Daily Kos

What's going on here?

Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 08:01:10 AM PDT

Pay attention folks. Our dreams for a Just America can have us projecting illusions onto what actually falls far below our principles, or using assumptions and wishful thinking in place of the rhetoric that is before us. As our interpretation of reality is subject to the beliefs we hold, we can tend to look at events with rose colored glasses, interpreting them in the best possible light, rather than recognizing the warnings that something or someone falls below our ideals or far short of our principles. And if they fall short of our principles, it is our job as citizens to call them out.

With dizzying speed it seems Obama is recoiling from the very principles that I hold dear, and we are being asked by his strongest supporters to engage  in an interpretation of these actions that is nothing short of a dangerous form of wishful thinking. It is also a disempowering solution to what I would call a political crisis for the democratic party members, the "ordinary" folks that contribute time and money to the party in the hopes that Obama will turn us from the deadly tide on neocon beliefs that has nearly served to wreck our country, and take the world economy with it.

It is our job as voters, as citizens, as people, to demand that our leaders represent the ideals that this country was founded on.  To engage in assumptions and wishful thinking that at some point in the future, they will, in fact, do what we think is best, do the right thing, is potentially delusional, and dangerous.

If politicians don't respect the your constitutional rights now, or the constitutional fabric of this country, then there are no guarantees those principles will be respected 8 months, 10 months, one year from now. No guarantees. Period.  

I think Kos has made the strongest statement yet regarding FISA, that I have heard anywhere:

As I've made clear to those reporters, there's nothing "centrist" about the FISA vote. There's nothing liberal or conservative about protecting the constitution. And given libertarians and liberals are both for keeping the Constitution out of the shredder, it's hard to pretend the issue sits on the simplistic left-right axis.

I would go even further though, and dispute the notion that this support of the FISA compromise is fear of "crappy ads" that would inject the notion that Obama is soft on terrorists. That might be part of the issue, but here is my fear: Obama, seeing the road to the Whitehouse relatively clear for him, opening with a large lead over McCain, simply isn't willing to let go of executive powers that he will inherit.

George Bush, in policies and practices, went beyond any previous president, essentially bloating the powers of the executive branch, to the detriment of our constitution, and endangering our democracy in the process.

My feeling is the Obama, now with the Whitehouse in view, is backtracking from principles that would essentially lessen the powers of the executive branch, and restore a greater checks and balance system that is sorely needed.

This isn't just about a candidate fearing the label "soft on terrorism". This is about about consolidating powers. Consider this:

From 2001 to 2007, the NSA engaged in a secret program that was a straightforward violation of America's wiretapping laws. Since the program was revealed, the administration has succeeded in preventing the judiciary from making a definitive declaration that the wiretapping was a crime. Suits against the government get dismissed on state-secrets grounds, because while the program may have been illegal, it was also so highly classified that its legality can never be litigated in open court. And now suits against the telecoms will by dismissed en masse as well. Meanwhile, the new law moves the goal posts, taking illegal things the administration was doing and making them legal.

I'll say this for Obama: he's not waiting to reveal his stances. He's not flip-fllopping after the election, he's letting us know where he stands now. He's testing the waters, and it is up to us to let him know that we favor protection of the constitution now, not on some future date when the so-called war on terror has been won.

Tags: FISA, Obama flip-flops (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 31 comments

  •  I welcome your thoughts and views. n/t (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    enough already, jlynne
  •  100% Correct (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sara seattle

    I am Doc Gonzo, and I endorse this message.

    Happy 4th of July. This is the day that we celebrate bombing, right?

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 08:08:23 AM PDT

  •  Obama never was half as progressive (3+ / 0-)

    as the true believers on this site would have it.  He certainly ran to the right of Clinton during the Iowa caucuses (which is when I went to hear "the big three" and came away believing that the spectrum ran right-to-left as Obama-Clinton-Edwards).  

    People got really carried away and projected their beliefs on Obama.  That's certainly understandable -- he's inspiring and exciting.  

    And, I guess, it's how we choose presidents.  So it goes.

    Disclaimer:  I've donated to Edwards (December - January), Clinton (February and March) and Obama(May and July) in equal amounts.

    "With all the wit of a stunned trout, prodigal stumbled clumsily into the midst of a discussion . . . " -- droogie6655321

    by prodigal on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 08:09:14 AM PDT

  •  There's little evidence to support you (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dotster, ArtfromMI

    The Senate already voted on the bill and the House made a deal that Obama had little or nothing to do with. It's a stretch to claim that Obama's consolidating his superpowers.

    "It's the planet, stupid."

    by FishOutofWater on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 08:09:17 AM PDT

    •  Your statement "Obama had little or nothing... (3+ / 0-)

      to do with" is exactly what I am talking about. He has the power of his office, a U.S. Senator, the power of his stances as he communicates them to the public, which he has, and the power of his vote on this "compromise".

      This is very dangerous thinking on your part, and quite delusional.

      •  And where this power (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        sara seattle, scorpiorising

        is concerned, Obama has no equal in the Senate.

        the power of his stances as he communicates them to the public

        The type of power that Harry Reid has in the Senate could never give him the kind of opportunity to effect change in the way that Obama's power could.  But he squandered it none the less.

        "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it." Robert F. Kennedy

        by enough already on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 08:53:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  He also has the power as the presumptive (0+ / 0-)

        leader of the Democratic party now that he is the Presidential candidate.

        To pretend Obama has no say in any Democratic politics is not being truthful -- he could have led on FISA - if he wanted to -

        he decided not to....

        "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

        by sara seattle on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:33:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  What is going on here? (5+ / 0-)

    Well, it looks to me like we're about to embark on day 4 (5, 6?) of beating on our nominee for things he has not too much control over.

    Happy fourth!  

    •  What do you mean, "for things... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      sara seattle

      he has not too much control over?"

      He is a U.S. Senator, and has the power of his vote and stances in the Senate.

      Your statement is the ultimate disempowering statement, and as such, is a very dangerous state of mind: by stripping him of any power in this you relinquish him from accountability. That is not democracy.

    •  unfortunately, its more like week 2 of beating on (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Karma for All

      our candidate

      Who will tell the people? We are not who we think we are. We are living on borrowed time and borrowed dimes. -Thomas L. Friedman

      by ATLanthony on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 08:24:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  WHAT?????? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Karma for All

    Barack Obama isn't a pure progressive?????

    Why hasn't anyone raised that here before?????

    ... oh wait ...

    ... they have, ad nauseum, for about two weeks now.

    Translation:  Duplicate diary.  Delete please.

  •  They did the same thing (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sara seattle, scorpiorising

    with the Military Commissions Act too.  

    taking illegal things the administration was doing and making them legal.

    I would go even further though, and dispute the notion that this support of the FISA compromise is fear of "crappy ads" that would inject the notion that Obama is soft on terrorists. That might be part of the issue, but here is my fear: Obama, seeing the road to the Whitehouse relatively clear for him, opening with a large lead over McCain, simply isn't willing to let go of executive powers that he will inherit.

    And he's another "part of the issue"

    From this Diary yesterday

    Blockhead? Toddler? Whiny Bitch? Reactionary?

    This

    I view Obama's approach to this issue similarly to how Kos views it.  I have made it clear here, here, and here that I differ w/ him about the cause of this shift.  I think that it's about campaign $ from big donors much more than it's about fear of the 527s.

    And this

    W/i a few hours after the vote, as my links above noted, he will be attending a $28,500/head fundraiser at Sen. Rockefeller's house.  We all know what Dem senator, above all, has been the primary purveyor of this s**t sandwich of a bill.  It's kind of difficult to push really hard against a bill all day and have the bill's most determined advocate raise $ for you at night.

    "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it." Robert F. Kennedy

    by enough already on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 08:45:52 AM PDT

  •  Think about what Obama has to lose (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Karma for All

    in either direction.

    1. If he supports the FISA bill and it goes through, then there's probably not going to be too much negative press about it.
    1. If he goes against the FISA bill and it goes through, then you will never see the end of the press about how Obama doesn't mesh with the Democrats and that he's unable to hold them together, etc.
    1. If he supports it and it doesn't go through, then everyone wins, the media won't likely make too big of a fuss about it.
    1. If he goes against the FISA bill and it fails, then again, Obama will look like he did when he went against the Iraq war.

    Out of all of these 1, and 2 have the highest probability of happening. Short of the FISA supporters doing a complete 180 and voting against it, there really isn't much he can do without looking pretty bad other than support it and try to amend it as much as he can.

    He touches on these hard bills in his book Audacity of Hope and how difficult it is to vote on them because they have good things and they have bad things.

    -- http://1337hax0r.com

    by MrvnMouse on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 08:52:27 AM PDT

  •  I agree (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sara seattle

    and it bothers me greatly, but then, I am considered a Constitution purity troll.  Meh.

    Steny Hoyer = a slam dunk argument for term limits

    by jlynne on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 08:55:59 AM PDT

  •  Only if (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sara seattle, Karma for All

    You said

    ...it is up to us to let him know that we favor protection of the constitution now, not on some future date when the so-called war on terror has been won.

    I say: only if we can phrase our criticism in such a way that it does not detract from his electibility.  While I am saddened by Obama's failure to immediately pursue righting Bush wrongs, I am positively frightened by what McCain might do with those same powers.

    Obama holds the moral high ground on every issue that I care about when compared to McCain, even when I wish he would do better.  I will still do my best to get him elected.

    I mean it's like these guys take pride in ignorance! It's like they like being ignorant.

    by math monkey on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 09:03:35 AM PDT

    •  I did not make a statement... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      sara seattle

      to encourage people to not do their best to elect Obama. I have encouraged people to hold him accountable to the Constitution.

    •  Ye of little faith... (0+ / 0-)

      I seem to have a lot more faith in Obama and his abilities to prevail than the lot of you.

      I think that Obama is strong enough to withstand criticism from the left and the right --

      I do not believe he has to be coddled  and protected at all cost - he is bright and strong enough to take care of himself.

      So - cheer up people -- and take comfort and courage from a man that has more courage and strenght than so many of you.

      Obama will win in November -- but not by protecting him like he is some fragile flower - but by testing him.

      "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

      by sara seattle on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:44:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Obama will prevail... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        sara seattle

        I am sure, no matter what. But will our democracy and our Constitution? I'm not debating his courage or strenth to carry on in his campaign, although I think it probably takes much more courage to defend the constitution, and therefore, the rights of Americans. That is the kind of courage I am looking for.

Permalink | 31 comments