Even the Freepers Know the FISA Bill is a Bad Idea

Congratulations, Congressional Democrats.  Today you've managed to pass a bill so outrageously offensive to the Constitution that even the wingnut crazies at Free Republic know it's bad news.

I do have to credit even our nutty blogger friends on the other side of the aisle: we bloggers do have the ability to see past the next electioneering challenge, lobbyist threat or potential attack ad to survey the damage a Constitution-gutting bill would do in the wrong hands.  Sure, they're silly enough to believe that the Libs/Commies will use this expanded Executive power to round up all the guns and make Spanish the official language--but give them credit for knowing when too much Executive Power is a really, really bad idea.

If only our politicians had the same ability to see beyond the next few months of an election cycle, and to survey the damage being wrought to our institutions of government, as the fricking Freepers.

Don't believe me?  Try these comments out for size:

djsherin:

I don’t trust the government. While I certainly have nothing to hide, it’s a slippery slope. We can only hope that the precident doesn’t allow some future president to justify more overt spying techniques.

prisoner6sson:

If it weren’t so close to elections, I wouldn’t be so afraid of who or how the bill is used in the future.

Translation: I totally trust George W. Bush to use these powers for good.  Obama/Hillary?  omgwtfbbq head for the hills!

traviskicks:

well, giving up liberty for security is a proud American tradition. [SARCASM]

m203m4:

Barack Hussein Obama thinks he will be Mr President Obama in January. If you were a power-hungry stealth-communist on the cusp of assuming the highest office in the nation, with grand visions for remaking America, which way would you vote?

Translation: The only reason Obama would support the bill is to create a totalitarian Communist state in the image of Josef Stalin!  Dick Cheney creating a neo-conservative fascist state in the image of Adolf Hitler, on the other hand, I have no problem with.  Carry on!

PastorTony:

Welcome to 1984. It’s telling that not a single Republican senator voted against this.

Translation: We're all fucked.  What have we done?

TheRepublican:

Bye 4th amendment. It was nice knowing ya!

commonguymd:

Let’s see if some people start to change their minds here quickly now that a democrat might be in the white house....

-------------------------------------------

But the kickers that really drive the point home?

PhantomLord:

Other than the Columbian free trade deal, I can't think of a single defeat Bush has suffered in congress in the two years the Rats have controlled it.

avacado:

LOL! Bush just got the war funded... AGAIN!

nra2bfree (whose charming tagline states that "LIBERALS SHOULD BE EUTHANIZED FOR THE 'COMMON GOOD.'":

Obviously, they haven't been paying attention. The Republicans/Bush have been kicking their butts all over the place.

-------------------------------------------

Great work, Congressional Dems.  You've managed to make Kossacks and Freepers alike simultaneously fear for the nation's future and pine for its Constitution.  But at least you got to brag about getting the sand kicked in your face once again so that you could avoid those nasty GOP attack ads in the fall.

Nice work.

•  tips

  for...oh, I don't even know anymore.

  by thereisnospoon on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:18:39 PM PDT

  •  even stopped clock

    is right twice a day

    by waitingforvizzini on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:22:49 PM PDT

    •  And...

      Missing a chromosome is obviously not fatal.

      by NegSpin on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:26:38 PM PDT

    •  Right. And, I still

      love your username!
      As for no spoon's foray into freeperland, well...to me, it's "inconceivable". Not enough eye bleach in this town. But I commend him for his bravery ;-)

      by Lisa Lockwood on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:35:59 PM PDT

      •  "Hello my name is Inigo Montoya..." NT

        by waitingforvizzini on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:40:30 PM PDT

        •  For the FISA thing, the operative quote is:

          I do not think that word means what you think it means!

          by Indexer on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:00:22 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for some perspective.

    It's not always about Obama.

    by lettuce kucinich on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:40:20 PM PDT

  •  Those on the Right and Left who pay attention...

    see where this is all leading: an Orwellian Surveillance State--duly ratified by the U.S. Congress, years after being implemented on the ground by the Bush/Cheney/Rove/Libby/Addington unitary executive.

    But what happens in freeperland if Democrats as vicious and ruthless as Bush, Cheney, Rove, Libby, and Addington gain control of the massive databases collected under this statute?

    The databases, together with sophisticated "link analysis" software, will give those in power the ultimate "oppo research" toolkit. We progressives do not want that kind of power in the hands of the Right or Left. Freepers haven't complained much about the last eight years, but now they fear that the same powers may end up in the hands of Democrats, and suddenly they are reflecting on the potential consequences.

    by FMArouet on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:46:42 PM PDT

  •  Tip

    For venturing over to Freeperville.

    by smkngman on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:47:16 PM PDT

  •  Kudos for braving the waters over there.

    Wingnuts overwhelmingly tend to be authoritarians, but there is a sizable libertarian component.  I would expect them to be freaking out.

    Thanks for sharing!

    by Marc in KS on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:08:39 PM PDT

  •  Freepers think they will loose

    the next executive election.  That changes how they think about things.

    by zeroooo on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:10:31 PM PDT

•  Logic at Free Republic.

  I think there's a glitch in the Matrix.

  by droogie6655321 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:22:12 PM PDT

  •  did you see that cat

    walk by twice?

    by waitingforvizzini on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:23:41 PM PDT

    •  Logic at Free Republic.

      I think there's a glitch in the Matrix.

      by droogie6655321 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:24:17 PM PDT

      •  Crap

        See?

        by droogie6655321 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:24:26 PM PDT

        •  now the windows are bricked up

          and mouse is gonna die

          by waitingforvizzini on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:25:08 PM PDT

          •  He was annoying anyway.

            by droogie6655321 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:25:41 PM PDT

            •  i share his taste in pin ups

              lady in red and such.

              by waitingforvizzini on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:26:41 PM PDT

  •  The Libertarians are speaking out on this one

    Such that they are allowed to say anything.  I think their comments will get banned once the moderators start reading the comments.

    by benny05 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:24:03 PM PDT

    •  Libertarians?

      Took 'em long enough.

      by droogie6655321 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:25:27 PM PDT

      •  Speaking of libertarians . . .

        whatever happened to CALibertarian? Haven't seen him around in a dog's year.

        by Indexer on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:28:18 PM PDT

•  Yep.

  I still can't find any constituents for this bill.

  by indiemcemopants on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:23:13 PM PDT

  •  Verizon, AT&T

    who else do you need?

    by thereisnospoon on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:29:20 PM PDT

    •  Oh yeah.

      I keep forgetting that actual people are irrelevant. Damn. I'm sure they'll be around to remind me a million more times though.

      by indiemcemopants on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:32:25 PM PDT

  •  There are only about 650 of them. Members

    of the house, senate and the executives at the telecos.  

    by FXDCI on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:31:32 PM PDT

    •  Shit, I wanna

      pass legislation that only applies to 650 people. Or even less. It wouldn't be wasteful or ANYTHING and everyone in the country would approve.

      by indiemcemopants on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:34:04 PM PDT

•  No One

  Even knows why we are passing this thing.

  by bink on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:25:22 PM PDT

  •  the reason

    starts with an "M" and ends with a "Y", and there's a "ONE" in the middle.

    by limpidglass on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:26:15 PM PDT

  •  I certainly can't figure it out

    can anyone else figure it out?

    What--a Republican attack ad?  oh noes!

    by thereisnospoon on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:29:45 PM PDT

    •  Bush Wants It

      Because a telco lawsuit would inevitably include some sort of discovery that would make public the criminality of his presidency ... especially domestic spying that pre-dates 9/11.

      As for everyone else?

      No idea.

      by bink on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:32:24 PM PDT

      •  I think certain

        Democratic Senators and Representatives were informed of it a long time ago, and they don't want that coming out, either.  I think of people like Rockefeller.

        And lots of Congresscritters are afraid of November and being painted as "weak on terra."

        God, what a fucked up mess we've made.

        by Marc in KS on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:11:34 PM PDT

    •  Since the

      option of, "Okay, we'll give the telecoms immunity if they come in and tell on the record what they were asked to do and did," was never even floated, I'd have to suspect the reason was to protect Congressmen/women.

      by TracieLynn on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:30:04 PM PDT

•  This bill...

  makes it harder to elect Democrats.

  What are they thinking.

  by ek hornbeck on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:26:00 PM PDT

  •  It god damned sure

    makes it hard for me to get out the vote for two representatives who voted for it in the House.

    It makes it really hard.

    Back in '06 I was one of the loud "Control of Congress at any cost" people.  Fat fucking lot of good control of Congress has gotten us.

    by Marc in KS on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:12:50 PM PDT

  •  Yes, it does.

    I can't help but think that a lot of the destructiveness to the party has to be intentional.  Much of it, like introducing and supporting FISA, is actually going out of the way to create problems with the base and with a public identity separate from the Republicans.  They can't be that stupid.

    by blueoasis on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:57:46 PM PDT

•  I feel utterly betrayed...

  I wrote an early morning "Pooties against FISA" diary..and I expressed my disdain about the whole deal.  Time to mourn my friend..

  

  This is what our Constitution looks like now..

  

  I am highly saddened by this...so are my pootie friends...

  

  And the pooties ask Congress...

  

  It's now the long goodnight to our Constitution.

  

  by Tainith on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:26:10 PM PDT

  •  I hope the lowered flag wasnt for Jesse nt

    by waitingforvizzini on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:27:44 PM PDT

    •  Not at all...it was for the death of..

      the 4th Amendment.

      

      Truly it's a very sad day indeed.

      by Tainith on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:29:06 PM PDT

      •  I share your sadness

        by waitingforvizzini on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:30:59 PM PDT

        •  I am not just sad for my sake...

          I am sad for your sake...my son's sake..and every single American man, woman and child's sake.  The children will never know what it's like to have the freedoms we had when we were growing up.

          Where's the telescreens Big Brother??? That's next probably. :|

          by Tainith on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:34:38 PM PDT

          •  Kids don't think of privacy like we oldsters do.

            They have been living their nonanonomous lives on line.  I don't think they get the idea that the government has to prove why they need to regulate anybody for the  common good, bound by the constitution.  

            Not all yungins but many.

            by dogheaven on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:57:48 PM PDT

  •  Let's not spend too much time mourning, because

    now is the time to fight.  Buck up.  The road ahead is long and dangerous, but a republic is worth fighting for.

    by An Affirming Flame on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:56:16 PM PDT

•  reminds me of the Feingold/Paul Rule...

  If you see Russ Feingold and Ron Paul on the same side of ANYTHING in Congress, you can be sure of two things:

  1. They're both right.

  2. Most of the rest of Congress is wrong.

  I think much could be said of when you see Kossacks and Freepers in agreement.  When those two sides agree about ANYTHING, you can be pretty sure that Washington disagrees with us. :(

  by Orbital Mind Control Lasers on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:26:40 PM PDT

•  Thanks for going there

  so we don't have to.  The freepers do value privacy as long as it doesn't apply to sex.

  by CA Nana on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:29:08 PM PDT

•  It sure is a

  hot topic over at Huffington Post

  The front page smacks you in the face with the headline and graphic.  Almost 1000 comments already.

  Basically, the only citizens who are NOT against this bill, are the ones who know nothing about it at all.  Everyone else is against it and Congress knows it.  They don't care.  They have demonstrated in no uncertain terms that they feel no need to represent the people anymore.  And why should they?  The constitution is just an old piece of paper.  

  by enough already on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:38:35 PM PDT

•  Uh...if they also agreed with

  those on the left who believe that this bill is horrendous, why the hell didn't they do anything to stop it's passage?

  The folks over here who denounced it contacted their senators, went to Barack Obama directly with it (his website), and blogged about it forever. At the most, the left blogosphere were so impassioned by this that they railed against the bill. What exactly did THEY do to stop FISA? From the roll call, every single Republican (sans McCain) voted FOR it.

  So if they want to talk about how their Fourth Amendment is obliterated, they should ask themselves what exactly had they tried to do in order to stop such a thing from happening.

  As for the supposed Democrats and their supposed "majority" in Congress, meh. The Democratic leadership since we gained the "majority" has been lame. They're given a sword and instructions on how to use it and they still can't figure out how to decapitate an enemy with it.

  by mselite on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:59:33 PM PDT

•  RON PAUL is the only hope for the Republicans

  It's not too late for them to change their minds and replace McCain with RON PAUL because RON PAUL is the only way the Republicans can save their souls!

  RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL
  RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL
  RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL
  RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL
  RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL
  RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL
  RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL
  RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL

  by Geekesque on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:03:05 PM PDT

•  No Political Gain

  I think this proves my point, which is that there was no political gain from Obama voting for this bill. He wasn't going to gain any votes from anyone. He wasn't going to insulate himself from attacks on his national security cred. He wasn't going to fool anyone, because the only people who care about the issue are the people who care about the Constitution.

  What he succeeded in doing is losing money, time and votes from everyone who does care about our rights. That's everyone--left, right and center. As such, it was a stupid political move with costs and no benefits. And, for what? To sell out the Constitution?

  However, we need to get over this quickly and move on to the next constitutional battle. We need to use this opportunity to take the offensive. It's time to turn anger into action, so I hope you will join me in pressing Congress to restore and enhance civil liberties by looking seriously into how the government collects intelligence and processes it. It's time that we demand both our rights and our security. We need not give up one for the other.

  Think, liberally.

  by Liberal Thinking on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:07:48 PM PDT

•  They're rightly alarmed about NSA Chief Hillary.

  If the Democrats don't have the balls to kill this terrible law, we may as well have the Republicans do it once Obama is President.

  by Subversive on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:28:48 PM PDT

•  Time to take names & kick ass, Again.

  This so tiring, and disappointing, and uncalled for... Note to senate dems; if you're not up the job required of the opposition party please just admit it and resign.

  by AuntieM on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 06:02:19 PM PDT