The surge is not the issue

This will be a rather short diary, but this "surge" meme, along with the tepid response, is bothering me. Folks are apoplectic because McCain is acting like a Republican and the media are acting like the corporate prostitutes they are.

And yet what goes largely unmentioned is that the Democrats are again buying into the Thug framing. The "surge" has become the issue.  Did the surge work? Were there other factors involved in the reduction of violence? The problem of accepting that framing is that it ignores the real issue, the invasion of Iraq, which was based on lies that were apparent before the illegal military action took place.

McCain wants to trumpet his judgment. Excellent. Then let’s examine his judgment, and that of Senator Obama. Who voted for the invasion which has cost the lives of over 5000 American service personnel? What does that suggest about the judgment of a man who, when faced with the most important vote of this decade, made the wrong choice?

Without the invasion, the "surge" is a moot point. McCain would love to have the debate on Iraq center on the surge. It takes the spotlight away from his lack of judgment regarding the vote for the AUMF.

Jackals behave as jackals. Vermin behave as vermin. Republicans behave like the unprincipled thugs they are. Why should their behavior, or that of the media, surprise anyone? But the larger question is why are the Democrats again allowing the Thugs to frame the issue?

•  There was no 'surge'. There was an escalation.

  They called it a 'surge' as a way of falsely implying that it was temporary.  

  by Feanor on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 06:30:50 PM PDT

  •  Whatever term is used, it needs to be

    pointed out that the real lack of judgment was voting for the AUMF.

    by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 06:34:24 PM PDT

•  Tips for framing

  No invasion, no surge.

  Voting for the AUMF showed a fatal lack of judgment.

  by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 06:32:26 PM PDT

•  I disagree. The surge is clearly short-term...

  ...and they're trying to position it as a long-term solution to both Iraq's problems AND the USA's long-term strategic problems.

  Wrong wrong wrong.

  The surge has worked insofar as its goals were to reduce violence now.

  Our goals, morally, economically, etc. are much longer term.

  The surge should be the issue. It's goals and the long-term failings as well.

  I think any other analysis, including a dismissal of it's effects, would be disingenuous.

  by Addison on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 06:33:14 PM PDT

  •  McCain has made it an issue on judgment

    He failed the "judgment" test when he voted for the invasion.

    If we want to discuss how to best extricate ourselves from the quagmire, that's a different issue. But we must not allow those who voted for Bush's invasion to use the judgment issue to their advantage. If Senator Clinton was held accoutable, McCain should be held to the same standard.

    by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 06:42:14 PM PDT

    •  Which is why the surge needs to be tackled...

      ...head on.

      It's a short term "good" judgement. That should be acknowledged. But it has nothing to do with what the long-term goals are. For the USA, or Iraq, or anyone. It doesn't fix what's broken.

      by Addison on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 06:46:21 PM PDT

      •  I agree that it is a short term fix,

        and not particularly effective,IMHO.

        But we are in a campaign in which soundbites are important. "The surge is working" is a soundbite. To do an accurate assessment of the escalation does not fit into a 30 second ad or a short news clip. "McCain's poor judgment cost the lives of 5000 American soldiers" does fit.

        Regardless of what they think of the so-called surge, people believe the invasion was a mistake. That should be the focus.

        by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 06:53:12 PM PDT

        •  Well...

          ...look at the number of casualties on all sides. Down. It's short-term effectiveness is simply a matter of fact. That isn't a debate, but it's also not what matters.

          As for your point about media friendliness, I think that, "the surge is a short-term solution" is better both on the facts and as a direct slam against the GOP's message. "The surge didn't work" is a feint that allows the GOP to keep pushing their message undiluted and unchanged.

          by Addison on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:00:31 PM PDT

          •  but are casualties down b/c of the escalation

            (I can't call it the surge), or because we paid off the Sunni militias, and put concrete barriers around ethnically-cleansed neighborhoods?  I would argue it's the latter much more than the former.  How to put that into a soundbite though is something else, except perhaps to say it has not worked.

            by Aunt Martha on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:08:52 PM PDT

            •  Soundbite:

              "we've killed more innocents before 6 AM then most people do all day"...

              "it's a gated-community, not a neighborhood prison..."

              "We had to bring more troops in because we wanted them to be greeted as liberators too..."

              by MotleyPatriot on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:13:08 PM PDT

            •  Same thing...

              ...the surge is the same thing as the payments.

              by Addison on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:13:28 PM PDT

              •  No it's not

                The MSM talks about the escalation solely as the increase in troops, and that it's because of the increase in troops that violence is down.  They don't talk about the payments or the ethnic cleansing.  

                by Aunt Martha on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:21:03 PM PDT

                •  Which is why it should be confronted head on

                  by Addison on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:24:58 PM PDT

                  •  In that context, yes, I agree

                    by Aunt Martha on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:30:41 PM PDT

•  Yep, total success...

  CBS News says deaths are down 80% to a mere 21 Americans killed last month (as compared to 32 in Afghanistan).

  I guess 21 dead Americans a month is "victory".

  McCain cannot define Victory.  Bush cannot define victory.  Let me do it for them.

  Victory means that it is no longer an unmitigated total clusterf**k.  Now it is just a moderate clusterf**k.

  There is no critical judgement left in the media.  Have you seen anyone discuss Al-Sadr's decision to pull his militia off the street so he would not lose them?

  We leave, they come back.

  We stay, they come back.

  Either way, they come back and people die.  I take the former.

  by captainlaser on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 06:40:23 PM PDT

  •  It's a version of "wack-a-mole"

    Who is ultimately responsible for this quagmire? Whose judgment should be questioned?

    by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 06:46:07 PM PDT

    •  Yes .

      Where were the fucking so smart generals for the last six years ? While all of those families of killed and maimed service people were decimated .

      by ArtfromMI on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:44:11 PM PDT

      •  either retiring or getting their lips done

        so they could kiss serious ass as others retired.

        by MotleyPatriot on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:45:23 PM PDT

  •  no no and NO...

    Afghanistan is a clusterfuck.  Iraq is a clusterfuck.

    Together... makes a gagglefuck!

    by MotleyPatriot on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:10:51 PM PDT

•  There's no winning an occupation

  It's as simple as that.  The surge is bull.

  by noofsh on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 06:53:32 PM PDT

  •  Absolutely ... and totally unnecessary

    The US shouldn't have been occupying Iraq in the first place. The invasion was illegal, based on lies, and anyone who voted for the AUMF does not have the judgment necessary to be POTUS.

    by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 06:58:09 PM PDT

•  the surge IS the issue

  haven't you been watching the news?

  by Colonel Forbin2044 on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:00:42 PM PDT

  •  Unfortunately yes ... and the ads

    Everytime McCain brags about his judgment, people should be reminded that it was his poor judgment that got us into this mess in the first place. Since the media isn't about to do it, it's up to Obama's campaign to make that point.

    by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:30:47 PM PDT

•  Once again, McCain=The Past, Obama=The Future

  McCain wants to keep the focus on the "surge" (which is the past) because he has no plan for the future other than staying indefinitely (i.e., permanently) in Iraq.

  The fact that "McCain" (and I'm aware I put him in quotes, because I don't believe McCain knows what McCain wants... only his advisors do) spokesman and foreign and security policy advisor Randy Scheunemann was freaking out on this morning's conference call is that Obama has won the day on Iraq withdrawal and Scheunemann has always desired a major, permanent U.S. military presence in Iraq.

  Just google him folks.  Randy Scheunemann was the head of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (CLI).  It was spun-off from the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) in the pre-2000 period, which included Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, Don Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz.  It was Scheunemann's CLI, co-chaired by Senators (you guessed it) John McCain and Joe Lieberman, which in a letter to the Bush White House date September 20, 2001 -- only 9 days after 9/11 -- urged Bush to invade Iraq on the premise that Iraq was linked to 9/11, bin Laden and WMD.

  Lastly I recommend readers to Sen. Jim Webb's excellent new book A Time to Fight wherein he describes in detail his knowledge of the neocons' commitment to permanent U.S. bases in Iraq.

  by catchlightning on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:07:10 PM PDT

  •  Obama has definitely won the week

    McCain is going to continue to hit him on the "judgment" issue, and it is an issue that Obama should win. Any time McCain says "Judgment", Obama should respond "AUMF". McCain's poor judgment has been responsible for hundreds of thousands of lives.

    by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:34:51 PM PDT

•  We MUST spread the fact that

  the surge was assisted by:

  1.  The Ceasefire by al-Sadr's militia was a major cause for a decline in violence.

  2.  The Shiite Sheiks got tired of the presense of al-Qaida insurgents and took action to kill them or drive them out of Iraq.

  3.  The Iraqi police and army have stepped up to the task.

  4.  2-4 million Iraqis have left the Baghdad area to avoid the battles.

  5.  The presense of 30,000 additional US troops DID help to stop the violence.

  6.  Oh yeah - we've passed out literally millions of dollars to "bribe" insurgents to stop the fighting.

  We cannot let McCain keep spreading the crap that he's responsible for thinking up the whole idea of the surge and talked Bush and Petreaus into it.... and then bashing Obama for not supporting it.

  by moose67 on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:23:23 PM PDT

  •  oops make that Sunni Sheiks in item #2

    by moose67 on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:30:04 PM PDT

  •  All those points are valid.

    I also believe that an version of ethnic cleansing has helped to lessen sectarian violence.

    Most Americans believe that the war was a mistake. McCain shouldn't be allowed to play the "judgment" card when it was his poor judgment that assisted in the creation of that quagmire.

    by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:41:43 PM PDT

•  I say get over the 'surge', the choice is

  a. Control freak McCentury who choses to go forward with the "Manifest Destiny".

  or

  b. Recognition of the sovern

  by deMemedeMedia on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:34:21 PM PDT

•  Surge ?

  A buildup of troops . Surge  . A more political statement for that . Propaganda of surge has run it's course , however this is something that the media endeavors to hang on to , because they can arrange their talking points against Obama when referring to the war in Iraq . Not so many more troops , but more aggression is what decimated more of the insurgent's activities is what happened . Then it kind of makes you wonder after almost six years why this so called surge had to wait for a transformation that still hasn't brought about a political solution . Surge be damned . This is a lot of bullshit that the American people should be tired of , but as long as your faithful pundits hang on to the meme it will be surge forever .

  by ArtfromMI on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:41:44 PM PDT

  •  That's why it is up to Obama's campaign

    to paint McCain's judgment on the AUMF as a liability.

    by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:57:31 PM PDT

•  I think the campaign should bring out the

  national security/foreign policy surrogates, like Biden, Dodd, Clark, Webb, Albright and (yes, even) HRC, to really push back hard on the "surge is working" nonsense.

  Make him out to be the foolish old crank that he is.

  by livosh1 on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:45:44 PM PDT

  •  And then ask .....

    the six trillion dollar question . Why did you wait five years to invoke the "Surge" ? Btw which McCain could have voted for sooner if he had a fricking clue what the Hell was going on .

    by ArtfromMI on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:51:44 PM PDT

  •  Violence is down; less Americans are dying

    That's the sound bite. MCain wants the focus to remain on the surge. It deflects criticism about his role in enabling the invasion. Senator Obama needs to remind people that it was McCain's poor judgment that landed us in Iraq.

    by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:53:17 PM PDT

    •  And that McCain's poor judgment that

      wants to keep us in Iraq indefinitely.

      by livosh1 on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:58:02 PM PDT

      •  That would also be effective.

        McCain wants to make judgment an issue. It should work in Senator Obama's favor, that is if the Obama camp doesn't allow McCain to control the framing.

        by slatsg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 08:01:31 PM PDT

•  That's

  b. recognition of Iraq as a sovereign nation who should be respected.

  And as far as all the "other" factors that helped bring some stability and a decrease in violence in Iraq, some of those where also part of the 'plan'. Some factors may have be a combination of luck and hard work.

  We and the world need a stable Iraq as a buffer in the region. Going with the Iraqi government that wants us out of there with a reasonable time table would seem to go a long way to strengthen our diplomatic presence in the region.

  There is going to be a push to return the refugees to Iraq.

  The sad thing is that the readiness of our military was totally stressed with the Rummy, yada plans. McSame was chair of the Senate AS Readiness Committee until 06 and has some major responsibility for the current status of Military readiness.

  by deMemedeMedia on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:47:14 PM PDT

  •  But don't forget .....

    the question of the oil . It is what really got us there in the first place . Anyone who denies that might as well support Republicans . There are definitely back room deals going on as to how to have cake and eat it too .

    by ArtfromMI on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:56:51 PM PDT

    •  That's the part that I think that we have really

      lost. Big US Oil could not get the PSA signed. [Chalabi is now a persona non grata. I think he has run out of lives] Russia's petros [Gazcom, etc.] are making the deals and China is moving on the pipelines. Both have big bucks to invest. There's still a lot of players but the weakening of the $US and the fear of inflation in the area is not good for the US.

      Seems to me that the biggest leverage at this time is that the Arabs don't want the Persians in their faces. A strong Iraq is 'their' buffer. They also rely on the US Navy for security.

      by deMemedeMedia on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 08:11:49 PM PDT