Skip to main content

I grew up in Long Island, NY which at the time was probably the most conservative place of any significant size in America.  I still have roots there to this day and while Queens is technically Long Island (as is Brooklyn), Long Island is more commonly perceived to be Nassau County and Suffolk County.  Long Island is slightly more liberal than conservative today but there was a time where it was the conservative cesspool capital of America.  Ronald Reagan got almost 80% of the vote on Long Island in 1984, his highest percentage of any area of size in the entire country, more so than any Southern state.

To understand Long Island, you must understand its roots.  Prior to WW II it was a rural area but then became the first major suburb with the building of the Levitt houses.  In the late 40s and early 50s there was a mass exodus from cities to burbs but it was all about race.  If you were black, Asian, or Hispanic, you were not allowed to buy a Levitt home.  Most people who initially came to Long Island came because they didn't want to be around minorities.

Thus many of the people who came to Long Island in the forties, fifties, and sixties were pure trash, the bottom of the human barrel.  And since apples usually don't fall far from trees, many of the children who grew up on Long Island also became the bottom of the barrel.  Prominent right wing nutcases like Al D'Amato, Peter King, Bill O'Reilly, Richard Bond, and Handy Hannity are all products of this conservative cesspool.  

To simplify what Long Island is like, you have to imagine the 3 worst kinds of conservative stereotypes that I have come up with. Forgive me for my oversimplifications for I am fully aware that I am overstating and overgeneralizing. (

First, there's the Alabama Conservative.  The Alabama Conservative is a violent, racist, bigoted prick with neo nazis leanings.  He's poor, low class, and just plain trash. This kind of conservative thinks it's okay to burn crosses, smash mailboxes, be part of a lynch mob, and be violent to those deemed as "liberal" or "faggots."  Long Island has many of these dirtbags.  Cross burnings, anti-Semitic graffiti, violence, and yes even the burning of houses because its occupants were black has happened multiple times on Long Island in the past few years. Synagogues get vandalized, Hispanics perceived as day laborers are attacked, and African Americans are still targeted for violence merely because of their skin color. Long Island has tons of crimes and most of it goes unreported.

Second, you have the Cobb County Conservative (Georgia).  The Cobb County Conservative is the Get Off My Lawn Conservative.  He or she tends to be middle class but wants govt to provide services for him and him only while he hides out in some gated community or isolated suburb.  Imagine the next door neighbor in the movie American Beauty.  The Cobb County Conservative is one screw away from pulling a Eric Rupert Murdoch or Timothy McVeigh but doesn't do so because he doesn't want to lose his middle class way of life. The CCC is paranoid about minorities.  His life is mostly going to work, coming home to the suburb, locking the doors, and hiding in his home.  His social skills tend to be pathetic.  He's an utter hypocrite and totally void of conscience and humanity.  Think Newt Gingrich.

Third, you have the Orange County Conservative (California).  This used to be Bob Dornan territory.  The Orange County Conservative is upscale economically but is totally classless in terms of values despite being mostly well educated.  He and she tend to be racist and xenophobic except when they need a babysitter or someone to mow the lawn.  They tend to be dysfunctional, highly shallow, overly materialistic, and grow up in those stereotypical loveless homes where what kind of car you drive or whose basement is being remodeled is far more important than the joys and challenges of life.  Think Valley Girls and Fraternity bullies living off daddy's trust fund.  If you ever went to college with people from Long Island, there's a strong chance you like know like you know oh my god like you know like didn't like you know like like the person or felt you know like pity for them.

Now, take my stereotypes and overgeneralizations of the Alabama, Cobb County, and Orange County conservatives and mold them into one person.  What you end up with in many instances is the Long Island Conservative, perhaps the most disgusting creature ever to walk the face of America.

I often say that there isn't a place in America that can't be liberalized and that every place in America could be more liberal than conservative.
Long Island, in 25 years, moved from very conservative to slightly more liberal than conservative.  While it is still home to some very deranged and very conservative people, Long Island is definitely nowhere near as conservative as it used to be.

The deconservatization of Long Island occurred because enough people finally had enough and had the courage to speak truth to power.  Long Island was run by right wing Republicans for decades and they made Tammany Hall look like a modicum of ethical virtue.  

There is still plenty of right wing garbage all throughout Long Island.  There are still race based violence, xenophobic hate crimes, rapes, assaults against women, anti-Semitic attacks, property crimes, and other loathsomes behaviors initiated primarily by the right wing pieces of excrement that still inhabit substantial parts of Long Island.  

The lessons of Long Island are that conservatism can be defeated anywhere but only if people will speak truth to power and do so fearlessly. There was no place in America more conservative than Long Island a generation or two ago and now Long Island has been mostly deconservatized.  And if Long Island can be deconservatized, then every county in every state can be deconservatized as well.

Originally posted to davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 06:54 AM PDT.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  tipjar (15+ / 0-)

    I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

    by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 06:54:46 AM PDT

  •  ROFLMAO! (3+ / 0-)

    One caviat... I mean, caveat: I think you're undercounting the "other" LI. Have you ever checked out the rural slum areas outside of Bellport, for instance? Where is James Agee when we need him?

    Founder and CFO, The Giddiyap Society.

    by Trotsky the Horse on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:00:01 AM PDT

  •  I take it you'e not (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oldjohnbrown, davefromqueens

    The Man who Loved Levittown?

    Without Long Island, we'd be missing half of Gordon Ramsay's best shows, Zippy the Pinhead, & Yaz.

  •  Do you have equally accurate stereotypes (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MajorFlaw, Rich in PA, bottles
    for any other races, creeds, colors, national origions, or sexual orientations? Please, don't stop here, your bigotry is fascinating.

    I voted with my feet. Good Bye and Good Luck America!!

    by shann on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:01:56 AM PDT

    •  Sadly, there are many on Long Island who (3+ / 0-)

      deserve to be stereotyped in this fashion.

      I could bore you with personal accounts from my childhood on LI, but, I'd prefer not to dredge up those memories.

    •  If you actually read the entire diary (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Joffan, ImpeachKingBushII

      Instead of assuming what I wrote,

      you might have noticed that I openly acknowledged that I am overstating, oversimplifying, and overgeneralizing.

      However, that would require actually reading what I wrote instead of guessing what I wrote based on a peripheral scanning of the content.

      I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

      by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:06:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's nice that Dave stayed in Queens. (4+ / 0-)

      I'm not sure that gives him any right to characterize those who didn't.  Racism was and continues to be a factor in suburbanization, but the idea of moving from an apartment or row house to a quarter-acre tract home is compelling to a lot of people.  (Even to minorities, otherwise Levitt wouldn't have bothered putting in a color bar in Levittown.)  The Kinks song "Shangri-La" comes to mind: you get suburbanization even where White Flight is an irrelevance.  

      -5.38/-3.74 I've suffered for my country. Now it's your turn! --John McCain with apologies to Monty Python's "Protest Song"

      by Rich in PA on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:09:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Classic bigdave: (8+ / 3-)

        many of the people who came to Long Island in the forties, fifties, and sixties were pure trash, the bottom of the human barrel.  And since apples usually don't fall far from trees, many of the children who grew up on Long Island also became the bottom of the barrel.

        Not a fact in sight.  

        The Alabama Conservative is a violent, racist, bigoted prick with neo nazis leanings.  He's poor, low class, and just plain trash. This kind of conservative thinks it's okay to burn crosses, smash mailboxes, be part of a lynch mob, and be violent to those deemed as "liberal" or "faggots."  Long Island has many of these dirtbags.

        This should be interesting...

        •  Please stay out of my diaries Troll (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kestrel9000, chigh, Randgrithr

          You don't want me commenting in your threads.

          We all know you are a troll and that your primary purpose at this site is to hijack threads, dampen enthusiasm, show concern, and try to make mountains out of molehills.  How many Democrats have you driven from this site?  How much money have you cost Markos with your hatred and smear tactics?

          Considering your history of stalking my diaries, I think my request is reasonable.  If you can not honor it, I will bring it to the immediate attention of the administration.  (and that includes your sidekick "bottles" or any other person that you email on the side for the purpose of harassing members at this site.)

          I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

          by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:36:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wow, that may be the worst d0nut you've ever (7+ / 2-)

            dropped on me.  If I had no scruples--like you--I could easily TR you for:

            We all know you are a troll and that your primary purpose at this site is to hijack threads, dampen enthusiasm, show concern, and try to make mountains out of molehills.

            You would certainly TR me for that, shit you TRed me for absolutely nothing here.

            I will bring it to the immediate attention of the administration.

            Please do, I insist.  Show them the latest example of your exemplary citizenship here.  Do it.

          •  I think you hit a nerve, Dave :) (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kestrel9000, davefromqueens

            LOL! The shoe fits and the truth hurts. I think you've got a live example of what you're talking about on the hook here, eh?

            I found a way to differ with you on the same subject that was a bit more productive and courteous. Vive le difference. :)

            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:50:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I can't say that's the worst d0nut you've ever (7+ / 2-)

              dropped on me, not while this one is still around.

              •  Oh, you're HR on sight at this point (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kestrel9000, davefromqueens

                Have another. You've earned every single one. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

                Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:56:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Dish what out Randy? (4+ / 2-)

                  I've never dropped a bad d0nut on you, bigdave or anyone else here.  I have no problem dealing with any of you and I can do so without dropping bad d0nuts. Remember, both feuds started when you and dave couldn't handle the heat in your own frikking diaries and started dropping bad TRs on me.  Didn't work then and won't work now.  How many have you got left--three.  Make yourself happy and leave an ugly trail.  This is so predictable.  

                  •  Any reasonable person (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    raboof, davefromqueens, Randgrithr

                    reading this thread can easily see your sole intent here is to pick a fight.
                    I can see no rational way you can defend your behavior here.
                    You are stalking and trolling. And you need to stop.

                    John McCain is a dishonorable, lying shitbag who is unfit to be President. Of ANYTHING.

                    by kestrel9000 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:13:45 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  If you've never dropped a bad donut on Randy (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kestrel9000

                    it's because you seem to be confusing me with someone else. But hey, stick with what you're good at - being wrong. It'll get you places.

                    Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                    by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:14:34 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I sent it to administration (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      raboof, Randgrithr

                      Clearly, everyone who is objective can see what is going on.

                      However, the mere fact that the same group of people show up to uprate trollish comments time and time again well after a diary is off the list and even in instances where a comment is not hidden seemingly indicates that there are multiple email accounts working hand and hand to game the rules here.

                      I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                      by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:24:31 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Personally, I think it was a legitimate (6+ / 0-)

                        objection to an offensive set of stereotypes, and I think that while MajorFlaw should, having made his point, move on rather than letting himself be drawn into a petty personal dispute, the ratings abuse in this thread is absurd.

                        •  Familiarize yourself with the history (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          raboof

                          of Majorflaw's stalking and trolling behavior.

                          If you want the HRs removed, deal with that user and his consistent abuse of the system.

                          Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                          by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:35:45 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  Policy ruling needed now (0+ / 0-)

                          Does the Kos administration approve of MajorFlaw's behavior?

                          •  Agreed (0+ / 0-)

                            There is someone in administration who apparently is taking MF's side when he or she shouldn't be and is letting down this site.  I would further ask that this person not be permitted to speak for this site anymore.

                            I have always followed the rules here and bent over backwards to adhere to what administrator's are saying.

                            MFs behavior has led to hundreds, if not thousands of good people leaving this site.  let's not lose anymore.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:57:07 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes, this question needs answering (0+ / 0-)

                            and they need to also take a look at his possible use of sockpuppet accounts to reinforce his abuses.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:00:08 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  If you have evidence (5+ / 0-)

                            of sockpuppetry or other rules violations, please send them to an admin. That's how you should always deal with such -- bearing in mind of course that you want to have solid evidence.

                          •  Question for Miss Laura (0+ / 0-)

                            I've explained my HR ratings to an administrator.

                            I've also said that I will ALWAYS remove an HR if requested to do so by an adminstrator.

                            Are you going to restore the TU status of the people in this thread or lose us all?  Whoever in the adm. who acted against me and others acted wrongly.  Either the mistake gets fixed or I leave the site.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:58:46 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  We'll discuss that. (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            acerimusdux, PaintyKat, bottles

                            The problem is, it's not really an effective system for us to be following people around requesting the removal of specific ratings. We have to trust that you'll exercise judgment and just not give abusive ratings.

                            But your request will be considered -- on its merits, not because of the threat that you'll leave.

                          •  email me privately please (0+ / 0-)

                            barb has my email.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 03:29:16 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I sent you an email (0+ / 0-)

                            This way it's private and not on the thread.  Please feel free to email me back upon receipt and ask any questions regarding such.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 04:26:06 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Another question for Miss Laura (0+ / 0-)
                            1.  I have definitive proof that a user linked to the real name of a person here.  Given what happened to droogie, I want a ruling to know whether or not this will result in an autoban?
                            1.  I have definitive proof that a person in this thread used two nics at the same time and posted comments with both over the same time period.  If that is indeed the case, will this result in an autoban?

                            I want clarification b/c I don't speak for the site.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:51:42 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  TRed for bullying and flagrant lying (0+ / 0-)
                •  Knock it off (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  acerimusdux, mcfly, trashablanca, bottles

                  And read the FAQ.

                  Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

                  by Barbara Morrill on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:23:15 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  No. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    raboof

                    You read the FAQ. The creep came into this thread to troll and pick fights. He gets what he gets. Deal with it.

                    Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                    by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:28:08 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I repeat (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      acerimusdux, trashablanca, bottles

                      Read the FAQ. One more inappropriate HR and your ability to rate will be gone.

                      Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

                      by Barbara Morrill on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:39:17 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Let's see some fairness then (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        raboof, anathema

                        Put that useless piece of shit on a choke chain. He's the one who came in here picking gratuitious fights, not me. He's driven far too many people off this site who had real contributions to make.

                        If you do this to me and not him, you're showing yourself and this entire site as biased and corrupt. And no, I don't care who you are. I shouldn't have to.

                        Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                        by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:44:54 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I repeat, for the last time (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Meteor Blades, trashablanca, bottles

                          Read the FAQ. One more inappropriate HR and your ability to rate will be gone.

                          Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

                          by Barbara Morrill on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:47:42 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Actually read my comments (0+ / 0-)

                            or continue to expect me to not give a flying sideways fuck what you threaten me with.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:51:04 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  no threats (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            trashablanca, bottles

                            just get a grip.

                            and do read the FAQ.

                            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                            by Greg Dworkin on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:53:49 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  My position stands and long may it wave. (0+ / 0-)

                            I have a grip.

                            What you need is to step back and get a clue about what's going on here. Don't tell ME what to read when you clearly haven't seen who's really abusing the system in this thread.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:00:02 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  RAND PLEASE STOP (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            acerimusdux

                            Barb and Dem speak for the site so you MUST respect and honor what they are requesting.

                            People can see the other parts of the thread themselves and judge accordingly.

                            As for my HRs, if asked by an administrator to defend them and give the reasons why, I will do so.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:03:05 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  arguing with a mod is like arguing with a parent (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Meteor Blades, trashablanca, bottles

                            I don't really care who hit who first. ;-P

                            Just knock it off.

                            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                            by Greg Dworkin on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:03:58 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Well you should care (0+ / 0-)

                            Because this person is a major liability to forthright and intelligent discussion on this site.

                            Yes, he started it. My HRs stand. Every one of them - until you people put that creep on a choke chain. He is NOTHING but a liability. Deal with him.

                            And you are not my parent. You have some nerve. Get over yourself. I have held root on every type of system from .gov to .edu and in 20 years of the business I never put on such airs with any of my users. Christ.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:08:32 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  RAND STOP (0+ / 0-)

                            The adms. have this right.  it is a private site.  They can make business decisions for themselves.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:12:19 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That's fine. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            raboof, anathema

                            But their right to tell me what to do only goes so far.

                            They have a responsibility to all the users of this site - including myself. And I have rights as a member of this site.

                            If they don't deal with Major Malfunction's consistent stalking and trolling, they're not doing their job.

                            If they try to punish ME for dealing with him from the only level that I can, there's a serious problem with the integrity of this site.

                            And I'm willing to put my TU status and indeed my very presence on DailyKos on the line to expose that problem if I have to. The guy is out of control. He needs to be dealt with.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:22:33 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I totally understand (0+ / 0-)

                            And I'm hoping cooler heads will prevail and that this issue can be dealt with privately.

                            As for this site, they CAN tell you what to do because it is their site.  I purchased my own domain (davefromqueens.com) a couple of weeks ago and I would have the right, once I get it going, to make any rule I want for my site.  Theoretically I could kick a person off because they type consonants.

                            I've brought to the attention of administration that several hundred real and contributing Democrats who have positive impacts have been lost for the aforesaid reasons and I don't want that to happen to you or others.

                            The last thing this site needs is a mass exodus of high profile diarists 6 weeks before an election and I don't think any of the administrators want that to happen.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:37:40 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  DailyKos is a resource (0+ / 0-)

                            that clearly does not need to be contributed to positively in order to be used.

                            When users like Majorflaw have their objectionable behavior rewarded and standards are unevenly applied to this degree, I certainly can and will go elsewhere to actually contribute. I'm on VetVoice, I'm on LJ, and I think Lo Auer wouldn't mind the occasional posting of mine on Dandelion Salad. DailyKos is not the be-all and end-all, and they are lucky to have me whether they know it or not. The Rovian types know how lucky - they've been trying to drive me off this site from the very beginning. :)

                            Any loss here will not be mine.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:47:46 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That is, of course, your choice. (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PaintyKat, trashablanca, bottles

                            But if you decide you like it here and want to stick around, we expect you to abide by site rules.

                            That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. We have site rules for a reason, after all.

                            "Intelligence and stupidity have no limits. Unfortunately it looks like stupidity has won" -Arsene Wenger

                            by Arjun Jaikumar on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:22:18 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You aren't exactly making it appealing (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            vox humana

                            if one user can troll and start fights with impunity but the people who deal with that trolling as best they can are punished for showing their disapproval.

                            The very definition of unreasonable. If you're applying standards to me, apply them also to him. Why is that not happening?

                            You know what this reminds me of? Conyers kicking Cindy Sheehan out of the impeachment hearing for "breaking the rules", while Rove walks around scot free.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:10:39 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Regardless (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Meteor Blades, trashablanca, bottles

                            of how impressive your resume may be, that doesn't make you exempt from site rules. Nor MajorFlaw or anyone else.

                            Knock it off.

                            "Intelligence and stupidity have no limits. Unfortunately it looks like stupidity has won" -Arsene Wenger

                            by Arjun Jaikumar on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:20:28 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  From the FAQs (0+ / 0-)

                            Dealing with trolls

                            Trolling is a sad reality of internet life. Most trolls tend to be blatant, posting comments or diaries that are clearly intended to provoke an angry response. Other trollish messages are posted simply to disrupt the conversation in a diary.

                            Each of my Hrs (and I speak only for me) fit EXACTLY into the above.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:25:42 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  FIX. THE. REAL. PROBLEM. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            raboof

                            I make a positive contribution to this site.

                            Majorflaw's only contribution is to drive people off the site - and many of those people, like myself, make - or WOULD have made - positive contributions to your community.

                            Now stop wasting your time with me and deal with your other, very real problem.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:29:37 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  I don't think that objecting (4+ / 0-)

                          to the grotesque set of stereotypes put forth in this diary is gratuitous.

                          And telling the person who is in fact abusing ratings to stop abusing ratings, while not telling the person who is not abusing ratings the same thing, is not biased.

                          •  And somehow I managed to do so (0+ / 0-)

                            without offending the diarist. As a matter of fact, the diarist ended up reccing my comments. And he ended up learning some things he didn't know.

                            Whereas all Major Malfunction managed to do was what he does best, which is piss in the communal cornflakes.

                            When he is properly dealt with by this site's admins, I'll take my HRs back. AND NOT BEFORE.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:04:05 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  65 comments and counting (0+ / 0-)

                            are posted here that would NOT be posted here if 1 user did not violate the FAQs.

                            I alluded to the exact section in this thread.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:30:26 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And that one user (0+ / 0-)

                            WAS NOT ME.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:37:57 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  FAQs (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            raboof

                            Dealing with trolls

                            Trolling is a sad reality of internet life. Most trolls tend to be blatant, posting comments or diaries that are clearly intended to provoke an angry response. Other trollish messages are posted simply to disrupt the conversation in a diary.

                            Laura this is what my Hrs were based upon.  If you want proof, take raboof's suggestion and look at the entire history of the commenter in question.

                            If you want further clarification as to my reasons behind the HRS to determine whether or not they were in good faith and in accordance with the rules of the site, please email me, inquire as to what you find objectionable on my part, and I will provide you with a proper response.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 07:27:39 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  My only comment on this jerkfest (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    acerimusdux, PaintyKat, MajorFlaw, bottles

                    Here are the lists for hydrates for Randgrither  and MajorFlaw. One of these has troll stench from dozens of hidden comments and one doesn't.  One was banned and reinstated multiple times, one wasn't.  One have them has been a rude and arrogant asshole in this thread and one hasn't.  You be the judge.

                    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." John Lennon

                    by trashablanca on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:51:38 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  By all means, yes. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      raboof, vox humana

                      While you're at it, one has recommended diaries and one doesn't.

                      As a matter of fact, one has diaries at all and one doesn't.

                      One has a purpose at this site that isn't hostile and antagonistic and one doesn't.

                      So by all means, yes, you be the judge. And good luck with that, but what's gone down on this thread is also going to sit right here for the jury to consider, as well.

                      Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                      by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:11:44 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You know (4+ / 0-)

                        it really is not your prerogative to unilaterally decide that MF is here solely to disrupt, and that you contribute, and therefore you can act as you please towards him.

                        This is a community moderated site. It's not yours to moderate by yourself.

                        You can think what you like of MF, and maybe you're right, but you'll have to make your case to the community while acting within site rules, I'm afraid.

                        "Intelligence and stupidity have no limits. Unfortunately it looks like stupidity has won" -Arsene Wenger

                        by Arjun Jaikumar on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:26:55 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I have already said (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          raboof

                          that I will withdraw the HRs when Majorflaw's completely out of control behavior is properly dealt with. That has not happened and if this is what I have to do to call attention to the issue, so be it.

                          I'll be in better company than many of you might think if I join the long, long list of people that he has driven away from this site.

                          Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                          by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:03:50 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  Here is my policy brownsox (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          raboof, vox humana

                          If YOU or any administrator asks me to remove an HR, I WILL do so even if I think you are 100% wrong.

                          Now I want to know the following:

                          1.  Who in administration is allowing Flaw to get away with this nonsense?
                          1.  Who in administration is applying 2 sets of rules, 1 for Flaw and 1 for Flaw's critics?
                          1.  Does Major Flaw speak for DailyKos?  (I do not see his name ANYWHERE on the FAQs as doing so.  this is known as a softball question.  The answer is obvious and are commonly asked in depositions.)

                          I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                          by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:07:38 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  Then for the record (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          raboof, vox humana

                          let it be known that randgrithr is not deciding this unilaterally.  I happen to concur.  And so do numerous others who have made comments and sent emails to the admins regarding this user.

                          And yet the admins continue to stick up for this user and allow him to harrass others repeatedly and do the very same things others are banned for.

                          It appears to many here that the admins are willfully allowing a double standard to operate regarding certain users.

                          And many people would like to know why.

                          •  more importantly (0+ / 0-)

                            There appears to be at least 1 administrator who is taking sides by unilaterally acting on Flaws behalf and not punishing Flaw for the same behavior.

                            Kos needs to identify that adm. and hopefully correct the action or remove that person from adm.  I've sent Kos an email on this subject and it's the only time I've ever emailed him.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:13:39 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Heh. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            trashablanca, bottles

                            "Intelligence and stupidity have no limits. Unfortunately it looks like stupidity has won" -Arsene Wenger

                            by Arjun Jaikumar on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 03:10:58 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  I also ask, _for the record_, (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          anathema

                          are MajorFlaw's actions, including bullying, stalking, thread highjacking, and outing user real names, authorized by the Kos administration?

                        •  see my comment (0+ / 0-)

                          I've mailed to you my questions and comments so they do not further appear on the thread.

                          Please respond as soon as possible.

                          I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                          by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 04:40:45 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I'll respond right here (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            vcmvo2, trashablanca, bottles

                            There is no double standard going on. The problem here was HR abuse, which was what I addressed. It seemed pointless to point out that an argument ends if you walk away. If you post a diary, chances are there will be people and/or comments that you don't like. Discuss, rebut, or ignore.

                            Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

                            by Barbara Morrill on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:12:11 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  and here is my response (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            raboof, vox humana

                            and I'll politely respond here as you are doing and accept your invitation to discuss.

                            There was no HR abuse by me and it's been long standing rules here that you don't deliberately enter a diary with the intent to disrupt or incite which is EXACTLY what happened here.

                            The HRs were given for precisely that reason by me and presumably by others.  Now I'm saying that reasonable people may disagree with my interpretation but if we are self moderating most of this site, does our justifiable interpretation of the rules carry any weight?

                            I think that's a fair question.  If the answer is an unqualified negative, then it would appear that a different set of rules were applied and I don't think we should have lost rand over this.

                            I also think raboof's question is very fair.  Sooner or later, DK is going to have to make a choice regarding the subject matter of raboof's question and either own or disown it.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 06:43:41 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

            •  and I recced your comment (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kestrel9000, Randgrithr

              Because it was part of a civil discussion and your point about the military is something I don't totally agree with although the old Grumman ties did play a role at the time.

              When someone requests of administration that I stay out of their threads and then deliberately hijacks my diary with the primary if not sole purpose of inciting and disrupting (FAQ definition of a troll) and additionally tries to use outing info (Imagine what would happen if I revealed all I know about "bottles") in that thread, I have no choice but to immediately HR and respond no further than my 1 response.

              I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

              by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:55:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I know you weren't aware of that aspect of it (3+ / 0-)

                so I provided what was missing. Grumman was actually late in the game. Remember Sperry Gyroscope in Great Neck? Sperry was the guy who invented the gyroscope, which allowed aircraft to travel in a stable manner through three dimensional space. Without that invention we would not have developed into a major air power and would not have any of the benefits of modern flight, including a space program.

                You'd really do well to check that museum out if you want to have a deep understanding of why Long Island has been so pro-military for generations.

                One of the reasons I became so angry at DoD was in the late 80's and early 90's they started pulling up stakes on Long Island and moving everything down to Texas, DC and Florida. They abandoned thousands of loyal engineers (like my father) and other workers who ended up having to open up pizza places, laundromats and mom n' pop candy stores to survive because they were all in their fifties and there was no where they could go locally. They hung good and loyal men out to dry or forced families with mortgages and homes and kids in school to pull up stakes and move. That's just pure and total bullshit, and it came straight from the same bastards who brought you today's crap too - Bush senior, Rumsfeld, and Cheney.

                I also hate with a passion the tendency of DoD and their contractors like Grumman, Sperry, Mitchell Field and now Photocircuits in Glen Cove to leave the steaming turds of their environmental contamination laying around to get into the groundwater. The corporate campuses lie forgotten for a while, then some developer buys it and paves over the nastiness (which continues to leach into the groundwater) and builds a shopping mall or condos on top of it. Then we get God's own shitload of cases of breast cancer and wonder why. Long Island has one of the highest rates of breast cancer in the world.

                I prefer the option of education to pointless argument and the generation of unnecessary angst. It's not why I'm here. It's rather clear that others choose to make that their specialty.

                Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:09:47 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I'm also curious (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kestrel9000

                What's with the reference to "bottles"?

                I have a feeling it's not quite this...

                Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:19:09 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  uprated only due to hr abuse (5+ / 0-)

          people with longstanding feuds should not be hring each other

          I am aware of all internet traditions

          by mcfly on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:54:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you need to stop (0+ / 0-)

            If you are aware of the history as you purport to be, then your uprate is abusive for this is clearly trollish behavior.

            Thus it is your uprate that is abusive and HR worthy for the reasons you imply.  

            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:58:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You're offering advice on ratings abuse? (4+ / 2-)

              That's hysterical.  There isn't a wisp of a justification for the d0nuts you and Randy dropped on me.  

              And don't threaten people:

              it is your uprate that is abusive and HR worthy for the reasons you imply.  

            •  more hr abuse by you (4+ / 0-)

              go for it, I will uprate you if the major trolls you, too.  Please explain exactly what he did that is worthy of an HR and I will remove the uprate.

              I am aware of all internet traditions

              by mcfly on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:00:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's a fair request (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mcfly, kestrel9000, Randgrithr
                1.  More than 2 years ago I had a previous nic at this site.  It is against site rules for anyone to post information about a current user's prior nics.  In fact my only hidden comment here in 2 years was HRed by the Major for what he asserts is exactly that.  Major did this in this thread but you may not know that.
                1.  Major and/or his sidekick "bottles" requested that I don't go into other people's diaries and comment On Major because of the long standing history.  It's a request I'm honoring.
                1.  The Major is NOT to go into any of my diaries or comment threads and do the same.  
                1.  Clearly his comment was not meant to add anything constructive.  Rich and Rand offered constructive criticisms.  Major's intent clearly was to disrupt and incite and hijack the thread and he has succeeded.
                1.  At this point, he gets HRed on site for the reasons above.
                1.  I will remove my HR and presume you will do the right thing regardless.

                I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:09:41 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  #5 (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  acerimusdux, trashablanca, bottles

                  is not a valid reason for HRing on sight, the only reason to do that is if someone is a troll who should be banned, none of the participants in this particular flamewar fall into that category.  I don't think the Major should come into your diaries either, but it doesn't violate the rules for him to do so.   Thank you for the explanation.

                  I am aware of all internet traditions

                  by mcfly on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:14:20 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The thread (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kestrel9000

                    should be hidden in its entirety starting with the initial comment that hijacked the thread.

                    Hijacking a thread is trollish.

                    Deliberately trying to pick a fight by entering the diary of a person you have a long standing feud with is trollish behavior.

                    This will be brought to the attention of administration and Flaw needs to stop his stalking of members that he has long time feuds with.

                    I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                    by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:19:00 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Not a hijack (5+ / 0-)

                      The comment you are objecting to is a comment directly on the content of the diary. Someone disagreeing with you is not a hijack.

                      •  wrong and right (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        kestrel9000, Randgrithr

                        The comment was meant to disrupt and hijack and includes "outing" information.  It's self evident and been sent to administration.

                        As for the 2nd part of your comment, you are 100% correct.  Merely disagreeing with me is not a hijack.  In fact several people here disagreed with parts of what I wrote and none of them were hijacking.

                        I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                        by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:12:24 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  OK (0+ / 0-)

                          I missed initially the "outing" information part.

                          But still, even if that's true, HR that one comment. You are not justified in mass HR rating his posts. That's a blatant violation. See the FAQ.

                          As for the personal information, it's not clear to me either that this was something private and deliberately revealed for nefarious purposes. Not everyone would be so sensitive about a former user ID.

                          I suppose it depends on the past history, how he knows this information, and whether he knew you wanted it private whether this was a deliberate provocation.

              •  I don't need the warning. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mcfly, trashablanca, bottles

                The only way I'd drop a d0nut on dave or Randy is if it's obvious, blatant and not for something said to or about me.  I've got a track record and so do they.

            •  I like all three of you... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              acerimusdux

              ...davefromqueens, major, and randgrithr. It's obvious(and I've checked the history here)to me that you three have had a long-running fued for whatever personal reason. I don't think kos makes trolls trusted users here. May I suggest you all agree to disagree and each of you please remove your HR's before an admin sees this battle and removes all of your ratings privileges. As one who likes and respects each one of you, I don't have a dog in this fight. Please stop it, will ya?

              "Great men do not commit murder. Great nations do not start wars". William Jennings Bryan

              by ImpeachKingBushII on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:11:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Being a trusted user (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kestrel9000, Randgrithr

                does not have a bearing on whether an individual comment gets TUed.

                It is for the reasons stated that I will no longer comment in Major's diaries or comment threads.  What do you think his purpose for entering this thread was?

                Also, his reference to "bigdave" is an automatic HR.

                oh, and btw I like you too. :)

                I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:14:48 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I caught and noted that... (5+ / 0-)

                  ...it really disappoints me when I see people here and (in real life outside of Dkos) I like and respect, that for some personal reason or conflict don't get along. I try to live by the golden rule. I said I try. Sometimes I fall short. We all do. I don't understand this fued. I'm not sure I want to get in the middle of it. I will continue to feel the same way about all of you after today and forget about it. Now will you all please reconsider your repsonses. If you really like me, my wish today is that you'll all try harder to get along. If not, at least agree to disagree and carry on. We've got a lot of work to do here to win this election and we're never going to get a second chance if we blow it.

                  "Great men do not commit murder. Great nations do not start wars". William Jennings Bryan

                  by ImpeachKingBushII on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:23:53 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Um... (4+ / 0-)

                each of you please remove your HR's

                There's nothing for me to remove.  That's kinda the point.  

              •  This creature needs an intervention (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kestrel9000

                and he's getting one.

                When he comes into threads where he is not welcome and trolls and picks fights with people he doesn't like, he's HR on sight. Not one donut dropped by me is being pulled. Not one.

                If you're concerned about him, talk to him offline - and get him the mental help he clearly needs.

                Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:30:37 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Again (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  acerimusdux, trashablanca, bottles

                  Knock it off. You don't get to decide who can or can't comment in a diary. And suggesting mental illness? Do you think it's okay to mock people who actually do suffer from that?

                  Once again, read the FAQ, stop with the HR abuse or your ability to rate will be pulled.

                  Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

                  by Barbara Morrill on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:37:58 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Again (0+ / 0-)

                    If this creature does not suffer from mental illness then he's cointelpro. He stalks people and trolls them for purely subjective reasons, and if he's doing so with impunity on this site then this site has a serious liability - which would appear to include YOU.

                    There's no excuse for his behavior here. None.

                    Either address THAT or expect me not to take you any kind of seriously.

                    Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                    by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:49:51 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  rand Stop (0+ / 0-)

                      There is no issue with Barb.

                      Her point about mental illness is correct.

                      She has the best interests of this site at heart and there is no need to argue with her.  If you want to speak to an administrator, email that person (perhaps Barb herself) privately.

                      I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                      by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:00:15 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  People with longstanding feuds (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            raboof, vox humana, davefromqueens

            should not enter diaries with the sole intent to perpetuate the feud and disrupt.
            Which is classic Major Flaw. It's like 70% of what he does on this site.
            He has never posted a diary, and it appears to me that his main purpose for being on the site is to engage in useless conflict.
            That is not the purpose of Daily Kos as I understand it.

            John McCain is a dishonorable, lying shitbag who is unfit to be President. Of ANYTHING.

            by kestrel9000 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:32:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have never posted a diary either (4+ / 0-)

              and would not be here if that was a requirement.  I have suggested Major back off before with respect to Dave, you, and others, and still think he should.  However, should is not the same thing as must under the rules.  And you are not entitled to keep everyone who disagrees with you, or even everyone who dislikes you personally, out of your diary.  As such, I don't think the parent comment was hr worthy.   YMMV.

              I am aware of all internet traditions

              by mcfly on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:38:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I am starting to observe from this (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kestrel9000, vox humana

                that these rules actually reward pointless conflict as implemented by certain players.

                And that's not a good thing.

                Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:18:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  you don't get to decide who visits a diary (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              trashablanca, kestrel9000, bottles

              period.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:10:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Okay let me clarify? (0+ / 0-)

                so diaries in which Major Flaw has commented on are fair game SO LONG AS the response is on point to the diary or comment at hand?

                Because when I commented in diaries in which Major Flaw had appeared in, major flaw's sidekick complained to the administration.

                I'm asking for clarification of the rules so that this is on record so that I and others can fully understand this. Please explain this to me so I can be guided.

                I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:15:29 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It's not that hard. (5+ / 0-)

                  You can comment on the substance. You cannot reply to MajorFlaw saying, for instance, that he won't rec a comment that calls Sarah Palin a bitch with a long comment accusing him of being a troll and encouraging other people to pile on. That is disruptive to the site.

                  Disagreeing politely -- or even combatively but with substance -- with a specific thing someone says is fine. Following them around the site accusing them of trolling without regard to the substance of what they're saying is not ok.

                  MajorFlaw should be very careful -- more careful than he was today -- that if he is going to disagree with you, it should be on content and argument rather than personal dislike or broad characterization of you as an individual. But you need to refrain from so relentlessly personalizing your disagreements.

                  •  that's a fair response (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    raboof, kestrel9000, anathema

                    and again I would urge that if there is something you want to speak to me about, please email me.  I gave Barb my email and you are free to contact me at any time.

                    None of us are perfect and I certainly am far from perfect.  If you go back through hundreds of comments you will know that "big dave" was designed to incite and that I had in the past asked on multiple occasions NOT to be referred as such. (Besides I really want to lose 50 pounds by the end of January and I've still got 38 to go)

                    Perhaps being aware now (I understand you had no reason to be aware of this beforehand) of this history will shed some light on the matter.

                    What is a shame is that this diary, which I actually had begun its initial draft almost a month ago, and spent quality time drafting, got sidetracked b/c there are some great issues to discuss.

                    Regarding MajorFlaw, I've expressed my opinion on him before and although I've never posted a comment about him on another site, I would urge you to read around the Internet to find out the damage that is being done.

                    I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                    by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:44:57 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  That's pretty funny (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    raboof, kestrel9000

                    since much of MajorFlaw's 'work' at this site has been to accuse others of being a 'troll' and then encouraging people to pile on.

                    And yet I don't remember the admins stepping in for those occurrences.

                    What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?

                    Or are there separate sets of rules for different people here?

                    •  Bingo! n/t (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      kestrel9000

                      Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                      by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:06:46 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  We need to find out (0+ / 0-)

                      Because I'm out of here if there is and I will be very public about it since I have plenty of media contacts.

                      I hope it doesn't come to this.

                      I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                      by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:08:47 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I doubt you'll get an honest answer (0+ / 0-)

                        The double standard is obvious.  You are far from the only person who has complained and yet nothing has ever been done.

                        •  For example (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          kestrel9000

                          it appears your ratings ability was just taken away for having the audacity to question this blatant hypocrisy.  But Majorflaw's seems to still be intact, even after harrassing you for months.

                          Why do you think that is?

                          •  My, my. (0+ / 0-)

                            Docudharma is looking better and better by the minute.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:27:59 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yep (0+ / 0-)

                            I asked for them back and explained each of my HRs to an administrator.  if they are not restored by the end of tomorrow I will never post a diary here again.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:34:38 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Also this (0+ / 0-)

                            by taking action against me and others, somebody took a side.

                            Now I'm trying to privately resolve this.

                            Somebody in administration is endorsing flaw's behavior and that person needs to be canned by Markos.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:36:42 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  They need to sort this out (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            raboof

                            It's clear there's some subgroup among the admins who keep trying to manipulate the playing field on their own biased and subjective values. I actually had no idea I'd been "repeatedly banned and reinstated".

                            There's obviously someone on the admin staff who understands our point of view if that's what's been happening. I'm counting on that person or people to do the right thing, and this site has two weeks to restore my ratings status or I too am gone.

                            Putting up with the misbehavior of a village idiot shouldn't be a condition of having to be part of any community. We have to do enough of that in real life with this administration.

                            Either the double standard goes, or I go.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:47:53 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I insist that the administrator involved (0+ / 0-)

                            no longer be allowed to speak for the site.

                            This has now happened on multiple occasions.

                            In fairness to Markos and other administrators, they should be given the opportunity to fix the situation and gather all the facts.  If nothing is done then, we have a problem.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:52:57 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That's why I give them two weeks (0+ / 0-)

                            Plenty of time for all parties to investigate and discuss.

                            I've been a system administrator since 1986. Additionally I served informally as an IRC channel moderator for over 10 years. I am neither immature nor irresponsible. I've held absolute power over THOUSANDS of people throughout the course of my life, and I know how to handle situations like this fairly.

                            If these site admins don't, it's time for a new primary political blog location for little Eileens. Absolutely nothing they've got going on here makes it worth putting up with such an obvious double standard in play.

                            Markos should be embarrassed. Really. This represents an incredible amount of hypocrisy.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:14:43 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Unless the administrator who took sides (0+ / 0-)

                            is reprimanded or at least advised of his or her errors and the one sided actions reversed, I'm out of here at the end of the month and my diaries will no longer be posted here.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:22:27 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I want to know who they are (0+ / 0-)

                            The whole "Star Chamber" thing is another aspect of this which is really really uncool.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:32:45 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I want to give all benefit of the doubt (0+ / 0-)

                            as far as i know it is only 1 person who has done this.

                            The thing is I've always believed that if an adm. asks you to remove an HR, that I do so precisely for this reason.  

                            But somebody overstepping a line big time and unless it's rectified, I and the business I generate for this site are not coming back.

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:40:51 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Moreover (0+ / 0-)

                            The sad part is everybody loses and that this is avoidable. (and still is)

                            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:42:24 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Which is why I suspect (0+ / 0-)

                            a hidden agenda here on behalf of both the known and unknown quantities of that equation.

                            This is classic cointelpro behavior. Divide the community, and conquer. If the site countenances such behavior, I really have no choice but to conclude that the hidden agenda belongs to them - and that something about it was triggered by every diary Major Malfunction leaves his stinking turds in.

                            Now, I know that on my part, my background in a classified military environment combined with a number of obsessive and abusive exes with federal contacts is why the harassment of myself started on this site the moment I arrived. They've been doing it since 1993 and I certainly know what it looks like by now. But that doesn't necessarily explain their other target choices.

                            I don't even have to be a member of the site to finish connecting those dots since the activity is a matter of public record, but I would have to be annoyed enough to do it.

                            Let's see how the admins handle this. First.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 02:07:20 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Think about this. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            vcmvo2, bottles

                            At least 4 admins have commented in this thread. If someone was freelancing here, don't you think they'd already be in trouble?

                          •  Does the Kos administration (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            vox humana

                            support MajorFlaw's behavior?

                            I ask you and the other admins to carefully review all interactions he has had with davefromqueens and Randgrithr, and then perhaps you might want to review his interactions with other users on this site.

                          •  Nope. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            raboof

                            A clique is a clique. I don't care how many of you are giving Majorflaw a pass on his behavior while only calling that of his critics into question. It's still a double standard, and it's still wrong.

                            I have no idea why that asshat is your pet village idiot, but I don't have to put up with it, and I won't. If that means I leave this site, that's your loss and your problem.

                            I've been root/admin on far more important sites than a political blog and handled it more professionally and impartially. Whether it's one or all four of you who are looking the other way while Majorflaw runs all over the site like a rabid dog, you are a rank embarrassment to a site that pretends to work for democracy and fairness in government.

                            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

                            by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 02:17:31 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  For UID 181254, you (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      vcmvo2, MajorFlaw, bottles

                      have a pretty well-developed sense of MajorFlaw's history here.  Funny, that.

                  •  Let me ask the question (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kestrel9000

                    You will note that there were criticisms on substance to some of what I wrote.  

                    Flaw had no substantive criticism.  His intent was clear to disrupt and incite.

                    It's on lines 2 and 3 of the FAQs as to what a troll is.  

                    So who in administration decided to punish flaw's critics and not punish flaw?  Note, this has happened several times now.  I'm hoping this is the last time.

                    I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                    by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:56:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  There is that, yes nt (0+ / 0-)

                John McCain is a dishonorable, lying shitbag who is unfit to be President. Of ANYTHING.

                by kestrel9000 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:43:08 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Posting diaries is a requirement for worthiness? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MajorFlaw, bottles

              I dunno what's gotten in to you but you sound pretty damned elitist and you're wrong to boot.  Birds of a feather squawk like Heathers.

              "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." John Lennon

              by trashablanca on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:19:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          davefromqueens, Randgrithr

          John McCain is a dishonorable, lying shitbag who is unfit to be President. Of ANYTHING.

          by kestrel9000 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:58:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  you need to get a grip as well (0+ / 0-)

          please refrain from pouring oil on fire.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 11:11:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Somebody in administration is taking sides (0+ / 0-)

            I post here b/c I want to help elect more and better Democrats and I add valuable info along those lines.  

            What has Flaw done other than break the rules of this site and drive thousands away?

            Who in administration is permitting this?

            I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

            by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:40:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  For pity sakes (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              musing85, MajorFlaw, shann, bottles

              If this diary is your idea of how to attract more and better Democrats, you are as self-deluded about the value of your contributions as you are about those of MajorFlaw and your hyperbole about his/her driving away thousands.

              Those in admin are taking the side of the
              community, Markos, and the FAQ.

              It is pretty clear that MajorFlaw has been targeted and the game plan is well known.  Trolls nearly always brag about their intents.

              After a bombastic diary like this one, your poor me is really a joke.

              You hiderated MajorFlaw into hidden comments, and then whine when the abuse of the ratings system is noticed by TUs and admins.

              Any corrective action was long overdue.

              PaintyKat

              WWYTR? Voting, contributing, supporting, and electing Democrats

              by PaintyKat on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 11:30:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  did you even read the diary (0+ / 0-)

                Do you know any of the history.

                And you are now calling me the troll?

                Yes I'll let my record speak for itself for you have no clue what I do behind the scenes and have done behind the scenes to help Democrats.  Absolutely NONE.

                there are people who came here to contribute to help Democrats and there are those who get jealous when others effectively do that and there are just those here for many other reasons.

                You can decide for yourself what category, if any, you choose to put yourself in.

                As for "correction" Majorflaw's longtime sidekick and admitted troll and Republican BraveheartDc was banned from this site and unlike Rand (who is to my left) he's a republican.  Majorflaw owns BraveheartDC's comments, owns them.

                I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                by davefromqueens on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:15:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  677 Diaries (0+ / 0-)

                  I've found 677 diaries that I've written at this site.

                  Feel free to share with me some of your views on issues.

                  I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                  by davefromqueens on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 12:27:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  I also see you have quite the history (0+ / 0-)

                http://www.dailykos.com/...

                This is another example of what many have talked about and you appear frequently in here.  

                I find that the person who says "tred for ad hominen attack" gets TRed but those who made attacks don't.

                I'll have to bookmark this.

                I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                by davefromqueens on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:35:29 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  amazing, I'll ask - what have you done??? (0+ / 0-)

                You showed up here more than 24 hours after the diary was written.

                There were no comments in hidden comments.

                Who emailed you to come here?

                Also, this comment got 4 recs.

                How did these people know this comment was here when the diary is now 2 days old?

                Again I have 678 diaries (most of substance, a few admittedly sucked), over 11,000 comments, most of them productive.

                I've volunteered for multiple Democratic politicians, donated money to progressive causes, put my ass on the front lines to help like minded people such as yourself (politically anyway), exposed some actual and original stories that are now being used to increased effectiveness. (Ex - McCain's townhalls as a farce), spent 8 years putting together a political manifesto with hundreds of ideas for reforms, have spent countless hours on the side doing things that you saw or read about in the media that you have NO idea my fingerprints are on, and although my street theater stunts may be considered excessive at times, the bottom line is that my approach works most (yes not all) of the time for it directly exposes right wing bullshit.

                That is what I have done.  I'll put that record against all 20 or so COMBINED of the people here who see fit, in my opinion, to do exactly what I have stated their intent is to do.

                Again, I will ask, How does what you are doing here help elect more and better Democrats?

                If your goal is to help elect more and better Democrats, I would suggest to you that you are doing precisely the opposite.

                I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                by davefromqueens on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 08:33:44 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  clarification please: (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            musing85, MajorFlaw, trashablanca, shann

            I share MajorFlaw's concerns about this stupid-ass diary, as someone who moved to Long Island with my family in 1953.

            By saying,

            please refrain from pouring oil on fire

            are you saying that you saw something about MajorFlaw's initial comment, the one you responded to here, was somehow not a legitimate response to this diary?

            Or are you saying that the admins are telling MajorFlaw that he's not allowed to comment in certain diaries?

            Thanks in advance for the answer.

            •  take the comment at face value (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bottles

              Or are you saying that the admins are telling MajorFlaw that he's not allowed to comment in certain diaries?

              No. There are no such restrictions about who's "allowed" to comment in a given diary. Diary authors cannot determine who is permitted to visit. However, someone known to be hostile should exercise some restraint when visiting. anyone could guess what happens next.

              When I see escalating hostility, I and any other mod reserve the right to intervene. And as I said here, it's likely we will arrive in the middle, not at the "three months ago" beginning.

              That implies no approval of either this diary, or the comment, but mods are not censors.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 04:07:19 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hates to butt in here but (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                PaintyKat, trashablanca, shann, bottles

                it appears that your colleague nailed it above:

                The problem here was HR abuse

                And the ratings abuse was entirely one-sided.  I posted my first comment here and walked away.  Within ten minutes that comment had been hidden.  

                What happened in this thread was nothing new.  I entered a dave or Randy diary with legitimate criticism and was met with verbal abuse and ratings abuse.  The verbal abuse is expected and could be dealt with by the community were it not for the ratings abuse. If the ratings system is gonna work we've gotta play by a set of common rules.  
                If dave and Randy do not follow through on their threats to leave the site they will have to defend themselves without the use of TRs and that may solve the problem. Should have happened a year ago but here we are now.

            •  yes it is an illegitimate response (0+ / 0-)

              because "bigdave" was a previous nic and is outing.

              Now I have 1 comment hidden at this site.

              What did that comment do?

              It listed 1 of YOUR previous nics.  If I posted your other previous nic my comment would be HRed by your clique.  (And rightfully so)

              So is it your position that MF can out previous users and in one case post the real name of a person to a website but others should be autobanned for this?

              I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

              by davefromqueens on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 06:47:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  there was never a user here called "bigdave," (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                musing85, MajorFlaw, trashablanca

                as a search of the database shows.

                I know of one comment where MajorFlaw, in illustrating a point, linked to a dkos diary, which is still up, where a user voluntarily posted her actual name. Is that what you mean by claiming he posted someone's real name?

                •  linking to someone's real name (0+ / 0-)

                  indeed yes unless the person asks for it.

                  Now here's the problem.

                  Over the last 3 months, traffic at this site has gone down 29% according to today's Alexa ratings.

                  I think a large part of that has to do with the points being raised by me and others in this diary.

                  We should be increasing traffic here.

                  The problem is that your group of people are turning off (whether intentionally or unintentionally) actual democrats (No I'm not talking purity trolls) who make positive contributions, are hear at the site to help elect more and better democrats, and do their darnedest to follow the site rules.  Does this not concern you?  If a diary someone writes on November 1, 2008 exposing something about John McCain or providing a key talking point to help Barack Obama becomes the springboard for the final push before Election Day and that person is one of the several hundred people who got turned off and doesn't print that vital info, will that make you happy?

                  I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                  by davefromqueens on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 08:04:42 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That "real name" reveal (0+ / 0-)

                    was in a diary that was months old and had six comments.

                    It is not hard to come to the conclusion that the only reason the information was republished was because a person was checking all diaries by the user for damaging information.

                    As comments about the user's personal appearance and location were made, in other comments on other diaries, by the same person who accessed and republished the link, it is not hard to come to the conclusion that a stalking was in progress that could involve real world consequences.

                    As I remember, we had very public cases in which a user's personal information was mined and republished. For example: DelawareDem, Armando, and droogie. That those users may have been careless was noted at the time and rightly considered irrelevant.

                    Again, I ask if it is the official policy of the Kos administration to tolerate those who participate in such actions.

                    •  It's a question i would like answered (0+ / 0-)

                      My understanding of the rules is that doing so deliberately is an automatic ban from this site.  It's been brought to their attention as bottles has courteously provided the link.

                      Is the user who did this going to be banned or not?

                      I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                      by davefromqueens on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 09:20:38 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Also this (0+ / 0-)

                      I have definitive proof that someone in this thread was using two names at once for a period of time earlier this year, more specifically the latter part of March.  

                      so I am waiting to know if using two names at once and outing a real person's name gets the autoban or not.

                      If it doesn't, then I will stay here to do what I can to help Obama and our Democrats but will not make a single post or diary beyond Nov. 5.  

                      I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

                      by davefromqueens on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:55:49 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  the only people who have a problem (0+ / 0-)

                    with appropriate responses to abusive users, wherever the abusive user happens to fall on the political spectrum, are other abusive users.

                    If you need any more evidence than is evident in this thread regarding which actions are supported, and which are considered abusive, by the administrators of this private site - then it's clear that your opinions are informed solely by your opinions, and no amount of discussion will help.

  •  I think that part of the deconservatism (4+ / 0-)

    happened when Grumman (defense contractor) was bought by Northrop and moved to Texas sometime in the late 80's, early 90's.  

    Grumman was a huge employer and I think that many people in the defense industry vote Rethug because they know they will make money off of war.

    I grew up with the "Alabama" types in my poor neighborhood.  I don't miss them at all.

  •  Oh, how I miss those (3+ / 0-)

    Levittown "key" house parties....

    McCain/Palin: Lie Traffickers

    by ccmask on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:11:20 AM PDT

  •  What you left out (4+ / 0-)

    is the reason for the concentration of conservatives in the area. It is 100% for military reasons and actually dates back to the turn of the century. Long Island was for decades an extremely important location strategically. When our air power was in it's infancy, this was the only place in the US that one could safely fly from and reach Europe - it's the one part of the US that is closest via air.

    You can learn more about the fundamental reasons for the concentration of conservatism in the area by visiting the Cradle of Aviation Museum.

    I also reject the term "cesspool" because not everyone who was conservative was operating from a place of hatred and greed, although yes there was ignorance and wrongheadedness there. I was raised in one such household - my father was a staunch Republican and a career employee of DoD contractors.

    Most of the people who moved into the Levittowns were returning WWII veterans. I object to all of those people being tarred with the same brush as O'Reilly and Hannity. Frankly, when you get a group of that type of any size, not all of them are going to be that stupid, and it's well known that when it comes to intellect that Hannity and O'Reilly represent the bottom two percent.

    For that matter, I am not sure today that the words "right wing" and "conservative" properly belong in the same sentence. Those who label themselves conservative who are in power now have been anything but conservative when it comes to spending our tax dollars, the precious lives and blood of our fighting men and women, and preserving our democratic values and the rule of law. The problem is right wing EXTREMISM.

    As a person who has had to deal with right wing hatred directly and personally I keep a very watchful eye on what goes on in that regard in my neighborhood. However I have a problem with the idea that a man like my father who I know had nobler goals and never came from a place of hatred when he worked and lived, or the ordinary Joes who came back from the war to start families in comparatively humble Levittowns are dumped into the same extremist bucket as O'Reilly and Hannity.

    All in all, other than that, not a bad diary and reasonably well informed - but by leaving out the piece of the puzzle with the military and Long Island's immense veteran population you leave out a lot of the story, and by lumping everyone who's conservative or comes from that background with the likes of O'Reilly and Hannity you actually play into their hands and perpetuate the myth that they represent a majority on Long Island.

    One of the reasons Veterans for Peace is actively trying to grow it's Long Island chapter is to ensure that those of us who are NOT right wing, NOT hate-based extremists and NOT stupid are truly represented. There is a misconception out there that's been fostered by spin-based reporting that every vet on Long Island supports Bush and the war. Absolutely not true, and VFPLI intends to debunk that myth as soon as humanly possible.

    Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

    by Randgrithr on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:14:20 AM PDT

  •  Wantagh native here. (3+ / 0-)

    The change that I have seen (and this is purely subjective, as I am relying on experience with my own family and friends there) is that most of the folks who have become more progressive have done so through the issue of labor.  When their jobs are being effected, all of a sudden it becomes personal and they see the light.  

    Then you have a case like my dad, who was a business owner and Republican committeeman when we moved to LI from Bayside, lost his business a few years later due to medical issues and then got a union job with the Daily News.  He sure was glad to have the wages & benefits guaranteed to him by the union - but now that he's retired, he watches Bill O'Reilly EVERY DAY (my poor mother!) He's very angry at...well, anyone BO tells him he should be angry at, so that should give you a sense of where he's at politically these days.  I do not even pretend to understand his views.

    I would say that of my family and friends still on Long Island, it's pretty evenly split which way they roll politically these days.

    Conquer the liar with truth. -- The Dhammapada

    by deliciae on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:18:13 AM PDT

  •  N. Massapequa here, reporting for duty. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davefromqueens, Newzie

    A lot of what dave says brings back my recollections of growing up Long Island. We were Jewish dems in a sea of Republicans - quite a lonely place to be, on both counts. I felt smothered by the whiteness and narrow mindedness of my community, and left at 17 for college. I never spent more than a few weeks there after that. To give you an idea of how we felt, when our mother died, leaving us a large home with only $300 left to pay on a 30 yr mortgage at 1954 rates, my sister and I took exactly one NY minute to decide to sell it. Neither of us could picture ourselves living there, even with free housing.

    I think, though, that the politics have changed somewhat because of the cost of living in Manhattan - folks move out further and further to find some semblance of affordable housing and decent schools. But so many school districts still have their budgets voted down yearly because of the tax-phobic, responsibility-denying heritage of the conservatives.

    " 'Be yourself' is sometimes the worst advice you can give someone." Groucho

    by beegee kochav on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:42:19 AM PDT

    •  Oh I know (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Newzie, Randgrithr

      And indeed I am overgeneralizing but the overgeneralizing does give people a feel for this place.  I lived it as have countless others.

      Simultaneously, Long island has created thousands of wonderful people who really had to be strong internally to rise above some of what was around us.

      I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

      by davefromqueens on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 07:44:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  not quite Long Island (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davefromqueens, Newzie, Randgrithr

    Very interesting look at Long Island/Politics & culture.

    I grew up spitting distance from LI in Bayside, Queens.  It was pretty idylic overall. Not a lot of racism and pretty liberal. Imagine the movie "Dazed and Confused" with Irish, Italian & Jewish characters.

    I remember never quite understanding why in a sea of the heavily democratic NY area, the republican party had a total lock on on LI politics for decades.
    This article confirms the reality of LI then.

    The only time I ventured to LI was for Jones Beach
    and the music clubs. Anyone remember Spize, Spit, Malibu, Uncle Sams & My father's place?

  •  Funny, but not very true (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MajorFlaw, davefromqueens, Newzie

    You could have written the exact same thing about Staten Island or Queens and been about as accurate.

    Yes, Long Island was governed by a Republican machine for awhile, but as Republicans go nationally, they were some of the more liberal Republicans in the country. Now, being Republicans, they were still a rather disgusting breed, and thus some of this does ring true. But anyone who really thinks it was ever amongst the most conservative places in America needs to get out and see some of the rest of the country, especially if you are making it about racism. Heck, racism is at least as bad in Queens.

    As for white flight causing people to move out to the suburbs, there was some of that, but there was also a lot of people seeking lower taxes, larger lots, quieter less croweded communities, and better schools.

    There was racism, with very segregated communities, but where I grew up, it wasn't that often explicit, and most people disapproved of it whenever it was articulated. Yet, there was still a good deal of fear and mistrust based on race. And, you certainly did run into individuals who were virulently racist.

    As for LI Republican politicians, they tended to be more socially liberal than most parts of the nation. You wouldn't have gotten far trying to ban abortion on LI, for example, and while there were certainly some folks motivated by racism, any truly overt appeals based on this would have sunk any public figure.

    Republicans most definately made indirect appeals though, managing to tie race to being "tough on crime", and to associate it with "welfare", but they also ran an awful lot on low taxes and small government.

    When Republicans, through corruption, managed to drive Nassau County into bankrupcy, they lost their credibility on budget issues, and thus lost their majority. I doj't know that they ever really did have a majority on these other issues.

    The typical Long Island town where I grew up had a local delicatessen, a local pizzaria, a bagel shop, a barber, a butcher, 3 churches, and half a dozen bars. If you were single, it was probably a lot more interesting to live in NYC, most of the folks on LI were families. and there are a lot of different ethnic enclaves, some neighborhoods or more Italian, or Irish, one small village will have a large Jewish population, another will be Greek, or German, etc. And there were definate economic defferences between neighborhoods, from some of the ritzier areas on the North Shore, where you did find some of the country club Republican types, to the Amy Fisher and Joey Buttafuoco types on the South Shore.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site