Obama's Germany Speech: A mistake?

I've been biting my nails over Barack's plans to give a speech in Germany.  I know everyone is really excited about this but I'm convinced it's a mistake.

First, there was much speculation that they would be doing it at the Brandenburg Gate, something that I found to be quite inappropriate. The fact that they STILL pursued it, even after various German politicians including Angela Merkel criticized the idea, was something I found stunningly arrogant.  

Now he will be speaking before the Victory Column, which is a relief. And I am still biting my nails. After all...as much as we want him to be...

Barack Obama isn't President yet.

What business does he really have giving a speech overseas like this?? What is the rationale behind it? To quote Tuffie's comment from the diary on the rec list:

This has backlash stamped all over it.  It fits every single GOP and media these: arrogance, President of Eurotrash or America?, etc., etc.  It makes me uneasy.  

This feels like it's all about Obama, Obama, Obama. It isn't going to gain him a SINGLE vote that he doesn't already have. It may, instead alienate those folks who already think he's too foreign and too different from them.

He is already a rock star. We have seen Obama in front of huge crowds a million times. The purpose of this trip is to shore up his commander-in-chief credentials. He is doing a PHENOMENAL job in that regard and I saw parts of his interview with Lara Logan this morning and was really thrilled with it. The Maliki development is just icing on the cake. The troops love him. It's really the best press he's had in a long, long time.

And then...he unleashes Obamamania in Germany?? When Mccain was abroad, he didn't do anything like this at all. Barack should meet with European world leaders and show that he is presidential. He can do that without any effort. Showing that he's a Rock Star can also be done without any effort but it isn't going to help him get elected.

Of course, he can't cancel the speech now that it's confirmed. So I guess I am just venting. But this is one of the few times that Obama does something that I think is really a lapse in judgment. I am dreading the reception to this speech. I hope it doesn't undo all the great images from the rest of the trip.

•  tips?

  Am I just worrying over nothing?

  by jenontheshore on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:09:42 PM PDT

  •  Team Obama hasn't made too many missteps.

    I'm inclined to trust them.

    by Clyde the Cat on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:12:32 PM PDT

    •  Agree - He knows how to fashion his speeches

      and content to the crowd to which he is speaking.  

      by JFinNe on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:14:33 PM PDT

      •  Sure, but can't you see all of that being

        overshadowed by the media narrative?  Most voters won't see or read the speech. They will just know that he gave it in Germany to an adoring German crowd.

        by jenontheshore on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:17:37 PM PDT

        •  Obama speaking to adoring crowds of 1,000's

          will undercut any negative media narrative.

          The media will be negative anyway.  This way Obama controls the images.

          by Clyde the Cat on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:32:10 PM PDT

        •  what in the world is wrong with that?

           I don't get your apprehension.

          by dotster on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:56:48 PM PDT

        •  Oershadowed by the media narrative

          Have you noticed that that is what Obama is battling against? Even you in your diary adopted a term that the media use as a short hand for Obama--

          rock star

          . It is a descriptive that demeans him, and is an attempt to make him into some empty, pretty talking suit. Obama is a serious man who is trying to talk about serious things. All the angst and strum about this speech, for me, is pre-emptive player hating. Oh he'll make a gaffe, he's too arrogant and so on. Do you think for one moment, if McCain could garner a crowd in Europe, that he would turn it down? The first black candidate for the leadership of the world's most powerful nation visiting Europe. That's not media bias, that's history.

          by never forget 2000 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:22:39 PM PDT

          •  History in the moment. Carpe Diem

            That's basically what Presidential leadership is all about. You are gifted, by the public and their DESIRE for leadership, with the power to lead, in your one particular moment. What matters is what you DO with it. Do you rise to the moment, to satisfy that public hunger for leadership? Or do you piss it away? Ignore it? Play it safe?

            Timid, play it safe politicians don't accomplish much. Obama is much more ambitious than that. He knows what he wants to do, and he knows how to communicate that vision. One on one, or one on one million.

            by Asherd on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:58:57 PM PDT

    •  Yes,

      that's what Hillary supporters thought about Mark Penn & Co. back in October. We had more evidence too, as Penn had actually won a general election before ('96).

      by Wufacta on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:14:51 PM PDT

      •  It's also what Obama supporters thought about

        his campaign in October.

        The only difference is that the Obama supporters were right.

        by Clyde the Cat on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:16:24 PM PDT

        •  They were right by

          thinking for themselves, or blindly trusting "the campaign"?

          Do whatever you want.

          by Wufacta on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:17:17 PM PDT

          •  Their trust, which was never blind, has been

            validated.

            Again and again and again.

            by Clyde the Cat on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:18:39 PM PDT

            •  So if it's not blind

              where does your thinking begin? What about responding to the points made in the diary rather than dismissing it out of hand?

              by Wufacta on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:20:48 PM PDT

              •  Speaking for myself,

                I have trust in the Obama campaign because they've been very good at seeing the big picture so far. It's not blind faith if it's been earned. And given the size and scope of this move, I'm thinking they've done their homework and believe it to be a positive. I can really only guess at how, since I'm not privy to the planned media narrative and campaign message coming out of this.
                He does seem statesmanlike, though, so that's certainly part of it.

                by NMDad on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:36:04 PM PDT

                •  Thank you for responding.

                  All I hope for is for people to keep thinking for themselves and using their own heads and respond with civility and reason, whatever their position.

                  by Wufacta on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:37:58 PM PDT

      •  Hillary was dumb to hire Penn, as evidenced by

        his recent teaming with Karen Hughes.

        by darthstar on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:23:33 PM PDT

      •  oh boy, Wufacta is back

        the primaries are over.

        by Stroszek on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:25:55 PM PDT

        •  I suppose you are against

          thinking for yourself?

          "I am a freeman, an American, a United States Senator, and a Democrat, in that order".

          Lyndon Johnson

          by Wufacta on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:29:40 PM PDT

          •  Weren't you just

            talking smack about civility in a comment upthread?  The diarist is more than able to civilly and intelligently present her opinions without you running around accusing people of blind faith.  Shut up and let others debate this in good faith.  The diarist has a point, IMO.  I'm tired of people latching on to legitimate and debatable criticism like that presented in this diary and taking the opportunity to spread the dumb cult and religious memes.  Go away.

            by GN1927 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:56:39 PM PDT

            •  What does

              my question to Stro have to do with lacking civility? It was an entirely civil question. I did not mention the word cult or religious. You did. Nor do I assume anyone is acting in blind faith. I asked upthread where the thinking begins, and NMDad responded, with was entirely satisfactory.

              by Wufacta on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 03:09:19 PM PDT

  •  Yes n/t

    by Mas Gaviota on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:14:14 PM PDT

  •  your title asks, disingenuously,

    A mistake?

    And then you answered:  

    I'm convinced it's a mistake.

    So, if you're convinced, are you trying to convince US, or would you like us to unconvince YOU?

    by Dem in the heart of Texas on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:16:20 PM PDT

    •  Um.

      Sure, I guess. I am sharing my thoughts and curious about what others think.

      by jenontheshore on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:18:31 PM PDT

      •  i'm thinking mccain didn't do anything like this

        because mccain couldn't do anything like this. mccain doesn't play basketball with the troops either.

        by rasbobbo on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:37:45 PM PDT

        •  besides

          only 5 people would show up anywhere in Europe to listen to McCain saying anything.

          Because they know that he would be mcBush -- and they, as supposed to many crazed Americans, have had enough of anything assiciated with Bush to last them a lifetime.

          I hope that Americans will catch up to Europeans on that score.

          by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:22:41 PM PDT

        •  Totally

          McCain can get Joe Lieberman and a huge security detail to show up for his speeches overseas, that is it.

          Obama can speak wherever and whenever he wants. If
          jenontheshore is offended that he wants to speak at a certain venue, then she is no different than the media howling about how he "hasn't earned that right" he has earned the right to speak and give speeches by the fact that people are willing to show up and hear him. Whatever the venue. If Obama comes anywhere near where I live in California I will take my children to hear him and witness the power of the American people and their willingness to participate.

          I do not think that the Obama campaign should make any decisions around how they will be perceived by right wing media, and small-minded people who bite their nails over every speech they give. That type of thinking is how the US got into such a huge mess.

          Good for Obama, give your speeches, spread hope, come home safely!

          by voracious on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:56:39 PM PDT

    •  Cavuto alert! n/t

      Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

      by Jyrinx on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:18:54 PM PDT

      •  Before you accuse me of being a troll look at my

        diary history. There's nothing worse about Daily Kos than people jumping on other community members and calling them trolls for no reason.

        by jenontheshore on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:20:25 PM PDT

        •  Sorry, didn't mean to call you a troll

          I'm just pointing out you've pulled a Cavuto — the disingenuous use of a question mark to mask an opinion.

          Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

          by Jyrinx on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:22:16 PM PDT

        •  Sorry

          But I never really trust anyone with UID over 10,000.  And, I even question those between 1,000-9,9999.

          (This is a joke for the ironically impaired.)

          by MoDem on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:35:51 PM PDT

          •  LOL

            just made it =)

            by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:19:44 PM PDT

          •  Was it a joke or...

            SATIRE?
            :)

            by voracious on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:57:56 PM PDT

        •  There are worse things about dailykos than

          false accusations of trollism...Actual trollism for instance.

          by voracious on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:57:17 PM PDT

    •  Also, what's DISINGENOUS about my title???

      by jenontheshore on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:19:21 PM PDT

      •  it's my sense that...

        ...your goal was to use the question in the title as a rhetorical advice, which is fine, but difficult to succeed at in written communication.  Usually, rhetorical questions are those in which you're trying to convince others of your opinion, yet you then state that you want input.

        That convention strikes me as disingenuous, as it seems as though you're looking for validation rather than for a debate on the subject.

        Since you believe Obama is making a mistake, and were willing to say so in the first paragraph, why give it a title that was so tentative?

        Like I said, I could be wrong, but that's how it appeared to me - take it for what it's worth.

        by Dem in the heart of Texas on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:36:38 PM PDT

        •  Give her a break...

          Strikes me that this diary is an honest attempt to express some concern, and maybe get a bit of reassurance.  OK with me.

          by gramofsam1 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:47:07 PM PDT

          •  I'm not wanting to beat the dead horse

            I simply made a comment, and she asked for clarification, so I gave it.

            I do not agree with the diarist's thesis, although I understand the worry.   No one knows for sure how it's going to turn out, but I've noticed that the campaign has been pretty good at strategy, so I'm going to trust them on this, and hope for the best.

            by Dem in the heart of Texas on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 02:03:21 PM PDT

  •  Yes and no. I don't think Obama's speech will

    hurt him, though McCain and his media will definitely try to make that happen.  In another week or two, most Americans won't even remember that he gave a speech in Germany.

    So no, I don't think it's nothing, exactly, but I do think it's silly to worry about it too much.  The good news is that McCain is basically chasing bush's approval numbers all by himself...and given enough time, he'll get there.

    by darthstar on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:22:21 PM PDT

  •  Don't sweat it. It's probably the best move

    from a public relations stand point that a presidential candidate could make in my opinion. The reason McCain didn't do what Obama is going to do is because he CAN'T! If he could, he would. Obama is appearing as presidential, images will go around the world of Obama being loved by Europeans (and the rest of the world for that matter), and it will send a clear message that times are about to change for America. The GOP would sell their left arms for a candidate that could do something like this. But they can't, so of course they'll attack with their tired, lame "elitist" crap. But the outcome will be the same: One million Germans/Europeans coming out to see the future President of the United States. Period. And priceless.

    by Methinks They Lie on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:28:06 PM PDT

  •  Jen -- I love you, girlfriend

    I love your diaries.  But this time, I think you're worrying for naught.  

    I think Obama needs this world stage to shore up his credentials on all matters to foreign policy.  He's doing all the right things with regard to speaking to leaders, thus advancing his gravitas on policy.  However, he will still be regarded by some as having less such credentials compared with McCain due to experience, military service etc.

    One of the ways -- within the realm of foreign policy -- where he can "beat" McCain is with regard to world opinion.  He can make the case that he is one of few US politicians who can reshape global opinion of the US, which has been badly damaged thanks to Bush's neocon hegemonic insanity.

    The visual of Obama speaking to a foreign audience who clearly love him will pay in spades... At a time when the global view of the US is low, this speech (with a captive foreign audience) will give Obama an advantage over McCain. It is even bigger than political strategy -- it will be a moment of redemption for the country in the eyes of the world.  

    (Note that I state that it is a "moment" and not an elixir to cure all ills.)

    by Delilah on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:33:46 PM PDT

    •  Thanks Delilah

      I always appreciate hearing from you. And this comment is by far the most convincing one that I've seen on this subject.

      So thank you! :)

      by jenontheshore on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:36:23 PM PDT

      •  You're welcome.

        Hang in there!!!

        by Delilah on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 02:20:03 PM PDT

  •  sage counsel from the movie, body heat...

    jen, any time you contemplate strategies in direct opposition to those settled upon by obama and his team, there are a hundred different ways you can fuck up... if you can think of just 50 of those ways you're a genius...

    and pal, you ain't no ginius...

    (though, in all honesty, greatly appreciate the many thoughtful and engaging contributions you routinely make here!)

    by drainflake77 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:42:02 PM PDT

  •  Hey Jen

    First of all, thank you for sharing your thoughts, and I know your presence well enough to know you are very sincere.

    Second of all, my answer is this: it comes down to what he says.  If he builds up America and also gently chides Europe for its sometime instinctive anti-Americanism, it can play well back home.

    Third, I think he is in a unique situation in that he isn't regarded as a foreign policy expert or someone with much of a resume.  A picture of him in front of throngs in Germany can go a long way towards subliminally giving out the message of Obama/International/Foreign Policy and help increase the comfort level of those with his knowledge of foreign affairs.

    Finally, I would agree it's a gamble.  He's gambling that Americans of all ilk will be happy to see an American president highly regarded abroad.  I don't know if he's right, but it's his M.O. to double down when his instincts tell him something will work.   We shall see.

    by dansac on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:04:31 PM PDT

    •  Another way at looking at it

      Obama did not have a choice of going to Iraq and Afghanistan

      This way - he is making it a grand tour - and including the European cities - thereby lessening the Iraq - Afghanistan only focus

      Again - Obama in his thinking is way ahead of many.

      by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:27:28 PM PDT

  •  I think you are, Jen

    I think you are worrying over nothing, Jen.

    Here is why. Senator Obama will be meeting with leaders on this trip, he already has with Karzai and will with others too.

    When America and the World get to see him in Berlin talking to a massive crowd, it will accomplish two things, among many others.

    One, the American people will feel loved again. We will be proud and there may even be a bit of euphoria at seeing an American leader speaking in from of a foreign crowd. I do have faith that he will be prepared with a good speech(crossing my fingers), and if that happens and the crowd reacts, it will be even better.

    Two, our Allies will see this and have a connection to Senator Obama. It could provide him an opportunity, if elected, to already have a lot of goodwill with other leaders.

    Anyway, that's my take.

    by DAVE DIAL on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:11:45 PM PDT

•  Me to i'm getting worried

  I think this speech in Berlin is bad bad idea.

  by MercedesW126 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:12:57 PM PDT

  •  Why? n/t

    by LeanneB on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 06:18:40 PM PDT

•  I think you're right.

  We're in the distinct minority here, though....

  by SadTexan on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:13:41 PM PDT

•  Obama is a rockstar?

  What instrument does he play?  Is he a singer / songwriter?  What is the point of this diary?

  by Mas Gaviota on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:13:46 PM PDT

  •  I mean't the imagery of the "Rock Star" obviously

    As in, being in front of adoring crowds, kind of like a rock star.

    by jenontheshore on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:15:41 PM PDT

    •  It's a right wing

      talking point. Why use it?

      by Overseas on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:21:43 PM PDT

    •  In the place of stupid imagery like, rockstar,

      you could go with, very popular politician.  Then again it would not fit your hype agenda.

      by Mas Gaviota on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:22:24 PM PDT

    •  I can't wait to have a

      Rock Star, Muslim, Marxist, Elitist, Unpatriotic president.

      The fiscally conservative, morally straight, friend to people we have now has been somewhat of a disappointment. I just don't see all the morals and values my Republican party was supposed to bring to the table.  Unless the willingness to bomb innocent people has become a value we look for in our leaders.

      by voracious on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 02:03:50 PM PDT

  •  He is not a Rockstar

    Der Spiegel cover this week says it all:

    Deutschland trifft den Superstar.

    (German meets the Superstar.)

    by MoDem on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:39:55 PM PDT

•  Is it a nazi monument???

  by MercedesW126 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:14:13 PM PDT

  •  It was Built in 1873

    Long before the Nazi party existed.

    by Tuba Les on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:16:03 PM PDT

  •  Yes that is what

    the GOP websites is going to be claiming -- but then what else is news

    Anything in Germany can be said/claimed to have a Nazi background -- so do not get worked up about that - unless that was the purpose =)

    by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:16:43 PM PDT

    •  Sara, see...

      this, and user has read the rec'd diary.

      by ArtSchmart on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:39:09 PM PDT

  •  It was built to remember the Prussian victory

    over Denmark in 1864.  It pre dates Germany as a nation.

    by Mas Gaviota on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:18:34 PM PDT

    •  bet that the Danes

      are going to be out Demonstrating then that Obama is siding with Germany in the war of 1864

      We better start watching the danish militants  - LOL

      by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:34:40 PM PDT

      •  Danes can be fierce

        if you withhold their beer. ;)

        by Fischer on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 03:42:59 PM PDT

      •  Not really, I guess a lot of Danes will go to

        Berlin. The distance between Copenhagen and Berlin is about 350 kilometres

        by carllaw on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:19:18 PM PDT

•  Obama's Instincts

  I trust Barack Obama's instincts to do the right thing. He will generate a lot of respect for him and for the USA. His speech will be inspirational and show him to be very Presidential.

  It will cause a backlash, from the right wing noise machine, but the average voter will see the power that Obama has to make things happen. McCain will look inept by comparison.

  by Tuba Les on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:14:19 PM PDT

•  Keep on biting your nails if that is your

  preference...

  But I cannot see why you are getting yourself all worked up -- the Europeans will love to have an American Presidential contender in their backyard.

  Most Europeans feel that the American president has as much influence on their own daily lives as their own heads of state

  So it will be appreciated that he visits and that they get a "feel" for him up and personal -- and that he will be adressing their issues,

  So for me -- way to go Obama -- you have your finger on the European pulse too

  and McCain and his followers will just have to bite their nails and hope for the best

  by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:14:29 PM PDT

  •  good comment

    And isn't it nice for once in the last 8 years that an American leader (and Obama is one already) is being welcomed oversees? Heaven forbid that we should have that image on our minds.

    by dRefractor on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:36:21 PM PDT

    •  I grew up in Europe

      and I can tell you for sure - gauging from the e-mails from my relatives - that they are looking forward to America having a "grown-up" president - one that has some brain power

      because - the American president and what he is doing is influencing other aspects of their daily lives --

      Just look at Iraq - look at gas prices -- trust me that is impacting the daily lives of Europeans if possible worse than us -- and I am sure they can't wait either to get rid of Bush -- just like the rest of us.

      by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:59:44 PM PDT

      •  There are, in fact, two options

        from the european point of view.
        Either the Americans will get themselves a grown-up for president, or in a few years the american's choice for president won't matter anyway.

        On a personal note, american hegemony suited us rather well during the last few decades, so we'd be most pleased if you'd just vote Obama. The alternative is too bad to contemplate. OK, mainly for you. But for us, too.

        (Really, I don't get it. McCain is a f**king joke. Why isn't he 30 points behind?)

        by Fischer on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:01:58 PM PDT

        •  I cannot believe that the polls are correct

          and trust me -- I'll be voting for Obama

          here's to hoping for Obama as President.

          by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 08:15:39 PM PDT

•  I think you can chill. And here's why:

  Obama has shown over and over again his ability to play chess when everybody else is playing checkers. This fits into a master plan in a big way, I'm confident of that. I'm not sure what it is, but I think it probably has something to do with mending wounds between the US and our allies (both economic and military.)
  I'm sure that they've calculated the risks and rewards and I think we'll see it play out in Obama's favor.

  by NMDad on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:15:15 PM PDT

  •  As part of that chess game,....

    ....notice that the Bush/neocon/greedhead authoritarians also have their compatriots overseas, to a lesser or greater extent, in each country.  They all thrive on mischief making and scamming.  Obama is going directly to the People over there and they will pressure their respective politicians in a progressive direction. This makes them more resistant to pressure from Bush/Cheney and promotes the general level of sanity. That vibe, which is calm, yet energized, is felt directly by folks because it is a direct radiance of the heart and not a conjured thought.  So it is all good.  Obama is catalyzing a transformation of feeling and consciousness that is recognized mystically and directly by the evermore awakening people of the world.  

    CHECKMATE.  The old game is at its end.  It is TIME.  

    by kafkananda on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:56:41 PM PDT

•  He will approach this with humility

  and with grace. He is not going to get out there and pretend he is the President. But he will look Presidential and will impress the world includig ths country.

  by linnie on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:15:16 PM PDT

•  No matter whether or not it's a good idea...

  ...in a month it'll seem like it was years ago.

  Overall, though, I think it will emphasize his positive foreign policy cred -- diplomacy, pragmatism, being correct -- without enough anti-European backlash to make it unconstructive.

  by Addison on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:16:03 PM PDT

•  It's about time that someone pointed out

  the president is not just the commander in chief of the armed forces. And, that even though he is commander in chief of the armed forces, he is not commander in chief of everything, to the exclusion of any other duties.

  Some of those duties involve our relations with the rest of the world, currently at their nadir. I see nothing wrong with speaking directly to a European public that seems anxious to hear what he has to say.

  Nobody griped when he went to Kenya.

  Although I do kind of like the notion of a Eurotrash president, I hope it doesn't infest his ipod.

  by melvin on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:17:22 PM PDT

•  in my tribe we pray for what we fear most

  i am praying for Obama to get Laryngitis.

  by jama on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:17:23 PM PDT

  •  I am praying for Obama

    to have the news from this trip be very positive and that this trip's coverage will be a hit "out of the park"

    so far - so good -- another 3 pointer, please

    by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:19:23 PM PDT

    •  somehow i think our system is better then yours

      by jama on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:21:08 PM PDT

      •  What system are your talking about?

        did you respond to my comment?? --

        by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:23:00 PM PDT

        •  ancient Hindu system of praying for your worst

          fear to materialize in order to chase away fear itself

          by jama on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:26:34 PM PDT

          •  Wow. That's hardcore ... n/t

            Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

            by Jyrinx on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:27:51 PM PDT

          •  Hellooooooo

            I think I was praying for the best outcome possible

            -- I am the one with the hangover today -- but still -- your logic is not making any sense

            But if it works for you -- way to go

            by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:34:18 PM PDT

            •  no logic, just having fun with you, Microsoft!

              by jama on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:27:00 PM PDT

              •  jama

                I have a hangover today -- so be gentle with me - using that kind of logic =)

                by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:35:52 PM PDT

                •  sorry for harassing you, i will stop now.

                  by jama on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:43:26 PM PDT

  •  What I fear most is unspeakable

    and will remain unspoken.

    by Subterranean on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:42:50 PM PDT

•  One of his purported problems is gravitas:

  so delivering an Important speech on an international stage is an obvious rebuttal of that criticism.  Also, I think people want someone that is competent w/ international relations.  IMHO, it'll be another generation until we have another insular, daft president like Bush.

  by burrow owl on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:18:47 PM PDT

  •  That's a good response

    Thanks.

    by jenontheshore on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:22:00 PM PDT

  •  i don't get how bush passed the cic 'threshold'

    by ye ye ye on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:48:05 PM PDT

    •  America lowered the bar to the

      "stupid, loser son" level, that how.

      by semiot on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:59:17 PM PDT

  •  as long as he doesn't try

    to give Angela Merkel a massage, it will be an improvement.

    by st minutia on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:01:21 PM PDT

    •  Next best thing: he gives her a massage,

      and she loves it.

      Take that, Dubya!

      by Subterranean on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:44:33 PM PDT

•  Nein, es ist eine brillante

  Nein, es ist eine brillante Schlaganfall politischen gamesmaship zu werfen, John McCain in einem tizzy, für die sie keine angemessene Reaktion.

  by Scarce on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:19:56 PM PDT

  •  Sehr gut! n//t

    by gabbardd on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:30:13 PM PDT

  •  Ist ja, naturlich.

    by semiot on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:03:54 PM PDT

•  I made a comment earlier in another diary

  suggesting that this is precisely what he needs to gain the independent voters.

  Our credibility in the world is incredibly important at this point in history. There can be no greater image to convey that universal support for Obama than thousands (hundreds of thousands?) in Berlin.

  The MSM will spin it as you fear - but the images will be undeniable.

  by leawood on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:20:26 PM PDT

  •  Another great response

    Thank you!

    by jenontheshore on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:22:33 PM PDT

  •  Agreed. If he draws a crowd anywhere

    near a million people there is almost no down side.  It will be news the world over and will make Mcbush look even more insignificant than he already does.

    by snaglepuss on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:05:08 PM PDT

•  please baby, seven is my limit on schnitzengruber

  by rasbobbo on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:22:27 PM PDT

  •  Heh...I said the other day the only thing we had

    to worry about was Merkel going Lilly Von Schtupp on Obama...

    by darthstar on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:26:32 PM PDT

•  The only backlash

  I can see stemming from this, is from the media pumping up the racist element of the electorate, with terms like 'arrogant (the new uppity)'.
  Throw in a healthy dose of jealousy over McCain being a PR dud, and you've got yourself a 'backlash', or as I like to call it in Obama's case, blacklash.

  by Maori on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:24:24 PM PDT

  •  So what do you think the GOP are going to

    use instead of "Freedom Fries"

    "Freedom bratwurst" ??  --

    the Freedom Bratwurst Backlash !! =)

    by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:37:30 PM PDT

    •  Freedomschnitzel?

      No, I guess that would be Austrian...

      by jamfan on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:39:19 PM PDT

•  Could be, could not be.

  We have seen him in front of crowds many times, but not European crowds. It's not like he's going to do this in the Middle East. Often when European crowds go to see an American President, it's protestors. This would be different imagery.

  Also, a German poll said that about 60 percent said they thought Obama should be able to give the speech at Brandenberg. The mayor of Berlin disagreed with Merkel as well... I dont know the Chancellor is probably hedging her bets if McCain wins. But it could be a thorny issue.

  I just dont know.

  by Wufacta on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:24:27 PM PDT

  •  Remember Clinton anywhere in Europe

    he had thousands and thousand of adoring European listening to his speeches

    The one with the protestors -- has been Bush

    Remember Bush in Europe -- not a pretty sight

    by sara seattle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 01:39:14 PM PDT

  •  Merkel is a Bush toady

    Who cares what she thinks?  The Germans must have been jealous of how Tony Blair so skillfully humped Bush's leg - why else would they elect wingnut twit?

    by Subterranean on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 04:52:04 PM PDT

•  Well, I think it is a great start to his

  administration, from a foreign relations perspective.

  I don't think he's going to lose votes over this.

  As to the Brandenburg Gate, it is my understanding that this was initiated by and they brainchild of some officials in Berlin, not of the Obama campaign.

  by Mother of Zeus on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:24:28 PM PDT

•  No Offense, but people on this site love to worry

  Your worrying isn't going to stop the speech from happening, so why don't we wait to see what happens, and THEN worry about it.

  by dlh77489 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:26:33 PM PDT

•  Speech ?

  How would we feel if GWBush was about to misread and mispronounce a speech of this magnitude. My god it would make one hide under the bed.

  by oldnavigator on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:27:26 PM PDT

•  I'm not worried. The right-wing howlers will

  complain no matter what he does.  And McCain didn't do anything like this because he couldn't.  If he was charismatic and well-spoken, he would have taken advantage of those skills just like he does with his war record.

  by Leftovers on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:28:40 PM PDT

•  .

  http://www.dailykos.com/...

  by MTmofo on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:28:41 PM PDT

  •  LOL

    Yeah, that's a really great diary. I enjoyed reading it. But it didn't really dispel my fears, and this diary is actually a response to that one.

    by jenontheshore on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:31:49 PM PDT

    •  How Are You Feeling Now?

      Obama with 200,000, McCain at the Sausage Haus. Sure, they are complaining, but they would have complained at anything he did. I think Obama did a great job, and the visuals were awesome.

      by Tuba Les on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:01:54 PM PDT

•  Possible Benefit

  Americans like to believe that the world admires/looks up to them.  I'm hoping that when they see foreigners supporting a candidate so much, some may be more inclined to support him b/c it'll make them feel good about America/Obama.

  Nevertheless, there is the potential for backlash.

  by sam89 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:29:16 PM PDT

•  there will be a backlash but it will be worth it

  Obama has often talked about how he can bring people together, how he is capable of restoring our integrity and image abroad, how he (unlike Bush's heir) can rally the world behind a common cause.

  There will be a political price to pay for this speech, but there will also be a major political benefit: he can reinforce his claim that the world is looking to America for new leadership and that he is uniquely positioned to lead our allies in the fight against global warming, Al Qaeda, poverty, etc.

  Previously, this has just been talk. After Thursday, he will have an unforgettable image to back it up.

  My concern is actually that he might step over the line and project a sense of U.S. hegemony that turns off some Europeans. But if that happens, I can live with it.

  by Stroszek on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:30:19 PM PDT

•  it's a damned he does, damned if he doesn't

  proposition, much like everything else obama does.

  i would like to think that after 8 years of complete idiocy abroad, your concern about "middle america" hating on a presidential nominee who is beloved overseas is false. on the other hand, the west virginia/kentucky primaries as well as blog comments still makes me wonder whether we will ever learn our lessons from george w. bush.

  frankly, i think the germany speech is just icing on the cake and will be well received, esp. with that coinciding with his 2nd general election ad about being respected around the world again.

  also, obama isn't going there JUST to make a speech. he is meeting with all the leaders.

  by ye ye ye on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 12:31:33 PM PDT

•  Never trust the germans