from blue to red districts? (7+ / 0-)

    Is there anyway to sort these based on which representative is from the bluest and reddest districts?

    Getting rid of the ones on this list from blue districts would be a greater priority than those from redder districts, since it's more likely they'd be able to win a general election. The Democrats on this list from red districts we may have to have a bit more tolerance for.

  •  We only have to successfully primary a few (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IndySteve, TheUnknown285

    To get the message across loud and clear to the rest, in the end.

  •  I am So Grateful (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    to have Andre' Carson on the right side of FISA; I was one of his earlier supporters. I think I was #26 in order of campaign donors. Grandma Julia Carson would be proud!

    "If I ever lose my mind I hope some honest person will find it and take it to Lost and Found." George Carlin

    by CityLightsLover on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:00:14 AM PDT

  •  the party is the problem (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheUnknown285, CityLightsLover

    even the 129 who voted against this bill.

    How many of them still support Hoyer as majority leader, or still support  Pelosi?

    Don't kid yourself, by 2010 the energy that opposition to Bush pumped into the party will by gone.  It will be over whelmed by the negative impression created by a Democratic party which fails deal with the economy or health care effectively.  By 2012 (if not 2010) Obama's failure to deliver on his promises will cost us the congress and possibly the White House.

    And Obama will fail to deliver.  We will need strict party discipline to overcome the corporate opposition to real reform, and he just proved he can't or won't control the worst elements of the party.

    This country does not have the luxury to entertain idiocy as if it is reasonable. --Digby

    by Thought Crime on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:00:27 AM PDT

  •  Why wait? Start now in GA-12 with Regina Thomas (10+ / 0-)

    We have another potential "Donna Edwards" challenging a rabid BushDog in GA-12.

    Regina Thomas is running against John Barrow in the July 15 Democratic Primary. Time is of the essence. John Barrow, as you might know, is one of the worst Democrats in enabling Bush and his criminal regime. He voted for the Military Commissions Act, voted for Telecom Immunity, voted against habeas corpus rights and the Fourth Amendment, and generally enabled all of Bush's criminality.

    Regina Thomas on the other hand is a mainstream progressive who has served in the Georgia State Senate since 2000. Demographics of the district seem to be pretty favorable to her should she win the primary. FireDogLake has lots of good info about Regina Thomas, the district, and the race.

    Donate now if you can via ActBlue. Your donation could make all the difference in giving Obama a better Congress.

    •  Sort of a dicey district. Looks like it pulls in (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DavidW in SF, TrueBlueCT, soms

      part of Augusta and Savannah, but still went for Bush in 2004. Turnout in the metro areas would be crucial.

      She would be great though. I'll send her some cash, when I can.

      It's up to us to fill in for Carlin now. Do your part!

      by shpilk on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:06:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bush only by 1 point (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sbdenmon, Canyon Lefty

        It was a pretty tight race in 2004. Bush only beat Kerry by 1 point in 2004, and we're winning districts much redder than that.

        The district is 40+% African-American, and AAs make up well over 70% of the Democratic primary pool.  If we can win the Primary, we stand a very good chance in the General. Barrow has over $1M in the bank, but his three potential Republican challengers are in the low 5 digits. We've raised more than that for Regina in the last couple weeks via ActBlue -- over $36K now.

        If we can take out Barrow in the primary, we're golden.

  •  SCHIFF?? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peraspera, TheUnknown285

    CA-29 is a safe Dem district (he won with 63% in 2006).  California is a liberal state.  This is next to MY district.

    What an outrage.  This guy should get primaried for SURE.  And what a disappointment.  I've met him, and he held himself out to be a grassroots guy.


  •  Mark Udall (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Will more than likely be a Senator in 2010 and will no longer be in the House.

    I'm extremely disappointed in his decision on FISA and can't see myself doing anything to help his campaign before Election Day.

    Get all the latest news on the Democratic National Convention and the 2008 Elections at DemConWatch

    by Oreo on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:01:38 AM PDT

  •  Markos, Cazayoux isn't a Blue Dog? (6+ / 0-)

    Henry Cuellar isn't a Bush operative?

    But do you really think a more moderate selection in TX-22 has a chance to win? DeLay's old seat?

    Some of this is delusional, driven by frustration, no doubt.

    We have to select those seats held in districts where Democrats have a snowballs chance in winning in the first place.

    Gillibrand, for one. She's proven to be a disappointment over and over again. There's no reason in hell she cannot be replace: NY-20 has shown signs of shifting Blue.

    But Lampson? Come on. He's the best we'll get.

    You need to seriously refine this list and select those seats where a more reasonable Democrat can win in a General Election, or we are killing ourselves and diluting our power.

    It's up to us to fill in for Carlin now. Do your part!

    by shpilk on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:01:52 AM PDT

  •  Norm Dicks(Wa-06) should know better. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But all he does is deliver pork for the military bases, he is pro free-trade, he should be considered a blue dog

    Let em eat jellybeans, Let em eat cake, Let em eat shit, cause they can't make it here anymore-James McMurtry

    by Mr Stagger Lee on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:01:56 AM PDT

  •  Brian Baird Must Be Challenged Now, not in 2010 (5+ / 0-)

    WA-03 Baird is on Open Left's Bush Dog list, he voted for the surge, he just voted against the constitution.  His primary challenger, Cheryl Crist, is a solid progressive.  The primary is two months away.  Stop Baird NOW.  I have five diaries on him.

  •  I don't get it... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mlk, jj32, TheUnknown285

    A lot of these candidates were backed by DailyKos and Blue Majority the first time around...Zack Space, Kirsten Gillibrant, Stephanie Herseth, Melissa Bean, Chris Carney, Patrick Murphy, Heath Shuler, etc. "Sorry, you're not our friends anymore! Buh-bye!"

    The Next First Lady: Michelle Obama or Budweiser Barbie? The choice is yours.

    by PerfectStormer on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:03:22 AM PDT

    •  Lampson too... (0+ / 0-)

      Odd twists and turns politics takes.

    •  some of these folks are the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Thomas Twinnings, SpamNunn

      'best we can hope for' in deep red districts. Lampson, and Herseth are two ..

      Gillibrand is way outside where NY-20 is, she's way to the right. I don't know enough about the others, but we need to analyze each district and see what is happening before we flush people like Lampson and Herseth .. places where a more moderate Democrat will be crushed.

      It's up to us to fill in for Carlin now. Do your part!

      by shpilk on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:09:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We were in "more Democrats" mode (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Thomas Twinnings, divineorder

      Now we are shifting.

      Incidentally, of your list above, the only two that got any site endorsements were Herseth and Murphy.

      •  Apparently we're in election-losing mode (0+ / 0-)

        Your putting up this diary in mid-November would make sense, based on your strategy.  But you still want these people to win in 2008 -- right? -- so that we can have primary challenges to them in 2010.

        Now, think of the message you've just sent to the flock.  "These people suck.  We want them out of Congress.  But, oh, by the way, do rouse yourself to vote for them and for Obama (for whom some of them will have reverse coattails) this year."

        You've stepped on your own message, Markos.  We're not in the 2010 cycle yet, and you've undermined our efforts in the 2008 cycle.  We should make it clear right now that Hoyer is a marked man -- that is a reasonable goal and it's already past time -- and tell the rest that we'll settle scores after the election.

        This FISA vote was rotten, but it was not legalizing torture or invading Iran.  You're being swept up in the emotions of the moment and I seriously doubt  that you're going to act in accord with these threats from here forward.  Or do you want to take back all that rooting for Cazayoux and Childers a few weeks ago?

        John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.

        by Seneca Doane on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:58:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Heh, primary Herseth Sandlin? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Now that would be a long strange trip for the site...

    But honestly there is no part of this country where being pro illegal spying is a "gotta vote for it" issue. This isn't somthing you can pass of by the fact they're from a certain area.

    I doubt it'll be Herseth, but we sure need to start cracking some more heads.

    I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's. - Mark Twain

    by Windowdog on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:03:30 AM PDT

  •  I've lived in Lampson's district (9+ / 0-)

    for 15 years and I'm not sure he has any choice.

    I'd say he's barely even a D, but I still prefer him to the previous (Congressman Tom Delay R-Bastard).

    Running a true progressive D in this District is probably not a winning option.

    It's the fascism, stupid!

    by lastman on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:03:50 AM PDT

  •  Focus on Blue Dog types in deep Blue Districts (14+ / 0-)

    There is no reason why a Democratic district needs to be represented by someone so completely out of step with it.  

    Take Brian Baird.  Super surge defender, sellout on telecom immunity, and in a D+10 district.  That guy needs a primary to either get rid of him or stiffen his spine.

    John McCain: Healthcare for kids? Not in the Bush-McCain America.

    by bosdcla14 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:03:59 AM PDT

    •  exactly...him and Hoyer ...yes (4+ / 0-)

      Childers and Cazayoux -no unless you are going to educate the electorate and make them stop listening to Faux news.

    •  Schiff (8+ / 0-)

      Deep blue.  Heart of Los Angeles.


    •  Excellent example. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ferg, peraspera, soms

      We need to refine this list.

      It's up to us to fill in for Carlin now. Do your part!

      by shpilk on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:10:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Better read some history (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Take Brian Baird.  Super surge defender, sellout on telecom immunity, and in a D+10 district.  That guy needs a primary to either get rid of him or stiffen his spine.

      A statement like this bespeaks almost total ignorance of WA-03. This District has plenty of conservative voters, including rural Democrats, and sends some of the hardest-right crazies in WA to the State Legislature. Only 10 years ago WA-03 was represented by Linda Smith, as right-wing a House member as WA has had.

      Smith beat Baird in a squeaker in 1996 and Baird vowed that if he lost ever again, it wouldn't be because he was outworked. Smith got a fat head in 1998 and thought she could take out Patty Murray in the Senate race. Her fundamentalist views did not play well in a statewide race and she was deservedly trounced.

      Baird, meanwhile, crisscrossed the district relentlessly and rolled up a 10-point win over far-right blowhard State Senator Don Benton, who is still polluting the atmosphere in Olympia.

      Baird does more constituent outreach than several other House members in this state put together, and flies home every weekend to meet the voters.

      His position on the war sucks. His vote on FISA sucks. I don't like them any more than most people here do. But he will face the voters and look them in the eye regardless.

      No one is going to beat him in a primary, that's just a pipe dream. This is a largely rural District that is +10 only because of Brian Baird, and Democrats who oppose his positions don't seriously have any choice but to work with him and try to change his mind.

      Primary those Democrats who there is a chance to beat. Baird isn't one of them, and all such efforts would be futile. He's too good a campaigner.

      "Lash those traitors and conservatives with the pen of gall and wormwood. Let them feel -- no temporising!" - Andrew Jackson to Francis Preston Blair, 1835

      by Ivan on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:04:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  WA-03 Will Support a More Progressive Leader... (0+ / 0-)

        ...than Baird.  Smith entered in the '94 wave, and her stay was brief and exceptional.  History proves that, even if WA-03 is not bright blue.

        •  Knock yourself out, then (0+ / 0-)

          As far as I'm concerned you have a better chance of flapping your arms and flying to the moon. Political reality is usually something other than the fulfillment of someone's fond hopes.

          "Lash those traitors and conservatives with the pen of gall and wormwood. Let them feel -- no temporising!" - Andrew Jackson to Francis Preston Blair, 1835

          by Ivan on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:25:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Nope (0+ / 0-)

        Try D+0.

        Manufactured political distractions, you are officially on notice.

        by David Jarman on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:22:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  So Baird determined their presidential voting? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        James Kresnik

        That's how partisan breakdown is determined.  So if these "conservatives" are voting for Al Gore and John Kerry, that's conservatism we can believe in!  I, for one, have never been a big believer in endorsements, and thus any claim that Baird somehow swayed his wingnut-voting constituents to vote for Gore and Kerry seems pretty farfetched.  

        However, your comments about him being a strong campaigner are good points, and he did face his constituents after his about-face to pro-surge.  

        Any person is going to have good points and bad points, so maybe Baird isn't the perfect candidate to primary, but it isn't nearly as cut and dried as you're making it out to be.  

        John McCain: Healthcare for kids? Not in the Bush-McCain America.

        by bosdcla14 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 04:51:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  So what? (3+ / 0-)

    More House Democrats voted against this abomination than voted for it.

    As I have learned as a citizen, "voting" is no longer enough.  I would say the same to the dems who voted against this bill or will vote against it.  It's not enough.

    A Leader Without Followers Is Just A Guy Taking A Walk

    by gooderservice on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:04:45 AM PDT

    •  amen to that! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Woo hoo!  We should be so proud of our house dems: they didn't unanimously roll over.  

      Hell, with these imbeciles, we're only a few steps away from cannibalism.  I bet if Bush put forward a pro-cannibalism program, the dem's'd go for it.

      (-8.00,-7.85) "Jesus Christ was the first nonviolent revolutionary." --S. Stills

      by bubbanomics on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:09:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I wonder WHAT Bush and the repubs would want... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        that the Congressional dems felt was so egregious that they would actually FIGHT against it -- not just vote against it, but FIGHT it.

        They should be a person:  Stand up, fight against it... truly.  If they lose, they lose, but at least they tried.  

        A Leader Without Followers Is Just A Guy Taking A Walk

        by gooderservice on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:37:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I've got one to watch who hasn't even won yet (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I'm going to stay out of the Bachmann - Tinklenberg race for now--we've got no choice but to vote for Tinklenberg, the dem nominee (MN-06). but this guy, who recently got the official endorsement of the Blue Dogs and emailed everyone bragging about it, is as far as I can tell a lieberman in the making. He bashes dems when it's fashionable, he's prolife, etc, etc. After he's elected, he's going to be my special project (unless he gets a personality transplant...). During the recent primary I met numerous rabid supporters of his who seemed unaware of his, er, issues. I imagine some of them will be quite surprised at what they get.

  •  I totally disagree (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I think people in this community has it all wrong. We should not be upset if telecom companies get immunity because they were try to help the country. Remember that when this start that Mr Bush was very very popular right after 9-11 so they believe the president when he said it was legal. So I feel that the debate should be whether the Bush Admin should be charged with a crimes not the Telecom Companies

  •  Best front page post in weeks. (4+ / 0-)

    Thank you.

    When McCain talks he sounds like an evil Mr. Rogers.

    by clonecone on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:08:57 AM PDT

    •  I agree. Exactly the right medicine for despair. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TheUnknown285, divineorder

      Well done, Kos.

      "More AND BETTER Democrats."

      The second part is just as important, and it will be increasingly possible if we work hard.  

      Let's roll up our sleeves.  We're in this for the long haul, and that alone will give many Democrats pause before they capitulate to the Mr. 28%-types again.

      JOHN McCAIN = George W. Bush's 3rd term.

      by chumley on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:14:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  already on it (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Pat Murphy's actually in a tough race right now against a Gooper.

    Too bad about that FISA bill, because I intend to levy an attack on him in every single DL bulletin.  We have 800 or so members.  they're not happy right now.

  •  leave matheson (UT-02) alone - thanks n/t (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poliscizac, jj32, Pragmaticus, soms
  •  Melissa Bean just sent me a letter gloating (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheUnknown285, JDog42

    About her excellent work for me in Congress. By giving up the constitution to save AT&T

    I'll vote for Billy Goat before I vote for that traitor again!

    Great...the govt won't even stay out of my virtual bedroom...

    by lostmypassword on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:09:30 AM PDT

  •  I see Brian Baird on that list. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Now I'm glad that I'm supporting his challenger Cheryl Crist. Perhaps ActBlue should remove Baird from its directory.

  •  my letter to Dutch Ruppersberger: (2+ / 0-)

    Be ready for a primary challenge, next time around. I supported your candidacy, but you have seriously misrepresented my interests with your vote to capitulate to a minority-party, lame-duck administration on retroactive immunity for lawbreakers.

    This will not stand; you shall be history, ASAP.

  •  Why would you ever want to do this? (4+ / 0-)

    Not all of these people will get or even deserve primaries, but this vote certainly puts a bulls eye on their district. If we can field enough serious challengers, and if we repeat the Donna Edwards and Joe Lieberman stories a few more times, well then, our elected officials might have no choice but to be more responsive.

    Or, they could run as Independents and beat progressive candidates who win in light turn out primaries, a la Ned Lamont, or lose to moderate Republicans.   Purity, for purity's sake, is madness.  That's a mighty narrow tent you have there, Kos.


    Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.

    by SpamNunn on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:10:07 AM PDT

    •  Lieberman Was a Special Case (4+ / 0-)

      He had name recognition and popularity in the state that made an independent run feasible.

      And this is NOT purity for purity's sake.  I am a huge pragmatist.  This is smart politics and accountability.


      •  That, and he effectively ran as the Repubs' (3+ / 0-)

        candidate, since they abandoned their own in favor of him.

        Lieberman won with a combination of almost all the Repubs and some low-info Dems. Won't happen in most cases, since the Repubs will field a candidate of their own, rather than use the beaten former Dem as a proxy.

        And isn't this defeatist? It assumes that if an incumbent is primaried, that the primary winner has negligible chance of winning?

      •  YES! (2+ / 0-)

        You don't see the Republicans whining about this! If a Republican manages to win a primary and they don't think he's "conservative enough" they say "screw it" and don't support him.

        They scream and yell and raise bloody hell whenever a party leader says anything they find offensive. Penn. Sen. Arlan Spector says that "there will not be a litmus test for Supreme Court Justices" in the Senate Judiciary Committee and WHAM! POW!

        The right wing goes NUTS and launches an immediate huge campaign to strip him of his committee chairmanship because of a perceived opposition to Bush's effort to pack the Court with extremist loons like Alito.

        Spector backs down and mumbles an apology like a whipped dog. Color me impressed. You didn't hear one PEEP out of Spector for the rest of the Bush administration except "Thank you Sir! May I please have another!"

        We need to beat these fools up once in an while and put the FEAR into them so they won't DARE betray us on issues of supreme importance like war, the Constitution, and health care.

    •  Example: Arcuri, Mike (NY-24) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Outside of Ithaca, this District is like the backwoods of Kentucky.  It's Children of the Corn country.   Lots of poverty, but still very conservative.  He has to vote the way he votes.   Run Jon Hall (NY-19) there, who has a District that votes like Westchester County, and he will get crushed.   Careful, please!

      Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.

      by SpamNunn on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:25:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Peterson, Colin (MN-07) (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Shameful job on FISA, sir.   Complete cowardice.  

    You are in our sights, Rep. Peterson.

    We're starting the groundwork for a strong challenger here in MN. even now.

    Serve the Constitution, or get ready to be replaced.  You are not Congressman-For-Life, believe it or not.

    JOHN McCAIN = George W. Bush's 3rd term.

    by chumley on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:11:34 AM PDT

  •  Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow... (0+ / 0-)

    So 2010 is going to be the year we pivot from taking control of our government, to holding out accountable.

    Of course, this takes more than just bitching about your frustrations on a blog, damning a whole party for the actions of a minority more scared of Mr. 28% than of protecting the Constitution they swore to protect. This takes hard work. But now is the time to start.

    That all sounds great, but it will definitely be much harder, if not impossible, for some people, including me.  Right now I am NOT of the mindset of doing more than voting in November, and maybe giving money to a candidate who really, really, really impresses me.  

    That could change, but right now I'm beyond demoralized and angry; I'm disgusted and ambivalent.  

    A Leader Without Followers Is Just A Guy Taking A Walk

    by gooderservice on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:13:31 AM PDT

  •  HOYER should be on the list n/t (1+ / 0-)

    This country does not have the luxury to entertain idiocy as if it is reasonable. --Digby

    by Thought Crime on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:14:18 AM PDT

  •  There are a few unfortunately we just can't (0+ / 0-)

    Anyone who is in a very safe democratic seat should definitely primaried. Those in the south probably not

  •  Kos, you're going to far. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poliscizac, SpamNunn, pinguin

    these are people from conservative districts, and that likely demands them voting conservatively. Also, dividing the party in an election year will almost certainly results in a loss of seats.

  •  Well, that's a lot! (0+ / 0-)

    That's too many to primary and have any oomph behind our challenges.  I think it better to put more effort into fewer fights.

    A while back, I made a list of Democrats in safe Democratic seats who voted for a 'blank check' for Bush:

    I've got a little list

    I think a really strong effort against, say 20 congresspeople has a better chance of being noticed and of working than anything on this scale

    Just my opinion

  •  Steny Hoyer, Steny Hoyer, Steny Hoyer. (4+ / 0-)

    Give him a run for his money, and the rest will get the message.  It won't result in ideological purity, but it will definitely  yield some respect.

  •  I humbly suggest a different approach (5+ / 0-)

    Kos, first you say this:

    So you're angry about the Democratic capitulation? Don't take it out on the party.

    Which I agree with.

    But then you say this:

    Don't expect help from the local party establishment, they'll close ranks. So tap into alternate infrastructures.

    Which, while accurate, doesn't really get to the crux of the issue.  The local party infrastructure in many states, like mine, can't endorse in primaries, per the party's own rules.

    Here's my suggestion, and a slight promotion for a panel I'm on at Netroots Nation this year.  Starting running yourself...for party office like those party establishment people.  If we want long term change in the party, change that has to work its way naturally through the party over the course of many years (like the conservatives did in the Republican Party), then we need activists to step up and work WITHIN the party, moreso than primary challenges that may or may not work.

    That way, come 20 years from now, we won't need to worry about primary challenges, because we'll have created the structure within the party that promotes the candidates and elected officials we seek.

    Let's see...the Republican Party, or my eternal soul? -- Rep. Wayne Gilchrest, R-MD

    by wmtriallawyer on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:21:04 AM PDT

    •  Isn't that what Obama did? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wmtriallawyer, klizard

      Saw the problems and decided the best way to make real change was to go to law school and get himself into a position to work from the inside?

      That being said, I do agree with Kos that we need to think into the future, and two years out is not too far at all.

      We do need to support the good efforts of our elected Democrats, but we also need to immediately jump on them when they break their promises or make stooopid decisions.

      I don't think we'll be successful long-term if we don't do both.

  •  What bugs me... (0+ / 0-)

    ... is the number of people on that list who are not Blue Dogs. What's their excuse?

    "Mom, baseball, apple pie, and a unified Democratic juggernaut.

    by Purplepeople on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:22:12 AM PDT

  •  Make that five Blue Dogs (0+ / 0-)

    Bill Foster (IL-14) pretty much belongs to that group, and he voted nay. I still say we should primary his ass, though, for his stupid stance on a national ID card.

  •  Why would I want... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    to organize a political challenge against Bart Gordon?    Okay, so he made one vote that I don't agree with.  But it's the house.  The Senate is the great equalizer and I put my effort into electing Dems there in TN not trying to challange a great Dem in a Red District.  Bart's been too good for my district, too good for my state in helping elect and reelect Dems.  For you to condemn him for one vote is outrageous and I'm sorry but I must disagree.  I can't speak for the others because I dn't know them.  But I assure you, Bart's a good man and a good Democrat, and if I have a problem with him I'll call him, cause I know he'll answer.  Thanks for your time.

    "Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home. - Good Omens"

    by Tru Blue on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:22:48 AM PDT

  •  You Really Think (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poliscizac, Philosopher

    I worked for Joe Donnelly in the In-02. He beat the incumbnent Republican and ran a great campaign.  Yeah, Bush helped a lot.

    I live in a libral district, my guy is going to win no matter what.

    You really think a flaming liberal is going to win in rural Indiana.

    Dream on.

    Donnelly won and we took back the House.  Defeat him and you'll probably send a Repbublican back in that seat.

    This County is not Daily Kos, I hate to break it to you.

    And 99% of the Country even knows what FISA means.

  •  A fish rots from the head; a party from its feet (2+ / 0-)

    Cleaning up the party will be the main task after November, but "good" Democrats are not only defined by the issues, but also by their integrity. There is substantial corruption in the Democratic Party that has thoroughly rotted the party in some regions.

    Appalachia is one of those regions, where Democrats obtained hegemony in the 1930s (in parts) and have used that hegemony to become oligarchic and kleptocratic. You don't rack up 80 point primary margins, as Clinton did in some Appalachian counties, by clean campaigning on the issues.

    To clean up this corruption, you can't do it by targeting congressional seats, because its the local pool that's been tainted. To get at that corruption, you gotta start at the county and municipal level. The Obama-controlled party will have to identify those local areas where the party has become thoroughly corrupt, and develop a means to ensure the replacement of rotten mayors, county commissioners, and party chairmen.

    Those new local replacements will be the congressional candidates of tomorrow.

  •  Is there a "Progressive Vote Tracker" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    website where each Congress member's vote on Progresive is tracked?  I know that I can track actual votes on each piece of legislation, but would like to track votes on key Progressive issues & if someone's already doing that, it would make the fact checking a lot easier.

    My Rep. is on the list above, but isn't a blue dog.  I had thought he tended to be more progressive, but now I'd like to check his record.  

  •  What are you a moron, Kos, how dare you (7+ / 0-)

    suggest all of these people should be primaried out?  Oh wait, you said:

    Not all of these people will get or even deserve primaries, but this vote certainly puts a bulls eye on their district.

    But going by many of the comments here you would think you had never wrote that sentence.

  •  New England - true land of liberty (4+ / 0-)

    Only Jim Langevin (RI-02) voted aye.

    Congratulations to all 10 members of the Massachusetts delegation; the two freshmen in New Hampshire; Tom Allen; Patrick Kennedy; and the quartet from Connecticut: Murphy, DeLauro, Larson, and Courtney. You stuck up for the Constitution when even Barack Obama wouldn't.

  •  Some comments (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    klizard, fernan47

    First off, people are ignoring that we have a chance to head off a new blue dog. In NY-13 there is a primary between Steve Harrison, a true liberal who backs the responsible plan to get out of Iraq, and Mike McMahon, who is anti-marriage equality (though for "civil unions), favors a Constitutional Amendment to ban flag burning, and who has been equivocal about the Iraq war, telling the Conservative Party of NY that he supports the war while telling Daily Gotham he opposes it. Harrison needs help to defeat Blue Dog McMahon and then whoever the Republicans put in. You can help through my NY STate Act Blue site.

    As to Loretta Sanchez...hard for me to see her or her sister (Linda) as Blue Dogs. I was proud to help Loretta when she was first elected...replacing the insane B-2 Bob Dornan, someone so vile even Gingrich almost refused to campaign for him. Let me just say I consider Loretta and Linda Sanchez to be good folks and hope they are not challenged.

    Some of the others listed, though, are another matter, as long as it is done strategically and doesn't wind up helping Republicans.

    And one last thing. Yay NYC Dems!! Pretty much as a bloc, even the sometimes lousy Towns, they have been voting well.

  •  Rep. Sanchez and Rep. Hill are Blue Dogs? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I don't recall every being disappointed in any of their votes. to my recollection, unlike the assorted other collection of this organization, Rep. Sanchez and Rep. Hill have always voted the people powered netroots way.

    People power = LGBTQ marital rights = OBAMA '08!

    by kevinspa on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:26:51 AM PDT

  •  Frustrating sometimes ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... to be sitting here in Massachusetts/Connecticut, wishing I had a representative of my own to bitch about.

    I had Lieberman as a personal scapegoat for years, but then I moved across the border.

  •  Proud of my Congressman (0+ / 0-)

    He's not on that list. He's not in a bluer than blue district, either.

  •  Yes. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    (1)  Organize progressives online as a powerful electoral force, in which we continually educate ourselves and each other (2003-2005)

    (2)  Win back control of Congress (2006)

    (3)  Kill the republican Party as a competitive national party and elect Obama as Prez (2008)

    (4)  Bring the troops home from Iraq  (2009)

    (5)  Split the Democratic Party between its corporatists and its progressives via primary challenges (2010)

  •  We are going to take out Rep. Chandler & Herseth? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric J in MN

    I thought under the leadership of Mr. Kos, we are the only reasons they got elected in the first place and now they have turned on us? That is very ungrateful. Neither of them would have come close to winning without the people powered netroots progressive community here.

    People power = LGBTQ marital rights = OBAMA '08!

    by kevinspa on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:29:06 AM PDT

    •  they didn't perform as they were supposed to (0+ / 0-)

      so, time for them to go.

      i think.

      i never know what we're supposed to be doing as the netroots sometimes--the goalposts always change.

      Central PA Kossacks Obama: full of win! McCain: full of FAIL!

      by terrypinder on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:33:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We will await word from our leader. (0+ / 0-)

        But Rep. Chandler and Rep. Herseth should be reminded that without us in the people powered progressive community, no one in SD or KY would have ever heard of them, much less voted for them.

        People power = LGBTQ marital rights = OBAMA '08!

        by kevinspa on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:34:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i'm still trying to figure out (0+ / 0-)

          who would replace my congressman in PA-17, other then a Republican. I can't think of anyone in the current establishment or anyone among my friends who could mount a sucessful primary challenge.

          There are fairly young state representatives in the district who are Democrats but they're also Blue Dog Democrats. One has an Uzi. Not kidding. lolz.

          I don't think a progressive in the Kossack sense could win here. Liberal, maybe. Progressive, nope.

          Central PA Kossacks Obama: full of win! McCain: full of FAIL!

          by terrypinder on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:37:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Bud Cramer is retiring (0+ / 0-)

    And it is an open seat right now, for election this year, so we can't really do anything about him.

  •  Does anybody have a (0+ / 0-)

    Democratic voter registration in say anyone of Conyers voting districts. If we start a letter writeing campaign in his district that would be great,

  •  Best/Worst candidates (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IM, fernan47, sixty senate seats

    The best choices to primary would meet one or more of the following criteria:

    1. Represent a strongly democratic district. Al Wynn was a perfect example - there was no risk in losing the seat to a Republican.
    1. Member of the leadership. You only need to slay one or two giants to get some attention.
    1. Members representing districts with large numbers of minorities who are the most likely to be targeted by government overreach.
    1. Repeat offenders (for obvious reasons).

    Less good are members who:

    1. Represent very conservative districts where someone more progressive really can't win (unless they're so horrible that it wouldn't be any worse to have a Republican). I doubt, for example, there's any value in taking out Jim Matheson, even if it was possible.
    1. Have an otherwise pretty good record.
    1. Small fries -- better to go after a big fish.

    Because the netroots is somewhat limited in the kind of force we can apply, I think it's going to be more effective got target a small number of high-profile targets, rather than spreading resources too thin. In that vein, may I suggest going after Steny Hoyer, James Clyburn, Rham Emanuel and John Barrow.

    In fact, there's still an opportunity to take out John Barrow this cycle.

  •  Regardless of district shade. (0+ / 0-)

    Everyone is furious about this FISA issue. Everyone has a friend or relative in the LGBTQ community or overseas that they now fear have had their conversations recorded. Plus the fact that the dreams of millions to join a class action suit have been needlessly derailed.

    People power = LGBTQ marital rights = OBAMA '08!

    by kevinspa on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:31:29 AM PDT

  •  Donate against FISA sellouts (0+ / 0-)

    Great...the govt won't even stay out of my virtual bedroom...

    by lostmypassword on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:32:09 AM PDT


    Specifically Hoyer and Emanuel. Serious challenges to them will send shock waves throughout the entire caucus.

    Barack Obama personifies the American dream

    by Jim in Chicago on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:36:05 AM PDT

  •  I gave $$$ to Murphy and Shuler last year to help (0+ / 0-)

    get them elected.  Not again.  

  •  We the people (0+ / 0-)

    LIFE * I have lived enough of it (one year short of 8 decades) to know that I am still a pupil.

    by Luetta on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:37:04 AM PDT

  •  Holden (PA-17) (0+ / 0-)

    Tim Holden's godlike in his part of PA; I can't imagine a primary challenge there.  That said, it's an economy-ravaged district that (I think) is turning a bit bluer, so who knows...

  •  Thank you so mucb for this, Markos. (4+ / 0-)

    I think that this is one of the best posts you've ever written.  

    This is THE answer to all those wringing their hands over the last week and a half, declaring that Democrats aren't worth supporting.

  •  Also, Judiciary Committe Members (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    acquittal, Press to Digitate

    Below are the Dems currently sitting on the House Judiciary Committee who also sold out the Constitution:

    Howard Berman, CA 28th
    Brad Sherman, CA 27th*
    Luis Gutierrez, IL 4th
    Rick Boucher, VA 9th
    Adam Schiff, CA 29th   (a Blue Dog, listed above)
    Artur Davis, AL 7th

    In my view, these people ought to know better, and their votes were not only wrong, but also in direct violation of their responsibilities as members of the Judiciary Committee.

  •  Thanks Kos! This new kind of... (6+ / 0-)

    ...politics is not going to be easy.  We've got good Democrats in office, but they've been trained to 'play the game' as it's been defined for years.  In some instances they really haven't had a choice.

    But we're growing an active Democratic electorate right now that we need to nurture---teach and keep ourselves active!  That's why I appreciate this post from you today.

    We have to constantly hold our elected Democrats' feet to the fire while constantly supporting them (with money and kudos) when they do well.

    And from among our ranks will appear some of the next elected Democratic Representatives, Senators and POTUS's!

    It won't happen overnight, but this is how we'll force the new kind of politics to become the norm.

  •  Let's not eat our own and end where we were (0+ / 0-)

    Its easy to assume that all these folks come from Districts who think like Kos readers, but this isn't the real world.  A lot of these Southern Democrats have to get elected in a terrible environment and this is still a representative Democracy.  If they start voting like everyone on here would want them to, they'll have different day jobs pretty quickly.  

  •  It'll be (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    the Blue Dog to True Blue Campaign

    Bipartisanship: I'll kiss your elephant if you kiss my ass...

    by surfbird007 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:40:33 AM PDT

  •  "I do solemnly swear..." (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scrape, divineorder

    "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States."  ("Except when I'm a coward.")

    A Leader Without Followers Is Just A Guy Taking A Walk

    by gooderservice on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:40:49 AM PDT

  •  Langevin needs to be primaried (0+ / 0-)

    Langevin, Jim (RI-02).

    Rhode Island is a very blue state, I don't know why this guy is even the seat. Isn't he also pro-life?

  •  All well said, but we need organized help (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Press to Digitate

    I took the opportunity to get off the couch and be the campaign manager for a great woman in CA-41, Rita Ramirez-Dean. But she lost the primary because bad Dems (Baca) and the party establishment had all the power. She only lost by 700 votes...$5 - 10K would have made the difference by sending ONE direct mail piece. What do we do about those who don't have access to capital? Emily's List wouldn't help until she raised $70K...there are too many good candidates who die an electoral death because they can't raise money. But we should require a good candidate to only be an ATM...or else that perverts the system we're trying to change. How about a dailykos PAC? Doing this piecemeal isn't the best way to go about this, IMO.

    •  Markos, this is a follow up to (0+ / 0-)

      the conversation we had at the Udall (CO) fundraiser in SF early this year. You were right about needing money, and this will be a problem for all these candidates you're trying to inspire. I just went through this so I know the problems and want to help fix it. The DCCC isn't interested in helping small time, tier 3 candidates, but a big blog PAC could make a big difference.

      •  Plus, there should be a way for Kossacks (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Press to Digitate

        to search this site and find others who live in the same district. It would have been great to have access to all them in CA-41 when I was running. Instead I had to troll the comments of past posts on her Repub opponent (Lewis) and randomly email those people leaving comments if it was in their profile. I only found two, one of which I couldn't reach until two months before the primary (puckpady) and she was already lined up behind another candidate, who came in third. Markos, how about emailing everyone registered, asking for their emails (which can be kept private at kos world headquarters and ask people if they are willing to share their emails with people organizing in their district?  

  •  how many orange brutha & sistas (0+ / 0-)

    do i have here in 3rd district KS?  Dennis Moore voted in favor of the FISA bill.  Dennis Moore has got to go.  

    The Monty Python Dennis Moore was smarter than this guy.

    Nick Jordan is the challenger.  He gets my money.

  •  I was once HR'd for (jokingly) refering to (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Murtha as a senile old fart.

    It seems less laughable now.  F-him for this vote.

  •  This post needs to be pinned somewhere (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fernan47, politik

    You need to do a big graphic that says, "READ THIS FIRST! (and read it agan every few weeks)" and give it a permanent spot at the top of the page.

  •  I don't know much about all this primary business (0+ / 0-)

    but I think I can be more diligent about pinning down candidates on the issues before I vote for them.

  •  Im hoping to move back to Chicago next year (0+ / 0-)

    I'll have to try to move to Bean's or Emanuel's district just to help fund their challengers - or Gutierrez's!  Why the hell did he vote for it?  He used to be my Rep.  What inherent interest do the people of Chicago have in bending over for the telcos?

    I guess Jesse Junior will end up mayor after Daley now.  Sorry Luis.

    The Republicans were right about one thing - The media is irresponsible.

    by nightsweat on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:50:36 AM PDT

  •  Thanks, Kos, for naming names. n/t (0+ / 0-)

    An illusion can never be destroyed directly... SK.

    by Thomas Twinnings on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:51:30 AM PDT

  •  Why is Rahm Emanuel's name not highlighted? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sandy on Signal, klamothe
  •  Richardson - 37th is weak (0+ / 0-)

    She's a recent addition who took over the seat of Juanita Millender-McDonald in a special election where she won the primary over a large field of candidates including Jenny Oropeza who would make a good primary challenger next go round.

    Richardson hasn't been in long enough to be a solid incumbent and she has been deluged with bad press recently (some of which has gone national) about her defaulting on multiple mortgages.  

    The 37th has become an extremely strong Democratic district (after redistricting) so there really was no excuse for Richardson to vote for this FISA debacle.  She was one of the ones that hasn't received any Telco funds (at least not yet, though who knows what help she might be getting to pay off those mortgages?), but that just means someone else must be pulling her chain successfully.  

    I think Richardson would be a prime candidate for a primary challenge in 2010.

    John McCain doesn't think kids need health insurance

    by katerina on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:54:31 AM PDT

  •  Kos's most inspiring, 'how-to' and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Thomas Twinnings
    quitcherbellyachin'-and-do-something-now story!  Thanks for the great, life changing, party changing work here!
  •  Michaud a true moderate (0+ / 0-)

    Mike Michaud started out much further to the right than he's been more recently.  He's really become very responsive to his constituents.  While he still votes with big business more often than I'd like, on FISA and other constitutional issues, and on the war in Iraq, he has a very progressive record.

  •  I'm with you, Kos. (0+ / 0-)

    And I also want to see something done about redistricting. My district is so gerrymandered as to be laughable. Darrell Issa is as entrenched as they get. I support other Dems where I can, but I'd love to think we actually had a shot at kicking out losers like Issa. At least they should have the sneaking suspicion that they could lose so that they might bother to listen to their constituents.

  •  we should add the names of the house members who (0+ / 0-)

    OPPOSED any and all moves towards IMPEACHMENT.  the people, Nadler, Pelosi, Conyers JUST to name a few, had a major hand in putting us where we are today.... had they NOT stood in the way of Impeachment we may never have had this FISA FIGHT over retroactive immunity et al.

    I cannot consider the people who stood against impeaching this President as GOOD DEMOCRATS... party democrats yes... but good?   not any more.

    In NYC there is a very active group of people who have kept the pressure for impeachment UP with regards to Nadler... he has basically ignored them and NOW they are responding byt pushing for something Nadler hasnt had in decades... a credible PRIMARY CHALLENGE.  I am sad to have to include COnyers in this group that needs to be primaried but the day I watched as he ridiculed those of us who have respectfully and consistently called out to him to move on IMPECHMENT... and ridiculed us IN PUBLIC, on c-span.   it was at that moment I lost respect for John COnyers, who I now see as a PANDERER select who's job has been to keep the progressive base of the democratic party occupied with dead end hearings and calls for more amd more ANGRY emails.

    any chance we can get an organized CHEAT SHEET with those that need to be primaried listed by STATE and diostrict rather then alphebetically...  that way we can easily pick an incumbant in our own area and make them our designated 'we need BETTER democrats then you in that seat" target for 2010.

    "Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran" is NOT a coherent Mid-East Strategy Mr McCain

    by KnotIookin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:59:56 AM PDT

  •  it goes without saying that we should be cautious (0+ / 0-)

    Donna Edwards and Ned Lamont were smart choices to make. They had a legit shot at winning, and the current Dem was out of step with their district.

    So this is the long list. The list will become shorter in one year, when we see more polling, voting, and really analyze these districts.

    It's not a campaign. It's a movement. Will you stand up?

    by danthrax on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:00:20 AM PDT

  •  Ron Kind (D-WI 3) Called "Nauseating" by Madison (0+ / 0-)

    paper and was reprinted in the La Crosse Tribune yesterday.

    Our "congressman" Ron Kind has been a Bush enabler from the beginning and is one of the most shameless and nutless Dems in the House.

  •  thank you for this (0+ / 0-)

    examining this thread in even a cursory way makes it clear how complicated things get at this level downstream from the national and state level choices.  

    Personally, I like to think about Presidential and Senate races almost exclusively.  It seems like my House Reps have been excellent and unseatable in the cool districts I have lived in and the reverse in the thug districts I've lived in.  

    Part of my attitude has to do with having moved so often in my life for professional reasons.

    Those who know their local politics well are in a position to work for change exactly the way you describe.

    Go to it and stop moaning fellows. We have a proto-neo-fascist state to fight.  It ain't gonna be easy.  We have the responsibility to do it as best we can.  

    'i regret that I have but one life to give. i want more lives' Colbert ** 'you were sick, but now you're well again and there's work to do' vonnegut

    by fernan47 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:06:37 AM PDT

  •  $4,000 a head (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Now we're at a disadvantage vis a vis AT&T. We don't have the millions to pump into campaign coffers

    It didn't take millions to buy these people. According to, it took about $4,000 apiece:

    Comparing Democrats' Votes (March 14th and June 20th votes):

    Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint gave PAC contributions averaging:

    $8,359 to each Democrat who changed their position to support immunity for Telcos (94 Dems)
    $4,987 to each Democrat who remained opposed to immunity for Telcos (116 Dems)

    88 percent of the Dems who changed to supporting immunity (83 Dems of the 94) received PAC contributions from Verizon, AT&T, or Sprint during the last three years (Jan. 2005-Mar. 2008). See below for list of these 94 Dems.

    All House Members (June 20th vote:)
    Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint gave PAC contributions averaging:

    $9,659 to each member of the House voting "YES" (105-Dem, 188-Rep)
    $4,810 to each member of the House voting "NO" (128-Dem, 1-Rep)

    Could we raise $1.5 million to counter AT&T? We could.

    Should we have to? HELL NO.

  •  Funny.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jerry McNerney (CA-11)is in the "CA-11: Republican Dean Andal allegedly tied to major scandal" as the challenger, and also in this story as a 2010 primary target....
  •  Democrats won't have to lift a finger.. (0+ / 0-) get rid of these Blue Jackals.  Their Republican challengers will simply parade their votes against the Fourth Amendment about in ads to win against them next time out.

    They'll tell the whole miserable story about how AT&T gave the Democratic incumbents thousands of dollars to vote for telecom amnesty.

    And you know what?  This time they won't be spinning.

    It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. Alfred Adler

    by Quicksilver2723 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:12:34 AM PDT

  •  Now, crossreference this list with other sellouts (0+ / 0-)

    by Democrats, including the Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, the Detainee Treatment Act, the Bankruptcy Bill, The Iran Resolution, and (of course) The Iraq War Authorization.   Obviously, some of those people are no longer in congress due to retirements and whatnot, but I bet most of them are still around.   At least, by comparing these votes on all these different capitulations, we can come up with a "Capitulation Caucus".

    Then, out of that "caucus," choose the worst offenders in the most strategic districts where a progressive can mount a credible challenge and replace the current incumbent.

  •  Kos, you should be one of the candidates! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If you have to move between now and 2010 to be in right district, then 'Move on'!

    You are a perfect example of the technology savvy, Progressive netroots candidate that can help drag Congress, kicking and screaming, into the 21st Century.

    You already have a nationwide constituency here that is as large as a Congressional District; it contains many campaign professionals and legions of volunteers who would come to your aid in a heartbeat.  You understand the numbers, you can raise money, you have the digital infrastructure already in place.

    Pick the most reprehensible primary target in California (or in the National Capital Region, or Boston) where the technology community rules, and live there.  You're a digital creature; you live online, spatial location and geography are a GoogleEarth tool to you, not an important part of your environment. Where you live physically does not affect your livelihood, and would even less so as a Member of Congress.

    For the price of the moving van, you could be prepared to take on any one of a number of ossified incumbent Representatives who need to be replaced.  Find some Grampy Old Fart, and tie him to John McCain, and we'll net-bomb his ass back to the farm on your behalf.

    Last night, after Sen. Dodd's [Awesome!] FISA speech, CSPAN-2 went to coverage of committee hearings on the Universal Service Fund; an issue of telecom arcana (like "Net Neutrality") that a bunch of clueless luddites on the committee just cant get their analog brains around. To cope with the emerging trancendental digital environment, America needs internet pioneers in Congress, its that simple.

    Kos, you, yourself, are as attractive, personable, articulate, intelligent, and charismatic as anyone else you might "recruit" to run for Congress instead.  Take the plunge.  We've got your back.

    "Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice; Moderation, in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue." - AuH2O

    by Press to Digitate on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:20:35 AM PDT

  •  no, no, no (0+ / 0-)

    This issue is not as clear cut as you make it seem and some of these are very good members of Congress who we need to increase our majority and take back the country.

    "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country"

    by Barth on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:27:36 AM PDT

    •  Snark tag? Or, duuhh, isn't "taking back (0+ / 0-)

      the country" kind of the purpose - of both the diary AND the purge,  stupid

      •  OK, since I am so stupid, let me ask you this (0+ / 0-)

        how would running a primary opponent against say, John Hall (oddly, my Congressman and the first Democrat I have had to represent me in the House since I moved out of NYC in 1988) help to take back the country since almost any other Democrat, certainly one who is further to the left than Congressman Hall, would lose?

        Please explain this to me since I am obviously too stupid to understand these complicated things.

        (I love name calling.  It is so much more effective than reasoned argument....)

        "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country"

        by Barth on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 05:21:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Why Patrick Murphy (PA-08)? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  Don't hold back! (0+ / 0-)

    When these DINOs get far enough to the right, we should primary them and if that fails, third-party them.  The time to do that is when we can afford to lose a few seats, if you can really count those as losses to the Democratic Party (I guess you could call them losses "in name only").  Knock off a few this way and maybe they'll start being a bit more responsive to those on the left!

    It's really hard to get rid of a well-financed Rep who is also likely well-connected with his local Democratic party in a primary.  However, if we can demonstrate that if they ignore the progressive wing of the party, they may be able to win the primary but will lose the general.  

    --- Democratic mantra for '08: It's the EVERYTHING, stupid!

    by KingBolete on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:29:03 AM PDT

  •  Get rid of Howard Berman! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    For too long this guy has been running virtually uncontested in CA 28, I swear he's like Lieberpuke Lite. For cripes sake, somebody primary this guy already!

    •  agreed (0+ / 0-)

      As I recall Howard Berman's brother was the consultant hired by the California legislature to come up with the new gerrymandered districts back in 2001.

      He and Brad Sherman got into a little fight back then after the maps were released and it shifted the bulk of the SF Valley's Latino population into Sherman's district, Sherman worried he'd face a primary challenge. The Bermans backed down and split the population in two, deluding it. I believe the The Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund challenged the map in court as a violation of the rights of latino voters. They didn't win it.

      But in the end Berman's district is majority latino and he represents Van Nuys. Could be easy to recruit one of the San Fernando Valley's many latino pols to challenge him. It's just a matter of money, I suppose. Howard Berman is endeared to Hollywood Studios and Recording industry as he for decades has carried their water. They don't call him the "Congressman FOR Hollywood" for nothing.

  •  How do we make sure they are made aware... (0+ / 0-)

    ...of our intentions, repeatedly, of course, so that they may learn to behave in the next 2 years and not sabotage Obama's mandate.

    The United States of America--the only country in the world where being educated and cultured actually *lowers* your social and political standing.

    by LordMike on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:35:03 AM PDT

  •  Patrick Murphy (D-PA) has an honest face. (0+ / 0-)

    It's too bad he decided to sell out the Constitution for the phone companies during his first term in Congress.

  •  I couldn't agree more... (0+ / 0-)

    I also wanted to type f*ck yeah (wait, I just did), but here's my problem: I live in San Francisco and Nancy Pelosi is my representative.

    Back in '06, I was never prouder to be a Democrat, knowing (or thinking I knew) that Pelosi would be the next Speaker of the House. Last Friday was the nadir for me as a Democrat. I don't want to leave the party, of course, and I'm right there with Kos about reforming the party by getting rid of the non-progressives, but what can we do in Pelosi's case to make her more accountable?

  •  Plan on leaving Moore and Boyda alone (0+ / 0-)


    1. The only two democrats from KS, in very-close-GOP districts and
    1. Moore and Boyda supported FISA because 1/2 their constituents are GOPers (they won/win by cross-over votes) and
    1. They both have the largest employers in the area -- Sprint and Embarq.  Its naively superfluous to believe they will ever vote to negatively impact those firms.

    So, no - leave them alone.

    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -- Mark Twain.

    by dcrolg on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:45:13 AM PDT

  •  Take Patrick Murphy off the list, please. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Adam B

    He's 100% on our side when it comes to the Iraq war and other issues.

  •  Great diary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FyodorFish, dclawyer06

    A wonderful productive response to the anger around FISA

  •  You know President Obama will oppose us. (0+ / 0-)

    He needs to get a big agenda through Congress, and will help the incumbants wherever he can unles sthere are some pretty extenuating circumstances.

    Considering he backed the FISA "compromise" (except for tepidly opposing telecom immunity) -- he'll fight us.

  •  Blue Dogs not the problem (0+ / 0-)

    The Blue Dogs mostly represent R districts. Having them held by Blue Dogs mean you get 50 or 60% agreement with your party instead of being held red and get 15%. The real problem are the people from places like Chicago, San Francisco, NYC that voted for FISA. They are the ones that need to be primary-ed (Gutierrez, Emanuel, Pelosi).

    •  Disagree. A lot of people vote R only b/c (0+ / 0-)

      they don't know wtf the D's stand for. Quick, what was Kerry's platform?
      Note Bush's mantra - "You know where I stand" Note the lesser man won. Lesson learned - "Better the devil you know than the one you don't".
      We need to draw the ideological line in the sand and give people a clear choice. If they choose the R's, so be it. It's called democracy.  

      •  I disagree with you. I live in one of those (0+ / 0-)

        I understand the FISA concern but why must everyone in our party think alike?  If we start tossing out Democrats for being concervative we can kiss our majorities goodbye.  

        Look at what the conservative base did to McCain.  They  didn't like what moderate Reps. stood for so the tossed him aside and are still hesitant to touch him 8 years later.

        I hope FISA gets stalled and I hope immunity is at least stripped from it, but if not, I'll take my lumps and move on to the next fight.  Tossing out what 100 names above, 200, won't help a darn thing in a Democratic agenda.

        "Dear Mr. President, there are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot." - Grandpa Simpson

        by ourhispanicvoices on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:46:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Add Laura Richardson (0+ / 0-)

    Not for the FISA vote, but because she's been defrauding lenders, and getting sweetheart deals on real estate.  She's an embarassment.

  •  Blue Districts (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I went through the list and found 30 reps in districts with a PVI of D+9 or more.  I don't necessarily think that all the of the reps on the list need to be primaried (for instance, Nita Lowey NY-18 who represents the district next to mine, is usually a very good Democrat, and I'm sure there are others) and there are certainly reps in some less blue districts where primaries would be warranted, but I figured it'd be helpful.

    NY-05 +18
    CA-43 +13
    NV-01 +9
    CA-28 +25
    FL-03 +16
    NC-01 +9
    FL-11 +11
    MO-05 +12
    SC-06 +11
    NY-07 +28
    AL-07 +17
    IL-05 +18
    NY-17 +21
    TX-09 +21
    IL-04 +31
    CA-36 +11
    FL-23 +29
    MD-05 +9
    MI-05 +12
    RI-02 +13
    IL-03 +10
    NY-18 +10
    NY-04 +9
    NY-06 +38
    CA-08 +36
    TX-16 +9
    CA-37 +27
    NJ-13 +23
    CA-10 +9  
    MS-02 +10

  •  Susan Davis not even on the list. (0+ / 0-)

    It figures.  She's so ineffectual that no one outside of my district even knows she exists.  Sheesh!

  •  A Word of Caution (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    First of all, I would warn everybody about becoming too reactionary.  I don't know if a couple of bad votes by an otherwise good Democrat is enough to have them primaried out.  Every politician inevitably cast a vote that pisses each one of us off.  If there is a consistent pattern of unreliability, a la Joe Lieberman, I'm all for it.

    Second, Dems are lucky to hold some districts at all.  I live in the Florida panhandle and, believe me, blue dog Alan Boyd is not my favorite Congressman.  But, as I have argued with my liberal friends in Tallahassee who think he should be the second coming of Dennis Kucinich, Boyd is one of the few Dems who could win in that very conservative district.  If you go any more progressive, you can kiss it goodbye.

    While I agree with the general premise of this post, we have to be careful not to hurt ourselves in the process.

    We need to approach this problem with a scalpel, not a chainsaw.

    Depends: The Change John McCain Needs

    by Kevinole on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:33:26 PM PDT

  •  Thanks, Markos. told my wife how lucky (0+ / 0-)

    we (liberals) are that the most important Dem site has turned hard left.
    Would you change the "purpose" declaration to read "To Elect Progressive Democrats." And loudly announce the change.)

  •  Why wait? Shanker in AZ 01 NOW! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Why wait until 2010 when we have an opportunity to elect good Democrats this time around? I urge everyone to support Howard Shanker for Arizona’s Distinct One Congressional seat. He has proven himself to be an effective, courageous warrior against corrupt powers that be. Although the party mainliners are supporting a wishy-washy Democrat instead of Shanker, Howard is rapidly becoming the people’s choice.  Howard Shanker has a dedicated, fast-growing, enthusiastic group of grass root supporters because he is a superb, smart, tough candidate who won’t sell out.

    •  Progessive for Shanker (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Howard Shanker is much more progressive than his (leading) opponent -- Ann Kirkpatrick. She'll be just another "Blue Dog". Howard will fight for the people of this district, just as he has for the last 15 years!

      Go Howard.

  •  Seeing the Bigger Picture (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I urge Kossacks to see the big picture while looking at this list of people who voted "the wrong way" on a single bill.  Politics is the art of compromise with people who view things differently than you do; I'm sure that some of those representatives on this list may have voted "the right way" on other bills of great concern to many in the netroots community.  Let's "pick our battles" carefully.  Remember that a few select victories can have an impact on the behavior of those not challenged, while numerous divisive primaries can constitute a significant opportunity to those who oppose progressive positions on a broad range of policies and issues.  Challenging every representative on this list may wind up biting off our nose to spite our face.

  •  I agree with your strategy (0+ / 0-)

    and most of your argument. I just don't agree that it's not "the party." We have systemic rot. And that doesn't mean that I'm not considering the "good guys."

    I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere ~ Thomas Jefferson

    by valadon on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:54:17 PM PDT

  •  I hope they all get (0+ / 0-)

    primary opponents.  However, be careful of what you wish for, Kos.  2 years into Obama's first term.  Could be dangerous.  Just sayin'.

  •  Act Now (0+ / 0-)

    If nothing else, donate to the Blue America PAC run by Glenn Greenwald and (I believe) Jane Hamsher.

  •  one minor error in the diary (0+ / 0-)

    . We don't have the millions to pump into campaign coffers

    We don't?

    Who's funding Obama in $10 and $20 and $100 contributions, space aliens from Zeta Reticuli?

    What we don't have is a fundraising platform of our own like the Obama campaign has built yet. We now know enough of the nuts and bolts of how Obama did it to build our own, and it's a resource closed to anyone to the political right of Obama.

    Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

    by alizard on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:53:35 PM PDT

  •  Only primary safe Democrats (0+ / 0-)

    I'll never give one red cent to a challenger of a Democrat in a marginal seat.  Fact is, we need some of those evil, terrible Blue Dogs to even keep our majority, at least right now.

    I can tell you right now, Boucher, Lincoln Davis, Peterson, McIntyre, and Carney couldn't win their districts if they were real liberals.  It may suck, but it's also true.

    All your vote are belong to us.

    by Harkov311 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 03:09:50 PM PDT

  •  Carrot too (0+ / 0-)

    we should work on voter registration in the 4 districts of the blue dogs who voted right. Not endorse them in any way, just do voter registration. This says: you can do what you have to do to get elected, so long as you don't stab us when the chips are down.

    Honestly, I think that the war is more important than FISA - but I would give a D in a tipsy seat a pass on the war, precisely because they can make a real argument that the voters are watching. On FISA, our side, the telecoms, and the Bush administration are the only ones who care, so no free passes.

  •  AZ CD-1 (0+ / 0-)

    Don't add another "Blue Dog" Democrat by voting for Ann Kirkpatrick. Howard Shanker is the progressive choice. And he's a whole lot better at campaigning, too, which we need in this hotly contested district.

  •  Wow , Markos , this is why you're a "daily" fix ! (0+ / 0-)
  •  hey Kos - Any books on organizing you rec? (0+ / 0-)

    You want to do something?

    Need a book like organizing for dummies...

  •  Keep in mind that many of these Democrats come (0+ / 0-)

    from heavily Republican districts where candidates better suited for CA or NY won't sell.

  •  House Intelligence Committe (0+ / 0-)

    Why on earth are 5 of the 12 Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee Blue Dogs?  Teamed with the 9 Republicans, doesn't that slant things in the moderate/conservative direction?

  •  While I disagree with the vote (0+ / 0-)

    We're very fast to turn on those who've been greatly talked up here, are we not?  A quick scan of the list and I picked out Jerry McNerny, Patrick Murphy, Nick Lampson, Joe Sestak and Ciro Rodriguez, all of whom IIRC were on the Blue Majority list.  Tim Mahoney rings a bell too for some reason.

    I also see Tom Udall- again IIRC, I was under the impression Daily Kos was supporting his bid for senate (I've been busy finding a job and can't remember).  Does this end that support?

    I'm not sure this vote should decide their fates.

  •  Some obvious targets (0+ / 0-)

    Pelosi, Lipinski, Boren

    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - George W Bush

    by jfern on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:12:42 AM PDT

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