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It doesn't matter how many times good reporters like Marc Ambinder report that the Obama-Clinton discussions are smooth and the plans for the convention are amicable, and it doesn't matter how often Hillary stumps for Barack, the media love a good fight.

Reports of strife between negotiators for Sen. Hillary Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama are exaggerated and the two sides are nearing an agreement on how Clinton's delegates will participate in the formal nominating process at the Democratic National Convention, according to advisers to both Democrats.

The trouble is, they are missing the real feud, which unlike the made-for-TV stuff on the D side has serious bad blood potential .

"I think that there are better choices for Sen. McCain [than Mitt Romney] that will have the approval of values voters," [Mike Huckabee] added.

Huckabee denied an earlier media report in which he seemed to suggest that it was Romney's Mormon religion that should be a disqualifying factor.

"There is absolutely no issue about Mitt Romney's religion. I have never said that," Huckabee said.

But his comments renew what had become a nasty spat between the two politicians during the Republican primary. Huckabee's come-from-nowhere victory over Romney in the Iowa caucus was a big reason that Romney lost the nomination.


Yet as Mr. Romney, a former governor of Massachusetts, is said to have emerged as a top contender to be Senator John McCain’s vice-presidential running mate, a vocal segment of conservative leaders and grass-roots activists have mobilized against him, with some going out of their way to block his path to the Republican ticket.


"I think when you look at Mitt Romney, he's not in the totally uncomfortable column, but he's not in the completely comfortable column," said Tony Perkins, of the Family Research Council. "Those that do have opposition to him, they're pretty adamant in their opposition."

The social conservative wing and the Club for Growth wing really dislike each other, to the bone. When McCain sent up that trial balloon about pro-choice Ridge and Lieberman as VP, it sank like a stone.

That thud you just heard was the Ridge/Lieberman VP trial balloon that social conservative activists quickly popped. They couldn't find reporters fast enough to denounce the prospect of McCain adding a pro-choice pol to his ticket. "It absolutely floored me," Phil Burress, head of the Ohio-based Citizens for Community Values, told the Politico’s Jonathan Martin. "It would doom him in Ohio." Home School Legal Defense Association President Mike Farris said to the Washington Times: "If Tom Ridge is on the ticket, I will not be voting Republican." Then again, if this was a trial balloon, wasn’t this the response McCain is looking for?

So where are the rest of the divided GOP stories? Oh, sorry. With our media, that narrative only applies to Democrats. I forget that, sometimes.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:03 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

    •  Mormons are a cult... (8+ / 0-)

      ... according to many evangelicals.


      Hyperbole will be the death of us all!

      by MrHinkyDink on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:15:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ha (7+ / 0-)

        As opposed to Christians, who enjoy sanity-by-consensus status in America, and so can't be can't a cult.

        "Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking." - John Maynard Keynes

        by Drew J Jones on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:17:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Its more than that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Any group that does not allow non members to know what they believe, is, and should be suspect. The LDS has a longstanding tradition of secrecy of its beliefs. I think this is the reason, along with scientology, that its viewed in such a negative light by many. Although, it can't help that it has modified the core beliefs of the majority religion.  

          •  Nothing new. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            You just described many religions.  Catholicism is no less secretive than the LDS, so why does the LDS get singled out?  And, really, while I find Mormonism bizarre, I'll also say this to you: The moral failings of the Pope seem far greater than those of the LDS leadership.

            The only difference is that there are a shitload more Catholics around.  The only big-name Mormon in American politics is Mittens, whereas we constantly have to listen to people like Tweety and O'Reilly and other apologists for the child molesters and their enablers in Vatican City banging on about their Catholicism and how awesome it is.  Again: Sanity by consensus.

            My point is that Mormons get hated on, but Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc, are no less batshit crazy.  The Mormons are just outnumbered.

            And, in re: Scientology.  Is the story of Xenu really any crazier than Noah putting together a big fucking ark with two of every animal?

            "Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking." - John Maynard Keynes

            by Drew J Jones on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 01:37:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, its not (3+ / 0-)

              Catholicism is not at all secretive in its beliefs or practices. Its the exact opposite. It tries to send out all of its beliefs. The day to day administration of diocese or the Vatican itself is sometimes under wraps, but IMHO, thats a different beast as it doesn't affect what Catholics believe or how they practice their faith. . It doesn't try to shut down a website that posts information about its practices.


              I'm not speaking about the absurdity or believability of a religious tenants. Again, the moses story is very very public. Post it on a website, no one bats an eye. Post the Xenu story and Scientology does everything it can to shut you down.


              •  Yes and No (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                You're right.  The Vatican isn't as secretive as the LDS or the COS in beliefs and practices.  Fair enough.

                As I think the folks at /. made clear, you need to distinguish between posting about Scientology practices and posting a specific text that the COS owns a copyright on.  You can't cut and paste the text, but you're free to read it and report on it.

                I agree that the Scientologists are generally assholes.  However, posting to explain the Xenu story isn't going to get you shut down.  Hell, Scientology's beliefs and practices -- everything from Xenu to the electro-psycho-meter-thingy -- were ridiculed in prime time on Boston Legal a few years ago.  Tough to think of freer speech than that.

                "Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking." - John Maynard Keynes

                by Drew J Jones on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 02:48:06 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Give me a secretive religion... (0+ / 0-)

            ... over pushy Evangelicals any day.  People who believe that everyone else should share their beliefs, and dedicate themselves to trying to make that happen?  That's what I don't like.  I get tired of having other people's beliefs pushed on me.

            John McCain voted against health care for kids.

            by Land of Enchantment on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 08:16:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Kind of like (6+ / 0-)

        All religions and the way a lot of the people belonging to them behave ........

      •  heck, the Roman Catholics are a cult too (6+ / 0-)

        according to many evangelicals.  

        Of course, they think ANYONE other than them, is a cult.  (shrug)

        Editor, Red and Black Publishers

        by Lenny Flank on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:17:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I Wish I Could Agree With You DemFromCT! (0+ / 0-)

          But, you're fundamentally wrong and the polling proves it!

          Right now, McCain has the support of 88% of Republicans, compared with Bush's 94% support in 2004. (See Rasmussen Daily Tracker, Pew Polling, etc., anybody who gives us Demographic data on voter ID).

          Right now Obama has the support of 83% of Democrats, unchanged since he wrapped up the nomination in June. (Kerry got 89%).

          Republicans don't care a fig about McCain. They hate Obama and want a reason to vote McCain? So, now they're getting all excited about McCain's lying "I'm the Original Maverick!" ads and "McCain supports drilling for oil and Obama opposes it." That's good enough for them. 64% Now Support Offshore Drilling; 42% See it as Best Way to Reduce Oil Prices 90% of Republicans support drilling and only 37% of Obama supporters.

          Obama gets 93% of Democrats who supported him in the primary, but only 72% of Hillary supporters, (up from 69% in June right after he clinched the nomination).

          In short, nearly 1/3 of the Democratic base has NOT come together for Obama. He desperately needs to rally the hard-core Hillary supporters, because right now, that's what's keeping McCain in the race.

          There are 8%-10% more Democrats than Republicans this year and Independents are evenly split (just like in 2004), but more Democrats are defecting from Obama, than Republicans from McCain. Polling: McCain Improves With Base, Obama Stays Flat

          •  you're right at the moment (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wishingwell, jfdunphy, Setrak

            but you forget Dem history. they never come together earlier than republicans. That the GOP has to come together at all is the story line(also noted by GOP stalwarts like Novak and others.)

            You won't see that in polls., You'll see it in donations, phone banks and enthusiasm questions. But the time to judge it is not now.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:58:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I wrote about all of this yesterday, (5+ / 0-)

              Romney didn't really continue the feud after he dropped out, he set himself up as the team-player while Huckabee set himself up as the silver medalist.  You must've missed the news that Huckabee has demanded a prime-time speaking slot at the RNC.

              Mike Huckabee is establishing himself within the Republican Party, and I see him doing an excellent job at that.  Ed Rollins, who ran Reagan's campaigns, is a close friend and was Huckabee's top aide.  Huckabee is setting himself up to run in 2012.  Consider this;  Nixon, Reagan, and George H.W. Bush all came in second before winning.  George W is the exception, but the guy that came in second against him is currently their party's nominee.  Republicans love silver medalists..


              "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Matthew 10:16

              by Setrak on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:06:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I Think That the Republican Base HAS Come (0+ / 0-)

              Together At All Is A Hell of A Story!

              Bush is at 28% support or so, 1% lower in Rasmussen polling than his lowest ever.

              80% of Americans think we're on the wrong track.

              McCain is running on a platform of All-Bush policies, all the time.

              Yet, McCain is within 2% of Obama in Rasmussen Daily Tracker, and 1% in Gallup polling right now.

              If a Democratic President had screwed up as badly as Bush the Democratic nominee whoever he was, wouldn't be within 10% right now.

              Yet, the vast majority of Republicans and a majority of Independents and even 1/3 of Democrats have been convinced somehow that McCain does NOT equal "Bush III" despite every possible evidence that he does.

              There's a chance McCain will win the election when there should NEVER IN HELL be a chance. After Bush, this nation should never elect another Republican for the next 20 years.

              Just how badly do the Republicans have to screw things up before America says "that's enough from you?! Go sit in the corner and be quiet up until I tell you to come out! And I want you to think about what you've done! When you're ready to apologize and show some sign that you're really sorry for breaking everything you touched, then you can come out and play with the other children! But, not until then!"

              •  National polls don't really tell the true story (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                It looks to be very close but I think with a few percentages Obama will win this election. That is because McCain's support won't get any stronger. He just doesn't bring that same enthusiasm and vigor to his campaign compared to other presidential nominees of the past.

                Where Obama's strength lie is his ground game. He is hammering a platform based on change and a lot of republican too are sick and tired of the same old thing. Just as many think that McCain is just like Bush and he might be just as bad as Bush because of his warlike qualities and his lack of understanding in the economy.

                Obama just needs to be able to connect with his core supporters. Tell us why you feel you will make a better president? Can you feel how we hurt too? What is your story that is compelling to voters? Obama needs to answer these. He can. He play up to the fact that he is Black and White and will be a president of all races. He should play up the fact he gave up a life of riches to become and organizers helping those in the streets. He should play up the fact he graduated one of the tops in Harvard and that he was the first Black to be accepted as the president of the Harvard review board. He should also play up the fact he will be a president that will wage war on poverty in our country and that faith also gives him the strength and courage to do what is good for humanity.

                But its not over yet. Obama can do better. Polls don't tell the entire truth. He is winning but not by much but I still think he can win when Nov. comes around.

    •  You mean some fundamentalists do not. (0+ / 0-)

      Or, perhaps, you have a definition of fundamentalists that applies to a very small group of people.

      I am a Christian conservative who has spent years in evangelical congregations, including some -- Assembly of God comes to mind -- that would be be considered, if not fundamentalist, then leaning heavily in that direction.

      My experience has been that the more conservative (in their religion, not nec. their politics, thought the two overlap) folks do not consider Mormons to be Christian, and thus not saved.  They have a number of theological issues that I never paid much attention to .

      That's different from not "liking" them, whatever that means to you.

      By and large, the folks I knew liked Mormons fine as people, and greatly admired many things about them, especially their focus on family and community.

      Except for the furthest fringes, I think most of them would prefer someone they perceived to be a Christian, but could accept a Mormon without too much grief because there is so much value overlap.

      Accepting Romney may be another matter, though.  I hear that people who get to know him just plain don't like the guy.  Never have, personally, so I wouldn't know what the beef is.  

      Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

      by dinotrac on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:17:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Divided Republicans? (8+ / 0-)

    Great news for McCain!

    Bart: "So how do you know so much about economics?" McCain: "I pieced it together, mostly from sugar packets."

    by DH from MD on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:07:21 AM PDT

  •  it's unseemly for the "grown up" party to bicker (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OMwordTHRUdaFOG, jds1978

    or to be seen doing so, but please, please pick huckabee or romney!

    "The most common form of terrorism in the U.S.A. is that carried on by bulldozers and chain saws." Edward Abbey

    by timbuck on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:08:36 AM PDT

  •  Nice to see some acknowledgement that (10+ / 0-)

    Clinton and Obama are getting along just fine.  I'm so tired of reading about the "democratic party divisions" and watching otherwise sane progressives (many here on DKos) buy into the Republican-promulgated narrative of disunity and pumasites.

    "With all the wit of a stunned trout, prodigal stumbled clumsily into the midst of a discussion . . . " -- droogie6655321

    by prodigal on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:10:28 AM PDT

    •  Mccain will pick (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Porter , I think.

      •  He'd do just as well (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        To pick a porta-san/porta-potty...........

      •  Pawlenty (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell, echatwa

        unless Obama rocks with his convention and gets endorsed by Colin Powell in which case he might go with Lieberman.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:59:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I just don't McCain (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          winning this election regardless of whom he chooses.. He actually beleives that unless you make 5 million per yr that you are a middle class American.

          The Cons may be celebrating his BS artist job on his base last night but I am pretty sure that anyone including Hillary supporters saw that and went white with fright.

          Not to mention women who value their privacy rights and men who also value abortion as a right to privacy.

          And the SCOTUS being 100 NEO CON was really frightening too. Obama should do an advertisment about what would happen to this nation if the SCOTUS went NEOCON.

          We are talking about no consumer protections, total and complete unitary execuetive for the execuetive branch, McCain revealed himself as a TOTAL LUNITIC last night, and just the fact that Obama could go before those people and not be booed off the stage for well thought out honest answers should serve as an eye opener for anyone who beleives McCain is the same as he was in 2000.

          NO way, this guys is all about installing a puppet goverment for BushCO.

          Obama needs to spend serious money to demonstrate that reality to American's..Even McCain's long time friends think he is a lunatic.

    •  The Clinton-Obama Divide Has Nothing To Do (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      With Clinton Or Obama! It has to do with 28% of Hillary supporters who are NOT supporting Obama.

      Many of them won't vote for Obama even if he picked Hillary! So, it's at least questionable that they'll rally to Obama just because Hillary says nice things about him. Hopefully the convention will help, but if it doesn't really improve Obama's standing among the 28% of Hillary voters who aren't supporting him, he's in real trouble.

      The election is close because:

      1. There are at least 7% more Democrats this year than Republicans (Rasmussen polling on Voter ID).
      1. Only 11% of Republicans aren't backing McCain, but 17%-18% of Democrats aren't backing Obama.

      So, Democrats' entire advantage from Bush being so unpopular, is offset by Obama not wrapping up the base.

      He has the convention and the debates to rally at least another 10% of Hillary voters. If he doesn't do it, he'll lose the election.

      Because nothing is going to stop McCain from getting close to the 94% of Republicans Bush got in 2004.

      McCain's attack ads have rallied his base. Now he's running the "I'm the original Maverick" ads to get Republicans excited about him, (if you haven't seen it it's filled with lies like "He'll stand up to big-oil"). This confuses low-information Independents into thinking "he's a Maverick!"

      This is an ugly, ugly election, and so far McCain is winning the media wars hands down.

      •  of course he is (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell, nautilus1700

        Media is in the tank for R, why is this any different from the last 30 years?

        We have no desire to offend you -- unless you are a twit!

        by ScrewySquirrel on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:01:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  plenty of people disagree with you here (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell, jfdunphy

        srart with Stuart Rothenberg:

        By this time in the election cycle, voters have seen more ads that they care to and have heard candidates and their surrogates promising everything imaginable. Another ad is, well, just another ad — meaningless blather about change or jobs or health care or taxes — that’s aimed at getting votes and getting elected.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:02:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Obama is DOOMED!!!!!!!! (4+ / 0-)

        He is spending too much money organizing youth and Latino voters when he should be spending more time kissing ass of Appalachian Democrats.  The Hillary supporters will DOOM Obama meme will get a lot of traction heading into the convention but nobody will pay much attention to the voter registration and GOTV efforts by the Obama campaign.  Democrats can't unite to win blah blah blah.

        On the other hand, you have a seasoned campaigner who has a history of surging late in a contest and was able to best the anointed candidate in a long difficult primary.  People still don't understand that Obama is capable of learning and improving as a situation goes along.  It is going to be fun to watch Obama take it to McCain in the coming months.  Someone who can think and act is going to be tougher to trash than conventional wisdom wants to acknowledge.

      •  Cugel (0+ / 0-)

        I'm wondering what role you place in the registration of new voters.

        Your analysis assumes a static electorate.

        I think you miss two important variables:

        Increased voter registrations are happening everywhere even now. It did not end during the primary. Some of those 17-18% will be offset by these voters.

        Secondly, percentages are not how we elect presidents. I think its more meaningful to make analyses on a state by state basis. It give us a better glimpse into what numbers we'd need and where. For example, if 10% of that 17-18% is in West Virginia, Kentucky, LA, MS, AK, OK, TX and other states where there were Hillary supporters but states NO democrat would win in November, I think that is a more meaningful analysis.

        And finally, the polls are reflecting likely voters. Some are reflecting registered voters. None are reflecting the new voters being registered everywhere in the country. Not yet, anyway. Once registration deadlines are met on Oct. 4, I think subsequent polling will be more reflective of what's going on.

        Give Em Hell!! OBAMA 08

        by mdmslle on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 10:43:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's always good for the Republicans (0+ / 0-)

      Didn't you get the memo?

  •  I think McBush will pick... Tom Delay... (5+ / 0-)

    his campaign to date has just been sort of an exploratory into how much hypocrisy the American public will tolerate... and they're kicking butt... Tom Delay will be the October surprise VP pick... ;)

    Dudehisattva... <div style="color: #0000a0;">"Generosity, Ethics, Patience, Effort, Concentration, and Wisdom"&l

    by Dood Abides on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:11:13 AM PDT

  •  The thing about Republicans (10+ / 0-)

    is that they are a servile, obedient group of voters. They may have disagreements, but at the end of the day they'll do exactly as told.

    The weak in courage is strong in cunning-William Blake

    by beltane on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:12:29 AM PDT

  •  God, I hope he picks Lieberman. (6+ / 0-)

    He's already 0 for 1 as a VP candidate. Would love to see him go 0 for 2.


    Hyperbole will be the death of us all!

    by MrHinkyDink on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:12:41 AM PDT

  •  Exactly.. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, Bronxist, jds1978

    ..Huckabee is being as slick as he can about it but he's shown his hand on his feelings about the Mormon faith during the primaries..and he caught flack for it.

    Selecting Mitt as a VP would probably be only marginally more offensive to evangelicals than selecting a pro-choice VP though..soooo I hope McCain ignores his advice.

    A Conservative is a man that believes that nothing should be done for the first time - Alfred E. Wiggam

    by mrckknievel on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:13:19 AM PDT

  •  How pathetic is someone (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, prodigal, jds1978

    When your placement as 2nd banana behind a senile old pandering fool , is being contested ?

  •  Newss??? It's the Georgian debacle/lie that the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, jds1978

    talking heads on Sunday morning TV care to cover.  After all, we do need another new and improved boogeyman, and lo and behold...Here comes the big, bad, new and improved Red Scare.

    Are you scared yet?  I would be more concerned about our immediate threat to our country, and to our lifestyle and Consitutional rights from those we call "our government representatives".

    "..The paper holds their folded faces to the floor, and every day the paper boy brings more...." - Pink Floyd

    by LamontCranston on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:16:32 AM PDT

  •  there has been civil war in the Repugs for years (8+ / 0-)

    They were able to paper over the cracks while their party was in power, but now that their, uh, "permanent majority" is dead as a mackerel, they no longer have the swag to keep everyone happy.  The neocons have always thought that the fundies were nutty, and the first thing they did when they took over the Bush Adminsitration was kick out Ashcroft, the fundies' darling. The party also ran as far away from Huckabee as they could, and it was only his god-given political machinery that allowed him to do as well as he did. The corporados, who have ALWAYS run the Republican party, don't like the fundies either -- theocracy is very bad for business.  

    The fundies USED to dominate the party agenda (largely because they dominate the money-raising and vote-delivery machines), but no longer do -- they have been stamping their foot for years now that none of their precious social agenda ever got passed by the Bushites, and they have been talking openly about bolting and forming their own party.

    If the warring Repug factions ever get back into unilateral power and the swag starts flowing again, they'll all kiss and make up.

    They have no choice.  They can't live in the same house together, but they can't win an election for dogcatcher without each other.

    Combine that with the demographic fact that angry white men (the bread and butter of the party) will soon be a small political minority in the US, and I think I can safely predict that the Republican Party is in for some awfully hard times for the foreseeable future . . . .

    Editor, Red and Black Publishers

    by Lenny Flank on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:16:36 AM PDT

    •  That's NOT going to matter this year though! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jds1978, skillet

      Fact: 88% of Republicans are supporting McCain right now.

      Fact: 83% of Democrats are supporting Obama right now.

      That 5% difference in party loyalty is what's keeping the race close, since there are more Democrats.

      Virtually the entire Republican party is totally on board with McCain right now.

      And they no more care what McCain is like than Democrats really cared what positions Kerry took in 2004. (Remember that he vowed to continue the war? Nobody cared, because we hated Bush and wanted him out!).

      Same thing with Republicans. They hate Obama (he's a Democrat) and they desperately don't want to lose. That's all. It's all about winning.

      They don't even care what McCain does after he wins. They'd all go back to infighting.

      But, come the election, you'd better believe that all the rats are still on board and biting desperately.

      •  well, they have no choice (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        That's why McCain HAD to kiss fundie ass last night, whether he wanted to or not.

        But in the end, he'll give the fundies virtually nothing.  Just like Bush and the neocons did.

        Editor, Red and Black Publishers

        by Lenny Flank on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:08:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It does not account for Rs in 04 who bolted, now (0+ / 0-)

        are registered Independents or Democrats or Libertarians, etc.

        I would love to see polling about the number of Republicans who switched parties since 2004.

        So this poll does not surprise me. Many disgusted Republicans who will not get behind McCain have left the Republican party.

        The one thing we know about the McCain that they're very good at negative campaigns, they're not so good at governing- Barack Obama

        by wishingwell on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:42:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  In PA, we had huge Democratic registration (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        well over a million and several article were written about Republicans who switched to Democratic. And I have yet to see, read or hear about a switch back. It was not all Operation Chaos, that was a small percentage here in this state.

        The one thing we know about the McCain that they're very good at negative campaigns, they're not so good at governing- Barack Obama

        by wishingwell on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:44:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The Republicans know the Senate and House are (0+ / 0-)

        a lost cause..they will lose miserably. So they pour all their energy and attention into keeping the White House. So I am not surprised at all.
        But polls also show only 14 pct are enthusiastic about McCain. Sure they will never vote for a Democrat. But how many Republicans  will stay home because lack of enthusiasm can cause the less hard core Republicans  to go Ho guy will never vote is not needed..and they stay home.

        The one thing we know about the McCain that they're very good at negative campaigns, they're not so good at governing- Barack Obama

        by wishingwell on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:48:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Romney will be the choice. (0+ / 0-)

    And it will come down to money as it always does for the regressive party.
    I really wish we could get newt or jeb and open a can of whup-ass on them. That would be the end of either of their credibility. (Though i don't understand why either has any remaining credibility in the first place.)

    St. Ronnie was an asshole.

    by manwithnoname on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:17:27 AM PDT

    •  Splt Across Dixie (6+ / 0-)

      Yes, corporate spokesmodel Romney is clearly the choice of the actual Republican Party vested interests. But Huckabee is much more the choice of the majority of the millions of Republican Party voters and members. Who now have actual majorities only in the South and sparsely populated Midwest states.

      That is why the Republican Party is deeply divided. The neocons brought the corprocons and the theocons together under a single leadership, but their jig is up. Republicans can win mainly in the South, where the corprocons are weaker than the theocons. In the rural Midwest, there aren't enough House members to exercise much power, and the Senate will have an even bigger Democratic majority.

      Neither Romney nor Huckabee is going to surrender to the other for the sake of their Party. Especially when their Party's power is shrunken so much, with so many incumbents running from it, making each of them proportionally much more powerful in it than they were before. They're going to fight for it, even as they damage and shrink their Party's power more. It's even better than that: Huckabee might actually exercise some restraint to protect his Party from damage, but Romney, who actually has the Party's real rulers behind him, will not. Which means the one with more power to do damage is less inhibited than the one who can do less to protect it.

      Democrats, and everyone else, should do everything we can to fan the flames of this conflict. It's the epic contradiction between Christianity and corporatism that Republicans have manged to harness for power for generations. But now that the carbon rods are out of the reactor, it's probably irreversibly headed for meltdown.

      "Core values" indeed!

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:29:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dan Quayle anniversary tomorrow (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mcfly, OMwordTHRUdaFOG

    On August 18, 1988 Dan Quayle was chosen to be George H.W. Bush's running-mate. That was at the RNC at the New Orleans Superdome.

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:17:58 AM PDT

    •  Here's hoping history will repeat (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell, jds1978

      The second spot on the ticket was not publicly known before the convention; Bush chose James Danforth "Dan" Quayle, U.S. Senator of Indiana, as his vice-presidential running mate. The revelation of Quayle's selection as running mate did not come until the second day of the convention, when NBC News broke the story.

      ..and McCain picks someone we've never considered.

      Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

      by Scarce on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:20:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Convention picks someone we've (0+ / 0-)

        not considered.  Now wouldn't the MSM just love a brokered convention in Minneapolis?

        How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

        by hannah on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:51:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Limbaugh cannot stand McCain (6+ / 0-)

    No story there on any divided political party.

    Doesn't fit the narrative.

  •  1/3 of the fundies (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jfdunphy, jds1978

    think mormonism is a SATANTIC cult.... esp the part about the majic undies

    even the Devil slaves for the fortunate

    by OMwordTHRUdaFOG on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:18:31 AM PDT

  •  MSM actually doing a good job on GOP fault lines (6+ / 0-)

    The Huckabee attack on Romney has been getting headlines for a while as has theevangelicals trying to torpedo any pro-choice Republicans (Ridge or Lieberman) for the VP spot.

    We might be more sensitive to stories about Obama-Clinton conflict but the Right Wing-Extreme Right Wing fights on the GOP side are getting equally billing.

    Good part for us is that the Obama-Clinton conflict is meaningless gossip while McCain has a real problem with the right wing battles over the VP since he loses votes no matter which one he picks. He appeals to Republican right wing base, he loses independents and moderates. He goes with Ridge or Lieberman, he loses the right wing base.

    What poetic justice that Republicans strategy to make it's base in right wing religious groups is turning out to be a deal with the devil of religious bigotry and will likely cost them this election.

  •  Fabulous Fabulous. Let religious bigotry (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, Hillbilly Dem

    take down the power the GOP built on the backs of the "faithful".

    You can't be the land of the free, if you aren't the home of the brave - The Wonder Moron

    by dogheaven on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:19:40 AM PDT

  •  Coming Soon to a Convention near you (0+ / 0-)
  •  It's gonna be Pawlenty or Romney... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, mdmslle

    McCain really has no other options...

    "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

    by michael1104 on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:23:24 AM PDT

    •  I think it will be Eric Cantor (0+ / 0-)

      Because Cantor is ultra conservative but young, energetic, and comes across as quite nice and decent.

      The one thing we know about the McCain that they're very good at negative campaigns, they're not so good at governing- Barack Obama

      by wishingwell on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:53:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Picking Romney or Huckabee would be crazy (6+ / 0-)

    I'd assume most people here didn't watch all the Republican debates. They were fun, because Ron Paul was used as a punching bag to show how they'd attack Democrats on foreign policy, and sure enough, they kept talking about appeasement and accusing Ron Paul of being a terrorist sympathizer.

    There was a feud between Huckabee and Romney during the primaries, where Romney kept trying to distort Huckabee's record on illegal immigration. Huckabee wanted high school students that don't have citizenship and make all A's to be able to get scholarships, and he wanted illegal immigrants that go back to their country, apply for citizenship, and return to get back benefits, but Romney kept simplifying it to that he wanted 'Mexicans to leech off your wallet.'

    Romney was asked about an attack ad during a debate. He said they didn't recall the ad. They played the ad. In it, Mitt Romney appeared at the end endorsing the ad. Governor Romney already has a reputation as a renowned, opportunistic liar that changes positions like a chameleon crawling through a vat of assorted Skittles.

    Huckabee, meanwhile, had a "Don't they believe Jesus and the Devil are brothers?" gaffe and believed people with AIDS should be "isolated" a few decades ago. Those are extremely minor gaffes compared to everything McCain has done, but political gaffes in the media are like gases trying to fill a container. The less you make, the more the media blows each individual one up, because it's more shocking when you catch Peter St. Prince walking into the porno shop than Larry Craig.

    The real kicker for Huckabee would be his promise during the primaries that he would [i]not[/i] attack a Democratic opponent like Romney had been doing, making himself out to be the only honest perpetrator of politics in the Republican primaries. John McCain has already taken the muddy, low road. Either Huckabee breaks his promise, or he becomes a liability.

  •  I'm fucking sick and tired of these war mongering (7+ / 0-)

    hateful lunatics being called "value voters".

    What values? They care for the unborn but once the kid is born it can fend for itself and tough titties if the kid just happens to be poor, ill, unable to obtain a proper education or anything darker than a pasty shade of white.

    What values? Did they cry out when our service men and women were given Vietnam-era equipment (at best)? Did they rush in droves down to New Orleans when our government acted like the 3 blind mice in face of a national catastrophe and embarrassment?

    What values? Did they give a shit about Terry Schiavo's quality of life, her own wishes, before they had the audacity to claim from Washington(!) that she isn't really brain dead at all?

    What values? Did they blink or ask questions when our civil liberties were rampaged by a government bent on racial profiling of anyone of Mideast descent?

    So next time you assholes from the right dare to call yourselves value voters, ask yourselves this. Would Jesus put his name on a single issue which you hold dear?

    If you lame shitfaced pricks are value voters I'm damn proud to lack any of those values.

    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire ::Winston Churchill::

    by Jeremy10036 on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:31:57 AM PDT

    •  A lot of churches did run to New Orleans. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      missLotus, upperleftedge, lurks a lot

      They were some of the best first responders out there.  But I agree with your overall point.

      You can't be the land of the free, if you aren't the home of the brave - The Wonder Moron

      by dogheaven on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:39:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A lot of hippies showed up (6+ / 0-)

        in the Gulf Coast to help out too, notably the Rainbow Family and the Oregon Country Fair people. But in truth a lot of just plain Americans showed up to help. It was Bush and his friends that failed again. It seems like we would unite against the common enemy.

        Everybody eats, nobody hits.

        by upperleftedge on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:08:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  For a Week (3+ / 0-)

        New Orleans is still badly screwed. Even worse than it was for generations prior to Katrina. Where were these Christians then? Where are they now?

        They showed up for 15 minutes of media hype. Other than that, they sit at home, smiling approvingly as "god punishes the sinners", or maybe to parade around town with "God Hates Fags" / "Matthew Shepard Burns in Hell" signs (actual Christians I saw all the time when I lived in New Orleans), or maybe just to ban porno books and movies from public sale or screening. You know: exorcising their own demons by bashing New Orleans.

        Real Christians sacrifice their lives on Jesus' instructions to help the poor and the disadvantaged. America's Christians want to get saved on TV.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:35:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  They value (hold in high regard) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Coffee Geek

      only one thing, authority.  In the family context, that refers to the "author" of life--i.e. the fellow who activates the egg with his sperm--and, in turn, derives his claim to rule from that very act.  So, the potential for paternity is what starts it all off.

      From the base in the family, authority expands to rule the rest of society.  Which, of course, is why the family is so important.  It's the prototype of social organization.  If you remove potential paternity, there's nothing on which to base the male authority to rule.

      It seems natural for us to think that whatever action is taken that affects us, is about us.  The reality is that it's not.  Authoritarian males are opposed to homosexual behavior because homosexuals deny the importance of potential paternity as a source of authority.  Worse, they not only deny it, but disprove it by getting along well with other men and women.

      (I mean, if homosexuality is genetic, how come they keep being reproduced despite their claim not to be having sexual relations with women?  Huh?  Explain that!) snark

      Clearly, homosexual men who get along well with women and even, like Barney Frank, lead, demonstrate that potential paternity is not a prerequisite for power and authority.  So, they're a threat to what gives meaning to heterosexual male existence.

      Easy for you to say, "Get a life."

      How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

      by hannah on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:48:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What has happened ? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    We all know how the GOP panders to the religious fundies ; but what does it say about the US now when someone (Mittens) , is being given flack for his own religious beliefs (regardless of how ridiculous his religion truly is to you and I)?

    Add to that , last night we have the 2 presidential candidates parading themselves in front of a bunch religious yahoos , while being interviewed/questioned by a friggin' PASTOR ?????

    What in the hell happened to being a SECULAR NATION ?

  •  The GOP has a large schism? (0+ / 0-)

    I'm playing the world's tiniest violin for them.

    An eye for an eye and the whole world will be blind.

    by rini6 on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:36:14 AM PDT

  •  Values voters (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, nautilus1700, echatwa

    Guess people who aren't evangelical Christians don't have values.

    •  Values voters as opposed to (0+ / 0-)

      high value detainees?

      "Values" is a fungible word.  

      How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

      by hannah on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:33:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I was talking to a Nun who refused (4+ / 0-)

      to watch this Faith Forum. While she is anti abortion, she is also firmly anti death penalty, anti war, and anti torture.

      She calls them the Ultimate Hypocrites. She says she knows the Catholic Church is filled with problems and hypocrisy but she gets tired of Evangelicals thinking they run this country and that they are the only ones who care about values.

      The one thing we know about the McCain that they're very good at negative campaigns, they're not so good at governing- Barack Obama

      by wishingwell on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:59:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  please accept that any negative (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    narrative only applies to Democrats

    The press are unbelievably soft on Republicans and McCain.  He and his party get to operate in ways that would have sunk Obama before he even started.  This includes the NYTimes, which seems to have settled itself comfortably in GOP territory (Frank Rich notwithstanding--the liberal voices in the paper seem to be offering the only balance to their right-handed coverage these days).  

    Will that change as the election moves forward?

    •  Actually, the NY Times is covering this. (0+ / 0-)

      And it is being posted on the MSNBC news Website.

      Check it out here.

      Sometimes, I think that many on this blog are a little too quick to blast the MSM.

      Obama/Richardson '08 beats McCain/whoever

      by MikePhoenix on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 01:58:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I understand your feeling (0+ / 0-)

        I think that many on this blog are a little too quick to blast the MSM.

        but as an avid New York Times reader, I have been appalled by their recent choices.  The seem to have been using the front page (down left) to run stories that will hurt Obama, and give McCain the easier treatment.  That they put Corsi's book on the front page, and still have not mentioned ONE WORD about Ron Suskind's explosive book is a mystery to me.   As the paper of record, I hold them to a higher standard than the TV stations, which I don't watch.  If they start to balance out and give McCain a closer look, I'll back off.

      •  'scant coverage' is not 'no coverage' (0+ / 0-)

        but it is inadequate.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 03:13:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Whose media? Not mine! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    With our media, that narrative only applies to Democrats.

    [Emphasis added.]

    Not to pick nits -- we all know what you mean -- maybe it's time to disavow all connection with the traditional/"mainstream"/conventional news media.  They certainly aren't "our" media in the sense that we own them.  Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes and their ilk own them.  They're scarcely "ours" in the sense that most folks here on Daily Kos have allegiance to them, even to the extent of having favorites whom we read or watch regularly.  (Except for Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Kieth Olbermann, and Paul Krugman, I don't extend any of them the 'benefit' of the doubt; the rest get the 'penalty of the doubt' from me.  I assume they're lying or flacking.)  

    Those media outlets are "ours" only in the sense of being our opponents.  It's time we started bristling at the insulting suggestion that we are, or want to be, associated with the CCCP -- the Corporate Controlled Conservative Press.

    We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

    by david78209 on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:44:49 AM PDT

  •  Good read. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Thanks DemfromCT. Good stuff here.

    Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow

    by Pager on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:44:56 AM PDT

  •  I am a home schooling mama (4+ / 0-)

    and so the Mike Farris comment stood out.  His organization is THE mouthpiece for the extreme fundamentalist wing of the Republican party - the one that has mostly home schooled children and loves Dobson and all his wingnuttery.  If McCain chooses "wrong" in his mind and he "doesn't vote Republican" he will never vote Democratic Party.  So that means that the wingnuttery tribe will go for Barr or stay home, which means Obama WINS in a landslide.  

  •  Evangelial vote (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Mcnero may win that vote by similiar margins, however, yet again the MSM is out to lunch on what really matters here: turn out.  The enthusiasm for Mcnero is just not there.  Folks are not going to come out in big numbers as they did for Bush in Ohio, Florida and other huge swing states.  It wont matter what percentage Obama can get because when Evangelicals look at Mccain they see a nasty cough medicine choice and no matter how much some mums plead, many of thm will spit that syrup back and decide coughing is preferable

  •  The Media Loves a Weakened Winner (0+ / 0-)

    The reason the media loves a fight between, say, Clinton and Obama, or between WcCain and Romney, or between Obama and WcCain, is not just because of the lurid details of the fight itself. The media loves it because the fight weakens both the loser and the winner. Which creates a power vacuum into which the media inexorably moves.

    When a loser gets into a fight, that might make the news, but not the headlines. Edwards' affair was a trivial media event. Like if Lindsey Lohan and Brittney Spears got into a fight now, after they've both turned into losers. A minor story that would at most generate titters. But if Paris Hilton and Angelina Jolie got into a fight, we'd hear nothing but fight news until after Labor Day.

    The corporate mass media is fixated on winners, and wastes little time on losers. So long as WcCain is still a "winner", Romney and Huckabee could send hooded assassins after each other and it would just make some marginal "weird news" segment for 30 seconds, to get ahead of the real story.

    Starting in November, once WcCain is reduced to a loser with no future, Romney and Huckabee's feud might make some headlines, if they do something surprising (like Huckabee saying something sadistic, or Romney giving big to an Evangelist charity). Because they'll become "winners": dueling heirs apparent to the decaying Republican throne.

    Which is why they're publicly feuding now. Because the media is rigged not to care. We're right to pay attention, to exploit the weakness in the Republican Party that their feud exposes now. But hoping the corporate mass media will be interested is folly. Unless Huckabee is caught in bed with Paris Hilton's corpse, or Romney with a live Naked Boy, the only headlines are going to be about Obama and WcCain, even if they never get into a catfight. Though since WcCain has already been clawing at Obama, the fix is in.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:18:30 AM PDT

  •  That Romney is still being pushed for (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, MikePhoenix, echatwa

    McCain's VP after his complete rejection by Republican voters makes it painfully clear the real ruling elite want him in power.

    I really hope they get their way.

  •  McWrinkle is gonna pick the Huck. (0+ / 0-)

    Bet on it.

    No one here likes either of 'em, but Huck is one hell of a campaigner.

    •  Would that be wrong side of the cross Huck? (0+ / 0-)

      Don't think so. He's not their boy.

    •  towards the end of the primary, Huckleberry (0+ / 0-)

      started to channel Man on Dog. The media barely covered it because Huck was losing badly by then. But it was touched on. We need to go back and dig up those quotes, to have them ready in case McBush picks Man on Squirrel Huckleberry.

      The one thing we know about the McCain that they're very good at negative campaigns, they're not so good at governing- Barack Obama

      by wishingwell on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 10:03:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm from Massachusetts and can tell you. Romney (4+ / 0-)

    wouldn't carry the state in any election.  We made a big mistake with him.  As for the Presidential races, we always vote the right way.  Nixon didn't carry the state, nor did the two Bushies.  If the rest of the country would just follow our lead, we'd be a lot better off.  And Mr. McGoo could retire to assisted living.

    •  Yeah, he left office here (0+ / 0-)

      with some of the starkest favorability rating ever seen in the Bay State. Something like negative-20-percent. At least he got them to finally start electing Democrats to the Governorship again.

  •  Step on my toes a lot had Romney on (0+ / 0-)

    and Huckabee as a counterpoint.  Daschle was representing Obama.

    Nobody made the point that Georgia started bombing Ossetia and that Georgia cut off Ossetia's water a month ago.  

    How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

    by hannah on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:29:06 AM PDT

  •  White guy feud (0+ / 0-)

    is why the media isnt covering it, because no one wants to see old white guys fighting ... Pesky kids get off my lawn!

  •  The media have their not-so-objective slant... (0+ / 0-)

    Maybe that's why public opinion of them is as low as, oh I don't know... congress?

    License they mean, when they cry Liberty! - Milton

    by Rocco Gibralter on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:35:28 AM PDT

  •  Which is why Governor Pawlenty may be the pick: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    He is acceptable to both wings of the GOP.
    He also has been able to appeal to Independents in Minnesota.
    Would he turn Minnesota red? Unless Ralph Nader approaches his 2000 number of votes in the state I kind of doubt it.
    However, Tim Pawlenty is acceptable to Evangelicals,Sam's Club Republicans and probably even Wall Street Republicans (though they would rather have Romney).
    He would be a low risk/low reward choice, but that just might be enough.

  •  Evangelist don't like Romney because his Mormon (0+ / 0-)

    30% of the republican votes are evangelicals and that is a very large segment of their voting population. Will McCain be willing to alienate them if he picks Romney?

    Huckabee I think should be the VP. He can rally the evangelical votes and he speaks their language. Romney seems too much of a used care salesman and really can't be trusted.

    I hope Obama picks Romney. It will help rally some of the conservatives towards McCain but it won't help bring out the votes among republicans.

    Romney is smarter than McCain when it comes to the economy. Some think he should be president rather than McCain. But many still doubt they can get along. I also doubt it. Therefore I don't think its going to be Romney.

  •  MSM "missing"? Try ignoring and you will (0+ / 0-)

    be much closer to the mark.  For liberal/progressive Democrats and politicians, the goal is to ignore, marginalize and discredit via disingenuous ways and just plain lying.  When the Corporate MSM can't do that, then analyze every fart if it can be used against them in the pursuit of the aforementioned goal.  For Rethuglicans, shitting all over the country and the world, literally, is ho-hum, nothing to see here, never mind, move along.  When they can't do that, then twist it enough to make it sound like a virtue--Ken Lay, "Free market Champion", Bush, "strong decisive leader", etc.  

    Oh, don't forget "balance" where stealing a candy bard and stealing a country are on the same level.

    It's amazing that so many still need to catch on to this, still.

    You don't negotiate with fascists, you defeat them in the name of democracy. --Ambr. Joe Wilson

    by FightTheFuture on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 11:10:02 AM PDT

  •  One thing: (0+ / 0-)

    That fundraiser?  With Richardson and Hillary?  It's for Hillary's debt.  Least that's what Big Bill said.

    John McCain voted against health care for kids.

    by Land of Enchantment on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 08:14:02 AM PDT

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