veep blues w/update

UPDATE:  (8:14PM EST)  Howard Fineman is reporting on MSNBC's Countdown that it is down
to three men:  Bayh, Biden, and Kaine.  They have all been vetted and approved.  It's up to Obama to pick one now.

Ok...according to the pundits it has come down to a final few:
Kaine, Bayh, Sebelius and Biden are the one's being vetted and now floated
publicly.   Is this the best we have?

As an ardent Obama supporter since February 2007, I would be disappointed to see him select
an anti-choice Democrat like Tim Kaine.  If the Clinton's have one issue that is near and dear to them it's being pro-choice.  I could totally understand a lot of women being pissed at this choice--and how about NARAL who endorsed Obama!

I would also hate to see him pick someone like Mr. DLC Evan Bayh--a man who trashed Howard Dean in 2004 and has been an Iraq war cheerleader from day one.  We progressives bust our asses and our wallets nominating the most progressive person we could--Obama--and then he becomes president and after 8 years we're have to turn over the keys to a DLC'er--NO NO NO Senator Obama.  

Sebelius or Biden would be much more acceptable.  However, of the two, Biden is more reliably progressive
and after 8 years he would be 73 and probably not be running for president.

Isn't it interesting that the wingnuts almost ALWAYS get their guy for veep.  Quayle, Kemp, Cheney were
all more right-wing than the head of their tickets.  We always go in the opposite direction.  Come on Obama
dare to be different!

•  tips/recs

  barack obama 44th president of the united states

  by maxnyc on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:39:08 PM PDT

  •  Don't Forget About Senator Dodd!

    "It’s not something you talk about, and I don’t," said Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.), one of the few senators to publicly acknowledge he is being vetted by Obama’s team.

    Like many, Dodd said the No. 1 rule for a potential vice president is the ability to "keep your mouth shut." Source

     We wouldn't be "Blue," with Chris Dodd as Veep, now would we?  Can't see it really happening but let's hope it does!  

    by leonard145b on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:46:54 PM PDT

    •  I'm still for Clark,

      though he's probably not on the shortlist.

      I love Biden, but I don't want him in the executive branch for two reasons: (1) He's too valuable in the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and there's no one else of his caliber to take the post, (2) It's not just a matter of getting someone better into the White House, we have to strengthen the legislative branch as opposed to the imperial, unitary executive. Taking Biden out of the legislature and putting him into a largely ceremonial role in the executive is a waste of his talents at a very critical time for constitutional government in the United States. Clark's not doing anything he can't leave.

      by Danjuma on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:22:20 PM PDT

•  Biden is more progressive than Sebelius?

  In what universe?

  I agree with the rest of what you said.

  by ShadowSD on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:40:07 PM PDT

  •  This Just Isn't a Progressive Community. Period.

    - Jack Reed is more Progressive than anyone on the short list.  (See: 98% ADA lifetime ranking.)

    - He has greater national security experience than anyone on the short list.  

    - He has wider respect across the aisle than anyone on the short list.

    - He is a greater economic populist than anyone on the short list.

    - He is a greater Iraq expert than anyone on the short list.

    - He is as or more Catholic than anyone on the short list.

    - He is shorter than anyone on the short list.

    But of course, why would people on a "Progressive" blog support the ONLY true Progressive on the short list?  That would be silly.  

    Nah, let's support a bunch of middling centrists instead.

    by nocore on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:06:45 PM PDT

    •  See my post below

      I talk about how the candidates who oppose progressive causes like Bayh and Biden are bad ideas, and mention Reed as a good one.

      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      by ShadowSD on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:07:15 PM PDT

      •  ...

        Cheers to you.

        by nocore on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:45:35 PM PDT

•  Daaah!

  Starting to get sick of these VP diaries. Everyone's complaining about how much the candidates for the position suck. Of course they all suck. Obama would suck too if he weren't the nominee. ;)

  by Kip the Dip on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:42:01 PM PDT

  •  They don't all suck

    The pundits have just been tossing around some pretty awful names for Obama - not all of them, but some.  Bayh?  Biden?  Clinton?  Nunn?  Hagel?  No way.

    Looking at the hints Obama has dropped, McCaskill seems the best fit for a lot of reasons, Feingold would be really cool although that would be another dark horse pick, and I would be happy to see Reed get it although I don't think that's in the cards; learning that Kaine was a civil rights lawyer makes me think he was more likely that I used to, but there are negatives as well - however, I would not call him a bad choice by any stretch of the imagination, nor would I say so about Sebelius, even though neither is at the top of my list.

    Not all the choices suck.  There are many out there that suck - either for being longtime Washington insiders, having a history of opposing progressive causes, or both - but there are a lot of solid choices out there, and within that group some are just better than others.

    by ShadowSD on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:56:01 PM PDT

    •  but dont you think these

      four have been floated PROMINENTLY now just to see
      how people feel about them?

      feingold will not be picked...we would hear him floated

      by maxnyc on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:01:29 PM PDT

      •  yeah

        moreover, i remember reading an article a couple of months ago that noted vp picks are usually kept very private up until the last minute.  the author cited the clinton/gore ticket as well as the bush/cheney ticket (kerry/edwards was an exception) and i think a few more.  in those cases, the vp pick ended up being a surprise with very little pre-reveal buzz.  

        so i'm just hoping and thinking that obama's floating these bits about as red herrings. especially after he got angry at his committee for not being private enough at one of their vetting meetings on the hill.  

        by siberia9 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:01:54 PM PDT

      •  I don't think it's at all likely

        But it's more likely than a couple of the choices the pundits have been considering lately, given the clues the Obama campaign has dropped regarding who they're looking for (fundamental change/outsider/reinforcing choice ala Clinton and Gore).

        by ShadowSD on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:10:32 PM PDT

•  HRC

  Actually, Bayh has a slightly higher rating from the Human Rights Campaign than Biden, so it's not uniformly true that he's less progressive than Biden.

  Personally, I don't like any of these choices either.

  by mathGuyNTulsa on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:42:46 PM PDT

  •  Doesn't say much though.

    HRC stopped being a "progressive" organization a long time ago.  They're like the DLC of the gay community.

    by Balam on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:37:57 PM PDT

•  don't crucify me for anything....

  this whole thing is a bit depressing....

  by maxnyc on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:45:28 PM PDT

  •  Why?

    Maybe there's no one earth shattering on that list, but at least Lieberman's not on it. Now that would be depressing.

    by beltane on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:59:46 PM PDT

    •  ok....you are right! n/t

      by maxnyc on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:01:59 PM PDT

•  Sebelius is a genuine progressive

  Take it from us Kansans...

  She is successfully governing a state with House of Rep that is 65% Republican and a Senate that is 70% Republican.  Those of us who have been around a while remember her a genuinely progressive state legislator-- trust this Kansan, in her heart she's one of us.

  And as Governor, she has:
  Vetoed ConcealCarry (only to have it overridden)
  -Vetoed THREE TIMES a giant coal plant in Western Kansas
  Repeatedly stood up to the antiabortion zealots (which in Kansas MEANS something)

  Also... she is tough as nails and consistent as hell (see Al Gore).  

  by jgkojak on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:45:56 PM PDT

  •  I think you meant to write:

    -Vetoed Conceal-Carry (only to have it overridden)
    -Vetoed THREE TIMES a giant coal plant in Western Kansas
    -Repeatedly stood up to the anti-abortion zealots (which in Kansas MEANS something)

    see here as to why.

    by NeuvoLiberal on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:46:14 PM PDT

  •  Sebelius won't bring Kansas, but:

    She's particularly helpful in Ohio (father ex-governor), Michigan (childhood and vacation home), and Missouri.  

    Staring down coal plant expansion tipped me in her direction for VP.  She also has a great fiscal track record and her red state success fits nicely with the inclusive theme of the Obama campaign.

    I hope it's her.  If not, I can deal if it's Biden.  I'd be slightly disappointed with Kaine, considerably disappointed with Bayh.

    Depending on who he picks this time, Obama could always switch running mates in 2012 (from an "experience" VP to a "successor" VP).

    by SunWolf78 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:49:11 PM PDT

•  I was on the Webb bandwagon

  There's no one on the short list who's all that exciting.

  by beltane on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:46:02 PM PDT

  •  I preferred Webb too

    but I think Biden brings a lot of the same qualities to the table.  Bayh and Kaine?  Not so much.  I was open to the possibility of Sebelius, but apparently it has now been whittled down to the three dudes.

    by Balam on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:40:57 PM PDT

    •  Yes, Biden's foreign policy

      experience is genuine, he is respected by the media talking heads, and he can be very, very funny.

      by beltane on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:24:25 PM PDT

      •  Indeed

        the more I think about it, the more I like the idea.  

        by Balam on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:29:06 PM PDT

  •  Webb and/or Clark, but...

    ...just a personal hunch here, but once those two were effectively out of the running (by choice or otherwise) my own guess is that Biden's stock went through the roof.

    by Ericwmr on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:29:52 PM PDT

•  I like our final four.

  Bayh is the safest, most electable choice; Biden has the foreign policy gravitas and attack dog credentials; Sebelius adds a great deal of change, executive experience and bipartisan substance; and Kaine could swing Virginia (although that's shaky--I'll concede that Kaine might be the least attractive of the big four).

  My personal favorite is this person.  A fresh face, a detailed policy wonk and an excellent attack dog.

  by Namtrix on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:46:59 PM PDT

•  I can't see Sebelius or Kaine as presidents

  because this is what a vice-president pick means.

  As for the other two, yes they certainly do the job and have the necessary gravitas, hough i prefer Jack Reed.

  Anyway, whoever is chosen, he or she has to fulfill the role of the attack dog. This is what is expected from from the VP during the campaign along with fundraising.  

  by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:52:50 PM PDT

  •  biden by default...................

    if people have a few doubts about  Obama himself as CIC how could he pick someone who would engender even more doubts....

    keith is reporting big kaine MO on countdown

    by maxnyc on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:04:07 PM PDT

  •  No, they are too inexperienced

    It would be a mistake to select either one.

    by TDC In Florida on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:06:03 PM PDT

    •  I believe you can't have a Freshman governor

      being the vp of a Freshman senator. I could be wrong, but you need some balance on the ticket.

      by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:09:30 PM PDT

  •  I understood the update to read "Sebelius out"

    Howard Fineman is reporting on MSNBC's Countdown that it is down
    to three men:  Bayh, Biden, and Kaine.

    I'll have to catch a replay of KO, but I would understand this, as written to mean Sebelius recently got knocked out of the bracket. (assuming the Fineman reports are accurate, of course)

    by Ericwmr on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:11:28 PM PDT

    •  nevermind, so did the rest of ya. LOL nt

      by Ericwmr on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:19:00 PM PDT

    •  If these are the final 3, either Bayh or Biden

      are better than Kaine.

      I think Bayh has the edge though since he supported Hillary and he is a neighborhood which Obama needs to carry desperately (Ohio)

      by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:51:34 PM PDT

      •  thinking likewise...

        Assuming these are the three, Kaine's probably at the bottom of the list.  Aside from a discussion of his pros and cons, he's also the first one so blatantly floated as a trial balloon...Reading between the lines, it seems Bayh is next in line for the latest close-up.

        While Biden is my personal prefernce of the three, I am with you on the hunch that Bayh is the most likely to be chosen....mostly for the reasons you state, but also because he (of the 3) allows Obama the most wiggle room between reinforcing his resume and being able to spin out of accusations that he has sold out on "change."

        by Ericwmr on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:59:35 PM PDT

        •  I agree with you. I think it is a trail balloon

          they are floating his name to see the reactions of the media and the base. I think they might even poll that or conduct a focus group.

          by Mutual Assured Destruction on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:52:16 PM PDT

          •  Looking much like the Kerry and Gore process

            ...Thinking back, the media buzzes with 3-5 names, and the actual revelation is really very anti-climactic.  The trend here is looking very familiar.  Until other/better reporting comes along, I'm inclined to take this final 3-4 at face value.

            by Ericwmr on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 08:12:33 PM PDT

          •  Yea, someone's getting polled/focus grouped..

            Very low profile of course, and contrary to the rhetoric, but they'd be foolish not to these days.

            by Ericwmr on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 08:14:16 PM PDT

•  Gore !!

  I hope Obama has been talking with Gore, seeing if a reasonable arrangement could be worked out under which Gore could agree to take the slot.

  A couple weeks ago Gore indicated he wasn't interested, but not in the most absolute, clearcut way. And the question wasn't pushed very far. I got a slight sense that he could possibly be persuaded.

  Maybe if Obama agreed that Gore could have a non-traditional campaign style and that he could be virtually in charge of environmental policy, I wouldn't be surprised if Gore is amenable. I hope Obama has been looking into this.

  by TDC In Florida on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:04:35 PM PDT

•  fineman just reported on countdown that

  the final three have been vetted and approved--
  biden, bayh, kaine and it's up to obama to choose

  by maxnyc on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:07:45 PM PDT

•  let's stop speculating about anyone except

  these final three.  Bayh, biden, kaine.  unless someone else comes out of the woodwork it will be one of these guys.  

  the best pick for obama of these three would be biden

  by maxnyc on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:13:00 PM PDT

  •  Biden

    would seem like a no-brainer.  Bayh's got all that DLC baggage and really doesn't have anything to offer besides the slight possibility to bring in Indiana's electoral votes.  Kaine's ability to bring in Virginia is questionable, he's inexperienced and is not reliably pro-choice.

    It should be Biden.  He is the perfect one to play Johnson to Obama's Kennedy.

    by Balam on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:50:37 PM PDT

  •  Disappointed to see Sebelius dropped

    (if the report is true, anyway)

    If those three, I suppose I'd like to see:

    Obama/Biden 2008

    Obama/successor 2012

    But I'm not about to speculate about 2012 VP choices, assuming we're in that position at all.

    by SunWolf78 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:51:51 PM PDT

    •  by 2012, there'd be a huge bench to pick from

      ...In four years, many of the Govs. and Congress critters currently hampered by the experience factor will have a second term beginning or under their belts.  Furthermore, so would President Obama. Even if Biden were the nominee...and a two term veep at that, there's virtually no chance he'd be the 2016 nominee given age. If it is Biden, one term and then replaced with a successor to groom would be a very wise idea.  In another upside, Four years from now, we'll have much more room to be picky about who said heir-apparent is.

      by Ericwmr on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:15:13 PM PDT

  •  Agree to stop other speculation but...good luck.

    If these are the final three, perhaps we should trust Obama's judgment and start bracing to minimize the anger that's about to break out on this site, regardless of who gets the nod. We've got too many here who aren't going to give up on Clinton or Edwards until November 9'th.

    ...but I'd like to be proven wrong and cynical here.

    by Ericwmr on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:32:58 PM PDT

•  Biden is best choice for main reason

  as you say he can't bring any states with him or youth etc etc but
  if,god forbid anything happened to obama he would make the best Pres.

  by irrationalbutsane on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:01:53 PM PDT

  •  Which, due to McCain, will be a bigger factor

    I've got a Biden bias myself, but that is one of many good considerations if these are the final three.  I've long thought  McCain's age and med history will result into greater than average scrutiny of veep picks on both sides.  Couple that with worries about what could happen to a black president (G-d forbid) and this is going to be a bigger issue for voters than it has been in the last several elections.

    by Ericwmr on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:27:53 PM PDT

•  even those who don't favor Biden,....

  Cmon: even if ya hate Joe Biden, you have to admit, if nothing else, he would at least be gratifying to watch in a VP debate.

  "I will eat Rudy Giuliani alive in a debate." - Biden.

  lol

  by Ericwmr on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:05:05 PM PDT

  •  totally

    i want to see our vp pick rip the other vp to undeniably uncomposable (ok i made that word up) shreds.  

    i can't see bayh or kaine doing that.

    i could see biden and sebelius (maybe) doing that.  

    (in a fantasy land, if hillary weren't so problematic in so many ways, she would be the funnest to watch.  debating her must be like being put through a meat-grinder, then made into a sausage for her consumption.)

    by siberia9 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:12:04 PM PDT

    •  that would be a cage fight for any candidate...

      HRC isn't my favorite name this year, but credit where credit is due indeed.  Not only is Hillary formidable in that arena, but the intangible "picking on a woman" issue makes things even trickier for the few who might be able to take her head on in a hot confrontational...

      by Ericwmr on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:18:11 PM PDT

•  wonder why sebelius was dropped

  from the final 4

  by oscarfrye on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:15:30 PM PDT