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There's been a slew of diaries on this issue.  So why am I bothering to write another one?  Because I have read many and have decided that I do have something to bring to the dialog.

Namely that, angry young men don't want a dialog.  And what we have in the middle-East is a slew of angry young men with nowhere for their ambitions and dreams to go.

It is a psychological fact that violence, both interpersonal and international is generally done by angry young men.  Older people who should know better, exploit the natural irritability of young men and stir them to violence.  I blame the leadership, for providing no leadership other than telling angry young men to, HAVE AT IT!

Two recent diaries that I found compelling have addressed the continuing phenomena and drama of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

A long-winded and inciteful diary by David Mizner:  http://www.dailykos.com/...

And a short and insightful diary by Markos: http://www.dailykos.com/...

There are two simple truths.  1. All parties to the conflict have to want peace.  2. Angry young men with no hope, no alternatives, no way to realize their ambitions and dreams, will resort to violence.

I strongly disagree with David Mizner's comment: "In any case, my main point is that terrorism by the occupied doesn't justify occupation."

The terrorism demands that someone intervene to stop the violence.  The question is WHO should intervene and pull the parties in dispute apart to cool them off and begin a dialog.

I nominate Barack Obama.

Originally posted to Aidos on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 09:43 AM PST.

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Barack Obama should intervene:

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71%20 votes

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tis a gift to be simple... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Arken, ibonewits, browneyes

    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

    by Aidos on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 09:44:07 AM PST

  •  I agree with you until the end. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lepanto, browneyes

    Every time the U.S. has tried to intervene, we have failed and things often get worse. I think it's time the U.S. got away from the entire situation.

    •  This is the dawning of the Age of Obama. n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

      by Aidos on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 09:52:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Dude, that's what Bush/Cheney have done. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mijita

      And look where that's gotten us!

      Bush's BFF Condoleeza has articulated a policy of complete "hands-off" permission for Israel to do as she pleases, while demanding immediate cessation of Palestinian violence.

      And this strategy worked out so very well during Israel's invasion of South Lebanon, didn't it?

    •  Me too (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Arken, mayim

      Read kos's post that you referred to:

      It's clear that in the Middle East, no one is sick of the fighting. They have centuries of grudges to resolve, and will continue fighting until they can get over them. And considering that they obviously have no interest in "getting over them", we're stuck with a war that will not end in any forseable future. It doesn't matter what we bloggers say. It doesn't matter what the President of the United States says. Or the United Nations. Or the usual bloviating gasbag pundits.

      When two sides are this dead-set on killing each other, very little can get in the way.

      "I was actually born on Krypton and sent here by my father Jor-El to save the Planet Earth."

      by lesliet on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 10:02:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed. I have re-iterated that people have to (0+ / 0-)

        WANT it to end.  Why are we sucked into this?  Why do we take sides?

        "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

        by Aidos on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 10:07:19 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  What about the angry young men in Egypt... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    browneyes

    ... and Sudan and Jordan and...

    One of the biggest problems of the left, and certainly a major problem here in DKos, is the unspoken assumption that this is an "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict.  In fact, this same range of thugs is trouble throughout the middle east.  If anything, Israel is handling them better than most.  See current problems with the Civil War in Sudan and how Mubarak is handling their criminals, etc.

    "What doesn't have credibility today is the truth." -- Bill Moyers, The Daily Show 6/22/05

    by Baron Dave on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 09:50:10 AM PST

    •  Agreed. All angry young dudes. Too bad we can't (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      browneyes

      flood their society with drugs and render their young men STONERS in the California-sense of the word.  LOL.  Dang that Islam!  They sell the poppy juice to us but don't touch it themselves!

      "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

      by Aidos on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 09:55:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz (0+ / 0-)

    hardly young men.  Provably able to wreak more harm than "the angry young men" of which you speak, because these dispassionate old men have the power of the state to do so.

    If the ills of the world could be only be blamed on such a small segment of our world population, they would be easier to isolate and fix.  Alas, I don't think 'tis true.

    "Out of Many, One." This is the great promise of our nation.

    by Uncle Moji on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 09:52:30 AM PST

    •  The OLD GUYS egg this one. Reread my short diary. (0+ / 0-)

      "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

      by Aidos on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 09:57:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I did read your short diary, thanks (0+ / 0-)

        It is a psychological fact that violence, both interpersonal and international is generally done by angry young men.

        I strongly disagree with David Mizner's comment: "In any case, my main point is that terrorism by the occupied doesn't justify occupation."

        The terrorism demands that someone intervene to stop the violence.  The question is WHO should intervene and pull the parties in dispute apart to cool them off and begin a dialog.

        You seem to suggest that the root problem here is acute "terrorism" carried out by "angry young men" at the behest of those older, versus chronic "occupation" implemented by young men (soldiers) at the behest of those older. I don't think "anger" is the problem, per se, so your "psychological fact" about who acts violently based on anger seems to miss the point that worst of the world's greatest numerical violence is done dispassionately at the direction of the powerful and those of my age.

        But perhaps its just because I agree with Mizner here (whom I often find I don't agree with).  We have to stop competing for whom is more to blame as a way to absolve the other.  Both are wrong, both are right, both need to stop terrorizing each other.

        "Out of Many, One." This is the great promise of our nation.

        by Uncle Moji on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 10:17:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, (0+ / 0-)

          as you said, "Both are wrong, both are right, both need to stop terrorizing each other."

          And you will be the good Uncle to step in and put these children in the corner to cool ooff?

          "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

          by Aidos on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 12:15:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Nice diary. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Arken, browneyes

    I'll only add, in the spirit of fairness, that not all the angry young men are young.  Or men.

    John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

    by LarryInNYC on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 09:53:10 AM PST

  •  Extremes on both sides (4+ / 0-)

    I am very pro-Palestinian people and very anti-Hamas.  I also believe that most Israelis want peace with the Palestinians and for them to have a homeland.  I also believe that there are some that just want the Palestinians to be eliminated.

    And let's not forget that there are others in the Arab world and elsewhere that want Israel wiped off the map.

    It's not just the young men, but the extremes that are the root cause of this conflict.  What do we do about them?  That's the trillion dollar question.

    Can someone please explain to me how there can be a "moderate" position on equality??

    by browneyes on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 09:54:59 AM PST

    •  Laws and the means to enforce laws. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      browneyes
      1. Pull the aggrieved parties apart.
      1. Cool down.
      1. Dialog and come up with something like 'Robert's Rules of Order.'
      1. Enforce those rules/laws.

      "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

      by Aidos on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 10:00:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think it's foolish to think (3+ / 0-)

    that Obama will come up with some kind of magic solution to this problem and peace will suddenly break out across the Middle East.

  •  I/P feels like Iran's work (0+ / 0-)

    It's time for the Third Estate to sick the fish mongers on em...

    by JerichoJ8 on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 09:56:25 AM PST

  •  Yep. It's simple demographics. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ibonewits, Aidos

    There is plenty of convincing evidence that the brutal urban crime epidemic in America circa 1980's had a lot to do with millions of unemployed angry young urban men with nothing to do. And that the decline in crime rates during the 1990's likely had a lot more to do with rising employment and a relative deficit in the young age cohort due to abortion than any notional success from aggressive police work. (Incidentally, that's also why U.S. urban crime rates are on their way back up, in a big way.)

    Likewise, hundreds of thousands of angry young Palestinian males have spent their entire lives since birth in squalid refugee camps under constant Israeli surveillance and intermittent bombardment. They have absolutely no hope of gainful employment, no expectation of a future that's any better. And they marinate in a toxic stew of Islamic fundamentalism and righteous outrage. Until these young men have some kind of hope for something better, the violence will never end.

    And Israel's current rain of bombs onto Gaza won't change this dynamic; it merely reinforces it.

  •  I have to leave. I will return, later to answer (0+ / 0-)

    any posts I can answer.

    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

    by Aidos on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 10:08:04 AM PST

  •  Revolutions and insurrections... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ibonewits

    ...do not grow spontaneously out of the disenfranchised mass of "angry young men".  They come from the disenfranchised elite that use the "angry young men" to their ends.

    The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. J. Robert Oppenheimer {-8.25 / -5.64}

    by carver on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 10:26:21 AM PST

  •  I've been pummeled for acknowledging this truth (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ibonewits

    Angry young men with no hope, no alternatives, no way to realize their ambitions and dreams, will resort to violence.

  •  Modest Proposal: Let Turkey babysit Gaza (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ibonewits, Aidos

    I think that Gaza, along with Israel, was part of the Ottoman Empire.

    Israel gets along pretty well with Turkey.

    Maybe, to the extent that Gaza is in chaos and can't run itself very well, even when Israel isn't being obnoxious and overbearing toward it, Gaza really needs a babysitter at this point.

    If that's the case, maybe Gazans would be more comfortable if the babysitter were Turkey -- which is fairly distant, pretty neutral, and sort of Muslim in an officially secular way -- than if the babysitter were Israel or the Fatah-run West Bank.

    Maybe the world could simply make that the stick to use to get Israel, Gaza and the West Bank to behave. International nanny forces could tell all three entities, "You must behave yourselves and play nicely, or we will give all of you to Turkey."

    Maybe if Turkey got to thump its chest and growl at Israel, Gaza and the West Bank more often, it would relax and mellow out about the Armenians and the Kurds.

    Then, if they're REALLY good, we could promise to take all of those entities to the Disney Store to buy a toy . . . Oh, wait, that's my desperation disciplinary strategy for my child. But I think the key to dealing with this whole mess might be finding a really, really, good, tough nanny.

    •  I/P the Chuckie-dolls of the conflict, kids with (0+ / 0-)

      dangerous projectiles.

      "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

      by Aidos on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 12:21:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I still like my GameBoy (now, I guess, Wii) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aidos

        strategy.

        My theory is that the best way to ease a bitter conflict is to flood the opponents with candy, video games and stuffed animals.

        If only Israel had carpeted Gaza with halal gourmet food, Disney toys and Apple laptop computers, maybe the people in Gaza would have been more enthusiastic about peace talks.

        It really is mystifying to think that all of these people who have much better jobs than I do, make much more money, and supposedly have much better people skills think that you can achieve peace by starving and humiliating the people on the other side.

  •  Why not split the difference (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ibonewits, Aidos

    Obama probably should intervene pre-inauguration since the current crop of jokers seem to have no intention of doing anything constructive.  At the same time, certain realities(e.g. "He Ain't Preznit Yet") prevent him from having any standing to do anything about this until after the 20th.

    However, a preliminary ruling of "I don't care who started it, both of you stop it right now" even on the level of a personal opinion would be a good start.

    "What if everybody thought like you?" "Then I'd be a damn fool to think otherwise."-- Catch 22

    by Johnny Q on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 11:00:51 AM PST

  •  proxy conflicts have no natural ends (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marina, ibonewits, Aidos

    What we are looking at is a proxy conflict. Israel is America's proxy for dominance and destablization in the region. Hamas is Iran's proxy. Before it was Iran's proxy, Hamax was actually bolstered by the US as well, as a counterpoint to the socialist PLO during the happy days of the Cold War when Islamism was seen by the US as an ally against the godless communists. The conflict is being waged by young men on the behalf of old men far removed, and there is nothing they can do, unless either their patrons allow them to make peace or they cut the strings and decide to go it alone, neither of which is likely. It is very easy to blame irrational extremists, but what we are seeing is a highly rational regional power struggle playing itself out at the cost of the locals.

    Law is a light which in different countries attracts to it different species of blind insects. Nietzsche

    by Marcion on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 11:01:11 AM PST

  •  I'm back, and the President-elect says NO, one (0+ / 0-)

    President at a time.  

    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

    by Aidos on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 12:23:29 PM PST

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