The Gas-Tax "Holiday" Revisited

John McCain still hasn't given up on his idea of a gas-tax "holiday:

The Republican told an estimated 1,200 people at Union Station that suspending the federal tax on gasoline and diesel fuel would help put millions of dollars into the hands of businesses and lower-income Americans.

And he's still the only one who thinks it's a good idea:

The political vision of a summer gas tax holiday died a quick death in Congress, losing to a view that federal excise taxes on gasoline and diesel fuel will have to go up if they go anywhere.  [...]

Depriving the 52-year-old Highway Trust Fund of $9 billion at a time when it is heading into the red doomed the notion of a gas tax holiday in Congress.

The chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, Rep. James Oberstar, and the chairman of the highway subcommittee, Rep. Peter DeFazio, presented fellow lawmakers with a list of how many jobs and how much money each state would lose. It ranged from $30 million and 1,000 jobs in Vermont to $664 million and 23,000 jobs in California.

But still McCain presses on. Never mind that "only about $27 billion in federal money will be available next year to states and local governments for new infrastructure investment even though the current highway act calls for spending $41 billion a year," McCain thinks he's latched onto something that will resonate with the public, so damn the consequences.

•  McCain is a Republican.

  They never give up bad ideas.

  See Bush presidency.

  by filmgeek83 on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:49:04 AM PDT

  •  U.S. already has lowest gas taxes...

    of any industrialized nation.

    

    Congress should actually be establishing a floating gas tax, so if retail prices go down, the federal gas tax rate goes up.

    More here.

    by Richard Cranium on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:04:06 AM PDT

    •  This could create supply and demand problems,

      since the price is supposed to mediate the two, and that is essentially a price control.  Although it creates price stability, there is the issue of gas surpluses and shortages, which could create coordination problems and add to costs.  However, the gas tax should be raised enormously in lieu of a carbon tax, which I would assume we would agree on.  The myriad reasons to do so are here:

      http://www.carbontax.org/

      by drksdeofthemoonx on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 01:14:38 PM PDT

  •  WHERE IS THE BILL?

    Would it kill the campaign press corps to point out that, as a sitting member of Congress, McCain does not have to settle for "calling" for a gas-tax holiday?

    As a United States Senator, McCain actually enjoys the privilege of creating legislation to make his gas-tax holiday happen.  He doesn't have to sit and wait for someone else to do it.  If he really thinks it's a good idea, he can try to do it himself!

    But that might require him to show up for work, which he hasn't done since April.

    And pointing all this out might mean that some reporter might lose his cherished access to McCain aboard Straight Talk One.  Can't have that.  Much better to allow McCain to continue demagoguing on something that serves no useful purpose beyond a town-hall meeting applause line.

    by UncommonSense on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:34:08 AM PDT

    •  I'm sure he knows

      he would be laughed off the floor of the Senate, and the bill wouldn't have one co-sponsor.  That would be more embarassing than bringing this idea to the public and having them yawn, as he can be fairly sure the corporate media won't show his audience's indifference.

      by SueDe on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 12:33:49 PM PDT

    •  That might actually require him to show up...

      ...to work.

      Which, considering he hasn't cast a single vote in the senate since APRIL, is kind of unlikely.

      by DawnG on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 02:17:24 PM PDT

•  Given the way he's gone regarding...

  ...his other policy stances, by October he'll be saying he was never in favor of suspending the gasoline tax.

  by Meteor Blades on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:49:34 AM PDT

  •  This will be especially true if something

    awful happens to our transportation infrastructure before the election. How quickly they forget how necessary some taxes are. Just so people can save a few pennies here and there, they're willing to risk people's lives just to score some cheap pseudo-populist points.

    

    by banjolele on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:15:48 AM PDT

    •  This is a powerful poster.

      If Clinton's name weren't on it, I'd staple it to a slat and carry it around with me.

      by SueDe on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:58:57 AM PDT

    •  But you forget

      that government is the enemy. <snark>

      Wish I could put these up all over South Bend, IN where the infrastructure is crumbling and the Republicans' home grown terrorism of disinvestment is lowering standards of living daily.

      by TNThorpe on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 05:06:03 PM PDT

•  Already had "Constitution holiday", "rule of

  law holiday", and "telling of truth holiday" and look how well those turned out.  

  by Cartoon Peril on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:49:49 AM PDT

•  Subsidizing gas usage

  At a time when world oil production is declining while demand is increasing, the idea that the government should, in effect, subsidize gas usage is the height of folly.

  The Republican Pary's motto could be:

  Ruinous policies for all circumstances.

  by Demi Moaned on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:49:59 AM PDT

  •  Absolutely.

    It's especially true in a market where speculators hedgers are driving prices even higher than ordinary market pressures would take them.

    The very last thing you would ever want to do in such a market is tell speculators that you are going to do whatever you can to sustain demand.

    Let people adjust their freakin' lifestyles!!!

    Let demand elasticity work its magic.

    A Republican, of all people, should understand that.

    Of course, McCain really isn't much of a Republican.

    He's more a Joe Lieberman type, and you know how that goes.

    by dinotrac on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:41:41 AM PDT

  •  But the media refrains from

    pointing this out, of course, because it detracts from the populist, mavericky image they've crafted.

    by TheWesternSun on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:50:37 AM PDT

  •  As insidious a proposal

    as Chrysler's guaranteeing a gasoline or deisel  price of $2.99 per gallon for three years (along with $3000 cash back) if you'll only buy one of their fuel guzzling trucks .  Disgusting.

    by SueDe on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 12:04:22 PM PDT

  •  The reality

    is that many Americans are being financially crushed by rising energy costs while Big Oil and speculators cash in making record breaking profits. The more we pay at the pump and to heat or cool our homes, the higher their profits go.

    The Energy bill in 2005 gave ~$18billion to the oil and nuclear industustries. Why is the thought of giving struggling Americans a break such a stretch.

    The immediate issue in big oil controlling ouput at the refinery and speculators spiking prices trhough manipulation.
    I say make Big Oil pay for every cent of tax relief at the pump.

    by CentralMass on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 12:49:39 PM PDT

    •  I'm all for giving struggling Americans a break

      ... in so many ways. It is central to my whole political philosophy. But do you really think that encouraging them to buy more gas is the best way to do it?

      In what way would a gas-tax holiday curb the speculation and profiteering you so rightly decry? Indeed, what mechanism could even ensure that the lost revenue would be passed back to the consumers?

      And even if they did get the money, how does it benefit us all in the long run. Far better to put the money into things like health care and education, where Americans are also struggling.

      by Demi Moaned on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 01:05:18 PM PDT

      •  I'm a father

        of three who drive close to 400 mile/wk just to get back and forth to work. We do almost no unnecessary driving these days. It is people like you an I that are paying the price and feeling the pain. At this moment of time, this is not an end of oil situation, this is greedy American corporations and the financial system screwing the country.

        by CentralMass on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 01:17:31 PM PDT

        •  no, it is an end of oil situation

          The era of cheap oil is over.  Permanently.  Nothing will ever bring it back.  Gas will never be three bucks a gallon again.  The price will continue to climb.  And climb.  And climb.  It doesn't matter if a Dem is Pres, a Repug is Pres, a Socialist is Pres, or a Nazi is Pres.  The oil has peaked, and it takes 500 million years to make more.

          We simply cannot depend on oil any more, no matter WHERE it comes from. Either we as a nation adapt to that stark reality, or we die. Clinging desperately to "quick fixes" in a vain attempt to bring back the good old days of cheap oil, won't help us. Those days are over.

          Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

          by Lenny Flank on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 02:17:27 PM PDT

          •  I'm not suggesting

            we keep depending on oil, I'm suggesting we take step to keep the corporations that supply it from driving the country to the financial brink. The should not be allowed to make insane profits while the product the sell is so critical to the economy.

            The truth is that at this moment, oil is not in short supply. Big Oil reduced their refining capacity to maximize their profits. They manipulate supply and demand on a seasonal basis. The Saudi's have repeatedly said that non of their customers are asking for more product.

            Idealism won't help keep the typical american family from losing their homes or trading off between food, gas and heating fuel this winter. Yo can't sove this issue on the backs of already over burdened people trying to keep their heads above water.

            I have no faith that congress will do anthing substantial to rectify the matter.  Our senior Senator up here in the liberal bastion of MA has been fighting a large proposed offshore wind project for years

            by CentralMass on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 02:38:51 PM PDT

            •  it's not "idealism"

              It's cold hard reality.

              Oil production has peaked.  The demand will keep going up, faster and faster, as nations like China and India want their piece of the pie.  And global supply won't be able to meet that demand.

              The era of cheap oil is over.  

              The price will not go back down to where it was.  Ever.

              Time for us to deal with that reality.  Or reality will deal with it for us.  And we probably won't like the results.

              by Lenny Flank on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 03:43:06 PM PDT

              •  My opinion stands.

                Though we will inevitable run out of oil and have start investing in alternative now, Peak oil is not the cause of escalationg oil prices and the American taxpayer and consumer should not be paying the price for coprporate greed. You sound like a proponent of driving th price higher to force the issue. I disagree with this.

                http://www.commondreams.org/...

                Is There an Oil Shortage?
                "Perceptions of insufficient oil supply are also heightened by the recently resuscitated theory of the so-called Peak Oil, which maintains that world production of conventional oil will soon reach — if it has not already reached — a maximum, or peak, and decline thereafter, with grave socio-economic consequences.

                However, claims of an oil shortage are not supported by facts. Evidence shows that, in reality, there is no discrepancy between production and consumption of oil on a global level. Citing statistical evidence of parity between production and consumption of oil, OPEC President Chakib Khelil recently emphasized that there was no shortage of oil: "As far as fundamentals are concerned I think we have equilibrium between supply and demand. . . . In fact right now we have more supply than demand."

                Facts of abundant oil supplies in global markets are now also being acknowledged and reported by mainstream media. For example, Ed Wallace of Business Week recently reported that "that worldwide production of oil has risen 2.5% in the first quarter, while worldwide demand has grown by only 2%. Production is expected to increase by 3.3% in the second quarter, and by as much as 4.1% by the third quarter. The net result is that the U.S. daily buffer for oil production against demand, which was a paltry 1.5 million barrels as recently as 2005, is now up to 3 million barrels in excess capacity today."

                Wallace then asks, "So what is going on here? Why would our Energy Secretary say there’s a supply and demand problem when none exists? Why would he say that speculators have little or nothing to do with the incredibly high price of oil and gasoline, when it’s clear they do? President Bush — a former oilman — gives the ever-growing demand for gasoline as the primary reason prices are so high, yet that notion can be dispelled with one minute of research."

                So, if indeed there is no imbalance between production and consumption of oil in global markets, how do we then explain the skyrocketing oil prices?

                The answer, in a nutshell, is: war and geopolitical instability in oil markets. Contrary to the claims of the champions of war and militarism, of the Wall Street speculators in energy markets, and of the proponents of Peak Oil, the current oil price shocks are caused largely by the destabilizing wars and political turbulences in the Middle East. These include not only the raging wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but also the danger of a looming war against Iran that would threaten the flow of oil out of Persian Gulf through the Strait of Hormuz.

                Close scrutiny of the soaring oil prices shows that anytime there is a renewed U.S. or Israeli military threat against Iran, fuel prices move up several notches. For example, Agence France-Press (AFP) recently reported, "Crude oil prices went on a record-setting surge Friday as fears of a new Middle East conflict were fanned by comments from a top Israeli official about Iran. New York’s main oil futures contract...leapt 10.75 dollars a barrel-its biggest one-day jump ever."

                War and political chaos in the Middle East tend to increase energy prices in a number of ways. For one thing, as war plunges the U.S. deep into debt, it depreciates the dollar — thereby appreciating, or inflating, the price of dollar — denominated commodities, especially oil.

                Depreciated dollar tends to raise the price of oil (and other commodities) in two major ways. First, since oil is priced in U.S. dollars, oil exporting countries would demand more of the cheaper dollars for the same barrel of oil in order to maintain the purchasing power of their oil. Second, when the dollar falls, oil prices rise because investors are more likely to use their money to buy tangible assets or commodities such as oil and gold that won’t lose value.

                According to a number of energy experts, between 30- and 40-percent of the recent increases in the price of oil can be attributed to dollar depreciation. One of the simplest ways to calculate this is to compare the price per barrel of oil in dollars and euros over the last five years. "The widening gap between the two [dollar price vs. euro price] indicates that 35 percent of the increase in the price of oil could be attributed to currency [dollar] devaluation."

                Stronger than the impact of dollar depreciation on the price of oil has been the impact of manipulative speculation: war and political instability have served as breeding grounds for hoarding and speculation in energy futures markets. According to F. William Engdahl, a top expert on energy and financial markets, "As much as 60% of today’s crude oil price is pure speculation driven by large trader banks and hedge funds. It has nothing to do with the convenient myths of Peak Oil. It has to do with control of oil and its price. . . . Since the advent of oil futures trading and the two major London and New York oil futures contracts, control of oil prices has left OPEC and gone to Wall Street. It is a classic case of the tail that wags the dog."

                U.S. Representative Bart T. Stupak, Democrat - Michigan, chairman of the subcommittee investigating commodity market speculation, attributes even a higher percentage of the oil price hike to market manipulation: "Speculations now account for about 70% of all benchmark crude trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange, up from 37% in 200."

                by CentralMass on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 04:28:31 PM PDT

                •  when it's "opinion" vs "reality"

                  bet on reality every time.

                  There will never be cheap gas again.

                  Ever.

                  Get used to it.

                  by Lenny Flank on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 05:25:55 PM PDT

    •  What you tax matters.

      If you want to give tax relief, cut their payroll taxes.  People end up being able to buy the same amount of gas as before.  And it is entirely false that it is necessary that the higher the price of gas is, the more the oil companies make, (why do we care how much they make rather than whether people are being squeezed? But I digress...)  Increasing the gas tax assuredly decreases oil company profits: they make the same margin per gallon and sell fewer of them.

      by drksdeofthemoonx on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 01:18:06 PM PDT

      •  I care greatly how

        much they make when the entire country is collapsing due to the price of their product. We are already seeing automatic home oil deliveries up here in the N.E. at $4.50 a gallon.  The typical home oil tank up here is 275 gallons. A $1200 suprise for senior citizens and people on the edge financially, this is a killer.

        Levy the cost of any gas releated tax cut onto the oil companies so that the needed revenue is not lost.

        by CentralMass on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 02:12:11 PM PDT

        •  get used to it

          We are already seeing automatic home oil deliveries up here in the N.E. at $4.50 a gallon.  The typical home oil tank up here is 275 gallons. A $1200 suprise for senior citizens and people on the edge financially, this is a killer.

          It's not going to get any better.  Ever.

          We'll never have three-dollar gas again.

          Time to find an alternative.

          by Lenny Flank on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 02:21:27 PM PDT

        •  You just don't get the basic math.

          Let's say we raise the gas tax by a dollar a gallon and you buy 260 gallons of gas over the year.  If you get a tax cut of $260 but the price of gas goes up by a dollar, you can still buy all your gas, (can you explain to me how how this would hurt you financially? No, you can't because it doesn't,) but incentives have shifted... the relative price of it has risen.  Whether or not you respond to incentives, and you would if the change were more drastic, companies most definitely do, and everyone would if the increase were high enough.

          If taxes are levied on a per gallon basis on oil companies, it will be passed on to consumers.  And can you explain to me how levying it on consumers as I described would hurt them, especially if it were done progressively?  I mean mathematically.  Think about it.  The pain you are feeling is a symptom of a larger problem, and you don't realize it, but your opposition to the gas tax is actually standing diametrically opposed to the solution rather than being part of it.

          by drksdeofthemoonx on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 03:46:00 PM PDT

•  To be hones, I'm surprised

  that the gas tax holiday thing hasn't had more loud support from the public.  Most people, in my experience, will support anything that saves them money right now, consequences be damned.

  Could it just possibly be that Americans are thinking more seriously about things?

  by SadTexan on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:52:13 AM PDT

  •  Please forgive

    typo.

    by SadTexan on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:52:35 AM PDT

  •  Funny you say that

    I was talking to my brother when this issue first came up (low information voter and a Republican) and he immediately mocked it...asked if McCain thought he was stupid and that the only one to benefit would be oil companies.  

    by BarbinMD on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:22:07 AM PDT

  •  Bridge Collapse

    That disaster reached home and everyone started wondering about the bridges they drive on.  It was well reported that highway and bridge infrastructure depends on the gas tax.  Without that disaster McCain's gas holiday may have resonated more.

    No one wants to be on a bridge as it is failing.

    by Clytemnestra on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:26:59 AM PDT

  •  the widespread repudiation of this shortsighted

    idea has been one of the bright spots in our political conversation during this campaign. Does it mean Americans are becoming more thoughtful? Most other evidence says otherwise.

    by Chrispy67 on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:52:40 AM PDT

  •  Who would listen to them.

    Congress does not listen to the American people. They have their own agenda.

    by CentralMass on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 02:14:18 PM PDT

•  But it doesn't resonate, does it?

  I love how even people aren't really wooed by a gas tax holiday. It doesn't work like the sales tax holiday around back to school because nobody really "stocks up" on gas.

  Perhaps they'll have "Buy 2 get 1 free" giant gas cans or something, so that people can store cheaper "gas tax holiday" gas on their porches?

  Besides the ramifications (which are addressed)...it just doesn't even make sense to average people who want to see energy prices truly decrease...not just be on sale for a day or a week by less than 19 cents a gallon...

  I've not found anyone who was really excited by a gas tax holiday. My local radio station gives away free gas. Perhaps next we can suggest they get a government subsidy of some sort...

  by berrieh on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:52:14 AM PDT

•  if we had raised gas taxes years ago

  then people wouldn't have spent so much money on cars that wasted gas, and they wouldn't have waited until this point to conserve gas. sometimes higher taxes is good policy.

  by docta jones on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:52:52 AM PDT

•  What else does he have?

  This is steadily slipping away from McCain. Maliki practically endorsed Obama's Iraq plan. McCain hasn't put a foot right on the economy yet. He's got to try gimmicks - nothing else is working.

  by johnsonwax on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:53:07 AM PDT

  •  well, McW "doesn't want to talk" bout Vietnam

    by Cartoon Peril on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:54:58 AM PDT

    •  I'm still waiting for him to answer

      Gen. Clark's question: what part of the POW experience qualifies someone to be POTUS?  IMO that's a legitimate question which McCain totally skirted by trying to hide behind Obama.

      by GN1927 on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:14:30 AM PDT

  •  John McCain:

    Candidate of Oil and Onion Belts!

    by missLotus on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:16:19 AM PDT

•  Tax revenues are fungible, so the problem isn't

  necessarily that there won't be money for roads/other infrastructure (not that I doubt it would happen under certain administrations), but that the money will have to come from somewhere else.

  Where?  Probably raising the lowest tax bracket, lol!

  by someone else on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:55:23 AM PDT

  •  People don't get this.

    So sometimes it's best to portray it as above.  It is not inaccurate since I believe money for roads and such comes partially from gas taxes.  Of course one can shift revenue, but then you would have to explain Americans math: you can cut other taxes and have more money so that you can buy the same amount of gas, but your incentives will change because relative prices will shift.  If you try to do that, everyone will go: BUT GAS IS MORE EXPENSIVE.  I'M HURTING.  YOU'RE AN ELITIST.  Reason would lose.

    by drksdeofthemoonx on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 01:22:54 PM PDT

•  You must remember: McCain speaks for himself.

  Gramm is gone; so he's left to bring up crap that makes no sense---all by himself.  Love it.

  by Phil S 33 on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:56:47 AM PDT

•  You can be sure that these 4 cretins will agree

  every time they go on teevee:

  Sean Hannity
  

  Steve Doocy
  

  Brian Kilmead
  

  Bill Kristol
  

  by joeyess on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 10:57:22 AM PDT

•  Still

  There are enough knucledraggers out there that swallow this BS.

  by tellinya on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:00:12 AM PDT

  •  Not enough to get McCain elected, I'm hoping.

    by SueDe on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 12:09:12 PM PDT

•  Bob Dole Proposed Gas Tax Holiday in 1996

  As for John McCain's gas tax holiday, a gimmick designed to help Americans with an economic downturn he deemed "psychological," even that was cribbed from Bob Dole. As McCain senior adviser Charlie Black put it in April, "I don't think it's different." Of course, in 1996, a gallon of gas cost $1.36; in April it averaged $3.39. Now it tops $4.10.

  For the details and more on the growing parallels between Dole '96 and McCain '08, see:
  "New Poll Reveals McCain's Dole-drums."

  by Avenging Angel on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:05:39 AM PDT

•  i want a beer tax holiday.

  by timbuck on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:06:06 AM PDT

  •  I just want a beer.....

    Must stop blogging...

    by Phil S 33 on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:12:18 AM PDT

    •  Fuck It!

      We'll drink it anyways!!!

      by dehrha02 on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:52:20 AM PDT

•  Repubs always point out that

  Even though the EXPERTS disagree with McBush--

  the PEOPLE WANT IT so that's why old McBush is for it!

  Except Old McBush is not for everything the people want like out of Iraq, Social security--just certain things--he can lie about.

  by Wary on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:07:26 AM PDT

•  Maybe

  I can buy a huge underground storage tank, buy gas during the "holiday", and then when gas gets expensive again I can put a pump in front of the house and sell that cheap gas to my neighbors at the higher price.

  Good plan, right?

  Thanks McMiniMe, you're very inspiring.

  by Patriot4peace on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:09:26 AM PDT

  •  Seems to me, that is an aspirational goal

    on the horizon.  

    by Phil S 33 on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:13:54 AM PDT

•  McCain's just latched onto the words 'tax'

  and 'holiday'...I don't even think he understands what he's saying when he talks of a gas tax holiday.

  by darthstar on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:14:13 AM PDT

•  Dumb tax vacation idea - check

  Dumb energy policy- check
  Dumb on the economy - check
  Dumb on Iraq - check, check, check

  Losing in the polls by only 4% - WTF?!!!

  by SecondComing on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:15:24 AM PDT

•  When will they get it?

  Gas tax 'holiday' = increased useage = higher prices = same prices as before but margins go to Oil Corporations instead of road and bridge maintainance and global warming gets worse.

  Lose lose lose lose

  by XNeeOhCon on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:15:35 AM PDT

  •  And it means

    Less money for highway construction.

    Don't get me wrong, highway construction is annoying, but it is both necessary and funded by gasoline taxes (called liquid fuels tax at least around my area).

    by Casual Wednesday on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:18:32 AM PDT

•  And, it really helps no one.

  by muledriver on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:16:36 AM PDT

•  McCentury has a tin ear as to what the

  public wants just like all the rest of the moldering old fools who run the gop.

  by oibme on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:17:38 AM PDT

•  damn the consequences

  sounds like the way Republicans always act

  by Clytemnestra on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:22:54 AM PDT

•  I saw him on TV last night....

  late night on... hmmm... it's not Jimmy Kimmel.. it's that sorta red-headed guy.

  Anyway, McCain brought up his gas tax and tried to egg the audience into applauding. No one did. He looked around and zero reaction.  Even the public gets it.

  by YucatanMan on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:24:25 AM PDT

  •  Conan O'Brien n/t

    by mjd in florida on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:28:03 AM PDT

    •  Thanks - just came to mind to me, too.

      And McCain looked like a grimacing old grinch. Seriously. He told "cutesy" stories for applause, but didn't seem to have a thought in his head. Just recited tired cliches.

      by YucatanMan on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:55:19 AM PDT

•  What? No diary coverage of Obama in

  Afghanistan?

  Oookay....

  by 99 Percent Pure on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:25:14 AM PDT

•  Offshore Drilling Holiday

  Americans turned out to be too smart to fall for that trivial but damaging "gas tax holiday". If only that glimmer of insight could be extended to outsmarting this trivial but damaging offshore drilling craze pushed by the same oilcorp cattledrivers.

  Maybe if Hillary were vocally behind the offshore drilling, Americans would kneejerk into distrusting it?

  by DocGonzo on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:30:24 AM PDT

•  Isn't that how we got out of the great depression

  cutting taxes to the bone and scaling back public works projects? Oh, wait...

  by decembersue on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:38:51 AM PDT

•  let's just remind everyone that the Federal gas

  tax is . . .  eighteen cents per gallon.

  Eighteen goddamn cents.

  Eliminating the gas tax entirely would reduce the price of gas from $4.00 a gallon to  . . . . $3.82 .

  Gee, thanks.

  These dipshits are talking like taxes make up half the price of gas or something . . . . . .

  by Lenny Flank on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:42:32 AM PDT

  •  We just raised the gas tax in MN by 5 cents

    and only 2 cents have kicked in so far. You should have heard the people at my last office whining about that.

    I mean, it's like they've never even encountered math.

    by decembersue on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:44:39 AM PDT

•  The thing is, it's a 2008 holiday

  It's a shame he can't somehow promote it today. Like, if he could speak to the U.S. Senate, for example...

  by Elwood Dowd on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:42:55 AM PDT

•  I say we have a psychological

  gas tax holiday. It will solve all our whining... er, problems... er, whining.

  by indiemcemopants on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:45:30 AM PDT

•  The price of gasoline and oil is still

  artificially low in relation to the environmental damage it does. Same for natural gas and coal. The sooner we realize the true costs, the better we are in dealing with the future.

  I'm not recommending we jack the prices up; our whole economy is built upon structures that favor the producers of these energy sources. The money would simply go into the pockets of the rich, making them richer.

  The taxes should go up.
  It's very unpopular to say this, I know.

  Look at Europe: they have been paying well over $5 a gallon for gas and oil for at least a decade, because the countries over there tax it to compensate at least in part for the environmental damage it causes.

  Taxes on energy commodities should be taxed based upon their relative risk benefit ratio to society as a whole. What we have allowed to happen here in the US is to allow taxation to adjust to what makes the 'economy grow'.

  The Horatio Alger dream and the American love affair with automobile must come to an end. Until we can come to grips with this, our society will never get out of being the teenagers we are. It's time for America to fully grasp 'adulthood'.

  by shpilk on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:46:21 AM PDT

  •  I quite agree

    I say we should up the price of gas to ten bucks a gallon.  Now.  Before the "free market" does it for us. That way, instead of all that money going to oil company CEO's and stockholders to buy more Bentleys with, we can use the tax revenue to develop and produce alternative energy sources.  Let the gas guzzlers pay for it.

    The American people have already proven that appealing to our heart doesn't work -- deep down inside, we don't really care about the environment.  And appealing to our head doesn't work either -- deep down inside, we're too dumb, as a nation, to understand any of this "peak production" talk anyway.  Or we don't WANT to.

    The only option is to appeal to our wallet.  THAT, after all, is something we DO care about. An awful lot.

    The only way people will stop using gas and start using alternative energy sources is if we simply make gas too expensive to use.  Nothing else will work.

    And for everyone who wants to gripe and moan and weep about "I can't afford expensive gas, boo hoo hoo", I have just one question --- what do you plan on doing in a year or so from now when the "free market" raises gas prices to seven or eight bucks a gallon?

    Or are you so deluded as to think that the price of gas is actually gonna go DOWN in the future . . . .  ?

    by Lenny Flank on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 01:14:13 PM PDT

    •  The free market cannot operate with respect to a

      good involving negative (or positive) externalities.  A tax (or subsidy) is required to correct this.  This is a lesson taught in any introductory economics course and pollution is the perennial example.  Economists get this.. .it's time for the rest of the world to catch up it.

      by drksdeofthemoonx on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 01:26:38 PM PDT

      •  Or rather, it is does not create

        an efficient outcome.

        by drksdeofthemoonx on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 01:33:11 PM PDT

•  "Gas tax holiday" McCain used to oppose.

  The "gas tax holiday" fraud is the kind cheap pandering that McCain used to oppose just as he used to oppose Bush's failed energy policy that did nothing to cut US oil usage.

  McCain has abandoned the principled stands he used to take on energy policy, on deficit/debt, on campaign finance, on lobbyists. All to gain access to the lobbyists and money of the Bush Republicans, mostly oil men looking to cash in on US war in Iraq and US energy policy that increases US oil usage.

  McCain has become totally corrupt.

  by Tuscany on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:50:06 AM PDT

•  Could be McCain doesn't give a damn

  about the American public.  Could be he's convinced a gas tax holiday is a good idea.  Could be he's in need of new advisors who won't lie to him - or at least tell him when his ideas are idiotic and shouldn't be aired publicly.  Could be he's just a putz.

  by SueDe on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:54:12 AM PDT

  •  Couldst be!

    But ya don't need to worry about infrastructure when you fly around the country on your rich wife's jet.

    by JeffW on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 03:02:49 PM PDT

•  Rural Voters Trend?

  Most people I know own large, cheap properties far from the city. They are virtually all Republican. And you know what? They're moving back to the city! So funny! They can't drive 100 miles a day anymore to and from the city and live the soccer mom life!
  Just an observation...

  by plok on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 11:58:48 AM PDT

  •  If high gasoline & diesel prices do nothing else,

    perhaps they'll stop urban sprawl and the constant "development" of ex-urban areas.  But this country has so far to go - it's vast, and huge areas are uninhabited.  We have no cross-country travel available that doesn't take enormous amounts of fuel and/or time - not even the infrastructure to support building it.

    We never progressed beyond the '50s dream of driving our own cars across the great expanses of the country and defining our "freedom" as the ability to do so at low cost.  In the '50s, gasoline was 19 cents a gallon.  We're certainly paying now for never updating that dream.

    by SueDe on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 12:25:41 PM PDT

    •  You're ignoring...

      ...rural areas, like where our food is grown. You can't get away from driving there.

      by JeffW on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 03:04:08 PM PDT

•  The lack of fuds will also make 300,000

  folks LOOSE JOBS!

  Is that what Americans want in exchange for a tank of gas?

  I guess some will say yes, - rethugs

  by wuod kwatch on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 12:01:49 PM PDT

•  McCain probably

  flies on his wife's plane most of the time, I think.

  by PJEvans on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 12:23:24 PM PDT

  •  Hmmm...

    ...could a jet-fuel holiday be far off?

    by JeffW on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 03:05:08 PM PDT

•  millions of $

  Millions of dollars?  No, really? Wow, let's do it! That's like 6, maybe 9 or 12 cents for every man woman and child in the country!  Gosh, has this guy got ideas or what?!?!

  by tegrat on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 02:10:38 PM PDT

•  I seem to recall..

  ...senator Clinton thinking it was a good idea at one time as well.  Is that still the case?

  I wonder.

  by DawnG on Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 02:15:55 PM PDT